₦airaland Forum

gbadexy: I read african traditional belief in G.N.S and while most tribes believe in the existence of a supreme being and creator, only two tribes ;one in ghana and other is east africa (can't remember the names), actually worship God.
I read about gautama budha with an open mind and explored african traditional believe system.
I also opened a thread here trying to understand the scope of christianity and I read english Quran to know what Islam I practice really is albeit skeptically initially.
Taking the yorubas as a case study, my observation is that the followers of ogun,sango, oya and all the other deities including esu(devil) all acknowledge their is one supreme being that created all the deities and the deities act as intercessor between God and man. Why followers of these deities believe in God, thank God and extol His virtues through names they bear, they never pray to God, not even setting aside a day to pray or worship God specifically. Instead they pour libation, offer sacrifices and worship these deities always and even set aside days for festivals. They praise the deities for favours and thank them even though they believe in God.
The so called foreign religion appeals to reason and confirms reinforce what we all know about the existence of a creator and the need to worship Him. Nobody is forced to remain in the religion and people were converted by superior reasoning and explanation.
Now, I was skeptical about Islam deep down and think perhaps prophet Muhammad copied the bible. I started reading the english Quran to look for proof of its authenticity and I opened a thread questioning christians. I was reading a verse in the Quran one day when I read a passage the says God controls and direct all the affairs of the world from heaven and that it goes up to Him in a day, equivalent to a thousand earth years. Because I understand the concept of speed of light before, I instantly understood that it was talking about the affairs traveling to heaven over a distance of a thousand earth years in a day at the speed of light and it was after that I went on line to search for article about the Quran and the speed of light.
In the articles I found online, I got to know that adding the days in a thousand year divided by time gives the accurate measurement of speed of light and interestingly also that Quran says God created angels from light and they carry out God's wishes.
So basically, just as we discarded some traditions like killing twins, female circumcision, human sacrifice ,checking genotype before marriage due to superior argument that can be related with, just so does people embrace the foreign religion due to a better understanding.
While Islam lays emphasis in praying directly to God only, thereby opposing the traditional belief, christianity and catholics also encourage the worship of God but through intercessors like jesus and mary.
But all in all, nobody is forced in a religion and the foreign religion has stopped many bad practices and bring make man conscious of the fact that they would give account to God unlike before when man does what they like because they don't know there is consequence. While it doesn't completely check bad acts, people still think twice and have their conscience check them.

Why is it that no christian or muslim will mention the fact that both their religions came with slavery into Nigeria?

Billyonaire: Imported Religion is by far better than those superstitious dogma's of we Africans. Killing of twins etc. Even in Igboland they still call some people "Outcasts". European religion comes with education of the mind. But African Religion breeds ignorance, fear, superstition and death.

lolololol.


The herbalist in my village doesnt kill witches or defrauds people with tithes like christians do in Nigeria.

wiegraf: I like it. Being critical does not hinder being open-minded, at all, contrary to some peoples beliefs. Garbage in, garbage out, etc..

That was what I was trying to put accross to Anony.

Deep Sight: You really expect proper responses to that infantile "argument" up there?

Is this the sort of nonsense poor Anony had to deal with?

Grow up man.

Stop using reverse psychology. Point out what is wrong if it is clearly wrong.

Please point it out or shut up. There are other threads for you to derail

Wow, watch how the christians debunk my argument with no coherent rebuttal at all. Seriously, if something is wrong why not say what is wrong? Why no comment or point out what is wrong?


#Shameless

Deep Sight: Daft.

Troll harder.

I had a discussion with Mr Anony that was quite interesting.


Anony said that my atheist worldview would deny miracles (eg ressurection of christ, water into wine, miracle healing by pastors) if even there was evidence for miracles. I said that miracles are non-existent in a sane world and reality. I argued that I wasnt holding a worldview but a factual stance based on reality. Historical evidence and biology shows that humans dont rise from the dead. Anony argued that his evidence is the bible but I then replied that the bible is not evidence. Anony said that my worldview does not allow me to accept other kinds of evidence.

Anony kept saying that my world view was close minded and that my world view is skeptical to the reality of miracles. I then formulated a counterargument for a good rebuttal; The Pink Unicorn Argument. Anony was claiming that I do not have a clear cut case against the evidence of miracles.


I asked Mr Anony if I brought a horse painted pink and with a horn glued to its forehead (all done iin a professional manner), would he believe that it was a unicorn? Remember, the horse is professionally designed and so you cant tell by looking and touching because it looks so real.


a) Anony said yes.
Then, Like the people who were decieved by Jesus that he was god/son of god, Anony would believe something (the unicorn) based on flimsy evidence. Why avoid scientific testing, biology and historical evidence to debunk the Unicron and magic?


b) If Anony had said no.
Then, Anony would be denying the existence of a unicorn based on the exact same reason why I do not believe that Jesus ressurected from the dead

-Historical evidence; no reliable record of a person coming back from the dead and no relaible record of unicorns

-Biology; dead bodies can not be fully reanimated and unicorns would have been found by now due to their size and the fact that the whole world has been mapped.

musKeeto: Yeah. It depends on your phone model though.
For Android phones, I use dolphin browser.. much easier to navigate and edit, quote too.. Check for it on the android store

For BB, I use opera mini. Not with my phone now, but will check the settings I use and post them here ASAP.

I hope you don't use a Nokia or Apple...

I see that we are very different people.

Iphone is actually good for NL. I comment sometimes using it

plaetton: Here is the complete image.

This painting by Michelangelo was commissioned by one of the popes for the Sistine chapel.
It appears that that the genius used this opportunity to play the biggest joke on the pope.

What do you notice in the image?

It shows the image of god inside what is undoubtably, the human brain.
Do you get the joke?

It seems that Michelangelo was using imagery to tell the pope that god was residing and confined to the prescincts of the human mind.

Wow, that's epic satire there!


If Michealangello really did that, then he is my new hero!

Martian: Most of them don't realise it and those who do try to rationalize it by saying things like "spiritual israel" . Then others like Buzugee will just claim to be the "real" Israelites.

Dignifying yahweh and Israel, makes as much sense as dignifying Zeus and Greece.

Well said.

Ihedinobi: Lol @ Nairaland church of whatever whatever. You go fear fear na.

@Cyrexx and MacDaddy: religion may divide, but God binds together.

100% agree.


Assuming that god = nokia


https://www.techinasia.com/techinasia/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/nokia-logo.jpeg





https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Michelangelo-creation.jpg

musKeeto: btw, McDaddy, u doing garri crew? lol..

Nooo!

I was just joking ooo! I have nothing to do with the garri crew.

mkmyers45: How can your house be on fire and you go around chasing rats?

Can your bowl of garri have sand in it and you go around giving eba n soup recipes?

Anyways, this will just further destroy Nigeria's image. We have Boko Haram and our top pastor wants to address violence/unrest in the middle east? This Adeboye must look like a confused fool to the Americans

CrazyMan: Mac I don't have the strength for unnecessary arguments...if you feel comfortable with that answer, you posted, then fine...cos even if I type here all day, it won't change your beliefs...you won't be convinced. So what's the point?

The words of a debunked man.....

CrazyMan: What foundation...if you think that christianity started with slave masters, then you must be a real joker.

Cos I don't need to quote the bible here for you to know that christianity was in existence thousands of years before the slave trade.

The slavery in the old testament was what? Surprise labour?


Why was Paul telling slaves to obey their masters?

frosbel: Hi Jesoul, long time no talk !!

Please can you remove this despicable article https://www.nairaland.com/1053379/kill-muslem-today.

Let us show some respect and decorum when dealing with our Muslim brethren though they might not reciprocate.

Thanks.

Seconded. I dont want to add flame to the fire.

obadiah777: THOSE WHO DONT PICK UP ARE DEAF DUMB AND BLIND PEOPLE RESIDING IN THE VALLEY OF DRY BONES ( ROMANS 11 VS 7 ) ( ISAIAH 6 VS 9 ). THEY DONT PICK UP CUZ THEY ARE DEAF. THEY CANT HEAR THE RING

Valley of dry bones do not exist.


I myself reside in the one true valley of logic (My god, I am going mad like Buzugee!)

CrazyMan: You just confirmed my post which was quoted by you. Therefore, the bolded section is irrelevant...I've already gotten my answer from you.


Stop repeating yourself...I never denied this fact.


You just exonerated the christians with your post...the one I bolded. Therefore every other post you made is irrelevant, cos I've already gotten my answer.


How many recent cases of slavery have you hear that christians were involved in...why do you guys love clinging to the past.

The christianity we experience is totally different from the politically motivated Christianity that was being practiced then.

So cut the crap, and face reality...christianity is a religion of peace whether you choose to believe it or not.

So because muslims started slavery in Africa and christians only did slavery in the past, christianity is now exonerated from the crimes of slavery?


https://robinbrown.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/double-facepalm1.jpg

ProudUSA: Actually one of them (probably both) does, look it up.
What if aliens are more intelligent and look for origins of the energies running the universe based on concepts totally impossible to our knowledge of physics and they turn out not to be atheist? It doesn't really matter what they are so long as they also exist as creatures existing within the same confines of our universe.



Creating artificial life actually means you couldn't create the real one. The best we can do is use things already created even right down to atoms, particles and cells. Plus given the statement "God teaches man what man knew not", man would be stuck to having ideas generated time after time in his mind. The theory of evolution like growth of organisms and existence needs something to work - constant change from one state to the next. When you think about it, everything in our universe tends to rely on movement or change from one state to the next. The big question is what is causing all this change, it can't be residual energy from the BigBang because then energy or force from somewhere else needs to have been impacted from yet another source or origin causing the BigBang. It's been baffling scientists for ages (adding to confusing between theories of relativity and quantum physics).

It's human nature to believe in something whether people call it religion or scientific ideas, in the end it winds up to the ultimate end. In the past when someone had the knowledge to do things no-one could understand, it would be called miracles. Today they'd be scientific facts.

So you have your beliefs friend, others have theirs.

Lol....you dont sound so confident about your ant-atheist rant again.



Now, the bible/koran do not mention aliens or intelligent life outside earth. They hardly even mention the 8 planets.

Religion will die as science becomes more advanced

ProudUSA: Actually one of them (probably both) does, look it up.
What if aliens are more intelligent and look for origins of the energies running the universe based on concepts totally impossible to our knowledge of physics and they turn out not to be atheist? It doesn't really matter what they are so long as they also exist as creatures existing within the same confines of our universe.



Creating artificial life actually means you couldn't create the real one. The best we can do is use things already created even right down to atoms, particles and cells. Plus given the statement "God teaches man what man knew not", man would be stuck to having ideas generated time after time in his mind. The theory of evolution like growth of organisms and existence needs something to work - constant change from one state to the next. When you think about it, everything in our universe tends to rely on movement or change from one state to the next. The big question is what is causing all this change, it can't be residual energy from the BigBang because then energy or force from somewhere else needs to have been impacted from yet another source or origin causing the BigBang. It's been baffling scientists for ages (adding to confusing between theories of relativity and quantum physics).

It's human nature to believe in something whether people call it religion or scientific ideas, in the end it winds up to the ultimate end. In the past when someone had the knowledge to do things no-one could understand, it would be called miracles. Today they'd be scientific facts.

So you have your beliefs friend, others have theirs.

Lol....you dont sound so confident about your ant-atheist rant again.



Now, the bible/koran do not mention aliens or intelligent life outside earth. They hardly even mention the 8 planets.

Religion will die as science becomes more advanced

CrazyMan: If you must know, the slave trade was carried out by political reasons not religious reasons...I'm sure you're aware of that.

So stop acting as if the main reason for the slave trade was to enforce christianity into africa.

Slave trade was mainly an economic issue for labour. The economic issue was supported by religion both christianity and islam.

The African slave trade was justified with the bible when it came to the West. Christianity is a slave religion

CrazyMan: This is not a christian pagan battle...so don't go there...the poster made a reference to roman catholic's involvement in the slave trade, so I replied him by clarifying the whole issue properly.


The issue of Aglicians, Baptist and co didn't come up...so I preferred to remain mute on the whole issue...so what's all this fuss about?

A half truth is a lie. Your religion was mostly in support of slavery by the fact that the most powerful denominations were in support of slavery at the time.

CrazyMan: Slave trade was started by the whites...true

98% of them were christians...true

As christians, they decided to enforce their religion on their slaves...true

With time, they came back to their senses and abolished the slave trade...true

The gave their freed slaves freedom of choice to choose their religion...true

Never again was there any report about christians forcing or killing people whatsoever again...true.

What point are you trying to prove?

False!!!!

1) The African slave trade was started by muslims.

2) Christians still kill witches in Africa. Europe (Britian) dumped their toxic religion on us and forgot about the religion. Do British people burn witches anymore? Ae British people religious? No, but We Africans carry their foriegn religion and do all kinds of atrocities like tithe-fraud, battering children accused of witchcraft, improsining homosexuals etc

3) We destroy our own cultures. Our great granfathers were wed in their traditional cultures and they hardly divorced but now we do church weddings. We are now saying that weddings are not holy or proper until done in a church. Shameful.


4) There were secular movements in the call for abolition of slave trade

5) From the changing behaviour of christians on slavery, their truth is not eternal and neither is their bible's or god's

CrazyMan: You just contradicted yourself by this last post you made.

You claimed that christians were wrong to have gone into slavery...unfortunately you proved your statement to be false by supporting it with a bible verse.

Pathetic!

How did I contradict myself?

a) Slavery is wrong. Christians engaged in slavery

b) The bible supports slavery.


Are you just complaining of contradiction from thin air?

After seeing Crazyman's argument, I am saddened at the mental slavery of some Nigerians.


1) Crazyman mentions that no christian slave owner killed his slave in the name of Jesus? How would Crazyman know that? What was the punbishment for trying to read? Trying to read a bible? Any death from christian slavery, whether it was being flogged to death or death in transportation of slaves is a death in the name of Jesus because the bible was used to enforce that slavery.


2) Christianity has killed far more than any pagan religion. Crazyman will counter that those killing in the name of christianity are not christians, just as he denies that catholic slave traders are not christians. Then, Crazyman is arguing illogically because a pagan can claim that the pagans who do bad things like sacrifices are not pagans.


3) Crazyman acts like it was only the catholics that engaged in slavery. Unfortunately for you, the major denominations supported slave trade! Anglican, Baptist, Mormons etc.

4) Crazyman ignores the support of slavery in the bible. Paul in the new testament clearly tells slaves to obey their masters. The old testament says that slaves can be taken from the nations around isreal.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)



Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

ProudUSA: No need to be scared of your belief, son.


No wonder it's said it's logical to assume humans are illogical. A little thinking helps the brain, that's what it's for.

If we ever find aliens (intelligent life) on other planets, then clearly, the god of the Abrahamic religions is quite a fraud.

Aliens would show the bible and Koran to be incomplete as there is no mention of life on other planets. What if the aliens are more intelligent but atheistic? Have you considered that?



If humans can create artificial life, your god becomes less special. He is credited with creating human life (which is a lie if you consider evolution). Creating human life would not be special anymore. Your god wont be special anymore

Epic fail.


o back to logic 101, boy

Evil Brain: I totally agree.

And Sam Harris is a boss!

Seconded!


Sam Harris is a Boss

obadiah777: Habbakuk.

hmmmm if i write who i will like to meet i will run out of space. truthfully though i will like to meet all the regulars, without whom this section would be boring. you guys make a brother wanna keep coming back to this section. this is like virtual home now. yall got a brother addicted to this joint. i would mention names but i dont want to leave anyone out but all the regulars, you know yourselves. make thunda faya una yansh. una don make me addicted to this place

Shut up!


At first, I used to like you but now, I can not help but shiver at your theories about God.

Christians and the irreligious bonding.


Where is islam?

Ptolomeus: Hello dear friend (and all other friends of the forum)

The forum discussed, (one might say that at times we fight). I had heated discussions with some colleagues, and then both ended up feeling a mutual affection.
Religious themes polarize us all ... but behind every person there is a bias human someone is in the success or failure, expressed his thought.
I want this beautiful message from you, will make everyone think that makes us think differently not good nor bad, just different.
Your experience was very beautiful ... although I live thousands of miles of Nairaland, I wish with all my heart personally meet my friends, and also to those with whom I have discussed heavily.
I know all of them are honest, but we think differently about religion.
Let us express our ideas, but we avoid the desalting.
We must respect
My tribute here first for my friends on the forum, but also for those with whom I have discussed strongly;
Olaadegbu, Frosbel .. to all my affection.
Mac Daddy: congratulations for the thread ... and for the great pose, which hopefully will be understood by all.

Gracias!


we are all humans at the end of the day

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Hmmm..........some people have been gossiping about me behind my back eh? lol



Anyway, about macdaddy/logicboy, I'll say one thing. the dude is actually quite intelligent. Unfortuately, we didn't really have a debate per se, we just had a bunch of random arguments. . . .and didn't really participate in the actual debate we came to attend.
To be honest, logicboy didn't look or sound much different in person than I had expected. At first sight, he looks relatively young for his age (or rather what I suspect is his age).
For some reason, I got the feeling that he was somewhat surprised to meet me and this feeling lingered even up until the point when we parted ways (or maybe it's just me).

Anyway all in all, we had a good time. (we got along so well that someone actually thought we were a gay couple....lol, ok that's not what really happened but someone actually asked us "are you together?" go figure )

Dude don't worry, I don't know when next I'll be in London (probably sometime next year) I'll look you up.

Yeah, thanks for your advice, it is well noted. . .but then note also that truth is not necessarily in who talks faster and louder. The rapid quickfire approach is really only useful for bullying and brute-force debates....I get what you mean though.[/quote]No probs.

MyJoe: This got me laughing out loud.

I think he would be wearing an Alexander Amosu suit and a bowler hat, carrying a crocodile skin walking stick and puffing at a cigar. He’d probably be carrying .45 inside his suit – you can’t be too careful with these evangelical atheists.

Seriously, guy doesn’t have anything for you in particular – I think he comes across that way to anyone he deems “dishonest”, or “idiotic”, which includes anyone he has had a contentious exchange with, especially if “anyone” is an “evangelical atheist” or an “anti-Christian”.

Decent guy? Almost certainly would be in many matters.

I think he would be wearing an Alexander Amosu suit and a bowler hat, carrying a crocodile skin walking stick and puffing at a cigar. He’d probably be carrying .45 inside his suit – you can’t be too careful with these evangelical atheists.



LMAO

https://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120119214504/glee/de/images/5/57/Big_rofl.gif

Deep Sight: I also had a telco with anony and can confirm he makes a strong oral debater. Sadly our reordng of the discussion crashed. We had hoped to post it here.

I hv always been up for meeting new peeps here and have met a few. Puts calm reality to things.

O Plaetton, i disagree with you on meeting Enigma. He is way too sensitive and dogmatic, but i still perceive a very decent guy ovrall.

Anony is a decent guy, no doubt.

truthislight: yea! she sure does have a very good sense of humor.

You are not there because of the criteria "humorous".

If it is ten(10) top "debaters" on NL then that is a diferent thing.

Is there any among the list that you feel your sense of humor superseeds?

Ofcouse if the list is expanded it will accomodat more names.

Let me attempt my top 10 debaters on NL religion section, no, 10 will be very difficult and tight. Say 15 or 20.

No, No, no, lol. It is not going to be an easy thing to do.

This is not as easy as picking for "humor"

the criteria has to be well defined, and the time/duration has to be stated.
I red the post of one Buda Atom, though he is not around in recent time, yet he was good.

So, "top 10"? It cant be exclusive, it Can only be a "favourite" list.

It is good to build ones idea constructively, though it may not be the "fact" at the end of the day.

However, On this, i will list as many a name as possible and definitely "NOT" on a "top" basis, but randomly.

Blablabalabalabalblablbla stop!
@macdady

i cant. If you wish go ahead then.
Bye.

Calm down. I was just pulling your legs.

Your list is okay, we all have our preferences.