₦airaland Forum

bolaino: brother uyi, i respect your opinions alot, and i know that deep down inside you, you know that there is God, but you cam not reconcile the idea of God with what is happening around us today, but i want to assure you that there are answers to all your questions about life, and these answers are'nt found in atheistic journals or articles, the answers to your questions are found in the bible, i know you've mentioned earlier that you plan on reading the entire bible, i would encourage you to do that, and i would love for you to start with the gospel of john after you've finished reading john proceed to the book of revelation and pls brother read these books with an open mind, and if after you've finished reading them you still do not have answers to your questions, i won't disturb you on nairaland again.

lol. Bolaino have you read the bible through from Genesis to Revelation. . . With an open mind?

Reyginus: Don't even go there. Is a finite being a robot or a software bereft of freewill, to begin with?

lol. The freewill question. Anyway, my question was one of ability, not of will. That i want to drive a private jet doesn't mean i can do it. Do you get my point?

^^^
When i was little they used to call it World Cup in my area then.

Logicboy03: Wouldnt it be funny if you ended up divorced and I ended up being married "till death do us part"?


Relationships are never straightforward.........keep assuming stuff about me.....


The funny thing is that your comment got two likes, yet no one on NL knows my personal life......

lol. Bros cool down, I'm not married. My previous statement followed from your admission that you have never dated for long. It has nothing to do with marriage and divorce, more to do with learning how to apologise even when you're right.

And why are you so piqued about 'likes'?

onyfrank: hahaha. God is Life. He never dies.

Oh! You're God now too?

https://i.imgur.com/sfEziFV.png

Nice logic

bolaino: lol, you just cracked me up mr troll, LB pls pick and choose wisely, even me sef no com understand again, i thought only catholics believed in purgatory, sister tex pls explain more for clarification.

i wasn't referring to LB per se. i was explaining to him. figure that out.

onyfrank: atheist?

you're still alive? its a miracle!!!

Ihedinobi: Lol. Then I'm as guilty of circular reasoning as you are. If you can assume that it was a robot that was created with a fixed programming - the same position that you're trying to prove - I can assume that it wasn't a robot with a fixed programming too, can I not? Fair's fair

But of course, omniscience is certain knowledge of everything not probable knowledge of everything, I get that. But I just worked with scales, you can appreciate that, right? I can prove a matter about omniscience to you using a reduced scale of probable knowledge, can I not?

no. the robot use was an example. you switch the word robot, for a man if you like.

you cannot prove omniscience using a reduced scale. by doing that, you are deviating from the true meaning of omniscience. your use of all possible outcomes will not cut it here, my friend.

Ihedinobi: Lol. Since when can I not prove it?

I'm curious though. How does the fact that we can develop what moral codes we please prove that there is no objective moral code? And, in fact, HOW have we ever developed moral codes? Have huma beings ever developed moral codes that do not attempt to draw authority from something even conceptually greater than humans?

oh! by all means prove it.

and while you are at it, tell me how a real secular state runs and where they draw their authority and laws from.

Ihedinobi: Dude, the law of the land is an example. It may deal with domestic issues comprehensively or it may not. Regardless, in the things that it does deal with as comprehensively as possible, it will end conflicts.

No, no one needs to agree with any standard for it to be objective. I may disagree with the law of the land that killing a man in cold blood is wrong or a crime, but if I do it, ideally, the law will apply to me the full consequence of my actions.

A standard is objective because the entity that produced it knows better than the entities upon whom it is binding. Thus, the law of Nigeria is the standard regardless how any given inhabitant of the country is feeling on a given day. This is because ideally the senate that produced it is supposed to be smarter than everyone else and know everything about everything concerning Nigeria.

The bare existence of a universal moral code is not what resolves conflicts. Some will interpret the code one way, others will interprt it another. The conflicts will end when the person who made the code shows up and explains it and shows everyone where they are right and wrong about it.

the problem here is that you cannot even prove the existence of this universal being. so your claim of universal moral code is standing on uncertain ground, at least to every other person who doesn't subscribe to your worldview.

we humans make our own moral code. this is self evident bros. study your history properly.

Joshthefirst: sorry, I didn't see this post before I made the other one. I won't argue with you. Never mind my questions.

thank you.

Joshthefirst: the bolded is where your problem lies.

God has given man the ability to make a free choice. As I said before, his omniscient knowledge does not infringe on mans ability.

The ability you speak of, is freewill itself, and it does not enable or monopolize man to make God's choice. THE CHOICE IS GOD's NOT MANS. Freewill is the ability to choose.

Omniscience is the knowledge of the final choice. Both of them are exclusive.

bros, I've told you. Stay away from my posts. don't argue with me. I have no time to entertain your foolish logic.

rationalmind: If you really can't see the problem with the bolded, anyone trying to reply you is just wasting his time. You won't still see it

you are wasting your time with him. he spews contradictory statements left, right, and center and yet can't see it even if you show it to him.

Ihedinobi: You made a robot. You programmed it to act in a fixed way. That is the source of your omniscience. That is why your robot has no free will.

God created man, not a robot. If we can use the programming logic, then man was programmed to program himself, that is, man is a self-writing program, one that is able to delete codes in itself, rewrite itself and reinvent itself as many times as allowed by its run-life. God is just the super-smart programmer who knows all the possible alternatives that the program (man) can choose and knows which a given program will choose because He knows every possible property of the program.

I think it's really simple. I don't have to program anything to know with 100% accuracy what it will do. I just need to know everything possible about it and the environment it operates in. That information related correctly mathematically will tell me, a finite being, what exactly a being I have NO control over will do in any particular situation.

We do this in probability classes all the time. I shouldn't need to write a long lecture about it.


I'm sure you know what you know. I also know what I know. When I don't know I declare that I don't or refrain from offering an opinion. I won't claim ignorance when I do know something, bro.

@bold, this is circular reasoning my friend. you cannot assume the position you are trying to prove, in this case that Man is not a robot with an illusion of freewill.

omniscience is not a case of knowing all the possible outcomes. it is knowing, with certainty what action the being will take. and being the creator of said being, also implies giving the being the ability to do what you already know it will do....

Ihedinobi: Actually it doesn't. Men around the world right this minute are being given very deadly skills to protect their fellow countrymen. Those skills can also be turned around to harm their fellow countrymen and some of those men do turn them around so. Does the fact that they do mean that the state made them murderers?

at least the state is not omniscient. do you know what omniscience means?

Danhumprey: I have noticed that about her. I guess the OP and others crying for her to be remove are not being selfish after all. I thought it was because she is a lady and hence the cry for her removal.

well, this thread is pointless anyway. it won't work. the admin hardly listens to requests of MOD removal, even with evidence.

^^^
@Ihe, he also made us. so whatever ability we have to do anything was given to us by him. knowing what we will do with the ability he gave us to do it implicitly contradicts whatever notion we have of freewill.

Danhumprey: Why do you people persist in harassing and persecuting HumbledByGrace? Is it because she is a lady and a non-Nigerian?


She has her reasons for whatever actions she take on this Forum! Respect that.

No. Jesoul was respected. HBG is simply irrational, cantankerous, petulant, and biased.

Logicboy03: I dont do relationships.....the dark knight Flies solo.....


On a serious note....i dont do long relationships....last gf was a few months duration.....aint looking for marriage

no wonder. you lack the experience

Logicboy03: Wrong......i dont date foolish babes.

It seems dat u date ishilove type of babe.

hehehehe. you don de call her name now. how long was the longest time you stuck with one babe?

Ihedinobi: I always pretend to be ignorant? Lol. How? You don't expect me to simply swallow whatever you say as true, do you? Aren't you irreligious folks the ones who insist that we should use our brains and ask questions?

If you know how one sentient being's knowledge can directly cause another to act in a particular way, please tell me and let me lose my "ignorance" or any excuse I have to pretend to it.

ok...

Say i'm a programmer and I make a robot that can move form point A to point B through point C,D, and E. omniscience requires that I fully know that the robot must move from A to B through C,D and E. if I then now say that the robot has 'freewill', that it can choose to go from A to B through any other route. is this not a mockery of so called freewill? I already know how the robot will move. saying the robot has freewill is simply laughable because no matter that the robot thinks it is making a conscious choice to move from A to B through C,D, and E, it is only doing what it has been programmed to do. if the robot passes through another route, it simply implies that either I , the maker am really not omniscient with respect to the robot or that I actually didn't make the robot because if make something and have omniscience then I totally KNOW all what the robot will do and the ability to do what it will do was put there by me. so pls tell me how Gods Omniscience and my 'Freewill" can go together.


I know you are quite intelligent but you can't pull off this type of sophistry. you can simply say you don't know. it takes nothing away from your belief in Yahweh.

Alfa Seltzer: maybe NL should make a list of deities we are allowed to worship.

trouble maker.

Logicboy03: What does this have to do with babes?

with babes, you have to apologise many times even when you know you are right. its obvious you don't have a babe

Ihedinobi: GeneralShepherd, how does what I know about you make you do anything? How does God's knowledge of what you will do cause you to do anything? Help me establish a clear cause-effect relationship here.

how can you in good conscience always pretend to be ignorant in order to defend your god?

@Josh, I would have quoted your reply to me but i'm afraid it is too far off now. Advice, pls refrain from infecting my posts with your foolish and re'tarded logic. I have told you before that you lack the common sense and rationality to debate atheists. until you improve pls don't try to engage me.



As for the argument about the fall of man, Adam and Eve are mythological beings. they didn't exist and I don't know why I should base my argument on a false premise from the bible that we had a perfect first human pair of which there is no evidence of. it is simply stupid and ignorant. man has continually improved right from antiquity. history proves it, physical evidence abound. the bible is full of bullshyt and lies. most of its scientific claims are simply false. if you, Josh want to debate science with me pls keep your bible away. thank you....

Logicboy03: You dont see how he betrayed me?
He thought that I did something wrong?



You clearly are talking nonsense because you dont even know what happened. Muskeeto knows what he did.


Muskeeto betrayed me and he apologised. End of story.

You are just trying to bé relevantr in this issue

shut up LB. you sure say you go fit manage babe at all?

Reyginus: Yes. Ofcourse.
But I see nothing wrong in man having himself to be blamed for standing in the way of God.

so man, a finite being can actually stand in the way of an infinite God?

Eze Promoe: [color=crimson]Exactly what I asked myself.

But I got my answers already.

They are inferior chaps who delight in causing rampage in the church just like the coward-in-chief satan [/color]

boring, boring. *yawn*

Logicboy03: How??

How is that possible if you arent a catholic?

Pick and choose LB, pick and choose.

texanomaly: You are not a wicked person. You used to be nice to me. What happened?

Me? when

texanomaly: Why do you want me to have a headache?

beacuse i'm a wicked person

its in the bible, Psalm 14;1