₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
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I don't agree with him saying that atheists make such a claim. Indeed I specifically said he is misrepresenting you a bit.

You will see that in the post I agreed to, he was not talking about atheists claiming that. He was addressing atheists saying the cause is unknown and concluded that saying a thing is unknown is different from saying it doesn't exist. That's what I agreed with.

Nobidy says because certain things are unknown therefore a god doesn’t exist. There are several other reasons to say the god does exist.

FxMasterz:
You got it bro!

Infact, it is still within logical reasoning frameworks to assume that the universe itself may be God. We have only seen a little within the universe. No one has seen the whole universe let alone seeing the outside of it.

We cannot truly know what the universe is until we can observe it from the outside of the universe itself. What if this universe itself is a huge living being that has a different build from us, and the planets, and all heavenly bodies are parts of what keeps it alive?

All descriptions of the universe are based on what we see on its inside from its inside. Imagine the microbes inside your gut describing you on the basis of what they see in your stomach? Atheists just need to think harder and stop being myopic. I hope lordreed and jaephoenix in particular are reading.

If the universe is a “being,” then we would see:

- Stars/galaxies as cells?
- Black holes as… pores?
- Humans as microbes in its gut?

No can ever tell.

LoLz. You people and mental gymnastics never cease to amaze. How do you go from the universe is god to the universe sent its son to die for sins? Are you even listen to your own jibber jabber? Bwahahahahahaha!

FxMasterz:
This is babyish talk. By saying investigation won't make it appear even sounds much more incoherent. Because investigation doesn't make anything appear. It reveals what's already there.

And as I said earlier, your capacity to perceive is in itself a limit on your investigation. There are frequencies you cannot perceive and therefore cannot investigate. In fact, a dog and an elephant have better chances than you a human. If you can still argue this, it means you're closed to anything logical, you just want to keep on believing what you believe.

See, as it stands, heaven could be within our universe billions or even trillions of light years away. And also, both God and heaven could also be around us in a frequency we can never naturally perceive. I also believe that there are frequencies in which even our solid state here cannot be perceived.

Know your limitations and stop pretending you know everything and can access everything.

What I know is that Prayer as a spiritual exercise, when practiced consistently can make you perceive things from a different frequency that others cannot perceive.

You the one spewing babyish jibber jabber. Because we can't natural perceive beyond certain electromagnetic frequencies doesn’t mean they are inscrutable to us. We make instruments for that purpose so to act like this some kind of point is balderdash.

The history of investigation has never revealed any god behind any phenomena so no reason to believe this will be different. It has nothing to do with knowing everything.

If your god is operating on an electromagnetic frequency tell us what the frequency is and if you don't know then stop using your ignorance as a cover for your beliefs.

DeepSight:
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Causality does not imply any willfulness. Causality is causality. An impersonal force can be a cause.

I am refering to the theistic mental gymnastics.

DeepSight:
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Agreed, and what many atheist scientists have tried to use to wriggle out of causality is -

1. Virtual particles in a quantum vacuum - which has been thoroughly debunked as a quantum vacuum is not nothing and has been shown to contain gaseous pressure.

2. The argument that causality breaks down when we are looking back at the early universe - unproven also and even illogical.

I am not sure why you are agreeing with him saying atheists say nothing caused the big bang. Also because of the currently inscrutable nature of beyond the earliest moments of the big bang no candidate explanations as of yet can fit properly since we can't even find the language to describe it yet. The matter is not concluded by any stretch of the imagination.

FxMasterz:
Where that gets interesting is that if it's unknown, how did it translate to It doesn't exist.

If you see it as something deserving further investigation, then you're agnostic. Not an atheist.

Because the proposed supernatural entity aka god is incoherent and does not fit any aspect of reality. When something doesn't exist definitions or word play will not make it gain existence.

Investigation won't make your god appear just like Investigation into any of the other natural phenomena we previously had no knowledge of did not cause any god to be evident. So I have no good reason to believe this will be any different.

DeepSight:
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Loaded. Lots of sound points. Particularly how little our senses can sense. And our science being tied to what we can sense either directly or indirectly must also be greatly limited.

Nevertheless let me caution that you may have misrepresented LordReed and Japhoenix a bit.

Where I feel you are right again is the idea of causation, sadly many still try to deny it, saying that such breaks down at certain levels of physics - which is not proven at all.

The problem with using causation is like as you can see this mental gymnastic where it is conflated with willful action. Most scientists when using the word would be looking at a chain of natural events not a willful action and the problem with looking back beyond the big bang is they no longer have the language to describe that natural chain. A mental gymnast comes along and says that lack of language means a supernatural entity is behind that lack. Meanwhile I just say unknown.

FxMasterz:
You're correct but the situation is not just 'likely', it's the absolute truth.

Most of what exists is entirely invisible to us. Humans only see light between 430-790THz and hear sounds between 20Hz-20KHz.

This is a popular science fact meant to highlight the limitations of human senses, emphasizing how much of reality we miss.

Vision (light) :
Human eyes detect only a tiny sliver of the electromagnetic spectrum called visible light.

This corresponds to wavelengths roughly 380–750 nanometers (nm), which translates to frequencies of about 400–790 THz (terahertz, or trillion hertz).

- Red light: lower end, around 430 THz.
- Violet light: higher end, around 790 THz.

The numbers (430–790 THz) are a common scientific approximation.

Everything else—infrared (heat), ultraviolet, X-rays, radio waves, microwaves, gamma rays—is invisible to us without tools like cameras, telescopes, or detectors. And these instruments still remain limited in capabilities. Visible light is less than 0.005% of the full electromagnetic spectrum, so most electromagnetic radiation (and much of what it reveals about the universe) is invisible.

Hearing (sound) .:
Humans typically hear sounds with frequencies from 20 Hz (very low bass) to 20,000 Hz (20 kHz, high-pitched).

"20Hz-20KHz," is the standard adult range (though it narrows with age, especially above 15–17 kHz).

Sounds below 20 Hz (infrasound) or above 20 kHz (ultrasound) exist but are inaudible to us—animals like elephants (infrasound) or bats/dogs (ultrasound) can detect them. And you can be rest assured there are other unnamed sound frequencies nothing in the world has ever detected.

The Broader Point
Philosophically/scientifically: our senses evolved for survival, not to perceive "everything." Vast parts of reality—dark matter/energy (95% of the universe), non-visible radiation, inaudible vibrations—are "invisible" or imperceptible. We rely on science and technology to uncover an infinitesimally small percentage of them. Even what we know if the universe today as vast as that knowledge is, is still approximately 0% of the entire universe.

So, how can any same man confidently say "There's no God" as though he has seen, heard and known everything there is. It is absolute foolishness.

I have come to a point of realization that even the so called "Spirit realm" is simply a frequency that exists beyond the bondaries of our natural perception. Nobody sees everything that's around him at any given time. Infact, the unseen is infinitely more than the seen.

An atheist is like a Peck of chickens hatched and grown in a closed and conditioned cage with just a hole somewhere on the cage for passing food and water. It will be foolish for those chickens to arise one day, and say there's no human just because they've never seen or perceived anything beyond the walls of their cage. And when asked how the food from that hole happens, they answer it happens from nothing or unknown (like what I have seen lordreed and jaephoenix claim on this thread). The truth is that the food comes from something unknown indeed to the chickens but claiming there's no entity behind the food is absolute foolishness.

Both claims of the world coming from nothing and/or unknown leading to a conclusion that there's no God just make me chuckle. They don't sound intelligent to me.

Disinfectant123 is asking for evidence that the God exists without seeing that there's no evidence He doesn't.

If atheists have any shame, Cycleoftheworld has dissipated virtually all the arguments atheists hold onto on this thread, but since Atheism itself is some form of 'religion', atheists must defend themselves even with lies, denials and misinformation.

What we know as humans even with our scientific advancements is still nothingness compared to what there is. Wait until you know everything at least, before you say in absolutes that there's no God. And you guys should stop being illogical and contradictory because claiming there's no God is the same as claiming there's no cause. And science has established that effects are always causative. All the effects we see in the universe were therefore caused.Whatever caused them, be it human or things, or places or whatever, whether imaginable or unimaginable is what we call God. A reasonable human would go on a quest for find what it is rather that talk in absolutes about God not existing. Majority of the scientists in the world actually believe in the existence of God. Only a very small percentage are atheists.

We humans don't know anything about the universe yet. We're still exploring. We don't even know anything about our world yet. We have very little knowledge of it because we're limited in sight and in hearing. Wise men would prepare for evehtualities in such situations as ours. Walking arrogantly with blind confidence is foolhardy.

I am not sure how you are able to conflate or equate unknown with nothing. When we say unknown it means the knowledge of that thing is deficient or not in the current body of knowledge and so deserves some more investigation. Anyone who reads that and thinks these guys are saying nothing did it must be some kind of supreme mental gymnast.

Explore2xmore:
Perhaps the op omitted saying Islam as completed under prophet Muhammad pbuh.
However specific to your question is understanding the meaning of being Muslim.

Ahhh, then we can say that atheism predates all religion once we rejig the meaning of what an atheist is. Playing word definition games can bite both ways.

bakreee:
Whoever seeks guidance outside the true explanatory-statement of the Quran, by the Quran itself, Allah will lead him astray. For what is there after the truth except misguidance? So in what narration after Allah and His messages will they believe? Verily, the Day of manifest conquest has come, so woe on that Day to the deniers..


https://nasser-alyamani.org/showthread.php?p=490108

.

The god did nothing to actually spread this so called truth beyond the shores of Arabia. Why? Because there is no god behind this so called truth.

iwaeda:
https://dailypost.ng/2026/01/03/maduro-is-a-thug-supported-terrorists-american-enemies-worldwide-ted-cruz/

Ok so why hasn't the US invaded and capttured the president of Iran? Make una dey deceive unasef.

DeepSight:
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Thanks for this, which I have gone through. Did you see my last revert by the way?

Well, all said and done all I see there is a great amount of speculation without any concrete answers to questions. As the article acknowledges, the early universe remains a mystery. I will add that the present universe is still one.

Yeah I saw it, that's why I made my response. Lemme repeat this is speculation at this point because the big bang is the extent to which our knowledge goes. Yes it is still a mystery but I like that we are still investigating it.

MadamExcellency:
You know nothing about cosmic order or international politics. Being in the United Nations doesn't make all countries equal. Maduro lost the election and refused to hand over power. He tortures and kills opposition members for simply speaking out. He has reduced the people's purchasing power to near zero. Just because Venezuelans aren't flocking to Nigeria but to the US does not give anyone the right to feign ignorance of the effects of 30% of the country's population fleeing to other nations due to Maduro's wickedness. Venezuelans are happy and celebrating, and you think you know it all to chime in on a secretive international matter. Please, not this time around. You have it all wrong.
He was given option to flee but no, he didn't take the option because of pride hence the consequences.

Yeah and is it the opposition that won in power now or Maduro's deputy? Make una dey deceive unasef.

autoez:
Couldn't have tried this in a larger country like Brazil or Mexico. Trump should just calm down. This isn't a good move to MAGA

The guy is already spoiling to do it again in Mexico and they may set their sights on Brazil, don't underestimate the greed and craziness driving this people.

raumdeuter:
America now has a president in the white house

America back to being respected again globally

Dude why lie to yourself. Did Putin's invasion of Ukraine make Russia more respected?

DeepSight:
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While mathematics may be used to understand things I doubt that it stands in any causative chain which leads to movement. For maths is always an idea, a mental construct and not an existent thing in itself. Secondly I would be wary of words or phrases such as "quantum foam" which may be nothing more than a new term for the same idea.

Especially because the word "quantum" has become the escapist word for science to describe all things mysterious and incomprehensible. This is just the way they talked about virtual particles in quantum vacuums even when there is no such thing anywhere to be seen as a vacuum.

In short, it seems to me that the word "quantum" has become the god of the gaps of the science world.

To be clear I am not stating that quantum foam is what preceded the big bang, it is just a candidate explanation for how it went down.

This article should explain it a bit better than I: https://www.space.com/the-universe/how-quantum-foam-may-have-inflated-the-early-universe

fergie001:
We are going to run the country until a safe, proper, and judicious transition” - Trump

President Donald Trump says the removal of Venezuela President Nicolás Maduro from power will open the door to the country’s vast oil reserves, a move that has the potential to reshape the global energy market.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/live-blog/rcna251053

There it is folks, the reason for this farce. Especially for those believing it was about drugs.

DeepSight:
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While mathematics may be used to understand things I doubt that it stands in any causative chain which leads to movement. For maths is always an idea, a mental construct and not an existent thing in itself. Secondly I would be wary of words or phrases such as "quantum foam" which may be nothing more than a new term for the same idea.

Especially because the word "quantum" has become the escapist word for science to describe all things mysterious and incomprehensible. This is just the way they talked about virtual particles in quantum vacuums even when there is no such thing anywhere to be seen as a vacuum.

In short, it seems to me that the word "quantum" has become the god of the gaps of the science world.

Nah, quantum foam is whole different thing than pure math or the quantum woo woo people usually refer to when they say the word quantum. I think it is the basis for why Krauss says nothing is unstable. I know Krauss' description is problematic but I think quantum foam is an interesting direction.

DeepSight:
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That may well be but simply because the truth is that they cant say what it was, and so you are right to say unknown. Not even could they ever properly describe what "singularity" meant. At best they say expansion from a point.

But tell me, what is the latest said.

From what I understand the singularity is a hold over from the mathematical equations that describe the earliest moments of the big bang. I think I heard quantum foam is the leading view.

DeepSight:
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It is said to be an expansion from the point of a singularity in theory.

As far as I understand the singularity is no longer held as an actual description of the nature of what preceded the big bang.

DeepSight:
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Lawrence Krauss famously or infamously argued that. Or something close to that. I think precisely that the universe arose from nothingness. I found it absurd because he proceeded to define that "nothingness" in a way which is alien to the meaning of the word itself.

It reminds me just how scientists have a different definition for time than that which exists in layman's experience.

Having said that, there is the failure by many (like Lawag3) to take note of different ideas such as creatio ex nihilo (creation from nothing), creatio ex materia (creation from some matter already existing) and creatio ex deo (creation from the divine substance of the creator itself.

I think we've touched on this previously and we agree that Krauss was coming at this sideways.

Cycleoftheworld:
Lol says the one who couldn't even read what I said. I said The Big Bang Theory only explains what happened AFTER the universe began and it's evidence of the fact that the universe had a beginning, not that it's the beginning of the universe.

How about you learn some reading literacy and educate yourself more? Clearly you aren't capable of intellectual discussion if you fail reading comprehension so badly.

I also notice you can't address anything. As expected based on all your mumbo jumbo across this entire forum.

Cycleoftheworld:
As for that LordReed...

He needs to go back to my first post, in my response to Hohenheim, I say in the third paragraph:

"The Big Bang Theory doesn't show a universe from nothing, it simply explains what happened after the moments that the universe begun.

Better go back to school yourself."

Yet he claims I said The Big Bang was the beginning. So he's either another liar for atheism like jaephoenix, has terrible reading comprehension or holds a psuedoscience view outside of established physics and disagrees with the established evidence that The Big Bang does show that our universe had a beginning. One we have dated back to 13.8 billion years ago.

Like with Hohenheim, I think he needs to go back to school, I'm done educating his tiny intellect that apparently struggles understanding basic concepts and words.

LoLz. Your attempt at an explanation doesn't still help your case. I repeat get off SM go learn proper science and then come back to discuss. Your glib jibber jabber is not worth the effort. Run along now and be a good sport.

mastermaestro:
Automatic is way easier than a bicycle

Agree 💯

Cycleoftheworld:
There's not really much to argue about with atheists. "Debating" atheists is like educating children. LMAO

LoLz. Says the one who says the BB is the beginning of the universe. Educate yourself properly before you come in here with half baked jibber jabber.

Wxstudio:
I’m about to start driving lessons and I’m unsure whether to learn manual or automatic.
For those who started with manual, was it hard at first? How long did it take you to finally get hold used to it? Do you think it gave you an advantage later, or would you advise a beginner to start with automatic instead?

I learnt how to drive on manual before autos were really popular here so it was worth it for me because the transition to auto was so easy I couldn't believe how stark the difference between driving manual was to driving automatic. Driving an automatic is simplier than riding a bicycle.

joy4news:
https://tribuneonlineng.com/mfms-olukoya-releases-prophetic-outlook-for-2026

LoLz. Number 10 is how they build gilded cages for their members.

Arda1000:
didnt the scientists explain exactly what killed the villagers and how it happened?

They did. They even made plans to prevent it from happening again.

Earthscience:
Oh yeah, you are right @CodeTemplarr. it is so Lethal!
In my 2 decades of practice as a geoscientist, the story I have heard about it is still a puzzle. Knowing the geology of Nigeria alone and that of west African is not still enough.

Nature is indeed a puzzle and ultimately GOD is an unimaginable bunch of mysteries that cannot be unraveled

And there it is, the god plug. It's a mystery therefore god. Why can't a mystery just be a mystery, a puzzle to be solved, why does it need to be tied to a god? None of the the mysteries we've solved have ever produced any god behind it, why would this one be different?

Love800:
Robin Williams, the wealthy American actor/comedian that took his life then, abi. Am i correct?

Yep.

Babalegba:
You don't have a clue,do you. How old are you really. Depression affects the brain directly and therefore the thinking process.
Somebody could lose all his wealth and family and still plug on because the cogitation apparatus is still intact but a man with family support and wealth could be a goner because of depression. When this is understood then workable plans could be implemented to help the victim.

Most people think depression is just sadness. They don't understand that it can be both psychological and physiological. A brain that is intertwined with depression is not something that is remedied just by overcoming the normal stresses of living.

SixSeven:
Someone was thinking I was heartless to be hard on this person, that I don't know the battles, I don't know the things this person is going through, I don't know this and that and I said part of being a man is surviving trials of this world. I told the person to give me an alternative to willingly participating in your own death and the person could not. And then I said, finding solution is a much better part to taking your life. No matter what. I stand by my words. Life is tough. It will break you but sometimes I think Nigeria's law or punishment for attempting suicide is more of a logical one than the punishment itself. Nigeria's law is telling you, if you want to do it, just do it and go, make sure you do it.

You don't know the pain you cause those living when you selfishly consider yourself only. You're not living for yourself alone if you don't know. Especially when you have influence. I prefer you take more steps to help live than take the easy step to press the end button when you know we will all leave this world unalive!

Then like those boys who shoot in US, you now write a manifesto letter on your death. For what? Just go silently and don't disturb the world if you wanted us to not worry about you. It would have been easier for the loved ones to lie to us and tell us he died in his sleep. I am so disappointed and I have no nice words to say. This is where we have raised this generation to mental health everything. Spiritually ungrounded, digitally prosperous. Perhaps one day, we will realise our true reason for living. A person is a person because of another person (Umuntu ngumuntu ngabantu”: a person is a person because of other people). We will remember our purpose on earth, stay grounded and keep serving others because service to humanity is the price you pay for earth. Fall seven times, rise up 8th.

May you never suffer what some of these people suffer because then you will understand that the struggle goes beyond finding a solution to external challenges. Do you think Robin Williams didn't overcome all the external challenges that came his way? Yet he faced a battle you will never understand if you don't suffer from the same or similar ailment. An ailment where you own body is fighting you every step of the way and not even in a way you can properly articulate to someone who is not suffering it.

I repeat, may you never suffer it.

Tats:
You’re a decent person.

Thanks.