₦airaland Forum

nemesis2u:
because of many reasons
1.inadequate training ,
2.failure to adhere to SOP/ROE
3.failure of sensors
4.failure to adapt/counter to SAAF spoofing techniques
5.firing without guaranteed WA solution
6.poor interception solutions
7.poor “Recognized Air Situation Picture” (RASP)
etc.

that is why i said fighters/interceptors are the best guarantee to air defense.

Nope.

South Africa's defence industry.

In short during war time major powers with the help of their defence industries can tailor their systems for an enemy at short notice.

gottfried21:
What do you mean?

Different ones.

africaken254:
Did terrain masking help RAF Tornado GR1 jets during gulf war 1 from suffering heavy losses !

Nope.

Guess which air force they visited after the war.

Patchesagain:
No it doesnt.

16 years of continuous combat and you have one video of an Abrams suffering a catastrophic failure?

T-72's pop their turrets every time they see combat.

Big difference

Rhodesian tank crew and their stolen tank (google it)

Correction: Donated tank.

gottfried21:
Namibian Marine corps

What's with the rifles cousins? what's with the rifles?

africaken254:
Ethiopia air force SU-27

I didn't know Ethiopia was a European country.

nemesis2u:
Pantsir-S1/S2 system is a point defense system a SRSAM to be exact not a medium range sam.

You are defining the usage of the system.

The missiles it carries are of medium range.

It's only draw back for the African battlespace is the combination of the sensors, missiles and cannons in one vehicle. As African countries can't afford many systems.

In an event of an air to ground strike the poor chaps in the battery control centre we will be left blind without any capability to engage or wade off further incoming attacks.

nemesis2u:
i have a different point of view though ,

the only guarantee of a foolproof air defense is your fighter elements.

ground based air defense is essentially a supporting and back up element.

SAMs are basically classified according to slant range and engagement altitude.

we have
1.MANPADS
2.SHORT RANGE SAM
3.ER-SHORADS
4.MEDIUM RANGE SAM
5.LONG RANGE SAM
6.VERY LONG RANGE SAM

against maneuvering and agile targets using terrain masking flight profile ,

1.MANPADS will have the highest kill probability under best case scenario

Not really.

The South African air force is known for using terrain masking flight and attack profiles such as the long toss.

During the war in Angola 300+ IR and 70+ radar guided missiles failed to hit "certain SAAF" aircraft.

Why?

There's no reason for many African countries to acquire long range or very long range SAMs.

Usage of SAMs is like artillery it is guided by doctrine. They can be deployed unconventionally.

That's why the Umkhonto missile with GPS can attack stationary ground targets.

Patchesagain:
Problem is that when you base things off of diversity, it means that merit is no longer the most saught after quality - and the effectiveness of the organization reflects that.

There is a guy called Charles C. Johnson, who bets against companies on the stock market... specifically, he bets against companies that implement quota systems. He has made millions.


Hoefyster turrets

Are you sure some turret(s) aren't missing there?

Anyway, I wish this was one of them. Long range, highly accurate even better than the cancelled NLOS howitzer.

Odunayaw:
judging from our history...Sukhois and their operational costs?..NAF logistics command would shoot d idea dead
we can only start seeing them if some1 like cameroon decides to get rafales(which we know is impossible)

I would prefer we invest in SAMs...2 batteries of HQ-9 SAMs and 4 AKASH systems will make even a major power think twice b4 sending its pilots to vahalal

Even if Nigeria acquired 20 batteries of the HQ-9 major powers would still be able to turn your armed forces into rebels within two weeks.

Medium range missiles are perfect for our needs in Africa. An example is the Pantsir-S1 system.

chkil:
Algerian Air Force UAV use the Seeker II and Seeker 400 from the south african (Denel Dynamics )

Seeker II in the pictures.

I don't think the 400 is in service with any nation.

chinese8107:
LG5 40mm AGL max range 2200 m effective range 800 m

How many grenades can it hold in it's drum magazine?

SergeAlain:
Our state of equipment and technology in the armed forces is poor, but it is still hundred times better than the state of the softer things which go such a long way to determine troop morale, things like care for the wounded, entitlements for the dead, supply of non-weapon items to troops on the field e.g. medicals, sanitary items etc. Sadly it is these things that make the difference between a developed military and an underdeveloped one, and no one seems to be seriously thinking of addressing these things.

I once was carried in a taxi in PH by an ex sergeant who fought in Liberia and got a medal for gallantry, and he told me his harrowing experience after being shot in the leg and almost lost his leg. Ultimately it took the direct intervention of his CO who was aware of his uncommon bravery for him to be included among those evacuated to Egypt where his leg was saved. By the time he finished his story, this tough man had tears in his eyes. this was in early 2000s. This is almost 20 years later and sadly the stories are much the same.

When will we learn

Things are changing though.

kikuyu1:
ITS OFFICIAL-STEALTH IS NOW DEAD AS THE VINYL RECORD!!

[img]http://www.cira.it/en/comunicazione-en/news/radar-acustico-test/image_mini[/img]

The Italians have a short range civilian acoustic radar using mikes.

http://www.cira.it/en/comunicazione-en/news/radar-acustico-test

I know the Russkies had one over a decade ago-the stealth idea is now kaput!!

Not really.

Marketing messed up our way of thinking of how stealth works or is supposed to.

The Umbani PGM is a modular design  strap on guidance kit for Mark 80 and 82 general purpose bombs.

The kit transforms general purpose bombs into long range glide bombs with high accuracy in all weather conditions due to it's GPS/INS guidance. The GPS/INS guidance also allows aircraft to engage and destroy camouflaged and hidden targets such as command posts.

The basic version without pop out wings has a range of about 40km.

Drop and forget.

Unlike the Raptor II which needed a second aircraft to guide it. The Umbani PGM is fully autonomous after launch. A data link which can be added in the rear section of the PGM offers the capability to update target information while it is in flight.

The kit is offered with different seekers. An IIR (Imaging infrared) seeker gives the kitted bomb an ATR(Automatic Target Recognition) also known as scene matching capability.

ATR(Automatic Target Recognition)

Prior to the jets scrambling. Mission planners using systems similar to the SAAF MSS(Mission Support System) can upload target information(images) into the weapon.

During the terminal phase the weapon will be able to compare real-time images with uploaded reference pictures, and home in on the target.

While in the glide phase the weapon is manauvreable meaning it can approach or attack the target from a different direction as the launch aircraft. Attack angles and direction can be loaded by mission planners.


Simplicity.

Being a glide weapon it reduces maintenance costs and life cycle costs.

It is similar to the Israeli Rafael Spice 1000, 2000 and the French Hammer guidance kits.

Although certain public available information suggestions it might be better than in some aspects. Accuracy though marketed as less than 3m CEP with the addition of IIR and laser seekers, some sources reduce it to 1,5m.

The bomb with the bolted on kit is carried upside down as it can be seen this promo video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmkjXZQ0tEc&itct=CAYQpDAYCiITCNT64ZOL-c0CFYuDHAodFXwPNzIHcmVsYXRlZEjC7aiFm-20g88B&client=mv-google≷=ZA&hl=en-GB

PART 1.


When the cold war was heating up in the in 80s.



The Soviet, Warsaw Pact forces and their allies such as Cuba, North Korea etc supported the MPLA government in Angola with logistics, advisers, combat troops etc. The "bush war" started to take a conventional shape making the days where SAAF's air power would dominate battles with lightly armed guerrilla fighters history.


Apartheid South Africa's enemies started to deploy in the field advanced air defence systems such as the SA-8 SAM system a far cry from MANPADS which SAAF faced at the early stages of the war.



Providing the enemy with the capability to deter SA ground attack aircraft or to hinder them from emptying their payload and completing their missions.



Stand-off attack capability was one of the counter measures undertaken to negate the growing enemy anti-air capability threat. Giving ground forces the capability to deny attacking aircraft from completing their mission or emptying their payload.



The competence or skills in developing stand off attack weapons is still being maintained.



Enter the Umbani guidance kit!(marketed as the Al tariq) in the UAE.  Offered by Tawazun Dynamics(a joint venture company between the UAE's Tawazun Dynamics and South Africa's Denel Dynamics)

Henry24o:
Any reports of how the G6 fared in Yemen?


I also think the possibility of the G6 seeing actual combat is quite high, however i do not believe the G6 would be completely replaced by this. They'll most likely work in tandem.



The Nigerian army probably also needs to replace it's long range artillery, this system could replace our Oto Melara Palmaria 155mm artillery howitzer.

Difficult to get information when customers from the middle east and North Africa are involved.

It will never replace the Rhinoceros. The G6 is a perfect Bush breaker and can back up as a recovery vehicle at times.

I'm still trying to get info. The G7 105mm ammunition is highly effective and better than most internationally available 155mm ammo.

Henry24o:
The SANDF is looking at the possibility of acquiring 6 units of Denel T5-45 Howitzers





An overview of the Howitzer.


Denel Land Systems (DLS) took the
opportunity to demonstrate its truck-
mounted 155 mm T5-52 artillery
system during an event held at South
Africa's Overberg Test Range in April.
The company wanted to highlight the
system's superior range when firing
rocket-assisted projectiles (54.8 km
at sea level), rate of fire (six rounds
in the first minute, with a sustained
rate of fire of 2 per minute), and its
ability to fire six rounds that land
simultaneously on the same target.
The gun can also be elevated from 3°
to +72°, allowing it to be used in the
direct fire role: a capability that was
demonstrated when it put two rounds
into the same impact point at 1,000 m.
The T5-52 system essentially comprises
the DLS 155 mm/52-calibre gun
mounted on an 8x8 Tatra truck, with
a gross system weight of around 38
tonnes.
Its 300 kW turbo-charged diesel gives
it a speed of 85 km/h, while the road
and cross-country ranges are 600 km
and 300 km, respectively. The vehicle
with the gun mounted is 10.1 m long,
2.9 m wide, and 3.48 m high. It has a
ground clearance of 41 cm and can
ford to a depth of 1.4 m. The 40%
gradient and approach and departure
angles of 32° and 39° give adequate
mobility off-road for an artillery
system.
The system carries complete rounds in
a container behind the cab so they are
adjacent to the breech of the rearward-
firing gun. The vehicle is stabilised by
hydraulic jacks, with the hydraulic
power for them and the other systems
being taken from the truck or another
vehicle if necessary.
The crew comprises four on-mount and
two ammunition handlers off-mount
when additional ammunition is used.
The time into and out of action is 60
seconds, and loading is assisted by a
semi-automatic rammer, automatic
primer loading, and an optional three-
round magazine and three-round
crane .
The system is offered with a completely
integrated command and fire-control
and communications system, and can
be supplied with the related
observation, meteorological, and other
equipment. It fires the full range of
ballistically matched ammunition using
base-bleed units that can be fitted in
the field and a modular charge system
with combustible cases.

If this goes through. Though highly unlikely it means the chances of the G6 self propelled howitzer ever seeing action in the hands of the SA army are highly unlikely.

chinese8107:
Yes.they don't care too much too.Even if more attacks .They only gild their face.

The was much discussion in the media (well CCTV) prior to the deployment. Of what must happen if the peacekeepers find themselves in this situation.

ViceAdmiral:
Why are these guys fighting again?

There's still a window to loot the country's wealth, establish dictatorships etc pretty much anything.


Before professional institutions are set up which might hinder that.

chinese8107:
in a joint opertion of airforce and army

Quadcopter UAVs or other unmaned drone must coorninate with maned Aircraft （ie， don't mis-recongnize friend with enemy.the UAVs must not fly too high the Warplane must not fly too low to avoid colide with each other.)There will be more and more drone in future battlefield. a tactical data link (TDL) between each other is important.

Many countries are already developing the doctrine. Fighters and UAVs.

Mixed formations.

africaken254:
from yesterday SPLA soldiers were on a killing,raping and looting spree,if you have someone in juba just pray he or she is safe

Would be a huge mistake for Machar to head back to the bush.

Henry240:
I don't get?

Minister of water and irrigation.


http://www.informationng.com/2016/05/meet-south-sudans-current-minister-for-water-resources-and-irrigation-photos.html

africaken254:
if i was Obama i would order air strikes on kiir forces by tonight ,diminishing his capability.those gunships wouldn't be flying by tomorrow

Ugandans will be moving in again.

I knew that government was a joke when they appointed that minister of water of theirs.

nemesis2u:
https://www.grafika24.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/AHRLAC-Plane-Graphic.jpg

AHRLAC (Advanced High Performance Reconaissance Light Aircraft,
i really like the idea here,
but whats its latest status, any info?

good option for african countries

Next prototype being built.

Boeing developing the mission system.

Receiving interests way outside Africa.

africaken254:
LOL

He doesn't know he's probably being monitored.

bidexiii:
Spotters......?

Yes.
Troops can request a fire mission.

bidexiii:
Of course they av much devastating effect and blast radius...!

Let's be realistic here: even the best trained soldier in the world would not stand BHT AAG/HMG blazing from all directions in a base that is not well protected, That's suicidal

If you want u mortar fire to be accurate and to be effective, it as to be from a defensive position. How do you want to range ur enemy position when you av high calibre shells firing on ur positions.

Spotters.

Henry240:
Botswana

The president in the cockpit?

Once saw him fly at an air show.

chinese8107:
off topic
I never thought this toy could drift on water

Would be seriously useful in countries like Tanzania, Nigeria etc.

ssaengine:
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44139:sa-navy-completes-successful-live-firing-exercise&catid=111:sa-defence&Itemid=242

SOUTH AFRICAN NAVY COMPLETES LIVE FIRING EXERCISE



The live firing section of the SA Navy’s force preparedness exercise Red Lion saw on target hits from a trio of platforms at the weekend.

The Valour Class frigates SAS Amatola and SAS Spioenkop supported by the Heroine Class submarine SAS Manthatisi conducted a co-ordinated torpedo and missile firing against a derelict fishing vessel south-west of Cape Point, in the Pandora training area.

“The objective of the firings was to test the full live firing sequence within the vessels and of the guided weapons and to exercise a co-ordinated and simultaneous attack on a single target by a submarine and frigates.

“All the three guided weapons were launched and detonated successfully on the target,” the Navy’s Captain Zamo Sithole said.

The frigates fired Exocet anti-ship missiles while the submarine fired an Atlas Elektronik SUT 264 torpedo.

https://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx267/Jerrycan_photo/IMG_8665_Ex%20Red%20Lion_zpsbotsw7bz.jpg

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/images/stories/SEA/exocet_amatola_launch_400x300.jpeg

https://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm176/aerodean/Misl/Bressey%20Bank%202.jpg

Rare event in Sub Saharan Africa.

maintaining the skills.

Wish fighters were included but the target was tiny.

chinese8107:
You are talking about ahead ammunition with sub projectiles . Then how many AHEAD ammunition you counted ? Are sub projectiles not cluster munition? Must I not talking about cluster munition?You said :“i was wondering can the AHEAD ammunition be adapted for ground use by helicopters and land based vehicles.” What's the matter if I say nothing about ahead ammunition since somebody already reply to you.

The AHEAD ammunition contains tungsten pellets.

The pellets aren't explosive.