₦airaland Forum

GenBuhari:
@Eziachi & Mariory,

I have to say it again!

You and Mariory, by criticising Mugabe appear to be apologists for the "white man".

So sad. We are talking about suffering Africans and how Mugabe treated his own people and here you are concerned about the "white man". Are you in love with Westerners or something? What is this inferiority complex you have? Where did it come from? Was it the slave trade? I just don't get it.

It's like you want your life's worth to be determined by how much you can spite anyone you regard as "white man". Good luck with all that anger.

cap28:
The source i cited was written by stephen gowans who is  an independent foreign journalist from Canada not zimbabwe, the article was subsequently cited in a zimbabwean newspaper, here is another excerpt from another article written by him on another independent news source, he is a white canadian and has no vested interests in defending mugabe, here is his analysis:

Who the f$$k is Stephen Gowan?

I will humour you and Stephen Gowan though and analyse your post.

cap28:
Zimbabwe’s economy, like that of any other Third World country, was never robust to begin with, and inasmuch as it has always relied heavily on Western inputs and access to Western exports, was never too difficult to push into crisis by Western governments intent on making a point. To pretend Washington, London and Brussels haven’t sought to sabotage Zimbabwe’s economy, or are incapable of it, is absurd. ZDERA effectively reduces Zimbabwe’s access to the foreign exchange it needs to import necessities from abroad, including chemicals to treat drinking water, a significant point in the recent cholera outbreak. Development aid from the World Bank is also cut off, denying the country access to funds to build and repair the infrastructure needed to run a modern economy. [b]Rather than banning the export of goods to Zimbabwe (the popular understanding of sanctions), the US has made importing goods a challenge. This doesn’t mean that Zimbabwe can’t import goods, or that there is no outside investment. What it does mean, however, is that Zimbabwe is denied access to the kind of financial support poor countries depend on to get by. The intended effect is to make Zimbabwe’s economy scream, and it has.

Your own supporting material tells us that economic trade was not targetted by sanctions. All you have posted supports my previous assement that the US and EU sanctions only restricted the obtaining of credit from international lenders (as pointed out by the bolded section above). So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

cap28:
This is why i asked you in my previous post whether you start in the middle or at the beginning when trying to trace the genesis of a problem.  You obviously prefer to start in the middle rather than the beginning.

Did Zimbabwe's problems with starvation just occur out of the blue?  How can you start analysing Zimbabwe's problems from the year 2000 after implementation of sanctions by the west?  Did Zimbabwe not exist prior to this period?  Like i said I can't take you seriously because your mind is so narrow, you are incapable of tracing the actual cause of this problem instead you keep parrotting what youve read in the western press.

No your problem is you don't seem to reliase that Zimbabwe existed before ZDERA in 2001 and are therefore clueless as to the state of it's economy long before the US and EU sanctions. Instead of "parrotting" what Stephen Gowon tells you, I suggest you get aquainted with Zimbabwe's economic history. Here's a link to start you off. Please feel free to research your own "non western press" links. Perhaps Steven Gowon can give you a history lesson. *rolleyes*
http://www.eisa.org.za/WEP/zimoverview5.htm

cap28:
Okay to answer your question about the issue of starvation - first of all Zimbabwe has historically suffered from droughts - this has adversely affected its agricultural outuput, in the past this problem was addressed by stockpiling maize which would then be used to tide the country over , this option is no longer available because much of this stockpiled maize was sold off in order to pay off outstanding debts owed to the IMF and world bank.

Prior to the imposition of sanctions Zimbabwe could have imported maize using its credit facilities -however these have since been frozen by western financial institutions.

Secondly Zimbabwe like many other african nations has been a victim of falling commodity prices - this means that it gets less for its exports compared to what it used to when prices were higher, this factor combined with the west's bllocking of its acces to  credit facilities has left it in a situation where it has less revenue available to import food. 

Thirdly many of the white farmers who were forced to give up their land decided to destroy their farming machinery rather than leave it behind, some who still had possession of their farms decided to stop producing crops to show their allegiance for the white imperialists.

Finally  zimbabwe was forced to to keep servicing the loans it borrowed from the IMF and world bank, it was forced to cut spending on public services and devalue its currency all these factors left the govt with very little revenue - the overall knock on effect eventually resulted in food shortages and now starvation of the masses.

I really don't have time to start disproving all that you wrote up there. Filled with blatant lies and falsehood. When was Zimbabwe's last drought before the food crisis? Where did the reserves go for over a decade since 2001? Why can't the reserves be built back up? Your attempt to blame farmers (both old and new) is seriously retarded. The blame for it falls directly with Mugabe and his advisers. If only he had been more sensible but, he's behaviour was and is typical of a dictator. An 86 year old in power for over 30 years. Isn't this what we are complaining about in Nigeria?

cap28:
I dont know if your aware of this but Zimbabwe is still subject to economic sanctions which i already highlighted in my previous post, I stated that Obama actually extended the sanctions imposed under Bush's administration which also affect trade between Zimbabwe and the EU, therefore since the EU is still adhering to the restrictions as laid out under ZDERA I am in no doubt that the volume of trade between Zimbabwe and the EU is almost non existent hence the ongoing hardship suffered by Zimbabweans.

Zimbabwe is NOT under economic sanctions.

Official foreign trade figures between Zimbabwe and the US from 1992-2010
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c7960.html

Official foreign trade figures between Zimbabwe and South Africa from 1992-2010
http://www.dti.gov.za/econdb/raportt/R100162.html
http://www.dti.gov.za/econdb/raportt/r100162.jpg(graph)

cap28:
Sad and pathetic are adjectives i would prefer to use in describing your very biased and one sided argument, in determining the root cause of a problem do you start in the middle or at the beginning?

You have selectively picked out quotations from mainstream western newspapers that incidentally are owned by the same multinationals who have vested economic interests in africa as the basis for your argument and you expect people to take you seriously.

There are always two sides to a story but it seems in your case that basic principle does not apply as you prefer to limit your argument to the white man's version of events.

The one question that you should be asking your self is this: why is it that Zimbabwe's economic problems only started the minute Mugabe announced that he was going to commence an accelerated land reform programme and return acres of stolen land to its rightful owners?

Dont you find it strangely coincidental that the minute the land reform started the west began to impose economic sanctions?

You regurgigate all the propaganda about starvation and disease fed to you by the western press but you forgot to find out what the root cause of that starvation and disease is - have you even bothered to research the role that america played in bringing about the economic collapse of zimbabwe? Have you heard of a piece of legisltation enacted by the US congress known as ZIDERA ?  - do you understand the consequences of this legislation, do you understand that zimbabwe's access to credit was frozen? do you understand that zimbabwe was asked to pay off loans worth millions of dollars that it borrowed from the IMF  within 48 hours just to punish it and wipe out its foreign reserves? 
do you understand that all lines of international credit that zimbabwe applied for were vetoed and blocked using this legislation, do you understand that all balance of payments support from international lending institutions was blocked and vetoed by the EU, britain and america?

One of the major backers of this legislation was a right wing american senator by the name of Jesse Helms - he opposed the Civil rights Act of 1964 which gave black americans the right to vote, it was also co sponsored by Hillary Clinton (current secretary of state) and Joe Biden (current vice president)

In addition former US president George Bush Jnr banned US companies from doing business with all of zimbabwe's major corporations and froze the assets of Zimbabwean companies with branches in europe or the US.

When Obama took over he renwed all previous economic sanctions.

Dont you ask yourself why america and europe are taking such a draconian stand against Zimbabwe, they have crushed and clamped down on a country that sought to do what many south east asian economies were permitted to do ie becomes masters of their own political and economic destinies but instead of being given the leeway to develop as was the case with south korea, malyasia, singapore and japan they have instead faced economic isolation, intimidation and threats of military attack.

I would advise you to learn how to research issues using unbiased one side sources that way you will learn the truth but if you carry on down this your one sided route relying totally on western propaganda you will continue to spout these ignorant and confused diatribes on NL- a word is enough for the wise.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200907220470.html

Stop being moronic please. I really don't know why some of you reason the way you do.  So you have gone ahead and posted an article written by the government of Zimbabwe (The Herald: http://www.herald.co.zw/index.php). Then you turn around and tell me I am posting Western porpaganda.

Second of all, the article was discussing the Zimbabwe economy. In typical clueless style you are blinded by your anti-west ideology that you have ignored the fact that I was discussing starvation (Lack of food) of Zimbabweans not Americans or Europeans. A direct result of there being a distinct lack of harvested crops which have absolutely nothing to do with obtaining credit from international lenders. Do you reliase that before Mugabe lost the plot, Zimbabwe was able to feed itself? Now it relies on food donation and it has to import maize when it used to be a net exporter. This has nothing to do with the sanctions in question. I mean seriously, what is wrong with you?

Since you brought up sanctions and the economy, here is a question for you. What was the amount of trade between Zimbabwe and the EU during the sanctions?

GenBuhari:
Listen to yourself, if you are black have bought into slave mentality hook, line and sinker - to extent that you are now sounding like an apologist for the "white man".

And you have the audacity to call people pathetic?

I hail Mugabe for he fought the "white man" and won his independence.

He has refused to dance to their tune.

This make Mugabe a hero of the highest magnitude.

I have a feeling you are a white man yourself,  are you?

I notice you didn't address any of the points. All those African dictatorships I mentioned, are they also "western" propaganda? Who are the people that bore the brunt of those dictatorships? Was it the "white man" or the "black man"? What you are displaying is the typical mindset of an extremist. You call me an apologist for the "white man"? I have no idea how you have come to that conclusion. The stupidity of it is that you are living away from the hunger in the UK. The land of the colonailist. I suspect you would not step foot in Zimbabwe if you can help it. Nah, you truely are pathetic.

It is always fellow Africans that suffer. In Sudan where the government is "sticking it" to the "white man", it is fellow Africans that are suffering. Mugabe might be a hero to you but, he is no different to Mubarak, Abacha, Idi Amin, Charles Taylor, and all the other African dictators.

GenBuhari:
Mariory,
Don't you get it?

Mugabe is a hero because he is only African leader in history to have stood up to his former colonial masters and survived.

You have bought into western propaganda , you must learn to think independently of news that is fed to you.

Post all the links you want but i doesn't change fact that any starvation is directly atributable to western sanctions and polices and not down to Mugabe.

Shine your eyes.

So sad and pathetic. This is what you and like minded individuals have been reduced to. The suffering of your fellow Africans is justified in order to satisfy an illogical view of "sticking it" to the "white man". I guess the white man was the one queing for bread. The white man was the one competing with animals for plant roots. The white man was the one eating ants. The white man was the one dying of starvation.

So sad and pathetic. Abacha also "stood up" to the "white man". Idi Amin also "stood up" to the "white man". Boko Haram (s/p) also "stands up" to the "white man". Charles Taylor also "stood up" to the white man. Even apertheid South Africa "stood up" to the "white man". The foolishness and idoicy with this way of reasoing is very obvious.

Soon our thieving leaders will start "standing up" to the "white man" and in so doing will become African heros right?

And we wonder why Africa is so backwards. I find it remarkable that there are people here trying to defend Mugabe's policies. One can only hope that you are subjected to the same starvation that millions of Zimbabweans suffered under Mugabe's policies. One can only hope.

Mugabe a true hero indeed

Zimbabwe – Katy Phiri who is in her 70s, picks up single corn kernels spilled from trucks that ferry the harvest to market. She says she hasn't eaten for three days. Rebecca Chipika, a child of 9, prods a stick into a termite mound to draw out insects. She sweeps them into a bag for her family's evening meal. These scenes from a food catastrophe are unfolding in Doma, a district of rural Zimbabwe where journalists rarely venture.
. . .

http://newzimsituation.com/starving-zimbabweans-eat-termites-to-beat-food-sho-7818.htm

Ten 30-tonne vehicles carrying private imports of the staple maize meal at the Zimbabwean side of the Beit Bridge border post were besieged by hundreds of Zimbabweans desperate for something to eat. Witnesses said that the crowd ripped the stolen bags open to stuff the uncooked cereal into their mouths.
. . .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/3453631/Starving-Zimbabweans-raid-food-lorries.html

Zava said he has seen villagers plucking undigested corn kernels from cow dung to wash and eat. A slaughtered goat is eaten down to everything but hooves, bones and teeth. Crickets, cicadas and beetles also can make a meal.

The food crisis began after 2000, when Mugabe launched an often violent campaign to seize white-owned farms and give them to veterans of his guerrilla war against white rule over the former British colony.

Officials from Mugabe's party toured the Doma district recently and told the new farm owners that the government could not supply their needs. They were advised to make do with what seed they had left, and with animal manure for fertilizer.

. . .

http://www.zimafricanews.com/index.php?page=newsDetails&articleId=105

Zimbabwe's bakeries have shut and supermarkets have warned there will be no bread for the foreseeable future as the government admitted that wheat production had collapsed following the seizure of white-owned farms.

The agricultural ministry announcement that the wheat harvest is only about a third of what is required, and that imports are held up by lack of hard currency, came as a deadline passed today for the last white farmers to leave their land or face prosecution for trespass.

. . .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/oct/01/zimbabwe.chrismcgreal

The state Sunday Mail, a government mouthpiece, said the National Prices and Incomes Commission allowed the bread price to increase to Zimbabwe dollars 100,000 (US 20 cents, euro 14 cents at the dominant black market exchange rate) Friday as part of a review to help businesses remain viable.

The rise came after the government slashed the price of bread by more than a half in June aimed at fighting the world’s highest official inflation.

. . .

http://www.dzimba.com/index.php/no-bread-available-in-zimbabwe-despite-300-percent-price-hike/

Children in Zimbabwe are fainting at school from hunger – well at least in the schools where there are teachers. The cost of travelling to their job and buying lunch is often too much for their small salaries.

At home, mum or dad might skip a meal or two so there’s enough left for the children. That’s if mum and dad are still around. Zimbabwe has the greatest number of AIDS orphans per capita in the world.
. . .

http://www.caritas.org/activities/emergencies/ZimbabweSlowFoodStory.html

Jen33:
SO THE USA THINKS IT'S OK FOR MUBARAK TO RULE FOR 30 YEARS?


Why then are they so desperate to oust GBAGBO of Ivory Coast,  who has been there less than 10 years?

US Vice President Joe Biden even stated yesterday: 'Mubarak is not a dictator'!!

Oh he just got voted in legitimately by an adoring public for 30 years straight, right Joe?

Biden in response to the question, ''Should Mubarak step down?'' answered: ''No''.

Despite the fact Mubarak has rigged every election in his 30 years in power.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2011/0127/Joe-Biden-says-Egypt-s-Mubarak-no-dictator-he-shouldn-t-step-down

DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS

Or should I say, United States of Double Standards

So Jen33, how does the double standard apply to you and your Mugabe thread? ( https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-592125.0.html )

Mugabe has been the dictator charge of Zimbabwe for almost 31 years. The irony of this thread is nauseating.

Are you folks really this dim? If a party has no candidate, then the party is not included on the corresponding ballot papers. Is that so hard to understand? Surely being on this forum, you can already read and write.

ROSSIKE:
Ibime said:

You're wrong.

Racial profiling is racist, and it is NOT OKAY to say blacks can be stopped and searched disproportionately to others, while brainless imbeciles like you support this.

Is it also racist for black cops to search other blacks?

barnabasj:
http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/National/Economy/5664932-146/story.csp


The Financial Time of London reports that major investors are snubbing Nigeria’s Euro bond which debuts today.

According to the report, investors are concerned at the way funds in the Excess Crude Account have been utilised. ‘’ Mounting concern about a huge outflow of money from Nigeria’s “rainy day” oil fund has prompted some big investors to shun the country’s debut international bond issue on Friday’’, says the paper.

The excess crude account is an anomaly that should not exist. Our emergency funds are in the foreign reserves. This excess crude account crap should be stopped. Give the states any excess oil money or re-invest it.

How about a few pics of what Allen looks like now?

Switzerland says it has frozen all the assets held there by Ivory Coast's disputed leader Laurent Gbagbo.

The foreign minister said the move would prevent Switzerland's financial centre from serving as a refuge for any possible "illegally-obtained assets own by Gbagbo and his entourage".

Mr Gbagbo is refusing to hand over power to Alassane Ouattara, widely seen as the winner of November's elections.

Latest mediation efforts ended with no breakthrough, Kenya's PM said.

. . .

Shouldn't his asserts be in Ivory Coast?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12229788

If they are dumb enough to run windows systems for their nuclear programme or allow removable drives into their 'internal' secure area, then they deserve everything they get.

There is no plausible reason that can be so important as to allow an outside 'medium' access into a secure networked area. These are basics in network security.

Ibime:
No be only passive.

Is it any wonder you always have problems with cops when you adopt an aggressive attitude?

Nigerian cops taught me not to get too jumpy when rifles are off safety. I learnt all my pacifism in Nigeria.

Too right!

And they say education in Nigeria is in decline.

Missy85:
this guy needs to do better than give us an underwhelming cut & paste job from the internet.

his is a laughable high-school level material.

as much as we want to know what he  will do, he must also tell us HOW he will achieve these things. He's had months to prepare and I expected he would be making some BIG & captivating speeches on those blue-ribbon issues such as power, security, the economy etc over the coming months. This is not a good start.  

Gej's reform agenda for Phcn is vastly superior in content, detail,  and direction.

Take it easy. It says on the website that the pdf document is a summary.

asha 80:
actually tunisians are still roiting because they believe that the new unity government is the toppled government is disguise.some of the ministers who signed  up for this new unity government there have resigned today because of the continued protest.

Forget rioting. I'm talking about food scarcity, looting, armed banditry, and armed confrontation between different factions of what government is currently left.

ShangoThor:
After the events that sparked the upheaval in Tunisia, apparently there have been 2 cases of men setting themselves on fire in Egypt. The second man in Egypt did it earlier on today ,  (see link below).

Will this emerging trend prove to be an effective tool to force meaningful change in Nigeria?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12214090

Forget Egypt for a second. What change has actually happened in Tunisia? That country is very close to total chaos right now. Those clamouring for "revolution" should take a close look at events in Tunisia. Apply that to Nigeria (with our tribal and religious issues) and what you will have is hell on Earth.

'Life is wasted on the living'

Must you reatards constantly fill the politics section with this Yoruba-vs-Igbo drivel? Don't you people have lives?

Kobojunkie:
What in that did you not comprehend?

Relevance! The part where the PDP zoning issue is relevant to ACN and this thread. That's what is incomprehensible.

I blame encyclopediadramatica.com

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=585185.msg7527648#msg7527648 date=1294960157]DO NOT click the link this b@stard posted. You'll regret it. Hover your mouse over the link and see that it is fake (to some nastly site called octopusgirl.com)[/quote]Could be worse. Could have been 'Two girls one cup'.

@Moderators

Sticky this thread darn it!

frosbel:
So your reliance is on OIL, OIL, OIL  

With all the OIL, no jobs, no roads, no stable power etc etc etc.

Oh, and by the way, what happens when the OIL finishes ?

Did you read my comment? Here is my quote. I will help you out by including emphasis this time. Please try again.

Mariory:
Sorry but, this is pure and utter rubbish! Nigeria remains the biggest destination of FDIs in West Africa and one of the biggest in the whole of Africa second only to South Africa. In the Oil sector alone, Nigeria blows away all countries in West Africa and most countries in Africa in total FDI inflows. And that's only the oil sector. How on earth did you arrive at that statement you made?

Kobojunkie:
For those anti-zoning advocates, notice that all the ACN presidential candidates are Northerners!

Did the ACN stop anyone from running? Did they go to court to disqualify anyone based on a gentleman's arrangement? Basically what is your point?

frosbel:
Cry because ,almost all nations of interest worldwide have concluded that Nigeria has failed, is not stable for business ,and therefore have diverted their investments away to previously less significant countries like Ghana.

If that does not make you cry , I do not know what will

Sorry but, this is pure and utter rubbish! Nigeria remains the biggest destination of FDIs in West Africa and one of the biggest in the whole of Africa second only to South Africa. In the Oil sector alone, Nigeria blows away all countries in West Africa and most countries in Africa in total FDI inflows. And that's only the oil sector. How on earth did you arrive at that statement you made?

maimalari:
For me, the level of insecurity in the country was demonstrated at the eagle square during the PDP national convention. It is alarming to provide a staggering 40000 personnel in and around the eagle square for the security of about 3500 pdp delegates. This indices means a ratio of approximately 12 security personnel to one delegate. Those comprising the security personnel include but not limited to 17000 police, 5000 soldiers, 5000 road safety officials,3500 manOwar, 2500 SSS and about 7000 civil defence corps.
What this means is that for 150millions nigerians to be really secure, about 2.0 billion security personnel ought to be in place. This sounds sooooo ridiculous.

Perhaps you didn't notice the president of the country was at the same location? Perhaps one could deduce that the tight security in view of the recent loss of life in Abuja due to explosives was for the pesident and not PDP delegates. Maybe just maybe that was the point behind the heavy security?

Pray tell please, where did you come up with the figure of 40,000 personnel. I find that really really hard to believe.

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=585490.msg7531075#msg7531075 date=1295005075]seconded [/quote]Oh no! ROFL!

~Bluetooth have mercy. That man could be someone's father. Imagine the shame you have caused that family.

Interesting. This is reuters snapshot of the elections.

. . .

Thursday's vote, seen as a litmus test ahead of nationwide polls in April, passed without serious unrest, although there were isolated acts of sabotage. (Reporting by Samuel Tife; writing by Joe Brock; editing by Andrew Dobbie)

http://af.reuters.com/article/nigeriaNews/idAFLDE70605320110107

qblaze:
I bet he can't get it up.

Viagra. . .the little blue wonder.