₦airaland Forum

SilverSniper:
Sure, it also says that, but I highlighted it in the context of what an Alaafin himself said to a British official about the past relations simply as a response to that particular statement from TAO (in the post I quoted) about the two kings. The British official doesn't say what his source is for that part of his account about descent anyway, whereas his source for his other statement is an Alaafin.

Does that negate or make the descent statement inadmissible?

I believe if bias and partiality were put under review no kingdom in Nigeria enjoyed partiality and bias of the early explorers and colonial prejudice than Benin.

Writers who could not point to it on map or had a clue what color of people lived there or whether it was a valley or a mountain painted all sorts of Alice in Wonderland tales and packaged these as authorities on Benin.

Oyo did not receive an European visit till 1842.

Ife was never visited by an explorer till 1942.



In all practicality Benin turned out to be a village compared with Ife and Oyo.

Substance vs form!

United Empire said a lot...

Should its saying about power relations be regarded credible, its revelations of descendancy will equally qualify.

samuk:
If that is what you believe, then go and tell TAO11 on the other thread instead of running away like a coward.

Besides I don't know what political strength you are referring to.

Did you see any of the Benin being ask to shut up and leave the thread by their fellow Benin people.

The problem with you guys is you lack the confidence to stand on your own argument without calling for help from your tribes people.

It's not a competition for you to win a medal or price.

Immediately TAO11 disagrees with what you have written here, you will quickly change and say you were only joking like before.

You still have not responded to what deBarros said.

Benin does not breathe unless a superior king to the East say so.

Who is this all-mighty king and where in the East?

SilverSniper:
I am familiar with what Crowther asserted and what Johnson claimed as well (though neither of them might be completely impartial sources). That's not new to me but my point with that quote is that one monarchy being "above" another politically in the past can't simply be determined by recollections of popular myths, legends, etc. if practical reality on the ground pointed to something different.

My own view is that at one point Benin was more powerful than Oyo, then Benin's power declined (due to civil war), then Oyo was more powerful than Benin, then Oyo's power declined (due to a civil war - an Alafin of Oyo in the early 1800s told a British explorer, Hugh Clapperton, that "he had sent to his friend the king of Benin for troops to assist him" in his attempt to defeat the rebels) and then Benin was again more powerful (though not as relatively powerful as it had been in the past), then not long after Nigeria was eventually conquered and annexed by the British.

I don't think a story like that one (in which Oranmiyan doesn't return to Ife after establishing his son Ajaka as the first Alafin - so it is actually different from variations on it that I have read in the past) that can be used to determine historical power relations.

You have to give measure to what you call "powerful".

Powerful by Olfert Dapper's standard, or powerful by conquests?

Bring the quote from Alaafin to Clapperton here. Cite it

Look, who are the mods here abeg? This thread should go on front page

This is very educative for Benins to learn.


Cc
Odumchi

Please move to front page.

Covid-99
End time husband!

Cc
Rekhina come see

Macof,
Come and take ya village Igwe comot for here naa! He is messing up big time!!

kayfra:
Translation to the sane people amongst us.

You are creative and can pull sh!t out of your a$$

Kayfra,
I didnt even see this. Are you serious?

Pal, stop objecting for sake of scoring points. You can never break that word group down into its multiple components the way he did.

If you have no dignified input to give then kindly skip.

Oranmiyan is father of Oba Benin and Alaafin.

Oba Benin is senior to Alaafin in birth. Alaafin is senior to Oba Benin in political strength.

We respect Oba Benin and accept him as our son and are proud of him.

It is you Edos that do disservice to his throne by trying relentlessly to humiliate him with false information about his lineage and root.

You are his liability. We are an asset to him.

Samuk, show up and argue your Benin inferiority here.

According to Acholonu -

Two divine Kings existed in South.

Oduduwa
Eri.

Any other one is inferior to these.

samuk:
Please tell me how Idu was Oduduwa and Eri.

I said clearly what Acholonu said.

Go to that thread, we will iron it out.

On this thread here, you are defeated.

Accept your inferior Benin and move on to the other thread for a repeat beating.

Dont mess up this thread i love it the way it is.

samuk:
People can see that I am doing a good job addressing and enjoying Metaphysical jokes.

Do you need a pair of glasses to see better.

Please don't come and spoil my fun. Are you a kill joy.

You are defeated. Now you want to turn it to personal attacks.

Where is your Benin superiority now?

Tell me....where is Benin superiority?

I swear if I were Edo I would not allow my King to sit in this gathering.

It validates and reinforces every written and oral records that says Benin is inferior to Ife.

If no one ever believed de Barros, seeing this picture they will believe him now.

Pictures dont lie!

Benin is inferior to Ife!

Prince Charles returned to put the record in picture.

samuk:
Oduduwa is now Idu. It this another joke? If it is, it's very funny. How confused can one person be.

Interesting

Idu has always been a Yoruba word.
Do you not know?

kayfra:
You are מטומטם

I am Rabbi Metaphysical
Consider its cognate with Yoruba..

I am Araba Metaphysical.

Yoruba is Canaanite!

See lamentation caused by pain!

Samuk, you are inferior to Ife.
Accept!

samuk:
So are you now abandoning your Edo migrated from Onitsha joke. Let us know that you were also joking.

That thread is very painful to you. See as you are crying about it.

From any angle you look at it ....Benin is Inferior!

samuk:
Metaphysical actually created another joke thread claiming Edo migrated from Onitsha, he was looking for Igbo for support, I chased him out of that thread, so he came here to carry on joking.

He said Oghene or Ogane could be the Igbo Eri

Looking for Igbo support I see!
So what you guys do online is source for support. It makes sense now why you open 10 threads all about Benin vs Yoruba......because you are looking for support.

The thread i opened was to go through East to see where that road would lead. Go and read what i typed from Acholonu's submission.

There were two Idu
Oduduwa
Eri.

No where was Benin mentioned.

The evidence does not need support....it needs ACCEPTANCE!

gomojam:
TAO11 we ma sofo omo. Wa gbo Wa pe we ni raun we ni rago. Nain nain ko se mo e lara be. Wo se omo iye mi.

It's prayer (sorry I had to use my native dialect cos am overjoyed)

Ase!!!

I second that prayer. She killed it....over and over and over.

I am yet to see anyone with a superior submission and meticulously organized evidence has TAO has done.

I just dont know how to reward her but I would love to. Deserves it!

TAO11:
Exactly, I already showed him how slow he was not to have realized that the joke was on him.

The message was clear in 14th century, it was clear in 15th century, it did not change in 16th century, it was revalidated in 17th century, it remained same in 18th century, Britosh arrived in 19th century and acknowledged the five centuries old tradition, 20th century gave us a new political identity but the message was stubborn and would not budge....here we are in 21st century and it still hasnt changed.....Benin is inferior to Ife!

Portuguese said it
Dutch said it
French said it
Spanish said it
Edos said it
Yoruba said it
Ijaw said it
Itsekiri said it
Nupe said it
Igala said it
Igbo said it
Urhobo said it

Prince Charles had to even come back and picture it!

Can you see what Oranmiyan saw with their ancestors and why he concluded these are savages that should have been left in their naykedness in forest?

samuk:
Too late, gregyboy has already screenshot your comments saying the English man Willie and anyone that believes him is stupid and that makes TAO11 stupid by your submission.

Your retraction is as low as it could get from a very cowardly and shameless individual.

In your dismissal of the Orun Oba Ado, you were even more emphatic than the Benins themselves.

I am happy everyone can now see the sort of characters we are dealing with here on nairaland.

Hahahahahahaha..... ;

You are happy to grip tightly to that.


Hey, so who is the superior to your Oba that deBarros talked about? I want to know.

DeBarros is one of the most trusted portuguese you have bragged partnership with.

Mmeehhhn....he did you all wrong with that truthful recording.

That superior/inferior relationship is the bottomline of everything else that Benin stands for. You are nobody where Ife is.

samuk:
Below is what Metaphysical said about how stupid your Orun Oba Ado fallacy is

MetaPhysical:


You are still uncivilized gregyboy, still very uncivilized!

There are rites performed at succession to thrones and the new king takes a sacred oath over the body of the predecessor. This oath seals the continuity of dynasty. Once the predecessor is put into ground his remains can never, and must never, again come out. Its a taboo to exhume a king. This is reason they are never buried in cemetry.

If you exhume the heads of kings their successors will perish.

Willett was told by your chiefs in Edo the tradition of sending the head of your Oba for burial in Ife. Willett went to Ife and corroborated the story. He asked to see the site and it was shown to him. He went about digging the sites looking for buried heads. What a foolish Englishman! Did he expect the people to break their taboos because an Englishman wanted to prove their account? The most absurd request!

The fact that both side corroborate same account should be enuff.

Your elders say its tradition in Benin, Ife say its tradition but your forest-roaming instinct wants a dig.

People are not reckless like you and Willett.

I defer to what TAO has said on Orun Oba Ado.

My account on that subject is inferior to his....like Benin is inferior to a Priest-King.

ValCon888:
You came into another land and they welcomed you with open arms. Only for you to abuse their hospitality and kill their King.
I cannot understand how a man can be this wicked.

Amazing!

Fatunla was not even guilty of what he accused him....but he killed him anyway.

Yoruba got to wake up! All these we are open and accomodating nonsense is for past times when children could play outside all day long and no anxiety about their dissapearance. Nowhere is safe today. We also dont have a culture police to enforce and make people in our communities conform to our ethos.

We are living in a Nigerian cultural ethos which has zero definition and very very fluid.

Yoruba need a better than "we are accomodating" response in the middle of all these chaos going on.

Take covid as a best practice.

When their lives and society depend on it, didnt every open and liberal champions of civilization shut their border and foced a zero tolerance on free movement now?

Toor! Yoruba, wake the fvk up!

iammo:



Who even made Wike a Lawyer

perhaps we need to google , copy and paste the Exclusive and Concurrent list to him so that he can know his powers as a state administrator, he doesn't even have powers to block federal roads without due approval of FG, not to talk of Local Aviation Industry servicing Oil and Gas Industry our top forex earner

how much I miss Obasanjo as the President.. not only would Wike be detained next time he visits Abuja at the Airport, his allocation would be seized, Alams and Ibori didn't even do up to this

which Investor would foolishly invest in a state which shows this much hate to revenue earning company because its CEO is an In Law to Mo Abudu, and Mo Abudu is Rotimi Ameachi's associate

.

The mention of concurrent list and all that nonsense is to intimidate. The issue here has nothing to do with legislative power.

The state governor identified a public health issue and declared a safety guidelines to keep citizens safe and out of harm's way.

While I think Wike could have managed the issue with more maturity, the FG is condescending and talking down on him with arrogance.

There is nothing here pertaining to exclusive list....Wike has not issued any policy relating to aviation or flights. He has called for public safety, which he is authorized to invoke.

What commercial activities are these pilots engaged in that would offset the loss in oil revenue?

Sirika said Rivers is the biggest beneficiary of oil revenue. Really??

Thats new!!!

Are they pumping oil in North now?


All Southerners need to stand on Wike side.

Enough of these mallams talking any kind of way to people.

Wike needs to respect himself too and stop acting like an ex militant.

They find reason to talk to him like that after observing him talk to his own people recklessly.

Im sure they cannot address any Gov in West in that manner. Why address one in South like he is their houseboy?

Bullshyyyte!!

Kayfra,
You can go through this entire thread and will see all kinds of jabs back and forth. Please lets keep responses clean and respectful. Jabs are ok but no curses and demeaning words or use of vulgar.

We are all still brothers, even if you are yanminri and im yoruba.

...or maybe Im sabaruma.

The eba and egusi governor.

Dedetwo:
I hope the above crap is not one of the effects of the Wuhan virus (COVID-19). How could China colonize Yari.ba without the shithole called Nigeria.

When I saw the video and the biafran and chinese speaking Igbo I said this must be dede exchanging banter with his chinese master in Ariaria.

Nwannem, kedu!

AuthenticNG:
https://authenticng.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/How-To-Start-A-Pure-Water-Business-in-Nigeria.jpg

Nnamdi Kanu as usual unraveled that very soon Nigeria will start importing Pure water just as they imported Chinese Medical team to Nigeria for Coronavirus.

The Indigenous People Of Biafra leader faulted the Nigeria decision to bring in the 15 Man Chinese Medical Team in Nigeria for the Fight against Covid-19- coronavirus.

Nnamdi Kanu went forward in a Facebook post on Wednesday night, pointed out that while the French doctors, who said the new vaccine should be tested in Africa, were open and honest, the Chinese government was cunning.

Kanu warned that the coming of the Asian doctors would be disastrous, saying that he received from an anonymous that once any person or group of persons were injected with whatever substance the Chinese brought with them, an entire community will become infected with the Coronavirus.

According to the IPOB leader, what the Chinese have with them are experiental drugs not even cleared for clinical trial in China which should not be in Nigeria.

READ FULL/SOURCE: https://authenticng.com/nnamdi-kanu-nigeria-start-importing-pure-water/

What concerns Kanu with Nigeria?

Why is a Biafran worried about Nigeria? Abi Kanu want develop Nigeria ni?

I reproduced it in clearer texts.

That document supports what you said in Eri being a Priest-King.

I had thought it was Arochuckwu that had Priest-Kings.

The point is a King in the East was above Oba of Benin in supremacy.

We said it couldn't be East....that the King was actually West, not East. But Edos themselves said no that we are wrong. They pointed us to what a Portuguese man said in mid-1500s and said the man was accurate.

That accuracy is what Im exploring. It seems to be yielding fruits based on that document. That was produced by Catherine Acholonu.

I know the Easterners have always said Edos migrated out of Onitsha going by narratives of Olaudah Equaino. What pushed Benin to prominence was contact with Portuguese and Dutch.....and if that contact had not been there Edo would be nobody.

It is beginning to make sense now. However, there is a missing link.

The missing link is the seat of power of that Superior King in East with brass cross. I opened this thread for that discovery.

Thanks for highlighting Eri. From that hint I found Acholonu's document. Read it yourself, it says a lot.

It did not once attribute any divine or kingship power to Bini as a founding member or even a principal source of divine authority from the source in Niger-Benue. It said Oduduwa and Eri held supremacy.

The document even took information from a son of Edo who wrote a book called Great Benin Classics and the book pointed to Supremacy elsewhere, not Benin.

So it agrees again with the claim that what made Benin great was contact with Europeans....among its peers in the native region Benin was inferior, and this agrees with the account of numerous writers, of European origin themselves.

OgboAto:
Isn't Nyfe some other name used for Nupe/Tapa?

That was assumed.

The first account of Nyffe appeared in relation to its Statehood and was passed on by Arabs in Massina (present day Mali). These Arabs were first to document history of the people of Sudan belt and produced maps of who was where in the belt.
They served as source of knowledge for the new Fulani States in Hausaland.

Before Sokoto sacked Hausa Kings Priest-Kings controlled City-States in the Sudan.

Crossing from about 1750 to 1880 rapid wars across the belt had transformed the landscape and put power in hands of Imperial-Kings. One of these was Oyo.

Oyo had surpassed Ife as central authority on Yoruba politics.

Arabs knew Yoruba as Nyffe and made the record of their roots in Canaan.

Sokoto which rose to power much later behind the Arab travellers knew Yoruba as Oyo.

In relating the history of Yoruba to Clapperton in Sokoto in 1824, Sultan Bello described the people, their history, their landscape and their political relationship with Muslims.

Clapperton returned in 1825 to tour from coast upward to desert and see the Niger.

He came in through Badagry. He visited Egba and Abeokuta.

Well Abeokuta was a resettlement....a city of refuge for the Egba, Owu, who were defeated in Yoruba political conflicts and were chased out of their original towns in hinterland.

These internal wars and others with external opponents was responsible for the quick emergence of Oyo as Yoruba State.

Sultan did not mention Nupe as a State. The history of Nyffe as a State and remnants of a Canaan stock is inconsistent with Nupe origin, which was an offshoot of Igala.

The old capital of Nupe was Raba. It was Fulani that relocated it to Bida.

Clapperton visited Raba but did not reconcile it with what he was told by Sultan a year before, as he did in recollection on his visit to Oyo.

In fact, he linked the grandeur of Statehood in Oyo with that of the King's palace in Mali and mused about their consistency in observing protocols.

So, the identity of Nyffe in old Mali continued as a tradition, changing reference but never loosing form and target through the periods of contacts from Arabs and Moors to Sultan of Sokoto and later Clapperton.