₦airaland Forum

tdayof:
Sinking a carrier in this century will be tough.

Not really.
Besides the British in the Falklands since WW2 carriers have never faced any real threat.

tdayof:
Five Reasons U.S. Aircraft Carriers Are Nearly Impossible To Sink
https://nationalinterest.org/files/styles/main_image_on_posts/public/main_images/5526433794_35ff1d8459_o.jpg?itok=zcbo4RBX
Loren B. Thompson
August 11, 2016
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Large-deck, nuclear-powered aircraft carriers are the signature expression of American military power. No other combat system available to U.S. warfighters comes close to delivering so much offensive punch for months at a time without requiring land bases near the action. As a result, the ten carriers in the current fleet are in continuous demand from regional commanders -- so much so that extended overseas combat tours are becoming the norm.

Nobody really doubts the utility of large-deck carriers. There's nothing else like them, and the United States is the only nation that operates a fleet big enough to keep three or more carriers continuously deployed at all times. However, two issues have come up over and over again since the Cold War ended that have led at least some observers to question why carriers are the centerpiece of America's naval fleet. One concern is that they cost too much. The other is that they are vulnerable to attack.

The cost issue is a canard. It only costs a fraction of one-percent of the federal budget to build, operate and sustain all of the Navy's carriers -- and nobody has offered a credible alternative for accomplishing U.S. military objectives in their absence. Critics say carriers are more expensive than they seem because an accurate accounting would include the cost of their escort vessels, but the truth of the matter is that the Navy would need a lot more of those warships if it had to fight conflicts without carriers.

The vulnerability issue is harder to address because putting 5,000 sailors and six dozen high-performance aircraft on a $10 billion warship creates what military experts refer to as a very "lucrative" target. Taking one out would be a big achievement for America's enemies, and a big setback for America's military. However, the likelihood of any adversary actually achieving that without using nuclear weapons is pretty close to zero. It isn't going to happen, and here are five big reasons why.

Large-deck carriers are fast and resilient. Nimitz-class carriers of the type that dominate the current fleet, like the Ford-class carriers that will replace them, are the biggest warships ever built. They have 25 decks standing 250 feet in height, and displace 100,000 tons of water. With hundreds of watertight compartments and thousands of tons of armor, no conventional torpedo or mine is likely to cause serious damage. And because carriers are constantly moving when deployed at up to 35 miles per hour -- fast enough to outrun submarines -- finding and tracking them is difficult. Within 30 minutes after a sighting by enemies, the area within which a carrier might be operating has grown to 700 square miles; after 90 minutes, it has expanded to 6,000 square miles.

Carrier defenses are formidable. U.S. aircraft carriers are equipped with extensive active and passive defenses for defeating threats such as low-flying cruise missiles and hostile submarines. These include an array of high-performance sensors, radar-guided missiles and 20 mm Gatling guns that shoot 50 rounds per second. The carrier air wing of 60+ aircraft includes a squadron of early-warning radar planes that can detect approaching threats (including radar periscopes) over vast distances and helicopters equipped for anti-submarine, anti-surface and counter-mine warfare. All of the carrier's defensive sensors and weapons are netted together through an on-board command center for coordinated action against adversaries.

Carriers do not operate alone. Carriers typically deploy as part of a "carrier strike group" that includes multiple guided-missile warships equipped with the Aegis combat system. Aegis is the most advanced air and missile defense system in the world, capable of defeating every potential overhead threat including ballistic missiles. It is linked to other offensive and defensive systems on board U.S. surface combatants that can defeat submarines, surface ships and floating mines, or attack enemy sensors needed to guide attacking missiles. In combination with the carrier air wing, these warships can quickly degrade enemy systems used to track the strike group. Carrier strike groups often include one or more stealthy attack subs capable of defeating undersea and surface threats.

Navy tactics maximize survivability. Although U.S. aircraft carriers are protected by the most potent, multi-layered defensive shield ever conceived, they do not take chances when deployed near potential adversaries. Their operational tactics have evolved to minimize risk while still delivering the offensive punch that is their main reason for existing. For instance, a carrier will generally not operate in areas where mines might have been laid until the area has been thoroughly cleared. It will tend to stay in the open ocean rather than entering confined areas where approaching threats are hard to sort out from other local traffic. It will keep moving to complicate the targeting challenge for enemies. It will also use links to other joint assets from the seabed to low-earth orbit to achieve detailed situational awareness.

Anything that floats in the open sea can be sunk.

SANDF.

Henry240:
When did the Yahbon Flash 20 become an armed. I'm reading for the first time that the Yahbon, the Flash 20 in particular has an armed variant.


It's a decent long endurance MALE UAV, both those wings aren't designed for wing-loading, but for gliding and long endurance patrols.

Can be mistaken for a giant se.....x toy.

Henry240:
I'm sure the Chinese have something similar.

South Africa has two similar vehicles that I know off. That means China probably has 5 clones and their own version already.

africaken254:
they should try mounting alpha jets with B-8 rocket pod,during the afghan war USSR pilots urged the upgrade to the 80 mm S-8 rocket due to the poor performance of 55 mm S-5M rocket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-5_rocket

I doubt Nigeria has a flutter flight test aircraft or an excitation system to support WI(Weapons integration).


So new weapons stores like I said are of systems previously integrated on the aircraft type to reduce risks.

On the Southern tip of Africa the 68mm SNEB rockets were found to be less effective compared to 70mm fin folding Belgian rockets.

ViceAdmiral:
Not too sure which country this chaps are from

Senegal I think.

africaken254:
those are russian UB-32-57 rocket launcher pods mounted and in the past there was a photo of a nigeria air force alpha jet with UB-16-57UMP rocket launcher pod.the photo posted below with a marked UB-16-57UMP rocket launcher pod

Weapons already integrated on the aircraft. New stores requires a lot of testing.

Flutter might destroy some.

giles14:
Nigeria looks to buy 12 new Mil Mi-35 assault helicopters


http://defence-blog.com/news/nigeria-looks-to-buy-12-new-mil-mi-35-assault-helicopters.html

Mi-28N Nigeria Mi-28N!

Looks like measures undertaken to address war and natural attrition.

thedarksider:
give me a break..why was jonathan begging america to sell us weapons,although jonathan whorshipped the west?....

we have alfa-jets,and uganda has sukois'??..................

The Jonathan administration was hostile to the west.

It is only now that western forces are coming back to Nigeria to provide training to some units.

DEATHMACHINE:
hahahahaha Abi na, GOODNEWS i am off to the North East again
ROUND THREE

Have a safe and great hunting season.

Good luck!

bidexiii:
Guys you av to watch these video of BHT, you av to see dead bodies of frontline troops . And these is another recent video these year. The war is yet far from over.


WATCH: ISIS in West Africa Shows Clashes With Nigerian Army & African Coalition

http://heavy.com/news/2016/08/new-isis-islamic-state-daesh-amaq-amaaq-news-pictures-videos-abubakar-shekau-boko-haram-isis-video-west-africa-full-uncensored-youtube-video-mp4-download/

Yet, the army keeps saying they are dealing with remnants of the group. A little honesty could help.

africaken254:
alshabaab leaders have lease than 4 year life span

Shows what cooperation can do.

LTGEN:
Thank you guys for being matured with your responses with no name calling or chest beating or disparaging comments this is not a Nigeria versus S'Africa contest, and let me remove any doubt, The S'African Military industrial complex is years ahead however that is not the issue.
Thank you Mr Henry for setting Mr " D" straight the focus of my discussion was the Gecko and the other IFV that was profiled and I detailed a vast open hostile area like the Lake Chad or the Bad lands between Kenya and Somalia
Mr Patches with great respect you are not going to sneaking up on anybody, this is not a static warfare and i say this with great respect for your knowledge you Geckos would of already been on the ground and they will be facing a swarm of Technical that have a range of 2 k.m Mr HENRY Please tell him the name of BH FAVORITE TECHNICAL.
I will go to the battle of Bangui by BH standards that was SYMMETRIC WAR and S'Africa still lost quite a few of those Gecko , and yes Nigeria has lost equipment ( lots) to . When I see those pictures of those GECKO actually "towing" heavy equipment I see a bullet riddled Gecko with Multiple casualties the day the Air force does not show up on time,
In Nigeria with CAS intervention time is now 15 minutes however you are expected to fight on your own for a least an hour.
i do not pray to see the day S'A frican wake up to see that their " jeep" is obsolete but the fact is the next real asymmetric war they will fight will be it, then the enemy is not going to wait for you to load your equipment up and land decently at your DZ that to me is Static warfare so far S'AFRICA has been blessed in the DRC, I hope it stays that way.
Mr" D" like MR Henry said Nigeria has made do with what it had, let me tell to you one grim change they made :The OCKTAR apc does not seem to feature prominently any more in intensive fire fight before like the GECKO they were all over the place.

The Gecko is a multi-role vehicle similar to the British ATMP.

Read a bit about the Cassinga raid.

Watch videos online SAAF air power demonstrations videos. The paratroopers are supported by combat aircraft.

The paras can't jump with mortars, AGLs, ammunition etc strapped to them. The vehicles enables them to faster regroup and position themselves.

They are not armoured combat vehicles.

Technicals are not really a problem: Force density, night fighting capability etc

LTGEN:
This type of vehicle plus the beloved S'African Gecko would not do very well in the Lake Chad regions bordering Chad /Niger/Nigeria.It also would be in serious trouble in the No Man's land between Kenya and Somalia
It is too exposed and can't take one RPG or a buried IED
I may hurt some feelings but it is no better than the thin skinned Toyota Hiluxes . They are essentially H.M.V.

Heh Not necessarily.

ValerianSteel:
Israel has the most active air fighting force in the world,developed to counter new threats as they develop.The S-300 has been called the gold standard ADS by Russia and militaries currently possessing them,Israel has called the bluff on this one,Egypt operates a variant of it in the Gaza Strip which Israel can now easily identify and track from the air with the overhauled and modified F-15s.

The S-400 is even more useless when faced with the F-35,it operates a radar range of 400km as compared to the F-35's 2060km.Worthy of note is the masking technology incorporated into every Israeli jets.Israel has successfully overhauled fighters like the F15 and F16's to outperform the ones flown by American counterparts.Incorporation of Israeli systems on these jets have seen successes in bombing missions such as the raids on Sadam Hussein's nuclear reactors and precision guided raids against terrorist locations which have gone smoothly evading enemy radar.

The S-400 batteries Russia positioned in Syria cannot match the strength and effectiveness of Israel's F-35,the ADS would be rendered useless by a fighter that can sniff it's location from over 1000km always.

All I'm seeing here is your opinion.

Provide facts with citations.

africaken254:
so its true a uganda Sukhoi Su-30MK2 did crash-land at Entebbe International airport

Landing gear failed to deploy?

Cool picture anyway!

Henry240:
Yeah Oga Doziex, one and the same. We've been here for a long while.


I do remember Oga, and yes i was also part of those who accused you of "fear mongering". However, looking back, i see i was hopelessly short-sighted.


I may no like Buhari as a president, however the one thing i'm sure he is doing very right is keeping Dasuki, Amosu and Badeh in prison. They should rot in jail, that's the only way we can move forward as a country. They should be joined immediately by KTJ Minimah, and Azubuike Iheajirika.


With the monies the former President (GEJ) released, the funds were well enough to at the very least properly equip the men.

The brazen acts of corruption was simply to scary. I mean, if a person provides a service of 1 naira, and pockets 1 naira, this could be argued. It is simply evil and utterly devilish to provide a service of 1 naira, then you steal 100 naira.


They should not be allowed to leave prison, if heaven wants to fall down, let it fall. If they want to die in prison because of lack of medical attention let them die. They must provide all our monies, and their families must also pay. This is blood money.



The President has to be encouraged. If this is the only thing he does through out his tenure, Nigeria would be light years better for it.

Wouldn't establishment of a arms procurement agency help reduce corruption in the department?

As money would be removed from the hands of military chiefs. Maybe they will chow small monies for salaries, incentives, training, maintainance etc.

nemesis2u:
AGM-119 Penguin

Primary Function Helicopter launched anti-ship missile.
Contractor Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk (Norway)
Power Plant Solid propellant rocket motor and solid propellant booster
Length 120.48 inches (3.06 meters)
Launch Weight 847 pounds (385 kilograms)
Diameter 11.2 inches (28.45 centimeters)
Wing Span 30 in's folded, 55 in's Deployed
Range 25 nautical miles / 35 km
Speed 1.2 Mach maximum
Guidance Inertial and infrared terminal.
Warhead 265 lbs gross, 110 lbs High Explosive, semi armor piercing
derivative of the Bullpup missile
Date Deployed Fourth quarter 1993

The PENGUIN missile is a short-to-medium range inertially guided missile with infrared (IR) terminal homing. The missile consists of a seeker, navigation and control section, warhead,rocket motor, four folding wings and four canards. It is capable of gravity drop launches at low speeds and altitudes. Ships and surfaced submarines are the missiles primary targets. A principal operational advantage of Penguin is its relatively long operational range, which permits a helicopter armed with Penguin to remain outside the launch envelopes of potential targets. ThePenguin missile has an indirect flight path to target. It is also operated in "fire-and-forget" mode to allow multiple target aqusition. The Penguin is fired from a launcher or a stage weighing approximately 1100 pounds (500 kilograms).

The Penguin is a uniquely capable weapon against small combatants and surfaced submarines in the littoral environment. The IR seeker head is effective against a wide range of targets and its profile is hard to defend against. It is a short-to-medium range inertially guided missile and is capable of gravity drop launches at low speeds and altitudes. A "fire-and-forget" missile, the Penguin has a 360 degree arc, autonomous search, acquisition and track during terminal phase, discriminates between target decoys and is resistant to IR countermeasures.

Penguin is a fully digitized missile with canard control. The high resolution, passive infrared seeker provides a high degree of discrimination and target selection, and ensures efficient operation in confined, as well as open waters. The high accuracy, inertial navigation system ensures the missile's capability of target detection, and provides the flexibility of mid-course trajectory via pilot-designated way-point.

An efficient 120 kg warhead, with an impact point close to the target's waterline, will inflict serious damage to medium size surface combatants or other targets. The missile is powered by a solid propellant two stage rocket motor. The Penguin can be adapted to helicopters, fixed wing patrol aircraft as well as fighter aircraft. The missile system is software integrated into the aircraft avionic system. with the use of existing equipment for suspension, control and operation.

The sea variant of the Rooivalk which was proposed in the late 90s was going to carry this missile instead of the Mokopa.

ValerianSteel:
I didn't imply it wasn't the S-400 did I.

The S-400 is trash to the IAF,and when Israel starts flying the F-35Adir in Syria,it would be reduced to dust.

Explain please.

Henry240:
What's a "G car" and "Allouet K"?


NAF A109s are fitted with M2 Browing 50 CALs. I do agree they need FLIR systems on board all NAF LUHs.

The transport helicopters of the fire force.

K- Cars are the armed ones. Armed with a 20mm canon.

ValerianSteel:
Trash soon to be destroyed by IAF F-35Adir.

No, it's the S400! Not just any SAM.

Henry240:
LMFAO..... Chinese, enough with the video games. You don't really believe the parts of your comment in bold.

Such equipment exists.

Ground penetrating radar: Used on specialist demining vehicles such as the Casspir variant and civilian mining purposes.

Wall penetrating radar: Used mainly by SWAT like units to observe movements behind walls on hostage and other situitions.

Henry240:
PLASAN SANDCAT.

Cannot withstand or absorb 14.5mm rounds.
Occupants must debus to fight not a great idea in raiding special ops.

Henry240:
Nothing specialized about been getting shot at with a 14.5mm or Dshk. They feel the same way to both conventional and unconventional forces.

Hence the Plasan Sandcat from Israel provides that middle ground.

A lot of work goes into the planning of special ops.

That's why you see NATO sf units in Syria hanging around with the Javelin ATGM.

Only high end IFVs such as the Rosomak can absorb some 14.5mm rounds with it's occupants still safe.

The Hornet for an example can carry the: "Chinese rocket launcher, a heavy machine gun or 20mm cannon or a grenade launcher plus a General purpose machine gun.

Publicly available picture.

An example is this picture these chaps are escorting the president inside a city. A short mission but they have carried a lot of stuff as if they are heading to mars and never going to return to planet South Africa.

Then on special ops more equipment will be carried such as Jerrycans, more ammo etc.

Without armour the vehicle's weight is reduced.

Henry240:
Since we are in the topic of RDRVs, a little bit OFF-TOPIC, British SAS are in Syria, photos recently emerged of SAS in Syria and they are driving Jordanian made Al-thalab vehicles.


Looking all exposed in those vehicles, I just can't see the benefit of these vehicles.


Frumentius please don't share what you're not comfortable with.

They are for special forces.

The men fight or engage the enemy in a specialized way meaning their requirements slightly differ from conventional forces.

Special ops mean they operate far away from logistics bases. So they must carry everything they need(lubricants, foods, communication equipment ete) on the little battle wagons. Meaning many parts such as armour, at times doors are going to be stripped to make space.

During attacks the element of surprise is used. RDVs carry a lot of power for their sizes.

nemesis2u:
no
Hamina-class 250 tons

2nd pic visby class

Carries the Denel SAM.

Some saffers say we choose the Badger IFV which is based on the Finnish Patria AMV cause of that deal.

But whatever "BADGER DON'T CARE"

Prototype below:

frumentius:
...sort of LAV Henry likes. Not quite rapid deployment for SF though.

Only less than 8 men can be carried.

The paras may be considered light infantry. Would great if they vehicles like the RG-32M.

Two of these babies can be swallowed in the belly of the C-130.

They'd compliment the SF Hornets well in direct action roles. Using the paras as a support force.

andrewza:
we don't have a heavy lift helicopter so even the m777 is to heavy. The G5 is ok for us and the T5 will be a good buy to. South Africa will not buy foreigner Artillery. It does not make sense to give other courtiers the money when we can do it our self's. We all so unable to field larg batteries of guns we don't have the man power so if we limited to a few guns they better be the best. All so the G5 is not that expensive the cost is all the extra on it that we would still need know matter what we bought only now we will need to integrate our fire control computer to a brand new gun.

The batteries have been reduced to 6 guns per battery.

As a cost effective measure. During the war in Angola they each battery had 8 guns.

chinese8107:
UK.BAE m777 (XM777) 155mm howitzer helicopter air tranportable. only 4086kg CEP 10m range 30～40km .I think also C-130 tranportable.

Maybe G7 is even lighter more tranportable or more cost effetive.

Yes, it is C-130 transportable.

Keep in mind only heavy helicopters such as the Chinook, CH53 and the V22 tiltrotor aircraft can carry. Unavailable or expensive to acquire for many countries. Atleast the M119 105mm howitzer medium transport helicopters such the Super Puma can carry it. Only drawback is range and accuracy.



The M777 has 30km + maximum range with rocket assisted shells.

Lower rate of fire compared to the G7.

Indeed. The CEP will increase with the range.

chinese8107:
I would choose weight. Air transportablity.

By "Air transportabilty" you mean transportable in helicopters or C-130 sized aircraft?

If it is by helicopters then the requirement should be scaled down to 105mm.

The G7 105mm howitzer's IGALA ammunition range pre-fragmented shells can match 155mm shells available on the market in terms of performance[lethality and accuracy(CEP)] and still outrange many.

The weight will also be low compared to 155mm systems.

Less weight and size! Both the gun and projectiles. Enabling you to bring high tonnage of ammunition.