₦airaland Forum

christemmbassey: what is the blessing of Abraham? Thats d key.

Genesis 12:2-3
''“1.I will make you into a great nation,
2. and I will bless you;
3.I will make your name great,
4. and you will be a blessing.
5.I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
6.and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.''
The above are the blessings of Abraham !
And these blessings can only get to us through our lord Jesus Christ as Christians !

God help us

Goshen360: Are you. saying you received Christ and the holy spirit to help you obey the mosaic laws? If this is what you saying, lemme know so I can quote some mosaic laws and you tell us how Christ or holy spirit help you to fulfill them. And please, when I do, don't tell us some laws are ceremonial, while some are sacrificial because I will ask you where you also get such distinction from.

We are talking about the laws and commandment of God and if you can't dcode this let me help you with some scriptures :
Mathew 19:17-19''Why ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. But to answer your question—if you want to receive eternal life, keep[a] the commandments.“Which ones?” the man asked.And Jesus replied: “‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely.Honor your father and mother. Love your neighbor as yourself.''
Romans 13:10''Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.''
1 John 3:24''Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.''
James 1:25''But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.''
Mathew 23:23''What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens,[a] but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.''
1 Corinthians 6:18''Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.''
Just to mention a micro and infinitesimal number of them all,but if you say these are not laws what are they ? And what ever you think they are,where are they written and how do we know they should be obeyed and when we violate them,what tells us that we have gone contrary ?

God help us

christemmbassey: yes, bc d provisions therein failed and bcame obsolete and could nt save man(acts 13:38-39, rm8:1-4, gal 3:16, and hebrews 7:18 for there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going befor for WEAKNESS AND UNPROFITABLENESS THEREOF. 19. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a BETTER HOPE did, by which we draw neigh onto God. (KJV) pls study hebrews caps 7, 8,9 and 10, it will bless u.

Are you telling this young man that the new testament invalidated the blessings in the old testaments ! If that is what you mean by yes above,then how can you explain below scripture :
Galatians 3:14''T[b]hat the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith[/b].'' Please don't teach heresy becos you do not support a ''RHEMA'' in the scriptures !

God help ur children who thinks they stand !

God help us

Goshen360: Blessings in the old was attached to we 'doing' but new Covenant blessings is because of what Christ had 'done'

You got it all wrong ! In the old,we struggle to do as written in the books of the Law but in the New testament Christ helps us to do as these same laws are written in our hearts ! We can do all things through Christ that strenghtens
Hebrews 8:10''For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people''
Today we should be tithing out of love and appreciation and not under compulsion with grudge ! If you truly love God,you will tithe without ur pastor having to say a word on it !

God help us

guysmat: If you must pay tithe, then know that the tithe is for YOU. To be eaten in the Lord's presence alone with all members of your families. Not for you to give your hard earned salary to another person to enjoy at your own detriment.. The truth shall set you free. Please read Deuteronomy 14:22-29 and see what is never preached to you in church about tithing. But we thank God for Jesus who came to tell us that he doesn't need your money. You can't buy His love, you can't buy forgiveness and neither can you buy life. Your life has already been paid for in full. All the Lord wants is the development of your personal relationship with him. Whether you're rich or poor is highly irrelevant to this matter. What matters is how you relate with Him in private. Remember, despite all the good you think you're doing in this life, if you have no love in you, you won't make it to heaven. Shalom!

You obviously don't understand what tithing is !
The grace of God sure brought salvation and there is nothing the devil can do about that but our God is a God of principle ! To be above there are things that MUST be activated !
These are spiritual biblical matters !

God help us

Pastor Kun: Apart from the fact that I have always known you as a notorious twister of the gospel due to your love for collecting tithes, Hebrews 7 which you are trying to twist seals the lid on the coffin of the defunct tithe doctrine. Verse 11 makes it clear that the priesthood and the tithing law which supports it has changed whilst verse 18 which you deliberately omitted describes tithing as a weak useless and unprofitable law. If as you allude hebrews 7 supports your tithe scam how come it was never taught or practised by the early church? Infact tithing was not introduced to christianity until 585AD by the catholic church, over five hundred years after the establishment of christianity.

Thanks Kun for giving me the opportunity to explain more of this revelation to you !
Let us begin with verse 11 you quoted. This very verse infact makes it more clearer that Jesus owns the tithe and not the pastors ! For if the tithe is for the priests as some parts of the law opines and that it is okay for it to be so,then there will be no need for the writer of Hebrews to draw our attention to the Melchizedikal order which is the order of our Lord Jesus who owns the tithe and not the priests of Levi or Aronical order ! Hebrews reminded us of the final nail on the cofin of levetical tithing but admonished us to go ahead with the new testament tithing which is the tithing according to Melchzedical order which is solely for our lord Jesus Chrsit .And i put it to you again to tell me what Melchizedek who can be said to be 'Christ' collected tithe from Abraham,brought bread and wine and blessed Abaraham !
See below Scripture you quoted for urself :
Hebrews 7:11''So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, ?'' God established the Melchizedikal order of Priesthood for us to go back to the original tithing as seen in Genesis 14:18-22 and not the levetical (Law)kind !
Hebrews 7:18''Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless.''
You said i omitted the above verse 18 Why will i do such deliberately when it indeed supported my stance and what the writer of Hebrews really want us to see ! The old requirement of tithing(Levetical or Aronic order) which was only a shadow of what is to come was set aside becos it was weak and contradict's the original plan(Melchizedical order of tithing) which is the tithing to our lord Jesus Christ !
Who told you that the early church never supported or taught tithing ? From when do you start counting as early church or which group of people will you consider as part of the early church ? Is there any church that can be earlier than the disciples and apostles ? If Hebrews can throw all it's weight and support for tithing,if also Christ can personally instruct us directly and indirectly to tithe,what other early church do i need ?
You say i twist scriptures becos i show you a rhema and you decide to go with the letters but remeber the letter killeth !

God help us

Tithing Absolutely and Positively supported by the book of Hebrews in the New testament !

Hebrews 7:1-18
''This Melchizedek was king of the city of Salem and also a priest of God Most High. When Abraham was returning home after winning a great battle against the kings, Melchizedek met him and blessed him[b].Then Abraham took a tenth of all he had captured in battle and gave it to Melchizedek. [/b]The name Melchizedek means “king of justice,” and king of Salem means “king of peace.” There is no record of his father or mother or any of his ancestors—no beginning or end to his life. He remains a priest forever, resembling the Son of God.
Consider then how great this Melchizedek was. Even Abraham, the great patriarch of Israel, recognized this by giving him a tenth of what he had taken in battle. Now the law of Moses required that the priests, who are descendants of Levi, must collect a tithe from the rest of the people of Israel, who are also descendants of Abraham. But Melchizedek, who was not a descendant of Levi, collected a tenth from Abraham. And Melchizedek placed a blessing upon Abraham, the one who had already received the promises of God. And without question, the person who has the power to give a blessing is greater than the one who is blessed.
The priests who collect tithes are men who die, so Melchizedek is greater than they are, because we are told that he lives on. In addition, we might even say that these Levites—the ones who collect the tithe—paid a tithe to Melchizedek when their ancestor Abraham paid a tithe to him. For although Levi wasn’t born yet, the seed from which he came was in Abraham’s body when Melchizedek collected the tithe from him.
So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, why did God need to establish a different priesthood, with a priest in the order of Melchizedek instead of the order of Levi and Aaron?
And if the priesthood is changed, the law must also be changed to permit it. For the priest we are talking about belongs to a different tribe, whose members have never served at the altar as priests.What I mean is, our Lord came from the tribe of Judah, and Moses never mentioned priests coming from that tribe.
This change has been made very clear since a different priest, who is like Melchizedek, has appeared. Jesus became a priest, not by meeting the physical requirement of belonging to the tribe of Levi, but by the power of a life that cannot be destroyed. And the psalmist pointed this out when he prophesied,

“You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”
Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless. For the law never made anything perfect. But now we have confidence in a better hope, through which we draw near to God.''

I intentionally gave the whole of Hebrews 7 for us to see for ourselves what the writer of Hebrew is saying concerning Christ keeping in mind what Christophany means !Remember,Melchizedek never appeared any where in the bible untill Genesis 14:18-20 and immediately after that HE went into thin air until Hebrew brought us to the proper understanding of who this BEING melchizedek truly is :
Melchizedek was referred to as ''KING OF JUSTICE''- I don't know any other person who is king of Justice other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was refered to as ''KING OF PEACE''- I don't know any other person who is king of Peace other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to be one without BEGINNING AND END-I don't know any other person who is without BEGINNING AND END other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to be one who is a ''PRIEST FOREVER'' -i don't know any other who is a priest forever other than JESUS !
Melchizedek was said to have no father or mother !- JESUS(no let Mary and Joseph deceive you o )
Melchizedek's greatness was recognized by Abraham the father of all with the promise !
Melchizedek' was not according to the law to receive tithe becos HE is neither from levetical or Aronic order yet HE received tithe. Remember Jesus lineage wasn't expected to be king untill the prophesy came and it happened !
Melchizedek blesses Abraham,one who has already received the promise of the blessing of God !
Pastors (priests i.e levetical or Aronic)will all die but Melchizedek lives forever !
Hebrew said Melchizedek resembles the son of God ! (You remember when King of Babylon said that the fourth man in the fire resembles the son of God)
Melchizedek is the King of Salem(Jerusalem) Who was refered to as the King of Jerusalem other than Jesus !
Melchizedek brought out bread and wine and blessed him. Who blessed wine and broke bread and shared to HIS disciples the night to HIS death ? JESUS !
The law which was only a shadow of what is to come has changed according to Hebrews 10:1 and what we do today as tithing was same as done by Abraham without the law ! Tithing never started with the law and can not end with the law. Abraham tithed from his heart to Jesus and not under compulsion becos there was no Law as at the time he tithed !
Jesus is our most high priest in the order of Melchizedek according to Hebrews 7. And if you want to know what Christ is doing for us today as a priest in the order of Melchizedek, go to Genesis 14:18-22 becos that was the only place Melchizedek was featured and we where told what he did ! Hebrews 5:5''For a man to hold the priesthood, he must be called of God as was Aaron—Christ was a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek—Jesus Christ is the Author of eternal salvation.'' We give our tithe today to Jesus just like Abraham did and he was blessed.For you to tap into the promises of Abraham as a christian haven accepted Christ,learn also to appreciate HIS goodness in ur life !
Abraham tithed not by rules,obligation or threat but by heart that trust the lord. If you love God,you don't need to be preached tithing to becos you know that all that you have belong to God! It is our trust and heart to believe God.Letting HIM know that our no 1 priority is the lord.
Hebrews 8:10 ''.....I will put my laws in their minds,and I will write them on their hearts.I will be their God,and they will be my people.'' It should be in the heart of men to tithe and not by the law of compulsion of any sort !

Let me conclude as i await to answer positive questions in relation to this subject or scripture as it were.
Tithe is not our but God's
He writes it in our heart
He expects it from us
It is commissioned before the law
Commanded during the law
Commended during the time of Jesus !

See below the promises of the lord concerning us when we tithe :
''I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test! Your crops will be abundant, for I will guard them from insects and disease. Your grapes will not fall from the vine before they are ripe,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies.''
But only the spiritually connected will see how all the blessings relates to us that are mariners,doctors,bizness men,bankers and the likes today !
Tithing blesses both the church and the tither !
Remember,The letter(logos)killeth but the rhema (revelation)giveth light !

God bless us

Processor01: I initially got my first revelation to quit tithing sometime last year when the Holy spirit directed me to Hebrews 7 but I was too lazy to study it and ask him for deeper revelation.

After some weeks I gave into fear and revelations from my church(odozi-obodo) but i kept reading and thanks to the likes of Frosbel, Goshen, Pastor Kun. After some time of self study and prayer I took the bold step and some days I feared that I might have an accident or suffer serious losses but I began to feel this peace and boldness in place of fear.

When I finally got a mega promotion I finally concluded that the God these folks preach seems to be different from my father.

Your 'promotion' would hav been VERY MEGA or even MEGA than what you received if only you had returned to God what belongs to HIM( a tenth) or trust HIM with your tithe ! Don't be deceived mate cos even unbelievers (pagans and the rest)get 'mega promotions' as well !
Now you quoted Hebrews 7,I will like to tell you in addition to other new testament scriptural backing for tithe like Mathew 23:23 that HEBREWS is the ONLY new testament book that explicitly and implicitly ADMONISHED US TO TITHE and not the other way round. Little wonder men of God rarely see this book as one written solely to tell us the importance of tithing the new testament way !
Now for others who care to see and listen,sit back and enjoy this insight :

Have you heard of the word Theophany or Christophany ? If no,please see below meaning and scriptural backings :

''A Christophany is an appearance of the preincarnate Christ in the Old Testament, or after his ascension.-Web definition.
''A theophany is a manifestation of God in the Bible that is tangible to the human senses. In its most restrictive sense, it is a visible appearance of God in the Old Testament period, often, but not always, in human form.
Some of the theophanies are found in these passages:

1. Genesis 12:7-9 – The Lord appeared to Abraham on his arrival in the land God had promised to him and his descendants.

2. Genesis 18:1-33 – One day, Abraham had some visitors: two angels and God Himself. He invited them to come to his home, and he and Sarah entertained them. - a Christophany, a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.

3. Genesis 32:22-30 – Jacob wrestled with what appeared to be a man, but was actually God (vv. 28-30). This may also have been a Christophany.-Christ

4. Exodus 3:2 - 4:17 – God appeared to Moses in the form of a burning bush, telling him exactly what He wanted him to do.-Theophany

5. Exodus 24:9-11 – God appeared to Moses with Aaron and his sons and the seventy elders.-Theophany

6. Deuteronomy 31:14-15 – God appeared to Moses and Joshua in the transfer of leadership to Joshua.

7. Job 38–42 – God answered Job out of the tempest and spoke at great length in answer to Job’s questions.-Theophany

Frequently, the term “glory of the Lord” reflects a theophany, as in Exodus 24:16-18; the “pillar of cloud” has a similar function in Exodus 33:9. A frequent introduction for theophanies may be seen in the words “the Lord came down,” as in Genesis 11:5; Exodus 34:5; Numbers 11:5; and 12:5.
Every theophany wherein God takes on human form foreshadows the incarnation, where God took the form of a man to live among us as Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23).

Having establishe the above facts,i think it is neccessary we proceed with Hebrews where you claimed you got a revelation to stop tithing.I want to believe that ur revelation might be from man or the devil becos it is written that even the devil can come like an angel of light to lead people astray by perverting the gospel !
Now to discuss Hebrews,let us see Genesis 14:18-20
''And Melchizedek, the king of Salem and a priest of God Most High,brought Abram some bread and wine.Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing:“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,Creator of heaven and earth.And blessed be God Most High,who has defeated your enemies for you.”Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered.''

Who is Mechizedek ? We will know who this 'being' is when we get to Hebrews the new testament but keep in mind the meaning of Christophany !
Genesis 28:20-22 '' Then Jacob made this vow: “If God will indeed be with me and protect me on this journey, and if he will provide me with food and clothing,and if I return safely to my father’s home, then the Lord will certainly be my God.And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me.”
From the above two scriptures,it has been established that Abraham who is the father of Christians also whom we MUST receive his blessings through Christ Jesus-tithed and his son Jacob tithed as well before the law ! The Law came after the exodus form Egypt and Abraham had already tithed to 'Melchizedek' before this time(640yrs before the law)And his son Jacob tithed 445yrs before the law and this brings us to the conclusion that tithing never started with the Law and what makes you think it ended with the Law !
Melchizedek,king of Salem and Salem later became Jerusalem,HE brought out wine and bread and blessed Abraham !-Genesis 14:18-22.
Who is the king of Salem(Jerusalem)that brought out bread and wine THE NIGHT BEFORE his DEATH ? Please don't conclude yet untill we get to Hebrew still keeping in mind what Christophany means !
The Law no doubt also commanded tithing but that does not mean that tithing started with the law-Leveticus 27:30-32''A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord.Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the Lord.'' Please note that we are not discussing tithing as unto the law but want to show you that the law also commanded it but only as a shadow of what is to come !Note that Law was never brought about so that we will be under it for eternity but to show us a picture of what will be in the new testament.See Hebrews 10:1a'' For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things,''Remember that the slaying or blood sacrifice was never a bad thing becos it is LAW after all a blood sacrifice also occurred in the new testament-Jesus shedding HIS blood for you and i.So the sacrifices of animals in the OT was indeed a shadow of how to do it better in the NT !

Now let us see what Christ HIMSELF is saying concerning tithing:
Mathew 23:23''“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.''. He supported tithing immediately by saying yes you should tithe but HE rebuked them for not doing other important things contained in the book !-justice, mercy, and faith !
We all know who Jesus is,if he was not in support of tithing,HE would had condemned it right from Mathew 23:23 as HE did with so many other laws like stoning of the adulterous,divorce,Sabbath,paying of taxes,washing of hands before meal and so many others !
The issue of tithing was not discussed extensively in the new testament and i believe that it was not an issue no wonder there were no cases or issues raised concerning it much,but Hebrews gave us insights of what the pre-Law tithing was and what tithing should be as supported by Christ HIMSELF who receives all tithes !

Tithing as absolutely and positively supported by the book of Hebrews in the New testament....

Reverting

How can i stop tithing when am planning to give God the 90 percent and take the 10 percent !

The one tenth(Tithe) is God's -Leveticus 27:30 Psalm 24:1 Mal 3:8 Hagai 2:8
Tithe was commissioned before the law Genesis 14 :18-22 and Genesis 28:20-22
Tithe was commended during the law Deutronomy 26:2-3 And Leveticus 27:30-32 Mal 3:10-11
Tithing was commended during the time of Jesus -Mathew 23:23
Tithing advances the kingdom-Mal 3:10
Tithing blesses both the church and the tither.-Mal 3:10
God wrote tithing in our hearts No wonder Abraham and Jacob gave their tithes without been told by anyone to do so becos it's a heart thing!
God expects tithe from us !
Tithing blesses both the church and the tither !
Tithing is absolutely positively new testament-Hebrews 7,5,4 and 8 were all talking about how Christians should tithe !

We all know who Jesus is,if he was not in support of tithing,HE would had condemned it right from Mathew 23:23 as HE did with so many other laws like stoning of the adulterous,divorce,Sabbath,paying of taxes,washing of hands before meal and so many others ! But see what HE said to the teachers in the presence of HIS disciples:
“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.-Mathew 23:23 He supported tithing immidiately by saying yes you should tithe but HE rebuked them for not doing other important things contained in the book !-justice, mercy, and faith !

I will be back to tell you more about Hebrew !

God help us

God has already supplied us with the power and even the desire to obey HIM but we must have to supply the decision !
No body preached to me when i gave up my life for God but i tell you OP,it is only Jesus that can give you salvation in this dispensation !

God help us

The mods are anti-Christ so any write up against the body of Christ MUST be on front page whether true or false !

God help us

lawrenzoo: @Goshen, I don't tink cain married any sister, remember that satan had quarell with God before Adam's creeation, in which he sent Satan and his Angels down to earth, cain might have met one of the Angels den cos dey were in form of human beings too.

Your thought does not matter BUT what God is saying and thinks !

God help us

chukwudi44: DO YOU WANT ME TO POST LINK OF MARRIED PROTESTANT PASTORS CAUGHT FORNICATING OR EVEN RAPE? MORE MARRIED MEN CHEAT ON THEIR WIVES THAN CATHOLIC PRIESTS COMMIT FORNICATION.SOMEONE WHO WILL CHEAT ON THEIR WIVES WILL STILL CHEAT BRO

I'm not fighting with you bro. I'm not a protestant !

God help us

chukwudi44: BRIOS EVEN MARRUIAGE WILL NOT STOP THE BAD PRIESTS FROM FORNICATING AS IT HAS NOT STOPPED THE BAD MARRIED PROTESTANT PASTORS FROM FORNICATION OR EVEN RAPE

You are still finding it difficult to accept the TRUTH that is obvious even ! But i know say chukwudi !

God help us

chukwudi44: Mumu no one has ever been forced to join the catholic celibate priesthood.It has always been voluntary.Christ gave his consent to the ministry of Enuchs so stop beating around the bush.

Priestly celibacy in catholicism has never been a dogma but I don't think it will be reviewd in our generation.The archbishop was only making his personal opinion.It will only take the convocation of another church council to reverse it.

E don reach for you to dey call me mumu for God matter ? Anyway wetin you call me no matter but na wetin God call me na him matter.
Mayowak in his write up explained that in as much as The roman catholic church isn't forcing any one to be be preist but sure compels the priests to remain celibate as they are meant to take the oat of celibacy to ensure they remain celibate as priests !
As a catholic priest,if i get married in the course of my 'vocation' will i still be allowed to practice as a priest under the catholic church ?-The answer is NO-There lies the FORCE !

GOD HELP US

elampiro: Celibacy was tailored towards Mathew 19:12. Only those fit were meant to enter the Priesthood.

You do not understand what Christ meant when he said that to his disciples.They got afraid when he explained that on no account should we divorce our partners and they said if marriage is for better for worse then it's better not to even get married.But Christ said the saying would not be accepted by all but if you can accept it,please do ! He concluded by saying some came to earth not to feel anything for marriage,some others decided just not to get married and the last set were 'forced' by others into bein eunuchs ! They did all these for the sake of the kingdom and who ever can accept this ought to do so !
From the above,it is very clear that Christ never intend to force or want's any other to force anyone one into bein any of the three kinds of Eunuchs ! He only explained that once you are married,remain married,if you want to be an eunuch for the sake of the kingdom,no wahala still but it is not compulsory to be single all through for you to serve as a pastor,prophet,teacher or what have you. If Christ wanted us to be eunuchs for us to function as bishops or pastors or prophet,he would hav chosen un-married disciples all through or instructed them not to get married after his depature but he didn't do that and the bible recorded that most if not all the disciples and apostles were married.-
I Corinthians 9:5 ''Don't we have the right to bring a Christian wife with us as the other apostles and the Lord's brothers do, and as Peter does?''

God help us

If they eventually allow this,it will go to show the wise ones among them that traditions of men isn't superior to the scriptures !

God help us

MAYOWAAK: Stories of Catholic priests sexually molesting male and female children have been on the increase in recent years. Sometimes, such inappropriate sexual acts are not with children but with adults. A few weeks ago, a Catholic cardinal, Keith O’Brien – the head of the Catholic Church in Scotland and the most senior prelate in all Britain – resigned after admitting to having had sexual relations with some priests. Ironically, O’Brien had been a vociferous voice against homosexuality in the United Kingdom.

It is not that such stories are not heard among other Christian denominations now and then, but they are on a large and recurring scale in the Catholic Church. It is not because Catholic priests have a higher libido than other priests and pastors or that they are worse in morals. The only reason for it is the compulsory celibacy enforced among the Catholic clergy.

Such sexual molestation stories are not rife in Nigeria. But it is not because they don’t occur – for Nigerian priests are as human as their European and American counterparts – but because of two main reasons: 1. There is still a deep stigma for rape – victims prefer to keep silent to avoid being stigmatised; 2. since most victims are usually Catholics, they and their families would prefer not to tarnish the image of their beloved church by going public – they would prefer to bear the trauma for life than be pointed to as the “enemies” that wanted to drag the name of the Catholic Church through the mud. So, the silence continues, and everybody pretends that nothing untoward goes on in Nigeria. That I dared to write this at all will be considered sacrilegious by many.

Has the priestly celibacy worked for the Catholic Church? Yes and no. Yes, because it has helped to portray the Catholic Church as different from other Christian denominations, and therefore unique. It has helped to portray the priests as different from the laity, thereby strengthening their power over the laity and increasing their aura in their eyes too. It has helped to sustain the image of the Catholic Church as an institution with a great tradition. In addition, it has helped it to a large extent to have priests that are not ruled by inordinate acquisition of wealth as well as priests that are not too afraid to die in the line of duty.

But celibacy has not worked and will never work for the Catholic Church, because it is against natural law. Only VERY FEW men and women can be truly celibate for decades. And those who want to be truly celibate do so without any compulsion. Some would say that the Catholic priests are not forced to be celibate. That is true, but a man who passionately wants to serve the Lord as a priest in the Catholic Church MUST take an oath to be celibate, even if he earnestly does not want to be one.

Celibacy was an introduction into the church. The church was over a thousand years old when it took a definite stand in 1139, at the Second Lateran Council, forbidding priests to marry. In 1563, the Council of Trent re-affirmed that celibacy policy.

Curiously, celibacy is not a biblical injunction. It is not in the Old Testament, neither is it in the New Testament. It is not ordered by Jesus Christ or His apostles as a condition for one to inherit the kingdom of God. Christ made it clear that in heaven, there is no husband or wife, while St Paul said that whether one marries or does not marry does not matter. In 1st Timothy 3, Paul listed the qualities of a bishop or overseer, and said inter alia: “A bishop must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, hospitable, an apt teacher, no drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, and no lover of money.”

Christianity does not force its adherents to kill their libido. Sex drive is a natural and healthy thing that cannot be subdued by force. If it is subdued forcefully, it brews like a latent volcano, exploding one day in a destructive and embarrassing manner. It is a force that needs to be channelled to fruitful ventures, not caged. It is like hunger and thirst. One can control how much one eats or drinks, but one should not be forced to abstain from food and water. Even animals are not taught by anyone to engage in sex. In matters of sex, the difference between animals and human beings is that unlike human beings, they don’t have the capacity to manage and channel their sex drive properly.

Before becoming priests, many men would be convinced of their ability to be celibate all their lives. They start off well. But maybe a decade later, when the spiritual fire wanes or burns out, they see that they cannot control the sexual urge that rears its head in them regularly. And since they are not married and cannot resign as priests and face the odium of such an action, they look for the safest outlets: masturbation, paedophilia, homosexuality, and fornication. Children are naturally the easiest targets. Children are easier to deceive; children are easier to keep silent. CNN reported that a priest told a 12-year-old girl he wanted to defile who told him that such an act was a sin: “I am your priest. What I say is sin is sin. What I say is not sin is not sin!” And with such superior and fear-inducing arguments, he was able to disarm the girl, defile her and keep her silent until she became an adult and went public with her story.

Revolutionary men change things. Pope Francis can change this policy if he wants to. Luckily, clerical celibacy in the Catholic Church is not a dogma, but a regulation. A dogma like male-only priesthood is a Catholic dogma, irreversible by a Pope. But the ban on priestly marriage is a regulation, which can be changed by a pope overnight if he wishes.

Mandatory celibacy in the Catholic Church is an ill-wind that blows no-one any good. Just like the football ruling body, FIFA, saw reason after fighting against goal-line technology for many years for no other meaningful reason but to avoid change and maintain tradition, Pope Francis has the opportunity to be the pope that abolished compulsory celibacy in the Catholic priesthood. Every Catholic who truly loves his church should be on the campaign for the Catholic Church to discontinue that policy and save millions of children from sexual exploitation by the priests they trust and venerate, and also save the Church the embarrassment of constantly being bombarded with such unpalatable news from different parishes and dioceses.

Any time the story of sexual exploitation of children by a Catholic priest is aired or published anywhere in the world, it is not just the Catholic Church that is adversely affected by such news. The entire Christendom is affected and smeared too.

When a policy is not working, history makers face reality and change such a policy, thereby writing their names in gold in the process, while others prefer not to rock the boat and just continue to go with the tide, whatever the unsavoury consequences.

Guy,you rock !

God help us

Russia is Good becos she says NO to Gay union and America is 'bad' becos she says yes to Gay union

Which among the two is bein democratic ?

God help us

isleman: @poster, i love your question not because of its nature but because it shows you think> only people who think questions what they read or hear. and only people who questions what they read or hear that are wise and only the wise ones seek knowledge and only the knowledgeable one is nature and human and also free from deceits.

Let me first start by telling you the bible you see is a book of account by people. some by evidence, some God spoke to them and some are eye witnesses. The bible does not contain everything you need to know, but contains all you need to know to be a christian.

When God said, let us create man in our own image. He was referring to the heavenly hierarchies. Don't forget their are 9 cadres and hierarchy in heaven in which God is at the center - According to 'Dionysius the Areopagite'. (the bible is not explicit about that but do make references at times that assumes or reflect thus. such reference includes the question you have raised.).

Secondly, Adam and Eve do have children other than Cane and Abel. They weren't too relevant and thus were not mentioned in the bible. infact, Eve was said to have several twice after Cane and Abel which Cane married from.

It is important to seek knowledge as one will be a fool arguing or fighting on hear-say. I will teach more if asked. Many pastors you see around only read the bible thus have little knowledge about God. Reading the bible is good enough to be a good christian, but if you want to know about God, you need to read more than the bible or Quoran. You need to read far and wide. There are other books besides holy books that you need to read to know about God. Some are even condemned by some religious scholars but they bear some sacred truth about a lot of truth about God and life in general.

We don hear you oga ! If you like go and read all those apocryphal books and try to use it to contradict or agree with the canonical books that one concern you. You are right by saying that cain married either one of his siblings or relative just becos it's in consonance with the word of God in the entire canonical books and that is what the bible want's us to believe. Any other account that disagrees with the bible account is from the pit of hell or written out of ignorance !

God help us

JMAN05: We have no support from the scriptures to prove that God created other persons. in fact writers of the greek scriptures shows that God created only adam and eve.

through one man sin entered into the word said Paul. if God created other persons, dont you think that some people would have been perfect, and they could have remained in Eden?

I personally do not think the bible supports creation of other humans.

to your quotation above. it is true that the bible didnt say where Cain married, however that verse shows that it was after Cain left God's presence that he went to the land of Nod. Cain wasnt speaking with God alongside his wife. so he likely went to that land single.

Is it not logical to conclude that he married his relative when he went to that land?

I think there is also logic in concluding that he left for the land of nod with his wife ! The wife never killed Abel but Cain did so God wouldn't be talking to the wife but Cain and God understands HIS Law of ''What God has joined together let no man put asunder'' if not HE would had stopped the wife of cain from leaving his presence to the land of Nod with Cain !

God help us all

Saw this while going through the link made available by Goshen. My own conclusion on this subject is drawn from this write up below and i waill say,apart from what Goshen had earlier explained concerning this matter,i think the below should be considered and accepted by any christian who truly want's to remain a christian!
See below and digest it if you will :

''Tho i dont know but the various comments have attempted but i think is as difficult as trying to understand the origin of the big bang. However, some one attempted and i post it here
"The truth is that this question about Cain’s wife is nowhere near the“Gotcha!”threshold that critics allege. Three important rules need to kept in mind and adhered to when addressing this question (as with, frankly, any other question concerning the Bible):

The Bible, as a collection of books written by human authors under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit (II Timothy 3:16), is written and compiled on God’s terms (and not ours). We have no right to demand or expect that the Bible be written in a style or way that satisfies or pleases our tastes, preferences, cultural conventions, etc. Even though it requires some humility and, at times, a lot of work and time, we must approach the Bible on its terms (not ours) and we must discern the original meaning of its authors (not what we think it should mean, want it to mean, or–as is the case with some critics–try to get it to mean in order to caricature it and discredit it).

Don’t assume that the unexplained is unexplainable ! In their book When Critics Ask, Norman Geisler and Thomas Howe write:“No informed person would claim to be able to fully explain the Bible. However, it is a mistake for the critic to assume, therefore, that what has not yet been explained never will be explained.”That the Bible, in this case, doesn’t directly address where Cain got his wife means only and simply that the Bible doesn’t directly address or explain where Cain got his wife. That’s it. To jump from the absence of such an explanation to an assumption that this represents a mistake in the Bible is an unfair leap. Not only is it unfair, but it’s frankly not even a logical leap. The conclusion doesn’t necessarily follow the premise. And it’s particularly outrageous to take the even greater leap of arguing that the Bible is therefore flawed or beyond credibility.

The Bible isn’t always written in chronological order. This is a very important observation to keep in mind. While there is a general story arc in the Bible, the specific books are not always compiled in chronological order. What’s more, some of the books themselves jump around and don’t cover events in a linear, sequential fashion. Some critics jump on this as an example of biblical error, but that’s just a shallow and outrageous conclusion. It would only be an error if the writer intended to record events sequentially and failed to do so. The lack of a linear order, however, is NOT an error if the authors weren’t attempting one. Once again, we must approach the Bible on its terms, and not ours (see Rule #1).

Where Did Cain Get His Wife?

With the above rules in mind, the question“Where did Cain’s wife come from?”is easier to address, because we can be guided by the following truths:

The book of Genesis isn’t in perfect chronological order. It can sometimes jump back-and-forth. The writer is more concerned with topics and themes than with linear order.

Not every event that took place during that time period is recorded in Genesis. For example, Adam lives 930 years (according to Genesis), but Genesis only records a FEW of the things Adam said and did in his very long life span. The same is true with Eve, Seth, Abel, Cain, and all the other people in Genesis. Don’t make the mistake of assuming that only the things recorded in Genesis are what happened. Many things happened that are NOT recorded in Scripture.

Inbreeding is not forbidden by God until the time of Moses. As understandably distasteful as Inbreeding is to us (and it should be, especially in our current day and age), there’s no getting around the fact that there was Inbreeding in the earliest days of the human race as described in the first few chapters of Genesis. There just wouldn’t have been any other way for the human race to multiply. Eventually, the need for (and the practice of) Inbreeding would have dissipated as marital options increased from just brothers and sisters to include nieces, nephews, cousins, distant cousins, and so forth. Cain’s options for a wife were limited. He likely married a sister or niece. The same, by the way, would have been true for Abel (had he lived long enough to take a wife), Seth, and the other children that Adam and Eve had.

The timeline confusion over how we go from Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel in Genesis 4 to Cain suddenly worried about his safety and taking a wife (also in Genesis 4) can be explained in one of two possible scenarios:

There’s a significant time gap between Genesis 4:16 and 4:17. In this scenario, Cain kills Abel when there were only four people on planet earth (Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel) and is subsequently banished from the area by God. He goes to the land of Nod (Genesis 4:16) and…..time passes. During this passage of time, Adam and Eve have additional sons and daughters (Genesis 5:1-4). As this takes place, those sons and daughters likewise have sons and daughters. And so on. The human population grows and spreads throughout the area….and eventually makes its way to where Cain dwells. And then Cain takes a wife (Genesis 4:17). If this is what happened, then Cain’s plea for God’s protection in Genesis 4 was based on his knowledge of God’s direction to his parents to“be fruitful and multiply”and his anticipation that the human race would indeed grow.

When Cain kills Abel, Adam and Eve have already had multiple children. While Genesis 4 strongly indicates that Eve had Seth after Abel was murdered, it’s still possible that Adam and Eve had some of those other“sons and daughters”(as described in Genesis 5:1-4) before they had Seth. If this scenario is how things played out, then Cain murdered Abel at a time when there were many people on planet Earth (and not just Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel). Thus, he would’ve had good reason to fear for his life, since all the people on planet Earth (however many there were at the time) would’ve been related with (and would’ve probably known) Abel and would’ve been none too pleased with Cain’s actions.

We frankly don’t know enough information from Genesis to say for sure which of the above scenarios is true. And, honestly, it doesn’t matter. Odds are that one of them is true. If someone else can think of another, please offer it in the comments section. But, again, this isn’t worth getting too concerned about. Even if the book of Genesis is“awkward”in its“chronological”presentation of these events, it doesn’t necessarily follow that the events didn’t take place. Forgive the double negative there, but I’m trying to show that the rules of Logic don’t support a dismissal of the Genesis account, because of the“problems”or“discrepancies”between Genesis chapters 4 and 5. The only thing we can conclude is that we don’t, in the 21st century, possess all the facts surrounding Cain’s life. And that’s okay. We don’t have all the facts concerning Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, or Abraham Lincoln either. In fact, we don’t have all the facts concerning Jesus. The Gospel of John, for example, makes clear that there are many things Jesus said and did that are not recorded in the Gospels.

If the issue of Cain’s wife is important to you, then you can make that one of your first questions to God when you get to heaven. As for me, though, I think I’ve probably given it more attention that it deserves already in this blog post.

God bless you as you continue to read through the book of Genesis."

God help us

Artorius: CORRECT!!! That's the point I'm trying to make, I'm a seeker of knowledge, but when it comes to such things let's just leave them for when we meet God then we'll ask him. For now the scriptures were written for a purpose, let us as God's children concentrate on that.

ifeness stopped believing in the existence of God becos his pastor failed to answer this same question and questions like ;why did God say let us make man in our own image and not create man ? lol. Nothing wey person no go hear for NL !

God help us

Goshen,on this one,you are simply the best.

God help us all

''I would have said the latter was the
manifestation of the former, but Cain's
issue complicated things in Genesis
4:16-17. He found a wife in the land
of Nod and married there. I don't
think Adam and Eve gave birth to
those!

Back to the question or conclusion,
one can certianly say God created
some set of people before Adam and
Eve.''
@ayobase,Genesis 4:16-17 never said cain found a wife in the land of nod like you put it up there.It says cain knew his wife in the land of nod and she conceived !''Knew her ''means getting down with her even in today's english usage ! See below scripture for urself:
Genesis 4:16-17'' And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.''

God help us

unmask: if you want your stories to be believable, stop using the word "COULD"

He is using could becos he didn't write the bible may be you did so use what ever you want to use !

God help us

Olasuposaheed: I don't believe it may be someone should explain

There is nothing to explain to anybody here ! If you don't belive that it was Just Adam and Eve God created then leave it ! Some say the fruit they ate wasn't fruit but sex ! If you don't believe that it was fruit but sex,so be it !

God is God and HIS word is forever sure !

God help me

dapsonlou: The problem christian always face, they think questioning the book is a sin, it is not a sin to want answers. You have to remember that genesis is the history of the Jews, there were other race that didn't put their own history in a book. Must of you are educated, Adam n Eve date back 5000yrs ago according to Genesis, so if you think the world started 5000yrs a go then you need to go back to school.

See,for Christians,if the bible is saying the first man lived some 7 thousand years ago then it is that way ! If you must be a christian you have to live by that if not,look for some religion like atheism,paganism,agnosticism,bhudism and this other religion this billionaire guy is propagating,science fiction !

God help us

Billyonaire: The Egyptian Pyramid is older than bible. its one of ancient contours used for landing directions of spacecraft of early humanoid before crash of civilization.

bible is too recent to be source of information about origin of man.

This one don come again ! Continue dey follow ur science fictions leave us alone !

God please help him

[quote author=big-t]Sa, make we no love again abi? End time tinz!!!...[/quote]Wetin you one love for ? Which kind love you one love ? The ones wey you don dey love since,wetin come out of am ?

God help us

kindy86: abeg wot is d title of dis muzic?

You MUST not love before you marry !

God help us

[quote author=tpia@]can you put paragraphs plz, so we can read it properly.[/quote]No paragraph becos na the same tins,same point all through !

God help us