africaken: the Gripen PS-05/A radar has a detection range 120 km of a fighter plane,while SU-30mk1 has NIIP N011M Bars passive electronically scanned array radar with a search range of 400 km and tracking range of 200 km .uganda SU-30 mk1 have being used in bombings in south sudan
agaugust: The violent disaster we have now in Burundi is the result of SANDF military operation failure when they intervened in Burundi few years ago. AU should just find a track record experienced battle tested and success proven Kenyan, Angolan, Ugandan, Tanzanian, or Zimbabwean army general commander to lead the new AU force in Burundi, SAAF can support mission with 3 Rooivalks and 18 armed Oryx Transport helicopters. Africa needs capable hands not just those hunting for national glory or pride via intervention forces, hundreds of thousands of civilian lives are at stake in African conflict zones today. Let's put sentiments aside and save our innocent civilian black brothers and sisters from untimely death .
what disaster?
How does a military organization have anything to do with a president who chose to run for the presidency the fourth time(politics).
africaken: museveni did intervene in south sudan successful,i expected tanzania to have intervene.it seems non of the regional want to due to cost,politics,militarily incapable or still involve in regional or domestic issues.anyone who wants to intervene has to intimidate the Burundians by show of force
I can't really call the South Sudan intervention successful.
It would be a huge mistake for Tanzania to go at it alone, "military specialists and advisors" would poor into Burundi from some country. To deliver a strike a it's president once threatened against TZ.
gottfried21: Those Burundians are no joke I tell you back in Congo they targeted Namibian Y-12 transports with SAMs and AA guns forcing the Namibians on the ground to miss out on a week's worth of rations and shoot gorillas instead
They don't have resources to battle any of the ready standby forces.
The majority of the military wouldn't be willing to fight.
Did you know: No SAAF aircraft "protected" by special paint was downed during the conflict in Angola?
frumentius: 1) Both the Tanzos and Malawians were professional, well-trained, disciplined soldiers! As both countries are members of SADC and send officers to SA for advanced courses, integrating SOPs wasn't as hard as one would expect. Though there were problems:
a) Tanzo Eastern-block artillery with the D-30 system was limited in terms of efficiency. The Denel M8 81 mm Long Range Mortar was more effectively brought into play from Forward OPs for 2 reasons :- i) Digital targeting system; ii) Real-time data links.
b) SA mortar doctrine calls for both offensive and defensive uses; the FIB 4IC was a Canadian who thought mortars were at best defensive weapons and at worst, obsolete; needless to say, he was converted and I suspect will forever proselytise.
c) Malawian Batt had an entire Company who could have walked into any SF unit in the world. I've never seen so many Tower of Power badges on any individual company and yet, because their military has no SF, they were relegated to "elite infantry company". [this has changed, I'm told, with that same Company forming the 1st nascent SF unit in the Malawian military in the latest SADC SF Exercise in Zimbabwe; pics attached of that MALBATT Co.]
2) Terrain? Go back to my pics! The east of the DRC is volcanic hills, jungle and lake-bound flat ground upon which nestle the tropical cities. The last dictator, Mobutu, deliberately didn't build rail or road links to impede mobility lest he be overthrown! I personally know of an instance when guys from 6SAI in 35 vehicles drove 10 hours, and then walked 8 hours, to a target 70km away!
3) As for the TanzoBATT, when I was in DRC, their BATT consisted of 800 pax, in a ratio of 1:4 for fighting vs support infantry. This excludes about 30 SF and artillery whose number I never did determine. Most optimistically, they could always deploy 160-180 fighting men. At those numbers, it makes sense they are so well equipped.
The SANDF at some time wanted to replace the 81 with the longer range and newer 60.
bidexiii: It's rather better than late....... I wonder what took them so long before the video was released.
Thee troops where extremely cautious, at the beginning if the video I heard an officer shouting don't fire.... repeatedly to the soldiers who where already pointing there riffles towards the crowd, those three officers where brave and lucky.
The truth is violence is the language so people understands!!!!
wouldn't more violence mean Quds presence in Nigeria?
overhypedsteve: but don't you think what you ve just said is total BS? The Nigerian Army have rapid response units not one. They have held their own against the worst terror crisis that any country have ever seen and I am not talking about African countries alone. The Nigerian Army remains a strong force to reckon with in the international war against terror. The theatre of modern conflicts is fast shifting from the deserts, jungles and forest into cities and urban areas. The modern conflict map is changing and the rest of Africa will have to act like they know that cus we in Nigeria we know that. The battle for Aleppo 2012- still ongoing is one of the largest battle the modern world have seen and it was fought right inside the city of Aleppo. We saw the battle for Tripoli, we saw the battle for Bama we saw the battle for Kismayo And the Kurds just took over Sinjar, so it is very reasonable for Africans to criticize any Modern African Mil exercise that does not reflect this realities.
Kismayo fell without any heavy fighting.
The force taking Bama as seen in that Vice video was ill equipped.
Mali, South Sudan, Somalia etc shows where African conflicts are fought.
The Nigerian army lacks rapid response capability.
overhypedsteve: but don't you think what you ve just said is total BS? The Nigerian Army have rapid response units not one. They have held their own against the worst terror crisis that any country have ever seen and I am not talking about African countries alone. The Nigerian Army remains a strong force to reckon with in the international war against terror. The theatre of modern conflicts is fast shifting from the deserts, jungles and forest into cities and urban areas. The modern conflict map is changing and the rest of Africa will have to act like they know that cus we in Nigeria we know that. The battle for Aleppo 2012- still ongoing is one of the largest battle the modern world have seen and it was fought right inside the city of Aleppo. We saw the battle for Tripoli, we saw the battle for Bama we saw the battle for Kismayo And the Kurds just took over Sinjar, so it is very reasonable for Africans to criticize any Modern African Mil exercise that does not reflect this realities.
Perceived as a strong force.
No, Africa rebel force from Savimbi's UNITA to M23 tried holding huge cities against a well armed national army.
agaugust: Definition of the United States Department of Defense military term "exercise "
A military maneuver or simulated wartime operation involving planning, preparation, and execution. It is carried out for the purpose of training and evaluation. It may be a multinational, joint, or single-Service exercise, depending on participating organizations.
AMANI is training, exercise is training, stop misleading people all over Africa, please .
The world powers are moving away from AMANI style conventional warfare training when they deploy troops for the current types of threat the world is facing, that AMANI order of battle and engagement formations/tactics will fail in Mogadishu or Maiduguri when El-Shabab or Boko Haram strikes in urban warfare guerrilla style among hundreds of thousands of civilians.
USA, Russia, France, Britain, have all learnt that lesson and the US Army is now re-training tens of thousands of troops to acquire battle craft for fighting the new type of unconventional threats facing the world today, and Africa included.
Watch the battle theatres used in Flintlock 2015 exercise, poor Chad provided both open desert and sub-urban built up theatres for the exercise, that tells you they as the host have experience of African needs and they feel responsibility to provide excellent battle theatres of different types.
That is what we are saying, relevant training matching the current type of threats prevailing in Africa today. Let us not mislead the whole of Africa just because we don't want our country to be criticized for not doing all it should do as a host, the peace of Africa is more important than personal nationalistic ego.
PHOTOS : EXERCISE FLINTLOCK 2015 IN CHAD
The mo..ron sees no difference between a strategic exercise and a tactical one.
Point remains that Nigeria learnt nothing new from Amani II. As the systems used in the exercise are/ or similar with systems they already field right here at home.
Ever heard about network enabled command and control?
Henry240: Nigeria did not learn anything from Amani. There is nothing new to learn. Are you r3tarded? ......... Nigeria's C2 infrastructure includes a state-of-the-art COBR facility, what can be more advanced than that?
Since 2011 the Nigerian Navy has been operating an advanced Digital C2 system "the installation of a new surface surveillance system, under its Regional Maritime Awareness Capability initiative. The surveillance system, which is a United States Navy-inspired coastal surveillance programme, uses an automatic identification system and ground-based radar and sensors to enhance awareness of maritime activities".
According to NN authorities, such technology has become necessary due to the need for timely and accurate dissemination of information during operations. The NN says such application of information and communications technology will definitely enhance command and control and ICT will play a very important role in tackling some contemporary challenges. The system also assists NN authorities in enforcing
The Nigerian military conducts more regular trainings than any country in Africa. Trainings are regularly scheduled(Kontagora, Jaji, Kachia) to deal with Nigeria's and Africa's contemporary threats, size does not matter you fool.
No, combat does not play out like that. As we've seen in Nigeria, there are multiple occasions where you have to take on the enemy in towns, and cities or defend a towns, cities or villages.
* Pic related, Nigerian Navy's state of the art Digital C2 center installed by Davoize Networks Nigeria Ltd.
Please ask for information or ask us to clarify stuff if you don't understand.
rugged7: Illogical reasoning again ANC built up weapons in south africa under the noses of the south african army able to engage SA- a perceived apartheid superpower, IRA built up weapons and took over neighborhoods under the nose of the british army, Algerian militants took up swathes of land under the algerian army etc etc etc It's still difficult to make out your locus standi for these arguments short of spite... I see you chaps from down under just love abuses, slights and fact misrepresentations just for the hell of it. I'll just leave u all to play ur little games...
MK was never a military threat. It is widely known that the apartheid government leading up to the democratic elections sponsored violence.
rugged7: This is just illogical reasoning. It is impossible for you to postulate "If challenged BH won't fight down to bare hands defending a town" -Yet these are the same boko haram who want 72 virgins in paradise and are willing to die anywhere-whether in an urban setting or "bush" -We have consistently seen boko haram engage NA in cities/towns/villages/LGA/units/districts- whatever u want to call it. Maiduguri, konduga, damasak, banki, baga etc in urban combat. Gwoza is a town and was retaken from boko haram
In the same breathe, you claim it is down to the "ineffectiveness" of "Nigeria armed forces" Yet we have seen major armies, infact all american coalitions being unable to take towns and cities from terrorists for prolonged periods of time. Kunduz, Sinjar, kandahar etc is still fresh in the mind as well. I will assume it was also down to the ineffectiveness of western armies and western-trained armies as well ? i don't really get your locus standi for the point you are trying to make...
Remember the war is in Nigeria's backyard.
The insurgents which didn't have a capability to take cities built a force able to fight the Nigerian military and defeat them at times allowing cities to fall them. They built that force under the nose of west Africa perceived regional power
Other insurgent groups around the world build their force mostly on the limitless supplies of weapons from their toppled government.
Henry240: That is were the actual Fighting is done. Konduga for example was attacked 13 times.
Yes attacked.
Just like Maiduguri the insurgents are easily repelled and fall back to the bushes to live and fight another day. Nigerian military lacks a rapid response capability similar to the Zimbabwean then Rhodesia force fire.
iblawi: Gwoza which is the Boko Haram HQ is also a Bush rite?
Most of them moved to sambisa when the fight became serious. The actual fight start in the towns they were controlling. A very good example is MUBI in Adamawa state which is a major town in the state.
No major urban fighting.
Ineffectiveness of the Nigerian armed forces. If challenged BH won't fight down to bare hands defending a town when challenged by a force similar to the one during Amani.
Henry240: The Fightings in Kidal, Timbucktu, Gao and other Malian cities were what exactly?
Most of the engagements the Nigerian military has had with insurgents have been FIBUA and in close quarters, street-level figthings in urban areas and villages.
I'm really not in the mood to engage you in something you are clearly ignorant of.
As for the un-necessary abuse & gang-up on Agaugust, I find it rather unfortunate. Agaugust made important...... very important intelligent observations.
African militaries currently engaged in operations are not fighting an enemy in wide open fields, the engagements have all been street-level. We do not face a "Russia style" threat, I don't see why the training exercise would mirror that of an enemy you face in wide open fields.
Amani Africa II is in response to the lackluster deployment of African troops to Mali. The enemy in Mali fought in built up areas. We as Africans should learn to do things right, especially in the first instance, as we do not have the money or resources to afford making a mistake.
The cities you talk about are just villages.
There's no major urban fighting right now. Amani was an exercise not training.
Henry240: So Bama, Gwoza, Banki, Maiduguiri, Gombe city, Potiskum, Madagali, Damaturu, Mafa, Dikwa, Gambarou, Ngala, et al are all in Sambisa forest?
The reason i don't want to engage with you South-Africans, and especially on this topic is because, you people "make comments without sense". "Talk without sense".
There's no heavy urban fighting.
Also check the infrastructure of the places you mentioned.
agaugust: My point exactly, Africa should learn to do things right the first time and stop the habit of faltering 5 times before using basic sense and thinking.
All armies should have shipped in their own equipment for AMANI, the host should have provided a simulated sub urban battle scenario as it happens in today's African conflicts, the AU force is not going to intervene in wide open barren land desert style Arab-Israeli war of 1973.
What is worth doing is worth doing well. When you train for war, make it look real.
You're talking non-sense.
The scenario 6 is an AU one not South Africans as you'd love to.
what desert? The field resembles South Sudan, Somalia, Northeast Nigeria, Mali etc
There's no heavy urban fighting in Africa. Rebel forces melt from cities easily when challenged.
agaugust: DRC war was an easy UN intervention against a dead M23 force that was already crippled by UN cutting off their logistics and military support.
When you face Boko Haram, El-Shabab, ISIS, you will see why 5 national armies will battle terrorists for 5 years and still not win. Go ask NATO in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Afghanistan is a huge country. NATO needed more troops.
BH become what is it because of the ineffectiveness of the Nigerian military.
what other armies will do is reduce its capabilities to mass shootings(small arms), bombings etc.
M23 had at its disposal semi-conventional capabilities which surpassed BH at its peak.
agaugust: Is Eben part of today's SANDF ? He was trained by old apartheid SADF not current SANDF.
He was not the only one who trained Nigerians, he trained about 120 men of 72 mobile strike force. Russia and Pakistan trained 5,000 NA men who led the final offensive and were very effective, see their photos all over this thread, just scroll a few pages back and see the Russian Nigerians !
Israeli PMC trained large battalions, so Eben did only a very tiny fraction of training Nigerians.
Video : Israeli Nirtal Ltd PMC training Nigerian SF in North East war zone...
Don't personalize the matter, I believe AU did not do a good training worth the effort in South Africa, AU problem, but the host should have provided an adequate battle theatre that reflects current African needs.....or are they only going to intervene in open land desert wars?
Now it's not about "theatre" but the SANDF. It is clear what your inspires your fantasies.
agaugust: 90% of equipment used were SANDF owned, you had about 8 other armies carrying only rifles about, what type of multinational force training is that? Training with equipment that you do not own and will not use in war. Waste of time. Each army should have shipped it's own vehicle by sea. When that force goes into real conflict, they will be total strangers to each other in terms of equipment inter-operability.
Tanzania, South Africa and Malawi are a great example in the DRC.
Each individual nation will be using its equipment. If needed like the command stuff prior the exercise will be trained in using some equipment.
Inter - operability in terms communications systems will be a problem in the medium term.
agaugust: Col. Eben has said he is NOT a mercenary, he is PMC, trainer NOT fighter.
Did Eben Barlow's PMC take you along into his training field with 72 mobile strike force? Did you see their urban or sub urban theatre training? You followed them around training time for 3 months in North East Nigeria?
Yes or No was he's training effective or ineffective?
agaugust: Emotions and rhetoric do not defeat tactical military facts.
Yes there are training mortar rounds and training cannon rounds if you did not know. They get fired on troops and harm nobody, non-lethal rounds for combat training.
I was not condemning anybody, just not happy that this is all Africa could do, how will that type of training help in a real El-Shabbab, Boko Haram or Seleka attack on an urban city with 100,000 civilians in the war theatre at 12 midnight in total darkness?
That is the type of conflict Africa is facing today, not the type of scenario painted in that exercise, most of what they did there is just a repeat of basic military academy training for new recruits. Most armies that went there gained next to nothing after travelling 2,000 km from home.
How many African conflicts today are happening in a wide open empty dry land, and require AU intervention force?
The battle theatre provided by South Africa is grossly inadequate in terms of today's African conflict realities.
You're clueless.
120mm mortars were used during the final assault. Fighter aircraft were used. armoured personnel carriers were used. IFVs were used.
The mercenaries or whatever you prefer calling them which trained the 72nd strike force were trained in that theatre and I believe they were effective.
Foreign Affairs › Re: African Militaries/ Security Services Strictly Photos Only And Videos Thread by MikeCZAR: 4:03pm On Dec 26, 2015
back in Congo they targeted Namibian Y-12 transports with SAMs and AA guns forcing the Namibians on the ground to miss out on a week's worth of rations and shoot gorillas instead 
repeatedly to the soldiers who where already pointing there riffles towards the crowd, those three officers where brave and lucky.