₦airaland Forum

The questions benin folk must answer are 3 fold

We are learning, it is not about superiority, it is about truth

1. Why did igodomigodo change to Ile Ibinu
2. Why did Ogiso dynasty change to oba dynasty
3. Why were dead Benin kings buried in ife?

I am forced to conclude that it is because a foreign group entered the area and began ruling the conquered territory

@metaphysical and @olu

What about the ekalahaderhan hypothesis ?

davidnazee:
Many of eastern Yoruba monarchy was installed by Benin. Maybe you should start ur chipping in from there.

Bro, you are yet to address some very convincing points ?

Like Oviedo vs omo as it relates to the edo language ?

Isn’t omo a borrowed vocabulary from the west ?

Also, do you have any proof of ondo and ekiti being tributary states to Benin ?

Olu317:
I appreciate your genuine effort at making peace but do these liars deserve such ?Of course not because many of these Young people online dont have respect for Yorubas ,simply because we stretch forth hands of brotherliness. And they abuse it.

Kudos bro ,much love.

Cheers

I have a soft spot for the Benin’s because I was born and raised In their territory, and they were and are still nothing but brothers to me

But I wish we can have a purely educational dialogue here. I have learnt immensely from both sides

And I appreciate you guys trying to shed light on all these pre conceived notions we’ve held for years

MetaPhysical:
Do you notice that your map is missing many civilizations that pre-dated the map? If you observe you will realize the places marked are spots touched by seafarers or dessert chroniclers. In other words places experienced by those who wrote and drew maps in ancient times. If they did not touch Yorubaland it was not on the map. It does not mean they did not hear about Yorubaland because same sailors snd dessert travelers were the historians that documented and kept records of Bini roots and origin in Ife.

In equal measure I will support what Olu said about OVIEDO in one of his posts. So Ovie is Edo for child. Omo is not in Edo vocabulary. So how did you come about the title Omo N Oba, why is a foreign vocabulary attached to your monarch's official title? Which foreign land uses the word OMO?

Also Babaramota said Ile Ibinu is also not indigenous to Edo, that it is foreign. Yet your greatness as a society is enveloped in the city-name Bini or Benin.

The renaming of your land by the foreigner Oranmiyan is significant and point to conquest over Edo.

In all of these maps not one points to Edo, they all say Bini.

Your inability to shake off the foreign migrants from Ife that installed their throne and renamed your land is not lost on any of us.

Here is your assignment
1. Was there a Bini population on Edoland prior to Oranmiyan?

2. Is Omo an Edo vocabulary? If yes, what does it mean and how is it used?

3. Why are there no mention or accounts of Edo on map or Edo Kingdom or Empire in historical archives?

4. Why did Edo Chiefs go to Ife to appeal for a Yoruba ruler? What is it about Ife rulers that appealed to them?



Plenty precolonial maps exist and show functionality for sea voyage. A sailor will not sail to Oyo or Ife, so did not include in map. A dessert caravan will not go to Oyo or Ife for water or for rest and relief, so why bother put on map? However as trade markets opened into the interior of Africa, cartographers began adding routes on map.

Since when I was a lurker on nairaland, before creating my account, I always knew you as a man of high repute

Glad to see you post here

All you brothers have fair points, and make me question the history my Benin brothers have been giving me all these years

I was born and raised in Benin territory and I was taught that the Benin’s basically spawned my civilization

But you brothers are bringing some very convincing and alternative ideas

However, I will always maintain that it seems on the white man’s arrival here, the Benin’s reigned supreme, oyo also had some magnitude, and the sokoto caliphate too. kanem Borno not so much, nok was long since dead, and our brothers in the east were purely sedantry at the time, not really an empire, but also had sophisticated communities,

So, yea, oyo, Benin and sokoto were the people who had kingdoms at the time

The Portuguese seemed quite impressed by Benin, so those brothers deserve props and should be proud

We also know oyo was dominating its environment and were very formidable in battle. So I don’t know why we don’t have mutual respect for eachother

This superiority tussle will only massage the ego

It is worthless to me

And not founded in reality

How proud should British sons feel since they conquered us all? And we speak their language? Copy their civilization from the clothes we wear to the names we give our children

African consciousness/A nigerian identity and a respect for my ancestors is more fulfilling for me. And everywhere I visit in this great country I can call my home.

Both the kings of ife and benin seem to have a mutual respect for eachother and their shared heritage

We, their subjects should learn from our kings

Peace

BabaRamota1980:
Olu is not arguing or fighting, he is setting history straight. He is doing a FANTASTIC job and we love his drive.

Notice that we can never disrespect or tarnish the stool of Omo N'Oba because the throne and crown, the staff of sword and Ase in his posession belong to Yoruba dynasty in Bini. However, we must continue to assault and denigrate those who seek to bring the Omo N'Oba into disrepute and erase the footprint of his ancestry...like the uncivilized Edos who we enlightened and taught the art of State Rulership.

Edo has done much to repeat the rebellion that led to our domination over them in past. If it wasn't for the broader modern political system that overshadows the traditional State power we should repeat our humiliation and introduce a third dynasty over their landlocked land and subject them under Ijaw for State Rulership. That way we can have an independent Bini ruled by Omo N'Oba and an independent Edo ruled by Ijaw Chiefs.

We did it in past when gave them the Ogiso Chiefdom in first dynasty, gave them Oba Kingdom in second dynasty......who says we cannot impose on them a third dynasty of rulers from Ijawland? Na Nigeria save Edo.

I mean no disrespect man, but...

How do you expect to live in a country with the Edos with this your rhetoric?

You are basically saying yorubas are superior to edos.

I do not believe that.

What i believe is we have things which make us unique. That should be our focus

If the Edos say they are superior to us and we say same, that is the start of conflict

We should respect each other.

I have a deep reverence and love for my ancestors, all the peoples who now make up nigeria

I never had the priviledge of being born and raised in my ancestral land of oyo. I have lived in parts of nigeria and outside nigeria

A nigerian heritage is my only hope

Peace

Olu317:
Great opinion from you although the reality is that we may look alike as Africans so also via intermarriages but not necessarily of the same stock as Africans. We always fail to see the reality as Africans because, until we recognise our groups as different identities and work on our unifying factors. As a Yoruba man , I know my history very well and we aren't cannibals as some Africans, even within some of the enclave you mentioned. And, I find no pride feeling superior over anyone . In fact, in real life I mingle with sane people ,irrespective of tribes and no a hater of anyone. Once again, I appreciate your opinion with great humility.

From what I know, Nigerians have similar genetics. Apart from the hausa, who carry the 'R1b' marker (which is also common amongst european men btw) most of us in nigeria have similar genetics, the E1B1a haplotype

We all have to be humble, or else we shall be humbled. Benin, Oyo, and all our kingdoms were made subject to the tiny island in britannia. So, we are all a defeated people, this should have humbled us collectively. Now, is it productive to hate eachother? I think that will take us to darker places. Have you studied the ghanaian people? Do you know how proud they are of their nation? We can learn from them.

We have a great history. We should be coming together. And We have diversity.

I hope one day we can take great pride in our collective heritage, as nigerians.

Much respect to you mr olu

Olu317:
Truthfully, you are right but these Edo revisionists are the problems we have because they are trying so hard to tarnish the image of many Yorubas ancestors with their rotten lies they peddled online .I am sure you have seen some Edo using foul language on Ooni's stool as well as how rumours can be spread like wildlife online. This is non negotiable with me if anyone can stoop like a toddler's brain and insult my ancestor throne. This hasn't stopped me from having few Edo friends but I won't take shit from villagers Yoruba gave a standard form of civilization from 12th century which they capitalized on because of Yoruba's elders secrecy on our history.

I hear you brother, but at this point in time there is no point arguing on who is superior. We are all black people, african people.

We all have a world out there that looks at us as thesame race and they discriminate us thesame.

Study the history of our ancestors, from one slavery to the next. Today, arab, tommorow europe

We share alot in common, especially southern nigerians

The benin, ife, nri, oyo, all our kingdoms from east to west, even our brothers in the middle belt, the ancient nok, zaria in the north..

We had civilizations. We need to pull on our collective strengths and heritage, respect eachother and build an empire here in africa that would do the black nation proud

We have the wrong set of leaders and by the way some of us are acting we won't make better leaders either

omohayek:
This is the kind of story that illustrates most vividly how clueless and worthless Nigeria's leaders are. While Buhari is busy obsessing over the same old exportation of unrefined crude oil that Nigeria has depended on since 1970, in the western world new tech companies have sprung up from nothing but the imaginations of a few private individuals, to now be worth far, far more than all of Nigeria's oil exports in the last 48 years combined! We are now in a world where individual software developers working out of Lagos or Ibadan can take on contracts that can easily earn them $200/day or more, without even having to leave their houses, so why aren't more of them out there? Because the Nigerian environment does so much to frustrate them - from the lack of constant, reliable power, to the absence of fast and cheap internet access, to an unwieldy and opaque foreign-exchange policy that makes it difficult for Nigerians to do business with foreign counterparties.

If Buhari had a clue, or at least was willing to bring in advisors who could lend him one, he'd be spending what energy he does have trying to smooth the way for Nigeria's tech sector, through measures like helping the telecoms companies obtain the rights of way to plant fibre-optic cables across the country, introducing a single, freely exchangeable forex rate so foreign investors can be sure they can repatriate their earnings, and chopping up the national grid so places like Lagos can guarantee 24/7 power to local businesses instead of seeing the power they generate being stranded on a decrepit NEPA grid. The sad thing is that not a single one of the alternatives to Buhari seems any more clued in than he is: not any of the old thieves in the PDP, and certainly not the economic illiterate Sowore, who comes up with sillier and sillier proposals everyday.

Just about the only active politician who stands a chance of knowing what to do is, ironically enough, Osinbajo, who is stuck playing apologist for a decrepit, half-educated old man out of loyalty, even as he is fully aware of the unfitness of his boss for the office he clings on to. We know Osinbajo has what it takes because we've seen him in action in the past, when in a few weeks he did more than Buhari had accomplished in a year, and we've also seen him say all the right things when sent to do roadshows for foreign investors. Unfortunately, Nigeria is a sh*thole country full of sh*thole voters who are ruled by tribal and religious sentiments, so even though Osinbajo would clearly be a far better president than any of the alternatives on offer, the best the country can hope for is 4 more years of drift under the incompetent and senile Buhari, 4 wasted years simply so "the north" can say it has had its "turn", even though said "turn" will have impoverished the northern masses even more than their southern counterparts.

If Nigeria weren't run on the basis of tribalism, those northern masses would realize that having large numbers of young, successful programmers in the south bringing in lots of hard US$ would be good for them as well, as it would mean more tax revenues for the Nigerian state to fund development in the north, as well as more demand for the agricultural products the north has a comparative advantage in. They would appreciate that a competent southerner who fostered such a development would be far better for them than a useless old man of "integrity" who refuses to even tell them what illness he spent so many months away in London being treated for, and under whom the everyday corruption that they must deal with has not declined even one iota. But most Nigerians are tribalistic fo.ols, so none of these obvious ideas will register, and the country is doomed to 4 more years of declining GDP per-capita as Buhari continues his fruitless chase for oil in the north.

Reading your post gives me slight hope. That we have cerebral people left in this place

Ethiopia is the fastest growing economy on the continent of africa. They produce coffee. No, not oil, COFFEE!

Buhari should be enlightened.

We, the south west should boycott buhari if we are wise oh

Forget his "integrity" image, it is clear the man is confused! I supported him because of the bandwagon effect, and I knew Jonathan was lacking some leadership qualities. But I think Jonathan had a better economic team!

Anyway, I believe it is time for buhari to go. And I was once a fan. Its sad

I just wish you brothers could see the potential beauty in our unity and diversity, variety of cultures/civilizations.

Kenstufez:
Much beautiful than what we have now.

There used to be law and order and the citizens were forced to abide by them or attract penalty. That was the simple magic to we see on the pics!

We all have a role to play on sanitatizing our environment in one way or the order, let's not wait for the government to do it all!!

We can start by proper disposal of satchets and plastic water. That would go a long way!!

The average Nigerian no send

davidnazee:
Hahaha. Yoruba that is synonymous with weakness that you compare to mighty Benin. If Oyo or Yoruba is strong why then is Yoruba always regarded as WEAK? It’s a trait you guys possess.
On the other hand Benin is synonymous with strength and might.

You call Oyo an empire but yet it’s influence was only towards its western side. An empire should spread in all directions.
Benin’s influence spread to North (Igalas), East(Igboland), West (Yorubaland up to Togo).. that is a true empire.

Lastly how come all notable historical African heroes who resisted imperial whiteman are from Benin kingdom (Niger-Delta) but Yoruba as big and strong like u claim couldn’t resist..

Please Yoruba you guys shud continue to hug your weakness and leave Edo alone.

Your words attempt to make me disappointed and ashamed of my ancestry but it failed because the Yoruba culture has so much good in it that I am proud of

Your words will also not make me hateful to Benin kingdom, A civilization I’m equally proud of.

I will take solace in the fact that you are not the spokeperson of Edo people and there might be progressive people from Benin who also admire my civilization and culture

The people on this thread are well read progressive minds, we should be linking up to share, build, create and prosper, not tear eachother down with insults and abuses

davidnazee:
You are just a pained liar. No matter how much u distort the truth it can never be changed.
Benin conquered and ruled Yoruba.. that is a fact.

How many towns were existing in the 15th century? All villages/settlements/towns in East of Ife were under Benin.

The Yorubas has always been a conquered tribe.. Nupe conquered and ruled you for 100yrs till mighty Benin kingdom came to your aid and drove out the Nupes and reinstalled the Oyo monarchy. If not for Benin you will be speaking Nupish today.
Fulanis defeated and still rule Yoruba till today.

Your Oba Akanbi of Owo has changed to a Muslim Emir Mohamadu Akanbi.

You seem knowledgeable but there was no need for the insults

I for one, a Yoruba man, view Benin kingdom with a lot of pride. I have a respect for what our fathers accomplished there

I do pray people move around this country more. And out of the county also

A clannish supremacist mindset is not the best way to live.

I for one am proudly a Yoruba son, but I am also proud of Benin kingdom, as a black man I can appreciate our collective heritage. Why can’t you do same ?

Y0ruba:
Despite your logic here being unapplicable considering your references are inter-continental, I’ll take you on the ride nonetheless.

The British conquered her immediate environment and spread out to New world, then India and Africa. And at the time it was the world’s unrivaled naval power that threw its weight around Western Europe.

Spain conquered her environment and spread out when it was an imperial power. At a point, Spain ruled Italy and was stretching. This was around the Age of Discovery.

During Renaissance & Reformation, France was tearing German states apart and was consolidating itself as an empire in the long haul.

Ottoman conquered its environment and spread its tentancle into Eastern & Western Europe ans North Africa.

Oyo Empire conquered Western Yorubalands and took immediate towns of Popo, Sabe, Alaketu and Dahomey and then moved on to Togo next.

An empire is not surrounded by independent states while having dependencies far off in pocket places. Na kingdom be that.

Very convincing argument here

Do you however agree that Benin was most mighty in Nigeria at the time the white man came?

The Portuguese seemed to have a lot of respect for Benin

It’s like we the yorubas didn’t reach our potential thanks to the fulanis and in fighting like kiriji ?

I will say though that it’s probable Oyo was stronger militarily than Benin, we controlled larger swathes of landmass, the whole present day replubic of Benin was paying tribute to Alaafin at some point

Oyo also tried to conquer Benin three times and failed

Which led to the treaty of ogbohu?

All Nigerians are pure rolyalty though, it’s so sad people are ignorant of this glorious heritage

Y0ruba:
1. Ehen, please provide references to peered review articles of Archeology to back your claim up and I will concede. Several studies abound on Ife, Owo, Esie and Bini arts and guess what? Ife is regarded as the oldest of all. However, I will wait to learn something new from you. So please, share references.

2. Your point about bead seemed very aggressive. I was talking about the importance of bead use in the palace at different stages. Ife used it first and Benin adopted it royally much later when coral beads flooded coastal trades.

3. Benin became an Empire around 17th century, the same time Oyo had already reached its peak of expansion. How again did Bini conquer Yoruba? Owo is Yoruba’s border town to Bini but Bini never conquered Owo, it could not. Bini only occupied pockets of areas, small areas. It was not a military power outside of Edoid groups & their areas such as Esan, Auchi & so on. Outside Edo areas, it was not a power.

You are the more convincing of all the scholars here because you give references to your claims

Y0ruba:
1. Yes, you will find several texts on this on googlebooks. Many of the Ife works have been dated to 10th C while Bini have been mostly around 15th C. For Ife, look up Ade Obayemi’s works; for Benin, look up PC Lloyd & Bradbury’s works. For a somewhat comparative study, see Suzanne Preston Blier, Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power, and Identity, c.1300

2. Early Yoruba scholars agreed that Ife was a foremost Yoruba kingdom/empire that controlled vast lands until Owu and Oyo emerged. Ife was known for its monarchy & trade. Frobenius recorded to have heard of Ife in as far as Mali when he wrote his work between 1910 & 1913. However, archeologists have unearthed Ife glass beads in Mali & modern day Burkina Faso. This politico-economic status of Ife influenced the expansionist actions of Ife princes & commoners in other towns where they led or played important political roles. Most Ife princes/commoners who went to other towns met peoples and socio-political structures on ground - for example there was Oloyo who founded Oyo whose position Oranmiyan assumed for a shortwhile to stabilize the kingdom, same thing he did in Bini. Ajero, Alara, Owa Obokun, Ogboru, Maye, Alaketu, Onipopo, Orangun & so on subsumed systems on ground. Oranmiyan did the same in Bini when he warred with a certain Bini group - if he was ‘invited’, how come he had difficulty ruling them? Have you also wondered why Ife was a major bead trading center (like Lagos is right now) and Bini use beads royally, something not produced in their domain?

I’ll go now.

Cheers and pardon typos.

Ife’s significance is greatly underplayed then

I used to think the benin’s Birthed that civilization or it came from the Far East

But you have presented some interesting points

Thanks again

Y0ruba:
I would cite sources for my statement here but I just got off work and I’m not in the mood to scrape through books right now.

1. If the scribbles on the obelisk were close to Aramaic or Greek then the content of the doodle would have been unraveled. In conclusion, archeologists from Frank Wilket, W. Fagge & Ade Obayemi to mention didn’t know what language it is despite years of studying and no one knows till date.

2. Inscriptions and nails pinned into the obelisk have nothing to do with ‘east’. A visit to certain compounds in Ife like Ile Opa and Frobenius work, one would know these obelisks abound in Ife with different sizes and doodles on them. It shows at a point in Ife art, obelisk making was a trend that was local and had nothing to do with ‘east’.

3. Well, you’ll need to read up on pages of NL to as far back as 2009/2010. Oduduwa’s matter has been thrashed. Furthermore, ‘near east’ origins of Oduduwa is Oyo history which stemmed from Islam’s grasp on the Oyo throne with an attendant origin in the Middle East - see J.D.Y Peel’s work on Christianity, Islam & Orisa Religion. (The same was Ketu & Egba have their own narratives about the man).

4. Oduduwa’s progenitors came from Ife in Oke-Ora. His real name was Osin-Ora. See This is Ile Ife by Eluyemi, Ife the Genesis of Yoruba Race by Ademakinwa, The Constitutional History of Ife Ooyelagbo by M.A. Fabunmi, This is Ile-Ife by M.A Makinde & A History of Yoruba by Prof. Akintoye S.A to mention a few

5. Dierk Lange was a German. He wrote ‘Ancient Kingdoms of West Africa: African-centered and Canaanite-Israelite Perspectives; a Collection of Published and Unpublished Studies in English and French’ in which he collapsed the paper you cited in. Read up on Hamitic Hypothesis and its status since the 20th C - I wanted to cite a work that dealt with it but I am exhausted already.

I think you are a scholar

And I concede defeat in this case.

I have a question

Have the ife heads vs Benin heads been carbon dated ?

I need to know which of the two kingdoms is more ancient

Why did the Benins ask for a Yoruba man to come be their king?

This is some thought provoking stuff you presented, I will research those references

Thank you !

Evablizin:


Cute baby,omo see lips.

Ah, madam easy oh!

It’s too early

winterfell007:
Omo see fresh legs for a 'mummy'

Pervert lol

It will feel weird calling my lover, “Alex” in bed

Y0ruba:
People just enjoy conjuring nonsense or spreading rumour. Abeg which Opa Oranmiyan has aramaic on it. I am in Ife and would like for you to tell me what part of the obelisk it is written on. Also, what part of the palace is the aramaic book kept and who is in charge of it. I have access to the palace and know people to ask.

I am waiting.

“Oranmiyan was a great warrior and he had a sword. At the point of his death, he dropped the sword and it transformed into the staff as we see it today. The marks you see on it are letters that some scholars said have close relationship with Greek letters.”

http://thenationonlineng.net/myths-surrounding-oranmiyan-staff/

Those are some myths surrounding the obelisk

However the inscriptions on it are from the near east .. Greek, Aramaic like lettering

I am open to learning more if this is false.

Opa Oranmiyan to the Yoruba, staff of Orion to the Greeks

Odduduwa’s progenitors came from the near east

Read Samuel johnson’s Book

Also check out “the origin of the Yoruba and the lost tribes of israel” by Belgian anthropologist dierke Lange

zlantanfan:
I have concern for the boy too, but if you ask him or his parents they don't see anything wrong just that they want the immediate money that enables them buy the next kunu.

Talk about education or lasting solution for that boy, they would almost skin you including the boy himself.

The same way gej was pumping money for schooling their almajiris not knowing they were their for the free meals and not the school.

I have lived amongst this idiots, they are made to be like that even when they emigrate from north to southern cities they would spend years and still not know how to say come in English even pidgin sef, but they expect you to be communicating to them in Hausa, (they see southerns as infidels and so there is a deliberate attempt to be like that). Poverty, dirtiness, illiteracy, backwardness, intolerance, violence is their nature but our educated illiterates southerners would be giving them attention.

The north would forever remain that way, if you can just observe their level of primitivism in southern cities where life has evolved how much more in their cave states.

The earlier southerns start to think for themselves the better

Really sad what is going on in the North

Those brothers had royal cities in ancient times

Songhai, Zaria, Kano

bleeped up

babayinka77:
Blame all the governments, State and federal (past or present) who despite all allocated funds from our resources couldn't make any meaningful changes in the land. No meaningful infrastructures and even they can not provide 'stomach infrastructures'. the only thing they are good at is to start forming 'collation of thieves' and 'thief force'. God will punish all those that have hands in bringing this country to this bad state, those that stole our common wealth and caused our nation to bleed. God will punish those behind all the killings in the land (Boko Haram and headers/farmers crisis). God will forgive our country and bless us with a leadership that will turn things round for good in this nation.

I heard some people praying this same prayer 5 years ago

I don’t think God will come down and kill the oppressors for us

OlaoChi:
opa Oranmiyan marked in Aramaic?? Oduduwa came with a book?
Never heard this

You can look up pictures of the staff on google

No need for argument on the history because we do not and cannot know for sure

For example, why is oranmiyan’s staff, Opa oranmiyan, marked in Aramaic ? And why did Oduduwa come with a book written in aramaic which is still present in ife ?

I guess we cannot know for sure

TheUpsetGirl1:
why I'm I even replying.. pass out

Exactly

No hard feelings

TheUpsetGirl1:
Funny enough, clowns like you don't have upto 2m but you're here calling hardworking guys that can boast of more than 10m broke.


Social media has given some people a godly face indeed.

Everybody is a king behind keyboard

True. Anyone can assume any personality on the internet

But I try not to disrespect people. Online or offline

Keep doing what u do

steveosaz:
Good of you.

This brother of yours is a genetic mistake. Spewing hubris all over.

We are all brothers

Shugavee:
just be you!!!! That test won't still guarantee a successful marriage

I know dudes who don’t care

Even if the girl is the flashy type that likes u spending on her

As long as she’s loyal, he will spoil her

It is broke niggas who think their couple tens of millions (if even) is a fortune girls want to die for

Maybe some hungry girls Dey sha

I no know every

Shugavee:
lol really, he loss too!! Me leaving him with his boss money won't kill me!!! So because u hv money u be testing me?? Nonsense!! Is me that does not hv money abi?? Or my family r probably poor so i be rushing n gushing to marry a liar like him!! Sorry dear I wont

Nigerian niggas overrate bank

I have a lot of respect for Nigerian women actually

Some Nigerian women will actually turn u down if you think your wealth guarantees you access to the promised land

Just be you. The highest na no

Even at no I still show them love and respect

When they expected me to throw shade for getting turned down

Some are shocked by the maturity