₦airaland Forum

all4naija: And, lost 13 men. If it continues that way without fleeing as they did you will be loosing all your men to the 3000 rebel forces with 30 of their men still alive. Hehehe....

Who waved the white flag first was it SA or 3000 Seleka rebels? Surely SA were willing to fight with everything they had, but unfortunately Seleka rebels raised the flag as many of their soldiers fell due to limited ammunition. Rebels do not have resources as always and many of them would only carry single magazine without any refills. Once is depleted you must take cover and see if you must will survive or not, the small boys were yelling and crying for help pleading with our soldiers not to kill them. It is there for everyone to see, the world knows about it. The truth is we killed as close to 500, our soldiers have even remarked that they have lost count of how many of them did they kill as many of rebels were trying to take cover and did not have any ammunition left. One disadvantage about AK47 is that it waste ammunition unnecessarily.

agaugust: .


[size=20pt]New Top 10 Military Rankings For African Countries.
[/size]


1. Egypt....best armed forces combined

2. South Africa....best infantry soldiers, second best artillery and modern APC/IFV after egypt, best and largest coastal and inland water Navy in the whole world, best battle/war unbeatable record, second best helicopter gunship force after egypt, best battle/war unbeatable record

3. Algeria....good all round armed forces, but not best position in any aspect.

4. Ethiopia....good battle/war records second to nigeria

5. Nigeria....best weapons manufacturing but poor combat/war records

6. Eritrea, Kenya, Uganda, Angola, Morroco....all 5 tie same position with above average armed forces.


https://www.infonigeria.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Nigerian_Army.jpg
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Good boy you are now growing up, but note; Don't use bold and big letters because they mean shouting, haven't they taught you that at school. Empty tin makes a lot of noise.

all4naija: Doesn't this just affirmed what we have been saying? SA is known for showing off well polished military hardware. CAR incidence put a big hole in your military prowess recently.

That is where you are wrong, it's not the government who upload those videos on youtube. Anybody can upload those videos on youtube, particularly SA soldiers who capture all the footages with their cellphone while they are on training.

About the issue of CAR, our militants have not gone to CAR to fight their purpose was to train CAR soldiers as the government of CAR requested and did not even carry heavy weapons with them at the time, heaven knows those rebels are not our match to engage in war. I guess only few gripons and 3 gunships (Rooivalk) would have done the job. We are a much bigger country with better resources than Seleka rebel, should we have waged war against them, the whole of Africa would have been against us for advanced imperialism in that land. I have read that various media claiming that SA has left their military vehicles behind running for cover, that is not only untrue but seeks to drag the name of SA in the mud. There was no even a single vehicle of SA in CAR, all the vehicles that SA used in CAR belong to the government of CAR. Leaving of uniforms behind, happens all the time, even in peaceful deployment soldiers leave their torn and wornout uniform behind.

[quote author=agaugust][/quote]Agaugust don't try to polarise South Africa, Here in SA we do not treat one another as black and white. It doesn't matter whether a white policeman arrest a black man or the opposite.

zaandrew: Did you for get the part where they used thos less lethal sytems. And the rioters ignored them. So you would hide in a armourd car and let the rioters free. You do know that the mine was a long way away from any major city. The nearst help was the army and they don't do less lethal. Your response here shows you not in touch with reality.


Proscutors are not cops. Where do you come up with that lie.

No the media blams the police and ANC. If they had asked the people down by me(most of whom are black) they would have been told the miners where stupid. And they where.

Just imagine, since when did prosecutors become police men, perhaps it's a case in Nigeria. Prosecutors are professional lawyers appointed by the state to prosecute offenders on their behalf under a state administration body. In SA the prosecution body is called NPA, which is state agency utilising magistrate houses (courts) which are independent from the government to prosecute offenders.

My fellow countryman, I have pronounced myself that this man "Aguagust" has a serious mental condition. His brain cortex is eaten up and oh! hell I don't know by what, only his God knows. He is a disgrace to ALL4NAIJA and the whole of NIGERIA at large. I used to blame Nigeria for no reason, thinking that country is cursed for not producing the so called THINK TANKS, but I was proved wrong by the proud Nigerian born ALL4NAIJA, thus I have drawn conclusion that Aguagust is sick and must be treated as such.

agaugust: . I am so dumb, because aspects that I could not see in Marikana case are, inter alia, as follows below.

1. Prior the actual incident, two police officers and security guards were hacked to death by Marikana miners while trying to intervene.

2. Carrying of blunt object in public and illegal gathering is a crime in South Africa.

3. The miners charged at police, reportedly under the impression that they were invincible from a traditional ritual that they performed hours before.

4. The victims were all men who killed carrying weapons, unlike in Nigeria were children and women were among the victims and worst of it all were carrying nothing.

5. Atleast in SA, the commission was established by the president to investigate what really happened that situation ended in tragedy and who's at fault, the police or the miners. This is not the case in Nigeria, families of the victims will just have to live with it without any compensation or knowing as to what really happened that their beloved ended up dead.


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Good boy, now you starting to reason with your brain and not your head.

[/i]

all4naija: [i]This is what I fairly understand about Nigerian justice system for committing petty crimes.

I will try to answer your questions accordingly and as follows:

1. Common assault like slapping depends on how it is committed and on what condition. If it's reported as assault then it must be treated as such. I believe the same applies to SA.

2. Passing out water in public places used to be a serious crime in the past(during the Operation Clean the Nation - which I read somewhere in the past)and huge fee were paid by anybody who breaks the law. At present, it is said to depend on the public place and how open it is. Maybe SA is way strict in this area than Nigeria with the provision of many street-level restaurants and eateries providing access to the public.

3. When has public drinking becomes a crime at all in a free world? The inability to control your self of what you consume would make you liable to committing crime when drunk. So a drunk who goes of his way is taunted and can be arrested as well by the police. I don't know any about SA on drinking. I can say most Nigerians are relatively controllable under the influence of alcohol.

4. The Nigerian society is still far from developed as in developed nation so people are used to carrying sharp objects around, even, in the cities. The local Fulanis carry sharp knives called dagger tied around their necks. When used it is culpable or punishable as such.

5. Stock theft is highly taken serious in Nigeria. One might lose his or her life for stealing something as petty as fish,tomatoes, shoes or glasses. There is sentence for it in the Nigerian legal system, I guess.

6. On advanced fraud, that is gravely culpable. The reason why we have EFCC implemented to look into it with serious detailing of information provided. It is a huge crime in Nigeria. 419 has crippled activities like Cybercafes, Computer centers, telephone call shops many folded due to the fear of been caught and brought to book. And, has given bad image to the nation as well.

On the final note, these activities are subjective and it is not so much different from what I think is happening in SA.

There is a great sense of underlying uncertainty in your response. It is apparent that you are unsure about how each situation is handled in Nigeria. I have articulated and have made a submission that at university as students we have conducted an extensive research about how each situation is handled in developed nations vs developing economies. In Africa we have purposefully chosen countries whose economies were promising and our choice as well were largely based upon the fact that we had students from various countries we have randomly chosen.

In Sub-Saharan Africa, most particular the west Africa our choice was Ghana and Nigeria because of the large numbers of students studying law in SA from those countries. In the North, we have preferred Egypt and Algeria, some Central and Southern African countries were among our choice. First and for all, first things first, we had to acquire constitutions of those countries and conduct our research.

In those countries, in particular Nigeria, Ghana, Kenya, Uganda we have found out that petty crimes are not properly documented. I have seen you have said that public drinking in Nigeria is dependent upon the factor of self-restraint after drinking. Public drinking on its own is a crime, it doesn't matter you are able to handle yourself responsibly or not.

Stock theft in Nigeria, ie, stealing of livestock, ends up in traditional courts and misses out to be properly documented and recorded with international crime statistics. Passing of water in public in Nigeria is overlooked as crime and police can thus peacefully pass you while you are easing yourself in public places. Paying of advance fee used not to be treated as crime in Nigeria and officials at airports accepted it with a smile in their faces without any guilty conscience. The list is endless.

all4naija: How you quickly point to your records for minor crimes and expected Nigerians not recording theirs is still a challenge to me. In fact every case reported to the police in Nigeria is first put on paper as statement before any legal proceeding or otherwise. This applies to but those taken to the cell and those caught disobeying the laws before taken to court. I don't actually know where you are getting the information that petty crimes are not culpable in Nigeria.

However, the failure of the Nigerian society to fully put their trust on the police has been lost for long time now and that contributes to the martial court passing of justice by ordinary citizens. That are mostly seen in poor and crime ridden areas. Like in the North, with its recent Islamic ideology, to be responsible for the interpretation of the law many have taken to such barbaric act of applying Sharia in few cases, where lashing have to be upheld. Notwithstanding, against this very primitiveness this has helped to bring a sense of something to them as what has been done to reduce the increase in crimes. Whereas on the other way round they are taking the law into their own hands and are usually done without the police awareness or with the police around. It is one of the reason Nigeria crime rate is seen as having many facets. That make crimes to be on the increase above what should be treated as a crime as a whole.

It is palpable one can easily be manhandled or leashed by the public for stealing cheap object in Nigeria than in SA. In the public eyes this makes things look out of place and the society to look criminally riddled with people of such bad inclinations. I totally disagree with you that Nigeria should be included among the nations which don't take records of their petty criminals or crimes.

Believe me, I have done extensive study on that. Some of the petty crimes are overlooked in Nigeria, for instance, how does Nigeria treat the following under-mentioned cases;

1. Common assault, ie, slapping
2. Pissing in public
3. Public drinking
4. Being in possession of blunt object
5. Stock theft
6. Advancement fees

Those might only be few, but there is plenty more.

agaugust: Rules of war are NOT always followed. Israel breaks rules of war regularly in Palentine and kills innocent civilians to protect Israeli national interest and United Nations did nothing about it.

America breaks rules of war regularly in Iraq and Afghanistan and the whole world does not stop them because we all know they killed innocent civilians not intentionally but in national interest of America.

Nothing new in civilian deaths during military action except you live in a bush village and you don't read the news or watch Tv.


The more you Nigerian talk, the more you sound like half brains . Lol

I have already decreed that your comments must always be condemned and be reduced to the level of an adolescent trying to prove himself a man. You are just a school boy who likes to play taunting games with people way above your class and unfortunately we are too old for that. We have only spared our energies for people with high volume of IQ, thus who always reason with their brains and not their head. Up to so far, the only person who impressed me is ALL4NAIJA. This guy looks into issues in three dimension and approaches them with logic.

all4naija: Classified as to how grave an issue and that is now an evidence people are not being beheaded in your society. Google is your friend, pal. When I mean YOU in my previous comment I mean the THIRD person. It could be any South African posting in this forum and including you. If I didn't express myself well with the third person I apologize to you for choosing to use it imperatively.

Ideally, I would expect something explanatory than this ritual Pandora's box that you are trying to open. In no too distant time an Albino was beheaded for witchcraft in your country. Isn't a ritual intended? You are very fond of painting things bad with lopsidedness and that we have seen in most of your comments. That is what is very shady in this your comment. When did beheading of people carried out in Nigeria for Islamic purposes? That I have not read about nor head people talking about it since the beginning of their nefarious Islamic attacks on innocent people. Your comment is arguably misleading in that case.

It is this present Islamic religion infiltration and the MEND incidence that now make SA to look stabled than Nigeria. In the few past years or so the country witnessed internal troubles and was labelled one of the most unstable nations of the world. Yet, it is still a high crime region of the world. Even higher than Nigeria, although, with all the internal disturbances of MEND and Boko Haram.

Terrorist activities cannot be classified as crime, that's why in most countries such activities are prosecuted under military law by military courts. It is, however, an undisputed fact though that Nigeria has high incidence of terrorists activities for which SA has none. Well, SA has a high rate of crime because even petty crimes, such as shoplifting, stock theft, common assault, public indecency, etc are documented accordingly and put on record with Crime-SA. Not all countries in Africa (Nigeria included) do that and many of such countries do not even classify petty crimes under criminal procedures. In most cases you will find that such crimes when committed are only punishable with lashes on the buttocks. SA during apartheid adopted the same administration of criminal justice system and protective services, where offenders would only pay for their sins by just only being punished by electrocution or few lashes on the back and leave the cop shop without that crime being documented. For your information I have studied law as my second-first degree.

patriot4: I am indeed a fool.

That is a true statement indeed.

all4naija: How does this now clear what is happening in your society? It is your society that claimed to be developed and above all these manners of ills. Indeed, I am surprised at the beheading statement as though it is not happening in SA. I have seen images of worse scenes coming out of your country. It only takes google to get them available.

Please, pointing to Nigeria won't stop the troubles in your society. That is a complete fact! OR else keep your mouth shut and stopping beating your chest on how developed your country is to other African countries.

Do not feed me what I haven't said. I have never boasted or even pride myself of coming from developed society. The whole world knows that SA is not yet developed nation, thus, how dare will I ever utter such ridiculous statements. Perhaps, you are troubled by the fact that I made mention that we are far much better than Nigeria in respect of stability. In SA beheading of humankind are not something done for religion or sharia for that matter, it is classified as crime that's why such incidents remain far-fetched in our soil.

Some people here write as if there had never been any incidents of mob justice in their own country or so called jungle justice like they phrase it . We are being accused of being backward and uncivilised, but they seem to have forgotten that we only learn of the horrors of humankind from their countries. What is happening in our neighbourhood is nothing compared to what they experience in their daily lives. I have never seen anybody beheaded, but surely in Nigeria that is the order of the day. People live in fear in that country and perpetrators Scot free without being prosecuted, yet we are being accused of being uncivilised. SHAME!!!

all4naija: What a baseless excuse to say the killing justified the drug lords, smuggling and molestation in your society. I dare you prove to me how it is this particular point in time is it necessary to carry out such human hunt in your country? What had your people done in the past to fight crimes when it was at the peak of affairs?

You seem to be alluding to the fact that the crimes in your society called for the burning alive, maiming, killing and molesting of innocent foreigners in your society. It only proves your barbaric nature and the savagery that exist in SA. Mind you, killing those people is taking the laws into your own hand and that by right is unlawful, it is a crime like the drug lords, smugglers and rapists committed. With this your comment, I am beginning to see SA as a backward nation and far from being civilized in any social capacity.

What a jungle justice! A way to go by South Africans!

Let me remind you that mob justice and vigilante groups is not something new in SA. It is a tradition that had been ongoing for ages even though authorities discouraged it. During apartheid it was even worse as such actions were taken against those suspected of perpetuating gangsterism, molestation and crime. Such civil formation still exist in SA and the most famous were PAGAD and Thamaga who would take law in their own hands to address certain issues in societies. They would beat up suspected offenders to death, walk r-apists naked on the street and even burn them alive with necklaces (tires around the neck).

I therefore would not condone what they have done, wrong is wrong, no matter how hard you try to justify it. Let the authorities do their own work by handing over all criminals to the police, so that they may be prosecuted fairly.

patriot4: I would never consider being a lawyer, because lawyers have to convince slowpokes just like you.
I prefer discussing with intelligent people.
So let me explain to you as I explain to children or people like you:
The term soldier doesn't necessarily mean Nigerian soldier.
And I did admit that cases in which civilians try to protect terrorists arise and that in some cases the civilians would try to shield the terrorist hoping the soldier would therefor not shoot (which would cost the soldier his life), but no well minded soldier would give a damn of a human shield who was forced or who was shielding the terrorists on his own.
Soldiers are not scape goats, they have families, children fathers and mothers.

I can see that you are battling so hard to elucidate something to justify your vile actions, but unfortunately your explanation does not hold any substance. It lacks both in boundaries and heights and does not have any bone of contention whatsoever to bait us. You can clearly see that it is a hogwash work, half cooked and not so very convincing or reaching the standard of academia and intelligentsia at large. I have pronounced myself that I cannot see you stifling debates with intelligent people as you claim and on the contrary, I would only advice you to retract that statement, because you do not exhibit any of such properties of intelligence in reasoning. You will only be laughed at and you are only good to compete at Nigerian sphere, not anywhere above that level.

all4naija: Yet civilians in SA murdered Africans in xenophobic attacks. The burning alive of an African and killings in your country will continue to haunt your cities for years to come.

These are images below for your refreshment!

1.

[img]http://1.bp..com/_8Fr2lxa9qLI/SDbOx-DZ7iI/AAAAAAAAAIU/Oa8GNS-_ZDk/s400/xenophobia.jpg[/img]

2.

https://www.abeingo.org/images_news/south_africa_attacks.JPG

3.

[img]http://4.bp..com/_MPvswO6lxOY/SDEUhQqvpSI/AAAAAAAADoE/Rlp-gCMvao4/s400/burning5%5B1%5D.JPG[/img]

I told you that you must never ever consider studying law as a profession. Civilian formation are different from militants, not even to mention that heavily armed militants not even police who enforce order on civilians opened fire to massacre thousands of women and children. During the Xenophobic attacks in SA it was not every foreigners who were killed, only those thought to be drug lords, smugglers and human traffickers were attacked. Before the incident unfolded, there was a great concern of foreigners selling drugs to school children, having sex with them and film it on their cellphone, make the film go on viral and it was reported on newspapers on daily bases as teachers could not take it any longer from delinquent children.

The is a notion that drives the trend in this forum of consistently ascribing all positive media reports about SA as propaganda. Hence, it is very clear that we are misusing this concept of propaganda, because the last time I remember this terminology was applicable to only superpowers such as America who could influence the whole world by the art of propaganda. Surely, SA has hardly reached that level and has little influence over what the media write about their affairs. The people in this forum have a tendency of inadvertently elevating SA to the highs of superpowers who have influence over media at large. Should you have known that back home the biggest SA government enemy is the media.

The constant persecution of SA politicians by media has even prompted the ruling party (ANC) to propose and promulgate the so called information bill which opposition parties oppose vigorously and view as a threat against the media to censor jurnos not to report negatively about the government. There is freedom of press in SA to which we support and we strongly believe that our government does not have influence over our media houses. Corruption and embezzlement in public office shall always be reported without fear or favour. It was only during the epoch of apartheid where the editorial used to be held at gun point to write positively about the government in the press, but not at this generation. We always rally behind our jurnos to encourage them to always root out maladministration wherever it exist. Our jurnos have even threatened on several occasions by various politicians with lawsuits.

I therefore fail to understand how could SA employ propaganda to influence the world and what is it exactly are they hoping to achieve from it. People have wrong perceptions about SA and as a result, it has led people having grudges about the progress that SA has as compared to other African nations.

patriot4: this is what I wrote:
And this is what Msauza responded to that:

So please may I ask if it is only zaandrew and msauza who have no brains or is it all South africans.

I still cannot comprehend your point, because in your own words of admission you publicly consented to have killed families who you accused of standing barrier between the soldier and the enermy. It surely wasn't me who made such a blunderbuss statement, so who has a half brain in that instance, you or I? You must surely treat very careful when you pen to paper, so as to not convict youself. Let me tell you, don't ever consider legal profession as your career because you will cost most of your clients dearly.

patriot4: Actually you are quite wrong, Kogi is a Nigerian state and if you do not understand English then ask someone what Mali bound troops means. The soldiers were being transported to the aiport in their own country, their weapons were not in their possesion. They were moving in an area that wasn't supposed to be hostile, in their own country and were not on duty. The terrorists who ambushed them were shooting from a far location and as soon as the armed escort of the soldiers opened fire, the terrorists ran away.

AT HOME!!! Then is supposed to be worse than I thought, because it is always said that a snake is never tempered with while is in its nest (hole). It is seems to me that you are just equalled to a dog that only bucks after thieves in its own yard while lying on its belly. You are toothless for having attacked in your own backyard. The enemy has even lost respect of you for launching assault on your militants, not even civilian formation, I reiterate, a Nigerian national military formation attacked in its own land, this IS UNBELIEVABLE!!! I stand appalled

patriot4: I still quite fail to see the link between this and the combat readiness of the Nigerian army.
The Afghans used to say the same thing about US soldiers.
So please explain your point.
Our soldiers didn't run from the battle front.
So what is your point ?
The US killed more than 1000 people in the "black hawk down" event. And that was a similar situation with that of Baga.
The terrorists had infiltrated the town with their families and the rest of the people in the town were their sympathizing neighbours.
How can you save their lives when they put themselves between a soldier and a terrorist, in order to protect the terrorist ?
Moreover there was as much chadian soldiers and Nigériens soldiers(not Nigerians) than Nigerian soldiers in that conflict.

I will then gladly rubbish all those claims as cowardice by killing thousands of unarmed civilians majority of whom were women and children. Tell me do you feel proud of it and still masquerade as Rambos of Africa for having massacred little lives who had so much at stake. The future was bright before them, ofcourse they looked forward with vigor that some day they would become doctors, engineers and lawyers and their lives was unfortunately cut short by those who failed to nail down their enemy. They were sacrificed instead and their heads brandished as trophies by cowards who could not stand their equals.

I don't know if it will also be worthy of us to make noises and draw conclusions that Nigerian Army is weak, sleepy and feeble. Somewhere, early this year Nigerian Army were ambushed by rebels in Mali and failed to effectively respond to assailants who managed to get away unscathed. The deadly ambush (similar to SA's in CAR) resulted in the killing of two of their soldiers and left several few injured. The full reports are as follows.

Two Killed, Four Injured In Bomb Attacks On Mali-bound Nigerian Troops At Okene

January 19, 2013 - 16:36 — siteadmin



caption:

Ap photo of Mali-bound Nigerian soldiers in Kaduna

By SaharaReporters, New York

About 190 Nigerian troops were ambushed a few kilometers from Okene in Kogi state today. The attack took place around 6: 05 AM Nigerian time as militants cut through the convoy of Mali-bound Nigerian army peacekeepers traveling in three luxurious buses via Kaduna too Bamako, Mali. The militants decimated the convoy with the aid of IEDs planted on the highway and began firing on the troops afterwards.

The soldiers were under escort at the time and the military escorts alter returned fire, but the assailants who were parked on both sides of the highway escaped the scene after two soldiers had been killed and several others injured.

Nigerian Army spokesperson, Brigadier General Bola Koleosho confirmed to Saharareporters by phone that two soldiers were killed while the bomb explosion injured four others. The wounded soldiers are receiving treatment at the Federal Medical Center in Okene.

The attack is coming on the heels of disclosure by the Chief of Army Staff Azubuike Ihejirika last week that Mali trained Boko Haram sect militants have arrived Nigeria in large numbers to carry out attacks on various targets in the country.

Also a JTF source told SaharaReporters that Boko Haram elusive leader, Abubakar Shekau is currently in Mali receiving weapon training after sustaining injuries during a shoot out in Maiduguri last year. The source said Shekau now limps on one leg

http://mobile.saharareporters.com/news-page/two-killed-four-injured-bomb-attacks-mali-bound-nigerian-troops-okene

We'd rather die at the hands of rebels other than cowardly killing innocent civilians and yet claim to be the military giants of the continent.

Nigeria army 'opens fire on civilians' in Maiduguri

9 October 2012 Last updated at 06:32

Eyewitnesses spoke of a shooting spree by soldiers

Nigerian troops have opened fire and burned buildings in the north-eastern city of Maiduguri, reportedly killing 30 civilians.

The shootings came after a bomb blast targeting the army had injured two soldiers.

But army spokesman Lt Col Sagir Musa told the BBC that soldiers had not shot any civilians.

Maiduguri has been under siege from the militant Islamist group Boko Haram, which wants Sharia law in Nigeria.

On Sunday, the army said it killed 30 Boko Haram members in another north-eastern city, Damaturu.

Eyewitnesses in Maiduguri said soldiers began to indiscriminately open fire on residents and set fire to homes and businesses.

'Truck full of bodies'

An Associated Press reporter in the city reportedly counted 30 bodies and 50 buildings that had been set ablaze.

Unnamed nurses at the local Umaru Shehu were quoted by Reuters news agency as saying that 30 bodies in civilian clothes had been brought in, with a further five corpses in military uniforms.

"Initially, soldiers that came after the explosion harassed residents, whipping them," one person told AFP news agency.

"But later they went on a shooting spree and started setting homes and shops on fire."

Another resident said the soldiers "shot everybody in sight".

One Maiduguri resident told the BBC that a tipper truck full of bodies had been driven to the hospital.

"The bodies were dumped there like bags of cement," said the resident.

Another resident said: "When soldiers are killed, everyone is an enemy. You just have to pray you are as far as possible from the scene."

Similar reports of the security forces arresting and killing local residents following militant attacks have been made on numerous occasions during the past three years of Boko Haram violence.

The BBC's Will Ross, in Lagos, says that in the conflict between the army and Boko Haram, civilians have paid a heavy price.

Not trusted by either side, people complain that they are stuck in the middle between the bombs of Boko Haram and the bullets of the army, our correspondent says.

Col Musa confirmed earlier on Monday that two soldiers had been injured in a bomb blast targeting an army patrol vehicle in Maiduguri.

Attacks in central and northern Nigeria blamed on Boko Haram have killed some 1,400 people since 2010.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19875391

agaugust: .



[size=20pt] final proof : south african army was defeated by seleka rebels in CAR[/size]

the videos posted by @patriot4 are the real true reports proving that south african army was defeated by seleka rebels of CAR in the battle that showed the disgrace of africa's 5th ranked military power, the republic of south africa.

how do you know a true war report from a country like south africa that has long standing reputation for war lies, prpaganda and twisting of information ? the answer is to hear from neutral countries news reporters who are actually on ground and in direct contact with both sides of armies fighting the war, to give independent and unbiased report to the whole world, NOT dishonest south african news media publishing lies and self glorification.

the videos below clearly says :

[size=16pt] south african army ran away from their bases like running deer

south african army abandoned their uniforms like civilians

south african army abandoned their combat vehicles like a gift to the rebels

south african army is under french army protection at the airport like rats escaping from cats

[/size]

the videos did NOT say :

how many soldiers died or wounded on both sides

rebels raised a white flag of surrender, NO the seleka rebels rather celebrated their victory over the disgraced south african army with bottles of champagne in the photo under the videos below !




that is a good, fair, honest war report coming from news media independent and with direct contacts to the war zone.

[size=16pt] anybody posting other reports is a fraud and liar from his mama's womb [/size]

[size=20pt] south africa, accept your destiny, your military is NOT destined to be great in africa [/size]

bitter truth, swallow it, live with it. because you will NEVER be able to match Nigeris's military combat records in this century, papa God no dash you, how you go take collect am ? by juju ?

.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4VOSwvJtxM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF0gZ_Q8JQo

People like Aguagust never change, they are logical examples of how typical Nigerians are. People like him will always argue that blue is green even though it appears pretty obvious in the eyes of the whole world to see. He is still struggling even today to reason with logic and maturity and such elements should be reduced as adolescents trying to play games of taunting with mature people and must always be treated as such. It is however apparent though that he thinks that we are indeed convinced that he lives and works somewhere in American upmarket suburbs. I remain unconvinced that such characters and self-proclaimed suburban cannot be of any American kind. Agaugust is still stuck in the villages of Enugu and that's where he belongs, thus will remain there until he is buried in Nigerian soil.

This imposter-cum-American failed to exercise just a simple logic that at war, no matter how powerful you are there are always casualties. Even to the giants of this world, such as America incidents such as that are just the order of the day. The CAR incident is no different to casualties suffered by the US in both Iraq and Afghanistan and even today most women in America are widowed as a result of Americas ongoing deployment. Such incident is even no peculiar to the large casualties inflicted on Nigerian Army by Cameroonians. I therefore would like to make a call to all South Africans never to engage in debate with such elements since they lack sense of rationality, reason capacity and objective view. Indeed, I tell you such molecules will always reduce you to their level of illiteracy and beat you in that region.

saengine: And how exactly would a rifle impress you? The only way to be impressed by any rifle at all is to fire it, and compare advantages and disadvantages with other rifles you've also fired. Since you haven't fired this rifle, your point is useless. It means you just judged it purely based on the pic, which is like judging the handling of a car before you've even started the engine. I personally would feel embarrassed for making your comment, especially on a military forum. I was simply showing you the future direction in which the South African R4 rifle is headed, under Project African Warrior. I never compared it to anything, never said it was better than anything. You must be trying so hard to prove some sort of imaginary point.


You say please call in Russia or U.S for help with modern weaponry? Ignore the fact that South African defence technology has been exported to the west....shame

This so called All naija is very ignorant in every respect. I am convinced that he does not even know that throughout the entire Africa, SA ranks no:1 in terms of arms manufacturing and military technology. Propaganda or not, many developed nation from China to the state come to station here and learn a lot about SA military tech. China have even stolen SA intellectual rights and illegally imported some of SA technology to their country where they have even attempted to copy the tech of Rooivalk. People like should be thankful SA because they are putting the whole Africa on the map, aside them Africa would have been doomed. This was also admitted by Nigerian writer Chika Onyeani who wrote in his book Capitalist Nigger that SA remains the only country above Egypt to have played competitive role in Africa with regard to arms manufacturing to exchange blows with the likes of US and European giants.

all4naija: The SANDF were truly defeated in CAR. There is nothing to explain how the well trained SA troop lost their fight with 13 of their men confirmed dead in the aftermath of the encounter. It is a shame the so called one-eyed-nation of Africa lost a fight to untrained child soldiers in CAR.

Jealousy is the cause of your blindness. You are indeed sick!!! Tell me how do you lose if your enemy begged you to cease fire with a white flag. Djotodia, the Seleka rebel leader even regretted the action taken by his men and admitted that he lost a lot of men after apologising. SA is a well organised military force and are however not a match to rebels. SA was even more than willing to remain in CAR and wait for the support of more than 3000 soldiers who were due to be deployed to CAR. This was position taken by the president of the RSA until he was cautioned not to take that action after the extraordinary meeting he attended, thanks to AU.

As I said before, SA mission in CAR was ruled to be invalid and SA was therefore ordered to leave that country immediately as AU has decreed that it will not recognise the government of Djotodia until there was a diplomatic intervention. Thus, AU with their cowardice rather allowed Seleka rebels to roam free as victorious, because it did not want to resort to Military intervention to resolve conflict in that country because they feared the aftermath of war and criticism from UN for allowing SA to use force resulting in killing of people thought to be fighting for revolution in that country against a dictator (Bozize). AU was as well at comfort, since Djotodia vowed not to kill civilians, because his mere intention was to depose Bozize from power. ZUMA was even at home accused as being imperialist by opposition parties in South Africa. Our country's politics are different from that of Nigeria, here the president powers are very limited and thus he can not declare war against any country whenever he pleases. Perhaps, if you would have attended university or higher education you surely could have understood how diplomacy works. Now that you are not in that level, I will merely ignore your comments and dismiss them to be from that of an amateur or schoolboy.

The self-proclaimed president of the Central African Republic (CAR) has announced a caretaker government as allegations emerged that he sent child soldiers to their deaths during a bloody coup.

Michel Djotodia will also act as defence minister while several members of his Seleka rebel coalition are to run other ministries, a decree broadcast on national radio said. Civilian opposition representative Nicolas Tiangaye will remain as prime minister.

Djotodia, who drew several hundred residents in a march of support on Saturday, has vowed to run the former French colony until elections in 2016. He seized power last month when rebels swept into the capital, Bangui, after the collapse of a power-sharing deal, forcing president François Bozizé to flee the country.

The internationally condemned coup caused bloodshed and widespread looting. Last week, the Red Cross said 78 bodies had been found. Thirteen South African soldiers were killed, the country's worst military loss since the end of apartheid and the subject of growing political controversy.

Soldiers who were among South Africa's 298-strong force defending the regime have told of their trauma at realising they were shooting at children in the ranks of an estimated 3,000 rebels.

"It was only after the firing had stopped that we saw we had killed kids," one survivor of the battle of Bangui was quoted as saying by South Africa's Sunday Times. "We did not come here for this … to kill kids. It makes you sick. They were crying calling for help … calling for [their] mums."

A paratrooper told the paper: "We killed little boys … teenagers who should have been in school."

Other reports said many of the rebel fighters appeared to be 14 to 16 years old, with some under the influence of alcohol or drugs. The surviving soldiers have also complained that they began running out of ammunition and only had one doctor to provide medical support.

The incident has cast an unflattering light on South Africa's ambitions to project itself as a continental power and raised questions about its support for Bozizé, a deeply unpopular figure who himself came to power in a coup a decade ago.

Mondli Makhanya, a columnist for the Sunday Times, compared the adventure with Britain's involvement in the Iraq war. He said: "What the heck are we doing over there?"

On Monday, the leading opposition party in South Africa announced it would table an urgent parliamentary motion to force the withdrawal of troops from the CAR.

"Latest reports are that South African troops were involved in direct combat with both the Seleka rebels, including young children, as well as Bozizé's own mutinous soldiers," said Helen Zille, leader of the Democratic Alliance. "The conclusion is inescapable that the South African troops were deployed to defend the faltering and dictatorial Bozizé regime."

She added: "What makes this intervention even more disturbing is that the deployment was reportedly undertaken against expert military advice, allegedly to protect the business interests of a politically connected elite, both in South Africa and in the CAR. If this is so, President [Jacob] Zuma's position both as president of the republic and commander in chief of the armed forces, becomes untenable. The nation must know the truth."

Last week, the Mail & Guardian newspaper published an investigation into South Africa's extensive business interests in the mineral-rich CAR. Its front page headline asked: "Are these the deals our troops died for?"

On Monday, Jackson Mthembu, national spokesperson for the governing African National Congress (ANC), responded: "We want to put it on record that the ANC as an organisation does not have business interests in CAR. Secondly, the deployment of soldiers in CAR was a government decision deriving from our foreign policy and endorsed by both the African Union and the United Nations."

Mthembu also threatened legal action, claiming the Mail & Guardian was "pissing on the graves of gallant fighters who put their lives on the line in service of our country and our continent".

Zuma is due to attend an extraordinary summit of the Economic Community of Central African States on Wednesday to be hosted by the Chadian leader, Idriss Déby Itno.

The self-proclaimed president of the Central African Republic (CAR) has announced a caretaker government as allegations emerged that he sent child soldiers to their deaths during a bloody coup.

Michel Djotodia will also act as defence minister while several members of his Seleka rebel coalition are to run other ministries, a decree broadcast on national radio said. Civilian opposition representative Nicolas Tiangaye will remain as prime minister.

Djotodia, who drew several hundred residents in a march of support on Saturday, has vowed to run the former French colony until elections in 2016. He seized power last month when rebels swept into the capital, Bangui, after the collapse of a power-sharing deal, forcing president François Bozizé to flee the country.

The internationally condemned coup caused bloodshed and widespread looting. Last week, the Red Cross said 78 bodies had been found. Thirteen South African soldiers were killed, the country's worst military loss since the end of apartheid and the subject of growing political controversy.

Soldiers who were among South Africa's 298-strong force defending the regime have told of their trauma at realising they were shooting at children in the ranks of an estimated 3,000 rebels.

"It was only after the firing had stopped that we saw we had killed kids," one survivor of the battle of Bangui was quoted as saying by South Africa's Sunday Times. "We did not come here for this … to kill kids. It makes you sick. They were crying calling for help … calling for [their] mums."

A paratrooper told the paper: "We killed little boys … teenagers who should have been in school."

Other reports said many of the rebel fighters appeared to be 14 to 16 years old, with some under the influence of alcohol or drugs. The surviving soldiers have also complained that they began running out of ammunition and only had one doctor to provide medical support.

The incident has cast an unflattering light on South Africa's ambitions to project itself as a continental power and raised questions about its support for Bozizé, a deeply unpopular figure who himself came to power in a coup a decade ago.

Mondli Makhanya, a columnist for the Sunday Times, compared the adventure with Britain's involvement in the Iraq war. He said: "What the heck are we doing over there?"

On Monday, the leading opposition party in South Africa announced it would table an urgent parliamentary motion to force the withdrawal of troops from the CAR.

"Latest reports are that South African troops were involved in direct combat with both the Seleka rebels, including young children, as well as Bozizé's own mutinous soldiers," said Helen Zille, leader of the Democratic Alliance. "The conclusion is inescapable that the South African troops were deployed to defend the faltering and dictatorial Bozizé regime."

She added: "What makes this intervention even more disturbing is that the deployment was reportedly undertaken against expert military advice, allegedly to protect the business interests of a politically connected elite, both in South Africa and in the CAR. If this is so, President [Jacob] Zuma's position both as president of the republic and commander in chief of the armed forces, becomes untenable. The nation must know the truth."

Last week, the Mail & Guardian newspaper published an investigation into South Africa's extensive business interests in the mineral-rich CAR. Its front page headline asked: "Are these the deals our troops died for?"

On Monday, Jackson Mthembu, national spokesperson for the governing African National Congress (ANC), responded: "We want to put it on record that the ANC as an organisation does not have business interests in CAR. Secondly, the deployment of soldiers in CAR was a government decision deriving from our foreign policy and endorsed by both the African Union and the United Nations."

Mthembu also threatened legal action, claiming the Mail & Guardian was "pissing on the graves of gallant fighters who put their lives on the line in service of our country and our continent".

Zuma is due to attend an extraordinary summit of the Economic Community of Central African States on Wednesday to be hosted by the Chadian leader, Idriss Déby Itno.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/01/central-african-republic-leader-government

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This is the Speech of the president at the memorial service.

Message of condolence by the Commander in Chief of the SANDF and President of RSA, Mr JG Zuma at the memorial service of the SANDF members who died in the Central African Republic, Tshwane

02 April 2013

Members of the families of our fallen soldiers,

The Minister of Defence and Military Veterans,

Ministers and Premiers,

Deputy Ministers and Executive Mayors,

The Chief of the South African National Defence Force,

The Secretary for Defence,

Members of the Plenary Defence Staff Council,

Members of the Military Command

Generals, Admirals, Flag Officers

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I salute you all today on behalf of the Government of South Africa and on behalf of the commanders and soldiers of the South African National Defence Force.

 

We humbly greet you all in the name of the fallen heroes of the South African National Defence Force.

We have gathered here to pay tribute to our young servicemen who were part of the South African National Defence Force contingent who lost their lives in combat last week.

The attack on our base in the outskirts of the capital of the Central African Republic, Bangui, saw the loss of 13 young and brave men and resulted in the injury of 27. 

The ceremony to receive their mortal remains was held on Thursday at the Waterkloof Airforce Base, whilst the injured servicemen are being cared for at 1 Military Hospital. 

Bereaved families,

Compatriots and friends,

From every corner of our country, South Africans have expressed their pain and outrage at the death of our soldiers. 

The 13 heroes who bravely fought to protect their own are the following:

1. Corporal Mokgadi Darius Seakamela,

2. Corporal Ntebaleng Andrew Mogorosi,

3. Lance Corporal Daniel Sello Molara,

4. Lance Corporal Lukas Mohapi Tsheke,

5. Rifleman Lesego Maxwell Hertzog,

6. Rifleman Zamani Jim Mxhosana,

7. Rifleman Xolani Dlamini,

8. Rifleman Vusumzi Joseph Ngaleka,

9. Rifleman Karabo Edwin Matsheka,

10. Rifleman Khomotso Paul Msenga,

11. Rifleman Maleisane Samuel Thulo,

12. Rifleman Motsamai William Bojane and

13. Rifleman Thabiso Anthon Phirimana.

We salute and honour them for the supreme sacrifice they have paid for the achievement of peace in Africa.

They fought side by side as true soldiers, fighting off a large group of rebels who had attacked the South African military base.

Though it may seem as they were outnumbered, they were able to hold their own in a battle that lasted over 9 hours. As South Africans we should be truly proud of these soldiers. 

There are those who merely talk about South Africa and our wonderful freedom, rights and privileges and the need for peace and progress in the African continent.

Then, there are those who are always ready to act to protect the integrity of the Republic of South Africa and to contribute to the building of a peaceful and prosperous Africa. 

Our fallen soldiers were in that latter category.

The tears of grief from the families are both inevitable and deserved, because of the calibre of men we have lost. To the families, your pain is shared by thousands of South Africans in many corners of the country and the continent. 

When future generations ask what kind of men and women these were, who gave so much of their lives to the service of the people of South Africa and the continent, we will be able to boldly say how special they were, to put their own lives at risk for such a noble mission of building peace in the continent.

Compatriots,

This is a period of mourning, a period in which we must pay our respects and honour these selfless compatriots who remained true to the oath of office that they took when they joined the SANDF.

Unfortunately, there are those who have decided to use this period of mourning to try and dishonour the memory of our heroes by peddling various unfounded allegations and conspiracy theories.

There has been a deliberate attempt to cast doubt and distort the purpose of Operation Vimbezela, our mission in CAR.

We will not be side-tracked by those who are on a perpetual campaign against this democratic government.

Let me emphasise that we reject any insinuation that these soldiers were sent to the CAR for any reason other than in pursuit of the national interest and the interests of the African continent.

Our national servicemen died for a worthy cause. They died in defence of the country’s foreign policy. 

They died defending our commitment to the renewal of the African continent, and to the promotion of peace and stability which would lead to sustainable development in Africa.

Our foreign policy is premised on the vision of building a better Africa and a better world.

It is built on the foundation of Ubuntu and an understanding that we cannot be an island of peace and prosperity if our neighbours still battle with conflicts and poverty. We believe that as an integral part of the African continent, we must develop together with our neighbours in the continent.

Our belief in a free and prosperous Africa dates back a century. 

Our ultimate vision of the type of Africa we want to see, is best encapsulated in the April 1906 essay by one of the founding fathers of this free South Africa, Pixley ka Isaka Seme, entitled; “The Regeneration of Africa".

We are inspired when Dr Seme states; 

“The brighter day is rising upon Africa. 

Already I seem to see her chains dissolved, her desert plains red with harvest, her Abyssinia and her Zululand the seats of science and religion, reflecting the glory of the rising sun from the spires of their churches and universities. Her Congo and her Gambia whitened with commerce, her crowded cities sending forth the hum of business, and all her sons employed in advancing the victories of peace-greater and more abiding than the spoils of war."

This is the Africa that these heroic soldiers sought to build and it is this Africa that their children and grand children must live in.

Inspired by such a vision, South Africa sent soldiers to the Central African Republic, in response to a directive of the African Union of 2007. 

During that year, the African Union Peace and Security Council directed that its member states should, “in the name of African Solidarity” provide support for the socio-economic recovery and the consolidation of peace and stability in the Central African Republic, which had gone through periods of instability.  

Measures proposed included among others “Assistance towards the Defence and Security Sector".

In February 2007, South Africa signed the Defence Cooperation Memorandum of Understanding with the CAR (Operation Vimbezela), in line with this AU directive. The aim of this Operation was for South Africa to assist in the training of the CAR army. 

 

The military training included the Protection Force, VIP Protection, training of group leaders, specialists and infantry, refurbishment of bases and barracks and the provision of equipment. 

When the security situation in the CAR deteriorated in the late 2012, our government made an assessment that resulted in the deployment of 200 additional troops in the CAR as a protection force for the  trainers and the military assets that were already in that country. 

 

These additional soldiers were not trainers. They were not deployed to train but as a protection force for the trainers. 

 

The SANDF is continuing with its assessment and appreciation of the events that led to this tragedy. This assessment is standard procedure in the Defence Force. It is necessary in order to avoid similar losses of lives in future and current deployments. 

The problem in South Africa is that everybody wants to run the country. Government must be given the space to do its work of running the country to implement the policies of the ruling party that was voted into office by millions of our people.

There must also be an appreciation that military matters and decisions are not matters that are discussed in public, other than to share broader policy.

No country discusses its military strategy in public in the manner in which South Africa is expected to do in this country. Those who are engaging in this game should be careful not to endanger both the national interest and the security of the Republic while pursuing party political goals.

Compatriots,

We are continuing to consult the Central African region and the African Union on this matter. 

I will tomorrow attend the Extra-ordinary Summit of the Economic Community of Central African States, convened by the chairman, the President of Chad to discuss the situation in the Central African Republic. We will be guided by the continent as to what to do next.

South Africa will continue to work for the regeneration of the continent, as guided by our founding leaders.

We are a country with a rich and noble history of building peace and friendship with the world. 

One of the outstanding men to whom we owe our freedom, former ANC President Mr Oliver Tambo said in 1977 addressing the First Congress of the Angolan ruling party, the MPLA in Luanda in 1977.

He stated:  “We seek to live in peace with our neighbours and the peoples of the world in conditions of equality, mutual respect and equal advantage”.

In this vein, may the blood of our heroic soldiers, that has been shed so untimely, contribute to the building of lasting peace in the continent.

May it lead us to a period where there shall be an end to the unconstitutional changes of power and governments in Africa, where soldiers decide to take over government by force instead of through the ballot box.

The African Union Constitutive Act pronounces strongly its condemnation of unconstitutional changes in government. We remain committed to play our part to make peace, democracy and good governance take root in our beloved continent. 

Compatriots, 

As you would be aware, we meet as well just a few days after losing five of our soldiers in an air crash at Kruger National Park, whilst on a mission to protect our treasured resource, our rhinos. It is indeed a difficult period for the SANDF and the nation.

It is said that, the value of a man should be seen in what he gives and not in what he is able to receive. 

These words fit all these fallen heroes who gave their all. They gave much to their work. 

May the fond memories of all these fallen compatriots remain with us forever.

We pass our condolences to all the families of the fallen soldiers.

Sithi emindenini elahlekelwe, duduzekani. 

Siyazi kubuhlungu, kodwa amaqhawe ethu afele emsebenzini wokwakha ukuthula noxolo e-Afrika. Siyaziqhenya ngamaqhawe ethu onke.

May their souls rest in peace.

Mabalale ngoxolo.

God bless Africa.

I thank you.

http://www.thepresidency.gov.za/pebble.asp?relid=15157

patriot4: Isn't that the first thing the devil says: "the devil does not exist".
By the way I don't believe there is any state on earth without military propaganda.
I only used that source for the usefull information it gave on how SA propaganda shall work and is working.
In other words read the quote. The report I posted is part of SA propaganda, but it gave some usefull information on how your propaganda works. That is what I used.

That's a lie, SA never lost 50 men. Where do you get this? I watched the memorial service of those 13 soldiers on the national television SABC 2 where the president even gave the speech in front of the families of the deceased. The deceased names and faces where even shown on the big screen and their names are even engraved on the wall of remembrance in Thaba-Tshwane military headquarters in Pretoria. This issue has stifled political debate and is even tabled before the SA parliament where the Minister of Defence and the President will be called to answer certain question regarding the aim and objectives of the deployment of SANDF to CAR and families of the victims as well demand the answers.

The commanding officer of the whole Battalion that was deployed in CAR had also attended the memorial service to relate to the people as to what happened that day. It is, however, thought that the deployment was not approved by AU and was merely to support Bozize's government and business interests of the ruling party (ANC) in CAR. Moreover, SA soldiers never fled the scene, they remained in CAR until they were instructed to leave by orders from the commander in chief after having attended the adhoc meeting in Chad. The SA mission was considered invalid and imperial as it was said that Bozize also used the same military coup to clinch to power a decade ago.

all4naija: Don't be offended at my opinion on this particular gun. I thought at first it was some toy used by Nollywood or SA movies studio. I don't see anything worth praising in this Halo-4-like game gun.

However, the SA guns are in no way going to be better than the ones Nigeria government will be purchasing because they are coming from the developed nations' advanced technology. It is waste of time flaunting this toy as though it can withstand the developed nations product.

Please, call in Russia or US to help you guys out with modern weaponry. Until then this one doesn't impress me at all.

Don't be fooled, there is nothing the developed world can do and SA can't do. Some of those world, including the US are importing a lot SA made weapons. We have expertise and the best engineers in the world. That's a fact!!! Live with it.

patriot4: These videos say the opposit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4VOSwvJtxM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF0gZ_Q8JQo
Andrew, how are you going to continue your lie after this ?
It seems that it is not only your military vehicles seleka is cruising right now. They are also cruising your uniforms.

It doesn't matter, eventually after everything else the 3000 Seleka raised the white flag and knelt down on their knees, crawling towards our pride of the lions (SANDF) to leak their asses, pleading with our soldiers to cease fire. SANDF are not cowards and they do not need France or whoever so to use as cover for their pseudo-peace keeping mission. We stand tall and proud of our boys they have done a great job, more than 2000 miles away from their land.