₦airaland Forum

prolog2:
Wow, this is amazing.
You actually believed I was here to "convince you".
And you are here talking about "Benin claims" and "superior argument" ?
You yoruba crooks will never let us get boared.
I wonder what your next trick will look like.
For your info, what you are calling "Benin claim" is actually what was recorded hundreds of years ago and on which the dated and authentified records are available in european libraries. And I am talking about historical facts not myths.
The problem with you and your fellow yoruba crooks is that you don't use your brain or lack one.

*Bored

*Authenticated

Go get yourself an education

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prolog2:
The first map of Benin Empire was made around 600 years ago. But I guess you were already there one thousand years ago to witness Benin Empire and its capital (Benin City) being called igodomigodo.

Get yourself a brain.

Lol

Thanks for the compliment my gee

But you failed to convince me in any of these arguments

I initially believed the Benin claims, but a lot has been exposed on this thread, hence I went with the superior arguements

Like I said to your equally rude brother, I try as much as possible to be a gentle man

So, Good nite

davidnazee:
Just a question.. what is your aim in all this back and forth arguments?
Me I’m just trying to show Benin kingdom’s greatness, It’s might and reach and also the advancement and civilization of ancient Edo people. I’m relying on evidence in the not too distant past to prove this.

I’m not concerned about who Oduduwa, Oranmiyan or were the first Oba of Benin came from. We are all entitled to our beliefs about these mythical figures.

My point is about Benin kingdom and it’s relationship with the Yoruba states and in this case opinions don’t matter rather we will use facts and evidence.

We are all entitled to our opinions. For me, I am just glad that we have people who study and value their history

But we need to start telling our stories to the whole world, both in visuals and sound

I did not mean any harm. And unlike you, I do not see benin as my enemy. Benin is something I am also proud of, as well as all the other great kingdom of our african ancestors, kush and mali etc

I remain a proud son of Nigeria

TheLordIsGr8:
Why I am forever skeptical of Nigeria making any meaningful progress the way it is right now.

Tribalism colors everything. This is worse than racism because it can't be shamed enough. It is our undoing. How can we ever trust in such a climate? It's nigh impossible.

Anyway hope you are giving your man the peace he deserves.

If it is friendly banter, i do not mind it. I actually find it funny. Even jokes about my own tribe

However, I love all of africa.

Olu317:
Moorish,there is no problem bro. Working with you will be with pleasure.

Cheers.

Will DM you

davidnazee:
Moorish your questions don't deserve answers.

Igodomigodo changed to Edo.
Questions you should ask is if before the Europeans documented the Kingdom as Benin Kingdom did the Edo people call land benin/ile ibinu as Oranmiyan called the land? or they called themselves a different name?
It was you Yorubas that refered to it as Ile Ibinu.

Heads of dead Obas were not buried in Ife

The Ogiso system of rule is different from Oba system of rule. Its like Nigeria changing from head of state to president. or from prime minister to president. they all have different functions and powers.

Please what is it about horses? does horses represent civilization to you? Can horses survive in rain forests?

If odduduwa was the son of an ogiso as you claim, with his son ascending the benin throne, they should have continued with tradition

Why did it change to an oba dynasty then?

davidnazee:
Igodomigodo changed to Edo.

From what I recall, Igodomigodo was the ancient name of the benin city state/empire

steveosaz:
Wake up from your hallucinations. Odu to da uwa is pure crap, but if you say you have worked it out as an answer to your oduduwa disjointed narrative, then so be it.

So you dubiously now hide under not wanting to learn a minority language. Meanwhile you had been creating the fraudulent impression that Edo was Yoruba and that was what propelled you to pointlessly ask what the oriki of Ekaladerhan was. That's practically the most insane thing I've heard. Its like you asking what the oriki of an English name is; doesn't that just sound silly?

You also baselessly claimed elsewhere that oduduwa is your direct ancestor. What a joke? So Lamurudu is also your ancestor abi? And what happened to the version of Yoruba history that has it that oduduwa originated from the middles east via Egypt? Or the laughable tale of him coming from the sky? So with that fraud you call history, that should imply that all of Yoruba race are from that your infinitesimal lineage... Lol. Guy, you are such a huge ass joke. All what you guys have been doing here in the name of history is just a comedy of errors.

Even as fallacious as some mythologies are, we've still seen Hollywood do adaptation of them mainly the Greek and Egyptian mythologies. But I haven't seen any such adaptation from Hollywood of those useless stories you people have been touting around all these years. That's because they don't appeal to common sense and reason.

"Do not throw rocks if you live in a glass house"

"Ogiso means ruler from the sky" according to http://www.edofolks.com/html/osahon_ogiso_dynasty.htm

No be only our odduduwa come from heaven oh

Olu317:
Oba Ovonweren was. begging him and his co warriors with females gift to leave his kingdom

I spat my tea out when I read that

You my dude bro

Moneywomen17:
are u being sarcastic or what Yoruba was on the 4th map u posted

that's exactly what I thought, but I ignored that annoying chap, who was flooding the page with images

davidnazee:
Only a fool (not insulting you) will dwell in and celebrate myths and fables.. A wise man will look at actual documents written by historians and explorers.. Those are what is considered as evidence when looking into details.
Someone like you will actually believe Oduduwa cane down from the sky on chains.

Do you think the British that wrote that article believes their own myths about Zeus and Mount Olympus?

Alot of the benin claims sound dodgy

piece by piece I am starting to rethink what I once believed..

growing up in your territory I was force fed this story by your people that you originated our monarchy and kingdom

But you cannot tell me why

1. Igodomigodo changed to ile ibinu
2. Heads of dead obas being buried in ife
3. Ogiso dynasty being replaced by oba dynasty

and the article about benin's first exposure to horses being when oranmiyan entered benin

and the sculpture

No smoke without fire

@olu317, we need to do more work in bringing this historical truth to light

@davidnazee I try to be a gentleman. I do not feel like exchanging pleasantries right now. Call me whatever you want, dawg..

@davidnazee You are still my brother. An african. I am not clannish

Olu317:
According to BBC Bitesize - The kingdom of Benin
www.bbc.co.uk › guides
The Edo people feared that their country would fall into chaos, so they asked their neighbour, the King of Ife, for help. The king sent his son Prince Oranmiyan to restore peace to the Edo kingdom. Oranmiyan ....

Look at Edo people's lives that Oranmiyan was the first man that rode on Horse in Igodomigodo.

This brass brass below figure is believed to be Prince Oranmiyan. Edo legend says that no one in Benin had ever seen a horse before Oranmiyan arrived!

That alone is Incontrovertible proof

Oyo was renowned for its large cavalry.

You are one damn fine researcher man.

davidnazee:
Well you make more sense that some other Yorubas on here.. I wonder why all this fight about history.. its all in the past now.. There were conquerors and there were the conquered. But all those dont affect our present now.. Its all just history. We should celebrate it rather than fight and try to distort it.

Guy, na una start the fight

I never hear you say one positive thing about oyo. But I did about benin

I personally believe we do not have to be friends or brothers to respect eachother

Ooni and alaafin should consolidate our nation in the west, that is, all yoruba speaking peoples in yoruba territory, including present day republic of benin, (the people of sabe, popo)

You should also go and consolidate your empire. Edo, delta, cross river and all your peoples in the south south

I think it will be a beautiful thing if benin can rise to its ancient prominence and influence (pre-colonial)

Moneywomen17:
there was nothin like the same people in the past each people consider themselves different then base on community not like Benin who consider themselves the same and still sell themselves

I concede to your point

At that time in history, if you called an ekiti or ondo citizen a yoruba, it will be seen as an insult to their heritage.

You were basically telling him he is a subject of the alaafin of oyo, which he was not

davidnazee:
You Yoruba guys make me laugh. The only people you deceive with your lies and fake history is your own fellow Yorubas, just the way the only people Oyo conquered and sold into slavery was their own fellow Yoruba brothers and sisters.

Go and research Benin Yoruba wars, only articles you will find is about Benin military campaigns in Eastern Yorubalands, defeating all yoruba armies that stood against it.. Even your Ogedengbe of Ilesha that tried to march on Benin was defeated and beheaded at Ehor.

"Do not throw stones if you live in a glass house"

We did sell our people into slavery centuries ago

Today, however, your people voluntarily sell themselves as slaves all over the earth

Does libya and italy ring a bell?

Olu317:
No problem. But I will like to refer you to absolutesuccess and metaphysical also

I do not really know those dudes.. but I will DM meta

davidnazee:
You do not know the truth about your ancestors or the society which they lived in.

Neither do you, smart ass

davidnazee:
My friend go an do your research again. Do you know that army that fought in the Kriji war? Do you really know what that war was about?
Before the Kriji war started, Eastern Yoruba was under Benin Kingdom, Ibadan was trying to free their brothers from Benin and also trying to take over control of the area. Benin Army together with their Yoruba loyalists fought that war and defeated Ibadan thereby ensuring Benin remained in control of the area till they were finally defeated by the British Army.

Below is a copied piece from my source concerning the Kriji war:

"During this period, the Ekiti vassal states of Benin were also beset by
by the growing military forces of Ibadan, for which reinforcements from Benin were despatched for assistance in the wars. This was also the period when the Yoruba states were engaged in wars, which had its consequences for the expansion of Benin in the area"


Also below is another piece proving Benin's Lordship over eastern Yorubas;

"In 1818 the Akure-Benin War broke out. The war aim of Benin was to regain the territory and enforce the payment of tribute, for which Akure put up defensive fighting.41 The Benin army was led by three top war commanders namely, the Ezomo, the Ologbosere and the Imaran, and two other Front Commanders - Imadiyi and Oyodo.
The Benin soldiers successfully suppressed the Akure revolt. Their success in the Akure War, however, was due to the support of additional contingents of soldiers and logistics from the Ikerres in eastern Yorubaland and from Irrua - an Esan chiefdom.

After the reconquest of Akure, the two Front Commanders of the Benin army, Imadiyi and Oyodo, established a military base at Otun for the continuation of military campaigns in Ekiti region and other parts of eastern Yorubaland. Several towns and chiefdoms were conquered and brought under the control of Benin. The Ekitis remained loyal to the Oba of Benin for a few years and revolted. This necessitated another military action under the command of Omuemu - one of the Front Commanders of the Benin army. With the success of the campaign, the Ekitis renewed their ‘allegiance to the Oba of Benin and the payment of tribute was maintained until the British occupation in 1897. There is evidence that the Deji of Akure played a crucial role for the Oba of Benin, in enforcing the payment of the tribute."


Please do not be deceived by some fellow Yorubas that come on here to lie and deny actual events that was recorded as being true. Benin Kingdom ruled Yorubas till late 19th century when the kingdom was defeated by the British.

What I will say to you is this

Eastern yoruba like ondo and ekiti did have skirmishes with benin. There were wins and there were losses

However, I won't disagree that those states were tributaries to benin.

However, "yoruba" as a term only applied to the citizens of the oyo city state and by extension all our tributary states

It is only post independence that the term "yoruba" encompassed all yoruba speaking peoples

So technically you never really occupied "yorubaland"

In pre-colonial times, "Yorubaland" will encompass the following present day locations:

Oyo kingdom (Oyo state, Osun state, Ogun state, kwara state and the republic of benin)

Ibadan did try to conquer towards the east

And we must be given credit because the egbas and ijebus enacted a blockage against us, so we couldn't import weapons through lagos.. the ekitis and ondos were also pushing against us from the east

Ogedengbe of the ondos was one of their warriors.

That was in the past

I believe we are united now

prolog2:
Time for boxing.
Don't choke on your myths.

@ Moneywomen17

Please pull up a definition for delusion also for this benin breh

prolog2:
Yes.

I hear you

The only way to verify history is by cross referencing

Wikipedia is as good as they come Because you can look up references from multiple sources

If Wikipedia reported pleasant information about your kingdom, you would probably refer to it

I do not need hard cover books to authenticate historical or any other kind of information

Olu317:
How can you imagine,an Edo man,who had no knowledge of the reason, Dahomey changed her name ? These people that could not defeat Attah of Ebirra,are the ones claiming to have conquered Dahomey? These Oviedos are bunch of jokes.

Bro, do not allow some clannish people make you hateful to a fellow african empire

I respect all our empires.

From kush to mali

kongo to great zimbabwe

nri and zaria

No man is an island

prolog2:
I guess you don't mean the same as me when you use the word "reputable".
Wikipedia is written by the regular joe. Some articles on wikipedia can help to initiate you to a topic by providing links to the real work with which you may verrify the statement on wikipedia and go further in the theory.
But still wikipedia is filled with nonesense, I know I put a lot of nonesens in there myself.
I am thirty and it is me and my agemates who wrote wikipedia for the largest part.
Wikipedia is terrible when it comes to African histrory. A lot of yoruba-centric people have hijacked a part of the african-history part of wikipedia.
You should look for historical documents instead of going to wikipedia. I guess you don't know the meaning of the expression "historical document". But I won't define it for you, I will let you research this one on your own like an adult.

Is there any objective truth to any "Historical document"

That was what I was alluding to there.

You always have to be sly in your insults don't you?

You are hardly a gentleman are you?

Moneywomen17:
are u saying that benin called Igodomigodo in the past is myth am not surprised. U are the same person that says oranmiyan never exist and he was just myth even though ur oba recognizes him has his ancestor. Everything is myth to u coz u are a deceptive liar who is fancy himself an intellectual every post contradict another post u make.

True words, true words

Olu317:
Yoruba didn't try to capture Bini because she a baby to larger Yoruba States . As it was in the beginning that Oranmiyan captured Igodomigod , Bini had always been seen as a cousin to Yoruba. And again, Oyo was the major Empire, while some provinces and states paid tributary to Oyo. And these people did this because of the military might and organization of Oyo.

I read somwhere that we tried to crush them 3 times, but their moat walls repelled our cavalry

Benin also had a formidable army oh. The oba could organize 30,000 men at any one time for battle. The itshekiri helped them take lagos island, they made up the naval force apparently

Oyo controlled badagry. We also had the whole republic of benin (dahomey), so we had the ports in porto-novo and contonou.. so we didnt need to take lagos island yet

Study Angus Mcbride, he showed benin militia.. They had nice head armors, spears and nice swords

Oyo did have good swords too, but I do not know anything about our body armour..

do you have any info on this I need this info

prolog2:
Wikipedia as a source of african history !? Nice one.
Come and have a discussion when you get your hands on real historical documents, not some wikipedia pages written by an other yoruba-centric person like yourself.

Lol @ "real historical documents"

You got jokes bro!!

Nice one

No hate my bro from benin, carry go nothing do you

Believe what you want to

If you can mention an online documentary resource that is more reputable than wikipedia, come back and speak to me

Till then, I wish you all the best in all your endeavors

@olu317

Bro, I am planning some projects regarding our histories..

I would love to trade ideas with you..

How can I hit you up??

Are you interested?

prolog2:
If what you claim is true then how come Dahomey changed its name into "Benin republic" and not "oyo republic" ?
If oyo was so great, then howcome no precolonial map recorded that "greatness" ?
How come historians from Benin republic know all about Benin Kingdom but don't give any credit to oyo ?

"1823 King Ghezo defeats the Oyo Empire and ends tributary status"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey

I don't think you can come back from this intellectual defeat

prolog2:
I just hope you know that you are still dwelling on myths.
No proofs of your claims have ever been provided.
The person being dishonnest is you.
Glad to see you have completely dropped your "neutral" mask, it was never a convincing one anyway.

Blood is thicker than water

I might not know a word in yoruba.

But I won't let you slander my ancestors and my heritage

I am more of a man than you. At least I have a regard for benin and other african empires

You are the hater.

Name one negative thing I said about benin

Yet You called yorubas weak. You said you subdued us.

So benin was never called igodomigodo??

You are joking right?

Olu317:
Help me tell the Edo haters. In fact, the was study on the burial sites of some of Oduduwa descendants,which had particular burial pattern. Help us ask them,what was the way past Ogisos were buried?

Bro, i dont hate benin. It was a mighty empire. But we were equally mighty.

In fact, oyo controlled more land mass then benin.

Dahomey was paying tribute to alafin for centuries

Dahomey! A whole F*cking country!!! That is present day republic of benin.

Oyo was truly great.

We tried to conquer benin 3 times. We failed because of the moat on their great walls.

And we know horses and moat don't like one another

Clever benin defences sha

prolog2:
I generally don't discuss myths.
I discuss things which have proofs or proofs of the contrary.
I debate based on logics and facts.
These stories are mere myths.

This is reality:


Benin Kingdom:

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b77595185.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b7759521n.r=Benin?rk=21459;2

An other map of Benin made in the 17th century once again:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714.r=Benin?rk=214593;2

An other map of Benin from the 17th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=193134;0

This one date to the 19th century:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8469390z/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp8flCwvoAU

Wasn't benin city called igodomigodo at some point?

Wasn't the ogiso dynasty the beneficiary of kingship at some point?

What changed these established traditions?

You are dodging my questions

Stop being dishonest.

My brothers from benin. We need not insult one another

@steveosaz and @prolog2

If you can give me definitive answers to these questions, then I am sure we can agree on scholarly truth

1. Why did igodomigodo change to Ile Ibinu
2. Why did Ogiso dynasty change to oba dynasty
3. Why were dead Benin kings buried in ife?

Number 3 is very weird and the benin theory does not add up.

So a benin monarch (Ekaladerhan) died in a foreign land (ife) which he now rules. So now, his sons who reigned in his homeland(benin) must be buried in ife the foreign land?? This is unrealistic if you follow the benin theory.

I think it was oba ewuare who ended this tradition of burial in ife.

It does not sound reasonable. If the benin hypothesis was the truth, even odduduwa would have been buried in benin, his original homeland, and subsequent kings of benin would also be buried in benin.

Tee billz get your hustle on

There are many other fish in the sea

Women sha. Money over b.....