₦airaland Forum

BascoVanVeli:
Onazi is very smart, he can play anywhere the coach wants him with no problem.

I disagree Onazi is not so smart. Smartness is the ability to move to any area of the pitch without leaving a serious gap in your actual position, I don't think that I need to highlight how many times Onazi has been caught out of position in one particular match in fact. Correct me if I am wrong, but Onazi has only played 2 positions well for the SE, DMF and CMF effectively the same thing anyways just the difference was the position he occupied on the pitch. Modern players ALWAYS play more than one position, that is not smartness, it isn't special

TheSuperNerd:
Fantastic observation.... Looollll

Sir Mickael2 did the same thing.....

Sir Joebie is now making lightening strike twice in the same thread.... Looollll

Mikel..... Wetin u do these people naa?? Looolll

I never did that. I just pointed out my opinion(I think I said we have better players). Saying Aguero should not be invited to the Argentine national team isn't an insult, it just means they have better players

goldfish80:
I actually rated them very high after their first game.
In the last paragraph of the quoted, I said they have played the best football in the Championship.


ASee my post after their game against Guinea. I even predicted Egypt will get to the final and loose because of the Hector Cuper factor. Lol.. The man really pissed on a sacred grave.

This Cameroun matter don taya me. Let's go back to the usual topic of Iheanacho and Pepe.

yeah about that, do you know that a recent report has it that it was Pep who taught Iheanacho how to lace his boots? In view of that, I think Iheanacho should remain at City until he has learnt properly how to lace and 'unlace' his boot while sitting on the subs bench

edi287:
Because I said Nacho is a better finisher means Jesus isn't a good finisher?? When Pep first played Messi as a false 9, was he a better finisher than Eto?? You're asking me how many skillful players we've seen under pep?? Ibra wasn't skillful? Lewandowski isn't skillful? Why did he sell Eto and buy Ibra? Why didn't he stick with Mandzukic since he doesn't like skillful players?? Why did Pep ask for Neymar when he first came to bayern?? Douglas Costa and Coman are not skillful??

Ibra obviously did not succeed under Pep. Lewandowski is skillful?! Maybe you need to watch his matches first.

I doubt if you have watched Douglas Costa, he has got the pace and nothing more, if you talk about skill-set he is limited, you don't see him pulling off a rainbow flick or a leg-over, Ribery is more skillful than he is. Coman was a bench piece so I do not understand how he fits into your description.

Did they tell you that Pep was asking for Neymar? Because the battle for Neymar was squarely between Madrid and Barcelona, Bayern wasn't even present in the discussions. Do you think that it is a coincidence that Neymar came to Barca immediately he left? Like the GoodJoe said which is perfectly precise, when Guardiola came to the B team, he told them all to stop dribbling except Messi. Oh and Messi's finishing skills were absurd, that's what he found out in training

edi287:
Say you've not watched him extensively...Anyone who has watched both wouldn't even argue this. Iheanacho is a better finisher and maybe has a better final ball. Jesus beats him in every other aspect and fits more into Pep philosophy.

so if Nacho has the better finishing abilities and the better decision making how does Gabby fit into pep's philosophy more? I know Pedro, Villa even Xavi, Muller and the whole lot of them only had these two attributes to perfection and they fitted right in. How many skilful players have you seen under pep? Apart from Messi, none of his centre forwards have been that skilful. Even his centre forward for barca B wasn't skilful, Lewandowski and all of them, the experts we have in here are just... wow

Loogan:
They say class is permanent. Mikels experience more than anything is what the coach values and we ourselves can see the importance...I don't think the S.E have a better midfielder than mikel truth be told...ighalo and mikel case are different, he has already lost his place in the S.E because of poor form, if he now goes to China he will not even have a call up.

Mikel plays the AMF position for us, we have countless variations that can put him out if the system. Iheanacho can still play there, Aluko, Iwobi can come into the middle and free up the left side for a quicker winger and all that, So I believe we can find adequate replacements

Certitude:
Mikel played mostly as a DMF in chelsea and as a CMF or AMF in the SE. Gaging from his style of play in chelsea where he barely reach the attacking third, he has been oustanding for Eagles.
I still pick talent over playing time.

When Spain were dominating the world, Iniesta was playing as a winger for them and Xabi was playing a more advanced position for them. players from top teams can combine more than two positions because top coaches train players to be able to play more than one position, that's the advantage of playing under a top coach who knows how to drill players. I am not trying to undermine his achievement but I am just trying to say that it's normal for players

Kog45:
I understand your point going to china w definitely have an impact either positive or negative,it's left for him to meet up and bridge d gap.

On a coach Mikel has seen it all with his eleven years at Chelsea and we should not debate on this,though I don't know his new coach profile but china boost of good coach like AVB,Scolari.

On Mikel automatic shirt by Rohr which i don't believe coz for picking shirt he must have merit it,though his eleven years of experience at Chelsea and national team w always count.

Sentimentally one would say Rohr was biased for giving Mikel that privilege while player like Ighalo is being denied cos he said going to china w have negative impact on Ighalo chances at d national team but one thing is glaring Mikel and Ighalo belong to different class,so for now Ighalo cannot get that privilege,not only Ighalo but most upcoming players.

Mikel position should not be automatic but whether we like it or not,there are players who will always make d team except injury set in and Mikel is one them but for now i still rate Mikel ahead of others in that position based on our last 3 matches under Rohr.

I am not against it right now, my point is when he comes to training and the coach sees that his level has dropped, he should not leave him out of the team without any hesitation

Certitude:
IMO, both playing time and training under any kind of coach are overated. A player have to be talented to be able to develop in training or playing match.

there are some players who weren't really talented but they still made it because they trained under good coaches and when the good coach leaves they fall flat on the ground. some not so talented players perform because the system is created to bring out the little they have and they succeed relatively so talent is important but it isn't everything

TheGoodJoe:

I thought I made my point clear. I have not changed my stance.

No I am trying to say that training with a good coach can sometimes cover up for lack if game time. I borrowed your opinion

Certitude:
Even when he wasn't playing, he was still better than some cats. When he starts declining, you can decide not to call him anymore.
no p

Even when he wasn't playing regularly he was training under a good coach regularly which is one of the points that GoodJoe always points out whenever he starts debating about the importance of game time. but now that he is not going to be training under a good coach or even training with good or even average players what does that mean for us? Safarigirl I need your opinion too because...

Certitude:
Even when he wasn't playing, he was still better than some cats. When he starts declining, you can decide not to call him anymore.
no p

How many persons have we tried out in his position since?

TheGoodJoe:
It depends on the perspective you want to see it. Against Algeria, Iheanacho caused problems repeatedly with his speed. This affected the balance of the Algerians and gave our other forward going players room to operate.

That pressure and pace upfront is something we need to maintain. It is like having an extra man for the defence to deal with.

Only Iheanacho offers that in the team until Success regains his form and Osimhen gets the nod from Rohr.

Let me ask you something, Forgiveness too... now that Mikel has gone to China which is not a competitive league by any standard, should he still be commanding an automatic spot in our starting eleven? Remember that the coach said that if Ighalo moves to China he would be forgotten, Fanendo Adi has not been invited since because he is presumably playing in a weak league but the US league is obviously better than the Chinese league, So shouldn't Mikel be treated the same way for the sake of equality?

GoodJoe before you answer, remember you said training with a good coach trumps game time, what's the name of the coach that Mikel is going to be training with? I don't know, So isn't he going to start declining?

goldfish80:
You're right on the money. Dani Alves playing as a centre back in back 3? When I thought I've seen it all on this thread.

lol. You are very very funny. Did you notice how the GoodJoe initially supported the guy? GoodJoe wil support anything and anyone that supports Pep Guardiola

goldfish80:
On this thread, I said it that the Algerians were overrated 2 weeks before we played them.
I remember arguing it out with Mickael2 that only 3 of their players can get into out side.
Our major contenders for the world cup is Cameron.
Not Zambia, not Algeria. And am not saying this with the benefit of hindsight.

bros, you no dey ever forget? You remembered every single thing, even the Echejile argument too. You win sha, although I think that most of them just want to get back to their clubs unlike Mane who wants the glory but well Cameroon havent been that great either

TheGoodJoe:

Bojan's decline was due to injury. Also, you missed the part of perseverance and hard work. You can not tell how hard Bojan worked.

Bojan is quality because of his time at Barcelona. He had his growth there. By the way, the whole decline talk does not add because people judge Bojan's academy football as the top height of the game and his time at Barca as decline.

Bojan did not hit the top at the big stage and injury worried him. Sometimes it looks like if he was banging hundred La Liga goals before Guardiola.

Ok I now get your point

TheGoodJoe:

All this is long story. I have made a clear point. Sane without playing time improved on the training field.

It is so simple. So all this talk does not add.

and what I am saying is that Bojan declined despite training under Pep without adequate game time and trust. Busquets on the other hand developed with game time and not that training ground policy of yours. Remember that at the beginning of the season Iheanacho was good whenever he came on because he was trying to impress, now his confidence is low. Sane is still in that bracket, he is trying to impress believing that Pep will reward him, if Pep doesn't the same thing will happen

TheGoodJoe:
Please, go back and read my point. I am talking of Pre Guardiola. If we were discussing who should have led the defensive midfield, it should have been Keita. You said Yaya Toure was a top dog at Barcelona. He was not a top dog if he got displaced in a season. Is that a top dog?

Keita was a top dog at Sevilla, outclassed Barcelona midfielders repeatedly.

Yaya has some run but that is not what you call a top dog.

let me ask, in Guardiola's first season(2008/2009), which of the DMFs featured more than the other? Toure hands down. Which one is Keita again sef, I doubt if Keita played up to 10 games that year.

TheGoodJoe:

How can you say Yaya Toure was better hands down. That is not clear because we have to look on reference of the philosophy on ground.

Look at Hart for instance, many will say he is better than Bravo hands down. However, when it comes to the possession-heavy style, Hart is no where close to Bravo.

Busquets passing and understanding of Guardiola's philosophy is flawless. He fits in more than Toure and was the right choice for Guardiola.

Bravo won the Copa and La Liga, how is Hart who makes mistakes every other game better? I think Bravo has some confidence issue but is Hart better than him? Absolutely not.

Now about Busquets, you are talking about the Busquets of 2011, as at 2010 in fact, Busquets was still error-prone and a defensive liability, if you need some articles on that I can get them straight away.

But let me ask you, has Alves ever played in a 3 man defence?

TheGoodJoe:

It is Guardiola that played Toure in Center back from the best of my knowledge. Not Rijkaard. By the time Guardiola took over Barca, Busquet was key to the future of the club. Along with Pique. Yaya Toure was not a top dog.

I repeat, Keita was bigger than him. Remember the dominance of Sevilla under Juande Ramos with Dani Alves and Keita. Yaya was never on their level before he left Barcelona.

Yaya was never a Barcelona top dog.

Who even discusses Yaya Toure in the same sentence with Keita at Barca? Keita was never a top prospect. Pep likes a defender who can pass the ball well, that was why Mascherano was purchased, he used to employ Yaya Toure in that position because of his versatility. At some point even Busquets played as a CB, so Pep playing Toure as a CB does not show anything. I repeat the best eleven that Barca had in 2008 contained Yaya Toure and not Busquets, but when the time came he kicked out Toure for Busquets and frankly, Busquets first full season was full of errors, most barca fans wanted him gone, some wanted Pep to convert him to a full CB or a Gk like his dad and let Mascherano play that position but despite his mistakes, Pep continued playing him and the game time he got improved his abilities. Now relate that to Iheanacho now, one mistake and he is on the bench the very next day, that is not how Busquets reached this level, forget drills, Bojan spent how many years under Pep drilling, but I can assure you that the Bojan I saw at the 2007 U17 isn't far from the one at Stoke City now, just like Iheanacho Pep used to play him sometimes, but whenever he makes a single mistake he gets benched immediately and the lad's confidence deserted him and well the rest is history. You will only tell Iheanacho to remain at City if you want him to turn into the next Bojan

TheGoodJoe:

It is Guardiola that played Toure in Center back from the best of my knowledge. Not Rijkaard. By the time Guardiola took over Barca, Busquet was key to the future of the club. Along with Pique. Yaya Toure was not a top dog.

I repeat, Keita was bigger than him. Remember the dominance of Sevilla under Juande Ramos with Dani Alves and Keita. Yaya was never on their level before he left Barcelona.

Yaya was never a Barcelona top dog.

I can't believe you just typed this, maybe you should read this too
https://worldsoccertalk.com/2015/01/30/the-greatest-teams-fc-barcelona-2008-2009/

peterd53:
lol get ur fact right!! busquet started d final also as a midfielder,toure was use bcuz of d non-availability of player through suspension nd toure never played in a tree man back line under pep! it abidal-pique-alves or puyol playing in place of pique or alves

Toure lost his place 2 keita first, nd d later losing it to busquet, just bcuz segie is a good passer of d ball Dan both,he hardly lose possession. it just d same btween thiago nd cesc, pep prefer using thiago in midfield to cesc due to his passing game. it d coach philosophy, he sort 4 d best, who could fit into his game plan.

https://worldsoccertalk.com/2015/01/30/the-greatest-teams-fc-barcelona-2008-2009/

try to read this article for future purposes. If you are a barca fan then it's clear you just recently became a fan

peterd53:
lol get ur fact right!! busquet started d final also as a midfielder,toure was use bcuz of d non-availability of player through suspension nd toure never played in a tree man back line under pep! it abidal-pique-alves or puyol playing in place of pique or alves

Toure lost his place 2 keita first, nd d later losing it to busquet, just bcuz segie is a good passer of d ball Dan both,he hardly lose possession. it just d same btween thiago nd cesc, pep prefer using thiago in midfield to cesc due to his passing game. it d coach philosophy, he sort 4 d best, who could fit into his game plan.

several penalties. On the other
hand, Abidal was wrongly sent-off in that
match and Barcelona’s performance in
the final was superb. In the 2009
Champions League final, Barcelona were
truly dominant against Manchester
United. At this time, United had Cristiano
Ronaldo (in his final season before
joining Real Madrid) who was considered
the best player in the world. Barcelona
played the game without Abidal and
Alves in defense. This resulted in Sylvinho
playing at left-back and Carlos Puyol
playing at right-back (where he started
his career). A third position was also
affected, as Toure played at center-back,
with Sergio Busquets playing the
defensive midfield role.

From this you can now understand that it was Busquets who benefited from the injuries and suspensions not Toure, Toure was used as a defender because of his versatility. It was the next season that Busquets started getting recognized which led to Toure's departure in 2010. Next time get your facts right

peterd53:
lol get ur fact right!! busquet started d final also as a midfielder,toure was use bcuz of d non-availability of player through suspension nd toure never played in a tree man back line under pep! it abidal-pique-alves or puyol playing in place of pique or alves

Toure lost his place 2 keita first, nd d later losing it to busquet, just bcuz segie is a good passer of d ball Dan both,he hardly lose possession. it just d same btween thiago nd cesc, pep prefer using thiago in midfield to cesc due to his passing game. it d coach philosophy, he sort 4 d best, who could fit into his game plan.

Maybe you should have watched some of those games before talking. Alves has never, will never and can never play in a 3 man backline. Alves is the wingback for Christ sake, whenever Barca switches to a back 3, Alves is always the defender who moves into a midfield position.

In that final in question, Toure started as a defender and that's my point, at the beginning of the season he was the starting CB but Pep started playing him out of position just to accomodate Busquets, at that point Yaya Toure was better than Busquets hands down, if you were a barca fan by then you'd know that it was a general consensus.

PS: please do not say it outside that Alves can play in a back 3, people will just think that you do not watch football

TheGoodJoe:

You make it look like Yaya was the midfield king of Barca before the arrival of Pep. It was Edmilson. When Pep took over Barca, Yaya was not a big player. Seydou Keita was even bigger than Yaya. It was easy to slot in Busquets because Busquets worked in the academy with Guardiola. He understood Guardiola’s philosophy and than others.

Aguero is one of the best strikers in the history of the EPL. Dropping him for Nacho was never going to be an easy task. Also, remember Aguero played in Spain. So he understands a lot of Spanish football.

Baba, where did you get that from?! Let me make it simple for you, Yaya Toure went from starting the 2008 champions league final to warming the bench for Busquets, so I ask is it that he stopped responding to Pep's drills after that 08 final or what exactly? Toure was one of the top dogs, a versatile player. I know he started a lot of games as a CB so that Barca could effectively switch to a 3-4-3 with Abidal falling into the 3rd CB slot, so I don't know where you got the impression that Toure wasn't important

TheSuperNerd you don come back? Confirm atleast we now have somebody who can type long replies to TheGoodJoe, most people don tire for am

tbaba1234:
How many players from the Nike Academy have moved to big clubs? They all seem go to lower league sides from what i have seen.

thank you. forget that lad, let's move on with what we have. since he is at the Nike academy, it means he has a good agent probably employed by Nike themselves, little wonder why you are noticing him at all

krattoss:
iwobi was doing now exactly what he is supposed to do..passing passing and passing...thats the work of a central midfielder....

holding out pressure from opponent's should be the more of the work of defensive milder which was xhaka and Ramsey..

the difference is that his passes were basic passes, not the kind that wows you. he was okay there, but he wasn't taking the risks that Ozil for example would take, he wasn't making the kind of passes that would leave you wondering if he played the ball with his feet or three it with his hands, he will get better though

TheGoodJoe:

So you think Guardiola allowing Iheanacho go for the Olympics will show he values Iheanacho in the team. Even before the call up, I knew it was not possible because Guardiola was coming with a new style and system.

All the players needed to adapt fast to his system. Iheanacho going for the Olympics will mean Guardiola getting a back up striker for the season.

Guardiola stopping heanacho going for the Olympics showed he values Iheanacho.

I do not see why him allowing Messi go means he does not value Iheanacho.

No, it means he is a hypocrite since he has one set of rules for blacks and another for whites. when pep came in, he replaced Riijkard's system entirely, that was in 2008, yet he allowed Messi to go to the Olympics. now you are telling me that he didn't allow Iheanacho to go because he values him? how does that make any sense to you?

tbaba1234:
The whole Arsenal team was atrocious in the first half, It had nothing to do with Iwobi. You can't single-out one player. The team was not motivated for the game.

Iwobi held up four players to lay the goal for Ramsey and had a much better second half.

when your team is disjointed like Arsenal, it us easily because the link between your attack and defence isn't functioning and that was Iwobi's primary function. like I said he was okay, but he wasn't brilliant

TheGoodJoe:

Representing your country is the most important thing for a professional—the greatest honour, in fact—and Pep denying the forward that experience was a huge ‘red flag’.

So Pep not allowing Iheanacho go for the Olympics is a red flag. What of he other Nigerians like Ndidi and Simon Moses that their coaches did not allow play the Olympics. Were those green flags?

the problem here is that when Barcelona wanted to stop Messi from going to the Olympics it was the same Pep who told them to let him go to the Olympics because he believes every player deserves to go to the Olympics at the right time. Messi went to the 2008 Olympics and won it, 8 years later, it is the same case with Iheanacho and he turns to a pure hypocrite, don't you see the basic point there?!

krattoss:
after watching iwobi play no. 10 in the absence of ozil.... I must say am really impressed ..

dude is very calm and attacking minded... cool touches, good passes, nice driblles and hold of ball...

infact ozil should watch his back... (he should watch his mouth when next he is asking for salary increase..)

atleast we got a lwf, lmf, cmf, and attacking mildfilder all in one..

Preston North End dominated Arsenal with Iwobi as the focal point, Iwobi was good he was not brilliant, he did not impose himself in the game, he was doing what he used to do as a LMF in the center, passing passing and passing. that was good but it wasn't fantastic, if he plays like that against a half decent opposition, they'd lose by 6 goals atleast