₦airaland Forum

donnffd:
I understand you, but let me throw you a scenerio, I am most certain that you believe time is constant,that is,it flows in one direction...Everyone thinks that, atleast 200years ago, Albert Einstein came up with a crazy idea that time can slow down or fasten up, crazy idea but really really true, Evidence supports these but we can never experience this in our everyday life. Now imagine growing up, believing time is linear, and then some dude tells you, no its not, its stretchy...you should find that hard to believe, even hard to comprehend because thats not your world view or what you came to know about reality, but because you see the evidence, you have to believe it...This is not what happens with religion,you have been brought up in a particular faith, you get confronted by someone who has evidence that your view is wrong, but you refuse to believe it because of the deep rooted foundation in your faith... if thats not the height of ignorance, then i dont know what is.

PS: You said your belief is based on truth, i would like to know this truth!!!

menesheh:
You are subjecting faith and believe to be a virtue. You can believe anything for good reason or for bad reason. Justifications as you rightly described, (valid evidence and proof in order to justify your holding a believe as truth) are being misinterpreted by supernatural believers as any personal assumed stuffs one can hold on to, to justify an idea as truth in a very strong way.


In your own case of holding jesus and Paul's views very strongly as a justification for believing in Christian teachings as absolute truth without any chance of it being fallible is misleading. Applying faith as you rightly pointed out in your second paragraph is one of the worst reasons and justifications to holding a believe, not even to a certain degree but absolutely.

Even science that is based on methodological naturalism, evidence, consistency, falsification, peer review, skepticism, proof etc are not 100% absolute on their findings and facts, not minding the irrefutable and mountains of evidence supporting such thesis. Let alone your religious views that are base on faith, went so far as holding its tenets as absolute truth without any chance of it being false.

Tell me any provable justifications why one should hold any belief atall on faith. Let's exclude your religion on this list. Just any other believe system.





- Hinduism requires faith, faith requires belief, and belief requires TRUTH

- Muslims requires faith, faith requires belief, and belief requires TRUTH

-Leprechaunians requires faith, faith requires belief, and belief requires TRUTH


- Believiers of Amadioha requires faith, faith requires
belief, and belief requires TRUTH

- Scientology requires faith, faith requires belief, and belief requires TRUTH

Faith is not only meant to believe Christian teachings but almost every thing that lacks evidence and good justifications to believing, even a yahoo yahoo G that wants to swindle you, you can also go ahead and accept his proposals as truth.

We live our daily life by inference and induction but coming to the religion, we have to suspend evaluation and prove, just accept it. No brother, faith is far from being any reliable justification to hold a believe. Even the least irrelevant ideas, faith can't still survive.

BETATRON:
Nice write up mr-op
But the truth is not every body belief things for a reason,more than 70% of those who accept a particular religion are only in it because their predecessor are in it..not that they had the conviction that it is the correct path to follow

And second is reason,and intellectual debate has left the sphere of religion in the sense that whenever something appears inexplicable in our holy book we shun it instead of question it (why question what is from God)

That's why a lot are atheist today,,the clergy men or the so called scholars are only after superstitious aspect of religion(miracles) forgetting that the world has evolved and now a world of intellect "although these miracles still entice those with poor-sight(ignorant) who don't know what religion is actually all about

May be the church should start by provided intellectual answers to the athiest,and also educate its members on the pillars of religion not mere blowing into knots and performance of magic ,,if not the trend will continue ""my people suffer for the lack of knowledge"

ifeness:
Faith is the absence of knowledge. Faith often lead to death of Christians. OP you claimed Atheist often get it wrong, what have they got wrong so far?

Let's assume the winner of a lottery didn't show up to claim his reward, whom do we give it to? The Gorvernment? And even if we do give it to the Government, it is because the winner didn't bother to show up,which also mean we all know someday he might come for it eventually.

Bottom line is, your unknown God is allowed to take credit for creating the light bulb until Tesla shows up to claim his credit

Ayomivic:
there are alot of leason to be learnt in the story for young mind.
You did not read that story to learn but to find fault that was the reason you did get message correct
the leason learnt in the story are

1 there is no leader in Isreal at that time, no king ,no body to persecute them for sin comitted, so people does not have someone to fear and the tend to work on their own way committing adultery and fornication even when they knew God is against it. These happen when there is religion Let say their is not religion and no leader to make people follow Gods law how do you think this world will look like?

2 the man thaught there was God fearing in Isreal cities that was the reason he did not stop to rest in Jebusite city which he called strange country unknow to him his country too is as worst as others countries

3 it wasn't the man that took life from his wife but those children of balial. The man cuts the woman parts and send it to each tribes of Israel as message (Aroko) to me the man was in sorrowful heart and he was like how can this evil be in Israel the country that belong to God, when he sent the woman's parts to them. They said "what kind of evil is this, this has never happend since Israel have being in existed" and that prompt them to call on the man to explaine why he sent such message to them.Knowing what happened to the man's wife. The elders stood for judgement and asked the tribe of benjamine to produce those children of balial to deal with them according to law of God. If he did not do what he did that atrocity would countinue in Israel.

4 the tribe of Benjamine refused to produce the criminers and that lead to war that almost wip out the tribe of Benjamine among the twelve tribe of Israel

what i can see about the op is that, he did not see the wickedness of the sons of Belial but he want to know the leason learn from the man that divide his already dead woman. One thing i want the You people to know is that God or religion did not tell the man to cut his wife,so i dont see why people put the blame on God or religio but what the man did wake the elders to combat the evil that was going on in their communities and what happened to the tribe of Benjamine was a leason for any tribe that does not caustion their children of such behavious

for those that said the world would be a better place without God. I dont even know why you think in that way but i am without God, the attitudes of sons of Belial is very small in how wicked the people of world would be thanks to God and to religion without religion or God country like Nigeria can never exsist at all because if our culture is to eat stranger how would stranger tell us it not proper? It was religion that brought the people of diffrent cultures together.The christian in Yoruba, Igbo ,Hausa, Spanish etc have the same belief and that was what save us from enslave each tribe.

Anas09:
I don't understand u. Quotes are taken right from ur koran, hadiths and sahih Muslim? How will u say such a thing? R u saying the koran is lying?

bytemeister:
and what exactly do u think "faith"means? bro having faith in something doesn't make that thing rue,it doesn't even make it probably true, it means you'd believe it even if it's not true-as sed by his holiness GURU JOHNNYDON22

ifeness:
It is mind blowing that Christians cannot see how their beloved,pathetic,human degrading religions is fading away. The Christian religion over the years put Ideology over the people,while Humanism have always put the people over Ideology. Christianity and Humanism cannot be fit together despite several tries,despite transplanting lots of good Humanist morals into Christianity. It is exactly like Islam,which happened to have created of one the most retarded humans on the plant(72 virgins in Allah's heaven??) Islam is not really worth mentioning.

A closer look at Christianity. This religion was famously created by the Catholic church.It is power based cult meant to empower the rich and powerful against the poor. An authoritarian secret society that echoes mass abuse of power. Well some people can say..."I'm Baptist or Deeperlife and other protesters who left the Catholic church",but the ideology remains the same,which is to RULE over the poor,take their money in the name of a God,decide how they live their lives and kill or condemn those who oppose them. Oyedepo is typical example of how this evil cult works.

Obviously someone like Kumuyi crafted his own idea but built the structure of his church exactly like the Catholics. He takes lots of money from the poor,he decides how they dress,marry, have sex, what they watch,how often they go to church....and here we have another student of the Roman catholic doing exactly what the Pope does,which is to RULE.

African slavery was justified by Christian Ideology,the Spanish Inquisition was justified by Christian Ideology,witch burning, book burning,genocides(of which majorities were hidden).

Despite the fact that the Roman Catholics rewrote their bible many times,protestants edited their own version to keep up with modern time which gave rise to different sects like the Mormons,Jehovah witness,Deeperlife all which have different ideologies crafted to fit their aims,they all are finding it difficult to keep up as they are not really sticking together.

Presently,only 3 in 10 youth really care about going to church. 5 in 10 only attend the church on Christmas and Easter ceremonies. This goes a long way to show that in 20 years many churches would have become recreational centers,the Vatican however much they try would probably become a museum. Example,in the UK many cathedrals have been converted to primary schools. In my area the only church you will find is a small black church. This black church cannot even be noticed. You can only tell with a small poster on their mail box .

I personally think the gradual demise of one the most powerful cults in the world that have abused power is a call for celebration

Cheers

plaetton:
This where ignorance goes full re.tard.

Here is a guy, pretending that atheism is a competing religion, and then he goes to use Darwin and Darwin's family to make his twisted logic.

The only thing he forgot is that Darwin was never an atheist, talkess of promoting it.
Darwin only discovered certain biological facts previously unknown in his era.
His discoveries and the theories he propounded have withstood 150yrs of rigorous scientific testing, and form the basis of modern biology and genetic sciences.

Secondly, again waxing ignorant , malvisguy212 states that certain (unnamed) European nobles were trying to practice eugenics.

Again, by selective amnesia, he forgot that the said unamed nobles were not atheists, but devout Christians.

Mysteriously, atheism gets the blame.

It seems, like Satan, atheism is the new fall guy for everything that is wrong in Christendom.

donnffd:
Then what is the essence of hell? I tot hell was for punishment

sonOfLucifer:
Malvis, come on man, you can do much better than this. Ask the Holy Spirit for help.

kestolove95:
I was finking I'v gat some one dat we will challenge each oda base on quotes from qur'an and bible but just realise dat u just like everi christian, I wonder what u people even go and study in ur bible classes, go read d bible and d qur'an very well, nd cum bk let's challenge each oda base on quotes not what u posting here

kestolove95:
we not talkin abt marriage nd its not only hausa dat practice islam, but u just sai it, u can never separate dem from d vail or hijab..and b4 dey touch d glorious qur'an dey must purify dem sef nd always on hijab during prayers, wait is dia anytin like purity in christianity?after sex sum of u don't even baff talk more of a spiritual baf, wen a guy had wet dream he hardli baff if he dox, its d normal soap n wata baff, both boys and girls will just stand anywia ease demsefs split urine on dia wears same cloth dey will take into d church, going into d toilet while dey ar holdin d bible...see christianity is a joke...somebody was telling dat I should dobale for Allah and I told him dat even jesus and all d prophets dat came b4 and aftr him also dobale and its dia in d bible...quote me if am wrong let's see who can never b d muslim btwn d christian and d muslim and who is more christian between d muslim and d christian

"And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his
face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be
possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not
as I will, but as thou wilt." - New Testament
(Matthew 26:39)

"And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their
face, and were sore afraid." - New Testament
(Matthew 17:6)
"And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with
him, saying," - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Genesis
17:3)

"Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and
said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that
is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is
ninety years old, bear?" - Old Testament (Tanakh)
(Genesis 17:17)

"And Moses made haste, and bowed his head
toward the earth, and worshiped." - Old Testament
(Tanakh) (Exodus 34:
“And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of
the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the
congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the
glory of the LORD appeared unto them.” - Old
Testament (Tanakh) (Numbers 20:6)

"And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron,
saying, Separate yourselves from among this
congregation, that I may consume them in a
moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O
God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man
sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the
congregation?" - Old Testament (Tanakh) (Numbers
16:20-22)

But u might not knw dix cox all what our generation pastors preach 2day ar riches and prosperity with miracles and words of God but I don't blame dem cox dats what christians wants to hear

aob2882:
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.Exodus 20:2-6
The above verse is telling you that your bowing for worship should be for One God alone.

Reyginus:
I understand the op. But then ideologies are not defined by the myopic interpretation of them but a symmetric alignment existing between it and adherents.

Democracy is simply Government of the people, by the people and for the people. We cannot say we are practising democracy in the past when candidates were imposed on us in this country. In essence, you judge Democracy by its tenets and not how leaders have made it to be.

The same thing applies here. The Christian's life is one built in consistency with that of Christ as established in the new Testament and not the life of Jews in the old testament. For you to be truly spreading or working for Christianity you must be operating on this line.

We need then a direct command in the new life, Christian, in the new testament, promoting mayhem to claim that Christianity is in tandem with the actions of these men.

aob2882:
Muslims follow the Religion OF Jesus; the faith that he spoke of and practiced. Likewise, We worship The same God that he worshipped; The God of Abraham and The God of all of the Prophets whom lived on Earth.

Whereas today some people who claim to follow the way of Jesus, Abraham, and Moses (peace be upon them) have deviated from the path. And in the case of Christianity, people have mistakenly created an entire faith about the Prophet Jesus and thus have made him into something that he never claimed to be.

"Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but an upright Muslim (one who submitted their will to God)." – Qur’an English Translation [3:67]

kestolove95:
Jesus never beat band and dance in holy place, mary never xpos her hair even d one the catholics mould wear hijabs...so I ask, what's wrong with the christians? Why have dey allow d white to modernise dia religion?...I dare any christian to show me one mary's picture without hijab or vail

plaetton:
Obviously, you missed the point.

plaetton:
as well as the big bad monster in our backyards, standing there to make sure we were good little boys and girls.

.

Thoniameek:
Dealing with it. There's something called religion and then there's relationship with God. And no one should mix the two....

sonOfLucifer:
Is God still relevant?

aob2882:
Did you know more than Jesus Christ (peace be upon him)?
did't he (peace be upon him) said that "17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven". Matthew 5:17-19King James Version (KJV)

bytemeister:
Saying evrytn tartar9 quoted are lies makes u hypocritical, both religion claim to preach morality yet d two books contains immorality but truly dat of d muslim is worse,i wonder how y'all stil folow dat criminal mohamed

malvisguy212:
the old testament were part of scripture BUT This does not mean, however,
that everything in the Scriptures
applies to us as law
Through Moses,God gave a law to Israel. We can learn much from that law. But it was never given to the church of Christ as a law.
The purpose of the old testament for christians to learn of God plans:
Romans 15:4
“For whatever things were written
BEFORE were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have
HOPE”
Although the Old and New Testaments together form the Scriptures, the New Covenant SUPERSEDE and REPLACE the Old Covenant.
Here what God say in Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 31:31-34
31
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE PEOPLE OF ISREAL
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will NOT BE LIKE THE COVENANT I MADE WITH THEIR ANCESTORS when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to[ a] them,[b]” declares the Lord.
33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God, and they will be my people.34No longer will they teach their neighbor,or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
This new covenant was fullfiled in the new testament.
When I say " the New Covenant SUPERSEDE the old " this is what I mean.
The ten commandments no longer apply as law because in the doctrine of Christ they are completely superseded. In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus
demands much more of us than the ten commandments. He not only forbids murder and adultery, but also the CAUSE, hate and lust. We are to love God with ALL OUR MIND, if you love God you will keep His commandments, so the key word is LOVE. No wonder Jesus give the TWO great commandments involving love God and your fellow human. So, love for God
and fellowman, not just because there is a command: “You shall not kill”.
Hope you understand now?

bytemeister:
Saying evrytn tartar9 quoted are lies makes u hypocritical, both religion claim to preach morality yet d two books contains immorality but truly dat of d muslim is worse,i wonder how y'all stil folow dat criminal mohamed

tartar9:
let's discuss your terror manual
they can only attack Islam with lies proudly Muslim
see and cover you face with shame;
warning:graphic content

EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows
down Amalek and his people.
EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave
may be beaten to death with no punishment for
the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die
too quickly.
EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side,
and go in and out from gate to gate throughout
the camp, and slay every man his brother, and
every man his companion, and every man his
neighbor.
EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the
Israelites slay 3000 men.
LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if
they are obedient, their enemies will "fall before
your sword."
LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you,
which shall rob you of your children."
LE 26:29 , DT 28:53 , JE 19:9 , EZ 5:8-10 As a
punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the
flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers
and friends.
LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An
example is given in JG 11:30-39 )
NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great
plague.
NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven
days because she and Aaron had spoken against
Moses.
NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had
gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at
the Lord's command.
NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open
and swallow up the men and their households
(including wives and children) because the men
had been rebellious.
NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250
men.
NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700
people.
NU 21:3 The Israelites utterly destroy the
Canaanites.
NU 21:6 Fiery serpents, sent by the Lord, kill
many Israelites.
NU 21:35 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites
slay Og "... and his sons and all his people, until
there was not one survivor left ...."
NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses,
take all the heads of the people, and hang them
up before the Lord against the sun ...."
NU 25:8 "He went after the man of Israel into the
tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of
Israel, and the woman through her belly."
NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the
Lord.
NU 31:9 The Israelites capture Midianite women
and children.
NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's
command, orders the Israelites to kill all the
Midianite male children and "... every woman who
has known man ...." (Note: How would it be
determined which women had known men? One
can only speculate.)
NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the
Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to
be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.
DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men,
women, and children of Sihon.
DT 3:6 The Israelites utterly destroy the men,
women, and children of Og.
DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to
"utterly destroy" and show "no mercy" to those
whom he gives them for defeat.
DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your
hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for
the women, the children, the livestock and
everything else in the city, you may take these as
plunder for yourselves."
DT 20:16 "In the cities of the nations the Lord is
giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive
anything that breathes."
DT 21:10-13 With the Lord's approval, the
Israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women"
from the enemy camp to be their captive wives.
If, after sexual relations, the husband has "no
delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.
DT 28:53 "You will eat the fruit of the womb, the
flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your
God has given you."
JS 1:1-9 , 18 Joshua receives the Lord's blessing
for all the bloody endeavors to follow.
JS 6:21-27 With the Lord's approval, Joshua
destroys the city of Jericho--men, women, and
children--with the edge of the sword.
JS 7:19-26 Achan, his children and his cattle are
stoned to death because Achan had taken a
taboo thing.
JS 8:22-25 With the Lord's approval, Joshua
utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men
and women, so that there were none who
escaped.
JS 10:10-27 With the help of the Lord, Joshua
utterly destroys the Gibeonites.
JS 10:28 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly
destroys the people of Makkedah.
JS 10:30 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly
destroys the Libnahites.
JS 10:32-33 With the Lord's approval, Joshua
utterly destroys the people of Lachish.
JS 10:34-35 With the Lord's approval, Joshua
utterly destroys the Eglonites.
JS 10:36-37 With the Lord's approval, Joshua
utterly destroys the Hebronites.
JS 10:38-39 With the Lord's approval, Joshua
utterly destroys the Debirites.
JS 10:40 (A summary statement.) "So Joshua
defeated the whole land ...; he left none
remaining, but destroyed all that breathed, as the
Lord God of Israel commanded."

kingkaspa:
I am not misinterpreting any Christian faith. The OP never mention any specific religion.

abduljabbar4:
What air did you clear in that stup!d post?

johnydon22:
[b] ^^^^ You see the insecurity of most Christians? My post in no way mentions the Christian faith or any religion in particular and but the idea of theism and the "Argumentum ad ignorantum" fallacy.

But somehow this guy above makes it about Christianity even when it not in the slightest is about it...

That you imagined i was addressing your religion is your own cup of tea and remains figments of your imagination.

This reveals your own insecurity in your own faith because you assuming i was addressing Christianity is not only idiotic but outrightly wrong..

I have always told you the reason why you rarely make sense is that you don't read, you just assume and rush to comment... Now that you have totally laid a comment that is totally different from the Op and have associated the Op with your religion one wouldn't help just seeing yow daft someone can get..

Now read the post again, understand it and modify...

Please people did i address my post on any religion or God? [/b]