Henry240: I don't dispute that. However why waste a hard-point which would carry a drop-tank, when there are ISTAR aircrafts in the area.
Besides the FCS on 4 GEN aircrafts are so advanced that they ensure airstrikes from dumb bombs are generally quite accurate when hitting targets.
Take for example Nigerian Air strikes from 3.5 generation F-7s. They are generally very accurate despite not carrying guidance kits or laser designators.
Tomi Oladipo BBC Africa security correspondent Posted at 10:52 The so-called Islamic State (IS) jihadist group has announced a new leader for its West African branch, popularly known as Boko Haram.
The latest issue of an IS magazine featured what it called its first interview with Abu Musab al-Barnawi, who replaces the eccentric Abubakar Shekau.
In a video clip released in January 2015, Mr al-Barnawi described himself as the spokesman for Boko Haram. This was before the Nigeria-based jihadist group pledged allegiance to IS.
Now IS says he has replaced Mr Shekau, who has not made a verified appearance in any video since August 2015.
Henry240: It depends on the type of armour. Adding a light weight, more flexible armour wouldn't affect the vehicles overall mobility.
Non-state actors are now better armed, however not as well armed as similar actors in the Middle-East, at least not yet.
The French deployed all that stuff just as a show off. They didn't require a lot of those systems they deployed. Take the Tchadians for an example, they didn't even deploy 1/4 of the equipment the French deployed, but you'll agree with me that through out the entire campaign they (Tchadians) were just as successful as the French.
Photo related, Israel's new 8x8 APC.
They needed all that equipment.
As you can see this APC is a heavy 8×8 vehicle not in the class of the Mbombe 6×6. It is in the class of the Denel vehicles systems RG-41 APC.
nemesis2u: BTR-T it is russian , it is a deep upgrade , u have to negotiate with the russians to see if they can do it locally in nigeria.
my personal view only it is better to buy the latest MANPADS, rather then convert t55units as SPAAG for air defence role , because to make it an effective spaag u will need to integrate good radar, optical systems etc to it, ultimately the cost u will incur in development , testing , tooling etc will not be justified , u will be able to buy a new modern spaag for the same money.
Similar to MANPADS if they are going to operate as part of a layered system.
- Nigerian Pilots, I don't think i've seen a Nigerian pilot that is above 40 years of age. NAF pilots should rank as some of the youngest in the world.
Henry240: I do agree, if we get the Tucano, it would be the same version Afganistan uses. However it is simply not true to say Boko-Haram is more deadly than ISIS or Taliban. ISIS militants are a cordinated fighting force, with former Generals in their ranks. They are armed with Anti-Tank, Anti-Air missiles. The Tucanos for Afghanistan can deliver PGMs.
By deadly I'm sure they aren't referring to capabilities.
Also I'm sceptical about the sources of information used on the Nigerian side.
Henry240: Hence i said it's armour can be upgraded. We have been experimenting with Dyneema, here in Nigeria. Dyneema is able to stop AA rounds. There's also the option of using ceramic armour when it's available.
We have mostly engaged non-state actors in the past 30 years, engagements for the foreseeable future would continue with this trend. For state actors, we've both defeated Chad and Cameroun.
That's why in my initial reply I said it was "too light".
Adding armour will reduce the mobility of the vehicle.
Non-state actors in Africa I think you'll agree with me that I modern times are well armed. Unlike the days when rebels were only armed with weapons they could carry.
The rebels in Mali caused France to deploy fighters, IFVs, armoured cars, artillery etc
Henry240: As a platform, i think it requires additional testing. Aesthetically, it looks great and a 30mm would be more than adequate (I know what you said in your reply).
However, I'll stick with the Mbombe 6 (thanks), seems like a more reliable system at this point.
Too light for conventional and semi-conventional warfare.
The RG-41 seems better. It can absorb or take some punishment technicals might throw at it similar to the Badger.
Daverytimes: Middle eastern countries have proven incapable of handling any equipment they have in any fashion resembling professional, especially Saudi Arabia. If you are going to use their performance to judge the platform then i guess the M1A2's are complete shit. Saudi Arabia has managed to make every weapons system in their inventory look shit due to inexperience and lack of any proper strategy. The BMP3 doesn't have paper thin Armour, sure its not as armored as some other IFV's out there but that is by design. The Soviet doctrine was different from the west and that manifest's itself in the BMP-3, it is better armored than its predecessors but its essentially a heavily armed nimble machine that you can throw around. Much faster than most IFV's and rather light, and ofcourse their is the added bonus of it being relatively cheap.
Not necessarily.
UAE forces fought well besides a few ambushes losing a few MRAPS.
You didn't see the Leclerc, G6 or their IFV getting knocked out like the Saudis.
frumentius: Came across this paper by Andrew Glendinning. A long-ish read but well worth it.
A South African Heavy Gunship?
Saab’s JAS 39 Gripen, which in both the C and D variants, is the South African Air Force’s (SAAF) premier multirole jet fighter aircraft. But considering a hypothetical weaponised form of long-range, low-cost gunship is an interesting thought experiment away from the realm of hi-tech fighter jets. A heavy gunship is essentially a well-armed ground-attack aircraft. The only real example of such a concept is the United States Air Force, where weaponised variants of civilian aircraft fill valuable, niche roles. The gunship’s primary missions are close air support, air interdiction and armed reconnaissance. Other missions include perimeter and point defence; escort, landing, drop and extraction zone support; forward air control, limited command and control, and combat search and rescue. These heavily armed aircraft incorporate side-firing cannons integrated with sophisticated sensor, navigation and fire control systems to provide surgical firepower or area saturation fire during extended periods, at night and in adverse weather.
The gunship was proven during the Vietnam War, where Gen John Ryan, USAF Chief of Staff, noted that side-firing gunships are “one of the most successful developments arising from our experience in Southeast Asia.” Colonel Ron Terry, a former fighter pilot who led the charge in the early 1960s to develop the AC-47 and its successors, points out today that the gunships have been one of the most “effective things the United States has had for engagements in Panama, Grenada, and Afghanistan.”
The reason this particular concept is worth keeping in mind is that it is well within reach for the South African Air Force to create a local version of a heavy gunship. Denel for instance currently produces a low recoil 105 mm howitzer (known as the Light Experimental Ordinance [LEO]), a 30 mm cannon and a rapid fire 25 mm cannon. All of these weapons platforms could easily be integrated into a civilian aircraft of similar size as an AC47. As for fire control systems, there are a number of defence companies in South Africa which would almost certainly be able to provide the system with an integrated fire control unit, target acquisition capabilities as well as the necessary surveillance equipment needed for hypothetical mission use in the African battle-space. There are aircraft, which in the long-term, may be more than capable of assuming the role of a heavy gunship. One aircraft in particular, which came to light when the South African government cancelled its participation in the Airbus A400M programme, is the KC-390 aircraft under development by the Brazilian aerospace manufacturer Embraer. This platform would be ideal, in that it is a large, modern jet powered transport aircraft, capable of lifting an estimated 21 tonnes. South Africa would also be likely to acquire KC-390’s from Brazil for the express purpose of converting them into heavy gunships, as South Africa and Brazil have enjoyed a highly fruitful relationship while jointly developing the 5th generation A-Darter air-to air missile. Therefore, it begs the question, assuming the conversion is indeed possible, what exactly would the SAAF be able to do with such a system, and what would be the benefits of possessing such significant airborne firepower? The answer is quite simple. The SAAF would be able to use a single type of aircraft to plug existing holes in its operational capabilities. For instance, with a similar electronic surveillance suit to a USAF equivalent, this includes advanced avionics, radar, high-resolution imaging systems, Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) capabilities and magnetic anomaly detector (MAD). The MAD is a highly sensitive passive device with a phased-array antenna which could pick up localised deviations in earth’s magnetic field which is used to detect submerged submarines.
If all of these capabilities are included on the weaponised version of the KC 390, it could be used to fulfil the maritime recognisance gap which is a significant requirement for the SAAF at present. It could also be used in a variety of border patrol missions and to provide precise tactical firepower where ever needed, particularly to SANDF personnel deployed on peace keeping operations in Africa. It is this factor, the ability to provide long range heavy fire support to deployed infantry and mobile units, that has served the USAF so well over the years and would as such, be a useful future capability for the aircraft to undertake with the SAAF. It is the inherent flexibility of the system, from providing close air support to infantry, while also being able to hunt submarines, act as a long range airborne tank killer, and complete a variety of surveillance missions that makes this type of aircraft so attractive. It can also be used under certain circumstances as a platform for paratroopers and as a transport aircraft; however this may only be a limited possibility in emergency situations.
In addition the heavy gunship configuration of a KC-390 acting as a combat support aircraft may well outperform most of the SAAF’s existing platforms, including the Gripen, the Hawk or the Rooivalk. This is due to the fact that each of these three systems faces some severe limitations, in terms of operational range, the size of each aircraft’s armaments payload, and in the case of the Rooivalk, both speed and its operational ceiling. Take for instance the SAAF Gripen, the SAAF’s premier combat aircraft. Each aircraft has an effective range of around 800km, and with current budgetary and technical constraints, can only accommodate an ordinance payload of a few unguided bombs and the laser guided Paveway II bomb, a few hundred 27mm cannon shells, and Denel’s air-to-air missile, the A-Darter. From a brass-tacks perspective, the use of a weaponised KC 390 will yield benefits in munitions expenditure. For instance the SAAF Gripen carries the Paveway II laser guided bomb. Each Paveway II, weighs in at around 227 kg, and costs somewhere in the region of US$ 19,000. Whereas even the largest calibre ammunition the AC-130 carries, the 15.1 kg 105 mm shell, in its High Explosive configuration costs somewhere in the region of US$ 160. Therefore, each Paveway II buys the SAAF, 102 high explosive 105mm shells.
This is not to suggest that the weaponised KC-390 would replace the Gripens. However what it would do is to add a significant set of capabilities to the SAAF, which when used in combination with the Gripens and the Rooivalks would create a formidable airborne force. Of course it must be said that this is an interesting concept, and could, with a little foresight and the right sort of budgetary expansion provide the SAAF with a whole host of new capabilities. However it must be recognised that the viability of such a system would likely only be a reality in the next 20 years or so. In the meantime, there are far more pressing needs, and budgetary constraints that simply would not allow for the development of an entirely new combat platform, at this point. The concept of a heavy gunship for the SAAF has a variety of benefits, and obvious advantages over a variety of competing aircraft. It could also serve as a potentially significant export earner for the South African defence industry. However, it will likely remain an interesting concept to be considered by military planners, but ultimately unlikely to see the light of day until the SAAF sees a significant increase in its budget. ENDS
And now for my little contribution: Apart from the 105mm howitzer, 30mm & 25mm cannons, in the pics are some of the existing SA weapons systems we could include for a truly modular system.
N.B. Yes, yes I know about the jet engine...
As the KC-390 development edges closer production. We are going to see more articles like this. A jet powered gunship in Africa?
A gunship requirement will be there in the future but developing would be highly costly.
The MC-27J and CASA 295 are better options. As development for gunship variants of these plane are already under way. The MC-27J being even more better as it comes with Roll on and Roll off pallets. Which transform it into a gunship within hours.
And offers better payload than the 295.
Retiring the Boeing 707 cause of the promise of the A400M coming our way was mistake.
SA components can include systems such as the: Airbus GOSHAWK-II HDT, Denel Cam gun, Saab EW protection systems etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5fBOvkbnI0 Namibian Army Artillery school opening Ceremony...@ViceAdmiral peep the red Berrets are wearing that Digi camo that you're fond of
Its for mounted use and is meant to replace the above mentioned weapons as it can be mounted on anything that fits FN Mag and up, especially for remote weapons stations. The AGL is a good weapon, but has range and accuracy problems and the 60mm patmor can do a better job at indirect fire at the platoon level. The 50cal has range ,but no HE capability. The iNkunzi is an attempt at performing all these roles.
The 50 cal is now almost 100 years old. No reason to not try and improve on it.
Mistake.
The is accurate when coupled with the computer.
Remember: The 50 cal is battalion fire support weapon. Putting massive and accurate lead down range. With the iNkuzi gunners might have to count every shell fired cause 20mm aren't cheap.
That's why many 20mm systems have 12,7mm training systems.
Remember how the Rhodesia K-Car gunners really waited for a perfect moment to fire the 20mm.
61mech: The SAW caliber debate has been going on for a while now. My opinion is that the proof is in the pudding. In actual combat in Iraq/Afghanistan the guys in the field want the 7.62mm back in the squad. Not a very nice feeling when you are getting overmatched by a PKM and your M249 is just pissing in the wind. I don't have a problem with 5.56 in a assault rifle (6.5 would be optimal), but it's just not going to penetrate in the African bush as a GPMG.
That 20mm is just being launched now at AAD. It looks like we might have a system that can replace 7.62/50cal/40mm AGL. Jack of all trades , master of none. BTW the 20mm PAW has already been sold to a foreign customer. Probably for SF
The 20mm cannon is nothing new but an improved or upgraded version of MG 151 cannon.
Which was used on helicopter gunships during the boarder wars. Also used by SF units mounted on vehicles.
It can never replace the mentioned weapons in the infantry. The AGL is an effective fire support weapon both direct and indirect. Meaning it can be used like a mortar.
61mech: The problem is the 100 round drum. Causes stoppages. That's why the Singapore army runs it with mags. The original R-4 50 round mag was meant for the planned heavy barrel R-4 that was never adopted. We didn't have that many problems with the 50 rounders as long as you download them to 40-45. They might just be getting old now. Mags don't last forever. The 35 round mag also had to be downloaded to 30 for it to function properly.
Personally, i don't like the 5.56 saw concept and you can see the countries involved in Afghanistan/Iraq now having buyer's regret. If your squad can't handle the weight, you have a fitness problem not a caliber one. Mujahideen hump 7.62 PKM over mountain ranges all day long on a loaf of flatbread. Here's a pick of the r4 heavy as well as the new denel 20mm belt fed.
The 20mm cannons we have been using were mostly from retired aircraft.
Foreign Affairs › Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by MikeCZA: 5:07pm On Aug 10, 2016
