₦airaland Forum

andrew444:
You expect victor moses to bench sterling that he met there abi ? Someone that is overrated by the British media abi ,home grown talent for that matter .

And VicMo was having serious injury concerns then. It is natural that hr would find it difficult to get back to the team.

BascoVanVeli:
The same Sterling that kept Victor Moses out of the team?

Good God, which decent player wouldn't keep VicMo out of the team during that period that he was plagued by injuries? At West Ham a host of players also kept Sterling on the bench.

By the way the point is that Sterling was the dispensable part of that front three. Of all the strikers and midfielders in the team he had the least influence

bazooka1:
This is not true. Sterling/Suarez partnership was a Gerrard slip away from the Premiership title.
Calling him a headless chicken is abit over board.

And Sturridge was in the background frying akara all along abi? Back then Sterling was just any other player in Liverpool while Suarez and Sturridge took all the headlines

andrew444:
I am not telling you of sterling at Liverpool.

I am telling you of sterling of mancity first 2 seasons before pep arrive ,the guy was crap he didn't live up to the things they saw at Liverpool till guardiola arrived ,go and check the stats and see for your self

Dude was not even that good at Liverpool. It was actually Suarez/Sturridge combo that kept Liverpool ticking not Sterling

bazooka1:
You guys give Guardiola too much credit for the development of Diaz, Foden and Zinchenko.
Man city spent over £200 million on their ultra morden academy. They didn't spend that much on facilities alone just for keep sake.
Even at that, none of these guys have breached the Man city first eleven and Diaz have since left for Real Madrid who do not consider him ready for first team football.

Diaz has already made his debut for Madrid and it is a long season with Madrid still in the hunt for all three trophies he will get a lot more minutes so I don't know why you think Madrid do not consider him good enough for the first team.

That Man City academy was there when Mancini took over, how many players did he and Manuel Pelligrini promote? Kudos to Pelligrini for promoting Nacho, but that's about it.

By the way a season is a long long period, so long as you are in the first team you are vital. Zinchenko has been absolutely immense, at some point Delph was suspended and with Mendy injured Zinchenko played and was brilliant. Foden has started a lot games. So too Diaz. When Mendy got injured other clubs would have gone all out to buy another left back instead Pep converted Delph and promoted a B team player. I am not sure what you are on about but if you think Guardiola's success is down to money then you have not been following him at all.

TheGoodJoe:
I think you left out Joshua Kimmich who Guardiola gave his Bundesliga debut and molded an icon at a young age.

You know they will start saying that he already played in division 2 blah blah blah. Because I should add Sane who was not exactly half as good as he is now back then at Schalke

peterd53:
Bro add Joshua kimmich. Pep brought him from a lowly division two side and gave him his breakthrough

People wey sabi. Thank you

komekn:
You think he is better than Ighalo, Simi or Musa.

Because we really don't score from crosses our strikers don't move with the anticipation because they know there will be no delivery.

When it comes to aerial prowess, Ighalo would be having a negative rating. No way is he close to Oshimen in that regard. At least judging from his previous games I have seen

Earthquake1:
Begin

At Barca: Cuenca, Bojan, Thiago, Busquets and Pedro. Iame guessing you probably don't know Cuenca but check him up, he has a couple of classico goals and would have been a major hit if not for injuries. In fact let me go all out and add Sergi Roberto, Rafinha, Tello, Batra and this Everton dude. Admittedly he wasn't the one that gave Bojan his first team debut but he promoted him to the first team squad properly.

Bayern: In Bayern it was rather difficult because over the years Bayern's policy has always been to suck the other teams dry while building their own pool. Apart from Muller I am not sure any Bayern youth team player has been promoted since....1999.


Man City: I already mentioned Diaz, Foden and Zinchenko. Let me throw in Pablo Maffeo

jihday:
I'm surprised how he's managed to fool the football fraternity, since he joined City I can't name one academy player he's turned to a great player all the players he's used are already stars going for huge amount, he's good tho but he's no super manager hence I call him Fraudiola

Zinchenko and Diaz. I can name others, in fact I can name at least five academy players from each club he has handled who performed very well due to his influence

bazooka1:
Those drop in numbers actually saw Barcelona gradually walk away from their famed ticki tacka to a more direct approach.
They weren't comfortable with the idea, they panicked and sacked Enrique even after winning a treble.
That was the story.

Enrique was not sacked

Earthquake1:
Finidi George, Emenalo, Olofinjana

People that are actually coaching

Emenalo that got sacked by Monaco?
Bro he is not a coach, you should first of all call coaches before you call someone who isn't a coach. Anyways everyone knows that these guys aren't half as good as Siasia but that is not the argument now, how are you sure they will choose on merit?

tbaba1234:
I do not want Siasia anywhere near under 23. I want a coach that would pick the best players.

So which coach would pick the best players exactly?

wayodude:
The fact is that in 2012 he had every chance of still qualifying the team for that AFCON. All this talk about he didn't lose any game is rubbish. In group qualifiers most times a draw is just as bad as a loss. He drew away to Ethiopia and at home to Guinea. Had he won either of these games we would have qualified.

IMO he would have probably lost away to Guinea too.

You have already lost your first match against the other top team in the group, that has already put you in a bad position. What makes you think he wouldn't have defeated Guinea? Mind you we are not even bringing into play the fact that he took the job in October, his first match was against the Ethiopians in March which we won, no friendly was played until the return leg in June which we drew. Is that what you call time to build a team? No matter how good a coach is, you can't bring him into a qualifying campaign and expect a smooth ride, before a prooer qualifying series starts, a normal team should play friendlies first to try out strategies for home and away games. His first match was a hine game which we won 4-0, that was his first time on the job and he did not know how away games are played in Africa, put into consideration the geographical location of Ethiopia and that was his first time there and then we went there and we drew. From then on we knew nothing but excellent wins up till that Guinea game. Again let me repeat what edi287 has already said: Emenike, Osaze and Aiyenugba killed us on the day. I can remember like three good chances one of them he fell down instead of just putting the ball into the back of the net. The tactics were spot on, execution from midfield and defence was perfect but when your strikers have decided not to score what can a coach do? It later turned out that Osaze was an Enyeama loyalist hence the shambolic display, I'd rather not go into that now. Then God save us with Aiyenugba, I would have kept out those two goals we conceded, in this instance there is absolutely no way you can blame Siasia at all.

edi287:
Mikel had good games as an AM with us under Amodu. At AFCON 08, he was one of the few players that gave a good account of himself. During the WC qualifiers under Amodu, he was good too.
I remember Amodu saying he was versatile and had the intelligence to adjust to playing AM for us and DM for Chelsea.
You can credit Keshi with rejuvenating his NT career when it looked like he was on the wane - but I wouldn't say he utilized him the best as an AM when he mostly played as a DLP under him.

Wasn't Berti Vogts our coach to the '08 AFCON?

Humility017:
Lolll

then siasia is not a good coach...
severally amodu was called in to qualify the super eagles and he was never found wanting in those regard...

same way Oliver Gunar...is doing with Manchester united...the few matches he has anchored he drew or lost none...
someone like siasia will lose even the first match and thereafter cry that he was never given enough time....

that's a lame excuse...a coach ought to have an emergency tactics just to bail him out when necessary....He even claim against guinea that he never knew that drawing that match would have qualified the super eagles...

to show how ignorant he is...he was so unprepared for the super eagles...and still not prepared up till now...

he believes his only way to be a successful coach is by having to coach the super eagles...
amunike has learn move out of his comfort done got a job elsewhere and he is doing fine though currently going through son rough paths...
but siasia still waiting for the super eagles job...
please let's shelve this discussion...even ogunbote is far ahead of him now...I will prefer him to siasia

Bros how many qualifying games has Siasia actually lost as a coach for the SE? I am waiting

Icon4s:
My bad. Egypt hosted and won it in 1986. CIV hosted in 1984.

Yes Siasia took over from Eguavoen from the third game. We were 3pts behind Guinea then. Even going into the last game we were still behind Guinea with 3pts. We earlier lost 1 nil in conakry but Guinea opened scoring in Abuja. And so the permutations were if we win Guinea 2-1 we qualify but not as group leader but as one of the best second placed teams. We win 3-1 we qualify as group winners. At 2-1 we were cruising to the AFCON along with Guinea but Siasia failed to secure what he had first and was trying to get a 3rd. That Guinea equalizer was a swift counter attack. Aiyenugba failed us that day and that was his last game.

An experienced coach would have known how to deal with that kind of situation. Siasia's inexperience was really exposed. He was good as a youth team coach but not as a senior coach. We took a Gamble and it back-fired against us

What will an experienced coach do about Aiyenugba's shambolic display? I have seen Sia1's teams playing it safe a number of times, what if genuinely he didn't know that we needed a 2-1 with yo qualify? Even Yobo came out to say they didn't know they needed that, maybe the logistics team of the NFF told him something different? Oh you didn't think that one, but if Rohr fields a suspended Shehu then it is the fault of the NFF abi? Double standards Oga, double standards. I'd rather not reveal all the secrets that I know about that particular period like the reason why Odewinge was missing open nets because it is rather personal, however the real blame should be going to the NFF for not properly educating the coach.

Humility017:
egbon siasia flopped twice in that regard...
you don't expect anyone to Give you the super eagles job easily...
you've to fight for it... he failed to seize one of those opportunities to get the job...

that was what happened to zidane... he seized the opportunity and cement his grip on the job same way Oliver solkjaser is doing with Manchester united...
though there different scenarios...
I am just sayn...SiaONE have no excuses..

he messed up

For reference purpose
The first match of that qualifiers was handled by Eguavoen. We won 2-0. The second match which was a loss to Guinea(our only loss on the qualifying stage) was under Eguavoen. If not for that loss we would have gone the entire qualifying process without a loss. Why are you all blindly and unjustifiably blaming Sia1 for the mistakes of Eguavoen? I must applaud Sia2 though, knowing Nigerians he shouldn't have accepted that shambolic 2012 qualifying process when he actually did. Now people like you go about saying rubbish like he was the one that failed when his team did not lose a single match. Heck Rohr has lost to SA mind you, that is actually worse than Sia1's record in that qualifying process.

OK after the Shehu debacle you all have decided to blame the NFF,good and fine. But why are you all not blaming the NFF for not telling Sia1 that we needed only a win to qualify? What if someone had actually told him that we needed that two goals victory? I mean we all knew that the NFF was against Sia1, it was public knowledge then so it isn't impossible. Next time get your facts straight Oga

Kog45:
Siasia is good but remember that we failed to qualify for 2012 due to Eguavoen inept against Guinea in Conakry.Oiseh left the team when it matter most in 2017 and Siasia took over.Pls give Siasia eagles job from the scratch and see a solid team.

Boss,point of correction,1986 AFCON was hosted by Egypt and i remember we lost to Zambia by 1 nil and drew at home in 1985 and this nailed our participation.

I was shocked when he said Sia1 took charge of the entire qualification campaign because no one has ever given Sia1 that spot. I remember he took over from someone in 2012, thank you for reminding us all but here he is saying Sia1 should be sacked for failing to qualify when the job was already difficult and without enough time, but then when we ask why our dear SE were so poor in the world cup he will say Rohr needs time, double standards at it's peak

maidaboi:
yes I did
any problem?

Bro no offence eh, but na black and white TV you dey use?

bobobooge:
I am glad you have commented from an unbiased angle. I love that.

That Rohr factor is what they have denied or tried to water down.

According to thegoodjoe,

"Rohr is getting more praise than he deserves"

That sounds like a travesty.

Because we all know our story before Rohr came in.

They have even gone ahead and criticized his style of game.

They said Libya and SA shit on us

These to me are arguments I cannot leave to fly without countering.

Rohr so far has one of the best records qualifying us for the WC and AFCON.

Today we can boast of beating top African teams by margins of 3-0 or 4-0. Just a while back many of us would not dream of this.

I am one of the ardent supporters of Rohr's conservative approaches I.e vs SA.

We have seen adventurous coaches I.e Siasia throw away qualifications (2012) because they do not know how to be conservative when necessary.

Rohr's conservative approach has built us into a massive defensive machine. One of our problems in recent past. Rohr's team even work on defending set pieces.

I dare way we are on the right track with Rohr and the team he is building will be a tough but to crack come 2022.


Glory 2022! WC on an African soil, Nigeria!

Under Keshi we defeated Mali 4-1 in ana actual tournemant and in the semifinal by the way. Even Oliseh pummeled Cameroon 3-0, Siaone was using Aregbtina for kolanut.

charlesemeka85:
i never for once told you rohr developed them. the duty of a senior national team coach is to assemble a good team with the players in his disposal. when ezekiel imoh was blazzing hot in belgium how long did it take keshi to give him a chance? instead he took from the same belgian league a player who had less fancied figures to that of imoh to the world cup. what was the form of sone aluko prior to 2013 afcon when he was with ranger of scotland? your keshi preferred uzoenyi to sone who was the best in the colors of glasgow rangers and one of the best in the league. haruna lukman was doing very well in ukraine in the colors of dynamo kiev but keshi preferred to take an injured gabriel reuben to the afcon. taiye taiwo was still balling in the same club with haruna and ideye and was miles better than echiejile and oshanwa why wasnt he atleast given a chance to fight for a shirt during the afcon preparation?

So why blame Keshi for where Oboabona and co are presently? He assembled all of them in 2013 and won the AFCON, beating the best teams by the way. So that was the best he could give.

The simple point is Keshi wasn't a saint no doubt, Imoh might have been a mistake although he didntbexactly light up the Olympics when he played there but OK, however Rohr also has his own issues, worse as a matter of fact. See Ezenwa getting invited? Look at Shehu persistently starting ahead of Aina and Ebuehi? Look at Iheanacho getting game time ahead of say Success and Onyekuru? Definitely Iheanacho will come good in his career, it is still young but him still playing when we have an array of better players is criminal in my opinion. So when it comes to favoritism Rohr is worse than Keshi.

PS: I remember Haruna was invited once and he was so poor I couldn't help but laugh at all those who wanted him in. Keshi dodged a bullet there.

bobobooge:
Here are the stats.

https://www.livescore18.com/football-match/Southafrica-vs-Nigeria/summary-1393574

Libya 2 vs 3 Nigeria

How were we exactly ran down like you claim? Because you seem to be giving Libya the moral victory.

Kindly note that if we play SA and Libya 2 more times, they still will not win us.

We have beaten reigning African champs Cameron. We have deflated Algeria. We almost bamboozled Argentina. We shit on Iceland.

Our recent team is all-round better than the team that capitulated to Croatia. We now have exciting additions like Kalu, Chwukwueze. Even Iwobi is refurbished and has his game raised higher than at the world cup.

All these exploits under Rohr.

So back to the initial question,

From an unbiased lens, how exactly did Libya shit on us based on these stats.


@ charlesemeka85
You are very much on point bro. I could never have argued better.

They want to belittle Rohr's impact on the team as if even Westerroff would have beaten Croatia and Argentina with the inexperienced team Rohr handled




https://www.livescore18.com/football-match/Southafrica-vs-Nigeria/summary-1393574

From your stats Libya did create more chances than us, they has more shots on and off target than we did and after watching that game you'd know that the chances were clean chances. Thank you for making my point for me, I am grateful. So when Libya is creating more chances than us for me that means they played better than us, maybe outplayed is a little bit far but they played better than us, Libya that does not have a home ground mind you

We almost bamboozled Argentina? How? Our goal was spotkick and they deserved the victory because when the time came for coaches to be counted Rohr was found wanting. Almost means absolutely nothin, we almost defeated Italy in a round of 16 game with inexperienced players but that counts for nothing brother, actually Westerhof took an inexpereicned team to the world cup and got to the round of 16, beating better teams so yes a good coach with inexeperieced players can defeat that Croatian team, I mean a team that did not win a single game in the knockout phases of the competition.

TheGoodJoe:
That last South African game left me feeling bitter. It was so disappointing and I felt bad spending time watching such atrocious display.

I have not watched that game again since that day, that's how bad it was for me

charlesemeka85:
hahahahahahaha you mean the nff brought in aina and idowu and forced them on rohr?

How many matches has Aina played? He is generally not in Rohr's plan

Idowu is currently a bench warner, Rohr was using him because when the desirable is not available..... Now he is back to the bench. The point of the matter is that these guys had their switch of allegiance sponsored by the NFF. It is a different thing when a coach specifically asks for a particular player but in the case of Aina it was Pinnick that did it all, the records are there, that was the gebesisi of the Innit boys

charlesemeka85:
bros which match are you talking about? pre rohr's era the match is not yet played? a match we won the first stanza 2 nil and the libyan's bounced bank and equalized before ighalo scored the late winner? the same libya that south africa couldn't win home and away but was raped in uyo by rohr and his boys? oga shift abeg.

i am not saying rohr is the best and have failed few times tactically but i commend him so far for the work he has put in since taking up the coaching responsibility of the team. did you ever believe we will qualify from a group that had algeria,cameroon and zambia without losing a single game enroute to the world cup? did you ever believed that after the south african defeat in uyo that the team will bounce back and qualify with a game remaining? common! rohr is not the best and have saw many flaws but lets give him credit for what he has been able to achieve with the team so far

I did specifically mention that 2-3 win, do you argue that Libya did not create better chances than us? That is all I want to hear from you, yes or no.

We have qualified from tougher groups over the years. Maximum kudos to Rohr for doing that but when the real game started at the world cup, we ran back to our owners with our tails between our legs, we were severely exposed as below average.

About the AFCON group, we have never lost to SA before, and the other teams are Libya and Seychelles, no disrespect to them but they are ball boys, farmers parading as footballers. Our qualification was more down to SA's inefficiencies than our superior abilities. Do you know that we actually did not defeat SA? They won the first leg and the other was a draw. Just that they couldn't finish off Libya and Seychelles or we would be two points behind them

charlesemeka85:
where i fault keshi is he didnt have the foresight to prepare the team for the future which backfired when we failed to qualify for afcon back to back. what do you expect when 60% of the players he gave a chance in the team were age cheats who have been recycled from one local club to another in the local league but ignored emerging talents who would have remained relevance for more years to come?

for your information rohr brought in the likes of ebuehi,idowu,aina,collins,onyekuru,chukwueze,uzoho,oshimeh,ajayi and is on the look out searching for more talents

For the record, the NFF brought in Aina and Idowu, IIRC the move to tie down Ebuehi started even before Rohr was invited but I am not sure about that one though.

Keshi invited Musa, he is still playing. Onazi, still active. I can list others but I would have to waste time browsing them right now. From all the players you listed three are U17 special talents so definitely they would have gotten there, some have not even done enough in the GWG to justify their invitation ahead of better players, then do you know how long it took to invite Onyekuru? And how many games has he played? This not a comparison at all as there is absolutely no way you can compare Keshi's achievements to that of Rohr, Keshi trumps any day of the week, the point is like theGoodJoe already said, the U17 has increased drastically our pool of players, Rohr isn't the special guy developing anybody

charlesemeka85:
which match did libya outplayed us and why are you bringing arsenal as a reference point here? when was the last time nigeria qualified for afcon? lastly who are the world class players you presume we have? bros no allow sentiment blind you. no super eagles player not making caf team of the year is a testament that our current crop of player are not what we hype them to be

I am trying to find the stats from that game, that is why I hate African football it is so hard to get the stats but I am certain Libya had more shots that we did, created way better chances than we did and could have easily won that game 5-3, in fact I mentioned it here that with a better strike they would have taken us to the cleaners. Maybe yiy should try to rewatch the match though

After the shambolic display against Libya and SA what we were told is that so long as he is getting results no problems. Arsenal were getting results not long ago but now people have noticed they aren't that good since the results don finish, hence the comparison.

You do not need to have world class players to make a decent team. A bunch of average players in every position is good enough to make a good team. If you need world class players then Japan shouldn't be qualifying for the second round of the world cup. We have average players no doubt, I say that a lot but with better coaching and proper tactics, a decent team can be made out of these average players.

Ughh what are you saying about AFCON??

charlesemeka85:
and where are tested oboabona,mba,egwueke,uzoenyi,kwambe,agbim,oshaniwa,reuben today?

Sorry, do you know where Chukwueze, Awoniyi, Collins(who else has Rohr even added to the team?) will be in a few years time? So Keshi was supposed to see into the future before inviting them? The point is at the 2013 AFCON and the 2014 World Cup these guys played and they played very well, I don't understand how it is Keshi's fault that their careers nosedived

bobobooge:
Salisu's team is basic and limited.

Tell me what impact the U17 and academies success played in the following;

1. Solving the RB problem with the addition of Collins and Idowu

2. Solving the GK problem after Carl fell sick

3. Bringing strict competition with the call up of the likes of Sanrenren bazee, Ebuehi etc?

My point:
The success of Rohr's team is beyond the recent successes of our U17s and academies. Give him kudos for his input.

Let me take up your questions.

1) Remember Rohr actually started playing with Musa Mohammed at RB? Who brought in Musa Mohammed? The U17 system, every single team improves with time, so because Ebuehi started blooming when Rohr was the coach means that Rohr takes the glory? By the way who is our first choice RB? SHEHU ABDULLAHI from? Youth teams. You can name Collins as his input but is Collins a fantastic player? The talk about Idowu switching his allegiance do you know when it started? It totally predates Rohr, it was just actualised after he came in, no big deal there.

2) Uzoho------>U17+aspire academy
Alampasu-----> U17
Akpeyu----------> predates Rohr
Ezenwa----------> predates Rohr.
So his exactly did Rohr solve the issues if not by bringing in our former youth players? I believe that you made a mistake with this question as it holds absolutely no ground whatsoever

3) Bazee has actually played how many games for us? Or course every coach will invite new players so I am not sure why we are jumping and clapping. Again, the core of Rohr's team was there before him, do not tell me about players that have barely played two matches under Rohr, those ones are dispensable and every coach invites new dispensivle players frequently. So no big deal there

TheGoodJoe:
The same Keshi we know who fielded an amateur Omeruo at the AFCON who became one of the best defenders in the competition is who you want us to believe will not field a regular at Villarreal.

Na wa.

The same Keshi that was playing Musa when he was playing for the U20 will all of a sudden look the other way. Recency bias is the problem with Nigerians, we do not appreciate people when they are gone, we believe the next guy is the best. Keshi took a young, untested Onazi to the nations cup and he easily made the team of the tournament.

TheGoodJoe:
The growth in talent of the squad has nothing to do with Rohr but the growth from the last two U17 we won, the growth of academies in the country and the exposure of our local agents. Before Rohr took over, Salisu called a fairly strong squad too. Under Keshi, we did not have the talents available.

Worst part is that despite the talents available, Rohr lacks the tactical insight to come up and develop the best crop of talents in each position.

It pains me that people do not understand that with the present players we have on ground, Rohr should be utterly ashamed of his output. It is appalling that people would look at the crop of players we have and blindly accept being battered by Libya and South Africa just because 'we got the result'. At some point the results will stop coming and that is when you will question the style of play, look at Arsenal, 18(?) games unbeaten at some point but you look at the team and how they defend and you know that the end is in sight and when it came it was catastrophic. This is what we are headed for come this AFCON when they big boys will come to the party. If Egypt outplays us the way Libya did and they create that number of chances what will Salah be doing if not padding his stats? The AFCON no far sha