₦airaland Forum

vedaxcool: Abdulsleek, logicboy01, 02, . . .infinity, bigurban2, logicbwoy01 . . ., cheeers, . . ., mazaje, , s e u n, (I feel like getting a ban), , cyrex, onetrack etc. @other hatetheist to numerous to mention,

https://verastic.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/See-Your-Life.pngù

Why is this deluded man stalking me? . . . .seems someone is having sleepless nights because of me. . .

BetaThings: How much of yourself have you lost due to this inveterate hatred of Islam
Can you please tote up the number of lives lost to activities pf various religious sects over time
FYI - Nobody wants to become an Arab
It is a sin to even attribute oneself to another father, let alone another race
And did you think through what you are quoting?
1billion people want to convert but they are fearful that they will be killed? By who? the zero that will be left in Islam?
Please let us think and not allow people to continue to mock us
And you are telling me that Pastor Tunde Bakare was killed for converting from Islam?

You are a reasonable person and I have respect for you. .I mean it sincerely, your post speak for themselves .I have been following your post and you always respond with sense and honesty as best as you can. You don't go over board, you defend your beliefs and try to be fair. . .If you were the one that created this topic and I posted what i posted you will have responded reasonably and would a reasonable conversation would have followed even though we will disagree, but every body will make his point. The same can not be said of our deluded resident hypocrite. our resident hypocrite always wants to show the world that muslims are under persecution and if you show him that muslims do not give minorities half of the privileges the west give them in their own lands it becomes a problems, he begins to hide his aggression as wise kicks and use it to insult people. . .I also can play his games too, i give it as it comes. . .

MrAnony1:

I wonder what you even mean by "morally upright" now since according to you religious believers like Boko Haram have not sinned even when killing kidnapping innocent people as long as they think they are right in doing so.

I can play your games very well. . .You also hold that Moses, Joshua, Ezekiel etc in the bible have not sinned, when they went around killing innocent people, pillaging and looting their lands, enslaving them, sharing their virgins etc thinking they were right in doing so. . .Why then do you hold that BH have sinned? Their god told them to do it just as your god told his prophets to do same. . .

The problem you are having results from the fact that you don't have an objective basis for morality from which we may now judge right and wrong. Secondly you don't believe that there is an afterlife by which man will be judged according to his actions whether they be right or wrong.

I want to touch on this. . .I used to think that morality is objective but in reality it is not. . .Even your god which you use as a standard for objective morality fails at it completely. . ..If morality is from god then why doesn't ALL moral values come about same way?You keep claiming that god is the higher source of morality, and to you that god is the god of the bible, if that is true then why do so many moral principles in the bible inspire our revulsion today? Even if we are to agree that objective moral values exist then the god of the bible is not its source. . .

I will list 3 objective moral values just for the sake of this debate

1. it is wrong to kill innocent children
2. It is wrong to enslave other people
3.it is wrong to kill other people for having other religion and believing in other deities. . .

Read the bible and you will see the god of the bible violating these 3 objective moral principles. . .How then can he be the source of objective moral principle when he keeps violating it? the bible is FILLED with God producing acts and injunctions that strike many of us today christians included as being against our moral intuitions and values. . .It's like saying we all agree that math is valid and objective so there must be a great mathematician from which math flows and then saying "Hey, I've got the best candidate for who that mathematician might be . .here he is described in this old book. . ." But the character in the book is found espousing all manner of "wrong" mathematics, like 2 +2 = 5. Well if you are appealing to the objectivity of mathematical formulations like 2 + 2 = 5 as a starting point for the existence of a great mathematician, it sure as hell invalidates any candidate who isn't getting math right.

Since you don't have a basis for properly defining morality or give justifiable reasons why morality ought to be upheld over immorality, you are left in a very confused position where self-contradiction is the inevitable result.

I warned you earlier that there is no point chasing after particular beliefs about the afterlife before establishing basic principles upon which further discourse can be based....but alas you wouldn't listen.

I have done that already but you refused to accept it. . .Humans are the source of ALL moral principles. . .Morality and ALL moral principles were created by humans and they choose to accept what is moral and what is immoral mostly based on consensus and what they feel will be best for the society, when stealing other people's lands was what was best for your God;s chosen men we have him telling them to go and invade other people and take their lands because it was flowing with milk and honey. . .What is moral today can be immoral tomorrow and vice versa. . .Morality MUST be learned. . .It started as a result of experimentation. . .Read your bible and you will see how the morality of the people and their God kept evolving. . .Their God started by accepting Inbreeding, accepting the killing other people that are outside the race of his chosen people, tolerating and sanctioning slavery, rejecting sick people from entering his temple , being openly sexist, accepting human sacrifice, having a chosen people, telling them its ok to kill others because they do not worship him. . .People(religious leaders) ALWAYS use God as the central authority back in the days when creating moral principles that they themselves created they use God to make it binding. . .If they wanted to marry 4 wives, then the commandment will always come from God, if they want to stop acts like homos[i]e[/i]xuality then God is the moral law giver. . .All moral laws are created by humans , they vary from place to place and are constantly evolving based on consensus, culture and way of life of the people. . .Dominant cultures most times influence the weaker cultures to accept their moral principles after they have invaded them or colonized them. . . Christianity and Islam are good examples. . .

MrAnony1: Very good. You have finally represented it accurately

OK. . . .

Wait a minute, but all have sinned. Are you now saying that there are morally upright sinners? That's as illogical as saying that there are married bachelors.

Wiki defines morality as "Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, religion, culture, etc Morality is conformity to the rules of right conduct "

We are talking about morality and not sin, what is sin to your god is not sin to another god. . .eating pork is sin to allah but not sin to your god. . .Remember the argument is based on your claim that morality only makes sense because of the afterlife, hope you know that your religion and its theology is NOT the only religion, more than 70% of the world believes in something else. . .The argument he is why should they live morally upright lives when your religion already condemns them, it already says they are sinners from birth. . .Their religion does NOT say that. . .What is sin to your god is not sin to theirs. . .Non christians are perfectly morally upright. . .They are not sinners, their religion does not say they are sinners, your religion is not the only religion. . .You are yet to show me why non christians deserve to live morally upright lives and obey rules and regulations set out by authorities if morality only makes sense because of the afterlife. . .Are saying that only christians live morally upright lives and all non christians do not live morally upright lives?. . .If that is what you are saying then say so. . .

Point of correction, they are already doomed for their sins. Then they rejected Jesus who would have saved them.

That is why i said regardless of how morally upright they live their lives it doesn't matter in your religion. . .I have given you the definition of morality, it has nothing to do with sin, sin is a theological construct. . .I repeat a non muslims has no original sin in him because according to his own god allah he has inherited no sin from any Adam. . .We are just talking about morality and how you said it makes sense only because of the afterlife. . .If morality only makes sense because of the afterlife then you yourself are doomed in allahs hell for not believing in Mohammed his last messenger and in him. . .Why then should you live a morally upright life since at the end you will wind up in doom and eternal perdition if morality only makes sense because of the afterlife. . .Your religion is not the only religion with stories. . .

Yes. What's wrong with that?

No where in the bible does it say that a non believer that lives without sin will be rewarded. . .I was just trying to show you that living a morally upright life doesn't matter, if at the end you will be doomed for not believing in Jesus. . .


Wrong. It is important to be morally upright as well as believe in the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


Really, name them. I hope you realize that to be morally upright means that they must never have sinned at all. Not even once. So please name a few of these many people that you are talking about. Are you one of them? Are you morally upright?

Lololololol....I see, so you are saying that you have not sinned as long as you think what you are doing is right. Boko Haram and ISIS and all your corrupt politicians and you mazaje included have not sinned as long as you don't think you are wrong.

When Moses in the bible and his foot soldiers were busy invading the lands of others, stealing the lands, annihilating them and sharing their virgins among themselves did they think they were doing wrong?. . .Wasn't it their god that gave them those injunctions?. . .What is the difference between all those murderous gangsters in the bible that went about pillaging, looting and rapinggg because their god to them to do so and boko haram?. . .were they not all doing it because they used their god as their standard?. . .As long as you hold people like Moses, Elijah, Joshua, Ezekiel etc in high regards you have no reason to condemn boko haram because what they claim their god told them to do is the same thing these prophets of yours also claimed their god told them to do. . .If you condemn BH for doing what their god told them to do them you must also condemn Moses and all the others in the bible for doing worse. . .

,

On the contrary all you have shown is an unwillingness to represent my position honestly even after demonstrating that you have understood it (as shown in your first sentence above)

You actually have no position. .you have just been trying to dance around the issue. . .Your position is simple , morality only makes sense for humans(Not just christians alone, but humans as a whole) because of the afterlife. . .But in reality your position makes no sense since it is not all humans that believe in your religion and according to your religion those that do not believe in Jesus can not even have any share in the afterlife, they are already doomed. . .Their moral uprightness doesn't matter as long as they do not believe in Jesus. . .They can be morally upright if they want but they will be doomed. . .Again are you saying that only christains are morally upright?

This wanna be slave of the arabs who has been indoctrinated with the arabic mythology and fictitious ideas is still here talking thrash?. . .When will he go and blow up and the bomb he has tied round his waste as commanded by the arabic mythology he has been indoctrinated with?. . .While his brothers are busy killing themselves and others for allah, this deluded one can only cry on the internet of how christians are persecuting muslims in Italy. . .When will this deluded arab myth believer go to Italy and detonate the bomb he has round his waist for allah?. . .Your brothers are busy killing infidels for allah and all you can do is sit down behind a burrowed computer and be crying about how muslims are being persecuted in Europe. . .

https://www.siotw.org/modules/quran/images/jihad1.jpg

https://www.barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/37302_436487015794_647900794_6192323_1009354_n.jpg

Instead of raving like a mad dog on the internet, it will do you more good if you hurry up and detonate the bomb you have round your waist as you lay ambush waiting for the infidels to kill in the name of allah. . .Didn't your Koran tell you to "use steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah.”?. . Terrorism 101

Hurry up and do as commanded and stop wasting time raving like a mad dog thou shameless and deluded hypocrite. . .

MrAnony1: LOL....when I read this two days ago I just couldn't contain my laughter. You are trying so hard to miss the point it is really amusing.


Lololol did I really? or did you deliberately confuse yourself in order to make that accusation.

Let's examine what you quoted me saying shall we:





Please where did I say that people who do not believe in Jesus Christ will be saved? Are you sure you actually read what you are responding to?



Lololol....If all have come short of God's glory because they have sinned then it only follows that if all hadn't sinned, they wouldn't come short of God's glory. It is so simple and staring you right in the face.


Yes that's true but have you read any of those verses in context?


Lol...the question is if you can indeed live morally without any sin.


Yes let's study the bible


Yes you will perish because you have sinned and you rejected Christ who came to save you from the wages of your sins. If you hadn't sinned, you wouldn't need a saviour.

John3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.



Yes of course the phrase "condemned already signifies that they are already condemned before the question of believing even comes up hence rejecting Christ leaves them in their condemnation. Right in front of your eyes yet you are blind.


Lol "...trying to spin it"? Were you not the one who pointed out that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God? Yet here you are trying so hard to pretend that it is not their sins that condemned them. How dishonest do you have to be really?


Exactly! But the question is "Salvation from what?" What is Christ saving us from if not the condemnation brought upon us by our sins. If we had not all sinned and were condemned already, why then would we need salvation?



True. But if we were not already lost due to our sins why then would we need a way to the Father?



Yes Christ is the only way to Salvation because we need to be saved from the damnation brought upon us by our sins. As you rightfully said: "ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."



I never made any such claim.

The rest of the post is where you parrot the same opinion that you yourself have debunked by showing from scripture that ALL have sinned and Christ is the ONLY way to save them from the bad consequences of their sins.

Bottom line is all have sinned according to your world view and Jesus is what is needed to save people from their sins. . .Those who do not believe in Jesus and his sacrifice regardless of how morally upright they live their lives will still perish. . .Non christians have no reason to live morally upright lives if morality only makes sense because of the afterlife since they deny Jesus and are already domed in the afterlife for denying Jesus. . .You said if they live a life without sin they will be rewarded and then turned around and said no one can live without sin. . .The bottom line is that it all boils down to belief and not how morally upright you are. . ..There are many non christians who live exemplary morally upright lives worthy of emulation but deny Jesus if morality only makes sense because of the after life they have no reason to live such morally upright lives because they deny Jesus and have been doomed to eternal perdition. . .By the way they have not sinned, they have their own religion which they follow which tells them they haven't sinned and are on the right path. . .Your religion is not the only religion and your theology is not the only theology, I have just shown you that claiming that morality makes sense only because of the afterlife is a actually senseless because your world view already condmes those that do not accept it to eternal perdition for their unbelief. . .If you live morally upright lives but deny Jesus you will be doomed in the afterlife, so no need for non christians to live morally upright lives if morality only makes sense because of the after life. . .

Truth hurts doesn't it?. . . Our resident and deluded hypocrite always wants to whine and cry about how muslims are being "persecuted" in non muslim majority lands. . . When will our resident and deluded hypocrite shine the light on the persecutions non muslims face in muslim majority lands?. . .This deluded feeling of superiority is actually the reason behind this craziness and foolishness, when in reality they are the ones at the bottom and will continue to be at the bottom. . .Am done with our wanna be hypocritical slave of the Arabs and their ideas. . .Go tie some explosives round your body and kill some infidels for allah. . .

If you like continue screaming like the man in pic below and looking for more blood to spill for allah. . .

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/shreddersig/arabriot.jpg

it won't stop me from pointing your your ridiculous hypocrisy. . .

https://elsasblog.com/image-files/yusuf-al-qaradawi-apostasy-punishment-death.jpg

"I call on all Liberians to observe three
days of national fast and prayer to seek
God's face to have mercy on us and
forgive our sins and heal our land,
Liberia, as we continue the fight against
the deadly Ebola virus", President Sirleaf
said in a statement.

Deluded African leaders, always telling their followers to pray to dead gods that never answer their prayers and solve their problems since 1900. . .

NativeBoy: I won't argue with you about a lot of scamming being carried out in the name of God in Nigeria. However, your argument is faulty when you make a comparison between Europe and Africa and blame God for the disparity in response to the Ebola outbreak. We Africans are reaping what we sow. The inability to fight corruption, the lack of serious conviction to improve society, our collective cowardice to initiate revolution, etc. That's the difference.

To address your other point about Europe moving beyond God. Yes, Europe is largely secular now, but Europe's situation today didn't happen today did it? As we all know, Europe was built on a Judeo-Christian foundation. Secularism cannot now take the credit and I hope you were not implying that. Moreover, when Europe wasn't secular, did that stop them from making advances that improved quality of life? The answer is No. In fact, in all areas of life, from art to music to medicine, etc, people were making advances as a result of their service and devotion to God.

You are here again with your false claim. . .Secularism is what has made the western world to become what it is today. . .We all know the principles that made the west to become the giant that is is today, these principles are democracy(freedom to vote and be voted for, freedom of association, freedom of speech etc), capitalism, separation of such and state, capitalism, gender equality, and secular education that promotes naturalistic reasoning instead of superstition and mythology. . .NON of these principles is rooted in christianity, in fact a lot of them are anti christian principles. . .

Its very funny how our resident hypocrite always come about creating topics about how muslims are persecuted in other people's land as if muslims do any better. . .Muslims do not give non muslims a quarter of the rights and privileges they enjoy in the west so why whine and cry when given just a little taste of your own medicine?. . . Any way scream shout and then continue killing all the infidels for allah, after all islam will soon take over the world and sharia will take over from democracy. . .

https://drrichswier.com/wp-content/uploads/behead-those-who-insult-islam-photo-e1407928284185.jpg

And some where in the Middle east just last week Christians were being arrested just for being Christians. . .

[size=15pt]Dozens of Christians 'including women and children' are arrested in Saudi Arabia after tip-off to state's Islamist police force[/size]

Islamist police in Saudi Arabia have stormed a Christian prayer meeting and arrested its entire congregation, including women and children, and confiscated their bibles, it has been reported.
The raid was the latest incident of a swingeing crackdown on religious minorities in Saudi Arabia by the country's hard-line Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.
The 28 Christians were said to be worshipping at the home of an Indian national in the eastern city of Khafji, when the police entered the building and took them into custody. They have not been seen or heard from since, raising concerns among human rights groups as to their whereabouts.
Nina Shea, director of the Washington-based Hudson Institute's Center for Religious Freedom, told FoxNews.com: 'Saudi Arabia is continuing the religious cleansing that has always been its official policy.
'It is the only nation state in the world with the official policy of banning all churches.
'This is enforced even though there are over two million Christian foreign workers in that country. Those victimized are typically poor, from Asian and African countries with weak governments.'
Activists are now calling on the U.S. to use its considerable influence in the region to help secure the release of the incarcerated Christians.
A spokesperson for the Saudi government claimed to have no knowledge of the arrests, according to Fox News.
But the English-language newspaper, The Saudi Gazette, as well as several Saudi Arabic-language news outlets, have reported on the arrests.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2756134/Dozens-Christians-including-women-children-arrested-Saudi-Arabia-tip-state-s-Islamist-police-force.html

OLAADEGBU: In the passage you quoted above, God simply gave the conditions for blessings. We have the freedom to choose to be blessed and the consequences of a wrong choice is curses. The absence of good is evil, in the absence of Goodness in your life is evil, the absence of God is the devil, the absence of righteousness in your life is unrighteousness. The ball is therefore in your court.

What has the nonsense you wrote god to do with the passage that says god committed evil and apologized for it?. . .

macof: Wat mal-formed options? you just trying to be careful not to contradict urself and beliefs some more. simply be humble and admit u have been a nuisance on this thread
You have made absolutely no sense from ur first post

Anony just threw what his religion teaches under the bus. . .he said non believes will go to heaven. . .He just wants to be every where. . .Its funny that every ones sees through his shenanigans except him. . .

MrAnony1: Non-Christians should live a morally upright life because they will be judged in the afterlife based on how they lived their lives. If they are pure and without sin then they will be rewarded but if any sin is found in them, they will be punished. Furthermore, if they have repented of their sins and accepted Christ's atoning sacrifice, then they will be forgiven of the sins they may have commited...but if they reject God's forgiveness through Christ then they will have to pay for their sins themselves.

Finally you have answered but you had to lie and throw away what your religion CLEARLY teaches you and says. . .Pls where in the bible is it written that people that do not believe in Jesus will be saved?. . .Saying that non believers will be saved if they are found without sin is your own making because the bible clearly says all have sinned and come short of the glory of god. . .Jesus himself said non is god except his father in heaven, other verses talk about peoples righteous acts being like filthy rags in the eyes of god. . .Living morally without accepting Jesus into your life will not give you access into heaven, stop making things up. . .

From the bible. . .

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Who so ever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life, if you don't believe in him you will perish. .

Jhn 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This one is very much clear, I see no reason why you keep trying to spin it, no where does it say unbelievers are condemned for their sins any where in this verse, it clearly says that He who believes is not condemned but he who does not believe is condemned already and it gave the reason as to why the unbeliever is condemned , the reason is because he had not believed in the name of the only begotten son of god. . .

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12


Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me John 14:6


These are are few biblical verses that clearly state the ONLY through Jesus will eternal happiness and salvation be achieved. . .Give me just one biblical verse that says those that do not believe in Jesus will be saved or have access to be with god in the life after death according to the christian religion. . .

You are just all over the place, it is very clear that under your world view non christians have no reason to live moral lives because they do not believe in Jesus and for that they have been condemned and will perish in the afterlife for not believing in Jesus, even if they live moral lives it doesnt matter. . .They will first have to believe in Jesus before any other thing. . .Non christians have no reason to live moral lives under your world view because at the end they will be cast away into eternal perdition in the afterlife. . .If morality only makes sense in the afterlife then majority of humans have no reason to act morally because they have already been condemned for their unbelief in the afterlife, according to your worldview that is. . .. . .

RayMcBlue: Well said. Yet, if you talk to the theists, they ignore all of this evidence. So what might motivate theists to ignore the strong evidence that God is imaginary? Here are 3 possibilities:

-Theists might choose to believe that God is answering their prayers, despite the evidence that "answered prayers" are nothing more than coincidences, because it is a huge boost to the ego. This explanation works both for big "miracles" and small ones. Imagine this: Imagine that you have cancer, you pray to God for a cure, you undergo surgery and chemotherapy, and the cancer does go into remission. What cured you? The surgery and chemo: all evidence indicates that this is the case. If God was going to cure you, you would have been able to
skip the surgery and chemo, right? Yet, as a theist, it is a huge ego boost to believe that the all-powerful creator of the universe cured you. It means he has "big plans" for the rest of your life.

-Theists might choose to believe that God is answering their prayers, despite the evidence that "answered prayers" are nothing more than coincidences, because they are afraid of being alone. They need an invisible friend to talk to in order to cope with lonliness, and God is the "community sanctioned" invisible friend that is accepted in our society. It may be that, for millions of people, an invisible friend is the only way they can cope with being alone. In order to make this invisible friend seem more real, it may help the illusion if you believe that he hears and answers prayers.

-When we are born, we instinctively have a place in our brains for an "all-knowing, all-loving being". When we are young this being is called a parent, and children naturally and instinctively bond to their parents. What if a large number of people never outgrow this phase, and need to fill this place in their brains with something once they have left their real parents and moved on? In other words, what if this place in the brain remains into adulthood for many people, long after it has served its need, and people feel lonely unless they fill this place with something? Having an "all-knowing, all-loving" invisible friend would be an obvious thing to fill it with. If you can heighten the illusion by believeing that this imaginary friend answers prayers, all the better.

Is this a direct proof that God is imaginary? No. But it shows that theists have strong incentives to delude themselves into believing.

Another perfect example is the Middle East, see how they pray before they go about fighting the infidels, the read the Koran with all sincerity believing that Allah will give them victory over the infidels. . .But at the end they always lose. . .

RayMcBlue: ^Exasperating as hell...

Their most common rationalization for the lack of scientific evidence is the "Allah must remain hidden" argument. Many would try to rationalize Allah's existence by saying something like this:

"The existence of the universe proves Allah's existence. Something had to create the universe. Science has no explanation for the universe's creation. Therefore, Allah created it."

Bunch of Frauds.

God is always their default position for "I don't know". . .If god exist then there should be direct and objective evidence for his existence simple. . .lets assume that god exist, he has this special message he wants to share with the whole of humanity and the best he can do is to send the message to an arabic man in arabic to cram and recite to other humans?. . .Even humans will not do this. .Humans will not employ this failed and ludicrous system .If the President of Nigerian for example has a special message for all Nigerians and wants to send the message to all of Nigerians he appears on TV and speaks in English which is the common and official language of the country so that most people will get the message. . .He will not appear to one obscured man in Benue state speak to him in Tiv and tell him to share the message to all Nigerians. . .Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary evidence, you can not make extra ordinary claims and then produce extremely weak evidence or non evidence for your claims.

RayMcBlue: Here are some deductive reasonings of my own. For example:

-God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth.
-God has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to everyone.
-The Bible and Qur'an we have is provably incorrect and is obviously the work of primitive men rather than God.
-When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no
evidence that God is "answering prayers."
-Huge, amazing atrocities like the Holocaust and AIDS
occur without any response from God.
-And so on...
(No empirical evidence showing that God exists).

If you think about it as a rational person, this lack of evidence is startling. There is not one bit of empirical evidence indicating that today's "God", nor any other contemporary god, nor any god of the past, exists. In addition we know that:

-If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".
-If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.
-If we had scientific proof of God's existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.

The reason for this lack of evidence is easy for any unbiased observer to see. The reason why there is no empirical evidence for God is because God is imaginary.

Deductive reasoning 101. Two can play this game, bro.

Nice one, but the theist will tell you that when it comes to evidence for god you are not expected to demand for an objective evidence but some tenuous one like the Koran is the word of god. . .I wonder why they do this. . .

Image123: No, meaning He will heal them ALL after the rapture. What part of the sentence do you fail to understand?

Why after the rapture why not now. . .So far babies born with down syndrome and amputees are yet to receive any healing from your god. .I wonder why that is. . .

tbaba12345: But i have evidence for my beliefs.

God does not need empirical validaton because almost all of the truths we hold are not empirical.

https://www.nairaland.com/1898514/qurans-miracle-non-arabic-speakers

The Koran is your evidence for god?. . .

I got some of these questions from the FRDB board and added some of my own to it. . .

1. Why does your god depend on evil to get its plans working? Satan is absolutely required for the story of the bible to happen. Evidently this god can’t get it up without using evil, which would break that claim that the Christian god is omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent, unable to stand evil.

2. Why does god depend on a book that is not well written by humans and subject to human translators to get its supposedly perfect message out to humans?

3.Why do Christians all claim that they all have what God really meant, but they always disagree? Many disagree on the basic nature of who this god they are talking about is.

4. How can we tell who the true Christians are?

5. Why does god always lag behind humans when it comes to morality?

6. Why is your god evidently impotent or imaginary in that it allows people who sin against it to keep on going and benefit, unlike the stories in the bible both the new and the old testament where he attacks them directly when they offend him, ? Can’t use free will since that didn't seem to bother him in the stories you claim are real.

7. Why does an omniscient, omnipotent god fail at every attempt at getting humans to behave? He should know exactly what it would take and do it.

8. Why is there no direct evidence for this god at all?

9. Why didn't’ your god require blind faith in the bible, with personal appearances, miracles that were to be accepted as evidence? Why is it the usual excuse of Christians now?

Image123: You asked when God would heal ALL the children in the world and i told you when.

Meaning your god can not heal children with down syndrome?. . .

MrAnony1: No it isn't so. a person who believes in the sacrifice of Christ but who still continues in unrepentant sin afterwards will go to hell for his/her sin. Again this clearly demonstrates that it is sin that brings condemnation.

I think I have made the distinction very clear now. If you feel that it is not sin (immoral actions) that condemns a person, then please carry on with your belief just know that it isn't what Christianity teaches at all.


For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. - Romans 2:11-16

It doesn't matter at all. . .I don't want to get into christian theology because how salvation is obtained has not been yet been agreed by christians. . .There are those that claim faith alone is enough others claim faith and works. . .I won't like to get into that because this is not what the topic is about. . .At the end what really matters is believing in the Jesus story and living according to it. . .That is what matters not how morally upright you live your life. .Christians do not live morally upright lives than non christians . . . .there is NO evidence what so ever to show that christians live morally upright lives more than non christians, no evidence for that what so ever. . .If at the end believing in Jesus is what matters and morality only makes sense because of the after life then why should non christians live morally upright lives?. . .Using you specifically as an example, you might be a moral person living according to the tenets of christianity but there are countless numbers of non christians that reject the stories of Jesus because they follow other stories from other religions that live better moral upright lives than you, but you believe you will be saved in the afterlife while they will be condemned even though they are better human beings than you morally. if morality only makes sense for humans because of the afterlife then why should they(non christians) live morally upright lives here on earth since they have already been condemn to eternal perdition in the afterlife?. . .You just don't want to touch the question, you keep running away from it, because its very obvious that it destroys your points. . .If acting morally on earth as human only makes sense because of the after life then majority of humans have no reason to act morally because they do NOT believe in the Jesus story and never will and for that they have been condemned already, so they have no reason to act morally in any way. . .But if morality depends on something else other than the afterlife then they have reason to live morally upright lives. . .

MrAnony1: I have sufficiently answered you. It is inaccurate to say that their unbelief in Christ is the reason why they are condemned. They are condemned because they have done immoral things. Christ offers them the means of salvation and where they reject it, they remain in their condemned state.

I hope that's clear enough for you now.

You have not answered the question I have asked you at all. . .You keep trying to spin it but still end up saying the same thing. . .Is it christians that haven't done immoral things?. . .Christians as well constantly do immoral things and they continue to do immoral things but the believe that because they accept and believe in Jesus and his salvation they will be saved in the afterlife, isn't that so?. . .The reality is at the end belief in Jesus is ONLY what matters when it comes to the afterlife, no matter how morally upright you are(there are uncountable non christians that live very morally upright lives). In the end it doesn't matter because they have refused to believe the Jesus stories and for that they are condemned to eternal perdition in the afterlife. . .If morality makes sense only because of the afterlife, then why should it matter if all muslims go about killing people and forcing them to join their religion? After all they have already been condemned to eternal perdition in the afterlife for not accepting the Jesus story. . .Why should any non christian live morally upright life here on earth if morality makes sense only because of the after life since they have already been condemned for their unbelief?. . .Remember they will never accept the Jesus story, they have their own stories which also tells them that the Jesus story is a very false story, just the same way as you see theirs to be false. . .

If morality only makes sense because of the afterlife then you too will rot in allah's hell, you are already doomed in the afterlife, not because of how you acted morally and lived your life but because of your unbelief. . .You have no reason to live morally because of the fact that you refuse to accept allah's word(the Koran) and Mohammed his last messenger. . .whether you go about killing, cheating others, stealing causing pain to others, or doing the best charitable works on earth to see to it that you help alleviate the sufferings of others and better the environment and the human race as a whole, you are eternally doomed because of your unbelief. It doesn't matter at all . .I'll repeat again. . . If morality only makes sense because of the afterlife, then why does it matter that non christians who refuse to accept the Jesus story and believe it live morally upright lives( uncountable of them do live morally upright lives lives). . .Why should they since they have already been condemned in the afterlife?. . .Why should you as a non muslim live a morally upright life since you have been condemned in the afterlife to eternal torture for your unbelief in Allah and his last messenger, if morality only makes sense because of the afterlife?. . .Answer the question and stop running away from it. . .

MrAnony1: Good.


The assumption you have made is simply false and shows that you don't understand Christianity.

I understand christianity very well. . .ONLY those that believe in Jesus will be saved those that don't are doomed. . .Do you disagree with that?.Is that not what christiaity says? . .You are yet to show me that I don't understand christianity. . .

1. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). All are therefore rightfully condemned. You are welcome to refute this by showing one person who has never sinned (i.e. someone is completely morally pure).

2. Christ came and paid the price for our sins hence taking the condemnation on our behalf

3. As many as reject the fact that Christ paid the price for them are simply demanding to bear their condemnation upon themselves.
...hence John 3:16-18

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. - John 3:16-18


For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. - Romans 2:11-16

I asked you a simple question and all you did was to start explaining the christian theology that has NOTHING to do with what you said. . .You claim that morality only makes sense if their is life after death. . .You clearly agreed with me that only those that believe in Jesus will have access to good life after they die, those that don't will all perish. . .So my question is why should muslims, hindus, taoist, yazidi's, buddhists, ATR believers etc live morally upright lives since they have already condemned for not believing in Jesus?. . .Why should they live morally upright lives? It doesn't matter if they live morally upright lives, at the end they will perish so why should they live morally upright lives if morality only makes sense because of the after life which they have already been condemned?. . .You haven't even attempted to answer the question in anyway. . .

P/s: It was very interesting to observe how you quoted John 3:18 out of context completely ignoring the preceding verses which explain how[b] Christ did not come to condemn the world but to save it[/b].

You have started with your ways of claiming and ascribing to people statements they never made, I NEVER said Jesus came to condemn the world, all I have stated is that those who do not believe in Jesus are already condemned according to the bible. . .No where did I say that Jesus condemn the world, that is your own making. . .

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

If morality and living morally upright lives makes sense only because of the afterlife then why should muslims, atheist, taoists, hindus, taoist, yazidi's, buddhists, ATR believers, scientologist etc live moral upright lives since they have already been condemned to eternal perdition for not believing in Jesus. . .Why should it matter if a muslims goes about killing people here on earth, he doesn't belief in Jesus and is already condemed so why should he not kill?. . .What about hindus?. . .Why should they not go about raping, stealing, committing mass murder, no matter how good and ethical they live their lives, they have already been condemned for not believing in Jesus so why should they live moral upright lives since their unbelief already condemns them?. . .Again answer the question and stop running away from it. . .Why should it matter that a muslim or a hindu for example live morally upright here on earth since his unbelief in Jesus has already condemned him in the after life?. . .If morality only makes sense because of the after life then why should a non christian live morally since it doesn't matter in the end?. . .

MrAnony1: Erhm....I didn't just refuse to accept it. You haven't given me any reason to. You cannot say that you need to perform an action regardless of any outcome and then demand that I perform said action.


Actually no. If humans lived forever in this world, there will be no need to act in any particular manner because we will still live on forever anyway.


What exactly is the point when you and all the neighbours you live in peace with and develop knowledge for will still die and rot away even if you had lived in war and fulfilled all your desires.


How so?


I hope you realize that this does not come close to answering the question of why the way we live matters. Mind you, the life of a serial killer matters as much to him as the life of a philanthropist and both would equally find the idea of their own death distressing.
The question that still has not been answered is why one type of life is objectively better than the other seeing that the outcome is the same for both of them.


I would say that the worth of our activities have no relevance if it is a fact that we all share the same end in death.


It is possible to have false beliefs about the afterlife but that notwithstanding; you don't have a reason why ISIS shouldn't go around beheading people if that's what gives them meaning in life. After all, both the person who beheads people and the person who doesn't all die and rot away and are forgotten in the end. Why shouldn't ISIS murder people?

This is the question you first need to answer correctly before we go into any depth.





The reason why I haven't addressed your points is not because they are any good but because you haven't answered the questions that will give us a platform from which to engage with them. Before we argue about whether certain specific beliefs about the afterlife are moral or immoral, we must first establish whether a belief in the afterlife gives us reason to act morally.


This is empty ideology and devoid of fact. According to Darwin's theory of evolution, all creatures flourish by eliminating the weak and preserving the strong who then pass on their genes to the next generation. Or do you reject Darwin's theory of evolution as false?



Questions like this show that you don't know what moral laws are.


Actually you are wrong. In reality there is a transcendent moral law giver. If humans are moral givers everywhere they find themselves, then boko haram and ISIS are right to behead people because they have given themselves the moral laws of their choosing.


And I asked you if you would at least grant the possibility of true and false religions. If you don't think that a true religion is possible then there is no point in answering your question if you believe that all religions are false


And I too will keep repeating my answer. I am not running away. I am happy to answer you as soon as you demonstrate that understand the basics of what is being talked about.
Why is my worldview (which you have misrepresented by the way) wrong if there is no afterlife such that in the end whether or not I hold unto it, we will all still die and rot away and be forgotten?

Ok, I agree, people have no reason to act morally unless if there is life after death, now you tell me, why should non christians act morally since they have already been condemned to eternal perdition in the after life for their unbelief, no matter how good and morally upright non believer in the christian religion lives his/her life, he/she has already been doomed and condemned to eternal perdition for his/her unbelief, so tell me, why should any unbeliever in the christian religion act morally if acting morally only makes sense because of the after life?. . .Don't run away. . . just answer it. . .

So also are those who do not believe in the Allah's last messenger. . . .