₦airaland Forum

swtchicgurl: Wow! I've been away for too long....This is a very interesting thread!

@Alwaystrue and other tithe supporters, God bless your effort. I've read every single page until now.

In another thread, these questions were asked:



[b]
I'll try to answer briefly:

a) ok. paying tithe as an unbeliever is a waste of time.

b) who are levites? full-time workers in the house of God, whether pastor or gateman! "their inheritance is of the Lord" if then you don't bring what belongs to God to Him (tithe), how will the levites survive?!

c) at that time, wealth was measured based based on livestock, landed properties and family size. this day, it's basically money! we are not farmers! and yes, you can still tithe anything, money or materials!

d) then, how many times a year do you harvest as a farmer? now, how many times in a year do you recieve salary? pay your tithe as much time! if you are still a farmer, feel free to pay once a year sef... it all depends on when you have an "income"!

e) same as 'd' above

f) when people bring their tithes to the temple, them levites (full time church workers) take them into the storeshouses becos they have the access and authority to do that.

g) 'eating' one's tithe is solely by God's permission! there's a difference between 'you bringing me the money you owe me and i say, don't worry, you can have it' and 'you not bringing it at all'.

h and k) who is a 'poor'? are you poor? the poor will never sieze from the church. if you are 'poor', go ahead and don't pay your tithe! relate with God on the level of your faith! that poor widow gave her all (not just 10percent)!

i) the Lord is their inheritance (levites), also, the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. connect the dots.

j) when there's no income, how do you tithe. you can only tithe when there's income.

I pray God will open your eyes! PAY YOUR TITHE![/b]

Good try though but it's answering as Law demands ! From ur assertions,it shows that Lawfully we can still tithe but i am saying Christ want's to receive our tithe according to the grace HE has made available unto us ! He want's us to cheerfully and willingly bring our tithes to HIM ! Who are we to demand or want to know even what he does with our tithes and offerings ? Ours is to give it,the leaders in the churches are to receive it on HIS (Christ)behalf and HE (Christ)is to present it to God the father and the disbursement will be directed by them (GOD ) ! If we present it and the leaders fail to give it to HIM,(Christ)how is it my concern then ! He can inquire of what is HIS from the receivers who did so on HIS behalf and my divine ATM must hav been credited immediately i made the offer ! Anyone who wan't to know what Jesus did and is still doing as a priest in the order of Melchizedek,let him/her see Genesis 14:18-20 to see what Melchizedek did first ! For every High priest has gifts and sacrifices to offer ! Jesus as a High priest receives our gifts and presents it to HIS father not like the Levetical or Aronical priests or order but in the Melchizedekal order !

God help us

Mark Miwerds: Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

The above verse does say, "there he (Jesus) receiveth them".

What is the "them" that Jesus receives?
When was this written?

The book of Hebrews was written in 66 A.D.. Four years prior to Titus invading Jerusalem with his army and destroying the Temple, scattering the Levites who had been ministers of the Temple as the Mosaic/Levitic Law required.

At the time Hebrews was written, the tithes being paid were also according to the Mosaic/Levitic Law. That tithe was a tithe of crops, flocks and herds as the Mosaic/Levitic Law commanded it to be. The sons of Levi had a command to receive tithes of their brethren. (the remaining tribes of Israel) At the same time, the Lord Jesus Christ was receiving tithes.

What tithes was Jesus Christ receiving? Why, the tithes that were being given to the Levites... tithes of crops, flocks and herds. There was no tithe of silver or gold, no tithe of money in any shape or form.

History records that from the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., until 585 A.D., no tithes were collected of the people of God at all.

As pointed out, the tithes Jesus is said to have received in Hebrews 7:8 were agricultural in nature... not money. Agricultural tithes were still being received in 66 A.D..

Where is the verse that says we are to tithe money? Why is it so hard for Olaadegbu, Bidam, and others to produce Scripture that says we are to tithe money today?

Oh wait! I know the answer. It is because that "scripture" is only found in the dark recesses of man's vain imagination, and not at all in the Word of God.

I thank God that you have agreed from the above that Jesus is Melchizedek since you said the tithe he was said to have received in Hebrews 7:8 was of agricultural produce and not money !
Let us see from the very beginning especially the very first tithe Jesus collected ! This can be found in Genesis 14:10-20'' 18 ''And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High, brought Abram some bread and wine. Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing:
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,Creator of heaven and earth. And blessed be God Most High,who has defeated your enemies for you.”
Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered.'' Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of ALL THE GOODS FROM THE SPOILS OF WAR !
What do you think spoils of war means ? Just to help you a little,it is not compulsorily or most definitely farm produce or live stocks but Any profits extracted as the result of winning a war i.e houses,ships,gold,silver,bronze,petroleum products,CASH ETC. See Scripture below to show you clearly from the bible what spoils could mean:
Joshua 6:18-19 “Do not take any of the things set apart for destruction, or you yourselves will be completely destroyed, and you will bring trouble on the camp of Israel. Everything made from silver, gold, bronze, or iron is sacred to the Lord and must be brought into his treasury.” So Miwerds, dnt think Abraham gave Melchizedek only toro-toro/kpe-kpe-ye or pig and grass cutter or yam,cassava and ewe ! It is possible he did but not limited to that since the bible stated clearly that he gave a tenth of ALL THE SPOILS !
Where was Melchizedek before he was tithed to ? and was it during the harvest of farm produce that HE was tithed to ? and was it Abraham's FARM produce that was tithed to Melchizedek ?
See Genesis 28:20-22 ''Then Jacob made this vow: “If God will indeed be with me and protect me on this journey, and if he will provide me with food and clothing, and if I return safely to my father’s home, then the Lord will certainly be my God. And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me.” Jacob said he will present to God a tenth of everything HE gives to him ! And i ask you Midwerk,if God has has blessed Jacob or even me with pounds,dollars,dutch-mark and even naira CASH, landed property and other tangible goods, will it not still be a tenth of all these i will present to God ? So how then are you saying we should not give money as tithe to show appreciation to God if we so desire when HE has blessed us ! The two examples of the very first tithers gave a tithe of all as given to them by God !

God help us

Still for you Shachris if you read the opener !

Tithing Absolutely and Positively supported by the book of Hebrews in the New testament !

Hebrews 7:1-18
''This Melchizedek was king of the city of Salem and also a priest of God Most High. When Abraham was returning home after winning a great battle against the kings, Melchizedek met him and blessed him.Then Abraham took a tenth of all he had captured in battle and gave it to Melchizedek. The name Melchizedek means “king of justice,” and king of Salem means “king of peace.” There is no record of his father or mother or any of his ancestors—no beginning or end to his life. He remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God.
Consider then how great this Melchizedek was. Even Abraham, the great patriarch of Israel, recognized this by giving him a tenth of what he had taken in battle. Now the law of Moses required that the priests, who are descendants of Levi, must collect a tithe from the rest of the people of Israel, who are also descendants of Abraham. But Melchizedek, who was not a descendant of Levi, collected a tenth from Abraham. And Melchizedek placed a blessing upon Abraham, the one who had already received the promises of God. And without question, the person who has the power to give a blessing is greater than the one who is blessed.
The priests who collect tithes are men who die, so Melchizedek is greater than they are, because we are told that he lives on. In addition, we might even say that these Levites—the ones who collect the tithe—paid a tithe to Melchizedek when their ancestor Abraham paid a tithe to him. For although Levi wasn’t born yet, the seed from which he came was in Abraham’s body when Melchizedek collected the tithe from him.
So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, why did God need to establish a different priesthood, with a priest in the order of Melchizedek instead of the order of Levi and Aaron?
And if the priesthood is changed, the law must also be changed to permit it. For the priest we are talking about belongs to a different tribe, whose members have never served at the altar as priests.What I mean is, our Lord came from the tribe of Judah, and Moses never mentioned priests coming from that tribe.
This change has been made very clear since a different priest, who is like Melchizedek, has appeared. Jesus became a priest, not by meeting the physical requirement of belonging to the tribe of Levi, but by the power of a life that cannot be destroyed. And the psalmist pointed this out when he prophesied,“You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”
Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless. For the law never made anything perfect. But now we have confidence in a better hope, through which we draw near to God.''

I intentionally gave the whole of Hebrews 7 for us to see for ourselves what the writer of Hebrew is saying concerning Christ keeping in mind what Christophany means ! Remember,Melchizedek never appeared any where in the bible untill Genesis 14:18-20 and immediately after that HE went into thin air until Hebrew brought us to the proper understanding of who this BEING melchizedek truly is :
Melchizedek was referred to as ''KING OF JUSTICE''- I don't know any other person who is king of Justice other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was refered to as ''KING OF PEACE''- I don't know any other person who is king of Peace other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to be one without BEGINNING AND END-I don't know any other person who is without BEGINNING AND END other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to be one who is a ''PRIEST FOREVER'' -i don't know any other who is a priest forever other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to have no father or mother !- JESUS(no let Mary and Joseph deceive you o )
Melchizedek's greatness was recognized by Abraham the father of all with the promise !
Melchizedek' was not according to the law to receive tithe becos HE is neither from levetical or Aronic order yet HE received tithe. Remember Jesus lineage wasn't expected to be king untill the prophesy came and it happened !
Melchizedek blesses Abraham,one who has already received the promise of the blessing of God !
Pastors (priests i.e levetical or Aronic)will all die but Melchizedek lives forever !
Hebrew said Melchizedek resembles the son of God ! (You remember when King of Babylon said that the fourth man in the fire resembles the son of God)
Melchizedek is the King of Salem(Jerusalem) Who was refered to as the King of Jerusalem other than Jesus !
Melchizedek brought out bread and wine and blessed him. Who blessed wine and broke bread and shared to HIS disciples the night to HIS death ? JESUS !
The law which was only a shadow of what is to come has changed according to Hebrews 10:1 and what we do today as tithing was same as done by Abraham without the law ! Tithing never started with the law and can not end with the law. Abraham tithed from his heart to Jesus and not under compulsion becos there was no Law as at the time he tithed !
Jesus is our most high priest in the order of Melchizedek according to Hebrews 7. And if you want to know what Christ is doing for us today as a priest in the order of Melchizedek, go to Genesis 14:18-22 becos that was the only place Melchizedek was featured and we where told what he did ! Hebrews 5:5''For a man to hold the priesthood, he must be called of God as was Aaron—Christ was a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek—Jesus Christ is the Author of eternal salvation.'' We give our tithe today to Jesus just like Abraham did and he was blessed.For you to tap into the promises of Abraham as a christian haven accepted Christ,learn also to appreciate HIS goodness in ur life !
Abraham tithed not by rules,obligation or threat but by heart that trust the lord. If you love God,you don't need to be preached tithing to becos you know that all that you have belong to God! It is our trust and heart to believe God.Letting HIM know that our no 1 priority is the lord.
Hebrews 8:10 ''.....I will put my laws in their minds,and I will write them on their hearts.I will be their God,and they will be my people.'' It should be in the heart of men to tithe and not by the law of compulsion of any sort !

Let me conclude as i await to answer positive questions in relation to this subject or scripture as it were.

Tithe is not ours but God's
He writes it in our heart
He expects it from us
It is commissioned before the law
Commanded during the law
Commended during the time of Jesus !

Tithing which is appreciation still blesses both the church and the tither !

Remember,The letter(logos)killeth but the rhema (revelation)giveth life !

God bless us

SUN 84: Why is many so much conciouse of tithe,is dt a way to worship God,wt necessity does it ve in life of believe,

If i understand what you are trying to ask,then the answer should be we want to praise God in all,with all and for all HE has given to us ! To stop tithing will mean to stop saying Jesus i thank you !

God help us

shachris: I would give according to my richness in glory and blessing, as Jacob of old, and not get tied to a Mosaic covenant that my Savior Jesus abolished many centuries ago.

Why not say[b] i would tithe[/b] according to my riches in glory and blessing as Jacob of old tithed(Genesis 28:20-22) and not get tied to a mosaic covenant that my saviour Jesus abolished many centuries ago Jesus took us back to the very beginning regarding how we should tithe ! He does not want to us to be tied to the levetical patterns of tithing which many still hold or think today just like you shachris ! Jesus want's us to tithe just like Abraham and Jacob did !

God help us

shachris: Please remember that people tithing are doing so for selfish reason, so that God would bless THEM abundantly, and are never concerned with the propagation of the good news of Christ.

It means you do not understand what tithing is ! Before the Law,men tithed becos they have been blessed by God ! In the days of Law,Men tithed becos it was a Law, a command by God. After the Law,some continued to tithe by the Law,some others tithed as a principle until Hebrews brought us all back to the knowledge regarding how God expect's us to tithe !(out of Love,willingly and a heart thing for trusting & believing God) If we tithe to curry some blessings,we have not sin ! If we tithe becos we believe it's a command,we hav not sin as well ! And if We tithe Just to show appreciation to God for what HE has done for us,how have we sin therein ? How about my having the knowledge to tithe for the furtherance of the gospel,will i go to hell for doing that ? Christ want's our tithe as HE want's us to show love to the poor,widows and the less privileges generally !

God help us

shachris: Please can you show me a bible verse that justifies your claim that early CHRISTIANS, not people, paid tithe?

It's like you are new on this one ! Go and ask Christ embassy,candour,'pastor'kun,fr_evangel and Goshen 360 who searched all the scriptures to disprove a prove that Jesus collected tithe ! But i will take you also on this nevertheless and wait for them to join me on this one.All i will do is to bring to you my previous reply on this one so others can learn but not necessarily you !
SEE BELOW FOR UR DIGEST :

Have you heard of the word Theophany or Christophany ? If no,please see below meaning and scriptural backings :

''A Christophany is an appearance of the preincarnate Christ in the Old Testament, or after his ascension.-Web definition.
''A theophany is a manifestation of God in the Bible that is tangible to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period, often, but not always, in human form.
Some of the theophanies are found in these passages:

1. Genesis 12:7-9 – The Lord appeared to Abraham on his arrival in the land God had promised to him and his descendants.

2. Genesis 18:1-33 – One day, Abraham had some visitors: two angels and God Himself. He invited them to come to his home, and he and Sarah entertained them. - a Christophany, a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.

3. Genesis 32:22-30 – Jacob wrestled with what appeared to be a man, but was actually God (vv. 28-30). This may also have been a Christophany.-Christ

4. Exodus 3:2 - 4:17 – God appeared to Moses in the form of a burning bush, telling him exactly what He wanted him to do.-Theophany

5. Exodus 24:9-11 – God appeared to Moses with Aaron and his sons and the seventy elders.-Theophany

6. Deuteronomy 31:14-15 – God appeared to Moses and Joshua in the transfer of leadership to Joshua.

7. Job 38–42 – God answered Job out of the tempest and spoke at great length in answer to Job’s questions.-Theophany
8.Daniel 3:24-25 ''Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.''

Frequently, the term “glory of the Lord” reflects a theophany, as in Exodus 24:16-18; the “pillar of cloud” has a similar function in Exodus 33:9. A frequent introduction for theophanies may be seen in the words “the Lord came down,” as in Genesis 11:5; Exodus 34:5; Numbers 11:5; and 12:5.
Every theophany wherein God takes on human form foreshadows the incarnation, where God took the form of a man to live among us as Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23).

Having established the above facts,i think it is neccessary we proceed with Hebrews 7 that clearly shows how Christ received TITHE from Abraham and still doing so today !
But to discuss Hebrews,let us see Genesis 14:18-20
''And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High,brought Abram some bread and wine.Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing:“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,Creator of heaven and earth.And blessed be God Most High,who has defeated your enemies for you.”Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered.''

Who is Mechizedek ? We will know who this 'being' is when we get to Hebrews the new testament but keep in mind the meaning of Christophany!
Genesis 28:20-22 '' Then Jacob made this vow: “If God will indeed be with me and protect me on this journey, and if he will provide me with food and clothing,and if I return safely to my father’s home, then the Lord will certainly be my God.And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me.”
From the above two scriptures,it has been established that Abraham who is the father of Christians also whom we MUST receive his blessings through Christ Jesus-tithed and his son Jacob tithed as well before the law ! The Law came after the exodus form Egypt and Abraham had already tithed to 'Melchizedek' before this time(640yrs before the law)And his son Jacob tithed 445yrs before the law and this brings us to the conclusion that tithing never started with the Law and what makes you think it ended with the Law !
Melchizedek,king of Salem and Salem later became Jerusalem,HE brought out wine and bread and blessed Abraham !-Genesis 14:18-22.
Who is the king of Salem(Jerusalem)that brought out bread and wine THE NIGHT BEFORE his DEATH ? Please don't conclude yet untill we get to Hebrew still keeping in mind what Christophany means !
The Law no doubt also commanded tithing but that does not mean that tithing started with the law-Leveticus 27:30-32''A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord.Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord.'' Please note that we are not discussing tithing as unto the law but want to show you that the law also commanded it but only as a shadow of what is to come !Note that Law was never brought about so that we will be under it for eternity but to show us a picture of what will be in the new testament.See Hebrews 10:1a'' For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things,''Remember that the slaying or blood sacrifice was never a bad thing becos it is LAW after all a blood sacrifice also occurred in the new testament-Jesus shedding HIS blood for you and i.So the sacrifices of animals in the OT was indeed a shadow of how to do it better in the NT !

Now let us see what Christ HIMSELF is saying concerning tithing:
Mathew 23:23''“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.''. He supported tithing immediately by saying yes you should tithe but HE rebuked them for not doing other important things contained in the book !-justice, mercy, and faith !
We all know who Jesus is,if he was not in support of tithing,HE would had condemned it right from Mathew 23:23 as HE did with so many other laws like stoning of the adulterous,divorce,Sabbath,paying of taxes,washing of hands before meal and so many others !
The issue of tithing was not discussed extensively in the new testament and i believe that it was not an issue no wonder there were no cases or issues raised concerning it much,but Hebrews gave us insights of what the pre-Law tithing was and what tithing should be as supported by Christ HIMSELF who receives all tithes !

Tithing as absolutely and positively supported by the book of Hebrews in the New testament....

Reverting

God help us

shachris: Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant

Capital error !
Jesus collected tithe,HE commended tithing and HE NEVER in any of HIS teaching admonish us against tithing !
If HE collected it & commended,how then do you expect me to stop giving it !

God help us

shachris: please brother, educate us more on the difference.

Jesus receives the tithe and the church benefit's from it ! You can be one of the beneficiaries as a body of Christ if you desire !

God help us

shachris: I would rather give everything i have for the furtherance of the gospel than a meager 10%, because he owns all that i have. Serving God should not be a business arrangement whereby you agree with him to give him 10% of your income so he can give your your blessings.
Tell me, how were the early churches sustained without tithe? How was Paul able to do all his exploits, which i bet your pastors can never dream about, all without anybody tithing anything to him?

I think you are wrong bro ! People tithed,sowed seeds,gave gifts,made contribution for the furtherance of the gospel in Paul's days !
You said you would rather give all than give a meager 10 percent,but how then you still struggle with the 10 percent that was collected and is still received by Christ today ?

God help us

abakiki: I usually don't get involved in such thread but had a strong inclination to get involved in this one believing that one or two people would learn something from this.
I would take the issue of tithing from two angles;
First of all, am a faithful tither and do not need to be cajoled to pay my tithe. I believe we've all been at a point in our lives when we asked ourselves what was the necessity of tithing. Naturally, humans are selfish and do not want to release thier hard earned money. So I prayed and asked God to help me and this is what he told me.
Gen. 1v 29: Everything that has the ability to multiply has a seed in it for continuity. Every fruit has a seed in it, you eat the fruit and you sow the seed. Now I ask, does money have the ability to multiply? If your answer is yes, then there's a seed in it. The 10% is the seed while the 90% is the fruit. Eat the fruit (90%), but sow the seed (10%]. The more you eat your tithe, you are eating into your future. Now, this was a personal revelation I received from God and it's been working for me.
Secondly, Lev.18v24-26: The Levites (PRIESTS) where never given an inheritance among the children of isreal, instead, the tithes of all isreal where given to the Levites to inherit for the furtherance of God's work. They were meant to concentrate on service to God. Likewise, your tithe is meant for the furtherance of the gospel. For example, at the end of the month, you pay tax to the govt for the dev. of the nation. Likewise, you pay your tithe for the furtherance of the gospel. Let me ask, what do you think will happen of all Christians no longer pay tithes and bring their offerings? Can't remember the exact place in the Bible, but the Levites abandoned the work of God and went to make other sources of livelihood. My Pastor who is a qualified lawyer would probably dust his wig and go into full employment. The endpoint is that the churches will die slowly and that is the plot of the enemy..
With this, I rest my case.

Thank you my brother for ur write up. But i ask all who say i should no longer tithe. 'If Jesus collected tithe,commended it and NEVER at anytime asked us not to tithe any longer,how then should a mere man ask me not to tithe ?

God help us

chukwudi44: Too bad you quoted all this scriptures without anything in them to justify xtian tithing too bad!!

What do you know about tithing ?

God help us

Jessicanoble: Speaking in tongues is fake

Ur mountain is ur ignorance !

God help us

GooseBaba: You are right ... The biblical god had no business with Egypt. But God the creator that is unbiased has covenant with all mankind...

The biblical God is the God of all and treats us as HE pleases irrespective of what you think !HE knows what is best for us !

God help us

macof: we are still saying the same thing.

If Egypt was affected by the famine, Israel wud have been extinct before they even started

The Israeli nation wouldn't hav been extinct becos there was a covenant with God ! Extinction of the Israeli nation before now would had mean God lied ! But ofcourse 'WE' know God can not Lie irrespective of what you believe.

God help us

macof: Ok. You seem to have me interested in learning about your views of Jesus/yeshua. Pls tell me wat you believe.

Pls I'll appreciate if u avoid Bible passages. I don't take the Bible seriously

Only God can take people like you serious becos HE cares about ur soul and want's to save you !

God help us

991: religion is funny!! seriously, wonder how people fall for such a cheap brainwashing.

Everything to u guys is 'brainwashing' even when you DIE you no go believe becos you go say na brain washing !

God help us

CAPTIVATOR: & Dey Went Ahead nd Twist 1John 5:7,8 , By adding dere selfish words to it Coz dey wanna prove false Trinity.....THEY ARE CURSED ALREADY! (Revelation 22: 18,19)

MOST OF YOU HERE COMENT TO UR OWN DAMNATION ! SMH FOR YOU HAVE ALLOWED THE DEVIL TO USE YOU AS A JOKER ! BUT I PRAY HIS GRACE ABOUND VERY VERY MUCH TO MAKE YOU SEE REASONS THAT YOU MOST TIMES ERR SO YOU CAN ASK FOR FORGIVENESS AND BE FORGIVEN BEFORE YOUR DEATH OR THE COMING OF CHRIST !

GOD HELP US ALL

Sermwell: I tink its "touch not my annointed... And also"judge not..." Dis verses of d bible have often provided a shield 2 dose thiefing pastors hu extort d living day light out of their members! SMH 4 some gullible church members

MOST OF YOU HERE COMENT TO UR OWN DAMNATION ! SMH FOR YOU HAVE ALLOWED THE DEVIL TO USE YOU AS A JOKER ! BUT I PRAY HIS GRACE ABOUND VERY VERY MUCH TO MAKE YOU SEE REASONS THAT YOU MOST TIMES ERR SO YOU CAN ASK FOR FORGIVENESS AND BE FORGIVEN BEFORE YOUR DEATH OR THE COMING OF CHRIST !

GOD HELP US ALL

Nonso23: Speaking in tongues

MOST OF YOU HERE COMENT TO UR OWN DAMNATION ! SMH FOR YOU HAVE ALLOWED THE DEVIL TO USE YOU AS A JOKER ! BUT I PRAY HIS GRACE ABOUND VERY VERY MUCH TO MAKE YOU SEE REASONS THAT YOU MOST TIMES ERR SO YOU CAN ASK FOR FORGIVENESS AND BE FORGIVEN BEFORE YOUR DEATH OR THE COMING OF CHRIST !

GOD HELP US ALL

Bome01: "It is blessed to give than to receive" has been twisted by pastors for their own selfish gain! Tragic!

MOST OF YOU HERE COMENT TO UR OWN DAMNATION ! SMH FOR YOU HAVE ALLOWED THE DEVIL TO USE YOU AS A JOKER ! BUT I PRAY HIS GRACE ABOUND VERY VERY MUCH TO MAKE YOU SEE REASONS THAT YOU MOST TIMES ERR SO YOU CAN ASK FOR FORGIVENESS AND BE FORGIVEN BEFORE THE COMING OF CHRIST OR YOUR DEATH !

GOD HELP US ALL

I THINK I HAVE DONE ENOUGH JUSTICE TO THIS TOPIC AS THE SPIRIT LEADS. HE WHO HAVE EARS LET HIM HEAR. I AM ONLY A SERVANT OF GOD BEEN USED TO DISTRIBUTE THIS KNOWLEDGE TO PEOPLE WHO CARE TO LISTEN.
YOUR OPPOSING THE WORD OF GOD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. THIS IS NOT ABOUT CHURCH OR DOCTRINE AS I SEE SOME TAKE IT HERE.
IT IS THE WORD OF GOD. AND IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT IS SCRIPTURAL LET THOSE WHO DO GO BY IT.
TITHING DOES NOT TAKE ANY ONE TO HEAVEN AS BEIN A MEMBER OF ANY CHURCH WILL NOT TAKE ANY ONE TO HEAVEN.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL AS I SIGN OFF SO I CAN GO MAKE SOME CASH BY HIS GRACE TO AGAIN GO BACK AND GIVE HIM THANKS EVEN IN MY SACRIFICES OF PRAISE !

GOD HELP US ALL

honeric01: 1: Was tithe ever for showing appreciation to God? if yes, where can this be found "verse by verse, chapter by chapter?

2: The tithe of old was a necessity because the priests then were barred from working nor owning any property in the land, so they depended on the FRUITS/FOODS brought to the church by the other 11 tribes (TRUE or FALSE)?

3: Was tithe ever paid with money during the time of old either by Abram, The other 11 tribes or whoever in the old testament?

4: Why did Jesus or any of his disciples not pay tithe while alive in the flesh? if they did, any "precise" chapter and verse to buttress this claim?

Please go straight to the point, short, precise answers will be appreciated.

Thanks

THE CHALLENGE YOU AND OTHERS ALIKE HAVE IS THAT YOU STILL THINK TITHING IS 'LAW' AS IN MOSAIC !-THE LAW ADOPTED A DIFFERENT FORM OF TITHING OTHER THAN THE ONE JESUS MEANT FOR ALL JUST LIKE IT ADOPTED A DIFFERENT KIND OF 'MARRIAGE ACT' OTHER THAN THE ONE JESUS MEANT !

1: Was tithe ever for showing appreciation to God? if yes, where can this be found "verse by verse, chapter by chapter? It can be found in Genesis 14:18-20 and Genesis 28:12-15 and Genesis 28:20-22.
2: The tithe of old was a necessity because the priests then were barred from working nor owning any property in the land, so they depended on the FRUITS/FOODS brought to the church by the other 11 tribes (TRUE or FALSE)? HEAVY FALSE when you want to follow the Jesus(Melchizedekal order of tithing) kind of tithing that is still strange to most of you after all the explanation done by Paul in Hebrews ! But if you like to follow the abolished levetical order of tithing,then it's TRUE !
3: Was tithe ever paid with money during the time of old either by Abram, The other 11 tribes or whoever in the old testament? The bible expecially the Melchizedekal order of tithing allows us to tithe on anything we deem fit to show appreciation to God ! Abraham gave a tenth of all he got from war(spoils of war) There could be cash,ram,turkey,Gold,silver,bronze and so on. If you also doubt me,go check the meaning of spoils of war and go through ur bible to see for urself that the tenth(God's tithe) archan stole from that gold silver and bronze were part of it. ANd we saw Abraham vowed to give tithe of ALL THAT HE POSSESS ! This also goes to show that i can tithe of all my possession including,landed properties as a real estate investor and also of my goods in the market place including my cash since they are part of all i possess.
4: Why did Jesus or any of his disciples not pay tithe while alive in the flesh? if they did, any "[b]precise" chapter and verse to buttress this claim?[/b] Jesus admonished the scribes and pharisees to continue to teach and pay their tithes even as they give credence to Justice,mercy and faith !This HE did in the presence of HIS disciples in Mathew 23:23 ! Jesus HIMSELF received tithe in Genesis 14 as a christophany but yee all fail to comprehend hence the essence of Hebrews 7 and you are still doubting ! Jesus did not receive the levetical order of tithing becos HE isn't qualified to do so ,WHY ? Becos it is the perverse kind of tithing ! It was not the original plans set out by God concerning tithing ! It is not the grace kind of tithing as we see in Hebrews and even Gen 14 before the Law !

God help us

EMILO2STAY: Pls all u supporters of tithe should just shut up cuz none of u all are making a single sense.
i decided to study tithe for the first time in my life when i heard the pastor in my church shouting so confidently that no christian on earth can be succesful in life without paying tithe to the church. immediately i was struck in the heart to find out the truth for myself. I studied the bible and discoverd the simple truth of tithe, The tithe was eaten by those who received tithe and those who gave tithe, the poor, widow, motherless,fatherless received tithe and did not give tithe, But today pastors looked left and right they did not see any excuse for collecting tithe so they came up with the lie that tithe is for building the house of God, and no body is supposed to eat the tithe not even the pastor or the members of the church.
pls all the tithe supporters kindly show me where it is written in the bible that tithe is for building a brick and cement house u call church or to further the work of God.

E never reach for insult abeg !
Pray to God to show you !

God help us all

[quote author=Demain_man]Na the same thing i tell you just like Jesus said when he rebuked the Pharises. Tithe if you are a Pharises because it is your custom and tradition but do not neglect the weightier things like LOVE and JUSTICE. To we the Chhristians (follower of Jesus Christ), no where did the master tell us to TITHE as a show of appreciation, rather he adviced us to LOVE GOD and Love our neighbours!!

BE CHARITABLE, DO GOOD, LOVE GOD, LOOK AFTER THE WIDOWS and ORPHANS and the NEEDY and it shall be well with you!![/quote]It will be hard for you to LOVE God if can not decode that loving God is showing appreciation also to God !
BE CHARITABLE, DO GOOD, LOVE GOD, LOOK AFTER THE WIDOWS and ORPHANS and the NEEDY and it shall be well with you!! . Do you see fellowshiping with fellow believers as an admonition there? Do you see praying and fasting there ? is wholistic ! It's all encompassing ! You forget just one thing,it is,if you like do all the good works there are in this world,help all the needy people in the world,do charitable work like bill gate and charity herself,if you dnt love God,there is no salvation for you ! The next question you should be asking should be,what is loving God ?

God help us

Tayeni: @mko.....please don't read anybody's write up when you r doing this......I want you to Compare different versions of d bible when doing this......use a concordance if you hv to. Compare d book of Daniel where shedrach and his buddies were thrown into fire. Where king nebuchard'( a pagan king) said d fourth man lOoked "like" d "son of God". Which was a loose phrase dt could hv meant an angel or a celestial being. Also the word "like" takes away d certainty in d statement. And even if he said so with certainty,I won't take d word of a pagan king as if it were from God.
Also I want you to compare Mathew 7:3...........d same way. Notice d word "like" was used in both places. The expression " in d order of......." also means; in similitude(after d fashion of). Paul was ciomparing d priesthood of Jesus to dt of melchi......as it were. He never said Jesus was Melchi.

See below what Paul said before he started the story of Christ and Melchizedek :
There is much more we would like to say about this, but it is difficult to explain, especially since you are spiritually dull and don’t seem to listen. 12 You have been believers so long now that you ought to be teaching others. Instead, you need someone to teach you again the basic things about God’s word.You are like babies who need milk and cannot eat solid food.For someone who lives on milk is still an infant and doesn’t know how to do what is right. 14 Solid food is for those who are mature, who through training have the skill to recognize the difference between right and wrong.''
I used king James and you are accusing me of heresy becos king James said like a son of God and other translation even said that the fourth man in the fire was God ! Looking at it;son of God and God is same though.Now tell me tayeni,did i write the bible ? Why are you hitting me this hard ? Did i quote 'QUEEN ELIZABETH VERSION TO YOU' ? Was it not scripture i quoted ? If God can make donkey see the truth that men have refused to see,how come you are fighting with God for revealing to a pagan king that it was Christ who was the fourth man in the fire with the three hebrew Children ? The mad man at Gadara,when he saw Jesus did he not bow and identify that it was Jesus the messiah son of the most high God? Even the devil knows that there is Christ how much more a pagan ! God please give these my brothers understanding of your words. Concerning Jesus bein Melchizedek,what then do you want me to show you that i have not said here in past 3 days ? What do you think is the essence of the book of Hebrews ? When the writer used the statement;''JESUS IS THE HIGH PRIEST ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK 7 TIMES IN HEBREWS 5,6 AND 7 do you think it was for fun ? You are still asking and tell me that Paul never said Jesus was Melchizedek !
Go through the below scriptures having Hebrews 5:11-14 in mind :

Hebrews 5:6''And in another passage God said to him, "You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek."
Hebrews 5:10''And God designated him to be a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.''
Hebrews 6:20''where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.''
Hebrews 7:11''If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood--and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood--why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?''
Hebrews 7:15''This change has been made very clear since a different priest, who is like Melchizedek, has appeared.''
Hebrews 7:17 ''And the psalmist pointed this out when he prophesied, "You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek."
Hebrews 7:21 ''but there was an oath regarding Jesus. For God said to him, "The LORD has taken an oath and will not break his vow: 'You are a priest forever.'"

God help us

democrazy: God bless you too @ fr Evangel. Just to let you know that I also give my Tithe to God as an appreciation of kindless, blessing and mercy towards me.

Let's remember that the most important thing for us all is to make Heaven. Stay bless bro.

@Democrazy,you just blew my mind ! You should have given me compliment like you did to fr_evangel na ! We tithe same way !

God bless you and may we meet in heaven in Jesus name.... Amen

God bless us all

[quote author=Demain_man]@m.k.o2005, It all comes down to our level of understanding. Jesus said that whatsoever you do to the leaset of my brother, you do to me.

Only once did the Master mention tithe in the whole off the bible and it was when speaking about the customs of the pharises. He spoke about LOVE severally.

This tells me that tithe is not important in the eyes of the Master except of course you are a pharises, then continue tithing because it is your custom.

These are the things i want to get reward for, LOVE, Accepting Christ, Helping my neighbour whenever I can,

To appreciate God, I simply thank him for what he has done for me while begging him for more since Jesus said Seek and ye shall found, Ask for bread, your father (Jesus) will not give you stone!!

THANKSGIVING IS A WAY TO APPRECIATE GOD. NOT MONEY. I WILL SIMPLY USE MY MONEY TO HELP THE NEEDY AROUND ME Just as i except to be helped when i need help. BE CHARITABLE and it will be well with your soul. AMEN.[/quote]See below my reply to Condour :
''What do you think Christ is doing with your tithe ? You think he will put it in the sewage and get it flushed ? Or do you also think that becos you have tithed and then you can go to sleep without affecting also the lives of ur neighbors who are in need ? It's all encompassing mate ! It's just like saying becos i have prayed,i need not to fast. Or becos i have studied the bible i need not to fellowship with other believers ! No. You have to do all these without leaving the others undone !- When some people came to Jesus and said his mother,brothers and sisters are outside waiting to see him and he asked them who his brothers,sisters and mother are ? That it's only the people listening to HIS word at that very moment are his brothers,sisters and mothers,does that now mean Christ has no mother,brother and sister ? Please let the holy spirit guide you in these words and stop fighting Christ like Paul did thinking you are fighting for God !''
How many times did Christ speak concerning adultery and divorce in the bible ! If He christ spoke just once positively or negatively about a thing,does it not go to tell you that HE has maintained HIS stance concerning that thing ! You said he spoke to the pharisees concerning tithing and i asked you why didn't HE support them on the issue of Adultery which is equally the Law ? Why did HE not support them concerning divorce and certificate of divorce which is equally law? Why did He support the 'Tax Law' ? He equally paid the temple tax that HE was not suppose to pay and made it very clear that HE isn't suppose to pay it ! Why did he go against the stoning of the adulterous women inspite of the fact that it was lawful to stone ? Why did He go against the Laws of washing of hand before eating ? Why did He support his disciples when they exempted themselves from the Lawful fasting? Now,concerning Mathew 23:23,was HE scared to tell the pharisees and scribes that they were not suppose to continue tithing that HE openly and clearly stated and admonished them to CONTINUE TO TITHE and yet HE could condemn them for other ones they did mentioned above ? Christ is not scared of anyone either in the pre-Law days,Law era or post Law period !
Mathew 23:23''“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens,but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.'' Jesus no dey fear anyman no wonder he corrected them to do JUSTICE,HAVE MERCY AND BE FAITHFUL' From the scripture above,Justice,Mercy and faithfulness including tithing were all inclusive in the Law but taken from the PRE -Law DAYS that need not to be changed but be carried out properly. And when Jesus saw that they only did justice to tithing leaving out Justice,Mercy and Faithfulness even as they present their tithe,Jesus warned them to do everything very well and never condemned any of the four !
I don tire with una abeg. After all i no dey collect tithe. Make una do as una mind tell una !


God help us

Candour: Tithe to where?

If to Christ, then could following this scripture mean obedience to tithing to Christ?

Matt 25:40
'And the King shall answer and say unto them, verily i say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me'

If i adopt this statement from Christ, will i be adjudged to have complied?

I can give you examples of the least of the brethren Christ was talking about

they are the poor, sick, naked, prisoners, destitutes etc

What do you think Christ is doing with your tithe ? You think he will put it in the sewage and get it flushed ? Or do you also think that becos you have tithed and then you can go to sleep without affecting also the lives of ur neighbors who are in need ? It's all encompassing mate ! It's just like saying becos i have prayed,i need not to fast. Or becos i have studied the bible i need not to fellowship with other believers ! No. You have to do all these without leaving the others undone !- When some people came to Jesus and said his mother,brothers and sisters are outside waiting to see him and he asked them who his brothers,sisters and mother are ? That it's only the people listening to HIS word at that very moment are his brothers,sisters and mothers,does that now mean Christ has no mother,brother and sister ? Please let the holy spirit guide you in these words and stop fighting Christ like Paul did thinking you are fighting for God !

God help us

[quote author=Demain_man]@m.k.o2005, Thanks for taking time to answer my questions. really appreciated that. I wish the tithe collectors can preach their tithe like you just described it which seems like freewill donations to me. Why do they in most cases go on and on and on about something that as you described it is not compulsory?

Why do some pastors of the pentecostal churches use phrases such 'tithe, else your life will be tight'? I am sure you have heard that phrase before.

Why can't they just tell people about this 'kingdom principle' and then concentrate on the weightier things like LOVE which encompasses all other commandments and which guarrantees eternal life just as Jesus himself told us?

You will agree with me that the reason the pentecostal churches pastors enforce tithe is so that they can continue to enjoy other peoples sweat (money) here on earth.

Remove tithe from the equation, a lot of pastors will pack up!

As for me I want to make heaven. Whether i am a messenger or boy boy for heaven it does not matter. I don't need the tithe reward! I need reward for accepting Jesus, for been a good Christian, for loving my neighbour as myself. [b]I DON'T NEED the TITHE reward at all!!!
[/b][/quote]Thanks man Demain,you are write when you say some pastors preach tithe for their belly just as some preach giving of any kind,appreciation of man of God and we hear people even sell prayers,sell air time for testimonies and announcement and so on and so forth. It's mere pervertion of the original plans of God. The errors of men concerning the things of God does not make those things un-true. That is why we need men who will teach people the write and godly way to do things in our various churches today.If you dnt want to be rewarded for appreciating God as in telling HIM thank you for what HE is doing OR has done in ur life,it's ur choice and no man can do anything about it but God HIMSELF WHO OWNS THIS APPRECIATION.It's Not every one that want's to be rewarded on earth or in heaven but my bible tells me that 'he that wineth a soul is wise' If i win souls for God and am declared to be wise by God,it means am foolish if i dnt win souls for Christ !
Men who are truly called by God can not pack up if you take away tithe ! Tithing according to the levetical order does not establish any man,rather it stalls the growth of men including the church becos they give grudgingly ! They give un-willingly and no man can grow by grudgingly giving ! Churches should know that no matter the kind of giving you give,be it tithe,offering,vows,pledge,helping the needy and widows etc are all to God and not man ! But men can take God's gifts for themselves. But it has been recorded for us by God in our divine automated teller machine irrespective of what the 'men of God' do with God's gifts !
I wish also those who collect this tithes for Jesus should let the people know how to present these gifts for not all gifts is acceptable unto the lord and they should actually present the acceptable gifts to the owner(Jesus)and not corner it !

God bless us all

[quote author=fr_evangel]I don't think mko2005 actually read my posts or that of any other poster.
Seems like you are on a mission to preach falsehood.
I used to feel that most tithe preachers are simply ignorant (because I was when I pr ached tithe) but your scheming tactics has made me believe some preachers know the truth but are deliberately preaching a lie for the sake of money and because of the greed and "yahoo yahoo" attitude of folks like Olivertwist.

Candour, God bless you for your post about helping the needy brethren. God Bless you real good. That encouragement deserve a new thread.
Even when I was in a ministry where they almost made it wrong to help the needy brethren, stigmatizing the needy brethren as faithless, I some how, had a strong passion to help some personally. Some of them today have become pastors and church leaders who are in turn helping others, because that's what they learnt. This is God's plan for the church. Acts of the Apostles and Paul's letters to the churches shows this.
Jesus himself showed it severally and especially in Matthew 25;
The ONLY emphasized giving in the New Testament is sharing with the needy, the brethren in need, strangers, our family and as many as God will grant us the opportunity to help.



God bless you Candour, Pastor Kun, Christemmbassey, democrazy and all who got to their Bible to learn from God's word.
How can I forget to add Goshen360. Thanks a lot.
ps: @christemmbassey, your name made me feel you worship there oh, lol
I[/quote]Forming alliance with people who supported ur opinion against the word of God can not change the scriptures. I gave you all scriptures and not my word yet it was difficult for you to debunk and instead you went ahead to judge olivertwist who only sighted an instance of how he increased his appreciation to God and how God has been faithful to him over and over and again. You dnt know how inspired i am as a result of the testimonies of oliver twist becos i'm yet to get to that level and i pray to tap into what God is doing in his life. My prayer today is that i get to the level of oliver twist in terms of tithing in the name of Jesus amen... You prayed for God's blessings ON CONDOUR for his quote concerning helping the needy and criticized Olivertwist who equally helped the needy and tithed to Jesus for the furtherance of the gospel that also includes,helping the needy,orphans,destitutes and less privileges alongside feeding of the poor and paying of church building bills.Are you not bin hypocritical ? But thank God for HIS grace on all of us.
Now to you fr_evengel,my final question to you is,since you earlier said that you are a pastor of a '20,000 or 100 congregation',let's say 100 congregation and i worship in the church where you pastor.If it's laid in my heart either by God or men (obviously not you my pastor becos you dnt believe in tithing) to bring a tenth of my monthly 1.2 million naira salary regularly to support ur ministry and you know where i work(a multinational company) Will you ask me to go away with the money becos you do not believe in tithing ? Even if you do but i insist that i'm lead to do so on monthly basis ny God,what will you do ? Please tell me the truth and be honest about this becos 'all liars will go to hell'

God help us all

Goshen360: My own fun ...coming soon!!! It will chase all these tithe teachers and put them on the run away by exposition...watch out!!!

It's good to make fun of something you do not know how to debunk using the scriptures ! Even atheists make fun of christians and God himself becos they know we are saying the truth !

God bless us