₦airaland Forum

Empty vessel makes nothing more than noise.

Understood.

Salam,

With due respect I am. Yet I kinda wonder, for I cut my reply into portions so that might able me to post it but it still fails.

Again, sorry if my earlier words sound rude but they are rather necessary. Why? Why didn't you or Mukina respond to my complain since Saturday? I was even banned from posting since that day. I used my other ID, i.e. Muhseen but that too was instantly banned. I think and believe my complain deserved to be responded to earlier than now, Jarus. Hope you understand the reason of my anger.

I wonder o! I was even banned when trying to reply to this thread. What the hell is being happening? I lodged my complain on the Complain Thread but nothing, nothing happen!

Jarus/Mukina. . .thanks.

Assalamu alaikum,

[center]Narrated By 'Umar bin Al Salama: Who was the son of Um Salama, the wife of the Prophet:

Once I ate a meal with Allah's Apostle and I was eating from all sides of the dish. So Allah's Apostle said to me, "Eat of the dish what is nearer to you."

Bukhari - Volume 7 - Book 65 - Hadith 289[/center]

Serious?

Salam,

You don't deserve any more thanks, Jarus and Mukina. I am really disappointed, wallahi.

Nearly all the craps you've stated above have been aptly discussed on this very thread. Any way, for the sake of other readers I'll rebut, refute and debunk every single word you put, inshaAllah. This is the easiest thing as they contain nothing, I mean nothing but sheer illiteracy and stupidity. May Allah, the Exalted, guide you and other ignorant of Islam to the right and straight path, ameen.

focused123:
@Muhsin or Mushin or whatever you call yourself :

Who cares?

You are most stupid idiot on the surface of the earth. All I see is you denying facts and veracity. slowpoke. I don't think you come from the planet or are you from Muhammed's paradise (hell fire)

Let us see. . . And thanks for the name calling.

All your response are not intelligent at all. I wonder if you have brain in your skull or maybe what is in your skull is saw dust.

Am not even a human; but a robot. Thus forget brain.

I have produced all evidence. All Muhammedans do is deny all facts and veracity. Your deadly cult Islam only strive on denying all facts and blaming others for the problem when you should admit it and solve it.

You rather copied and pasted all nonsense that you naively think are "evidence". Or can you swear that all what you wrote above are your words? I swear I can supply the link where you cut them. . .do you disagree/doubt?

This is the proof :

1) Tabari VI.107 : SATAN CASTS A FALSE REVELATION ON THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH'S TONGUE


The messenger of Allah was eager for the welfare of his people and wished to effect a reconciliation with them in whatever ways he could. It is said that he wanted to find a way to do this, and what happened was a follows. (This section is also omitted by Ibn Hisham, perhaps because he felt it was discreditable to Muhammad).

Ibn Humayd - Salamah-Muhammad b. Ishaq - Yazid b. Ziyad al-Madani - Muhammad b. Ka'b al-Qurazi:

When the messenger of Allah saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from Allah, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from Allah which would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed out, and he debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then Allah revealed:

You are talking of At-Tabari, huh? Lets see what he had to say about his book--Tarikh al-Tabari: Tarikh al-Umam wal-Muluk, where you hurriedly and with gusto go and quote:



Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us



Thus, al-Tabari faithfully displayed these accounts in the exact manner through which he received them. Can he then be held liable if any objectionable accounts should arise? To translate this into laymen's terms, al-Tabari has simply refused accountability by avoiding the task of historical criticism. Therefore, any spurious accounts are not to be attributed to him

53:19 "By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of (his own) desire, "


and when he came to the words:


53:20 Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?


Satan allegedly cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words:

53:21 "These are the high flying cranes;


53:22 verily their intercession is accepted with approval.

(An alternative reading to turtada is turtaja, meaning, "is to be desired or hoped for"

Funny, indeed. Lets see:

Verse 2 : Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.

Verse 3 : Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.

Verse 4 : It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:

Verse 5 : He was taught by one Mighty in Power,

then the Whole Idol intercessor, and Female god theory is Hammered,

Verse 11 : The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.

verse 19 : Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,

Verse 20 : And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

Verse 21 : What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

Verse 22 : Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

Verse 23 : These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!



No one in their Right minds is going to bang on about any such ideas after reading this surah. . .only delusionists and confusionists like you

When Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from Allah, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake.

When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, following their prophet, trusting in the message which he had brought and following his example.

Those polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the mosque likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer or unbeliever, who did not prostrate himself. The one exception was al-Walid b. Al-Mughirah, who was a very old man and could not prostrate himself; but he took a handful of soil from the valley in his hand and bowed over that. Then they all dispersed from the mosque.

The Quraysh left delighted by the mention of their gods which they had heard, saying, "Muhammad has mentioned our gods in the most favorable way possible, stating in his recitation that they are the high flying cranes and that their intercession is received with approval."

It has been said in the story that the 'Satanic' interpolation occurred in Surah an-Najm (53:19) which delighted the idolators present in the Ka'bah and as a gesture of friendship and good-will, they all bowed down with the Prophet(P). In order to comment on the story it would seem necessary to read the verses in the Qur'an, adding the alleged 'Satanic' verses, and find out what is actually meant to be conveyed here. It would read as follows.

Have ye seen Lat and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? [These are the high-flying ones, whose intercession is to be hoped for!] What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! hese are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! [Qur'an 53:19-23]

If one reads the bold part of the alleged Satanic verses quoted above, one fails to understand how God on the one hand is praising the deities and on the other hand discrediting them by using the subsequent phrases quoted above. It is also difficult to see how the Quraysh leaders drew the conclusion from this chapter that Muhammad(P) as making a conciliatory move and was adopting a policy of give and take.

[2]EVIDENCE FROM SAHIH HADITH THAT MUHAMMAD SPOKE THE SATANIC VERSES -

6.385 Narrated Ibn Abbas:

The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Surat an-Najm, and all the Muslims and pagans and Jinns and human beings prostrated along with him

What is of note here is that the Hadith states that after Muhammad spoke "The Star", the pagans prostrated.

Who on God's earth in his sense could come up with such a fallacious and fraudulent conclusion? Only misguided people who are terribly biased and unfair. But you may help us out and pin-point where that is said. Period!

FROM THE QURAN -

Al Hajj, 22: 52-53 "Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But Allah abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. Allah is all-knowing and wise. He makes Satan's interjections a temptation for those whose hearts are diseased, whose hearts are hardened ,

The Night Journey, (Al Isra), 17: 73-75 "They sought to entice you from Our revelations - they nearly did - hoping that you might invent some other scripture in Our name, and thus become their trusted friend. Indeed had we not strengthened your faith, you might have made some compromise with them and thus incurred a double punishment in this life and in the next. Then you should have found none to help you against Us."

All of these verses are mentioned in the biographical material. All of them were revealed in relation to Muhammad speaking Satan's words

Had you and the website where you copied and pasted this investigated the chronology of the three revelations relative to the story, you could not possibly have missed the facts related below:

It can easily be gleaned from the story that the incident of reciting the 'Satanic' verses and the consequent prostration of the disbelievers in the Ka'bah happened after the first batch of Muslims had migrated to Abyssinia . This migration, according to all the reliable sources, occurred in the month of Rajab of the fifth year of the Prophetic call or about eight years before the Hijrah to Madinah. Therefore, the incident must have happened close to this date and not long after the migration to Abyssinia .

The verses of Surah al-Isra' (17:73-5) which were revealed, according to the story, to 'admonish' the Prophet(P) for allegedly reciting the 'Satanic' verses, in fact were not revealed until after the event of the Mi'raj. The Mi'raj or the Ascent of the Prophet(P), according to historical sources, occurred in the tenth or eleventh year of the Prophetic call, i.e., two or three years before the Hijrah to Madinah. If this is so, then it implies that the 'Satanic' verses were not detected or for some reason no mention was made about the alleged interpolation of the verses for five or six years and only afterwards was the Prophet(P) admonished for it. Can any sensible person believe that the interpolation occurs today, while the admonition takes place six years later and the abrogation of the interpolated verses is publicly announced after nine years. The relevant verse of Surah al-Hajj (22:52) according to the commentators of the Qur'an was revealed in the first year of Hijrah, i.e., about eight to nine years after the incident and about two and a half years after the so-called admonition of the Prophet(P) (17:73-5). Can anybody who knows about the Qur'an, its history and revelation, understand and explain how the incident of interpolation was allowed to be tolerated for six years and also why the offensive 'verses' were not abrogated until after nine years?

The implication of this argument is that since the abrogating verses were revealed nine years after the original event, that would mean that for nine years Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession! In other words outright idolatry resulting from compromised monotheistic beliefs. It is therefore quite pretentious to suggest any historicity in the notion that Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession over the span of almost a decade.

I see you are suffering from supreme ignorance. I feel pity for you. The characteristics of the prophets as portrayed in the Bible are:

Who is suffering from that? Read what I asked you: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

But all you could say is the following, which has no bearing with my question. And why that? Because you are sooo biased and know nothing about Islam.

1. Impassioned poetical utterances

2. Intense preoccupation with God, morality and above all, justice

3. An inordinate and fearless compulsion urging him to declare the will of the Almighty.

Jesus prophesied all lot of things, which was prophesied by the prophet of old and he also prophesied everything that is happening today. Muhammed was never a prophet even his wife Aisha confirmed this in the Hadith :

BTW, don't tell me Jesus too was said to be drunk and appearing naked like Noah (Genesis 9:20-24); worshiped false gods like Solomon (1 Kings 11:9-10); committed adultery like David (2 Samuel 11:4-5); to mention but a few of the absurdity and dishonesty of the Biblical accounts of the prophet before Jesus (pbuh).

According to the following hadith, Aisha confirms that Muhammad was not able to predict the future, hence he could not have been a prophet.

Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 6.378 Narrated byMasruq

I said to 'Aisha, "O Mother! Did Prophet Muhammad see his Lord?" 'Aisha said, "What you have said makes my hair stand on end ! Know that if somebody tells you one of the following three things, he is a liar: Whoever tells you that Muhammad saw his Lord, is a liar." Then Aisha recited the Verse:

"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Courteous Well-Acquainted with all things." (6.103) "It is not fitting for a human being that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration or from behind a veil." (42.51)

You are utterly ignorant. Let me educate you; even bible says God cannot be seen (John 5:37). Whats then your point here?

'Aisha further said,

"And whoever tells you that the Prophet knows what is going to happen tomorrow, is a liar." She then recited:

"No soul can know what it will earn tomorrow." (31.34)

She added: "And whoever tells you that he concealed (some of Allah's orders), is a liar." Then she recited: "O Apostle! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord, " (5.67) 'Aisha added, "But the Prophet saw Gabriel in his true form twice."

LOL!!! Answer the above question, we'll then proceed: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

Tabari 1:181 " The Prophet said 'I was sent immediately before the coming of the

Day of Doom. I preceded it like this one preceding that one' -referring to his index and middle finger"

182 "he said 'Allah will not make this nation [of Islam] incapable of lasting half a day -a day being a thousand years- …Consequently, based upon the Prophet's authority,, what remained of time was half a day that had elapsed to the Prophet's statement corresponds to 6500 years"

[b]Based upon Muhammad's prophecy, Dooms Day should have occurred 500 years after this 'revelation' which occured about 610 AD. Well, as we all know, the year 1110 had passed and we are in the year 2007 AD without the prophecy of the infallible 'Prophet' having come true. Muhammad's alleged prophesies could be counted on one hand none of which ever came true.

Another big lie. Had you any knowledge of what you copied and pasted you would not have come up with this. Thus I let that pass.

The Quran is evil, that is why Muhammedans are all evil. The vidence is there for all to see. Muhammad's Quran is an equal opportunity hatemongering book; not only does it attack and insult the Jews and Christians, but does the same to his own brother & sister Arabs who are supposedly of the UMMA of Muhammad and whom he was attempting to convert. The Quran is against the Christians and Jews. In the so called Quran, Muhammed unilaterally declared war against the Jews and Christians.

This is a thread in itself. I'll be more happy if you start a fresh thread on that topic. . .inshaAllah I'll engage you there.

Where are the judges?

NB:
My response is mainly based on this article

focused123:
@Muhsin :
Why is it that Islamist cannot engage in a simple debate without resorting to violence, threats or lodging complaints so that the moderator or whoever will ultimately lock the thread ? Afterall you insulted me first and you got what you bargained for

Did you really read this the posts made to this thread? I don't think.

But you are even too immature to engage me in such a debate.

Where did I insult you? Are that conspicuously and shamelessly unfair and unjust?

Am sure that has nothing to do with the mods. . .its the spam bot, most probably.

Isn't it true that that the Quran contain satanic verses ? Why are you complaining ? Grin Grin Grin Grin

Yeah. . .its blatantly a lie.

I pray God open your eyes to the truth

I too pray to Him to do the same to ya.

[size=18pt]Although I care less, but I hope and pray: PDP will never win Kano, too.[/size]

;d ;d ;d

Assalamu alaikum,[center]

Narrated By Abu Said Al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, 'Beware! Avoid sitting on the roads." They (the people) said, "O Allah s Apostle! We can't help sitting (on the roads) as these are (our places) here we have talks." The Prophet said, ' l f you refuse but to sit, then pay the road its right ' They said, "What is the right of the road, O Allah's Apostle?" He said, 'Lowering your gaze, refraining from harming others, returning greeting, and enjoining what is good, and forbidding what is evil."

Bukhari - Volume 8 - Book 74 - Hadith 248[/center]

[center]https://www.islamicboard.com/images/smilies/bismillah.gif[/center]

In fact, there are different ways to prove that the Qur'an is the word of God, which has always been true and has never been subjected to change or distortion. These proofs can be classified into three types: the way the Qur'an was transmitted throughout the centuries, some challenging verses within the Qur'an itself, and the periodic, modern-day discoveries in the universe that were first mentioned in the Qur'an more than fourteen centuries ago.

Unlike the Bible and Old Testament that have been subject to innumerable translations, doubtful and spurious transmissions, and corruptions at the hands of clerics up till now (with the “gender sensitive” versions coming out these days), the Qur'an was transmitted to us in an unprecedented and unique manner according to rigorous rules of transmission. The Qur'an was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) via the angel Gabriel, and the Prophet subsequently memorized the whole scripture.

Thousands of the Companions of the Prophet learned the Qur'an directly from the Prophet (pbuh). They memorized it and were known in Islamic history as huffaadh (the memorizers and preservers of the Qur'an). Moreover, a number of Companions wrote it down during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace be upon him), and it was compiled in its entirety immediately after his death.

The following generation of Muslims learned the Qur’an directly from the Companions. Thus the chain of teaching and learning through direct contact continued systematically, methodically, and meticulously until the present age.

Additionally, several of the Companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) were appointed as scribes to record the words of the revelation directly from the Prophet himself on parchment, leather, or whatever else was available. The most famous of these scribes was Zayd ibn Thabit, who also memorized the entire Qur’an, and he formed with the others a community of huffaadh that can be compared to academic societies of our present time.

We know the Qur’an was recorded in totality during the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh) and the different surahs (chapters) personally arranged by him. Many copies of the text were used for study and teaching, even in Mecca before the Hijrah, the migration to Medina.

The entire Qur’an was written down during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad, and trusting the fact that many scholars knew it by heart, it was not collected in one volume. It was personally arranged by him, and the Muslims memorized it in the same order. The companion Uthman reported that whenever a new verse was revealed, the Prophet would immediately call a scribe to record it. He would instruct the person to put the specific verse or verses in a particular chapter.

Furthermore, every year during the month of Ramadan, the Prophet would recite the whole Qur’an from beginning to end in its present-day arrangement, and everyday people could hear it from his own lips in the mosque. Its sequence is no mystery. Many of the Companions not only memorized it completely, they also wrote it down and even added commentary (tafseer) on their own personal copies. When the Prophet passed away, the whole Qur’an was already written down, but it was not yet compiled in book form.

During the rule of the first Caliph Abu Bakr, there was a rebellion among some distant Arab tribes that resulted in a series of fierce battles. In one particular battle, a number Companions who had memorized the Qur’an were killed. The Companion Omar worried that the knowledge of the Qur’an was in danger, thus he convinced Abu Bakr that the Qur’an should be compiled into book form as a means of preserving it once and for all.

Zayd bin Thabit was entrusted with this important task. Zayd followed strict methods in his compilation and had dozens of other huffaadh recheck his work to ensure its accuracy. Abu Bakr, who had also committed the entire Qur’an to memory, approved of the final product. After Abu Bakr passed away, the copy was passed to the Caliph ‘Omar, and then Uthman.

However as the Muslim world expanded into lands where the people spoke Arabic as a second language, the new Muslims had a difficult time learning the correct pronunciation of the text. The Caliph Uthman consulted other Companions, and they agreed that official copies of the Qur’an should be inscribed using only the pronunciation of the Quraysh tribe, the Arabic dialect that the Prophet spoke.

Zayd bin Thabit was again given this assignment, and three other huffaadh were assigned to help him in the task. Together, the four scribes borrowed the original, complete copy of the Qur’an, duplicated it manually many times over, and then distributed them to all of the major Muslim cities within the empire. Two of these copies still exist today: one is in Istanbul and the other in Tashkent.

One must keep in mind that in traditional learning in the Arab world, transmission was based upon an oral tradition as well as a written one; the Arabs (and later all Muslims) excelled in accurately reporting scripture, poetry, aphorisms, etc. through the generations without change. Similarly, the chain of huffaadh was never broken, and thus the Qur'an today has reached us in two forms: the memorized version transmitted through the scholarly chain, and the written version based upon the Companions’ initial recording.

If the Qur’an had been changed, there would be huge discrepancies between these two today, as the Qur’an has reached isolated (and sometimes illiterate) communities through the memorized form of transmission without the written form to correct it. No such discrepancies have ever been recorded or reported. In other words, isolated village A in African Mali and isolated village B in Afghanistan will both produce contemporary huffaadh reciting the same words of the Qur’an, though they did not learn from a similar printing of the scripture nor has there ever been a concerted international effort to rectify would-be discrepancies.

Allah has said in the Qur’an that He alone will protect His book, and indeed He has kept His promise. The Qur’an that we read today contains the same exact words that were revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) over 1400 years ago. This is quite a miracle, especially when you consider that no other group of people can say that their book has not been subject to change by the time it reached the present generation.

Only the Qur’an has survived through the centuries unchanged, and the language in which it was revealed, classical Arabic, still enjoys practical usage around the world. While classic English of the 14th century can be understand by very few native English speakers, the Qur’an can be understood by the vast majority of Arabic-speaking Muslims. When compared to other scriptures, the Qur’an is unique in these two respects.

Furthermore, from the prolific arts that have accompanied Qur’anic learning and transmission, we can learn of the auspiciousness and honor with which the Muslims have traditionally held the Qur’an. The visual arts of calligraphy and binding, and the vocal art of recitation represent examples of such arts, and from them we can see that veracity of transmission would be understood as a fundamental aspect of Qur’anic reverence.

As regards the proofs within the Qur'an itself, they can be found in the following Qur’anic challenges:

Surah 4, verse 82:
*{Do they not then meditate on the Qur’an? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy.}*



Surah 17, verse 88:
*{Say: If men and jinn should combine together to bring the like of this Quran, they could not bring the like of it, though some of them were aiders of others.}*



And Surah 2, verse 23:
*{And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.}*

Source:http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/, AskAboutIslamE

Well, here is it:

Nearly all the craps you've stated above have been aptly discussed on this very thread. Any way, for the sake of other readers I'll rebut, refute and debunk every single word you put, inshaAllah. This is the easiest thing as they contain nothing, I mean nothing but sheer illiteracy and stupidity. May Allah, the Exalted, guide you and other ignorant of Islam to the right and straight path, ameen.

focused123:
@Muhsin or Mushin or whatever you call yourself :

Who cares?

You are most stupid idiot on the surface of the earth. All I see is you denying facts and veracity. slowpoke. I don't think you come from the planet or are you from Muhammed's paradise (hell fire)

Let us see. . . And thanks for the name calling.

All your response are not intelligent at all. I wonder if you have brain in your skull or maybe what is in your skull is saw dust.

Am not even a human; but a robot. Thus forget brain.

I have produced all evidence. All Muhammedans do is deny all facts and veracity. Your deadly cult Islam only strive on denying all facts and blaming others for the problem when you should admit it and solve it.

You rather copied and pasted all nonsense that you naively think are "evidence". Or can you swear that all what you wrote above are your words? I swear I can supply the link where you cut them. . .do you disagree/doubt?

This is the proof :

1) Tabari VI.107 : SATAN CASTS A FALSE REVELATION ON THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH'S TONGUE

The messenger of Allah was eager for the welfare of his people and wished to effect a reconciliation with them in whatever ways he could. It is said that he wanted to find a way to do this, and what happened was a follows. (This section is also omitted by Ibn Hisham, perhaps because he felt it was discreditable to Muhammad).


Ibn Humayd - Salamah-Muhammad b. Ishaq - Yazid b. Ziyad al-Madani - Muhammad b. Ka'b al-Qurazi:
When the messenger of Allah saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from Allah, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from Allah which would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed out, and he debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then Allah revealed:

You are talking of At-Tabari, huh? Lets see what he had to say about his book--Tarikh al-Tabari: Tarikh al-Umam wal-Muluk, where you hurriedly and with gusto go and quote:

Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us

Thus, al-Tabari faithfully displayed these accounts in the exact manner through which he received them. Can he then be held liable if any objectionable accounts should arise? To translate this into laymen's terms, al-Tabari has simply refused accountability by avoiding the task of historical criticism. Therefore, any spurious accounts are not to be attributed to him

53:19 "By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of (his own) desire, "


and when he came to the words:


53:20 Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?


Satan allegedly cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words:


53:21 "These are the high flying cranes;


53:22 verily their intercession is accepted with approval.
(An alternative reading to turtada is turtaja, meaning, "is to be desired or hoped for"

Funny, indeed. Lets see:


Verse 2 : Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
Verse 3 : Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
Verse 4 : It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
Verse 5 : He was taught by one Mighty in Power,

then the Whole Idol intercessor, and Female god theory is Hammered,

Verse 11 : The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.

verse 19 : Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
Verse 20 : And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
Verse 21 : What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

Verse 22 : Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
Verse 23 : These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

No one in their Right minds is going to bang on about any such ideas after reading this surah. . .only delusionists and confusionists like you

When Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from Allah, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake.


When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, following their prophet, trusting in the message which he had brought and following his example.


Those polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the mosque likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer or unbeliever, who did not prostrate himself. The one exception was al-Walid b. Al-Mughirah, who was a very old man and could not prostrate himself; but he took a handful of soil from the valley in his hand and bowed over that. Then they all dispersed from the mosque.


The Quraysh left delighted by the mention of their gods which they had heard, saying, "Muhammad has mentioned our gods in the most favorable way possible, stating in his recitation that they are the high flying cranes and that their intercession is received with approval."

It has been said in the story that the 'Satanic' interpolation occurred in Surah an-Najm (53:19) which delighted the idolators present in the Ka'bah and as a gesture of friendship and good-will, they all bowed down with the Prophet(P). In order to comment on the story it would seem necessary to read the verses in the Qur'an, adding the alleged 'Satanic' verses, and find out what is actually meant to be conveyed here. It would read as follows.

Have ye seen Lat and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? [These are the high-flying ones, whose intercession is to be hoped for!] What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! hese are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! [Qur'an 53:19-23]

If one reads the bold part of the alleged Satanic verses quoted above, one fails to understand how God on the one hand is praising the deities and on the other hand discrediting them by using the subsequent phrases quoted above. It is also difficult to see how the Quraysh leaders drew the conclusion from this chapter that Muhammad(P) as making a conciliatory move and was adopting a policy of give and take.

[2]EVIDENCE FROM SAHIH HADITH THAT MUHAMMAD SPOKE THE SATANIC VERSES -

6.385 Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Surat an-Najm, and all the Muslims and pagans and Jinns and human beings prostrated along with him

What is of note here is that the Hadith states that after Muhammad spoke "The Star", the pagans prostrated.

Who on God's earth in his sense could come up with such a fallacious and fraudulent conclusion? Only misguided people who are terribly biased and unfair. But you may help us out and pin-point where that is said. Period!

FROM THE QURAN -

Al Hajj, 22: 52-53 "Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But Allah abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. Allah is all-knowing and wise. He makes Satan's interjections a temptation for those whose hearts are diseased, whose hearts are hardened ,


The Night Journey, (Al Isra), 17: 73-75 "They sought to entice you from Our revelations - they nearly did - hoping that you might invent some other scripture in Our name, and thus become their trusted friend. Indeed had we not strengthened your faith, you might have made some compromise with them and thus incurred a double punishment in this life and in the next. Then you should have found none to help you against Us."

All of these verses are mentioned in the biographical material. All of them were revealed in relation to Muhammad speaking Satan's words

Had you and the website where you copied and pasted this investigated the chronology of the three revelations relative to the story, you could not possibly have missed the facts related below:

It can easily be gleaned from the story that the incident of reciting the 'Satanic' verses and the consequent prostration of the disbelievers in the Ka'bah happened after the first batch of Muslims had migrated to Abyssinia. This migration, according to all the reliable sources, occurred in the month of Rajab of the fifth year of the Prophetic call or about eight years before the Hijrah to Madinah. Therefore, the incident must have happened close to this date and not long after the migration to Abyssinia.

The verses of Surah al-Isra' (17:73-5) which were revealed, according to the story, to 'admonish' the Prophet(P) for allegedly reciting the 'Satanic' verses, in fact were not revealed until after the event of the Mi'raj. The Mi'raj or the Ascent of the Prophet(P), according to historical sources, occurred in the tenth or eleventh year of the Prophetic call, i.e., two or three years before the Hijrah to Madinah. If this is so, then it implies that the 'Satanic' verses were not detected or for some reason no mention was made about the alleged interpolation of the verses for five or six years and only afterwards was the Prophet(P) admonished for it. Can any sensible person believe that the interpolation occurs today, while the admonition takes place six years later and the abrogation of the interpolated verses is publicly announced after nine years. The relevant verse of Surah al-Hajj (22:52) according to the commentators of the Qur'an was revealed in the first year of Hijrah, i.e., about eight to nine years after the incident and about two and a half years after the so-called admonition of the Prophet(P) (17:73-5). Can anybody who knows about the Qur'an, its history and revelation, understand and explain how the incident of interpolation was allowed to be tolerated for six years and also why the offensive 'verses' were not abrogated until after nine years?

The implication of this argument is that since the abrogating verses were revealed nine years after the original event, that would mean that for nine years Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession! In other words outright idolatry resulting from compromised monotheistic beliefs. It is therefore quite pretentious to suggest any historicity in the notion that Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession over the span of almost a decade.

I see you are suffering from supreme ignorance. I feel pity for you. The characteristics of the prophets as portrayed in the Bible are:

Who is suffering from that? Read what I asked you: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

But all you could say is the following, which has no bearing with my question. And why that? Because you are sooo biased and know nothing about Islam.

1. Impassioned poetical utterances


2. Intense preoccupation with God, morality and above all, justice


3. An inordinate and fearless compulsion urging him to declare the will of the Almighty.

Jesus prophesied all lot of things, which was prophesied by the prophet of old and he also prophesied everything that is happening today. Muhammed was never a prophet even his wife Aisha confirmed this in the Hadith :

BTW, don't tell me Jesus too was said to be drunk and appearing naked like Noah (Genesis 9:20-24); worshiped false gods like Solomon (1 Kings 11:9-10); committed adultery like David (2 Samuel 11:4-5); to mention but a few of the absurdity and dishonesty of the Biblical accounts of the prophet before Jesus (pbuh).

According to the following hadith, Aisha confirms that Muhammad was not able to predict the future, hence he could not have been a prophet.


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 6.378 Narrated byMasruq
I said to 'Aisha, "O Mother! Did Prophet Muhammad see his Lord?" 'Aisha said, "What you have said makes my hair stand on end ! Know that if somebody tells you one of the following three things, he is a liar: Whoever tells you that Muhammad saw his Lord, is a liar." Then Aisha recited the Verse:
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Courteous Well-Acquainted with all things." (6.103) "It is not fitting for a human being that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration or from behind a veil." (42.51)

You are utterly ignorant. Let me educate you; even bible says God cannot be seen (John 5:37). Whats then your point here?

'Aisha further said,

"And whoever tells you that the Prophet knows what is going to happen tomorrow, is a liar." She then recited:


"No soul can know what it will earn tomorrow." (31.34)
She added: "And whoever tells you that he concealed (some of Allah's orders), is a liar." Then she recited: "O Apostle! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord, " (5.67) 'Aisha added, "But the Prophet saw Gabriel in his true form twice."

LOL!!! Answer the above question, we'll then proceed: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

Tabari 1:181 " The Prophet said 'I was sent immediately before the coming of the
Day of Doom. I preceded it like this one preceding that one' -referring to his index and middle finger"


182 "he said 'Allah will not make this nation [of Islam] incapable of lasting half a day -a day being a thousand years- …Consequently, based upon the Prophet's authority,, what remained of time was half a day that had elapsed to the Prophet's statement corresponds to 6500 years"

[b]Based upon Muhammad's prophecy, Dooms Day should have occurred 500 years after this 'revelation' which occured about 610 AD. Well, as we all know, the year 1110 had passed and we are in the year 2007 AD without the prophecy of the infallible 'Prophet' having come true. Muhammad's alleged prophesies could be counted on one hand none of which ever came true.

Another big lie. Had you any knowledge of what you copied and pasted you would not have come up with this. Thus I let that pass.

The Quran is evil, that is why Muhammedans are all evil. The vidence is there for all to see. Muhammad's Quran is an equal opportunity hatemongering book; not only does it attack and insult the Jews and Christians, but does the same to his own brother & sister Arabs who are supposedly of the UMMA of Muhammad and whom he was attempting to convert. The Quran is against the Christians and Jews. In the so called Quran, Muhammed unilaterally declared war against the Jews and Christians.

This is a thread in itself. I'll be more happy if you start a fresh thread on that topic. . .inshaAllah I'll engage you there.

Where are the judges?

NB:

My response is mainly based on this article

Nearly all the craps you've stated above have been aptly discussed on this very thread. Any way, for the sake of other readers I'll rebut, refute and debunk every single word you put, inshaAllah. This is the easiest thing as they contain nothing, I mean nothing but sheer illiteracy and stupidity. May Allah, the Exalted, guide you and other ignorant of Islam to the right and straight path, ameen.

focused123:
@Muhsin or Mushin or whatever you call yourself :

Who cares?

You are most stupid idiot on the surface of the earth. All I see is you denying facts and veracity. slowpoke. I don't think you come from the planet or are you from Muhammed's paradise (hell fire)

Let us see. . . And thanks for the name calling.

All your response are not intelligent at all. I wonder if you have brain in your skull or maybe what is in your skull is saw dust.

Am not even a human; but a robot. Thus forget brain.

I have produced all evidence. All Muhammedans do is deny all facts and veracity. Your deadly cult Islam only strive on denying all facts and blaming others for the problem when you should admit it and solve it.

You rather copied and pasted all nonsense that you naively think are "evidence". Or can you swear that all what you wrote above are your words? I swear I can supply the link where you cut them. . .do you disagree/doubt?

Under 17? Look at their faces again. . .oh my God! ROFL!

Whats happening? Why can't I make a reply to this thread?

Any way, am afraid I may loose the reply. . .and I spent ages compiling it. Hence I posted it on Lodge Your Complain thread.

Continuation:

I see you are suffering from supreme ignorance. I feel pity for you. The characteristics of the prophets as portrayed in the Bible are:

Who is suffering from that? Read what I asked you: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

But all you could say is the following, which has no bearing with my question. And why that? Because you are sooo biased and know nothing about Islam.

1. Impassioned poetical utterances


2. Intense preoccupation with God, morality and above all, justice


3. An inordinate and fearless compulsion urging him to declare the will of the Almighty.

Jesus prophesied all lot of things, which was prophesied by the prophet of old and he also prophesied everything that is happening today. Muhammed was never a prophet even his wife Aisha confirmed this in the Hadith :

BTW, don't tell me Jesus too was said to be drunk and appearing naked like Noah (Genesis 9:20-24); worshiped false gods like Solomon (1 Kings 11:9-10); committed adultery like David (2 Samuel 11:4-5); to mention but a few of the absurdity and dishonesty of the Biblical accounts of the prophet before Jesus (pbuh).

According to the following hadith, Aisha confirms that Muhammad was not able to predict the future, hence he could not have been a prophet.


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 6.378 Narrated byMasruq
I said to 'Aisha, "O Mother! Did Prophet Muhammad see his Lord?" 'Aisha said, "What you have said makes my hair stand on end ! Know that if somebody tells you one of the following three things, he is a liar: Whoever tells you that Muhammad saw his Lord, is a liar." Then Aisha recited the Verse:
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Courteous Well-Acquainted with all things." (6.103) "It is not fitting for a human being that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration or from behind a veil." (42.51)

You are utterly ignorant. Let me educate you; even bible says God cannot be seen (John 5:37). Whats then your point here?

'Aisha further said,

"And whoever tells you that the Prophet knows what is going to happen tomorrow, is a liar." She then recited:


"No soul can know what it will earn tomorrow." (31.34)
She added: "And whoever tells you that he concealed (some of Allah's orders), is a liar." Then she recited: "O Apostle! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord, " (5.67) 'Aisha added, "But the Prophet saw Gabriel in his true form twice."

LOL!!! Answer the above question, we'll then proceed: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

Tabari 1:181 " The Prophet said 'I was sent immediately before the coming of the
Day of Doom. I preceded it like this one preceding that one' -referring to his index and middle finger"


182 "he said 'Allah will not make this nation [of Islam] incapable of lasting half a day -a day being a thousand years- …Consequently, based upon the Prophet's authority,, what remained of time was half a day that had elapsed to the Prophet's statement corresponds to 6500 years"

[b]Based upon Muhammad's prophecy, Dooms Day should have occurred 500 years after this 'revelation' which occured about 610 AD. Well, as we all know, the year 1110 had passed and we are in the year 2007 AD without the prophecy of the infallible 'Prophet' having come true. Muhammad's alleged prophesies could be counted on one hand none of which ever came true.

Another big lie. Had you any knowledge of what you copied and pasted you would not have come up with this. Thus I let that pass.

The Quran is evil, that is why Muhammedans are all evil. The vidence is there for all to see. Muhammad's Quran is an equal opportunity hatemongering book; not only does it attack and insult the Jews and Christians, but does the same to his own brother & sister Arabs who are supposedly of the UMMA of Muhammad and whom he was attempting to convert. The Quran is against the Christians and Jews. In the so called Quran, Muhammed unilaterally declared war against the Jews and Christians.

This is a thread in itself. I'll be more happy if you start a fresh thread on that topic. . .inshaAllah I'll engage you there.

Where are the judges?

NB:

My response is mainly based on this article

Nearly all the craps you've stated above have been aptly discussed on this very thread. Any way, for the sake of other readers I'll rebut, refute and debunk every single word you put, inshaAllah. This is the easiest thing as they contain nothing, I mean nothing but sheer illiteracy and stupidity. May Allah, the Exalted, guide you and other ignorant of Islam to the right and straight path, ameen.

focused123:
@Muhsin or Mushin or whatever you call yourself :

Who cares?

You are most stupid idiot on the surface of the earth. All I see is you denying facts and veracity. slowpoke. I don't think you come from the planet or are you from Muhammed's paradise (hell fire)

Let us see. . . And thanks for the name calling.

All your response are not intelligent at all. I wonder if you have brain in your skull or maybe what is in your skull is saw dust.

Am not even a human; but a robot. Thus forget brain.

I have produced all evidence. All Muhammedans do is deny all facts and veracity. Your deadly cult Islam only strive on denying all facts and blaming others for the problem when you should admit it and solve it.

You rather copied and pasted all nonsense that you naively think are "evidence". Or can you swear that all what you wrote above are your words? I swear I can supply the link where you cut them. . .do you disagree/doubt?

This is the proof :

1) Tabari VI.107 : SATAN CASTS A FALSE REVELATION ON THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH'S TONGUE

The messenger of Allah was eager for the welfare of his people and wished to effect a reconciliation with them in whatever ways he could. It is said that he wanted to find a way to do this, and what happened was a follows. (This section is also omitted by Ibn Hisham, perhaps because he felt it was discreditable to Muhammad).


Ibn Humayd - Salamah-Muhammad b. Ishaq - Yazid b. Ziyad al-Madani - Muhammad b. Ka'b al-Qurazi:
When the messenger of Allah saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from Allah, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from Allah which would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed out, and he debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then Allah revealed:

You are talking of At-Tabari, huh? Lets see what he had to say about his book--Tarikh al-Tabari: Tarikh al-Umam wal-Muluk, where you hurriedly and with gusto go and quote:

Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us

Thus, al-Tabari faithfully displayed these accounts in the exact manner through which he received them. Can he then be held liable if any objectionable accounts should arise? To translate this into laymen's terms, al-Tabari has simply refused accountability by avoiding the task of historical criticism. Therefore, any spurious accounts are not to be attributed to him

53:19 "By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of (his own) desire, "


and when he came to the words:


53:20 Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?


Satan allegedly cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words:


53:21 "These are the high flying cranes;


53:22 verily their intercession is accepted with approval.
(An alternative reading to turtada is turtaja, meaning, "is to be desired or hoped for"

Funny, indeed. Lets see:


Verse 2 : Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
Verse 3 : Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
Verse 4 : It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
Verse 5 : He was taught by one Mighty in Power,

then the Whole Idol intercessor, and Female god theory is Hammered,

Verse 11 : The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.

verse 19 : Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
Verse 20 : And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
Verse 21 : What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

Verse 22 : Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
Verse 23 : These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

No one in their Right minds is going to bang on about any such ideas after reading this surah. . .only delusionists and confusionists like you

When Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from Allah, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake.


When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, following their prophet, trusting in the message which he had brought and following his example.


Those polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the mosque likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer or unbeliever, who did not prostrate himself. The one exception was al-Walid b. Al-Mughirah, who was a very old man and could not prostrate himself; but he took a handful of soil from the valley in his hand and bowed over that. Then they all dispersed from the mosque.


The Quraysh left delighted by the mention of their gods which they had heard, saying, "Muhammad has mentioned our gods in the most favorable way possible, stating in his recitation that they are the high flying cranes and that their intercession is received with approval."

It has been said in the story that the 'Satanic' interpolation occurred in Surah an-Najm (53:19) which delighted the idolators present in the Ka'bah and as a gesture of friendship and good-will, they all bowed down with the Prophet(P). In order to comment on the story it would seem necessary to read the verses in the Qur'an, adding the alleged 'Satanic' verses, and find out what is actually meant to be conveyed here. It would read as follows.

Have ye seen Lat and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? [These are the high-flying ones, whose intercession is to be hoped for!] What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! hese are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! [Qur'an 53:19-23]

If one reads the bold part of the alleged Satanic verses quoted above, one fails to understand how God on the one hand is praising the deities and on the other hand discrediting them by using the subsequent phrases quoted above. It is also difficult to see how the Quraysh leaders drew the conclusion from this chapter that Muhammad(P) as making a conciliatory move and was adopting a policy of give and take.

[2]EVIDENCE FROM SAHIH HADITH THAT MUHAMMAD SPOKE THE SATANIC VERSES -

6.385 Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Surat an-Najm, and all the Muslims and pagans and Jinns and human beings prostrated along with him

What is of note here is that the Hadith states that after Muhammad spoke "The Star", the pagans prostrated.

Who on God's earth in his sense could come up with such a fallacious and fraudulent conclusion? Only misguided people who are terribly biased and unfair. But you may help us out and pin-point where that is said. Period!

FROM THE QURAN -

Al Hajj, 22: 52-53 "Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But Allah abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. Allah is all-knowing and wise. He makes Satan's interjections a temptation for those whose hearts are diseased, whose hearts are hardened ,


The Night Journey, (Al Isra), 17: 73-75 "They sought to entice you from Our revelations - they nearly did - hoping that you might invent some other scripture in Our name, and thus become their trusted friend. Indeed had we not strengthened your faith, you might have made some compromise with them and thus incurred a double punishment in this life and in the next. Then you should have found none to help you against Us."

All of these verses are mentioned in the biographical material. All of them were revealed in relation to Muhammad speaking Satan's words

Had you and the website where you copied and pasted this investigated the chronology of the three revelations relative to the story, you could not possibly have missed the facts related below:

It can easily be gleaned from the story that the incident of reciting the 'Satanic' verses and the consequent prostration of the disbelievers in the Ka'bah happened after the first batch of Muslims had migrated to Abyssinia. This migration, according to all the reliable sources, occurred in the month of Rajab of the fifth year of the Prophetic call or about eight years before the Hijrah to Madinah. Therefore, the incident must have happened close to this date and not long after the migration to Abyssinia.

The verses of Surah al-Isra' (17:73-5) which were revealed, according to the story, to 'admonish' the Prophet(P) for allegedly reciting the 'Satanic' verses, in fact were not revealed until after the event of the Mi'raj. The Mi'raj or the Ascent of the Prophet(P), according to historical sources, occurred in the tenth or eleventh year of the Prophetic call, i.e., two or three years before the Hijrah to Madinah. If this is so, then it implies that the 'Satanic' verses were not detected or for some reason no mention was made about the alleged interpolation of the verses for five or six years and only afterwards was the Prophet(P) admonished for it. Can any sensible person believe that the interpolation occurs today, while the admonition takes place six years later and the abrogation of the interpolated verses is publicly announced after nine years. The relevant verse of Surah al-Hajj (22:52) according to the commentators of the Qur'an was revealed in the first year of Hijrah, i.e., about eight to nine years after the incident and about two and a half years after the so-called admonition of the Prophet(P) (17:73-5). Can anybody who knows about the Qur'an, its history and revelation, understand and explain how the incident of interpolation was allowed to be tolerated for six years and also why the offensive 'verses' were not abrogated until after nine years?

The implication of this argument is that since the abrogating verses were revealed nine years after the original event, that would mean that for nine years Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession! In other words outright idolatry resulting from compromised monotheistic beliefs. It is therefore quite pretentious to suggest any historicity in the notion that Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession over the span of almost a decade.

Salam,

Jarus/Mukina,

I have been posting and re-posting a reply to my thread Alleged Satanic Verses for more than an hour but it never show up. What is happening? Please respond to me ASAP as am going for mosque in minutes. Thanks

Nearly all the craps you've stated above have been aptly discussed on this very thread. Any way, for the sake of other readers I'll rebut, refute and debunk every single word you put, inshaAllah. This is the easiest thing as they contain nothing, I mean nothing but sheer illiteracy and stupidity. May Allah, the Exalted, guide you and other ignorant of Islam to the right and straight path, ameen.

focused123:
@Muhsin or Mushin or whatever you call yourself :

Who cares?

You are most stupid idiot on the surface of the earth. All I see is you denying facts and veracity. slowpoke. I don't think you come from the planet or are you from Muhammed's paradise (hell fire)

Let us see. . . And thanks for the name calling.

All your response are not intelligent at all. I wonder if you have brain in your skull or maybe what is in your skull is saw dust.

Am not even a human; but a robot. Thus forget brain.

I have produced all evidence. All Muhammedans do is deny all facts and veracity. Your deadly cult Islam only strive on denying all facts and blaming others for the problem when you should admit it and solve it.

You rather copied and pasted all nonsense that you naively think are "evidence". Or can you swear that all what you wrote above are your words? I swear I can supply the link where you cut them. . .do you disagree/doubt?

This is the proof :

1) Tabari VI.107 : SATAN CASTS A FALSE REVELATION ON THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH'S TONGUE

The messenger of Allah was eager for the welfare of his people and wished to effect a reconciliation with them in whatever ways he could. It is said that he wanted to find a way to do this, and what happened was a follows. (This section is also omitted by Ibn Hisham, perhaps because he felt it was discreditable to Muhammad).


Ibn Humayd - Salamah-Muhammad b. Ishaq - Yazid b. Ziyad al-Madani - Muhammad b. Ka'b al-Qurazi:
When the messenger of Allah saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from Allah, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from Allah which would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed out, and he debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then Allah revealed:

You are talking of At-Tabari, huh? Lets see what he had to say about his book--Tarikh al-Tabari: Tarikh al-Umam wal-Muluk, where you hurriedly and with gusto go and quote:

Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us

Thus, al-Tabari faithfully displayed these accounts in the exact manner through which he received them. Can he then be held liable if any objectionable accounts should arise? To translate this into laymen's terms, al-Tabari has simply refused accountability by avoiding the task of historical criticism. Therefore, any spurious accounts are not to be attributed to him

53:19 "By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of (his own) desire, "


and when he came to the words:


53:20 Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?


Satan allegedly cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words:


53:21 "These are the high flying cranes;


53:22 verily their intercession is accepted with approval.
(An alternative reading to turtada is turtaja, meaning, "is to be desired or hoped for"

Funny, indeed. Lets see:


Verse 2 : Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
Verse 3 : Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
Verse 4 : It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
Verse 5 : He was taught by one Mighty in Power,

then the Whole Idol intercessor, and Female god theory is Hammered,

Verse 11 : The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.

verse 19 : Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
Verse 20 : And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
Verse 21 : What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

Verse 22 : Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
Verse 23 : These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

No one in their Right minds is going to bang on about any such ideas after reading this surah. . .only delusionists and confusionists like you

When Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from Allah, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake.


When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, following their prophet, trusting in the message which he had brought and following his example.


Those polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the mosque likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer or unbeliever, who did not prostrate himself. The one exception was al-Walid b. Al-Mughirah, who was a very old man and could not prostrate himself; but he took a handful of soil from the valley in his hand and bowed over that. Then they all dispersed from the mosque.


The Quraysh left delighted by the mention of their gods which they had heard, saying, "Muhammad has mentioned our gods in the most favorable way possible, stating in his recitation that they are the high flying cranes and that their intercession is received with approval."

It has been said in the story that the 'Satanic' interpolation occurred in Surah an-Najm (53:19) which delighted the idolators present in the Ka'bah and as a gesture of friendship and good-will, they all bowed down with the Prophet(P). In order to comment on the story it would seem necessary to read the verses in the Qur'an, adding the alleged 'Satanic' verses, and find out what is actually meant to be conveyed here. It would read as follows.

Have ye seen Lat and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? [These are the high-flying ones, whose intercession is to be hoped for!] What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! hese are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! [Qur'an 53:19-23]

If one reads the bold part of the alleged Satanic verses quoted above, one fails to understand how God on the one hand is praising the deities and on the other hand discrediting them by using the subsequent phrases quoted above. It is also difficult to see how the Quraysh leaders drew the conclusion from this chapter that Muhammad(P) as making a conciliatory move and was adopting a policy of give and take.

[2]EVIDENCE FROM SAHIH HADITH THAT MUHAMMAD SPOKE THE SATANIC VERSES -

6.385 Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Surat an-Najm, and all the Muslims and pagans and Jinns and human beings prostrated along with him

What is of note here is that the Hadith states that after Muhammad spoke "The Star", the pagans prostrated.

Who on God's earth in his sense could come up with such a fallacious and fraudulent conclusion? Only misguided people who are terribly biased and unfair. But you may help us out and pin-point where that is said. Period!

FROM THE QURAN -

Al Hajj, 22: 52-53 "Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But Allah abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. Allah is all-knowing and wise. He makes Satan's interjections a temptation for those whose hearts are diseased, whose hearts are hardened ,


The Night Journey, (Al Isra), 17: 73-75 "They sought to entice you from Our revelations - they nearly did - hoping that you might invent some other scripture in Our name, and thus become their trusted friend. Indeed had we not strengthened your faith, you might have made some compromise with them and thus incurred a double punishment in this life and in the next. Then you should have found none to help you against Us."

All of these verses are mentioned in the biographical material. All of them were revealed in relation to Muhammad speaking Satan's words

Had you and the website where you copied and pasted this investigated the chronology of the three revelations relative to the story, you could not possibly have missed the facts related below:

It can easily be gleaned from the story that the incident of reciting the 'Satanic' verses and the consequent prostration of the disbelievers in the Ka'bah happened after the first batch of Muslims had migrated to Abyssinia. This migration, according to all the reliable sources, occurred in the month of Rajab of the fifth year of the Prophetic call or about eight years before the Hijrah to Madinah. Therefore, the incident must have happened close to this date and not long after the migration to Abyssinia.

The verses of Surah al-Isra' (17:73-5) which were revealed, according to the story, to 'admonish' the Prophet(P) for allegedly reciting the 'Satanic' verses, in fact were not revealed until after the event of the Mi'raj. The Mi'raj or the Ascent of the Prophet(P), according to historical sources, occurred in the tenth or eleventh year of the Prophetic call, i.e., two or three years before the Hijrah to Madinah. If this is so, then it implies that the 'Satanic' verses were not detected or for some reason no mention was made about the alleged interpolation of the verses for five or six years and only afterwards was the Prophet(P) admonished for it. Can any sensible person believe that the interpolation occurs today, while the admonition takes place six years later and the abrogation of the interpolated verses is publicly announced after nine years. The relevant verse of Surah al-Hajj (22:52) according to the commentators of the Qur'an was revealed in the first year of Hijrah, i.e., about eight to nine years after the incident and about two and a half years after the so-called admonition of the Prophet(P) (17:73-5). Can anybody who knows about the Qur'an, its history and revelation, understand and explain how the incident of interpolation was allowed to be tolerated for six years and also why the offensive 'verses' were not abrogated until after nine years?

The implication of this argument is that since the abrogating verses were revealed nine years after the original event, that would mean that for nine years Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession! In other words outright idolatry resulting from compromised monotheistic beliefs. It is therefore quite pretentious to suggest any historicity in the notion that Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession over the span of almost a decade.

I see you are suffering from supreme ignorance. I feel pity for you. The characteristics of the prophets as portrayed in the Bible are:

Who is suffering from that? Read what I asked you: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

But all you could say is the following, which has no bearing with my question. And why that? Because you are sooo biased and know nothing about Islam.

1. Impassioned poetical utterances


2. Intense preoccupation with God, morality and above all, justice


3. An inordinate and fearless compulsion urging him to declare the will of the Almighty.

Jesus prophesied all lot of things, which was prophesied by the prophet of old and he also prophesied everything that is happening today. Muhammed was never a prophet even his wife Aisha confirmed this in the Hadith :

BTW, don't tell me Jesus too was said to be drunk and appearing naked like Noah (Genesis 9:20-24); worshiped false gods like Solomon (1 Kings 11:9-10); committed adultery like David (2 Samuel 11:4-5); to mention but a few of the absurdity and dishonesty of the Biblical accounts of the prophet before Jesus (pbuh).

According to the following hadith, Aisha confirms that Muhammad was not able to predict the future, hence he could not have been a prophet.


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 6.378 Narrated byMasruq
I said to 'Aisha, "O Mother! Did Prophet Muhammad see his Lord?" 'Aisha said, "What you have said makes my hair stand on end ! Know that if somebody tells you one of the following three things, he is a liar: Whoever tells you that Muhammad saw his Lord, is a liar." Then Aisha recited the Verse:
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Courteous Well-Acquainted with all things." (6.103) "It is not fitting for a human being that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration or from behind a veil." (42.51)

You are utterly ignorant. Let me educate you; even bible says God cannot be seen (John 5:37). Whats then your point here?

'Aisha further said,

"And whoever tells you that the Prophet knows what is going to happen tomorrow, is a liar." She then recited:


"No soul can know what it will earn tomorrow." (31.34)
She added: "And whoever tells you that he concealed (some of Allah's orders), is a liar." Then she recited: "O Apostle! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord, " (5.67) 'Aisha added, "But the Prophet saw Gabriel in his true form twice."

LOL!!! Answer the above question, we'll then proceed: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

Tabari 1:181 " The Prophet said 'I was sent immediately before the coming of the
Day of Doom. I preceded it like this one preceding that one' -referring to his index and middle finger"


182 "he said 'Allah will not make this nation [of Islam] incapable of lasting half a day -a day being a thousand years- …Consequently, based upon the Prophet's authority,, what remained of time was half a day that had elapsed to the Prophet's statement corresponds to 6500 years"

[b]Based upon Muhammad's prophecy, Dooms Day should have occurred 500 years after this 'revelation' which occured about 610 AD. Well, as we all know, the year 1110 had passed and we are in the year 2007 AD without the prophecy of the infallible 'Prophet' having come true. Muhammad's alleged prophesies could be counted on one hand none of which ever came true.

Another big lie. Had you any knowledge of what you copied and pasted you would not have come up with this. Thus I let that pass.

The Quran is evil, that is why Muhammedans are all evil. The vidence is there for all to see. Muhammad's Quran is an equal opportunity hatemongering book; not only does it attack and insult the Jews and Christians, but does the same to his own brother & sister Arabs who are supposedly of the UMMA of Muhammad and whom he was attempting to convert. The Quran is against the Christians and Jews. In the so called Quran, Muhammed unilaterally declared war against the Jews and Christians.

This is a thread in itself. I'll be more happy if you start a fresh thread on that topic. . .inshaAllah I'll engage you there.

Where are the judges?

NB:

My response is mainly based on this article

Barka da Jumu'ah

udezue:
i have my opinion and fashola will do watever he likes whether i like it or not

But nobody says you aren't allowed to express it, huh?

Nearly all the craps you've stated above have been aptly discussed on this very thread. Any way, for the sake of other readers I'll rebut, refute and debunk every single word you put, inshaAllah. This is the easiest thing as they contain nothing, I mean nothing but sheer illiteracy and stupidity. May Allah, the Exalted, guide you and other ignorant of Islam to the right and straight path, ameen.

focused123:
@Muhsin or Mushin or whatever you call yourself :

Who cares?

You are most stupid idiot on the surface of the earth. All I see is you denying facts and veracity. slowpoke. I don't think you come from the planet or are you from Muhammed's paradise (hell fire)

Let us see. . . And thanks for the name calling.

All your response are not intelligent at all. I wonder if you have brain in your skull or maybe what is in your skull is saw dust.

Am not even a human; but a robot. Thus forget brain.

I have produced all evidence. All Muhammedans do is deny all facts and veracity. Your deadly cult Islam only strive on denying all facts and blaming others for the problem when you should admit it and solve it.

You rather copied and pasted all nonsense that you naively think are "evidence". Or can you swear that all what you wrote above are your words? I swear I can supply the link where you cut them. . .do you disagree/doubt?

This is the proof :

1) Tabari VI.107 : SATAN CASTS A FALSE REVELATION ON THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH'S TONGUE

The messenger of Allah was eager for the welfare of his people and wished to effect a reconciliation with them in whatever ways he could. It is said that he wanted to find a way to do this, and what happened was a follows. (This section is also omitted by Ibn Hisham, perhaps because he felt it was discreditable to Muhammad).


Ibn Humayd - Salamah-Muhammad b. Ishaq - Yazid b. Ziyad al-Madani - Muhammad b. Ka'b al-Qurazi:
When the messenger of Allah saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from Allah, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from Allah which would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed out, and he debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then Allah revealed:

You are talking of At-Tabari, huh? Lets see what he had to say about his book--Tarikh al-Tabari: Tarikh al-Umam wal-Muluk, where you hurriedly and with gusto go and quote:

Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us

Thus, al-Tabari faithfully displayed these accounts in the exact manner through which he received them. Can he then be held liable if any objectionable accounts should arise? To translate this into laymen's terms, al-Tabari has simply refused accountability by avoiding the task of historical criticism. Therefore, any spurious accounts are not to be attributed to him

53:19 "By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of (his own) desire, "


and when he came to the words:


53:20 Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?


Satan allegedly cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words:


53:21 "These are the high flying cranes;


53:22 verily their intercession is accepted with approval.
(An alternative reading to turtada is turtaja, meaning, "is to be desired or hoped for"

Funny, indeed. Lets see:


Verse 2 : Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
Verse 3 : Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
Verse 4 : It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
Verse 5 : He was taught by one Mighty in Power,

then the Whole Idol intercessor, and Female god theory is Hammered,

Verse 11 : The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.

verse 19 : Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
Verse 20 : And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
Verse 21 : What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

Verse 22 : Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
Verse 23 : These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

No one in their Right minds is going to bang on about any such ideas after reading this surah. . .only delusionists and confusionists like you

When Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from Allah, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake.


When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, following their prophet, trusting in the message which he had brought and following his example.


Those polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the mosque likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer or unbeliever, who did not prostrate himself. The one exception was al-Walid b. Al-Mughirah, who was a very old man and could not prostrate himself; but he took a handful of soil from the valley in his hand and bowed over that. Then they all dispersed from the mosque.


The Quraysh left delighted by the mention of their gods which they had heard, saying, "Muhammad has mentioned our gods in the most favorable way possible, stating in his recitation that they are the high flying cranes and that their intercession is received with approval."

It has been said in the story that the 'Satanic' interpolation occurred in Surah an-Najm (53:19) which delighted the idolators present in the Ka'bah and as a gesture of friendship and good-will, they all bowed down with the Prophet(P). In order to comment on the story it would seem necessary to read the verses in the Qur'an, adding the alleged 'Satanic' verses, and find out what is actually meant to be conveyed here. It would read as follows.

Have ye seen Lat and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? [These are the high-flying ones, whose intercession is to be hoped for!] What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! hese are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! [Qur'an 53:19-23]

If one reads the bold part of the alleged Satanic verses quoted above, one fails to understand how God on the one hand is praising the deities and on the other hand discrediting them by using the subsequent phrases quoted above. It is also difficult to see how the Quraysh leaders drew the conclusion from this chapter that Muhammad(P) as making a conciliatory move and was adopting a policy of give and take.

[2]EVIDENCE FROM SAHIH HADITH THAT MUHAMMAD SPOKE THE SATANIC VERSES -

6.385 Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Surat an-Najm, and all the Muslims and pagans and Jinns and human beings prostrated along with him

What is of note here is that the Hadith states that after Muhammad spoke "The Star", the pagans prostrated.

Who on God's earth in his sense could come up with such a fallacious and fraudulent conclusion? Only misguided people who are terribly biased and unfair. But you may help us out and pin-point where that is said. Period!

FROM THE QURAN -

Al Hajj, 22: 52-53 "Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But Allah abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. Allah is all-knowing and wise. He makes Satan's interjections a temptation for those whose hearts are diseased, whose hearts are hardened ,


The Night Journey, (Al Isra), 17: 73-75 "They sought to entice you from Our revelations - they nearly did - hoping that you might invent some other scripture in Our name, and thus become their trusted friend. Indeed had we not strengthened your faith, you might have made some compromise with them and thus incurred a double punishment in this life and in the next. Then you should have found none to help you against Us."

All of these verses are mentioned in the biographical material. All of them were revealed in relation to Muhammad speaking Satan's words

Had you and the website where you copied and pasted this investigated the chronology of the three revelations relative to the story, you could not possibly have missed the facts related below:

It can easily be gleaned from the story that the incident of reciting the 'Satanic' verses and the consequent prostration of the disbelievers in the Ka'bah happened after the first batch of Muslims had migrated to Abyssinia. This migration, according to all the reliable sources, occurred in the month of Rajab of the fifth year of the Prophetic call or about eight years before the Hijrah to Madinah. Therefore, the incident must have happened close to this date and not long after the migration to Abyssinia.

The verses of Surah al-Isra' (17:73-5) which were revealed, according to the story, to 'admonish' the Prophet(P) for allegedly reciting the 'Satanic' verses, in fact were not revealed until after the event of the Mi'raj. The Mi'raj or the Ascent of the Prophet(P), according to historical sources, occurred in the tenth or eleventh year of the Prophetic call, i.e., two or three years before the Hijrah to Madinah. If this is so, then it implies that the 'Satanic' verses were not detected or for some reason no mention was made about the alleged interpolation of the verses for five or six years and only afterwards was the Prophet(P) admonished for it. Can any sensible person believe that the interpolation occurs today, while the admonition takes place six years later and the abrogation of the interpolated verses is publicly announced after nine years. The relevant verse of Surah al-Hajj (22:52) according to the commentators of the Qur'an was revealed in the first year of Hijrah, i.e., about eight to nine years after the incident and about two and a half years after the so-called admonition of the Prophet(P) (17:73-5). Can anybody who knows about the Qur'an, its history and revelation, understand and explain how the incident of interpolation was allowed to be tolerated for six years and also why the offensive 'verses' were not abrogated until after nine years?

The implication of this argument is that since the abrogating verses were revealed nine years after the original event, that would mean that for nine years Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession! In other words outright idolatry resulting from compromised monotheistic beliefs. It is therefore quite pretentious to suggest any historicity in the notion that Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession over the span of almost a decade.

I see you are suffering from supreme ignorance. I feel pity for you. The characteristics of the prophets as portrayed in the Bible are:

Who is suffering from that? Read what I asked you: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

But all you could say is the following, which has no bearing with my question. And why that? Because you are sooo biased and know nothing about Islam.

1. Impassioned poetical utterances


2. Intense preoccupation with God, morality and above all, justice


3. An inordinate and fearless compulsion urging him to declare the will of the Almighty.

Jesus prophesied all lot of things, which was prophesied by the prophet of old and he also prophesied everything that is happening today. Muhammed was never a prophet even his wife Aisha confirmed this in the Hadith :

BTW, don't tell me Jesus too was said to be drunk and appearing naked like Noah (Genesis 9:20-24); worshiped false gods like Solomon (1 Kings 11:9-10); committed adultery like David (2 Samuel 11:4-5); to mention but a few of the absurdity and dishonesty of the Biblical accounts of the prophet before Jesus (pbuh).

According to the following hadith, Aisha confirms that Muhammad was not able to predict the future, hence he could not have been a prophet.


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 6.378 Narrated byMasruq
I said to 'Aisha, "O Mother! Did Prophet Muhammad see his Lord?" 'Aisha said, "What you have said makes my hair stand on end ! Know that if somebody tells you one of the following three things, he is a liar: Whoever tells you that Muhammad saw his Lord, is a liar." Then Aisha recited the Verse:
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Courteous Well-Acquainted with all things." (6.103) "It is not fitting for a human being that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration or from behind a veil." (42.51)

You are utterly ignorant. Let me educate you; even bible says God cannot be seen (John 5:37). Whats then your point here?

'Aisha further said,

"And whoever tells you that the Prophet knows what is going to happen tomorrow, is a liar." She then recited:


"No soul can know what it will earn tomorrow." (31.34)
She added: "And whoever tells you that he concealed (some of Allah's orders), is a liar." Then she recited: "O Apostle! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord, " (5.67) 'Aisha added, "But the Prophet saw Gabriel in his true form twice."

LOL!!! Answer the above question, we'll then proceed: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

Tabari 1:181 " The Prophet said 'I was sent immediately before the coming of the
Day of Doom. I preceded it like this one preceding that one' -referring to his index and middle finger"


182 "he said 'Allah will not make this nation [of Islam] incapable of lasting half a day -a day being a thousand years- …Consequently, based upon the Prophet's authority,, what remained of time was half a day that had elapsed to the Prophet's statement corresponds to 6500 years"

[b]Based upon Muhammad's prophecy, Dooms Day should have occurred 500 years after this 'revelation' which occured about 610 AD. Well, as we all know, the year 1110 had passed and we are in the year 2007 AD without the prophecy of the infallible 'Prophet' having come true. Muhammad's alleged prophesies could be counted on one hand none of which ever came true.

Another big lie. Had you any knowledge of what you copied and pasted you would not have come up with this. Thus I let that pass.

The Quran is evil, that is why Muhammedans are all evil. The vidence is there for all to see. Muhammad's Quran is an equal opportunity hatemongering book; not only does it attack and insult the Jews and Christians, but does the same to his own brother & sister Arabs who are supposedly of the UMMA of Muhammad and whom he was attempting to convert. The Quran is against the Christians and Jews. In the so called Quran, Muhammed unilaterally declared war against the Jews and Christians.

This is a thread in itself. I'll be more happy if you start a fresh thread on that topic. . .inshaAllah I'll engage you there.

Where are the judges?

NB:

My response is mainly based on this article

RichyBlacK:
mushin, Muhsin

Umm Rashid did not say anybody should be killed, but that rather that all humans are born Muslim.

So the following follow:

1. We are all born Muslims.
2. Muslims like Abuzola hold the view that apostates must be killed.
3. Apostates are those who have changed their religion (general case), or those who have left Islam for another religion (particular case).
4. All non-Muslims are apostates - they were born Muslims but later changed to some other religion.
5. Muslims like Abuzola hold the view that all non-Muslims must be killed!

Is there something wrong with the above sequence of statements? Thank you.

First of all you, seemingly, do not follow the link I give you. Why?

Secondly, there is of course something wrong in your sequence statement. How? I'll just give you example on item no. 3. Apostates are those who have changed their religion (general case), or those who have left Islam for another religion (particular case).

If you take a good look at that statement, both the "changing" and "leaving" allude intention and willingness and without any misleading. But pls can you tell me how a child changes his/her religion? Does that act involve any peck of intention or willingness? You see?

citizenY:
Muhsin-- let it pass. They want to derail the thread as usual. They do not know nothing about Kano

and cannot contribute meaningfully. The best they can do is turn to mudslinging.

Exactly. Thanks

Nearly all the craps you've stated above have been aptly discussed on this very thread. Any way, for the sake of other readers I'll rebut, refute and debunk every single word you put, inshaAllah. This is the easiest thing as they contain nothing, I mean nothing but sheer illiteracy and stupidity. May Allah, the Exalted, guide you and other ignorant of Islam to the right and straight path, ameen.

focused123:
@Muhsin or Mushin or whatever you call yourself  :

Who cares?

You are most stupid idiot on the surface of the earth. All I see is you denying facts and veracity. slowpoke. I don't think you come from the planet or are you from Muhammed's paradise (hell fire)

Let us see. . . And thanks for the name calling.

All your response are not intelligent at all. I wonder if you have brain in your skull or maybe what is in your skull is saw dust.

Am not even a human; but a robot. Thus forget brain.

I have produced all evidence. All Muhammedans do is deny all facts and veracity. Your deadly cult Islam only strive on denying all facts and blaming others for the problem when you should admit it and solve it.

You rather copied and pasted all nonsense that you naively think are "evidence". Or can you swear that all what you wrote above are your words? I swear I can supply the link where you cut them. . .do you disagree/doubt?

This is the proof :

1) Tabari VI.107 : SATAN CASTS A FALSE REVELATION ON THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH'S TONGUE

The messenger of Allah was eager for the welfare of his people and wished to effect a reconciliation with them in whatever ways he could. It is said that he wanted to find a way to do this, and what happened was a follows. (This section is also omitted by Ibn Hisham, perhaps because he felt it was discreditable to Muhammad).


Ibn Humayd - Salamah-Muhammad b. Ishaq - Yazid b. Ziyad al-Madani - Muhammad b. Ka'b al-Qurazi:
When the messenger of Allah saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from Allah, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from Allah which would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed out, and he debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then Allah revealed:

You are talking of At-Tabari, huh? Lets see what he had to say about his book--Tarikh al-Tabari: Tarikh al-Umam wal-Muluk, where you hurriedly and with gusto go and quote:

Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us

Thus, al-Tabari faithfully displayed these accounts in the exact manner through which he received them. Can he then be held liable if any objectionable accounts should arise? To translate this into laymen's terms, al-Tabari has simply refused accountability by avoiding the task of historical criticism. Therefore, any spurious accounts are not to be attributed to him

53:19 "By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of (his own) desire, "


and when he came to the words:


53:20 Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?


Satan allegedly cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words:


53:21 "These are the high flying cranes;


53:22 verily their intercession is accepted with approval.
(An alternative reading to turtada is turtaja, meaning, "is to be desired or hoped for"

Funny, indeed. Lets see:


Verse 2 : Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
Verse 3 : Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
Verse 4 : It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
Verse 5 : He was taught by one Mighty in Power,

then the Whole Idol intercessor, and Female god theory is Hammered,

Verse 11 : The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.

verse 19 : Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
Verse 20 : And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
Verse 21 : What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

Verse 22 : Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
Verse 23 : These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

No one in their Right minds is going to bang on about any such ideas after reading this surah. . .only delusionists and confusionists like you

When Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from Allah, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake.


When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, following their prophet, trusting in the message which he had brought and following his example.


Those polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the mosque likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer or unbeliever, who did not prostrate himself. The one exception was al-Walid b. Al-Mughirah, who was a very old man and could not prostrate himself; but he took a handful of soil from the valley in his hand and bowed over that. Then they all dispersed from the mosque.


The Quraysh left delighted by the mention of their gods which they had heard, saying, "Muhammad has mentioned our gods in the most favorable way possible, stating in his recitation that they are the high flying cranes and that their intercession is received with approval."

It has been said in the story that the 'Satanic' interpolation occurred in Surah an-Najm (53:19) which delighted the idolators present in the Ka'bah and as a gesture of friendship and good-will, they all bowed down with the Prophet(P). In order to comment on the story it would seem necessary to read the verses in the Qur'an, adding the alleged 'Satanic' verses, and find out what is actually meant to be conveyed here. It would read as follows.

Have ye seen Lat and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? [These are the high-flying ones, whose intercession is to be hoped for!] What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! hese are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! [Qur'an 53:19-23]

If one reads the bold part of the alleged Satanic verses quoted above, one fails to understand how God on the one hand is praising the deities and on the other hand discrediting them by using the subsequent phrases quoted above. It is also difficult to see how the Quraysh leaders drew the conclusion from this chapter that Muhammad(P) as making a conciliatory move and was adopting a policy of give and take.

[2]EVIDENCE FROM SAHIH HADITH THAT MUHAMMAD SPOKE THE SATANIC VERSES -

6.385 Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Surat an-Najm, and all the Muslims and pagans and Jinns and human beings prostrated along with him

What is of note here is that the Hadith states that after Muhammad spoke "The Star", the pagans prostrated.

Who on God's earth in his sense could come up with such a fallacious and fraudulent conclusion? Only misguided people who are terribly biased and unfair. But you may help us out and pin-point where that is said. Period!

FROM THE QURAN -

Al Hajj, 22: 52-53 "Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But Allah abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. Allah is all-knowing and wise. He makes Satan's interjections a temptation for those whose hearts are diseased, whose hearts are hardened ,


The Night Journey, (Al Isra), 17: 73-75 "They sought to entice you from Our revelations - they nearly did - hoping that you might invent some other scripture in Our name, and thus become their trusted friend. Indeed had we not strengthened your faith, you might have made some compromise with them and thus incurred a double punishment in this life and in the next. Then you should have found none to help you against Us."

All of these verses are mentioned in the biographical material. All of them were revealed in relation to Muhammad speaking Satan's words

Had you and the website where you copied and pasted this investigated the chronology of the three revelations relative to the story, you could not possibly have missed the facts related below:

It can easily be gleaned from the story that the incident of reciting the 'Satanic' verses and the consequent prostration of the disbelievers in the Ka'bah happened after the first batch of Muslims had migrated to Abyssinia. This migration, according to all the reliable sources, occurred in the month of Rajab of the fifth year of the Prophetic call or about eight years before the Hijrah to Madinah. Therefore, the incident must have happened close to this date and not long after the migration to Abyssinia.

The verses of Surah al-Isra' (17:73-5) which were revealed, according to the story, to 'admonish' the Prophet(P) for allegedly reciting the 'Satanic' verses, in fact were not revealed until after the event of the Mi'raj. The Mi'raj or the Ascent of the Prophet(P), according to historical sources, occurred in the tenth or eleventh year of the Prophetic call, i.e., two or three years before the Hijrah to Madinah. If this is so, then it implies that the 'Satanic' verses were not detected or for some reason no mention was made about the alleged interpolation of the verses for five or six years and only afterwards was the Prophet(P) admonished for it. Can any sensible person believe that the interpolation occurs today, while the admonition takes place six years later and the abrogation of the interpolated verses is publicly announced after nine years. The relevant verse of Surah al-Hajj (22:52) according to the commentators of the Qur'an was revealed in the first year of Hijrah, i.e., about eight to nine years after the incident and about two and a half years after the so-called admonition of the Prophet(P) (17:73-5). Can anybody who knows about the Qur'an, its history and revelation, understand and explain how the incident of interpolation was allowed to be tolerated for six years and also why the offensive 'verses' were not abrogated until after nine years?

The implication of this argument is that since the abrogating verses were revealed nine years after the original event, that would mean that for nine years Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession! In other words outright idolatry resulting from compromised monotheistic beliefs. It is therefore quite pretentious to suggest any historicity in the notion that Muslims had been asking Lat, Manat and Uzza for intercession over the span of almost a decade.

I see you are suffering from supreme ignorance. I feel pity for you. The characteristics of the prophets as portrayed in the Bible are:

Who is suffering from that? Read what I asked you: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

But all you could say is the following, which has no bearing with my question. And why that? Because you are sooo biased and know nothing about Islam.

1. Impassioned poetical utterances


2. Intense preoccupation with God, morality and above all, justice


3. An inordinate and fearless compulsion urging him to declare the will of the Almighty.

Jesus prophesied all lot of things, which was prophesied by the prophet of old and he also prophesied everything that is happening today. Muhammed was never a prophet even his wife Aisha confirmed this in the Hadith :

BTW, don't tell me Jesus too was said to be drunk and appearing naked like Noah (Genesis 9:20-24); worshiped false gods like Solomon (1 Kings 11:9-10); committed adultery like David (2 Samuel 11:4-5); to mention but a few of the absurdity and dishonesty of the Biblical accounts of the prophet before Jesus (pbuh).

According to the following hadith, Aisha confirms that Muhammad was not able to predict the future, hence he could not have been a prophet.


Sahih Al-Bukhari HadithHadith 6.378 Narrated byMasruq
I said to 'Aisha, "O Mother! Did Prophet Muhammad see his Lord?" 'Aisha said, "What you have said makes my hair stand on end ! Know that if somebody tells you one of the following three things, he is a liar: Whoever tells you that Muhammad saw his Lord, is a liar." Then Aisha recited the Verse:
"No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Courteous Well-Acquainted with all things." (6.103) "It is not fitting for a human being that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration or from behind a veil." (42.51)

You are utterly ignorant. Let me educate you; even bible says God cannot be seen (John 5:37). Whats then your point here?

'Aisha further said,

"And whoever tells you that the Prophet knows what is going to happen tomorrow, is a liar." She then recited:


"No soul can know what it will earn tomorrow." (31.34)
She added: "And whoever tells you that he concealed (some of Allah's orders), is a liar." Then she recited: "O Apostle! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord, " (5.67) 'Aisha added, "But the Prophet saw Gabriel in his true form twice."

LOL!!! Answer the above question, we'll then proceed: By the way, can you tell me is there any verse in the bible where Jesus (pbuh) is said to have knowledge of the future events? Kai or any other prophets?

Tabari 1:181 " The Prophet said 'I was sent immediately before the coming of the
Day of Doom. I preceded it like this one preceding that one' -referring to his index and middle finger"


182 "he said 'Allah will not make this nation [of Islam] incapable of lasting half a day -a day being a thousand years- …Consequently, based upon the Prophet's authority,, what remained of time was half a day that had elapsed to the Prophet's statement corresponds to 6500 years"

[b]Based upon Muhammad's prophecy, Dooms Day should have occurred 500 years after this 'revelation' which occured about 610 AD. Well, as we all know, the year 1110 had passed and we are in the year 2007 AD without the prophecy of the infallible 'Prophet' having come true. Muhammad's alleged prophesies could be counted on one hand none of which ever came true.

Another big lie. Had you any knowledge of what you copied and pasted you would not have come up with this. Thus I let that pass.

The Quran is evil, that is why Muhammedans are all evil. The vidence is there for all to see. Muhammad's Quran is an equal opportunity hatemongering book; not only does it attack and insult the Jews and Christians, but does the same to his own brother & sister Arabs who are supposedly of the UMMA of Muhammad and whom he was attempting to convert. The Quran is against the Christians and Jews. In the so called Quran, Muhammed unilaterally declared war against the Jews and Christians.

This is a thread in itself. I'll be more happy if you start a fresh thread on that topic. . .inshaAllah I'll engage you there.

Where are the judges?

Will he?

Nezan:
@abulbanaat et al;

You will notice that your mods edited this thread, cleverly removing my posts and olabowale's posts in argument, hence bastardizing the thread. I dont think I will continue an argument in which my posts will be so violently raped via cyber-terrorism. I am not interested in arguing with people who are too scared to face up to the truth.

Shallom!

Deceitfulness at its peak!

You've been deploying this whenever you wanna run-away. Wallahi this is very shame of you.

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=340962.msg4784227#msg4784227 date=1256281413]I'm sure it will take a lot of persuasions to convince those almajiris to deny anpp if pdp must win[/quote]What are you talking about?

9ja4eva:
Pat Utomi

The new Mega Party

Am pretty sure other credible guys will want to run.

Well Buhari and Pat Utomi may make difference but the other one is another PDP crooks--a typical wolf in sheep's cloth.

Any way, we should simply remain optimistic. . .but I wonder for how long?