₦airaland Forum

goldfish80:
In a twin DM, when one presses forward, the other sits and vice versa.
Joel and Mikel played this to perfection in 2012.
By the way, you never acknowledged Onazi and Etebo were Dm's. You said Etebo played in a box to box and I can't recall Etebo making a run into the Algerian box ala Ramsey.

By the at have you watched the second video I tagged you? What do you have to say about the 3rd and 4th goal and Ndidi's positioning on the two goals.

you said that Mikel was the box to box, we told you that he was the Amf, that Etebo was the box to box, and I am still saying it now, his primary duty was as a box to box but because of his engine he was able to cover the entire field. again not all box to box midfielders arrive like that all the time, Modric rarely arrives like that into the box but he is a box to box. it depends on what the coach wants

goldfish80:
In a twin DM, when one presses forward, the other sits and vice versa.
Joel and Mikel played this to perfection in 2012.
By the way, you never acknowledged Onazi and Etebo were Dm's. You said Etebo played in a box to box and I can't recall Etebo making a run into the Algerian box ala Ramsey.

By the at have you watched the second video I tagged you? What do you have to say about the 3rd and 4th goal and Ndidi's positioning on the two goals.

I didn't see the formation they played in the second game so I can't decide like that.

In some teams when one roams the other sits, in other teams one sits permanently and the other roams permanently. You do understand that the job description of a roaming dmf isn't far away from that of a box to box ,that's what Etebo was doing in that game,playing as a roaming dmf/box to box hybrid to contain the Algerians .

it is not every single box to box that arrives like that into the box. Iniesta has been deployed as Barcelona's box to box a few times this season yet he hasn't scored a goal from there or even attempted a shot at all because he'd rather stay in midfield and control. in that game we needed to control the midfield to starve Mahrez

goldfish80:
This is why I said earlier that you're biased to a fault when the name Onazi is mentioned.
It's almost unbelievable that you are using the excuse that Genk were playing 2 Dms to defend Ndidi's poor positioning but used the same stick to beat Onazi when analysing the Algerian game.

After watching this clip and you still belive Ndidi's poor positioning have never cost his team goals then I will walk away from this arguement. Clearly there's no redemption for you.

I don't want to believe you haven't realised Etebo and Onazi played as twin Dms in a 4-2-3-1 formation against Algeria.

if you haven't realized that in a twin dmf formation one is called the sitting dmf and the other is called the sitting dmf then you don't understand the twin dmf system I am sorry to say. now read what I typed again and you will understand that I said that Etebo was the roaming dmf and Onazi was the sitting dmg, then browse the meaning of a sitting dmf and a roaming dmf because it appears as if you do not understand

goldfish80:
This is why I said earlier that you're biased to a fault when the name Onazi is mentioned.
It's almost unbelievable that you are using the excuse that Genk were playing 2 Dms to defend Ndidi's poor positioning but used the same stick to beat Onazi when analysing the Algerian game.

After watching this clip and you still belive Ndidi's poor positioning have never cost his team goals then I will walk away from this arguement. Clearly there's no redemption for you.

I don't want to believe you haven't realised Etebo and Onazi played as twin Dms in a 4-2-3-1 formation against Algeria.

if you haven't realized that in a twin dmf formation one is called the sitting dmf and the other is called the sitting dmf then you don't understand the twin dmf system I am sorry to say. now read what I typed again and you will understand that I said that Etebo was the roaming dmf and Onazi was the sitting dmg, then browse the meaning of a sitting dmf and a roaming dmf because it appears as if you do not underatand

goldfish80:
The link have been fixed. Please refresh the page and watch.

never judge out of context, your love for Onazi affected your judgement. Watch closely Ndidi's position when Genk scored their first, he was part of the counter. Genk played a 4-5-1, they had two dmfs and like i told you sometime ago that one sits and the other roams, i watched the first 20mins of the game again and suprise suprise, Ndidi was the roaming dmf but you want to blame him for the sitting dmf's inefficiency? Shocker.

On a side not I wouldn't even blame the sitting DMF, they conceded two quick goals and had to chase the game so he decided to push up, eitherways it's his fault and not Ndidi's fault, just like the goal in the game against Algeria was Onazi's fault and not Etebo's fault. This particular clip isn't helping you at all, show us another one

goldfish80:
Sorry wrong link. I will fix it.
...........
Fixed

I am still looking at the shaktar game so it's safe to assume that you haven't fixed it.

when checking those stats, compare their minutes played. also what is a forward pass? you can be standing right in front of me and if I pass to you then it's a forward pass, but what is a risky pass?

goldfish80:
This is just one game and I counted 4 times Ndidi was caught out of position. You may count more than 4 perhaps.
Gent 3-5 Shakhtar donetsk - all goals & highlight…:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpmIuxeBx0I

It may also surprise you that Onazi and Ndidi have almost identical stats bar tackling,Which Ndidi racks up more numbers.
In pass completed. Onazi appears to be better commutatively.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Oga, Ndidi was never in that game. Ndidi plays for Genk for God's sake. you just embarrassed yourself but let me not dwell on that, I'd still be waiting for the match where Ndidi's positional indiscipline cost his team.

besides your stats show that Ndidi can do everything that Onazi can also tackle, that's because he is.better isn't it? and for the record, Ndidi's passing stats this season ( Genk plus Leicester) is far ahead of Onazi's own and Ndidi actually attempts more risky passes. next time be sure of your stats

Kog45:
Ok tell us how many goals conceded due to Onazi's positional indiscipline coz i do not understand your point.

the game vs Algeria is a perfect example. Not only the goal we conceded, he also gifted them a few other oppurtunities

goldfish80:
You have every right to have a favourite but it's really hypocritical to bash Onazi for being cut out of position (which is exaggerated) but draw positives for Ndidi's poor positioning,praising him for his mobility.
Don't be selective in judgement.
I don't get what you mean by 80% and 85%.

I pointed out clearly my point. Ok let me ask, how many times has Ndidi's positional indiscipline led to a goal against his team? The answer is zero. That's because he understands how to work with his DMF partner but Onazi's positional indiscipline is exposed time and time again! This simply points out one fact, Ndidi's 'perceived' positional indiscipline is as a matter of fact the strategy of the coach which is actually a good thing but Onazi's own is bad, hope you get the push?

Meanwhile I mean Onazi might be getting 85% as a DMF but the average of Mikel Agu and Ndidi is actually more than that, it doesn't make Onazi bad, it means they are better

goldfish80:
Funny enough you have been having a go at Onazi for exactly same reasons you have used to defend Ndidi.
If Onazi's stats weren't so good, he wouldn't have won 3 back to back man of the match awards.
http://africanfootball.com/news/690045/Onazi-full-of-praise-after-third-Man-of-the-Match-Award-in-Turkey

I doubt any Nigeria player have picked up 3 straight man of the match awards this seaon. I stand to be corrected. Please give honour to whom honour is due. It takes nothing away to acknowledge something good if you see one.

80% is good, very good but when you are in a group where 85% is the average it becomes relatively bad. I am not saying that Onazi is entirely useless, I am just saying that Ndidi is better

zicky:
Wow! hearing these for the first time, seems you know him very well. Komekn should have something to say

Yes, Chisom did not subtract a year(well maybe he subtracted just one but I doubt), a cousin of mine actually had his facebook contacts a long long time ago and she alluded to the fact that he didn't change his age, as a matter of fact the said facebook contact is still active. He is an honest lad, hopefully the change in weather won't affect him at Hacken

tbaba1234:
He has had a stop, start season. He is still his club's best player though.

Goldfish just wants to include Onazi. Speaking strictly on form and stats, Mikel Agu and Ndidi are ahead of him by a mile.

Besides, his criticism of Ndidi isn't fair. A proper analysis of Ndidi's play shows that he isn't playing just as the DMF but as the all round midfield destroyer, that's why he plays with another DMF as well so in essence, their criticism of Ndidi is actually a testament to his tactical ingenuity, the ability to play various forms of the DMF role, the boy isn't going to be world class, he already is!

Icon4s:
I do not dispute the fact that some players' football careers have a longer live span than others. Yes, some players come out of retirement to make a mark. But these are few exceptions. Obafemi Martins IMO is not the solution to our attack.

Now, coming to the bolded. Yes I am an advocate of EXPERIENCE but I know where to draw the lines between Experience and efficiency and talent.
And I also have always mentioned it that the role of experience varies in different departments of the team.

Every one who has been following my comments on this thread knows I dnt tolerate in-experienced defenders and goalies especially for big games. I also go for experience and cohesion in the midfield but for the attack I like young adventurous players even with relatively little experience (I am not talking about academy players here). I like my forwards young. Young players like Iheanacho, Iwobi, and Etebo have always been top of my picks among forwards. I have also clamored for the inclusion of Isaac Success. You saw me the other day defending a choice of Iwobi as an AM over Aluko. For the DMF position. This also requires experience that is why I would not hastily want to drop Onazi for Ndidi. Ndidi is on the ascendency while Onazi looks to have been stagnated but I would want Ndidi to continue playing more games for his club side and gather more experience and physicality before I can say he should displace Onazi. August is along time away, many things can happen between now and then.

I believe more in adventurous forwards who are on their ascendency that is why Ideye and Ighalo even with their experience have fallen out of my lists. Those two are on the decline curve not to talk of Martins, Haba!

Yes, Experience is very important but as I said I know where to draw the lines between Experience, efficiency and talent.

Just take a look at this team below.
That is what I am talking about. Experienced defenders and midfielders with young and adventurous forwards line. That is why Rohr would always get my thumbs up in the area of players selection.

in that my write up I was talking about including Taiwo who coincidentally is an experienced defender, Martins is debatable but let's agree to disagree, I am not really his advocate but I believe that he is better than Ideye, Ighalo and Iheanacho on current form but maybe we can look towards other options.

Meanwhile are you watching this Liverpool vs Leicester game? Ndidi has been sublime, I don't know what else you need

Icon4s:
I do not dispute the fact that some players' football careers have a longer live span than others. Yes, some players come out of retirement to make a mark. But these are few exceptions. Obafemi Martins IMO is not the solution to our attack.

Now, coming to the bolded. Yes I am an advocate of EXPERIENCE but I know where to draw the lines between Experience and efficiency and talent.
And I also have always mentioned it that the role of experience varies in different departments of the team.

Every one who has been following my comments on this thread knows I dnt tolerate in-experienced defenders and goalies especially for big games. I also go for experience and cohesion in the midfield but for the attack I like young adventurous players even with relatively little experience (I am not talking about academy players here). I like my forwards young. Young players like Iheanacho, Iwobi, and Etebo have always been top of my picks among forwards. I have also clamored for the inclusion of Isaac Success. You saw me the other day defending a choice of Iwobi as an AM over Aluko. For the DMF position. This also requires experience that is why I would not hastily want to drop Onazi for Ndidi. Ndidi is on the ascendency while Onazi looks to have been stagnated but I would want Ndidi to continue playing more games for his club side and gather more experience and physicality before I can say he should displace Onazi. August is along time away, many things can happen between now and then.

I believe more in adventurous forwards who are on their ascendency that is why Ideye and Ighalo even with their experience have fallen out of my lists. Those two are on the decline curve not to talk of Martins, Haba!

Yes, Experience is very important but as I said I know where to draw the lines between Experience, efficiency and talent.

Just take a look at this team below.
That is what I am talking about. Experienced defenders and midfielders with young and adventurous forwards line. That is why Rohr would always get my thumbs up in the area of players selection.

in that my write up I was talking about including Taiwo who coincidentally is an experienced defender, Martins is debatable but let's agree to disagree, I am not really his advocate but I believe that he is better than Ideye, Ighalo and Iheanacho on current form but maybe we can look towards other options.

Meanwhile are you watching this Liverpool vs Leicester game? Ndidi has been sublime, I don't know what else you need

Certitude:
goldfish80, icon4s forgiveness, sir thegoodjoe, komekn and even mr mickael2 seem to possess cool nerves especially sir forgiveness. i will like to bash you all especially sir mickael2 as i hardly agree with him...lol...that's btw.
as to team selection, i still see rohr maintaining the onazi etebo mikel midfield and mikel as amf cause i don't think rohr will drop him deep. iwobi on the left and v moses on the right with iheanacho leading. aluko must be in that match and i see him coming on for mikel.
ndidi is in great form but i doubt if he'll start.
well august still far but baring unforseen circumstances... u know na.

Hahahaha. Ofcourse you know I will choose Ndidi over Onazi but that's btw.

There was something you pointed out which I love a lot, Etebo is the future of our CMF position, there was this discussion about guys like Mikel Agu etc etc, but Etebo is better than these guys in that position. That pushes Mikel into the Amf position and I believe we have enough fire power in that position to cover for Mikel because this his Chinese move isn't going down with me at all

maidaboi:
Onyekuru is better than this france guy if he was an european player what will be his market value guys?

I have not watched Onyekuru's games or even highlights so I can't be sure. When people were arguing if Jesus was/is better than Iheanacho I also kept quiet because I don't follow the Brazillian league, but now I have seen him in a couple of Epl games, I have seen Mbappe as a starter and as a sub countless times, he is good, really good but the hype...

TheGoodJoe:
What I have noticed is that a lot of people have not watched lots prolific young talents. That is why you can see them make ridiculous statement like Mbappe being hottest property.

Someone like me watched Ronaldinho from U17. De Lima in his teens. Anelka at Seventeen. Just like I pointed out Aguero. Even Tevez. I watched these guys grow. Chill and let us hope the young man works hard and remain a disciplined professional.

Seriously ehn, Nigerians like flowing with the European hype. Mbappe?! I know the rubbish they are saying about him now, I watch Monaco games week in week out, I have an active startimes bouquet for that in fact because of the Bundesliga games they show too, how is Mbappe better than....Okocha at 17 for example?! No Okocha was a super-talent compared to him sef, I don't even know where to grae him now but the hype is outstanding. This boy isn't doing what Di Maria hasn't done before, he is quick, very very quick but that's just about that. I am not going to say that Iheanacho is better than him because I am not sold on him either following his recent struggles but the two of them are defenitely in the same bracket. Gabriel Jesus? Atleast 10 times better than the lad. In fact there was a lad called Mosquito who did a whole lot better when he was still 17 but by 20 he was already gone! People should stop feeding my this rubbish about Mbappe, Pogba is worth 100million but he is not better than Verrati who is worth like 60. Now let me ask a question, if you happen to invent a software which you had intended to sell for....20k to a local businessman but then Dangote comes around and decides that he wants to buy the software, will you still sell for 20k? No matter how righteous you are, you will increase it and if the smaller businessman cannot meet up then Dangote takes it home. The Epl is the dangote here and other leagues will always milk them dry, I have seen worse talents coming to the Epl for a more ridiculous sum so I am not suprised.

forgiveness:
The difference between these two players, one na overage the other na confirmed small pikin.

i can argue that Chrisantus was even more talented. I recall the semifinal against Germany, he was a one man counter attacking machine! I can't forget Akinsola sha, that squad was massively talented! But they all flopped!

Mujtahida:
I am curious @the bolded. What's your reason for stating that you don't see Osimhen as a member of our future team?

i don't just know but I don't just believe that he can cut it. He was great at the U17 level just like Chrisantus was, he is tall just like Chrisantus and he is almost the carbon copy of Chrisantus with regards to their style of play, I hope you understand my point now? I was the first person to jump on the Chrisantus hype train and I am ashamed of it now, hence my....indifference towards Oshimen, atleast until he starts performing like Iheanacho

BascoVanVeli:
U can't prove Obagoal is ahead of Ideye on current form, Ideye's numbers have been great currently.

how many goals did Ighalo score from January last year till now? I used January because the Chinese league hasn't been active, summer break or so

Kog45:
CC:MICHAEL2

A player's era isn't determined by his age. Ogbeche played when he was 20 or so, his own era ended before he even turned 25, Zidane's era was supposed to end around 2005, but he came out of retirement to lead his nation to the 2006 world cup final, if not for Keshi's biased team selection, Martins ought to have been a constant regular in the team right now, ahead of Ideye and Ighalo atleast. When did he ever stop performing? USA, Levante, China you name it, all of them he has scored goals and played well too. If we can't find a suitable back-up left back then Taiwo deserves a look-in too, he was immense for Kemi in the norwegian league last season, he was their top scorer at some point! And if his era is gone then what is Mikel still doing in the team? It baffles me that you use 'experience' to justify the inculsion of one player but you neglect it totally when it comes to another player

Consistencies in d Super Eagle separate Mikel and Obagoal.Mikel has been consistent for past 5 years and still played our last international match with a goal while Obagoal played last 5 years ago.So they are incomparable when it comes to era issue.

I remember Keshi gave Obagoal a chance during one of d qualifying match,if i can remember one or two matches,though d rest history.If i may ask whom w u picked between Obagoal,Ideye,Ighalo in d last 5years.

There are way to this,played to your potential and no coach w ignored u,if Rohr believe Obagoal is d answer,he should be call ASAP.I don't buy d idea that Martins is too old for Eagles but it w take a grace for a player that have left d stage 5 years ago to stage a comeback when we are having young ones craving for d shirt

Mind u i rate martins higher than both Ighalo and Ideye when it comes to talent but when u don't manage d talent,d mediocre w take over your position.

)

permit to make reference to when i was playing school football. Each one of us had a prefered CB pair, when it comes to some matches the tutor(not necessarily a coach)will tell the young ones to sitdown and watch their seniors, mind you they were just two classes above us and they weren't really better. You sit down and you watch them, how they shout at their teammates and stuffs like that, that is the meaning of gaining experience from an experienced player. Obagoal is just 31 or 32, Mikel isn't far behind. Obagoal is currently better than Ideye and Ighalo and on current form, he is better than Iheanacho, fact. Ideye is what? 27 Ighalo is also 27 i think and they are already gone, our plan now has to be how to groom Oshimen(who I don't really fancy as a member of our future team), Nacho and the really young lads. Who will they learn from? They might learn leadership from Mikel but they still need to learn the instincts of an experienced striker from Obagoal. This form of experience is different from club football experience, besides African football is another thing entirely. Now Ideye and Ighalo are not recognised strikers on the African continent, Martins is, so why can't they learn from him? 2018 is next year and Martins would be at most 33, Trezeguet went to the 2006 world cup almost at 35 etc etc. We need experienced strikers who are good enough, Iheanacho played a good game against Algeria if it was an Epl match, but in Africa something that is perceived as a good game in the Uk isn't really a good game in Africa, we want to see the beauty of the game not really the tactical side most times. We want to see swift strikers and smart runs into the box not a striker who can press or even fall deep, if we can teach the younger generations this aspect of football, trust me Iheanacho can learn from him and it will improve his game generally. Drogba and Eto for example understood the difference between the African game and the European game and they will able to combine it to devastating effect, sometimes you see Drogba pressing tirelessly like an European player and sometimes he would just use brute strenght to win games like an African

BascoVanVeli:
The super eagles belong to every Nigeria u cannot shut the door on anyone young or old. Besides what happened to the guy who said bring them all to camp and see who is best?

you caught him right in the center

Certitude:
mr mickael2, Taiwo is useless.

ok

joseph1013:
I will take Obafemi Martins over Ighalo. We've given Ighalo too many chances, we've been very unfair to Martins despite his high goal ratio for the Eagles.

not just for the Eagles, everywhere he has played

Icon4s:
Peter Utaka?

Why not lets also invite Obinna Nsofor, Chinedu Obasi, Taye Taiwo and Yakubu Ayegbeni. What did we achieve with those players?
Their era is gone!

A player's era isn't determined by his age. Ogbeche played when he was 20 or so, his own era ended before he even turned 25, Zidane's era was supposed to end around 2005, but he came out of retirement to lead his nation to the 2006 world cup final, if not for Keshi's biased team selection, Martins ought to have been a constant regular in the team right now, ahead of Ideye and Ighalo atleast. When did he ever stop performing? USA, Levante, China you name it, all of them he has scored goals and played well too. If we can't find a suitable back-up left back then Taiwo deserves a look-in too, he was immense for Kemi in the norwegian league last season, he was their top scorer at some point! And if his era is gone then what is Mikel still doing in the team? It baffles me that you use 'experience' to justify the inculsion of one player but you neglect it totally when it comes to another player

chrisooblog:
i like obafemi martins alot but for some reason his career in the super eagles has always been start stop. a player like yakubu ayeigbeni who is not as talented as martins enjoyed longevity in the national team and racked up goals but obafemi could never maintain that consistency. if he's still in form then he could be a valuable stop gab until our younger strikers mature and hit form.

although looking at it in another way the current formation that we employ in the super eagles might not be suited for martins 4-2-3-1 unless we use a system that will deploy 2 strikers because i think martins works best with a strike partner

No No No, Obagoal is the perfect definition of a lone striker. He has the pacy, he is aggressive, the guy jumps higher than Cr7, he can dribble, he can do just about anything. I remember this game with Algeria in 2005 or so, he started as the lone forward, he scored either a hattrick or a brace. When Amodu came in during the tense 2010 world cup qualifications, he was mostly deployed as a lone forward. I believe that the only reason why people are asking for him is because we play a lone forward, and boy he can play that well enough

tglobal:
Dont know in the case of Onazi, but players can get moved for different reasons apart from performance. Mikel comes to mind (AMF to DMF not because he was a poor AM player). Lauren was moved to RB in Arsenal even though he excelled in the midfield role (was player of the tournament at AFCON 2000). Even Okocha played DMF for a few games in PSG and that didn't work out. Players get moved if there ia a need in the team and if they excel in that new role, they retain their spot

that's true but I was actually specifically writing about Onazi because I checked it

BascoVanVeli:
Against Algeria Rohr took out Mikel and pushed Onazi up the field, he created 3 scoring opportunities in that time. U can call it stopgap i call it mastering tactics in a short period of time.

where and when did he create the scoring oppurtunities? He started the play for 3 good chances no doubt but he didn't create 3 good scoring oppurtunities, he passed the ball out wide in all 3 occasions, I am not selling him short I just want to explain that he didn't create the chance exactly, he created the oppurtunity that led to the chance. But let's look at it critically, why didn't he create any good scoring oppurtunity when he started as a DMF? Ndidi came in and still managed to create a good play from the DMF position, if you play Onazi as the Amf from the first blast of the whistle my brother you are dead

forgiveness:
Onazi started is Football career as a AMF with Lazio and he was used in other two positions.

Yes but why was he removed from there? Because he hardly creates any good scoring oppurtunity, I remember you told me this a long time ago and I later found out that you are correct but he was moved away because he really wasn't good there. A versatile player is someone like Azpilicueta that can play RB, LB, CB and sometimes DMF to perfection.

Cc basconVanvieli

lakesidepapa:
Indeed! This remember me our game against Zambia at 2013 Afcon, Onazi performed excellently at the RB.

and how many games has he played as a RB ever since? And it was against Zambia, slowly Z A M B I A, that year they were atrocious, the very next game saw Efe Ambrose back in the RB position

BascoVanVeli:
How is playing multiple position not "smartness". Name one player in the history of the game that has gone without a mental lasp? Even Rohr has moved him into AMF in a couple games, he played fullback for Keshi. Just say "i don't like Onazi so stop praising him" next time so we can save all this.

please when did Rohr move him into an Amf position? Smartness isn't doing what everybody does(I am still trying to figure out where and when he played the AMF position). And this has absolutely nothing to do with Onazi, when somebody here said the same thing about Mikel, I told him modern day footballers play multiple positions, it isn't special, I don't celebrate mediocrity. How many games did he play as a fullback? When you talk about actual versatility you talk about playing multiple positions multiple times, not a stop-gap replacement within a match

MayElEvEn:
I'm dedicating my first post on NL to the gurus here, especially sir goodjoe, icon4, superdupernerd, safari girl, Bascovanvelli, sir kog5, sir goldfish and other notable pundits.
I have been following this thread since its inception and I must confess you guys rock.


For my Top 3 greatest players in green white green, they are

KANU

Okocha

Rashidi Yekini

Hang on, either theSuperNerd or another person is about to attack you for not including Mikel Obi