₦airaland Forum

stillchris:
no. 72 strike force is made up of men from different sf units. i think it's the first special operations unit of the army. i stand corrected though

I think the US trained rangers are the first.

ocelot2006:
Yeah army SF units are totally confusing. There's the 72nd Airborne Battalion that seems to have morphed into a SF battalion. Then there's the South African trained 72nd Strike Force with their REVA MRAPs (probably our own souped up version of the British SAS G-Squadron). Then there is the 143rd Battalion established a 1/2+ years along the lines of US Army Rangers. Other than these i dont know about the rest.

Weren't core members of the 143rd battalion mobilized to create the 72nd strike force?

Patchesagain:
mortars, arty... anything really

Such formations are ordered during contact with the enemy.
Arty is mostly used to soften up the target prior to the ground attack.

Patchesagain:
Frum

One thing I noticed from the display (and other exercises) is that we keep our formations veeery close together... the Moto Inf assault and the Mech assault seemed veery tight esp in comparison to the Angolans who opened up the display

I get it... Angolans were light Inf skirmishing... we deployed Moto Inf and kept them close maximise firepower over a small frontage

But what is the ROE with regards to spacing... While I was watching it, i was thinking "one good MRLS strike and we lose half a battalion"

Firebelt tactic?

Strike during a contact? Rather be concerned with mortars.

Henry240:
"Isn't that the Cobra HMD?". No question it's a pretty advanced system.

It is not.

frumentius:
You're aware "Tacticool" is not a compliment, right?
Seriously though, your guys need to work on the comms set-up. You're ahead of SA on the integrated knee-guards

It is due to lack of funding for project African warrior.

Patchesagain:
EW variant?
Do we currently have wheeled EW platforms?
Any details on existing capabilities?

Casspir and a Ratel.
Angolan main battle tanks communications systems would cut just before battle.

africaken:
SU-34 dropping KAB 500S GLONASS guided Bomb,most russian military didn't believe russia had acquired this bomb after russia ministry of defence said it wont buy them due to their high cost

Did this strike really miss the target as many people are saying or the Russians never meant to destroy that building.

I have to agree to what you said earlier the Russian air force FLIR or targeting pods don't prove quality images.

africaken:
SU-34 dropping KAB 500S GLONASS guided Bomb,most russian military didn't believe russia had acquired this bomb after russia ministry of defence said it wont buy them due to their high cost

.

africaken:
at the moment south would be better off not buying fighter planes but use those funds in the production of more rooivalk helicopter gunships,having seen the fruits of its development in the DRC .This is the most likely aircraft to be needed by the UN in most insurgencies exploding in africa .if today kenya was to acquire between SU-30 jet or MI-28 gunship ,i would rather we acquired MI-28 gunships. africa is more likely to face insurgencies than war between states ,now and in the future

Agreed.

But restarting production isn't that easy.

SAAF uses an Oryx at times as a gunship. Used in Lesetho at the Katse dam when the basotho refused to surrender and opened fire on the lads trying to give them pamphlets.

Patchesagain:
The only thing Russia has to offer that we dont allready have in terms of combat platforms is the Su34

The origional 1998 Defence Reveiwed for a compliment of heavy fighters (ie: Twin-engine air-superiority) but I doubt that will be acheivable for a very long time even if the nee DR is implimented

The only thing Russia has to offer is the Il-38 MPA, Let L-410, Il-78 Midas, Be-200 and tech transfer for things like Ratnik and some of their missile tech relating to improvements of range (since Denel is mainly focusing on improving the range of the Uhmkonto and A-darter in terms of the next development cycle).

Apart from that Russia has nothing that the West or Denel does not have a better version of.

To be completely honest the only thing that would make sense is some sort of tech transfer/patent rights for the Ratnik body armor system as it would slot neatly into the African warrior program. It would cut R& costs dramatically and is a highly capable system - all that is required is some fine tuning for African conditions and it would be ready to go.

The skill to improve the ranges of those missiles is still here.

Currently Denel only invests in tactical missiles.

If we wanted longer range ones a ram-jet would ve used. Remember the picture of the IR guided AAM with ram-jet engine?

Centrifude:
Though the decision was political, I still think this could work for us if we play our cards right. I just hope our Government and people will try juggling the West and East as well as India , because they are doing it brilliantly, they have a good relationship with both sides.

I won't lie it would be awesome to see Su-35s or Mig-35s in S.A colours and maybe we could also do some SuperHind style upgrades on them, mixing western and eastern tech.

This Is a great opportunity for us because we're no longer expect to take sides, like in the past.

It would be great to add Some Locally built Su-35s because Russia will allow that for the right price ofcourse.

Don't look at it as the end of the world.

The Russians brought the SU-35 to SA and held exercises with the SAAF in the 90s.

it would be a bad choice buying them.

iblawi:
Guy what EW capabilities are you taking about?
I never new your sensors on Cheetah were better than the 1s on SU 27. Even in this modern day SU27 will still face your Gripens.
Stop trying to fool us here, we are not kids.

You're a kid.

africaken:
i dont think this is the same air force

Peaceful times.

africaken:
angola is about to acquire 18 SU-30MKI

They SU-27s while we operated the Cheetah.

Sensors and EW capabilities always gave the SAAF the upper hand.

africaken:
this is the problem with south africans ,you keep comparing yourself with sub-sahara countries. dont you think one day you will be called to protect your fellow African from an external enemy e.g turkey,france,U.S,china,egypt e.t.c

Our foreign policy is tied to the continent.

No, if a country is attacked by a powerful country like China or the USA there's nothing we can do but look.

We protected UNITA and the country's interests in Angola meaning engaging with foreign powers at times, the performance of the soldiers was great.

gees9:
Less pilots for the Gripens means less Gripens in the air I assume?

Air defence isn't about jets only.

Even with our current pilot numbers, no sub Saharan African country threatens us.

worry about the sensors. like the delayed project chutney.

gees9:
Rapport, unfortunately mate, is usually accurate with its reporting around the SANDF. Darren Olivier from African Defense Review also confirmed the report is accurate and I believe they were first with the story around our troops in Sudan being threatened over al Bashir. Not being an expert I can't say how this in anyway threatens our air capability in SADC, but a few experts are of the opinion sending all of them to Russia is odd and unprecedented. Anyway I believe more tough news is ahead if our government insists on under funding the SANDF at 1% of GDP, its treasonous almost. In any case I hope there's more than 9 Hawk pilots to augment 2 squadron.

Threatens our air defence capability how?

Patchesagain:
Just shows a change in SAAF policy.

Hawks are being shifted from training to operational duties (hence planned move of a squadron to AFB Waterkloof) because they are cheaper.

If you lose half the Hawk fleet from your training program, that means someone else has to pick up the slack... so guess they chose Russia for lead-in fighter training. My guess is that the Russians are cheaper than the Brits and there are political considerations.

Same thing with the batch sent to Cuba... in all likelyhood to make up for the shortage of basic trainers that arose through agreeing to train those Arabs.

The platform incompatibility is a non-issue since if those 10 are destined from Gripen, learning to fly the Hawk is unnecessary. So they develop their jet skills and competancy in Russia and then come here to learn to fly the Grip... doctrinal issues on the other hand are a big problem.

It is a political decision from the ministry not the force.

Like the batch sent to Cuba they'll have to be retrained when the come home in accordance with SAAF doctrine and procedures.

The ones heading to Russia are Gripen pilots already. They have a lot of flying hours.

The Hawk squadron already have an operational wing.

The previous Thabo Mbeki government including the Mandela's shunned Russia and Cuba, alias which supported the ANC. This seems to be changing with the current one.

xwolverine:
26 ÷ 3 = 9
9 Gripen pilots?

You're mad!

africaken:
Air Force jet pilots going to Russia for further training

full article here http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41029&catid=111&Itemid=242

Another political move which will damage the SAAF and the career of those pilots in the force.

overhypedsteve:
lol you are joking right? I meant a mobile command centre could be built on a flat bed truck, or a battle field tent. It doesn't have to be up to standard as long as it is effective and being put to good use.

That's what a software does. It can be installed on a desktop.

overhypedsteve:
those ones are not close to the area of operation Na. I am talking about makeshift situation rooms( could be installed in one the FOB's in the NE) it could be installed on a flat bed as a mobile command. It could even just be a small tent close the field.

Software?

which can be installed on many desktops?

overhypedsteve:
Most of this things can be avoided if we have a mission situation room staffed with NA and airforce personnel. With access to direct comm and video feed to the men in the field. The video feed can be supplied by any of the small airforce tactical uav's. With this the men in the field do not really need to call in for air support before the top officials in the situation room see the need for one. In some advanced countries heads of states have been known to monitor the mission progress from such situation rooms.

Joint operations!

That's why the SANDF it's ops through the Joint Ops division.

Henry120:
The Hinds are operated by the Nigerian Air Force, this is the reason the Nigerian Army is trying to raise it's own Air wing. Army operations aren't always carried out with the Nigerian Air force.


Now, I do have a problem with excuses of "unavailability of air-support", it, like MRAPs, give troops a false sense of invincibility. Helicopters cannot always be available for all operations. This is a fact.

Before it was "we don't have equipment".

Doctrine and advice to tactical level commanders need to be seriously looked at.

* Anyway, it's easy for me to say, sitting on my couch.

Mission planners must get a huge kick on their backs!!!

africaken:
india has choosen to buy more T-90 rather than continue with Arjun tank project due to cost overrun.starting a indigenous tank project its not that easy e.g merkava tank

Merkava is a good MBT.

The Arjun was just a waste of resources.

Henry120:
Nigerian COIN

Why is the Nigerian army still not investing much in paras? Majority of the general officers come from armour, artillery etc formations?

Panzerfaust:
Apart from its ridiculous weight and intial engine problems, The issues were resolved in the MK-II variant..the MK-II has 93 upgrades from the previous one and performed well at recent trials. Call it crap if you want, Pakistan's Al-Zarrar is the bigger crap!

Arjun is crap!!! The only reason it still exists is "indigenous capability".

The Al-Zarrar is simply a upgrade package.

See!! Smear campaign between Indians and Pakistanis online. Why not compare it with the K2 black panther or the Leopard 2.

ViceAdmiral:
Zimbabwean Commandos https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma1.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma2.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma3.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma4.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma6.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma9.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma11.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma14.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma16.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma17.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma18.jpg https://img.bulawayo24.com/articles/Coma19.jpg

I still wonder why the Botswana SF are so paranoid.

Panzerfaust:
The Arjun is a GREAT tank..But a useless one. The best tank the Paks have to offer is the T-80UD, which India's T-90 Bhishma outclasses. On the other hand, the PLA's Type 99 MBT is nothing but a glorified T-72. The Arjun might seem like an overkill for now, but a step in the right direction..India's military doctrine has always factored in a simultaneous war with both Pakistan and China. Pakistan is NO MATCH for India, but China,....................

iblawi:
Try to get the point he is making. Read it again and digest it.

Typical trolls. You'll see a surge in their presence in this thread.

Online battle between Pakistanis and Indians. every site it is like they're hired by their governments

India's procurement system is a mess.

Panzerfaust:
I disagree...India's procurement methods are quite impressive, if you ask me. They have been smart enough compulsorily demand transfer of technology for most of their major equipment. The T-90s, are being produced in India, the Su-30MKIs, by HAL, and several upgrades on the BMP-2s are also locally upgraded. India's biggest military threat isn't Pakistan, as many would believe, but China. One knows that the Chineese and Russians are bedfellows, hence, its smart for the Indians to locally produce Russian equipment. Right now, India is building its own Tanks (Arjun) while importing French made Rafales..So you see, the ability of the Indians to juggle both the East and West is remarkable. Also, country with a massive Army like India cannot make the mistake of standardizing its equipment on a large scale..One MBT, One IFV, one ASF, One Interceptor, One Ground attack aircraft? That's Suicide!

You shouldn't have mentioned the Arjun rubbish and the T-90 together.


Also you shouldn't mention the HAL and the Rafale procurement.

India's procurement system is a mess.