₦airaland Forum

Candour: Spoils of war means spoils of war. It could have been anything so you're free to squeeze anything into it. Abraham gave him from spoils of war NOT FROM HIS OWN FARM OR HERD OF FLOCK. Abraham met him when returning from war so don't lie that he gave of his farm or animals except you can prove that Abraham took animals and farm produce to the war front.

For Mosaic law of turning, it was strictly animals and edibles from the farm. Lev 27:30-33 was very unambiguous about that. If you don't know that, then you need to start your learning afresh.

In fact, I'm willing to indulge you. Assume i accept your theory that I should tithe the Abraham way and give Jesus my tithe, how do I go about it?

How do you go about what ? We are not in the levetical or Aronical days. Just tithe ! God has put it in your heart so do it ! The melchizedekal order of tithing which Christ HIMSELF received isn't under compulsion.It's a heart thing.It was not given becos of the Law says so.It was not given to curry blessings.It was given directly to Christ. There is nothing wrong to give and expected something in return just like people who fast to curry God's favour or blessings or even protection some times but in the days of Grace,God will still be faithful to HIS words. Tithe is given to show appreciation and not a kalo-kalo kind of activity !

God bless us

[quote author=Demain_man]Will TITHING give me eternal life?
What is the important of TITHING apart from as you put it blessing here on earth which is not exclusive to tithers in any case
Will my not TITHING mean I go to HELL?
Will GOD be angry with me for not TITHING? And if he will be what will be my punishment

Pls don't tell me it is kingdom principle. And if you do what other kingdom principles are there and the punishment for non adherance to those principles.

Can the TITHE Apostles help me pls?[/quote]Will TITHING give me eternal life? -Tithing does not give eternal life as offering of any kind or going to church can not give you eternal life! What guarantees eternal life is accepting Jesus as ur Lord and personal savior.
What is the important of TITHING apart from as you put it blessing here on earth which is not exclusive to tithers in any case?- The importance of tithing is not to receive blessings here on earth BUT ONE OF THE NUMEROUS CHANNELS TO BE APPRECIATIVE TO GOD FOR ALL HE HAS DONE FOR YOU AND TO SUPPORT THE FURTHERANCE OF THE GOSPEL !
Will my not TITHING mean I go to HELL? IF you don't pray,praise or worship God does not mean you will not go to heaven. What takes one to heaven is the grace of the Almighty God.The grace enables one even to accept Christ for him to be saved.If you tithe 100 percent and continue to live in sin,if the grace does not speak for you,you are hell bound already. Tithing does not save any one but it sure shows that we love God !
Will GOD be angry with me for not TITHING? And if he will be what will be my punishment? As it's a free will to accept Christ so is it a free will to tithe.But God isn't happy as people live in sin and refuse to believe in HIS son Jesus. God has put HIS evidence of existence in the hearts of Men and has used HIS creation to also indict men(atheists)so there will be no excuse for them on the day of Judgement. This is exactly what God has done for us all regarding tithing but HE will will not punish any man for not tithing but SURE there is a reward as there is a reward for soul winners !Remember he said he that winneth a soul is wise but that does not mean those who never won souls will not make it into heaven but there is reward even in heaven for those who did the extras!
Pls don't tell me it is kingdom principle. And if you do what other kingdom principles are there and the punishment for non adherance to those principles.- It's a kingdom principle in the sense that it will never deter you from making it into heaven for christ has taken care of salvation but we all need to activate our blessing if not they will lie fallow till Jesus comes. Lazarus the poor man with sores all over his body can tell you better. He failed to activate some of these principle but he made it into heaven after all ! God's desire for us isn't to live our lives like Lazarus,wretched,battered,stinking with sore infested body and beggarly ! That wasn't what Christ died for !
The choice is yours after all why we are happy is becos we are heavenly bound !

God bless you

God help us

Candour: No amount of colour will make Tithe a new testament doctrine.

Abraham gave Melchizedek tithe from war spoils. No single record that he tithed of his own farms or animals. why do you overlook that fact?

So in your thinking Melchizedek should have been waiting by the city gate every harvest period to collect tithes? He's not hungry. Abraham gave him tithes from war spoils as a mark of honour.

Show me where Abraham tithed from his farms, animals,gold or slaves and i'll agree with you

What do you think spoils of war means ? Just to help you a little,it is not compulsorily or most definitely farm produce or live stocks but Any profits extracted as the result of winning a war i.e houses,ships,gold,silver,bronze,petrleum products,CASH ETC. See Scripture below to show you clearly from the bible what spoils could mean:
Joshua 6:18-19 “Do not take any of the things set apart for destruction, or you yourselves will be completely destroyed, and you will bring trouble on the camp of Israel. 19 Everything made from [b]silver, gold, bronze, or iron [/b]is sacred to the Lord and must be brought into his treasury.” So dnt think Abraham gave Melchizedek only toro-toro/kpe-kpe-ye or pig and grass cutter It is possible he did but not limited to that since the bible stated clearly that he gave a tenth of ALL THE SPOILS !
If you know who Melchizedek is,you will not say HE will go and stand at the city gate during harvest period to collect tithe ! This brings us to another point and questions to you; 'Were was Melchizedek before he was tithed to ? and was it during the harvest of farm produce that HE was tithed to ? and was it Abraham's FARM produce or farm produce generally that was tithed to Abraham ? Guy study your bible with understanding so you can help urself and help others who depend on you for positive knowledge !

Can you show me any where in the bible that categorically tells us not to tithe ? Dnt tell me the Law this the Law that becos tithing never started with The LAW

God bless us and goo nite

Pastor Kun: @MKO
Since you tithe based on Abraham's one off voluntary tithe to Melchizedek, then you would have to agree that it's not mandatory or required for christians and a christian may decide of his own free volution if, when and how he wants to do his tithe without necessarily following the modern church formula of monetary tithing from all income.

hmm Kun ! It seems like you are coming out now ! You still call Abraham's tithing one off ! As if Jesus is one off ! And i still put it to you that if you show me any other time Melchizedek was talked about in the bible,whether 10,20 or 100 other times,then i will show you 10,20 or 100 times Abraham tithed to Melchizedek !
Concerning mandatory tithing,there is this brother who in my church when ever he is given the mic to ask if there is any one who wan'ts to tithe he will start mentioning Mal 3:9 of how if you dnt give ur tithe you rob God and and how God said one is cursed ! When ever i'm in church with my wife who is a catholic and this guy is handed the mic over to,all i do immediately is to ask my wife not to mind him becos he doesn't understand tithing as admonished before the Law and after the Law which is new testament !And i try to tell people around to dis-regard the young man becos i consider him as one who is ignorant of the tithing principle. But i've been lead to fix a meeting with him just to explain that you dnt admonish people by threatening them. Just teach them how to be appreciative to God if they are not and what Jesus teaches about tithing ! So am of the opinion that no one should be forced to give God what is HIS. It's just like giving our life to Jesus,it belongs to HIM but HE expects us to give it to HIM willingly ! In the days of Law,God can force us but in the days of grace,it is in the heart !
God promised to write the laws in the heart of the people as a prophesy of what is to come in the book of Jeremiah and in Hebrews 8:10, the writer reminded us of this once again'' This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord.I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts.I will be their God,and they will be my people.'' This was a prophesy in the days of the Law that is evident today in our lives and that is why we need not be told to tithe becos it should be in our hearts to do so ! But trust,people are still reminded to pray,praise and worship God inspite of these promises and what Christ did for us on the cross just as we have people been reminded to tithe today !
The church has no modern day formula of tithing,it's just that some of them think we are still under the levetical order of tithing just like you 'pastor'kun ! We have long returned to the Melchizedikal order of tithing since the days of the early church as shown to us in the book of Hebrews but trust,the spiritually dull still held on to the old testament Law of tithing till date !

God help us

Candour: You're wrong. Jesus is the priest forever after the order of Melchizedek and the record shows a one time tithe to him. Jacob's tithe is even less supportive of your position because he gave God a condition for paying the tithe. If it was a normal thing for him, why would he attach a condition? wouldn't he have said 'God, if you do this, i'll give 1000 rams in addition to my regular tithe?' but instead he used his vow to bargain with God. Is that how you do your own tithing? do you give a condition before dropping your tithe?

You Lie big time brother. Tithing is not new testamental. If it was, it would have been mentioned and asked even once like holy communion.

You obviously DO NOT know what tithing is all about. Its more than the 10% you bandy about every month

You can say the scripture lies if you like ! But i ask you,how many times did you see Melchizedek after the first tithe he collected tithe from Abraham ? Show me another time he appeared in the bible then i will show you another time he collected tithe ! You have not even bothered to ask urself how come Melchizedek appeared just once and one of the first things HE did was to collect tithe and you are here saying tithe should be thrown away ! The only three things Melchizedek did was to bring out bread and wine,blessed Abraham and collected tithe !
Jacob has already been blessed by God but bein man that he was,he decided to enter a covenant with God becos HE knows God does not break covenants ! See below scripture to show you clearly that Jacob has already been blessed by God before he vowed just to seal it with God :
Genesis 28:12-15''He had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. There above it stood the Lord, and he said: “I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.”
See also below scripture to show you that it was after the above blessings that he vowed to tithe :
Genesis 28:20-22 ''Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear so that I return safely to my father’s household, then the Lord[d] will be my God 22 and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God’s house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth.” He was already blessed before the vow but as human that he is,who knows God don't break covenant,he decided to enter the covenant ! Trust God to be faithful with HIS words not to talk of covenant ! I can on my own count it as an error on the part of Jacob for not believing on the words of blessings of BABA,but trust he is human and what do you expect !
When Hebrews said Jesus is the priest according to the order of Melchizedek and if you want to understand what that means just go check out what Melchizedek did in Genesis 14 and you will under stand what Jesus did and is still doing in the body of Christ today !

I reiterate according to the word of God. TITHING IS ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NEW TESTAMENT !

GOD HELP US

Candour: Read my post again, i said you LIED THAT CHRIST COLLECTED TITHE.

If you do give to those less privileged as you wrote, pls accept an e-hug from me and i urge you to continue. God doesn't need your money but your poor neighbors do. If you decide to give in your church, stop looking at a tithe threshold of 10%. Freely you have received, freely give. Tithing is not of freewill, its of the law. Our giving today can never be CALLED tithe. God knows his tithe. he defined it in Lev 27:30-33.

Abraham didn't give to Melchizedek to curry blessings. God had already pronounced him blessed so that use of his example plus twisting of Mal 3:8-12 to get the version practiced in churches today is a perversion. Abraham's tithe was a one off, just like Jacob's was a vow. If God did this, he'll do that. Is that the way you do it in your church?

You tithe because you're blessed, what about your other church members? do they have the same understanding? does your pastor not mention devourer and windows of heaven to get them to comply?

The tithe you preach is a perverted version of the one instituted in the laws of Moses. You lie when you say its Abraham's example you follow because if it were, you'll pay tithe only once in your lifetime and that is if you went to war. You're supposed to be a Christian and Christians are not justified by following Mosaic law.

hear my last words to you from Paul

Gal 3:1-3
'O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?2.This only would i learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?3.Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

You talked about paying of tithe once ! -How many times did you see Melchizedek in the bible before he was later re-introduced and explained to us in Hebrew ? He is a priest FOREVER (Jesus) ! If he appeared again in the OT,Abraham would have re-tithed again and again and again and again ! But They never stopped tithing becos we saw Jacob gave same tithe,meaning he was probably taught to do so by grand pa !
You said ''you tithe because you're blessed, what about your other church members? do they have the same understanding? Why do you think i'm here trying to help you [/b]see reasons that you are not suppose to tithe becos you are looking for blessing though some do it may be out of ignorance or it could as well be that they want to do 'what Jacob did' who said to God,''if you bless me then i will bring my tithe before you !'' Not knowing that he has already been blessed and expected to just appreciate God! It's not under compulsion neither is it a way to curry God's blessings !
You said''[b]Tithing is not of freewill, its of the law. Our giving today can never be CALLED tithe. God knows his tithe. he defined it in Lev 27:30-33.
From the highlighted of urs above,it still shows you do NOT UNDERSTAND what tithing is and that is why you keep quoting all these ur leveticus of levetical order ! I have said it times without number that tithing is NOT LAW though it was commanded by the Law and that churches even YOU(candour) still thinks that it is of Law when it never even began with the Law ! It started with Jesus CHRIST and Jesus COMMENDED IT in the new testament and even Hebrews re-explained it severally in the book of Hebrews yet you are here fighting me as if i wrote the bible
I repeat,tithing did not begin with the Law and never ended with the Law but the erroneous levetical order of tithing was indirectly abolished as a result of what grace has done for us ! Have you seen me quoting the Law in defense for my tithing believe ? I quoted Mal 3:10-11 just once here to show people that even in the days of Law God still blesses people who tithe and the verse 9 of same book was mentioned by God to show the people of the Law that God owns the tithe originally !
You will always get it wrong if you think the Law brought about tithing ! It's pre Law becos Abraham did it,Jacob did it to show their love and appreciation to God and not minding what was presented as tithe as some of you think it's only of 'agricultural produce' when we have seen before the Law that men even tithed 'spoils of war' ! May be when you go war na yam and corn you dey carry come back I bet you say some gold and silver go join Even Jacob vowed to tithe of 'ALL HE POSSESS ' Wonderful !
You said ''The tithe you preach is a perverted version of the one instituted in the laws of Moses.'' I don't preach same tithe as preached by Moses but as preached by Jesus HIMSELF ! Melxchizedek(Jesus) accepted it, Jesus commanded it and Hebrews explained it for the spiritually dull to get it clearer !
Tithing is absolutely positively new testament !

God help us

olivertwist: Who is greedy between us. Just 3days ago, by God's grace, I gave N25,000 as my Tithe and offering. Just few years back, my Tithe was just in hundreds and you say I should not Give 10% back to God who bless me with the money. Is it your money? . Who are you?

My friend, God said put me to test with your Tithe? The reason why Tithe is not working for you is because you either gave it grudgingly with complaint not with thanksgiving like our father Abraham did. Or perharps, you didn't believe in it?

No wonder you guys keep hiding under free-will. I'm I surprised? Do you even know why Paul asked the people of Corinthians to give willingly? He didn't have to say anything to the people of Macedonians b4 they gave happily?

Correct guy ! May God continue to bless you ! They like to quote 2 corithians 9:7 concerning how we are to give willingly yet they don't know that is how they are suppose to tithe even if that scripture is not related to tithing but they quote it every now and then ! Try quote the verse 6 that says''He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully''! If you are to sow sparingly and bountifully,you will not only tithe to one church or just 10 percent but 90 percent to show God how awesome HE is and how appreciative you are!Fortunately and unfortunately,that scripture isn't talking about tithing but all the tithe haters will always quote it but even if they want us to relate it to tithing,then they are defaulting by not willingly taking their tithes to Jesus but waiting for one priest or pastor to coerce them so they can nail him by shouting -FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD !

GOD HELP US

Candour: And i'll remember to ask God to save you from greed because you have turned God to a money doubler or a lottery scheme......bring 10% get 100% returns

Somebody just LIED that Christ collected tithes and you're telling him weldone? you better pray for him very well

peace

Funny enough am not a pastor and no intention to be one tomorrow ! The church i worship don't have these knowledge i share with you guys today! But i will open their eyes when ever i'm opportuned. See you talking about lotery and God, When God blessed Abraham and he tithed was there any form exchange by coercion there ? When Jacob offered to tithe if God will bless him was he not blessed before and after all ? Even if we want to consider the Law,was it not God who offered to Bless tithers ? I don't tithe becos i want to be blessed but i tithe becos i love God and appreciate HIS awesomeness in my Life. I tithe becos i put God first in my Life. I tithe becos i want God's work to continue. I tithe becos i care to see the kingdom message to be taken to all over the world !
Will tithing stop me from doing more within and outside the vine yard of God ? NO- I still give to destitute,less privilege,the needy,widows, orphans,pay people's school fees who are not privilege to have a parental sponsor,not to sound my trumpet,as i put up this here there is some one (a muslim)who just called to asking me to sponsor his trip to the village to see his sick mum and i will still do for him. I still give my offering, render other forms of humanitarian services but will all these including tithing take me to heaven ? NO ! Salvation is found solely in our Lord Jesus Christ . You can not have Jesus and not do good works both in church and out of Church. But good works can't take you to heaven ! You can not claim that you have Christ in you,love God and hit hard on tithing this way ! Well,i can understand that ignorance sometimes can harm people ! What you should be talking concerning tithing should hav been pastors who are dubious with God's tithe and you present them to God if you know any and God will take charge becos it's actually his tithe even before we present it !

You said i lied concerning A FACT that Abraham tithed to MELCHIZEDEK ? If you say it was a lie then you have not opened ur bible before ! Concerning who Melchizedek was and is,i have explained and explained and re-explained to you folks yet you form ignorance.I don't have any thing to say to you again other than the below words from the book of Hebrews :
Hebrews 5:11-15''There is much more we would like to say about this, but it is difficult to explain, especially since you are spiritually dull and don’t seem to listen. You have been believers so long now that you ought to be teaching others. Instead, you need someone to teach you again the basic things about God’s word. You are like babies who need milk and cannot eat solid food. For someone who lives on milk is still an infant and doesn’t know how to do what is right.Solid food is for those who are mature, who through training have the skill to recognize the difference between right and wrong.''

God help us all

Goshen360: Sabbath is part of the 10 commandmets. Do you worship from Sun set Friday to Sun set Saturday and don't work at all nor lift your fingers?

The church do not commit adultery because it was said to Moses but because we were also taught not to do so. One thing with the law, take one, take all. If you break the sabbath, under the law, you are guilty as also commiting adultery.

Take away, the sabbath you have 9 commandments left as if it is only 9 sins that exist in the world.

Jesus no take away the sabath day worship o. HIM only show us how the sabath day worship be like in the current dispensation ! Him let us know say e get many many good things wey you fit do on sabath day other than just dey there day pray sing and dance like the Law bin dey do and HIM come show us say every day na sabath and any day we we even choose no matter in this dispensation of Grace !

This one na tory for next time !

God help us

Goshen360: It is not new. It is as someone who have not done study by himself but would rather copy and believe instead of study and believe. Imagine someone that wants to teach others but had not studied by himself but had gone to copy. Well, I give him credit, at least he was sincere to come out open unlike some you ask them simple and straight forward question, they start to dodge...you know those I'm talking about naw.

I thank God una don turn the matter to Joke becos una don see am clearly say tithing na Jesus say make we tithe and na him get the tithe !
If pastors like make them wack Jesus tithe e no concern me if God dey as all of us sure believes,HIM go ask them for HIM tithe,if no be for this world,na for yonder

God help us

christemmbassey: tithe being part of d law of Moses was abolished withd law n levitical priesthood, both were replaced by d priesthood of Jesus poverned by 'the law of the spirit of life(rm8:1-4) jm1:25) Hew cap 7, 8,9, 10. If u pay tithe ur like Esau, who rejected his birthright and went for a plate of garri n soup, to u Christ has nt died, u r still in ur sins. Pls stop copying trash only meant to justify sm gods of men greed. May God give u undastanding.

Christ collected tithe and he asked us to tithe so what then are you saying ?
The Law never abolished tithe any where in the bible !
The Law distorted the original plans of God for tithing by introducing the levetical order of tithing just like it destroyed the marriage institution until Christ came and showed us the original plans of God concerning marriage ! Chrsit took us to the very begining concerning tithing and Marriage and so many others that you are aware of even more than myself ! Study asking the holy spirit to help you. Your problem is that you hate people and go to the scriptures to look for words you can use to back up ur hatred ! But i tell you,hating people will most of all help u to hate ur self !
Little wonder men of God for reason i can't tell for now still hold on to the Law pattern of tithing where we have it all over in the new testament that we should tithe !

God help us

Tayeni: it boggles the mind how far they would go to twist d scriptures, bend it, cut and join it out of context and arrive at d most ridiculous meaning then slap d label of "rhema" on it while whipping up fear and selfishness in pple to help force it down their throats. They only give out of compulsion and fear and selfishness. Giving should b selfless. But they give for d sole purpose of receiving, for fear of d "devourer". Imagine someone saying Jesus collected tithe as melchi.........how someone will identify melchi as Jesus is a "rhema" dt sounds like d most crafted "conspiracy theory" of this century

Thank God am Back on this tread ! I said what you do not know is above you ! You might say what ever you like but spiritual people will continue to excel becos they are the true sons of God.
Now to throw the final light on the person of Melchizedek,i will leave with you guys the explanation as given by Herbert W.below :
The Mystery of Melchizedek !


FEW MYSTERIES of the Bible have attracted more interest than the mystery of the identity of Melchizedek. Who is he?

You will read in Hebrews 6:19-20 that Jesus Christ, after His resurrection, is High Priest "after the order of Melchizedek." The plainer English of the Moffatt translation words it: ". . with the rank of" [color=#000000]that is, equal status with "Melchizedek."[/color]

Melchizedek Was God's Priest !

First, notice from both Old and New Testaments that the man of mystery, Melchizedek, was a priest of the Most High God. Turn 'low to the account in Genesis 14. During the war between a number of ancient city-states in Canaan and Mesopotamia, Abraham's nephew Lot had been captured. He and his family and goods were carted off.

One of their number escaped and brought the news to Abraham, who armed 318 of his own servants and pursued the invaders to what was later named Dan and beyond. Abraham rescued Lot and his family and returned them safely to the Canaanite cities.

On Abraham's return 'a man of mystery bursts upon the scene'. Abraham was ministered to by Melchizedek.

Here is the account:

"And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was priest of God Most High. And he [Melchizedek] blessed him [Abraham] and said, 'Blessed be Abram by God Most High, maker of heaven and earth; and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand!' And Abram gave him [Melchizedek] a tenth of everything" that is, a tithe of all, for a tithe means a tenth (Genesis 14:18-20, RSV).

Notice that Melchizedek was king of Salem. That is the city of Jerusalem. "Salem" comes from the Hebrew word meaning "peace." That would make Melchizedek the "King of Peace" (Hebrews 7:2). The Hebrew name Melchizedek itself means "King of Righteousness" (Hebrews 7:2). The same individual is mentioned in Psalm 110:4. Speaking prophetically of Christ, David stated: "The Eternal hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This verse is quoted again in Hebrews 5:6, 10.

Before we turn to Hebrews for the identification of Melchizedek, remember that this mystery figure is a mystery only to us. Abraham and the King of wicked Sodom knew exactly who he was. They must have seen him before. He could not have been a Canaanite, for they were steeped in pagan customs. And furthermore Canaan was a descendant of Ham, whereas God basically chose the descendants of Shem to accomplish His work.

Then who is the mystery man Melchizedek?

One other hint before we proceed. The land of Canaan from ancient time, before the days of Moses, was known among the Gentiles as "the divine land" the Holy land" the land of the place of worship!" Why? Was there someone in the Holy Land who was divine, holy, worthy of worship?

The Mystery Clears !

Coming to Hebrews 7, we find Melchizedek identified:

"For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace" (Hebrews 7:1-2).

Since God names individuals what they are, that, then is what this man is.. "King of Righteousness."

Think of it! King of Righteousness. !

Jesus Himself said: "There is none good but one, that is, God" (Matthew 19:17). Human self-righteousness is, before God, as filthy rags. None can be righteous but God—or one made righteous by God's power—Christ in a person! And certainly none but One of the Godhead the divine Kingdom of God would be King of Righteousness. Such an expression, applied to any but God, would be blasphemous. Why?

Righteousness is obedience to God's Law. Since God made all laws (James 4:12), He is Supreme Ruler or King. He determines what righteousness is. "All thy commandments are righteousness" (Psalm 119:172). When speaking of one of the points of that Law, Jesus placed Himself superior to it. He is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28). No man is Lord or King over God's Law. Only God could be! All human beings have sinned and broken that Law of righteousness (Romans 3:23).

To continue with Hebrews 7. Note, too, that this man was King of peace. "Salem" from which Jerusalem was named means "peace." And remember, Jesus is called the Prince of peace! No human being could be King of Peace. Men know not the way of peace. Read Romans 3:10 and 17: "There is none righteous, no, not one.... And the way of peace have they not known."

Observe further: Melchizedek was "without mother, without father, without descent," or as the Phillips translation renders it: "He had no father or mother and no family tree." He was not born as human beings are. He was without father and mother. This does not mean that Melchizedek's records of birth were lost. Without such records human priests could not serve (Ezra 2:62). But here Melchizedek had no genealogy. He must not have been an ordinary mortal. He had no descent or pedigree from another, but was self-existent. Notice Paul's own inspired interpretation of this fact: "Having neither beginning of days, nor end of life" (Hebrews 7:3). Therefore He has always existed from eternity! He was not even created, like angels. But He is now eternally self-existing. And that is true only of GOD deity, not humanity!

Melchizedek is Not the Father Nor the Holy Spirit !

Yet Melchizedek cannot be God the Father. He was the "priest of that Most High God." Scripture says no man has ever seen the Father (John 1:18, 5:37), but Abraham saw Melchizedek. He cannot be God the Father, but rather, "made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually" (Hebrews 7:3).

And there it is! In the days of Abraham, He was not the Son of God, for He had not yet been born of the virgin Mary but He was made like unto the Son of God in His manifestation to the ancients.

Notice again: Melchizedek, this scripture reveals, abides that is, remains permanently, continually, a priest. God the Father is not the Priest of God, but Christ the Son is! Yet, in the days when the Apostle Paul lived and wrote, shortly after Jesus ascended to heaven as High Priest, the scripture states that even then Melchizedek "abideth "—which means does now abide—"a priest continually." The Moffatt translation states it: "continues to be priest permanently" even while Jesus Christ is High Priest!

And notice that the order of Christ's Priesthood is named after Melchizedek. It is the High Priest's name that is placed upon an order just as Aaron's name was upon the Aaronic priesthood. Thus Melchizedek was then High Priest, in Paul's day, and even now, and He will rule forever! And at the same time Christ was, is today, and shall be forever High Priest!

Are there two High Priests'? No! Impossible! The conclusion is inescapable. Contrary to many cherished man-thought-out ideas, Melchizedek and Christ are one and the same! Some people have stumbled on the statement that Melchizedek has no "end of life." They contend that since Christ died, He had an end of life! If that be true then Christ is still dead! But Christ is not dead. He is alive. It was not possible for Christ to be held by death (Acts 2:24). Melchizedek would never have fulfilled His office of High Priest if He had not died for the sins of the people and risen again. It is the function of the High Priest to lead the way to salvation.

Indeed, Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our salvation (Hebrews 5:9; 12:2). He is "called of God an high priest after the order of Melchizedek" (Hebrews 5:10).

And no wonder. Melchizedek and Christ are one and the same Person!''
Tayeni,i decided to put up the above for you alone becos the others hav seen this prior to this time but they still refuse to admit openly yet they can not disproof all that i have been saying becos it is nothing but the scripture .
Make a research on theophany and Christophany,it will help u understand more. Please see below :

''A Christophany is an appearance of the preincarnate Christ in the Old Testament, or after his ascension.-Web definition.
''A Theophany is a manifestation of God in the Bible that is tangible to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period, often, but not always, in human form.
Some of the theophanies are found in these passages:

1. Genesis 12:7-9 – The Lord appeared to Abraham on his arrival in the land God had promised to him and his descendants.

2. Genesis 18:1-33 – One day, Abraham had some visitors: two angels and God Himself. He invited them to come to his home, and he and Sarah entertained them. - a Christophany, a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.

3. Genesis 32:22-30 – Jacob wrestled with what appeared to be a man, but was actually God (vv. 28-30). This may also have been a Christophany.-Christ

4. Exodus 3:2 - 4:17 – God appeared to Moses in the form of a burning bush, telling him exactly what He wanted him to do.-Theophany

5. Exodus 24:9-11 – God appeared to Moses with Aaron and his sons and the seventy elders.-Theophany

6. Deuteronomy 31:14-15 – God appeared to Moses and Joshua in the transfer of leadership to Joshua.

7. Job 38–42 – God answered Job out of the tempest and spoke at great length in answer to Job’s questions.-Theophany

Frequently, the term “glory of the Lord” reflects a theophany, as in Exodus 24:16-18; the “pillar of cloud” has a similar function in Exodus 33:9. A frequent introduction for theophanies may be seen in the words “the Lord came down,” as in Genesis 11:5; Exodus 34:5; Numbers 11:5; and 12:5.
Every theophany wherein God takes on human form foreshadows the incarnation, where God took the form of a man to live among us as Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23).

IF HEBREWS WOULD SAY ''There is no record of his father or mother or any of his ancestors--no beginning or end to his life. He remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God.'' How then would you say i made it up !
Daniel 3:24-25'' Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?”They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.” “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God'' This is another Christophany and if i conclude that Christ was actually in the burning furnace with the three hebrew children would that be heresy or blasphemy ? Open ur eyes tayeni !

Thank you holy spirit for helping me to show ur children that they are to present to you in appreciation that which you gave to them all in a bid to continue to work and walk with you !
Tithing under the new testament is like the tithing did by Abraham to Jesus in Genesis that is not under compulsion,threat,coercion but a mind/heart thing to be done out of Love and appreciation to the most high God !

Fr_evangel,if you are a pastor like i thot i heard you said ,please allow ur congregation to appreciate the almighty with all they have including their their tithes if they so desire.But if you don't need them to do it in ur church,i believe God will lead them to some other ministries where they can give it along side with other forms/kinds of appreciation(praise and thanks giving) they wish to offer to show their love for God ! You said for people to say tithing works is a big scam ! And i ask you that have you gotten or better still if you received everything you asked from God in prayers ? Should we now conclude that becos we don't receive or are yet to receive all we ask from God then we can confidently conclude that prayer does not work! But atheists can have such conclusion becos they are spiritually dull but i want to believe that even if you are dull spiritually,it will not be like the atheists !
Tithing is not to be under compulsion but it God's,HE expects it from us,HE writes it in our hearts,It's pre-Law,Jesus COMMENDED IT, and IT HEBREW TAUGHT IT SO it is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NEW TESTAMENT !

God bless us all

[quote author=fr_evangel]Here's what I asked:



And please do not give "us" what you think or some special "rhema". I mean show us from the scriptures so I can confirm for myself as that's how Bible teachings are suppose to be.[/quote]The first man that ever tithed was Abraham - Genesis 14:18-20
The second man that ever tithed or vowed to tithe even after God has promised to bless him was Jacob-Genesis 28:20-22
From the two accounts,it is very very clear that the LAW never introduced tithing ! We all know that the Law itself was given after the exodus from Egypt ! Abraham tithed 640yrs before the Law and his son Jacob tithed 445yrs before the Law.
Who instructed these men to tithe ? May be i should leave it to you for an answer but i sure know that there were no Law except that it was written in their heart,or God must hav spoken to them to do so or out of their Love for God and to show appreciation ,they decided to do so especially Abraham,but for his son Jacob,it could be that grand pa taught him and he decided to vow tithing 'as a way to a covenant (deal) with God 'But trust God to always be faithful !
What did we see with the tithing of Abraham to Melchizedek ! It was not out of compulsion or threat but out of Love and appreciation for it was after he was blessed that he gave HIM a tenth of everything !
How about with the tithing of Jacob ?- It was also God has pronounced his blessings on Jacob that Jacob spoke about tithing ! But he did it a different way from his grand pa,Abraham. See below that God already pronounced HIS blessings that will sure come to pass becos HE IS GOD ! :
Genesis 28:13-15''There above it stood the Lord, and he said: “I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.''
As Jacob heard about these things,he decided to strike a deal with God by vowing to tithe ! See below :
Genesis 28:20-22''Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear so that I return safely to my father’s household, then the Lord will be my God and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God’s house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth.”
From the Above scriptures,we can see clearly that these two were never told to tithe but they did,they were never rebuked for doing so by God and they did it out of Love and concern and the perfect acknowledgement that it is God who favors one and must be appreciated any how ! I believe that apart from tithing they were equally involved in giving other kinds or praise,offering and thanks giving but still they tithed ! This is Love ! I can be lead to tithe this way but not forced or threatened to do so ! This is not law but a pre-Law tithing which is the original kind of tithing !
Now for people who say we are not under the law and can no longer tithe,i put it to them that it was not law that introduced tithing but law towed same line but in a different way other than this seen in Genesis !
Since Law did not introduce tithing,how then are we expected to make do away with tithing that was not introduced by law ? You remember when the people said to Jesus in Mathew 19:7-8''“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.''
The above scripture takes us to how tithing changed according to the provision of the Law ! The Levetical order of tithing isn't God's original plan for tithing. God's original plan for tithing started with Abraham and not the Laws ! The Laws were commanded for a reason ! It's only a shadow of what is to come,that is back to statusquo !

OOOOOPPPPPPSSSS ! Bible study please !
Will revert with the flow of tithing from pre-Law,During LAW and post Law as you requested ! And the patterns as commanded by Christ.
Thanks For giving me this opportunity to encourage the brethren who appreciate the works of God in their lives !
NOTE: We will get to see if tithing can take one to heaven or not !

God help us all

Pastor Kun: You are obvious forcing your fraudulent opinion into scriptures as the scriptures clearly do not say all you have alleged/made up here.

You know the scripture said all i have been saying but you are finding it difficult to accept it cos it will be difficult for you to turn arround and start teaching heaven bound Christians how to tithe the new testament way as taught by the writer of Hebrews,Jesus and even our Father Abraham and Jacob ! But if it's true that you still don't understand,then you need a 'GREAT FULL' of the holy spirit to help you after all there were insights released to Apostle Paul that weren't released to the early prophets !

GOD HELP US ALL

Pastor Kun: @MKO2005
Which one is Melchizedek order of tithing again Do you have to introduce your own terminology into scripture to establish a fraud Or how does one conclude that a one off event is an order of something?

I gave you scripture and not my words ! Spiritual matters are not letters !
Melchizedek(Jesus) blessed Abraham !
Melchizedek(Jesus) brought wine and bread !
Melchizedek(Jesus) received tithe from Abraham !
The 'order' which he carried out the above three spiritual exercises were Melchizedikal ! Hence the saying ; THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK !
You should understand the above becos that was all Melchizedek did in HIS entire life that was recorded but if you don't understand these sayings,there is nothing i can do !
Hebrews 5:11''There is much more we would like to say about this, but it is difficult to explain, especially since you are spiritually dull and don't seem to listen.''

God help us

christemmbassey: God is nt a trader, pls go n work, stop hiding behind God's tithe of agric produce to defraud ppl. Repent now.

It's like asking me not to pray anymore since i work or better still not to believe in God since science has 'made almost everything available' !
You wonder why atheist don't believe in God and some 'christians' say Jesus is not the only way to get to God !

God help us

[quote author=fr_evangel]You have not answered my questions, not even an attempt.
I actually want us to study it together. So it will be nice to get your replies when you are able.
It's okay, Wish you well.
The Grace of Our Lord Jesus be with you.[/quote]Thanks for the bolded above !
I have up to 40 mins to put up here with you guys for today and i do hope something comes out of this ! But olivertwist said i should harking unto the words of Apostle Paul regarding argument but i have a feeling that so many will learn from what i'm been lead by God to drop here regarding HIS words. And i'm not responding to anyone here trying to coerce or convince fr_evangel,goshen,kun,frosbel or even christ embassy but i know people will be liberated and tithe to God out of love for his blessings upon their lives and for the furtherance of the gospel !
Fr_evangel, what do you mean by WHERE ? Let us start with the '[b]WHER[/b]E' first ! Awaiting ur response !

God help us

[quote author=fr_evangel]It seems you jumped into the thread without following through from the early pages.

1. I am not afraid of giving, I've been a "radical giver". I used that term to lay emphasis. I am so radical about it, that I believe myself and everything I own, belong to God. Not just 10%. I like to leave it there so as not to expand the discussion beyond tithe, the subject of this thread.
2. I would be receiving tithe and special seeds by now if I still believe and preach it, so it's not about me not wanting to give.
3. I believe in support for your local church or ministry and pastors financially and otherwise, where and when necessary.
4. I have studied tithing completely, every mention of tithe, tenth, tithes etc.
5. I studied tithe while I still believed and tithed. I did after I realized I was not like the Berean church but like the end time crowd that will be misled in these last days. I studied other doctrines again as well, faith, giving, anointing, The Holy Spirit, Love, Righteousness, and many more. The only reason I did was that I had never studied them ON MY OWN.
6. I understand fully well, the message from the story and analogy of Melchizedek, because I've studied it.
7. I understand properly Matthew 23:23 and I have already answered someone who used that to back tithing. Check my previous posts.
8. I have read and understand Hebrew 7, I have explained that earlier too, check previous posts.
9. I am not looking for a command to tithe, I am asking that we be like the Berean church. Acts 17:11; It's not too much to ask a Christian.
10. I am not trying to convince you to stop tithing, I am asking you to go back to the scriptures, again, be like the Berean church, especially because of the times we are in. This is beyond tithing, it should be the same for everything you are or have been taught.
11. Testimonies of "It works, I am a living proof" is the most deceptive way to check the veracity of a doctrine. Much like your wife a catholic, probably telling you praying with rosary and before an altar built for Mary, or praying through Mary works for her. I saw a thread recently about testimonies of using the rosary in prayer. Also like a white garment church member will tell you bathing in the river at nights works, because a woman after 20 years of barrenness got a baby after the bath and some mention of the Name of Jesus.

Like I asked, please explain chronologically, tithing as seen in the Bible. The purpose and pattern.
The WHY, WHAT, HOW and WHEN from the scriptures.[/quote]Now evangel,like i said before,i have answered all the whys,hows,whens and wheres according to ur questions. But i will take my time to come back to you and do justice as you want it one after the other ! I think it will be good that way. But please permit me to just attend to something that will fetch me some cash arround make you no think say i dey pay tithe so that God go do magic for me
Reverting please !

Melchizedek even brought wine and bread and blessed Abraham !

Who the night before he was crucified broke bread and blessed wine for his disciples ?

I don tire make i go pursue money small

God bless every one of us and give us insight to these sayings !

God help us

iphy42: That there is no record of the birth or reign of Melchizedek does not mean he has none.

I am not for or against tithe. I only obey God who may sometimes require to give more than 10% of something or even more than half of what you earn or have.

Now you got it ! I love this ur post. But please study Hebrews and Genesis very well and spiritually discern who Melchizedek is likened to !
Jesus is the high priest according to the order of Melchizedek was mentioned seven times in Hebrewsalone. Do you think it's for furn !

Hebrews 5:6''And in another passage God said to him, "You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek."
Hebrews 5:10''And God designated him to be a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.''
Hebrews 6:20''where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.''
Hebrews 7:11''If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood--and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood--why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?''
Hebrews 7:15''This change has been made very clear since a different priest, who is like Melchizedek, has appeared.''
Hebrews 7:17 ''And the psalmist pointed this out when he prophesied, "You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek."
Hebrews 7:21 ''but there was an oath regarding Jesus. For God said to him, "The LORD has taken an oath and will not break his vow: 'You are a priest forever.'"

Now from the above,who do you think this scripture is referring to ? No other person but Jesus ! Who do you think Melchizedek is ? Remember he is called the king of Salem which was later named Jerusalem. Who was crucified becos they called HIM king of Jerusalem or the Jews as it were ?-Jesus. Melchizedek was refered to as King of Justice-Jesus is the only king of Justice we have. Melchizedek was called the king of peace ! It is only Jesus who is the king of peace. No man ever remained a priest for Ever other than Jesus but Melchizedek was said to had remained a king forever. Infact the book of Hebrews said HE resembled the son of God ! According to the law,if you are not from the Levetical or Aronical order you can't take tithe but Melchizedek collected tithe from Abraham and this is the reason we give tithe today to Jesus.Abraham did it to lay the foundation of the tithing principle today not according to laws of exodus,deuteronomy,leveticus or even Malachi. Malachi showed us the blessings there is and God want's to do more for us no wonder HE want's us to praise,give thanks for the once HE done already !
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO MELCHIZEDEK DID AND IS STILL DOING TODAY,VISIT GENESIS 14:18-22 AND IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO HE IS,VISIT HEBREWS 7 !

God bless us

[quote author=fr_evangel]With this your last post, I can most likely tell the ministry you fellowship with.
You sound like someone who do not study the Bible but listen to some preacher (I have one in mind) as your primary source of "rhema" you speak of. I'll appreciate if I'm proved wrong and corrected.
How does a Christian say this?
I asked questions already, you ignored it, and then ask people to as questions?
The fact that you quote Malachi as the blessings tied to tithing shows you are not ready to learn?

Let me add to my previous questions...

Have you actually studied the WHOLE BOOK of Malachi?
Do you know the purpose and message of the entire book of Malachi?
Why lift Malachi 3:8-10 and use it alone, when the entire book is from the same Prophet to the same people, under the same Spirit for the same purpose?

I need answers from the scriptures so I can check it out myself like the Berean church.[/quote]The melchizedikal order of tithing has got nothing to do with Malachi but i only quoted Malachi 3:10-11 to encourage tithers who are already tithing and believing God for open doors or window as it were If you want to learn how to tithe,study Genesis 14:18-22 and Genesis 28:20-22. Then you go listen to Jesus in Mathew 23:23 and also study (Spiritually) our beloved book of Hebrews then you will learn how to appreciate God with all you have and never wait again for you to be commanded by Moses or some Levetical modern day Priests
I bet you,you don't know the brethren i worship with but if you think it's with the brethren in Christ Embassy then you will get it all wrong cos i have not seen any of pastor Chris' pastors or him before ! I am a Christian i don't play church ! If the catholic church don't tithe,though they have started tithing since the parish where my wife worships encourages them to tithe and my wife gives it willingly from her heart without grudge to appreciate God and she tells me the enormous positive works going on in their parish ! Even if roman catholic don't tithe doctrinally, No church or man is our standard other than Jesus and the scriptures !
You said you asked me some questions and i tell you that you will find all answers to ur questions in all my write up here on this very tread but if there is another,go ahead and ask me !

God help us

iphy42: @ mko, pls when did Jesus collect tithe in Genesis? This notion is pure heresy and blasphemy.
Jesus was in the world physically from Matthew to John. Please do not twist the bible!

See the conclusion if you read the opener !

''Tithing Absolutely and Positively supported by the book of Hebrews in the New testament !

Hebrews 7:1-18
''This Melchizedek was king of the city of Salem and also a priest of God Most High. When Abraham was returning home after winning a great battle against the kings, Melchizedek met him and blessed him[b].Then Abraham took a tenth of all he had captured in battle and gave it to Melchizedek. [/b]The name Melchizedek means “king of justice,” and king of Salem means “king of peace.” There is no record of his father or mother or any of his ancestors—no beginning or end to his life. He remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God.
Consider then how great this Melchizedek was. Even Abraham, the great patriarch of Israel, recognized this by giving him a tenth of what he had taken in battle. Now the law of Moses required that the priests, who are descendants of Levi, must collect a tithe from the rest of the people of Israel, who are also descendants of Abraham. But Melchizedek, who was not a descendant of Levi, collected a tenth from Abraham. And Melchizedek placed a blessing upon Abraham, the one who had already received the promises of God. And without question, the person who has the power to give a blessing is greater than the one who is blessed.
The priests who collect tithes are men who die, so Melchizedek is greater than they are, because we are told that he lives on. In addition, we might even say that these Levites—the ones who collect the tithe—paid a tithe to Melchizedek when their ancestor Abraham paid a tithe to him. For although Levi wasn’t born yet, the seed from which he came was in Abraham’s body when Melchizedek collected the tithe from him.
So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, why did God need to establish a different priesthood, with a priest in the order of Melchizedek instead of the order of Levi and Aaron?
And if the priesthood is changed, the law must also be changed to permit it. For the priest we are talking about belongs to a different tribe, whose members have never served at the altar as priests.What I mean is, our Lord came from the tribe of Judah, and Moses never mentioned priests coming from that tribe.
This change has been made very clear since a different priest, who is like Melchizedek, has appeared. Jesus became a priest, not by meeting the physical requirement of belonging to the tribe of Levi, but by the power of a life that cannot be destroyed. And the psalmist pointed this out when he prophesied,

“You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”
Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless. For the law never made anything perfect. But now we have confidence in a better hope, through which we draw near to God.''

I intentionally gave the whole of Hebrews 7 for us to see for ourselves what the writer of Hebrew is saying concerning Christ keeping in mind what Christophany means !Remember,Melchizedek never appeared any where in the bible untill Genesis 14:18-20 and immediately after that HE went into thin air until Hebrew brought us to the proper understanding of who this BEING melchizedek truly is :
Melchizedek was referred to as ''KING OF JUSTICE''- I don't know any other person who is king of Justice other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was refered to as ''KING OF PEACE''- I don't know any other person who is king of Peace other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to be one without BEGINNING AND END-I don't know any other person who is without BEGINNING AND END other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to be one who is a ''PRIEST FOREVER'' -i don't know any other who is a priest forever other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to have no father or mother !- JESUS(no let Mary and Joseph deceive you o )
Melchizedek's greatness was recognized by Abraham the father of all with the promise !
Melchizedek' was not according to the law to receive tithe becos HE is neither from levetical or Aronic order yet HE received tithe. Remember Jesus lineage wasn't expected to be king untill the prophesy came and it happened !
Melchizedek blesses Abraham,one who has already received the promise of the blessing of God !
Pastors (priests i.e levetical or Aronic)will all die but Melchizedek lives forever !
Hebrew said Melchizedek resembles the son of God ! (You remember when King of Babylon said that the fourth man in the fire resembles the son of God)
Melchizedek is the King of Salem(Jerusalem) Who was refered to as the King of Jerusalem other than Jesus !
Melchizedek brought out bread and wine and blessed him. Who blessed wine and broke bread and shared to HIS disciples the night to HIS death ? JESUS !
The law which was only a shadow of what is to come has changed according to Hebrews 10:1 and what we do today as tithing was same as done by Abraham without the law ! Tithing never started with the law and can not end with the law. Abraham tithed from his heart to Jesus and not under compulsion becos there was no Law as at the time he tithed !
Jesus is our most high priest in the order of Melchizedek according to Hebrews 7. And if you want to know what Christ is doing for us today as a priest in the order of Melchizedek, go to Genesis 14:18-22 becos that was the only place Melchizedek was featured and we where told what he did ! Hebrews 5:5''For a man to hold the priesthood, he must be called of God as was Aaron—Christ was a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek—Jesus Christ is the Author of eternal salvation.'' We give our tithe today to Jesus just like Abraham did and he was blessed.For you to tap into the promises of Abraham as a christian haven accepted Christ,learn also to appreciate HIS goodness in ur life !
Abraham tithed not by rules,obligation or threat but by heart that trust the lord. If you love God,you don't need to be preached tithing to becos you know that all that you have belong to God! It is our trust and heart to believe God.Letting HIM know that our no 1 priority is the lord.
Hebrews 8:10 ''.....I will put my laws in their minds,and I will write them on their hearts.I will be their God,and they will be my people.'' It should be in the heart of men to tithe and not by the law of compulsion of any sort !

Let me conclude as i await to answer positive questions in relation to this subject or scripture as it were.
Tithe is not our but God's
He writes it in our heart
He expects it from us
It is commissioned before the law
Commanded during the law
Commended during the time of Jesus !

See below the promises of the lord concerning us when we tithe :
''I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test! Your crops will be abundant, for I will guard them from insects and disease. Your grapes will not fall from the vine before they are ripe,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies.''
But only the spiritually connected will see how all the blessings relates to us that are mariners,doctors,bizness men,bankers and the likes today !
Tithing blesses both the church and the tither !

Remember,The letter(logos)killeth but the rhema (revelation)giveth life !

God bless us

iphy42: It is clear here that people mainly pay tithe to guarantee financial freedom more like trade and barter with God.
Even if you pay tithe, it must be to honour God and not to corner favours from Him or to bribe God.

As you pay tithe make sure you live a holy life. Don't use tithe as a defense for fornication, lies, adultery, jealousy and all sin. God will never reward a sinner!

Jesus don already warn us about this thing wey you just talk !
See below Mathew 23:23 ''“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens,but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. [b]You should tithe, yes, [/b]but do not neglect the more important things.''

God help us

iphy42: @ mko, pls when did Jesus collect tithe in Genesis? This notion is pure heresy and blasphemy.
Jesus was in the world physically from Matthew to John. Please do not twist the bible!

I did not twist the bible and will never do that. There is no mountain any where but ur ignorance is your mountain !
I have explained all these before but see below my previous answers to some one who asked same question earlier and i think fr_evangel should read also:

''Little wonder men of God rarely see the book of Hebrews 7 as one written solely to tell us the importance of tithing the new testament way!
Now for others who care to see and listen,sit back and enjoy this insight :

Have you heard of the word Theophany or Christophany ? If no,please see below meaning and scriptural backings :

''A Christophany is an appearance of the preincarnate Christ in the Old Testament, or after his ascension.-Web definition.
''A theophany is a manifestation of God in the Bible that is tangible to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period, often, but not always, in human form.
Some of the theophanies are found in these passages:

1. Genesis 12:7-9 – The Lord appeared to Abraham on his arrival in the land God had promised to him and his descendants.

2. Genesis 18:1-33 – One day, Abraham had some visitors: two angels and God Himself. He invited them to come to his home, and he and Sarah entertained them. - a Christophany, a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.

3. Genesis 32:22-30 – Jacob wrestled with what appeared to be a man, but was actually God (vv. 28-30). This may also have been a Christophany.-Christ

4. Exodus 3:2 - 4:17 – God appeared to Moses in the form of a burning bush, telling him exactly what He wanted him to do.-Theophany

5. Exodus 24:9-11 – God appeared to Moses with Aaron and his sons and the seventy elders.-Theophany

6. Deuteronomy 31:14-15 – God appeared to Moses and Joshua in the transfer of leadership to Joshua.

7. Job 38–42 – God answered Job out of the tempest and spoke at great length in answer to Job’s questions.-Theophany

Frequently, the term “glory of the Lord” reflects a theophany, as in Exodus 24:16-18; the “pillar of cloud” has a similar function in Exodus 33:9. A frequent introduction for theophanies may be seen in the words “the Lord came down,” as in Genesis 11:5; Exodus 34:5; Numbers 11:5; and 12:5.
Every theophany wherein God takes on human form foreshadows the incarnation, where God took the form of a man to live among us as Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23).

Having established the above facts,i think it is necessary we proceed with Hebrews !
To discuss Hebrews,let us see Genesis 14:18-20
''And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High,brought Abram some bread and wine.Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing:“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,Creator of heaven and earth.And blessed be God Most High,who has defeated your enemies for you.”Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered.''

Who is Mechizedek ? We will know who this 'being' is when we get to Hebrews the new testament but keep in mind the meaning of Christophany !
Genesis 28:20-22 '' Then Jacob made this vow: “If God will indeed be with me and protect me on this journey, and if he will provide me with food and clothing,and if I return safely to my father’s home, then the Lord will certainly be my God.And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me.”
From the above two scriptures,it has been established that Abraham who is the father of Christians also whom we MUST receive his blessings through Christ Jesus-tithed and his son Jacob tithed as well before the law ! The Law came after the exodus form Egypt and Abraham had already tithed to 'Melchizedek' before this time(640yrs before the law)And his son Jacob tithed 445yrs before the law and this brings us to the conclusion that tithing never started with the Law and what makes you think it ended with the Law !
Melchizedek,king of Salem and Salem later became Jerusalem,HE brought out wine and bread and blessed Abraham !-Genesis 14:18-22.
Who is the king of Salem(Jerusalem)that brought out bread and wine THE NIGHT BEFORE his DEATH ? Please don't conclude yet untill we get to Hebrew still keeping in mind what Christophany means !
The Law no doubt also commanded tithing but that does not mean that tithing started with the law-Leveticus 27:30-32''A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord.Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord.'' Please note that we are not discussing tithing as unto the law but want to show you that the law also commanded it but only as a shadow of what is to come !Note that Law was never brought about so that we will be under it for eternity but to show us a picture of what will be in the new testament.See Hebrews 10:1a'' For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things,''Remember that the slaying or blood sacrifice was never a bad thing becos it is LAW after all a blood sacrifice also occurred in the new testament-Jesus shedding HIS blood for you and i.So the sacrifices of animals in the OT was indeed a shadow of how to do it better in the NT !

Now let us see what Christ HIMSELF is saying concerning tithing:
Mathew 23:23''“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.''. He supported tithing immediately by saying yes you should tithe but HE rebuked them for not doing other important things contained in the book !-justice, mercy, and faith !
We all know who Jesus is,if he was not in support of tithing,HE would had condemned it right from Mathew 23:23 as HE did with so many other laws like stoning of the adulterous,divorce,Sabbath,paying of taxes,washing of hands before meal and so many others !
The issue of tithing was not discussed extensively in the new testament and i believe that it was not an issue no wonder there were no cases or issues raised concerning it much,but Hebrews gave us insights of what the pre-Law tithing was and what tithing should be as supported by Christ HIMSELF who receives all tithes !

Tithing IS absolutely and positively supported by the book of Hebrews in the New testament....

Reverting

christemmbassey: it is either he's been over brain washed or he's a tithe collector, so don't expect anything but a dance called 'twist'.

You guys might see it as a twist but i sure know it's challenging you at the moment becos it is all scripture and if you care,show me where i have twisted the book of Hebrews that infact supports tithing the most !
I don't tithe based on compulsion or threat but out of my love and appreciation for what God has done for me ! This is God's plan for tithing when Abraham gave a tenth to Melchizedek (Christ ) ! And Jacob gave to God when he vowed to give a tenth of ALL GIVEN TO HIM BY GOD ! Were they compeled to tithe ?-NO. Was there a LAW that they were following then ?- NO. They did it out of Joy and God accepted it whole heatedly !
Some of you here who kick against tithing could be that you belong to church where they don't tithe and you just want to oppose it by any means. Some of you may be enviuos of men of God who lead people to giving their tithes to the owner Jesus. Some of you just follow the crowd ! And the rest are been used by the devil knowingly or un-knowingly to kick against the furtherance of the gospel ! The chucrh today is not involved in confiscation of peoples goods/propertice to make money as they once did. God uses the blessings HE gave to the church to bless the church ! I am not a pastor and don't intend to be one tomorow,i wish to remain a godly brother till my death if Jesus tarry and i don't even tithe like it's a law that must be fulfilled. But i sure know that if you love God,you will look for all available means to give back to God and tithing is one of the numerous chanels to do so ! Tithing is not like am committing adultery,fornication,homosexuality,bowing down to a graving image of anything,so how have i sinned by showing appreciation to God for his goodness in my life ? Tell me if i will go to hell for tithing ! May be you are envious of the collectors ! But we are not giving to the priests or pastors as it were but to Jesus ! If they misuse our tithes,it concerns them and God but we have given to Jesus according to the order of Melchizedek !

God help us

smartchoice: Am not sure you people are talking of the same tithe as the Bible in Deut 14 v 22 which does not say PAY but BRING your tithes...the Bible recognises there's money but does not ask for monetary tithes rather the money should be spent on "whatsoever your heart desires" which you shall EAT AND DRINK BEFORE THE LORD! Am not going to pay anyone to work in God's vineyard...it should be the person's own choice! Am not going to monetise salvation no wonder we have a lot of desperate "PRIESTS"!

To all tithe receivers please show me where Jesus received tithe while on earth? Are you Christians....as in Christlike?

Christ received tithe in Genesis 14:18-22 and He commanded us directly & indirectly to pay our tithes and do other good things like to show mercy,pass good judgement and to be faithful in Mathew 23:23 !

You talked about whether tithe is money or produce and whether we are to bring our tithe or pay our tithe. If i bring my tithe(money) before the lord,is there anything wrong with it ? Whether i say pay or bring the fact still remains i am presenting it to the owner(God) ! When Jacob said i shall give you tithe of ALL I POSSESS,what do you think the ALL I POSSESS stand for ? When Abraham gave tithe of all his spoils, what were the things involved in the tithe he presented to Melchizedek ?
If you keep considering the tithing of 'the Law'Leveticus,exodus & Deutronomy then you will be making a mistake,becos you will be among those who can say to people that they will DIE if they don't tithe !But when you go to pre-Law tithing(Genesis 14:18-22 and Genesis 28-20-22) and tithing after the Law as we see in Hebrews 7 & even the little admonition by Christ HIMSELF in Mathew 23:23 then you will understand what tithing truly is ! Ur considering the tithing in Deuteronomy will be like going back to the laws of stoning adulterous women to death and also the law of tit for tat and the rest that you are more familiar to than myself !
See below vow of Jacob to God for HIS blessings :
''....and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth.”-Genesis 28:22 This one tells me that i can give a tenth of my goods to God as a Modern day Lagos based Bizness man ! It must not be land produce man ! Be spiritual for once and see that even if it were to be land produce,how many of us plant in farms or rear cattle today ? Should we now say becos we are not farmers and cattle rearers then the tithing principle to actually acknowledge God isn't for us ? Then i will say following Jesus as a Nigerian is stupidity after all Nigeria isn't Israel(Jewish nation) and was not even part of the gentile nations mentioned in the bible But we are spiritual that is why we are connected ! People thinks the writer of Hebrews ended tithing while on the contrary it reminded us of the very and original way of tithing- TITHING IN LINE WITH THE MELCHIZEDIKAL ORDER WHICH MEANS TITHING TO CHRIST HIMSELF AND NOT THE LEVETICAL OR ARONICAL ORDER OF TITHING WHICH IS TITHING TO MAN !

God help us

christemmbassey: when did God command Abraham to tithe, also Abraham performed animal sacrifice, i hope u r honest enough to also performing sacrifices. Bless u.

God never commanded Abraham to tithe but he tithed and his son Jacob tithed also without God's command and the LAW ! It's a heart thing and so if you tithe today based on the fact that you are waiting for you to be commanded either by Moses or who ever it means you don't love God and not appreciative as well ! We tithe becos we love God and acknowledge HIS blessings in our lives. Abraham performed sacrifices of heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon. It was only a shadow of the ultimate sacrifice of our lord Jesus Christ ! We are not suppose perform such sacrifices any more becos God asked us not to do so becos there is a better one(Jesus)But for tithing,HE never asked us to discontinue and infact Christ said YES it is good to tithe ! And the writer of Hebrews said we are clinch unto the tithing to Jesus Like Abraham did in Genesis 14 !

God help us

chuksmad: Brother, you are misinterpreting everything, forget about the few selfish pentecostal pastors that freeze his church members. Look at the bigger picture by using the money to pay church workers and do evangelical works. which you can find more in orthodox churches. The law of nature made it that blessed are those that give. think about it

He may not see it that way unless God shows him ! The bible is the most misunderstood book in the world becos people try to go through it carnally ! But the letter killeth but the word giveth light !

Tithing expands the kingdom and furthers the gospel but the devil isn't happy but they allow the devil to work on their envy and hatred for some pastors to rob us off our blessings and our appreciation to God !

Tithing is absolutely and positively new testament ! It is God's,He writes it on our hearts,He expects it from us,it is pre-Law,Jesus commended it,The law commanded it and Hebrew explained it to us the proper way to tithe !

God bless us

christemmbassey: bros u'v acceptet dat law which includes tithe, animal sacrifice etc are all shadows, why do u discard others and choose to practice only one shadow(tithe), this is clear dishonesty.

You get it all wrong !
Tithing HAS ALWAYS bein before the law and Hebrews made it clearer that it was pre-law as we saw tithe been given to 'Christ' (Melchizedek) In Genesis 14:18-22 and Genesis 28:20-22. Hebrews made it clearer that we should tithe according to the Melchizedekal order(Tithing to Christ) and not the Aronical or Levetical order which was done to man ! Animal sacrifices was made away with inspite of the fact that it was a shadow of the main sacrifice to come ! Hebrews 9:11-15''But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining[b] eternal redemption.The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.'' This very scripture shows us that animal sacrifice has been replaced by the sacrifice of Christ HIMSELF !
And Hebrews 7:1-18 took us back to the pre-Law how we are to tithe-The Melchizedekal order of tithing ! This is tithing to Christ HIMSEL and not like the levetical order of tithing that is to Man !

God help us

Pastor Kun: Thanx for this Goshen, It's amazing these people claim to be christians yet they have no clue what Abraham's blessing they keep claiming is. They probably assume his blessing is the gold and silver the bible said he was rich in.

The blessing(s)of Abraham !
I do not need to argue this with any one of you but i sure know that those who are lead to see it will most definitely see it.
See below edifying words of Tony and Marge i sincerely believe it will throw light into how the blessing(s)of Abraham applies to us Christians through our faith in God by Christ Jesus :
''
Galatians 3:14''That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.''

The blessing of Abraham begin in Genesis 12: 1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house,unto a land that I will shew thee
- 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
- 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

May we as children of God receive all God have for us through our Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I. The first blessing is Genesis 12:1 ...unto a land that I will shew thee:
God who desires to lead us by His Spirit would like to lead us to the place in our live to serve him.
A. Lead us to our spouse.
B. Lead us to our church.
C. Lead us to our education.
D. Lead us to our job.
E. Lead us in our calling.
We do this by letting the Holy Spirit [/b]Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
God doesn't bless us just to make us happy; He blesses us to make us a blessing.

II. Blessing number two of Abraham. Genesis 12:2[b] And I will make of thee a great nation,
A. We are part of a great family, the family of God.
B. We do not join it. You have to be born into to it by receiving Jesus.
1. Shaking hands with a preacher and joining church is not enough.You must be born again.

III. Blessing number three in Genesis 12:2 ...and I will bless thee,
A. God wants to bless us and meet every need of our lives. Phil 4:19 ''But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.''
B. He knows what we have need of before we know ourselves.
C. He wants us to have life and more abundantly. John 10:10 ..... The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
D. He will do more than we can think or ask. How by the power in us, which is the Holy Spirit. Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

IV. Blessing number four. Genesis 12:2 ...and make thy name great,
A. Years ago my wife and I were guests of the Lord Mayor of Cheltenham, England. We were asked to sign the book of special guests. We signed our name below the signature of Queen Elizabeth the Queen of England. As I signed the book I was reminded of the Holy Spirit that Jesus has signed the Book of Life for me with His own precious blood. Praise the Lord!
B. We rejoice because God has made our names great because of Jesus.

V. Blessing number five Genesis 12:2 ...and thou shalt be a blessing:
A. God wants us to be a blessing to all people.
B. Take the Gospel to the world.
C. Our lights need to shine in the sin dark world.

VI. Blessing number six of Abraham Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee,
A. God does not only want us to bless but also be a blessing.
B. When we bless others we can expect it to come back to us.
C. Some people have told us(Tony & Merge) that they have given to our missionary outreaches because of both my natural and spiritual tie to my great great grandfather ......Abraham. They said 'God would bless them because of it'. I have replied that it is because of God's promise not me.

VII. The seventh blessing of Abraham Genesis 12:3 ...and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
A. Our acts of obedience, faith, righteousness and walking in the Holy Ghost power will bless all the families of the earth.
B. We must desire it with all our heart and then we will bless all the families of the earth.
1. We do it when we walk and live in the Word and Spirit.
2. God is more anxious to bestow his blessings on us than we are to receive them.''

Now from the above,anyman who is lead by the spirit will understand the sayings but if you are carnally minded,you will protest the above and try to argue it !
Now to conclude regarding tithing, i leave to you the below from the word of God knowing fully well that not all understands spiritual matters.
Hebrews 5:11-14 ''There is much more we would like to say about this, but it is difficult to explain, especially since you are spiritually dull and don’t seem to listen. You have been believers so long now that you ought to be teaching others. Instead, you need someone to teach you again the basic things about God’s word.You are like babies who need milk and cannot eat solid food.For someone who lives on milk is still an infant and doesn’t know how to do what is right. Solid food is for those who are mature, who through training have the skill to recognize the difference between right and wrong.''
Just to tell you that the above scripture Hebrews 5:11-14 is for those who refuse to WILLINGLY AND CHEERFULLY give to God what is already HIS, I ask you this question,'IF I PAY MY TITHE NOT GRUDGINGLY & NOT UNDER COMPULSION BUT TO DO IT AS HEBREWS 7:1-8 ADMONISHES US & TO DO IT JUST LIKE ABRAHAM & JACOB DID BEFORE THE COMING OF THE LAW(Genesis 14:18-22 And Genesis 28:20-22) KNOWING FULLY WELL THAT TITHING NEVER STARTED WITH THE LAW BUT PRE-LAW AND NEVER ENDED WITH THE LAW BECOS JESUS COMMENDED IT IN MATHEW 23:23 AND HEBREW 7:1-18 MADE US UNDERSTAND THAT TITHING ISN'T TO MAN BUT GOD ALONE ! Will it be sin if i TITHE ? I know fore sure that i have not sinned but supported the advancement of the kingdom and furtherance of the gospel !

God bless us all

Goshen360: Bros e, the blessing of Abraham is simply Christ. In Christ, we are blessed or sharing the blessing promised to Abraham Abi na Abraham cattle and silver you sharing from?

See below the blessings as promised by God to Abraham :
Genesis 12:2-3
''“1.I will make you into a great nation,
2. and I will bless you;
3.I will make your name great,
4. and you will be a blessing.
5.I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
6.and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.''
The above are the blessings of Abraham !
And these blessings can only get to us through our lord Jesus Christ as Christians but we still need to activate it just as we need to activate salvation that is made available to all that accepts it and not to those that rejects and refuses to pick it up !
Please have in mind that the issue at hand from my end is to tell you all that Tithing is absolutely,positively new testament !

God help us

christemmbassey: we use to tell ilitrates dat, even if A is as big as Calabar stadium, they can not see it. Don't worry d bobo go just waka pass, they r blind to truth, na only tithe blessing them dey see

If i don't see and go for the blessings and also acknowledge the fact that HE owns all i have,what else do you want me to go for when i already have salvation as given to me by Christ ? Do you think that being saved (heavenly bound)will put cash in ur pocket ? Na play you dey if you believe that one-Ask Lazarus him go tell you how far.
Anyway i want this discuss to be educative so some others can learn. E dey pain me say i no dey for this thread since,chai !

God help us