₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Mr_Anony]If by being pointless to human beings, suffering becomes evil, then you must also hold that human beings possess in and of themselves the highest moral authority. If this is true, then we do not have objective moral values since no two human beings are the same and it is not guaranteed that all human beings will unanimously consider a particular suffering to be pointless. If this is true then the question of whether suffering is evil at all or anything for that matter becomes pointless.

When you extend this judgment of the necessity of suffering to every other creature, then you have an even bigger problem because one organism's unnecessary suffering can be very necessary to another.[/quote]More dodging and nonsense!!!

What does this have to do with human morality? Unless you are a psychopath, you know that unnecessary suffering is evil. Every person (Who is not part of the minority psychopaths) understands suffering and pain.


Please, stay on track. Stop trying to dodge here and there. This has nothing to do with animals.

[quote author=Area_boy]you dont live in the uk? ye or nae [/quote]Frosbel has nothing to say. He is a hypocri....

ijawkid: Oh I don't have a problem living in those countries......I'll liie to live in brazil......

I can even live in ghana or benin republic......

Nigeria is messed up because of corruption that's why I wanna move out.....

Secular or not secular,worshipping Yahweh is what is my priority.....

.......

And my God is real....you are fake.....

You know that I'm a boss.


You think Brazil is okay? You hear football and sexy ladies and a growing economy and you think Brazil is a great country?

May you never experience the gangstarism of the Favelas

wiegraf: @mac, I'd extend it say pointless to any lifeform in general sef... And the 'mitigating good' excuse is tenuous at best considering omnipotency...ie, if one even chose to accept the illogic that is omnipotency

It is unquestionably blind faith, not reason, you use here @anony. Our dear father type fanaticism as well. In the face of overwhelming evidence against your conclusions you still cling on. Many people in korea do think our dear family are demi-gods simply because they don't know better, but you do. Well, if you don't, then that makes you another type of ignorant, yes? Even with your 'all-good', omnipotent but cannot defy logic (yet cannot be false...), let's not even consider omniscience (it simply cannot be verified, in any universe, and you claim his omnipotency bows to logic) ,your arguments still fail terribly...
Because I say so is not logic...Admit you accept he is 'all-good' on faith. I, personally, can ignore the other gaping holes...for now...
Yield, good ser...

lol, its over! It is left for Anony to confess

[quote author=Lord_Reed]Maybe you should take a look at my questions again and answer appropriately.[/quote]

truthislight: His he your "son" (atheist) ?

No, the picture is an internet meme. Notice the grammatical error

[quote author=Mr_Anony]lol if you claim that there is pointless suffering in the world, then you must also claim that there is suffering that makes sense from which pointless suffering deviates. You would do well to tell us how you know that one particular suffering makes sense all by itself while another doesn't.

If you say that something is pointless, then the question that follows is "pointless to whom/what?"[/quote]What kind of artful dodging is this? Did we mention aliens or animals? POINTLESS TO HUMAN BEINGS OF COURSE!!!

Why bring up the irrelevant issue of suffering that makes sense? We are talking about pointless suffering and as long as it exists your God remains evil or he doesnt exist.

truthislight: mr Anony is just human and he is trying his best.

But the fact that he said he does not have an ideal on an issue should not be use as a basis to crucify him, "honesty" they say is a virtue, or dont you appreciate honesty?

Should have been better you thanked him for being honest with you just like maezaje did and even ask him to go ask his God, that to me was a Beautiful/better approach.

We cant and should not hope to win a debate all the time neither should allow our personal sentiment to override our sense of propriety.
Peace

Anony is not trying his best, he is lying his best.

He wasnt being honest. I warned him and he went on with the false accusation.

As for having no idea on the issue, he should have not then gone tro debate on it as if he knew what he was talking about.

It is a waste of time to ask Anony to ask God because it is not possible for him to ask god as god doesnt exist. If god did truly exist, Anony would have asked god and gotten the answer before exposing his ignorance.

[quote author=Lord_Reed]Ahh yes we get to the crux of your reason for starting this thread, to tell us our LORD is fake. Now that you have done that are you happy? You feel fulfilled?[/quote]What? You think that I am a sad case like you? Running around in fear of a sky daddy? Do you think I sit down and have nightmares of hell? I dont need to pray numerous times a day or even pray at all when it has no effect whatsoever.

Anony, give up.

Just give up.

Either you accept that your God is evil because he allows pointless suffering like earhtquakes which brings abut no long term benefits or you accept that he doesnt exist.


There is pointless suffering in this world. Either you omnipotent god takes responsiblity or he doesnt exist in the first place to take it.

ijawkid: Secular laws or archaic laws is not d issue @ hand....my faith in God and carrying out his precepts is what matters......

I don't need secular laws to put me in order or to advance in life..

I live by Gods laws and that is enough....

Those countries can keep putting up secular laws,that's there business........

My hope is in Gods kingdom.....

So it don't matter where I live....my service to God is what's most important...

After all God created all lands and territories.....I can live where I wanna....

When d end comes atheists and there secular laws won't be around

It matters where you live. Why dont you run to contries in south America or sub-saharan africa were christianity is growing ike mad? Why do you want to go the UK and USA where atheism is growing?


You are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Your god is fake.

musKeeto: Sometimes, I wonder if Christianity was supposed to be this complicated. What happens to those who believe but have no access to internet or other books?
What happens when they are "strongly rooted" in "wrong" doctrines?
@Mr. Anony, this was why I had the discussion with you once about the Bible being the word of God.. I still believe that if there's indeed a God, he would imprint his constitution on the heart not pages..

I leave you guys to your arguments..

This is what I hate about you Muskeeto. You are never man enough to discuss and debate your convictions. You are 100% right here but like an atheist with no ballz, you run away from Anony and co.

https://gifsforum.com/images/image/son%20i%20am%20disapoint/grand/son_i_am_disappoint.jpg

mazaje: He keeps accusing you of the inability to reason properly when its his own reasoning that is always deficient. . .He is a sophist that prefers arguing with athiest that give him room to dance and dance all over, when asked direct questions its either hr runs away or pretends the logic of the question isn't sound enough. . He prefers some nonsense sophsim predicated on some ridiculous premise. He makes his own assumptions and tries to force you to argue based on them. He claims to argue for god but constatnly throws the bible under the bus. . .The bible clearly says god will protect his own like a father will protect his child. . .It goes on to say that those that call on to the name of Yahweh with belief in their minds will have what ever the asked for. If you ask him why many who have asked their god for protection and ended up not getting protected as promised by their god he begings to wriggle and say you are asking emotional questions. . . . . .He will just prefer that you go about dancing to his ridiculous tunes of sophistry. . .

Anony is the Sophist-in-Chief of Nairaland! The guy spins and dodges like Dinesh Desouza


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-92ra6aorPc

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Wow, you are disgusting![/quote]What? Blowjobs scare you? Are you a man?


On a serious note, tell your disgusting cheerleader to BACK OFF! Hypocrite

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Well my friend, your inability to reason properly is not an insult, it is something you need to work on. The sad part is that even if I showed you, you'll still not understand it because you actually need to have understanding or at least humility to see your flaws. but that's by the way.

About arguing from ignorance: I am not, because I am not claiming to know the reason. If I claimed to know something that I don't know, then I'll be arguing from ignorance. Not knowing the purpose of suffering is not the same as not knowing that suffering has a purpose.

Secondly: as expected, you misunderstood my analogy but I won't sweat it. You hold that God does not exist as a foundation upon which you base your arguments. This immediately means that you cannot then question God's attributes or whether suffering is necessary or not. The whole debate becomes pointless if God does not exist.[/quote]First of all, you are a fake christian. I just warned you to stop insulting me and because you are too arrogant to confess that you were wrong to call me unreasonable without any proof or evidence, you repeat your false accusations again. You sir are a douchebag of Dinesh Desouza's calibre!
How can you even imply that I am so foolish and lacking in humility that I can not even see where I am unreasonable (if even I am) if you point it out?
You have some issues, bro.


Secondly, if you dont know the purpose, then why claim that the purpose is not evil? Is that an argument from ignorance?
Your foolish counter is to say that since God is good/just his purpose must be just. Unfortunately, your bible also describes God as a jealous smiter. According to your bible, God is both good and evil therefore, your claim that god is just fails. Another problem with your god is just theory is that God has never been just in the bible from punishing both Adam and Eve for innocence while allowing the devil to murder Jobs family

If god is just, then he cant be merciful. Two contradictory characters.



Your analogy fails. End of story. Atheists always say that they will believe if there is evidence. So, you are the one entering a debate on the wrong foot. You bring no evidence and want us to assume based on faith your arguments are valid? Are you mad?

Ihedinobi: Mazaje and MacDaddy, if you please, I would like to come in at this point to point something out.

The reason you guys like to continue engaging Mr Anony is actually because he is extremely lenient and patient with your arguments which tend toward unreasonability, to say the least. He is a very courteous debater and an extremely humble one. That is why rather than engage in shouting matches, he disengages.

You call that cowardice and, per MacDaddy-speak, Anony-houdini. It is false to say either. I have, on purpose, drawn an argument with MacDaddy out to its full logical conclusion to show what happens when an unreasonable debater refuses to capitulate and tries to drag a fully-concluded debate further with a reasonable, honest debater.

Cyrexx, here represented by himself, took it upon himself in that discussion to caution me for insolence and arrogance. Whether he was right or not is not the issue. The issue is that because I did not disengage but decided to slug it out to its full conclusion with MacDaddy, I made myself vulnerable to such accusation.

The result of that would be that MacDaddy and others of like sympathies would take refuge in the falsity that I do not countenance opposing arguments. So, they would not accept arguments with me as capable of honest examination of conflicting positions.

Mr Anony does not wish for that kind of representation. What he wants is to take an honest view of your submissions and prepare capable responses to them or capitulate accordingly. In other words, he willingly continues to give you guys the benefit of the doubt that arguing with you is worth his time and energy.

But you do not appreciate this fact, and once you indicate that lack of appreciation, he releases you from further engagement. It is actually a courtesy done to you, because any further argument with you would result in a metaphorical beating up by him of you. This is what my episode with MacDaddy was meant to exemplify.

Honest debate means that the debaters give each other benefit of the doubt that their arguments are worth consideration. A debate ceases to be honest and worthy of human resource when that fact becomes false.

Finally, while we - my very dear brother, Mr Anony and myself, particularly - would love to see all of you become Christians, we are not about forcing Christ upon you. This is why we continue to engage you. I myself disengaged totally for a time because of my frustration with your type of arguments, but I have recuperated and have learned a bit better and am learning increasingly how to handle you guys without destroying or abandoning you. You're under no compulsion from anyone to accept Christ if you don't want to. We only take on your arguments to show that there is no reason to not accept Christ except that you do not want to. And that itself is a reason worthy of respect. That is, it is a position that anybody, created or not, must respect. It is an act of will and is in itself enough reason to quit striving with the person in question.

If you then want to strengthen that reason with other arguments, dear sirs, you will have to tolerate having such arguments demolished by stronger arguments. That is the risk involved in debate.

Yawn.

Just suck Mr. Anony's D1ck and get over your cheerleading.

I have already warned Anony not to call my arguments unreasonable without showing where they are unreasonable, yet you barge in and claim that my comments are unreasonable.

Are you a troll or just foolish?

ijawkid: So what's ur problem with that??

U speak as if only atheists build up those countries.......

Uh??

I can choose to live where ever I choose to live.......

You can choose but you will end up a hypocrite.

Secular laws built up those countries. You cant point to any of the top 10 advanced countries that do not have secular laws.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]The question you directed at me is not mine to answer but God since He knows the purpose. Nowhere in my argument have I claimed to know the purpose of suffering.

...It is like a kid asking another kid why they have to eat broccoli. The other kid doesn't know and can only ask daddy or repeat what daddy told her.

So my answer is: Ask God.


p/s: the reason I don't like arguing with you has little or nothing to do with your ability but has almost everything to do with your inability to reason properly sometimes.[/quote]Btw, your brocolli-child analogy is an epic fail.

1) My 9 year old nephew can tell you the benefits of vegetables because they teach nutrition and diets in school. There is also the internet.

2) Unlike your god, daddy is available. The question can be answered. For god, never

[quote author=Mr_Anony]The question you directed at me is not mine to answer but God since He knows the purpose. Nowhere in my argument have I claimed to know the purpose of suffering.

...It is like a kid asking another kid why they have to eat broccoli. The other kid doesn't know and can only ask daddy or repeat what daddy told her.

So my answer is: Ask God.


p/s: the reason I don't like arguing with you has little or nothing to do with your ability but has almost everything to do with your inability to reason properly sometimes.[/quote]You keep insulting me by saying that I am unable to reason properly. However, you never point out the unreasonable things in my comments. Please, point out the unreasonable things in my comments or be prepared to be abused by me in return False accusations are annoying and I respond to them very bitterly. You have witnessed this before and so, please stop



Anyways, it is good that you have conceded that you are arguing from ignorance. If you dont know the purpose of suffering (which you have now confessed to), then why claim that suffering is just? Why claim that the suffering God allows is just?


Logicboy is too much


(Yes, I know that I'm a bit arrogant)

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Nice.........I am beginning to enjoy your statements, you make i tough for me and I love it.......let's move on.
One mistake you are making is equating suffering to evil and it's purpose to good. . . . .such that suffering now becomes a necessary evil towards a greater good. That's the wrong way to look at it.
The right way to look at it is this: By default, suffering exists for a purpose therefore it is not evil. (this follows because if God is omniscient and omnipotent creator, then where suffering exists in His creation, it must have a purpose)
The difficulty is that when man sees suffering that He does not understand, he calls it evil. Because man does not see it's purpose, it is evil to man but not evil to God because God sees it's purpose.

....much like when you are vaccinating a baby, the baby cries because she doesn't see the purpose of her pain but you see that the pain is necessary so vaccination is good to you but evil to your baby. If your baby could understand the need for vaccination, she wouldn't see the pain as evil.

-if you counter that a baby has no moral understanding, then we can bump up the scenario to denying junk food to a five year old or making your little children to learn maths (all the things a child would consider unnecessary suffering but you would consider essential good).[/quote]I see why you dont like debating with me. I dont tolerate long discussions with wiggle room. You love atheists who give you a chance to peddle your BS, dont you?


Let me debunk you quickly.


I agree that unnecessary suffering is evil. Suffering with no benefit in the long wrong is evil. Now, I have to ask you what is the benefit of allowing a child to get molested? Or sending earthquakes to countries like Japan?


I know you will try to say that earthquakes could lead to better earthquake detection systems. Preemptive debunking; first, you cant prepare adequately for an earthquake no matter how early you detect it, properties and roads will be damaged as they cant be moved. Secondly, we wouldnt need to detect it inn the first place if they didnt happen. We can detect dangerous meteor falls but they hardly happen, why should god then allow earhtquakes?

ribechi: You know it is said that the foolish things of this would be used to confirm the wise. The point is this, people must be foolish for wisdom to have value.

In conclusion i will say the truth you know will not set you free. Armed robbers know the truth but they still stick with armed robbery, kidnappers and killers know the truth but still to what they do. But it is the truth you KNOW and DO that sets you free. It is foolishness to start up an arguement with one who feels he knows all and does nothing to its effect.

I rest my case.

What nonsense.

I have a perfect reason for not believing in god. There is no evidence for god. Can you point to anything and say "this is evidence for god"? No.


You on the other hand believe in something without evidence. You take god on faith.


What truth do you know? You claim truth from a bible which contains a lot of errors and fallacies. Do you really believe that we black people are descendants of two Jewish people (Adam and Eve are Hebrew names)? I hope you know that the fact is that human origin is from Africa? Do you really believe in talking snakes?

ribechi: hmmm! Triple load of sh*t. Perhaps you didnt read my post very well. I said they are all fools.


God is isnt the God of chaos.You have got the choice to choose whether you like evil and hate or vis versa. God didn't those people in those situation to send them all to hell. They put themselves in such situation. They feel that they can handle whatever that is called challenge in their lives, forgeting that in order to tap into the supernatural favor and love of God, one needs to invite him. Like i said its a choice.


Well that is why the same holy book says "my people are perished for lack of knowledge".... Did u just say God is a FOOL? Perhaps you shouldn't have said that. It is no curse but God is giving a chance now to be redeemed. You must have said worst things. You could done better just staying as an atheist, but going further to say He is fool, I have nothing say but watch what becomes of you soon.. You will know obviously what I am talking about when the time comes. I just hope it will not be too late and i hope your pride and ego will not make you stay back.

God has no plan to send people to hell. It is for those who have refused to give their lives to Him. Again its a matter of choice to do so. But at your peril.

So my friend, as for forgiveness, give youe life to him and amend your ways. The word has been spoken to you this day. I hope it is not going to be used against you on the last day.

LMAO. Let me lecture you on your ignorance.


Nigeria (less than 1% atheists);
-Literacy level; 61.3%
-5th peaceful country in the world


Japan (64% atheists)
-Literacy level; 99%
-146th peaceful country in the world.


In a sane world, no Nigerian would call a majority (64%) of Japanese people fools because the Nigerian would be wrong, bigoted and a hypocrite. Japan is far mopre advanced and japanese people far more educated on an aggregate level. Furthermore, calling all atheists fools is bigotry. Why dont you try to call all muslims fools or all pagans fools? If you were born in Europe, you would most likely be born to atheist parents, if you were born in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, you would most likely be a muslim. Why are you quick to call someone a fool because of what he or she believes?



Now, lets talk about the issue of hell. A rap.ist rapes and kills an atheist woman. The atheist woman dies and goes to hell for her atheism. The rap.ist converts in prison to christianity and becomes a missionary and charity worker. The rap.ist dies and goes to heaven. Does that sound like a system that is made by a wise being or a fool?


There are atheistic religions like Buddhism in which many bhuddists dont believe in god. Are they going to hell for being born in Asia to Buddist parents?

Let me leave you with a picture debunking your notion of freewill.




www.nairaland.com/attachments/822189_God_troll_4_jpga551fc9ce48c5b1894b503b456c0fa12

ijawkid: Get this bro....

Countries are not what will face Judgement but individuals.....

.....Even if I live in an atheist country,I might get saved as long as I uphold to my belief in Yahweh.......

The country I live in does not affect my salvation......

My individual effort to serve God is what matters most........

lol....ur individual effort yet you want to enjoy in countries that were built by collective effort of individuals endorsing a secular society withsecular laws

frosbel:

Confused by ur hypocrisy!

The country that gave Nigeria christianity (the UK) is no longer a christian nation. Over 40% are said to be atheists and some figures say that the irreligious figures are much higher. However, Nigeria is becoming more and more religious. Europe is becoming more and more atheistic, same with Canada and Australia. Even in the USA, where atheists groups are claiming that there are more atheists than figures suggest with a growing number of closet atheists.

We see Nigerian christians and muslims flocking to secular Western countries for greener pastures yet their religion is the truth. The most damning factor here is that most of their regular religious posters live/enjoy in secular countries which have a significant amount of atheists. Frosbel and Anony live in the UK (a godless country). Tbaba lives in the USA, which has a lot of christians but has secular laws. Tbaba's fate is even worse as America is very anti-islamic especially when it comes to matters of foreign policy on terrorism.



I want to know how theists deal with this fact. What is the fate of these secular countries? Are they going to pay for their godlessness? Are the religious peeps who run to such countries going to suffer with them? Why are these secular countries prospering?

JeSoul: Go and joke on your own thread and stop derailing others. I received a complaint. If this was done to you you would be complaining too.

Furthermore, It wasn't only 'wine' ya'll were joking about was it? Pls move on and leave the thread in peace.

Okay. Okay.


I am only agreeing because we said more than wine.


My day shall come

[quote author=Mr_Anony]lol, on the contrary, it's not worthy of a rebuttal.[/quote]boss

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Hmm.....debunked??
Was my definition wrong? please tell......

....the part about Ayn Rand: lol how did I fail again?[/quote]Ayn Rand?

Sorry but Atlas shrugs should not be taken too seriously as a book for real life and logic. While it serves as a good book listing the moral evils that can befall humanity or nation from a libertarian perspective, it is not something one should use literally to comment on skepticism.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Interesting, cause in the conversation you just described, the only skeptic in it is you (The only question asked in the conversation was asked by you). It appears I am the claimant in your scenario.[/quote]lol....I was mirroring your story about the doctor and the dead man. The dead man made a claim that was fake and so did you!

[quote author=Mr_Anony]SMH..................logic is so lost on you[/quote]lol....the logic was too much for you? no rebuttal?

lol......


Is this some maclatunji revolution?


So, saying that Jesus should turn water to wine in my house is now cause to be hidden?


Jesoul, do not enter a a slippery slope that will trap you!