₦airaland Forum

richardbelt: I wonder why it is the case that, pastors rememba the old testament wen its tym to collect tithe......

Simple answer... it benefits them.

HIV1: The problem about tithing arises as a result of intellectual laziness on the part of most cristhians. Most of them rely on their corrupt pastors to interprete gospel to them. Many of them are moorons .
God commanded a tribe out of 12 tribes of Israelite to be working in the house of God. Because a whole tribe was not working to make ends meet , God then commanded the remaining eleven tribes to be contributing one tenth of their income to the house of the lord so that the remaing one tribe which definitely will be multitude can survive. The analogy is that if the whole of yorubas are working in the house of the lord and God commanded Hausas and Ibos to be contributing one third of their income so that the whole of yorubas can be surviving , does that means in the future people should then be contributing one third of their income to one person And what do we have today , millions of people accummulating wealth for one person. Pastors are going to hell except they repent because they have done worse even more than the pharisees.

Actually, the remaining tribes were NOT commanded to tithe to the house of the Lord.

They were commanded to take their tithes, which were strictly agricultural, to the Levite. The Levite, in turn, was supposed to take a tithe of the tithe to the house of the Lord. That's right... of all Israel's produce, only 1% went to the house of God, not 10%.

Read Numbers 18:21,24,26,28 & Nenemiah 10:37-38

okotv: Christians are commanded to pay tithes but the way the money is been spent is the reason for arguement...yours is to pay and its up to God to know what he wants to use to reward you and all those who use logic for spiritual things...you are on a long thing

Where does the Bible command Christians to tithe?

I'll stick with what the Word says.

phadat: tithing is not negotiable hence he who has hear let him hear, like give or don't but my bible tells me I must tithe I don't know about yours

Which Bible are you reading? Care to share the verse that tells you you are to tithe?

winner01: genesis 14:20 And blessed be God Most High, who has
delivered your enemies into your hand!” And
Abram gave him a tenth of everything. And I guess this is also agricultural produce.... Your heresy teaching is clear. Luke 18:22 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I
get... this one too na agricultural produce abi....haggai 2:8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, declares
the Lord of hosts
Amos 4:4 “Come to Bethel, and transgress; to Gilgal, and
multiply transgression; bring your sacrifices
every morning, your tithes every three days;
Your devlish campaign has no effect on true christians....Your predecessors have tried worse things and failed, ....the walk with God is personal, I can choose to give in naira, agric, PRIVATE JET to the house of God or just anything I can use to move Gods words to the ends of the earth...and like I said earlier, you, satan and any other creation can't do anything about it.

Abram did tithe before the Law. But what did he tithe? His own property? Nay! He tithed the property of Bera the king of Sodom.

Also, Abram's tithe was descriptive, not prescriptive. The Word of the Lord does not say man was to imitate Abram's tithe. Even if it dies, it ould be a tithe only of war spoils that the victor of the war had already determined that he would not claim any of those spoils as his own property... as was the case with Abram.

Amos 4:4 is speaking of the tithe of Deuteronomy `14:28-29 & Deuteronomy 26:12... tithes commanded in the Law... agricultural tithes.

Nice try, but again you fail miserably.

I don't try to do anything about your giving. But if you teach that others are supposed to tithe, and I read it, I will point out the fallacy of your words. And I will use Scripture to do so.

winner01: in your devlish campaign against tithes and giving to the house of God, you people delibrately ignore the story of mark 12:44...that is where your naira comes up, even from a poor woman who choose to give to the house of God, than to give to a poor fellow that she was...As long as God blesses me, I will continue to give to the house of God, sow into the lives of the men of God,give and help the needy,..and its soo sad there is nothing you and your kind can do about, satan himself can't do anythn about it...so hate, mock, ridicule the scriptures.....nice try, better luck next time.

Actually, since the doctrine i teach is in perfect agreement with what the Word of God says, my campaign is not "devilish."

Further, since your doctrine teaches a campaign that is contrary to what God's Word teaches, it is your campaign that is proven to be the "devilish" campaign.

The poor woman in Mark 12, (repeated in Luke 21:1-4) was not tithing. She was giving a free will offering. She put mites into the treasury... coins. The Law said that coins could not be tithed. The Law said that only agricultural products could be tithed.

Leviticus 27:30-33 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Deuteronomy 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

Coins could not be tithed. Man could not do what seemed right in his own eyes. God said the tithe was agricultural. It was agricultural.

Nice try... better luck next time.

Extortion: The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.

Spanning from 1959 to 1963, Robert Stack starred as Federal Agent Eliot Ness in the United States TV series “The Untouchables”.

Eliot Ness worked hard at cleaning up the streets of Chicago, ILL after the city was infiltrated by many crime bosses who would extort money from store owners using strongarm tactics, threats, and often gunplay and murder.

Extortion was a serious offense and carried a stiff sentence in the Federal Penitentiary if one was convicted of it. Eliot Ness did not go easy on those who tried to extort money from the citizens of Chicago using scare tactics.

Today, we can glean from the many episodes of “The Untouchables” an important spiritual truth. That truth is, just as crime bosses answered to Eliot Ness for their misdeeds, those who offend God’s children will also one day answer to God.

Many a pastor today stood behind a pulpit and preached a message that was meant to extort money from their congregation through a sermon that was “under color of official right”

That message is taken from Malachi 3:8-10…. “Will A Man Rob God?”

Many a pastor had his congregation open their Bibles to Malachi 3:8-10 and read the passage that chapter 1 reveals was to the children of Israel. They then try to bring the letter to Israel out of Israel and into their city or town in their own country.

They preach to their congregation that they are “robbing God” because they are not bringing the tithe of their income to the house of God.
The pastor continues to inform his congregation that if they do not begin to tithe their money, God will attack their finances, their home, their families, their health, their jobs, their vehicles; the list could go on and on.

Friends, that message they are presenting fits the legal system’s definition of extortion. They are trying to instill fear into your mind, fear of disaster, if you don’t get protection.

They then tell you how to get protection… pay 10% of your income to God! Friends, that is extortion through and through.

They preach the message of a 10% tithe “under color of official right,” but if one studies out the specifics of God’s Holy tithe, one will discover that they have no “official right” to collect a tithe from their congregation.

The tithe was limited to within the boundaries of national Israel and was to be given to the Levites who were living in 48 cities. It was never authorized to the New Testament Church.
God’s tithe was also never money according to Leviticus 27 and Numbers 18.

Shame on those pastors who are guilty of extorting money from their flock! They one day will answer to God for handling His Word deceitfully and oppressing His people with fear tactics under the guise of “official right.”

Friends, God’s Holy Word tells us in 2 Corinthians 9:7 that we are to give as we purpose in our own hearts to give. A tithe does not allow one to purpose what they will give. A tithe is a set amount…10%. How is one purposing in one’s own heart what to give if he is giving 10% because his pastor told him that is what he is supposed to give? The fact is, giving what your pastor determines is nothing more than giving of compulsion… giving because you have to.

Notice 2 Corinthians 9:7…

2 Corinthians 9:7 (KJV) Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

The word “purposeth” is translated from the Greek word “proaireomai”, and it means “to choose for oneself”. A pastor has no “official right” to tell his congregation to give 10% of their money to the Church. God’s Word tells the congregation to “choose for oneself” what one wants to give. God did not tell that pastor to preach to his congregation that they must tithe their money. Nor did he tell that pastor that the congregation would be cursed if they didn’t tithe their money.

Friends, give to the Church. The Church does need money to pay for electricity, sanitation, etc.. But give what you choose for yourself to give, not what someone else tells you you must give. If you are giving a set amount because you have been told by your pastor to give that amount, then you are not giving according to God’s instructions.

winner01: you said so, and my Bible tells me something else, I'm thinking about who I should belief...I choose my Bible over a skunk.

Where does your Bible tell you that God requires you to tithe your Naira? Can you post the verse?

Umunede: Jesus said in Matt 23:23 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin and have ommitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy and faith: these ought ye to have done and not to leave the other undone.". Clearly, Jesus didn't condemn paying of tithe. Why are we condemning what Jesus didn't condemn. Paying of tithe is only one of many things expected of a christian as we see in the verse.

Wrong! Jesus was telling the Pharisees in Israel that they were to tithe. And what they were to tithe was exactly what they were tithing... mint, anise, cummin... garden produce.

Christians are not required to tithe their money to the Church.

Scyllapatron: if the entire wealth belong to your broke ass jewish deity, why does he demand 10% of my salary? he must be so greedy and discontented.....

God does not demand 1/10th of anyone's income. He never did in His Word, He doesn't today. He does not, and will not tell man to do something that contradicts His written Word.

His Word says,

2 Corinthians 9:6-7 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

The above verses reveal that God does not dictate the amount we are to give. He said we are to choose ourselves what we want to give.

Elsewhere, He said,

2 Corinthians 8:12-13 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:

God's Word says our giving should not put us in financial stress while others lives are made easier. Quite contrary to what the Pastors are teaching, eh? God wants you to live within your means. The pastors want you to give even if it causes you to lack necessities.

Do not sneer at the true God. He is not as these pastors paint him to be. It is their wicked and deceitful actions that are against your living comfortably, not God's.

ogbronx: I am impressed. These things aren't revealed to you because you are smart, its God's Spirit that reveals truth of the bible to you. Many Christians don't know their faith or really understand grace and find it difficult to explain to pple from other religions and atheist thus making them look like blind pple. Keep this up bro and may God in His infinite wisdom reveal more to you.

Thank you.

Many here on Nairaland Forums know me. They know that I am physically blind. I walk with a cane, read and write braille, listen to web pages, etc..

But I thank God that He, in His infinite wisdom, chose to save me and to reveal to me these truths that I post. I may walk in shadows here, but Jesus' Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path.

Gofwane: Dis thread is giving me mixd feelings o... I bn wan pay tithe 2day, bt e be lyk say i no do again o.

Contrary to the OP's claim, you will not be robbing God if you do not tithe.

However, if you are bypassing a poor person while on your way to a well-to-do Church so you can drop Naira in the offering plate, you are robbing God.

Inasmuch as ye did it not unto the least of these my brethren, ye did it not unto me -- words of Jesus

The monetary tithe requirement doctrine was never instructed by, nor commanded by, God. It is the invention of man.

Psalms 106:39 Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions.

snadguy007: That means its advisable to tithe with agricultural contents and to give it to the 'less priviledges'. Noted.

But you've not answered my question on why i should stop paying tithe either financially or with agricultural contents cos some comments above me are against it

Blessings.

Another good reason to stop tithing is because of what the Apostle Paul told the Christian Gentiles in Galatia...

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

If you are going to submit to the Mosaic Law of tithing, then, according to the above verse you are required to keep the whole Law or be under a curse.

Also, for one who is married to Christ Jesus to submit to the Law is equivalent to that one committing spiritual adultery. (do you really want to be seen as an adulterer?) How can I say this, one may ask? Because the Apostle Paul taught it.

Romans 7:1-4 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Note in the first few verses that Paul shows how a woman married but going to live with another man is adultery. He then reveals that we, as the Bride of Christ have no business going to the house of the Law.

snadguy007: All i see here is criticism and frustruation among some peeps


Someone should just tell me why i should stop paying my tithes

One good reason? James 2:10

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The only tithes God ever commanded in His Word are tithes of agricultural content. Leviticus 27:30-33; Deuteronomy 12:5-7; 14:22-29

He said that his tithe was to be given to the Levites, the widows, the orphans and the strangers in Israel.

It is obvious that, if you are tithing your money You are offending in one point of the Law which said tithes were to be agricultural.
It is obvious that, if you are tithing to an entity other than those whom God authorized to receive tithes in His Word, you are offending in one point of the Law.

In short, your attempt to do what seems right in your own eyes is offensive to God. If you are going to submit to the Law, it is best you keep the Law without being an offense, eh?

adexsimply: Then why is he demanding for 1/10 of my small income now? That's wickedness !!!

God does not demand 1/10th of your income. It is a wicked and deceitful man who demands that money. In our Bibles, God only commanded tithes of gardens, orchards, and livestock. He never told man to tithe money.

Keep your Naira. Use it for famly needs. If you have extra and want to be charitable, help a beggar on the road, a widow who is struggling, an orphan who needs food or clothing. God will be more pleased.

Inasmuch as ye did it unto the least of these my brethren, ye did it unto me. -- words of Jesus

charlsecy: @Kenny4lyfe, I would love it if you respond to my comment after reading it.

Let me quote Hebrews 7:5 CEB:

"The descendants of Levi who receive the office of priest HAVE A COMMANDMENT UNDER THE LAW to collect a tenth of everything from the people who are their brothers and sisters, though they also are descended from Abraham."

It is important we ask ourselves if Believers are UNDER THE LAW?

If a Christian willingly decides to be giving 10% or more of his income for the Gospel, no problem. However, I must stress that the concept of tithe, as taught and understood by many Christians today, is a big lie.

Leviticus 27:30-33 shows there was a penalty for wanting to pay tithe in form of money. You paid extra. It's discouraged and even not permitted for animal rearers. Perhaps, paying with money defeated one of the purposes of tithing. How could the poor feed from the tithes? How could one eat money? (Deut.14:22-26; Deut. 12:5-7). Or, have you been lied to that beggars and the needy cannot share in your tithe, that it's all for your "pastors?"

Before I continue, let me state that Abraham tithed from spoils of war. He went to war and paid tithe on the spoils he recovered. There is no where in the Bible where Abraham tithed on his personal property.

1. Tithes consisted of food and animals ONLY. "Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, THAT THERE MAY BE FOOD in my house..." Malachi 3:10 ESV. Only natural produce was given as tithe, NEVER money. If you read Deuteronomy 14:22-29, you will discover money was in circulation, so it's not a question of money didn't exist at that time. It was SPECIFICALLY UNDERSTOOD that you couldn't give money as tithe, ESPECIALLY FOR ANIMAL REARERS. Please read Deuteronomy 14:22-29 and Leviticus 27:30-33.

2. If you study Leviticus 27:30-32, it seems only the owners of farms and flocks tithed.

3. There was an annual tithe for the maintenance of the Levites (Lev. 27:30; Num. 18:21).

4. People ate from their tithes. A second tithe brought to Jerusalem for the Lord’s feasts (Deut. 14:22-26; Deut. 12:5-7). This tithe must be consumed before the Lord. ALL ATE portions of this tithe. [How does one eat money?]

5. Tithes could be given out to the needy. Every third year, the second tithe was kept at home for the Levites, the poor and the needy (Deut. 14:27-29). Have you ever heard pastors saying you cannot share your tithe with the beggarly?

Food for thought >>>>

A. WHY DO MODERN-DAY CHURCHES EMPHASIZE ONLY ONE TYPE OF TITHE, AND EVEN CORRUPTED IT, LEAVING OUT THE OTHERS? FOR EXAMPLE, THERE IS A TYPE OF TITHE DONE ONCE EVERY 3 YEARS WHICH CAN BE FOUND IN DEUTERONOMY 26:12. THIS FORM INVOLVES GIVING ALSO TO "FOREIGNERS, ORPHANS, AND WIDOWS..." WHY ARE MODERN-DAY PREACHERS NOT IMPLEMENTING THIS ONE?

B. WHY IS MODERN-DAY TITHE IN FORM OF MONEY, WHILE IT'S CLEAR FROM THE SCRIPTURES THE ISRAELITES TITHED OF THEIR CROPS AND ANIMALS ONLY, EVEN THOUGH MONEY WAS IN CIRCULATION AT THAT TIME? Leviticus 27:30-33 shows there is a penalty for wanting to pay tithe in form of money. It's discouraged.

C. How many Christians are aware of the above Biblical facts?

D. Why is the practice of modern-day tithing different from what the Lord instructed?

If you decide to tithe, then you should tithe the Way GOD instructed. The current, so-called modern-day Christian tithing is false based on Biblical evidence. What is happening tithe-wise is different from what the People of Israel did in the Bible. That's all I want you to know.

Come to think of it; did you know that even the modern Jews do not tithe because the Temple and genealogical records were destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans? There is no Temple now to take the tithes to; there are no known Levites, because of the destruction of the records. Does it mean that tithe preachers know better than real Jews about the law of tithing? We believers are even now priests; 1 Peter 2:9, Hebrews 4:16. Is your pastor a Levite? Hebrews 7:5.

for the most part, I agree with the above.

However, it bust be understood that your teaching on Leviticus 27:30-33 is in error. The Bible says that the tither of crops could "redeem" his crops tithe if he so chose to do. The word "redeem" means "to buy back,". One could not evade tithing one's crops. The tithe had to be given to the Levite. If he wanted to back the tithe, he could at 20% above the assessed value of the crop tithe.

I have everything from the beginning of the Discuss up to Rebuttal of R8 saved in MSWord 2003 format.

Yes, I did give my permission. If my testimony can bless others by my sharing it (or others sharing it) then you are more than welcome to share it anywhere and anytime you deem it necessary to do so.

Luke 10:3-8 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way. And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:

Who did the hiring in that passage? Was it the people to whom the seventy were sent witnessing? Or was it the Lord Jesus Christ Himself? Why, it was the Lord! He sent them for a work. Their reward for obeying the Lord was being fed and being given drink by certain people. Jesus did not tell the seventy to go look for jobs. No, He sent them on a mission to preach the kingdom of heaven. He did the hiring of those seventy. He would lay it on the hearts of people to give food and drink to the seventy.

But notice also, while these seventy were seen doing the work of the ministry, they were NEVER asked by Jesus to receive tithes. They are never seen receiving tithes of the people they were preaching to. This is an important lesson. None received tithes who were not given the tithes in the first place irrespective of whether they worked for God or not. Elijah did not receive tithes, John the Baptist did not receive tithes, Jesus did not receive tithes, the apostles did not receive tithes. All these wonderful people who worked for God including our Lord and savior DID NOT RECEIVE TITHES because they were not Levites working at the temple. The one given the tithe were the Levites (Numbers 18:24) and the tithe of tithes to the priest (Numbers 18:26,28).

When Luke 10:7 is read in its context, it tells an entirely different story than what it appears when read alone. That is why it is of utmost importance to take notes when one hears a pastor preaching the Word. If one takes notes, one can compare those notes with a personal Bible study at home to make sure verses such as Luke 10:7 above are not pulled out of their Scriptural or historical context. How does Luke 10:7 compare with tithes, one may ask? The answer is obvious… it does not. Tithes were strictly agricultural according to God’s commandments. God said all the tithe of the land was His and they were holy (Leviticus 27). He did not say some of the tithes, He said ALL THE TITHES OF THE LAND. And then qualified what He meant when He said ALL THE TITHES OF THE LAND.

Again, Jesus hired the seventy and he laid it in the heart of the people they are sent to for their pay but they are not paid money neither were they paid tithes. No, they are simply given food and drink to eat while they are in the city. The passage has nothing whatsoever to do with tithing and really didn’t even need to be brought into the discussion as proof for tithing.

Again, Abram did tithe. We have no reservations when admitting this. But what Abram tithed was spoils of war… pagan spoils. At this point, I would like to challenge the reader to open his or her Bible and to find a verse that states that God allowed pagan spoils as tithes under the Law. The facts are, the only time we see pagan tithes given outside the Law is in the case of Abram’s tithe to Melchizedek. Does the reader really believe that God wants us to return to a time when, according to what we have written in the Word of God, the only tithes given to a Priest of the Most High God were pagan? No, we are not told to return to Abram’s tithe. We have been brought into a New Covenant. Nowhere in that New Covenant, (which begins after the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and His subsequent sprinkling of His blood on the Mercy Seat in Heaven) do we find one single solitary command or instruction for Gentile Churches to tithe anything
whatsoever.

The Pharisee that said he gave tithes of all that he possessed was in a parable. He was part of an illustration. Tithing was not the message, as we so rightly pointed out earlier in this discussion. The word “tithe” does mean “a tenth.” And if we were to cherry-pick and focus on that one word alone, we would be greatly mishandling the Word of God. We cannot focus on that one word alone, for it is clearly qualified by many other words.

Leviticus 27:30-33 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

As the reader can clearly see, the word “tithe” in Leviticus 27: is qualified by 112 other words in the passage.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

All Scripture is profitable. Not just one word. Just as one piece of a jigsaw puzzle does not tell one what the entire finished puzzle looks like, one word out of one hundred-twelve does not tell the whole story.

God clearly states in the passage above that all the tithes of the land were agricultural. They were consistently agricultural from Leviticus 27 to Hebrews 7 when the Levites were still observing the commandment to take tithes of their brethren ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

Christians have no command to pay tithes, monetary or agricultural. Christians have no command to take tithes and SURELY CHRISTIANS ARE UNDER NO CURSE OR PUNISHMENT WHATSOEVER FOR NOT PAYING TITHES



END

Here’s another,

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Are we to sell everything? Of course not! Jesus was speaking to a certain person… not to us. We are told that to have eternal life, we need to trust Christ. A big problem arises when one says Scripture that was spoken to a specific people is to be observed and obeyed by another group of people. This is exactly what Paul was illustrating in Galatians when he said those who submit to the Law must continue in all things written in the Law. You cannot pick and choose what Laws you think are important... it’s all or none. If one is going to say God wants us to tithe our money because He told the Levites to take agricultural tithes of their brethren, then we must also say that God wants us to kill our neighbors, our friends and our brothers too. That was a command in the Bible just as the command to tithe was in the Bible. After all, all Scripture is given for doctrine.

Another example, God told Hosea to marry a har.lot. Are we to specifically look for har.lots to marry also today? Again, God didn’t tell us to marry har.lots. He was speaking to a specific person. When the Bible indicates God is speaking instruction to a specific person or peoples, it means that those words are meant for them to follow. God did not tell Gentiles to kill anyone. God did not tell the Gentiles to marry a harlot. God did not tell the Gentiles to tithe. God did not tell pastors to collect tithes on behalf of Jesus Christ.

Our reason for not tithing is not due to what is written in Malachi 3 rather, it is because of what is written in Leviticus 27:30-34, Hebrews 7:5 and a host of other scriptures on tithe. The only instructions that God gave for anyone to tithe was for the children of Israel to tithe to the Levites, and subsequently the Levites to bring a tithe of the tithe to the Temple storehouse. We have proven this over and over and over using Scripture. There is no other commands concerning tithes in the Word of God than for people of the land of Israel to tithe. There is no indication that God amended that tithe law anywhere in the Bible to include all people of all nations nor is there any indication in the Word of God that God changed that tithe to a tithe of money. Gen 13:1 told us Abraham was rich in cattle, gold and silver. This was at least 400 years before the law was given so the excuse that God mentioned farm products because the society was agrarian holds no water. People have always had other occupations since biblical times. Even today, we have more of the world’s population into Agric than any other occupation, why even Candour’s younger sister is a trained administrator but runs a poultry and livestock farm. If God demands a tithe from her today, it will be strictly on the farm proceeds, not from her income as an administrator because that’s what Lev 27:30-33 clearly states.

The curses associated with the disobedience of Adam have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the curses pronounced in Malachi 3 for the Israelites not tithing their agricultural products. For one thing, God’s Word clearly tells us that the whole world was affected by man’s sin in the garden but the sin of not obeying the command to tithe did not affect the whole world… it only affected Israel. Under the Law, God did not punish the entire world for the sins of Israel. No, He punished Israel alone.

The Scriptural gymnastics are quite confusing. The topic here is supposed to be about tithing and yet so many verses are brought into the discussion to prove tithing that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING whatsoever to do with tithing. One may as well use the fact that Jesus told Judas, “What thou doest, do quickly”, and “Judas went out and hanged himself”, adding to them Jesus’ command to the Lawyer, “Go thou, and do likewise” to justify suicide. The verses have absolutely nothing to do with each other, yet if the reader does not rightly divide, the reader can justify the taking of his own life. It is the same with this modern-day monetary tithe doctrine imposed on the Gentile Churches. If the verses speaking of tithes are kept in their proper context, it is easy to see that God does not require a monetary tithe… never did but when the Scripture is not rightly divided, and the pulling Scripture out of its Biblical context is allowed, one can
easily come up with a monetary tithe for the Gentile Church. God blessed all who served Him. We have never denied this fact. But God never expected a monetary tithe from anybody. The command for it is just not there. Carpenters, Lawyers, Brickmasons, etc., they all had a purpose in Israel. Just as the farmer and herder had a purpose. His farm yielded meat, fruit and vegetables for him and his family, but for all who needed to eat who had chosen other occupations as well. They all had their purpose in Israel. But it was only the farmers and herders whom God required to tithe to the Levites. If a Jewish carpenter, a Jewish mason or a Jewish lawyer decides to have a farm or keep a herd, ONLY then could he pay tithe FROM HIS FARM ONLY because God’s tithes were from Agric produce only. It was only the Levites whom God required to bring tithe of tithes to the Temple Storehouse.

Important truths can be learned from any book, chapter or verse of the Bible… from beginning to end. But not all things applied to all peoples. We have clearly demonstrated this. Over and over in the New Testament, the Apostle Paul tells us that we are not under the Law, but under grace. He tells us that we are not to submit to the Law. If ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the Law. The opposite can be said. If ye are under the Law, ye are not led by the Spirit.

As in Malachi 3, Ezekiel 34:26 is also speaking of a natural rain. It is not speaking of some “spiritual rain’’ Immediately following verse 26, there is a verse 27 which reveals the rain will water the trees and the land and they will bear fruit. Once the land begins producing again, the people will certainly be blessed. But it is not because of a “spiritual rain.” Rather the physical rain causes fruit and vegetables to grow for the people. In every instance that the Hebrew word “geshem” is used in the Old Testament, it is speaking of a literal rain to water the Earth. From Genesis 7:12 to Zechariah 14:17. Ezekiel 34:26 is no different. It is speaking of physical rain to water the Earth.

We are told that the blessings for tithing are not limited to material or physical things but wherever we look in the Word of God at any given promise of blessings for tithing, the evidence is overwhelming to the fact that it is a physical blessing. Do we receive spiritual blessings today? According to Ephesians 1:3 we have already received all spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus. Why the need to seek more through tithing when we have already received all?

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Let the reader take note that the Word does not say God has given us some spiritual blessings now, and will give us more if we tithe our money. No, he has already given us all spiritual blessings. I have already been blessed with all spiritual blessings and the monetary tithe was not the cause of it.The promises of God are indeed “Yea and Amen.” And as we have pointed out, the promise that God gave to those who would bring the tithes into the storehouse was:

Malachi 3:10-12 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

1. A physical rain
2. An overabundance of crops
3. Crops surviving to full harvest.
4. All nations seeing Israel as a delightsome land
5. All nations calling Israel blessed.

It’s all there in black and white for the reader to see and it is all physical blessings… not spiritual, but physical.

In the instance of Luke 10:7, the reader must take into account that this was a specific command for the seventy that Jesus sent out. They had money, but they were told by the Lord not to take their money with them. If they had no money, Jesus would not have had to instruct them to carry no money with them. Notice:

RESPONSE TO REBUTTAL M6


We thank God for how far he’s brought us in this discussion and we trust him to see us through as we seek to know him more through his word. We think it imperative to remind our audience again that we took our position on the opposite side of the tithe preaching divide because we realized that contrary to the word of God, a lot of lies were being sold to Christians about the whole tithing thing. Chief among these lies are the following

1. If you don't tithe, you will burn in hell for ever because you’re a robber.

2. If you don’t tithe, you’ll have devourers like accidents, sickness, job loss, financial backwardness etc but if you do, you’ll have plenty money, sickness free life etc

3. Pay tithe as eternal principle to prove Abraham is your father according to Gen 14 and Heb 7

4. Pay tithe to your pastor because he is senior to you in the order of priesthood of Melchizedek

Our quest for the truth about this issue led to a lot of rich discoveries and those discoveries are what we’ve sought to share with our fellow discussants and the audience of this thread. Whatever conclusions folks reach after this discussion is their choice but everyone should remember that those statements, particularly the two in bold blue colours are EMPTY LIES FROM THE PIT OF HELL. We are very happy that our fellow discussants DO NOT subscribe to the false statements above as they said the following when we first wrote them on this thread

For the life of me, i have NEVER heard any of the above quote preached, except here on nairaland where antitithers keep saying it. i do not agree with any of the four statements above in an exact way. It is either an exaggeration of what may have been said, or perhaps it was never said, like i've never heard any preacher say these

We have no problem with the fact that “all Scripture is given for doctrine.” The problem we have is when one tries to make Scripture that God specifically stated was for the nation of Israel doctrine that every nation is to obey. Using the logic that all Scripture is for doctrine and therefore to be practiced and obeyed, we must re-examine the following passage:

Exodus 32:26-27 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

Hmmm, the Word of God says we should kill our neighbors, our brothers and our friends. After all, the Word is for doctrine, is it not? Of course we are not told by God to kill. Yet God did say “kill.” And all Scripture was given for doctrine. Just as the command was for the Levites to kill in Exodus 32 does not mean we are to kill our neighbors, our friends and our brothers, so also another commandment that was given to the Levites was not for us.

Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

The Levites were given the commandment to take tithe. We were not. Context is very important when studying scripture.

Our delays are my fault. I have to have two windows side by side, switching back and forth. I listen to the posts others make on one, and then talk to the other. Listening to a paragraph and responding to that paragraph before I listen to the next. Very time consuming. Stopping and going, stopping and going. One would think I was a sightseer. LOL

PRESENTATION M6


Blessings and Curses

The Blessings and Curse associated with tithing was not ill health, loss of job, mechanical problems, etc. (Malachi 3:10-12)

Malachi 3:7-11 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

The LORD told Malachi that those who brought the tithes into the storehouse would see rain fall upon the Earth, the fields bring forth crops in abundance, and locusts would be stayed from destroying the crops. This is contrary to what many tithe teachers preach and teach from their pulpits today

The curse associated with not tithing was destruction of crops and a holding back of the needed rain. Nothing else.

1. God said if one tithed, He would “open the windows of Heaven and pour out a blessing" that the tither would find he did not have enough room to receive that blessing.

The “windows of Heaven” is first mentioned in the book of Genesis, where God opened the windows of Heaven and caused rain to fall upon the Earth for the very first time.

Genesis 7:11-12 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

The promised rains in Malachi would water the fields and cause them to bring forth so great a harvest that there would not be room enough to store it all. This means barns would be full, silos would be full, storehouses for grains would be full… and still there would be food left over…. If only the Priests, (those to whom God was speaking to in Malachi 3 ) would bring the tithes into the storehouse.

The promise associated with obedience to tithing clearly shows the blessing God is speaking of is material and not spiritual.

2. The curse associated with not tithing was drought and insects that ate what little grew in the farmer’s fields. It was not ill health, mechanical problems, loss of job, God taking their money because they did not tithe, etc..

So many today, when teaching the Church members that they are to tithe, run to Malachi 3 and say, “See here, God says you are robbing Him if you don’t tithe your money.” “God says here in Malachi 3 that if you tithe your money, He will give you abundant blessings.” Some pastors even affirm that YOU CANNOT PROSPER FINANCIALLY AS A CHRISTIAN UNLESS YOU SURRENDER 10% OF YOUR INCOME TO THE CHURCH. This is obvious falsehood. One only need look at those poor families all over the world who tithe their money and remain in poverty to see that Malachi 3 is not speaking of tithes of money. Otherwise, we would see those poor tithers receiving such an abundance that they would come out of their poverty. “I will… pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”

If only those who are being told to tithe their money would just open their eyes to the reality that God was not speaking of tithes of money, they might be freed from the bondage that they are in when they bow to the monetary tithe requirement doctrine.

The monetary tithe requirement doctrine is not a doctrine of blessing for the poor tither at all. Rather, it is a doctrine of continued poverty.

See the promises of God for us in the new testament

Romans 8:32 [/b]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

[b] Phillipians 4:19 [/b]But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus

[b] Heb 13:5 [/b]Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee

God doesn’t need us to pay him before he blesses us or meet our basic needs. We just need to trust and believe he’s faithful and as we go about our daily works, we’ll see him show up in our situations.

[b]END

Happy New Year to all. Be blessed!

Ephesians 2:14-15 [/b]For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

[b]Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Christ abolished the ordinances as Scripture states He did.

Even the apostles agreed

Acts 15:24 [/b]Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

again

[b]Acts 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;[29]That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well

and again

Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

When then, did this rule sanctioned by the Holy Ghost change?

Of course the Roman Catholics borrowed it from Moses and made it a canon law for themselves in 585AD and even then, it remained FARM AND ANIMAL PRODUCE until the 1800s in America when it became cash.

The Levites were scattered after the destruction of the Temple. They could no longer take tithes of their brethren. We’ve proved that the apostles DID NOT take tithes of any Christian, Jew or Gentile when the temple was still operational. Can anybody tell us when they started collecting tithes of the believers?

To whom do we pay the tithes God instituted in the law of Moses to today?

END

PRESENTATION M5

Only certain people (the Levite, the widow, the orphan, and foreigners taking refuge in the land of Israel) were qualified to receive tithes (Num. 18:24,26,28; Deut 14:22-29; Neh. 10:37-38)


a) The Levitical Tithe – To be given to the Levites in Israel.

Numbers 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.
Numbers 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD'S heave offering to Aaron the priest.

Upon receiving the tithes, the Levites were responsible for taking a tithe of the tithe to the Temple Storehouse chambers:

Nehemiah 10:37-38 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage. And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

b) The Feast Tithes – These tithes were to be taken to Jerusalem and eaten by the tither, his family, and the Levites there in Jerusalem during one of three Feasts each year. (see Deuteronomy 14:22-27)

c) The Poor Tithe – This tithe was kept on the tither’s property, to be given to the widows, orphans, Levites, and refugees in the land of Israel. This tithe, like the previous two tithes, was of food just as Deuteronomy 14:28-29 reveals.

None else had any authority to receive tithes, or to take tithes of the people but the specific people above.

And in the New Testament, during the time of the apostles, the tithes are still going to the Levites because the Levities had a command to take tithes for their duties at the Temple.… until 70 A.D., when General Titus, son of Vespasian the reigning Caesar of Rome attacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple uprooting it from its foundations and sending the Jews into a dispersion into all nations of the earth as had been prophesied by Prophets of old and even by Christ (Matt 24:1-3). Once the Temple was destroyed, the Levites were no longer doing the service they had been fulfilling for the previous 1500 years hence they no longer needed the tithes.

The tithe laws were fully and exclusively Jewish and obtainable in Judaism. They had nothing to do with Christianity.

Thank you, Image123 for posting the Presentation R5. A draft of the Rebuttal has been emailed to Candour and hopefully will be posted as soon as possible.

While waiting over the Christmas holiday, I realized that because M4 & M5 were merged, I was going to be one short of the ten we agreed upon.

If it is permissible, I have pieced together a new point that I will give at last, calling it M10. Can we change M6 to M5, M7 to M6, M8 to M7, M9 to M8, and M10 to M9?

Adding at the end a new M10 - A Great Hearing Problem
The Scripture reference for M10 will be Hebrews 2:1

Please let me know if this is acceptable or not.

Afrobasic: If I'm right, this was Rude's main argument... Shedding of innocence just to take the glory.

Why then do you complain when other gods eg Allah, shed blood just to take the glory?

who said the firstborn were innocent?

Psalms 58:3 (KJV) 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

The judgment passed upon Egypt was a result of Pharaoh's decree that the firstborn of Israel would be killed. God's people were in bondage. He had given Pharaoh multiple chances to simply say, "Go, take your people and worship your God." But Pharaoh hardened his heart against God.

Why would God kill all the firstborn of Egypt? Because they were just as sinful as their prideful leader was. Not one was "innocent." They all were corrupted with sin... yes, even the infants. Years later, King David concurred that all were born in sin.

Concerning the account of Creation, many are opposed to a literal six-day period in which the Earth and all that is in it were created. Yet, in the Word of God, we read:

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The Word of God declares that the Earth was created in six days. We who are His cannot deny His Word.

More than 100 years ago, someone got an idea that they could disprove the Biblical account of creation if they put a multi-million year gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. Their reasoning is that the word that the word that the King James translators translated as "was" (which is the Hebrew word "hayah" ) could also be translated "became."

in many instances, the word "hayah" is indeed translated as "became."

But the KJV translators used th word "was" in Genesis 1:2 for a reason. That reason being, of all the words that the Hebrew word "hayah" could be translated to, the word "was" was the most logical.

The problem arises with a later word, found in verse 28. That word is the word "replenish" Our modern dictionaries all define the word with two answers... "to fill", and "to fill again."

But earlier dictionaries do not have the second definition, only the first.

Nathan Bailey's Etymological Dictionary of the English Language, written in 1726 A.D., defines "replenish" as "to fill." That's it. Just "to fill.

And earlier Dictionary, Robert Cawdrey's "A Table Alphabeticall" written in 1604 A.D., defines "replenish as "to fill." That's it. Just "to fill.

In 1604, when the KJV translators convened to begin their translation, the word "replenish" only had one meaning... "to fill"

The command was not "fill again" in Genesis 28. It was "fill" for the first time.