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Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Talking Snake by MuttleyLaff: 6:30pm On Aug 08, 2015

Eddlad:
What is your point?.

Yes, what is your point

menesheh:
I ask a question

and that question was answered with:
Bottom line, by de facto, serpent used to talk
and when it talked, it was not unusual or surprising, so nothing for Adam and Eve to find strange about that
- the ability to talk is one of the charateristics of a serpent
Note serpent is not synonymous with snake especially when considering or taking into account the ''pre-'' and ''post-'' of the event/background

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Talking Snake by MuttleyLaff: 6:22pm On Aug 08, 2015

menesheh:
What's snake in this context

Before replying to ''What's snake in this context''
OR answering
''Why is it that Adam and Eve did not find it strange that a serpent is talking to them?'' why is OP shying from responding to these questions:

1) Apart from ''a serpent is talking'' what other characteristics of this serpent is OP aware of?
2) What are OP's knowledge of the documentated differences between the serpent and the snake?

OP probably has begun to now appreciate having those two questions asked,
because at first look without an attentive eye,
it will/might appear that serpent and snake are interchangeably the same
and without paying careful attention, one is easily lead to believe they are similar, when they are not.

The serpent was animal that was upright, had legs and talked
whereas snake is animal that crawls on its belly, has no legs and cant/doesnt talk

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Talking Snake by MuttleyLaff: 5:39pm On Aug 08, 2015

kolajamesjnr:
Typical african primitive thinking
U believe ur own native cosmology is stupid bt u believe a talking snake

Where is the sauce
and maggi for the ''U believe ur own native cosmology is stewpid'' allegation

menesheh:
If you compare the 'talking snake' fairy to our local fairytales told by our old natives in the village, our Nigeria christians will start opposing you for Blasphemy while there's no difference between the two.
The only known difference is indigenous and foreign

This post reeks of bias and OP's just showed his hand in it

We might as well put this thread to rest, since OP and kolajamesjnr are incorrigible about the right noun to use,
and are sticking to their guns of using talking snake and/or ''talking snake''

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Talking Snake by MuttleyLaff: 5:39pm On Aug 08, 2015

theAtheist101:
@MuttleyLaff

Nice analysis! So, how did you confirm that a serpent used to talk?

Take a pick from these lot
1) Confirmed, the same way, it is believed heads have brains with grey matter in it
2) Well OP said so when he wrote ''Why is it that Adam and Eve did not find it strange that a serpent is talking to them?''
3) Lastly, I confirmed this in accordance with Genesis 3:1-5

Genesis 3:1
The snake was more clever than all the wild animals the LORD God had made.
He asked the woman,
"Did God really say, 'You must never eat the fruit of any tree in the garden'?"

Genesis 3:4
You certainly won't die!" the snake told the woman.

Christianity Etc › Re: Question: Talking Snake by MuttleyLaff: 3:38am On Aug 08, 2015*

menesheh:
why is it that adam and even did not find it strange that a serpent is talking to them?

Notice the bolded underlined in
''Question: Talking Snake''
and
''Why is it that Adam and Eve did not find it strange that a serpent is talking to them?''
The underlined are done, for it to be recognised that, there is a sharp difference and/or distinction between snake and serpent.

Note OP put forward two nouns with verbs (i.e. ''talking snake'' and ''a serpent is talking'')

The nouns in this particular context arent necessarily the same and/or really synonymous with each other

This thread captioned ''Question: Talking Snake'' has a misleading title
and the caption needs changing, as using the verb talking for a snake, is incongruent to it
(i.e. talking is not an action snakes do)

Serpent talking however is an agreeable verb usage for a serpent
(i.e. talking is an action serpent did)

Before answering ''Why is it that Adam and Eve did not find it strange that a serpent is talking to them?'' let OP respond to these questions:

1) Apart from ''a serpent is talking'' what other characteristics of this serpent is OP aware of?
2) What are OP's knowledge of the documentated differences between the serpent and the snake?

OP probably has begun to now appreciate having those two questions asked,
because at first look without an attentive eye,
it will/might appear that serpent and snake are interchangeably the same
and without paying careful attention, one is easily lead to believe they are similar, when they are not.
The serpent was animal that was upright, had legs and talked
whereas snake is animal that crawls on its belly, has no legs and cant/doesnt talk

Numbers 22:28
Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth,
and it said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"

Numbers 22:28
Then the LORD gave the donkey the ability to speak.
"What have I done to you that deserves your beating me three times?" it asked Balaam.

Donkeys dont normally talk, but when the protocol was bypassed, as was the case in Numbers 22:28 & 2 Peter 2:16, this donkey talked

2 Peter 2:16
But Balaam was rebuked for his offense.
A donkey that normally cannot talk spoke with a human voice
and restrained the prophet's insanity

A snake will talk, if like the donkey in Numbers 22:28, it has its mouth opened and/or is given the ability to talk
Bottom line, by de facto, serpent used to talk
and when it talked, it was not unusual or surprising, so nothing for Adam and Eve to find strange about that
- the ability to talk is one of the charateristics of a serpent

2 Likes 1 Share

Christianity Etc › Re: Hillsong Responds To Concerns After Choir Director Comes Out As Gay by MuttleyLaff: 8:32am On Aug 05, 2015

CaptainJune:
Why do people deceive themselves in thinking they can serve God
and still conveniently hold on to their sinful lives as prostitutes, homosexuals, [size=20pt]liars[/size],
drunks, disobedient, wife beaters, deceivers, lesbians, gluttons, womanizers, adulterers, fornicators, strippers, sorcerers, peadophiles, gigolos, idolaters, thieves, and the list goes on...?

If they 're stubborn and will not repent of their evil ways, in my opinion, it were better they don't even waste their time by serving Christ and just focus on living in sin. After all, the Bible said it were better not to have known Him, than to know Him and still fall back in sin.

I guess you dont lie at all, you dont ever lie, even not or dont do ''white lies''
Please am just pulling your leg. Its a tongue-in-cheek post and not to be taken seriously

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Hillsong Responds To Concerns After Choir Director Comes Out As Gay by MuttleyLaff: 5:45am On Aug 05, 2015*

OLAADEGBU:
Hillsong Responds to Concerns After Choir Director Comes Out as 'Gay,' Engaged to Another Member
August 4, 2015 | Filed under: Life & Society,Top Stories | By: Heather Clark

NEW YORK — Reports that a Hillsong choir director (or former choir director) has come out as "gay"
and is engaged to another member has raised controversy nationwide
and has elicited a response from the leader of the international chain of churches.

"I wish to correct reports that Hillsong church has 'an openly gay couple directing a choir' at our New York City campus," Houston wrote.
"Hillsong's position on homosexuality and gay marriage has not changed and is consistent with Scripture.
As I have stated previously, I believe the writings of Paul are clear on this subject."

OLAADEGBU:
Houston added that although the information has come to light,
"We still love them and acknowledge that they—like all of us—are on a journey,
and our role as a church is to assist them on this journey with grace and compassion."

He said in a separate blog post that although homosexuals are welcome to attend the services,
they are not permitted to serve in leadership roles.

ladyF:
Chai

cc RichDad1
[size=20pt]'You never forget the moment
you find out your dad's a paedophile':
Hillsong's Brian Houston tells of the 'devastating' 10 seconds when he realised his father, Frank, was a paedophile[/size]

• Brian Houston found out about the allegations in a regular meeting with the church's general manager George Aghajanian
• 'It's not about you, it's about your father'
• He said it hit him in a 10 second wave
• Mr Houston said he first had to process that his father was homosexual and then he realised he was a paedophile
• On Tuesday, hearing heard victim AHA recall how Frank Houston would lie on, fffondle and masturbate him,
AHA alleged Brian Houston accused him of 'tempting' his father - Houston said he 'refutes' the allegation

Read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2785983/You-never-forget-moment-dad-s-paedophile-Hillsong-s-Brian-Houston-tells-devastating-10-seconds-realised-father-Frank-paedophile.html

http://www.christianpost.com/news/hillsongs-brian-houston-denies-allegations-of-cover-up-in-fathers-child-sex-abuse-case-127907/

Guess its a case of Daddy's chickens came home to roost, isnt it?
Daddy served in leadership position though... but then he wasnt ''openly gay''

Christianity Etc › Re: Please Beware Of This Drink(pictures) by MuttleyLaff: 9:04am On Aug 02, 2015*

Feranmicharles:
https://s28.postimg.org/s22qhfbe1/Monster_Drink.jpg
Beware of this drink

Hi peeps,there's a new drink in town, and people are really drinking it. Before you commence reading, I'd like you to understand the fact that am not here to ruin any business, but if this could stop some people from being derailed, very well then Jesus is here....

This particular drink is called The Monster Drink. Can you also imagine, you drinking Monster

cc INTROVERT, Anamachi3, aoshi, BeeBeeOoh, XTROVAT, jaymejate, hugogerrard, Whizzcute, vheMa, Zohararie, shotster50, emrain, parisbookaddict, herald9, Addietunes, An2elect2, sandyd, Mellin

To be honest with you, I found the brand name repulsive (i.e. monster), it alienated me so I was never attracted, talkess of imagining drinking it

I do understand the marketing ploy and/or advertising ''unleash the beast'' slogan written on the can
Being an energy drink, that it is, the ''unleash the beast'' slogan written on the can
is trying to convey the message that, the content in the can provides mental and physical stimulation when it is opened and drank
Opening the can, unleashes the ''beast'' (i.e. monster drink) which when drank provides mental and physical stimulation

Feranmicharles:
I'll show you some pictures to clarify my facts...

I have always been interested and fascinated by those three green ghoulish looking graphics
The ''monster'' brand name and those three strategically aligned or placed together green ghoulish looking graphics,
which I now know, thanks to you, that they are Hebrew alphabets, have in the first instance always put me off the drink
Though I knew the drink is ''harmless'' but those three green ghoulish graphics looked sinister to me
They looked like "M" but I couldnt help not think that some demonic minds were behind using some form of hidden symbols I wasnt familiar with

Most times, its the clients who briefs or gives the graphic artists an idea of what they want as a logo nd/or the message behind it
Graphic artists can be like Aaron, who brought out a golden calf after throwing the Israelites' gold in the fire, when they asked him to make them a god, a god who freed them from Egypt, to worship
This graphic artist used the Hebrew alphabet strategically aligned or placed together to look like M for Monster Energy drink
and seemingly with some subliminal message or demonic inference behind it as best as he was commissioned

Must say, I am not really big into energy drinks anyways, besides that it looked cheap and second rate compared with ''Red Bull'', so never gave it any thought or consideration

Feranmicharles:
https://s28.postimg.org/7gnypitt5/hebrew_Alphabet.gif https://s8.postimg.org/pzd2sh40h/monster666.jpg

In hebrew alphabet,the 1st pic would show you the sixth alphabet in hebrew called vav,
and which is being used in this drink Thrice.
Which means 666.

What does that implies in your personal view

First, you do know there is a conflict of opinion out there about the number?
The controversy is about whether the ''mark of the beast'' is number 666 or number 616?

Second, these graphic artists use subliminal messaging everywhere.
It's not just in advertising, but it's in music, music videos, movies/film and television, politics

Even in games we play and in the softwares we use, programmers/developers drop and/or hide ''easter eggs''

As for what programmers/developers get up to, try these in any Microsoft Word:

1. Open Microsoft Word
2. Without the quotes, type "NYC" in uppercase letters
3. Change the font size to 72
4. Change the font to webdings
5. Change the font to wingdings

Did you notice the anti-semitic message with the ''encouraging'' thumbs up in #5?

OK, try these and cast your mind back to 911 or September 11 attacks:

1. Open Microsoft Word
2. Without the quotes, type "Q33NY" with the alphabets in uppercase letters
3. Change the font size to 72
4. Change the font to wingdings

It's eerie, isnt it? How did that get in there befor the event took place? Hmm?

The truth is, the devil has done at good job of selling us a red herring and as usual uses the backdoor to slip something in
- Feranmicharles you'll be surprised what the REAL ''mark of the beast'' will boil down to

Feranmicharles:
At the extreme end (bottom) there's something written there boldly "Unleash The Beast

In revelation 13:1,the bible talked about the beast. "And I saw a beast coming out of the sea.
It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

Now a drink is talking about how to unleash the beast which can be also called the drinks name "The Monster Drink

The end is truly near, pls my dear people let's be watchful and careful in anything we do

God bless you all

As Joagbaje rightly suggested, there is no ''harm'' in having this drink
ESPECIALLY, if drunk in moderation and not abused or if not abnormally drunk.
So if energy drink is your thing, fear not, go for it

Colossians 2:16
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink,
or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath

Having agreed with Joagbaje on the part that: ''Nothing will happen. It's just a drink'',
it must be said that though the ''end is truly near, we dear people need to be watchful and careful in anything we do''
the ''Seal of God'' and the ''Mark of the beast'', however, as we all know, are BOTH NOT physical seals or marks
They BOTH have to do with ''what you think with the head'' and ''what you do with the hand''

https://s15.postimg.org/x50z3l6tj/Seal_Naija.jpg
^{Seal of the President of Nigeria}

Seals are about authenticity, validation etcetera
Authenticity is about genuineness, prove it's not fake etcetera
Validation means something is right something is done right, some one is doing/has done something right
Unlike like the Naija President's seal above which is a physical seal, 'the 'Seal of God'' and the ''Mark of the beast'' is a spiritual one

MARK this - sorry for the ''MARK'' pun, it wasnt intentional,
Now, MARK this, ''Seal of God'' and the ''Mark of the beast'' will be important and be a deciding factor when the terrible time comes
''Seal of God'' or the ''Mark of the beast'' separates the sheep from the goats

Trust me, for anyone around at that time, fight or flight WOULDN'T BE an option.
One will have to make or be forced to make the stand, by choosing life or death,
it'll be more like Daniel in the Lion's Den or a Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego déjà vu
(i.e. comply and self-preserve OR do not comply and be killed)

Am curious to know which bank(s) Joagbaje uses when he flies abroad, as he said and I quote:
''But the antichrist may own the company to start projecting his brand.
So if it's true, the only concern is that we are using our money to sponsor the enemy brand''
Joagbaje will be surprised how far the ''antichrist'' has spread, how far its tentacles reach and how he already has been sponsoring the ''enemy'' brand in more ways than one

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Doctors Can Now Give Amputees Real Hands, When God Cannot. by MuttleyLaff: 10:38pm On Aug 01, 2015

BabaGnoni:
There is no satisfying you lot

By the way, it is wrong to seek only what God can do (e.g. grow back amputated limbs)

and not seek God Himself or be truly interested in Him at all

Just this bit, short, calling y'all: evil and godless people of this day, asking for a miracle as a sign

Bet y'all are part of the lot that were waiting to sprout wings before the prospect of flying in air

God has already done His bit of depositing in us, the skills and possibility of growing back amputated limbs

He is waiting on us, to activate the & that part of the brain which will trigger or kick-start growing back amputated limbs now or in a future event.

Maybe that person holding back and holding the miracle up for everyone else is YOU!

Re: Is It Impossible For God To Grow Back Amputated Limbs?
https://www.nairaland.com/1575662/it-impossible-god-grow-back#20600275

BabaGnoni:
Reiterating growing back amputated limbs is one such miracle you wont get at the pulpit or from crusades

Just as flying in the air as we do now, did not originate from the pulpit nor come from crusades, revivals or what-not

God is not in the business of directly or personally growing back amputated limbs at the pulpit, from crusades, revivals or what-not.

Still wondering why God would hold back that one miracle (i.e. grow back amputated limbs?)

Well, it is because He is abiding by His word or rules, one of which is:
Let them, man; have dominion, take dominion over the earth; dominion as in control et cetera

Achieving this miracle and others (e.g. growing back amputated limbs, growing back any or all of the 32 adult permanent teeth et cetera) is going to be realised via people (i.e. man) in the medical field, sector or arena

Re: Is It Impossible For God To Grow Back Amputated Limbs?
https://www.nairaland.com/1575662/it-impossible-god-grow-back#20605227

BabaGnoni:
⁴⁸But Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"
⁴⁹When those who were around Him saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, shall we strike with the sword?
⁵⁰And one of them struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his right ear.
⁵¹But Jesus answered and said,
"Stop! No more of this."
And He touched his ear and healed him.
- Luke 22:48-51

Note in Luke 22:51 Jesus did not regrow that severed ear but rather He re-attached it back.
Jesus on a separate occasion spit on the eyes of one man to heal him
Jesus on a another occasion spit on the ground and mixed the spit with dirt, then smeared the dirt on another man's eyes to heal him
- Spontaneity. No formula. He simply just did it, for being God that He is.
- Wow, Jesus spitting and mixing dirt, am sure, He was re-living the "creating Adam, in Eden" experience,

Of course, who wouldnt want their children to surpass or excel more than they did, and it is happening, only that people are expectant and looking for all, some or certain miracles in wrong places

As always, some miracles will be at pulpit (e.g. cancer healed, liver regrow, headache gone etc), other miracles (e.g. reattach limbs, regrow body parts etc) will happen legitimately elsewhere (e.g. medically etc)
- the thing is everything is bounded by rules. God can bypass the rule, He is allowed but we have to wrought out miracles within the confines of the rules

Perform these miracles according to the rules, else, whatever miracles are wrought will be as demonic Pharaoh's wise men snakes

So, essentially, I was merely keeping track of the progress and updates that the miracles are slowly but surely showing up
What is happening now, 2000 years later, are miracles (i.e. growing organs note not reattaching organs) never done/performed before

Aw c'mon now, when crying, tears doesn't impair ones vision now, (i.e. ti a ba nsunkun, a ma riran)
We all grown and should've been taken off milk long time, and already be, by now cutting our teeth, gnawing meat

Also it was once advised, to research into Greek Aorist participles to understand and know the implications, meaning, prophetic, fulfil etc of John 14:12, Mark 16:18, Acts 28:5 etc
- The NT was originally written in Greek na, why doesn't anyone want to read on "Greek Aorist Tenses" to understand and know about the grammar and constructs in the Greek texts

nuwell my foot's taken off the pedal, the boat's steady and no more rocking it

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/25#27181149

Dapo777 to put it politely, no one is taking this thread seriously
and to save you wondering why, it's because it's a ''beating-a-dead-donkey'' thread
Johnny-Come-Lately thread after the music stopped playing and well after the party's over

The thread has no current value,
that is why apart from TDonald, thorpido, kay1one2, Eddlad, Hiploko and Anas09, folks are scarce commenting on the thread

Anas09 is right in hinting that someone's still rocking the clueless helmet put on before uploading this thread
and punching above their weight.

Must admit you're having a great ball and in good company of menesheh, krattoss, joe4christ, plaetton, Weah96 and johnydon22
Break a leg!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Did "Jesus" Tell A "LIE"??? by MuttleyLaff: 10:40pm On Jul 28, 2015*

WhoIBe:
Moses died on a mountain top which God showed him, his body was not found i think if it was found the Isrealites might decide to worship and God made the body dissapear, although it is not stated like that in the Bible, its my thought due to frequent studies. So their is no issue of teleporting with Moses
I believe teleporting is when someone dissappears from one spot and appear in another place, But that is not the issue with Jesus, He was seen going up,

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted ( Matt 4:1)
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness ( Luke 4 :1 )
He did not dissappear nor teleport, he went there. You can be led to pray for someone does not mean you teleport. Also the boat in the sea, when you welcome Jesus in your life you are quick to reach your goals that I know is the meaning of the boat scene, Jesus quickens but not teleporting even if you call it teleporting to show how quick it was, not a bad idea.

If you see me going somewhere you can not say i am teleporting but when I dissappear all of a sudden you can say that
but not in the case of Jesus ascending to heaven because you could see him if you were there. Jesus met the apostles and showed himself to Thomas (Doubting Thomas ) showing the nail pierced hands now you can say telporting, Enoch was taken (teleported ) to heaven and maybe Elijah also but not Moses or Jesus............ The use of teleporting is for you to understand, its more than that anyway

Seems my post didnt quite turn out the way it was intended
What it was saying is that Jesus teleported and a few others before and after Him got teleported too,
however when Jesus went to heaven it was an ascension and not a teleportation

In the previous post, I gave a few examples of teleporting
Moses died on Mount Horeb and died there, in an unmarked grave to prevent the Israelites of making shrine of the spot/place
Enoch walked with God and one day got teleported to another place on earth
Elijah was teleported with great fanfare using a chariot of fire and horses of fire
Ezekiel, in a vision was teleported
Paul, was teleported to the third heavens, and using his words, Paul said, he was snatched
Philip suddenly got teleported and the Ethiopian eunuch saw him no more. Philip later found himself at Azotus, about 30 miles away.

Asides the earlier Jesus mentions of teleporting (e.g. Jesus teleported Himself, the disciples and the boat that it suddenly appeared at shore, Jesus was teleported when He suddenly appeared in the wilderness for testing)
Jesus before ascending to heaven, teleported through the door/wall and suddenly appeared before the disciples when they were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders

Enoch walked with God, and then he disappeared because God took him away - Genesis 5:24 (i.e. Enoch was teleported)

But as soon as I leave you, the Spirit of the LORD will carry you away to who knows where.
When Ahab comes and cannot find you, he will kill me.
Yet I have been a true servant of the LORD all my life - 1 Kings 18:12 (i.e. Obadiah knowing about Elijah being teleported)

And the Spirit lifted me up and took me away,
and I went in bitterness, in the heat of my spirit;
but the hand of the LORD was strong upon me - Ezekiel 3:14 (i.e. Ezekiel when teleported)

At once the Spirit brought him into the desert - Mark 1:12 (i.e. Jesus was teleported)

That Sunday evening the disciples were meeting behind locked doors because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders.
Suddenly, Jesus was standing there among them!
"Peace be with you," he said - John 20:19 (i.e. Jesus teleports into room)

I know a follower of Christ who was snatched away to the third heaven fourteen years ago.
I don't know whether this happened to him physically or spiritually. Only God knows - 2 Corinthians 12:2 (i.e. Paul when teleported)

When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away,
and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing - Acts 8:39 (i.e. Philip was teleported)

Echoing a line from last post, as WhoIBe said, we sometimes mistake teleporting for ascending into heaven,
even after what Jesus confirmed in John 3:13 that no one has ever gone into heaven except Him

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

Bottom line here, is that not one person, except Jesus, initiated any of these teleportations
God used teleportations to expressly move Enoch, Elijah, Ezekiel, Paul and Philip about
Jesus (i.e. God the Son) used teleportation to move Himself and others (e.g. the disciples and the boat incident)
Teleportation is not a spiritual gift and that is why God doesnt prescribe it as a personal way or means of moving oneself about

Christianity Etc › Re: Did "Jesus" Tell A "LIE"??? by MuttleyLaff: 8:54am On Jul 28, 2015

kinggenesis:
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came
down from heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even
the Son of man which is in heaven"(John 3:13).

If Jesus is in heaven, how can he be down on earth speaking?

Moreover, according to 2 Kings 2:11 "and Elijah went up by a
whirlwind into heaven"

Jesus was not the only person to ascend into heaven, nor was he the first.

Elijah preceded him and apparently Enoch did also ("And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him"--Genesis 5:24).

WhoIBe:
That is the power of God. Because you do not understand it does not make it a lie.
Elijah and Enoch did not ascend but they were taken up by God, Only Jesus ascended,
be careful to distinguish between terms, every one saw as Jesus was going up small small until they could see him no more.
Just know that God is God and He can do what He say will do, you pray so to receive the Holy Spirit
and He will guide you unto all truth although you have to be born again first.
So do the needful and be happy

cc Tallesty1

Asides the usual rhetorics (e.g. that God is God and He can do what He say will do)
when trying to explain what happened to Elijah or Enoch and why Moses' body was never found, teleporting has always being vaguely mentioned in the Bible, just as happened to Elijah, Enoch or Moses before, Jesus too was teleported at least twice in the Bible.
He was teleported into the desert to be tempted by the satan
He, Jesus and the fishing boat were teleported to the shore
There are other examples apart from these two of teleporting in the Bible

As WhoIBe said, we sometimes mistake teleporting for ascending into heaven, even after what Jesus confirmed in John 3:13

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

Christianity Etc › Re: TV Was Once Evil.... by MuttleyLaff: 8:08am On Jul 28, 2015

Hiploko:
Just discussing with my friends this morning.
As children growing up, we heard of how Deeper life members were not allowed to watch and own televisions.
So surprising how things have evolved such that all of their branches now have same TV with satelite facilities to watch the GO preach.
What changed Cos God didn't change. Many members then would have died with the assumption that TV is evil... Moral of this jist.....
Beliefs have the power to make or mar us all.
So many churches abound these days people people understand the SAME bible differently.
May God direct us aright.

cc PROPHETmichael

''People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer''
- Andrew Smith

It isnt surprising that people are afraid of things they don't understand.
We fear things we don't know how to relate to,
it worsens, especially if perceived as a threat to our ideologies, our security, our existence, image

All things are relative and have to be considered before tagged as absolutely evil

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Is TB Joshua Hiding In Mexico? by MuttleyLaff: 10:53pm On Jul 26, 2015

Candour:
Hello vooks, true to your predictions, it seems your 'friend' TBJ is gone for good...

Or his god has called him for service in the americas??

[size=3pt]where the long arms of the law cannot reach?[/size]

Doesnt Nigeria have "Extradition Treaty" with Mexico where the "long arm of the law" or Ambode's can touch/reach him ni?

Christianity Etc › Re: (PHOTO) BREAKING NEWS: Real Life Fallen Angel Has Fallen From The Sky by MuttleyLaff: 9:04pm On Jul 26, 2015*

talentarena:
BREAKING NEWS: Real Life Fallen Angel Has Fallen From The Sky»»
http://cynthiamorgansblog.com/breaking-news-real-life-fallen-angel-has-fallen-from-the-sky/

tpiadotcom:
@ op
What are you trying to say?

An2elect2:
You see why some people think we are stupid

Raymondenyi:
Obviously photoshopped or a scene from a movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u65YRcFerxY
Expected a better Cynthia PR image coming from Joy than this
It's all about the BJs, getting traffic to monetised blogs etc isnt it

Have to say though that Raymondenyi won the best comment award so far

Anyway lurved this advert when it first came out

Angels taking off their halos after falling from the sky and falling for the scent of Lynxx
Notice the Mercedes Benz taxi driver screeched stop, come out and jaw droppingly blurt "Mama Mia!"
The lady hanging her laundry was cut short
The blind man even sensed the walking by angel
The okada or motorcyclist who almost somersaulted on sighting
The man talking at the phone booth and then rendered speechless

Shame this fallen Angel advert got banned, thanks to one pissed off "Christian" who made a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority,
claiming it is offensive, "specifically over the idea that angels would forsake their divinity for aerosol cologne"

Must say without relating to the advert ban, I stopped using Lynxx more than or over 10-15 years ago

Christianity Etc › Re: If Truely,you Are A Christian Answer This Bible Quiz! by MuttleyLaff: 8:49am On Jul 26, 2015*

seemples:
^^^ ok...Na structured lie

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif
seemples my padi!
You've actually just obfuscated your reply more with this your "Na structured lie" response
Which one be "Na structured lie" again now?
Try and be more specific than just saying "Na structured lie"

You do know Jesus is Jewish
and that he originally ALWAYS taught & preached in Aramaic/Hebrew

Christianity Etc › Re: If Truely,you Are A Christian Answer This Bible Quiz! by MuttleyLaff: 8:12am On Jul 26, 2015

seemples:
^^^ Na lie

Would prefer you to be specific.
That apart, I wish you read the whole post and put more thought into it before blurting out "Na lie"

Christianity Etc › Re: If Truely,you Are A Christian Answer This Bible Quiz! by MuttleyLaff: 7:41am On Jul 26, 2015*

cc bossmeround, therealdeal10

Successimpactld:
https://s9.postimg.org/60w5v2e4r/crowed.jpg
If truely,you are a christian answer this bible quiz!

Who Was The Owner Of The Ccock That Crowed When Peter Denied Jesus 3 Times?
Good question, only that there was no literal ccock that crowed,
so therefore, there is no owner, and consequently no name for the owner of an imaginary ccock.

Asking important questions like these, changes teachings done in error
and bursts wide open Christian misconceptions or misrepresentations

We all know the New Testament was written 100-300 years after Jesus Christ died
and it is important questions like these that makes one realise that there's quite a whole deal more in the Bible than meets the eyes
also that a lot got lost in translations from Aramaic/Hebrew to Greek, Greek and to English due to not being familiar with Aramaic/Hebrew/Jewish words idioms, customs, Temple activities etc

Anyway to start with no fowls (i.e. ccocks) were allowed in Jerusalem in those times, so no one owned (i.e. ccocks) and so there aren't owners of fowls (i.e. ccocks) in Jerusalem then

Without bogging you down or boring you with too much details, the rooster or fowl (i.e. ccock) in the original Aramaic/Hebrew form used by Jesus is the Aramaic/Hebrew word "gever", "geber", "gaver" or "gawra".

This word (i.e. "gever", "geber", "gaver" or ''gawra'') is mistranslated
and in both Greek and English languages, it ended up being mistranslated or mis-tagged to mean our feathered friend, fowl, ccock, or "cóck-a-doodle-doo Mr Rooster"

Anyway, from here on, I am sticking to using only "gever" for the rest of this post.

Now, "gever" is man.
"Gever" means man and as far as this post is concerned, one wont be far from the truth, if one assumes, this man to be like a town crier,
but there is more to it, as the man actually is like the Muslims' muezzin, the man who from the mosque's tower, announces the time for prayers and the call to Muslims for prayer and worship services

The "gever" as a matter of fact, as opposed to being a "town crier" or "Muslims' muezzin" actually is the Temple Crier
In the temple courtyard, just like the "Muslims' muezzin" does, the Temple Crier's priestly duty is to call out to begin service
and he would announce or call out something, similar to the following effect:
"Rise up, all the priests, to your service, prepare to sacrifice!"
"All the Levites to your stations!"
"All the Israelites to your posts, come to worship!"

It was this priest’s call to service, made in the temple courtyard or from the temple courtyard and not far from the "kangaroo court" where Jesus Christ was being interrogated, that was heard by Peter and not the sound of a crowing fowl (i.e. not the sound of a crowing ccock)

Jesus, in effect prophesied that before the "gever" (i.e. the Temple Crier or man) makes the announcement (i.e. phóneó - to call out) for service, Peter would have denied him three times and as we all know, this prophecy came to pass, just as prophesied, it got fulfilled to a tee.

Imagine this in your mind. Trust, we all would agree, how heart wrenching and painfully torn between the conscience, it would be for one, if immediately after denying Jesus, one heard this call to prepare to sacrifice, call to service and called to be at a post which one has three times denied and vacated. This is exactly what happened, what Peter experienced and felt

Matthew 26:75
Suddenly, Jesus' words flashed through Peter's mind:
"Before the ~~man~~ rooster ~~calls~~ ~~out~~ crows, you will deny three times that you even know me."
And he went away, weeping bitterly.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why You Should Honor God’s Ministers by MuttleyLaff: 11:20pm On Jul 21, 2015

Image123:
Like i said, i do not know any examples, i simply gave reasons and permissions in cultural context.
ML already gave examples about the Pope or so washing feet.
Feet washing or not is nothing, it can well pass off for a ceremony and not necessarily humility,
it could also be humility and honour. God sees the heart.

What was Jesus teaching with this washing of feet thing, what did it primarily or solely have anything to do with?
humility? honour? humility and honour? nothing at all as it is just a ceremony?

Jesus wasnt teaching literal feet washing as such but was teaching humility towards each other
He was demonstrating to them one of the ways of having a modest or low view of one's importance.
Big-man-ism has no place in the new structure, body, He was about setting up

Lets try and remember the antics the disciples were up to prior to the feet washing event
They were squabbling over importance, over who will be the "big man"
Must have been a shock to them after the arguments,
to see Jesus bend and kneel like a servant, towel over His shoulder, starting to wash dusty feet

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why You Should Honor God’s Ministers by MuttleyLaff: 8:41am On Jul 21, 2015*

vooks:
Am looking for examples of Jesus among Pentecostals where pastors wash disciples feet.

Just as those of the Pope washing feet, there are examples of Jesus among Pentecostals too, where pastors wash members' feet

vooks:
Hard to come by.

No, not really hard to come by as there are
but wouldnt necessarily say so in West or East Africa, as it doesnt look like a money making venture so its not a teaching to take advantage of

vooks:
So while such an obvious example is IMPOSSIBLE to find, the reverse, disciples washing and oiling their pastors feet in the name of honor abounds. Looks like Holy Spirit 'leads' them against Jesus teachings

The obvious example and the reverse are out there but not sure if members washing and oiling their pastors feet is about honouring.
If its about honoring, then it goes against the letter and spirit of the lesson and example set
Washing feet as done by Jesus was a demonstration and one of an example of service and has nothing remotely to do with honoring

vooks:
Why I question culture is because this peculiar habit especially among Negroes of Nigerian mould is restricted to some strands of Christianity. Culture I would have guessed would transcend religions but alas it is peculiarly Christian. Nigerian Muslims never wash their sheikhs' feet yet nobody would accuse them of not honoring them.

I have no idea or knowledge of members washing their pastor's feet in Nigeria. If there are, then its news to me

Christianity Etc › Re: Please Who Can Help Me On This Bible Chapters? by MuttleyLaff: 10:24pm On Jul 20, 2015

OgundeleT:
PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
This chapter is somehow contradictory to me please I need somebody to help me out
SHOULD I ANSWER A FOOL OR NOT? BECAUSE THIS CHAPTER IS CONFUSING ME

There really isnt any need for anyone to help
The two verses are self explanatory,
thorpido rightly mentioned "timing"
ibkgab001 rightly agreed with philiancoop mentioning that "under guidance one will know when to apply/use which verse"
psucc rightly mentioned "wisdom"
Appleyard rightly re-echoed thorpido's similar "application of wisdom"

OgundeleT, to start with the style of writing used in Proverbs 26:4-5 is called antithesis
The seemingly two contrasting verses are intentionally written that way, one after the other
It is done this way, to emphasize the difference between the two advices conveyed in the verses

There is a difference, that difference is "when and when not to"

"when and when not to" is a decision making thing
Get the decision making thing right, it is becomes wisdom, as a good decision was made
Get it or the timing wrong wrong, it becomes foolishness, as a bad decision or timing was made

Fool in the Bible doesn't necessarily have a derogatory slant to it
What it means is the person has made bad or wrong decisions about something
Taking, adopting, supporting bad or wrong decisions makes one foolish, taking good or right decisions makes one look wise

You're right the verses are contradictory but that is what antithesis is all about
It will take "wisdom" as in knowing when to make good or right decisions on which of the two verses one needs to apply its advice

Proverbs 26:4
Don't answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are.

^^^
The above verse means, decide when not to answer someone who has made a bad decision over an opinion etc else you get roped into his world of bad decision making

Proverbs 26:5
Be sure to answer the foolish arguments of fools, or they will become wise in their own estimation.

^^^
The above verse means, decide when to answer someone who has made a bad decision over an opinion etc, if not the delusion wont be checked

As seen it will take a wise person to know when to apply the advice in Proverbs 26:4 or when to use the one in Proverbs 26:5
Wisdom is all about decision making, making the right or correct decision at a particular moment or relevant time

As for "SHOULD I ANSWER A FOOL OR NOT?"
will say pick and choose your battles, choose your battles wisely, decide when or when not ...

Christianity Etc › Re: JOKE: Jesus Allegedly Hanged His Daughter In The Air by MuttleyLaff: 9:15am On Jul 20, 2015

Rilwon:
So, I was chatting with an old member of this forum sometimes ago. He is an old man precisely, and he made a statement that got me astounded that day. In the pithy aphorism, he said:
"If not for Jesus, I would have lost one of my twin girls from falling from a storey-building but was suspended on the air at the shout of Jesus. "

How true is this? And how was she later released from the air? I have only watched this happen in 'shaolin soccer',

You should have asked him to elaborate on the suspension part
as "suspended on the air at the shout of Jesus" could economically mean miraculously suspended in the air, hanging, with her clothes caught on a pole or railings. She defied the law of gravity when she hung in the air after her clothing got caught on a pole or railing

Rilwon:
can we say this Statement was as a result of watchin chinese film?

Old men dont like talking too much or talk unnecessarily unless if interest is shown.
He was economical with the truth hoping you'll press him further for more information but you didnt
You rather went the way of sarcasm and ridiculing the old man about him watching Chinese fims

Christianity Etc › Re: Why You Should Honor God’s Ministers by MuttleyLaff: 7:07am On Jul 20, 2015

vooks:
Jesus washed the disciples' feet not the other way round. Let's get specific.
Do you find anything odd with members washing their pastors' feet?

It shouldnt be odd if the pastor too like Jesus washed the members' feet

vooks:
If they were following any script from Jesus, it should be the other way round

They will be following Jesus' cue and be strongly influenced by His "you also should wash one another’s feet" words
It's not a one-way or just "the other way round" but is a vice versa thing to do (i.e. done by both the giver and receiver of feet washing)

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why You Should Honor God’s Ministers by MuttleyLaff: 9:57pm On Jul 19, 2015*

Image123:
i wouldn't 'judge' any context and culture/norm, but if you mean to assess or determine personally, as far as it does not directly contravene God's revealed will, we should be led by the Spirit of God

Fair comment especially if it is not an imposition
and it does not directly contravene God's revealed will or is as the spirit leads

Image123:
For 4 and 5, i do not know anyone honoured thus

As for #4, before the papal tradition is that anyone having audience with the Pope kneels, kisses one of his slippers and bows to him.
The kissing of the pope's slippers part has stopped, because in 1969, Paul VI outrightly discontinued the custom of kissing the papal foot

https://s15.postimg.org/qn1cepba3/Pope_Francisfeet.jpg
The departure and indifference to papacy protocol seen in the above pic is very interesting and peculiar to the incumbent Pope.

As for #5, I too do not know anyone honoured thus
but know of people taking off shoes in places of worship and/or bow to their "holy books" touching the floor with the foreheads

Image123:
It might possibly be some culture, i don't know

It can be cultural, especially in countries with subtropical or tropical climates

Image123:
But i know that in some places, people remove their shoes out of 'respect' when they visit certain places and even houses.

Yeah, you'll be surprised, that "remove their shoes out of 'respect' when they visit certain places and even houses" is out of respect for the cleanliness and hygiene of the newly laid grey or light coloured carpet.
Dont want to leave dirty shoes print marks all over the carpet or smear it with shoe dirt, which will cost a lot of time, effort & money to clean up
nor do you want to transfer disease-causing organisms from muck under the shoes and spread germs about with them

Image123:
As for feet washing,

Who likes the waft of smelling feet or the smell of stinky feet
Apart from fetish reasons, no one does
It is an act of humility for a senior to bend down and carry out feet washing
especially if imagined how feet stinks in humid or arid areas

Luke 22:26 and Mark 10:44-45 is a lesson about humility
It is in conjuction with John 13:3-17 where Jesus was teaching the disciples about service (i.e. the action of helping or doing work for someone) and humility when He washed their feet

Luke 22:26
But among you it will be different.
Those who are the greatest among you should take the lowest rank, and the leader should be like a servant.

Mark 10:44-45
⁴⁴Whoever wants to be most important among you will be a slave for everyone.
⁴⁵It's the same way with the Son of Man. He didn't come so that others could serve him.
He came to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many people."

Image123:
it is a thing of honour in some cultures, and the Peter felt it was so.
People used to do it to honour guests.

Peter knew it is "a thing of honour" which is below a senior or host
as they leave such unpleasant and distasteful tasks for the lower in rank or position, the household or auxiliary staff to carry out on guests

https://s4.postimg.org/a67trk9st/washingfeet.jpg
^{Picture of Pope Francis kneeling down and washing feet}

but here is Jesus in John 13:14, saying in area of service, nothing is unbefitting and the disciples should learn from the example he just set
(i.e. washing feet in a humid climate can be very repugnant, revolting, disgusting and offensive to the nose especially when it's stinky or smelly feet)

John 13:12-16
¹²When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place.
“Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them.
¹³“You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
¹⁴Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet.
¹⁵I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you.
¹⁶Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.
¹⁷Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them

The original text in Hebrew about humble in regards to Moses in Numbers 12:3, is very interesting,
as it means "be put down or become low, be lowly subsmissive, concern one, also be occupied by or be occupied with and undergo affliction"

The original text in Greek about humble in regards to Jesus in Matthew 11:29, is equally very interesting too,
as it means "lowly, in position or spirit (in a good sense)"

Moses was brought low and occupied by/with the Israelites. Jesus was brought low and occupied by/with us,
but when Pharaoh in Exodus 10:3, refused to come down from his high horse
and wanted nothing to do with being occupied by/with the Israelites
he had a first-hand experience of the former part of “God humbles the proud and he gives grace to the humble.”

Christianity Etc › Re: Does Pogatry Truely Exist by MuttleyLaff: 7:34pm On Jul 19, 2015

italo:
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin." From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

https://i57.tinypic.com/34sp9j4.gif

Christianity Etc › Re: Does Pogatry Truely Exist by MuttleyLaff: 7:07pm On Jul 19, 2015

FrancisTony:
Psalm 66:12
Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.

This verse was considered a proof of purgatory by Origen[4] and St. Ambrose, [5] who posits the water of baptism and the fire of purgatory.

Ecclesiastes 12:14
For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.

Isaiah 4:4
When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgement and by a spirit of burning.(see also Isaiah 1:25-26)

St. Francis de Sales, the great Catholic apologist of the 16th century, commented on this verse as follows:
This purgation made in the spirit of judgment and of burning is understood of Purgatory by St. Augustine, in the 20th Book of theCity of God,chapter 25. And in fact this interpretation is favoured by the words preceding, in which mention is madeof the salvation of men.

italo:
We all know that purgatory is real, thats why we all have religious funerals for our dead family members.
That's why we all pray: "May his/her soul rest in peace."

If the person is in heaven, the person would already be resting in peace, so that prayer would be meaningless.

If the person is in hell, the person would already be burning, without any chance of resting in peace, so that prayer would be meaningless.

But if the person is in purgatory, the prayer for his speedy release to heaven makes perfect sense.

Both posters quoted above have interesting remarks here
but let's forget "purgation" for a while and tackle purgatory as a concept or doctrine taught
1) What is purgatory, what place is it, who ends up there?
2) Where are the "dead in sin" now?
3) What is distinct between purgatory, Sheol and the Lake of Fire?
4) When does purgation kick in or when does it start (i.e. at what point of time does this happen)?
5) Can one really pray for the dead, is performing "last rites" for the dying or praying for the dead without contrite conviction fruitfrul at all?

Christianity Etc › Re: Does Pogatry Truely Exist by MuttleyLaff: 6:06pm On Jul 19, 2015*

chidiebere2020:
Guys and ladies lets be sinceer we were told dat pogatry is real and i hav neva seen oda church preachn abt it, my question is does pogatry truely exist

It will be great if you dont mind telling what purgatory is
Also share your personal understanding of what purgatory is all about and why it allegedly exists

ahsekeena:
Purgatory doesn't exist.
I stand to be corrected, if anyone can provide proof.

kossyablaze:
Hmmm I dunno

Providing proofs aside, think italo, Syncan, Ubenedictus or OREMUSSANCTUS are the best to throw more light on this purgatory matter.

Assault:
The bible tells us abt heaven & hell so thr existence isn't far fethced,
& all man shall be judged & sent to heaven or Hell... So pls wr did the bible EVER mentioned pourgatory ?
It sure doesn't exist, I belive its a mytheological church doctrene.

Quite a few other things arent mentioned in the bible but they do exist
however I do agree with you that this is a "pagan" concept,
it is a crept-in-"pagan"-concept-turned doctrine embraced and adopted by whosoever practises it

This practice and any teaching that the fate of those in a purgatory can be affected by the actions (i.e. prayers) of the living, gives false hope to the dead

One cant pray to the dead, nor can the dead be prayed or paid for (i.e. indulgences)

Though Psalm 49:6 and 1 Timothy 2:5 both clearly disagrees with it,
the below excerpt is Johann Tetzel boasting that he saved more souls by indulgences than the Apostle Peter by his preaching:

I would not exchange my privileges for those of St. Peter in heaven;
for I have saved more souls by my indulgences than the apostle by his sermons...
at the very instant that the money rattles at the bottom of the chest
the soul escapes from purgatory and flies liberated to heaven"
(D'Aubigne's History of the Reformation, Vol. 1, p. 241-242)

Psalm 49:6
Certainly a man cannot rescue his brother; he cannot pay God an adequate ransom price

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one intermediary between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human,

This is funny, as ironically, Johann Tetzel was preaching indulgences to aid the construction of St. Peter's at Rome
Johann Tetzel was later labelled as having extremist views in regards to purgatory and/or indulgences, by the authorities he was under or representing,
was abandoned and left hang to dry after the Martin Luther onslaughts on the subject

As said earlier, italo, Syncan, Ubenedictus or OREMUSSANCTUS perhaps are best, to throw more light on purgatory or to make clarifications on it.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why You Should Honor God’s Ministers by MuttleyLaff: 11:30am On Jul 19, 2015*

esere826:
Using the English definition of HUMBLE just like you have
(... make I no use original Hebrew translation and root because I no sabi am)

The original Hebrew translation is actually quite revealing

esere826:
suggests that the leader is perceived to accrue to himself less of the privileges/power/visibility than he would otherwise be able to have
You are right

You and I might not be under the influence of these leaders alright
but perhaps, their followers call them humble because they are placed on very high pedestals by the followers
to the extent that if the leader asks to slap them, they would oblige
so here comes the leader instead of slapping the follower, requests only that his feet be washed
..."wow, the leader is so humble" they'd say

There is this warped idea done the rounds, unchecked about what biblical humility and humbleness really is all about.

Moses was called the most humble man on earth.
Jesus said: "I am HUMBLE and gentle at heart"
Why and under what circumstances or background are they humble?
Do any of these "so called humble leaders" share any the of circumstances or background Moses or Jesus went through?

Luke 22:26
But among you it will be different.
Those who are the greatest among you should take the lowest rank, and the leader should be like a servant.

Mark 10:44-45
⁴⁴Whoever wants to be most important among you will be a slave for everyone.
⁴⁵It's the same way with the Son of Man. He didn't come so that others could serve him.
He came to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many people."

esere826:
So I guess humility has a lot to do with what is being measured against, and by whom

I guess, humility has more to do with what the various verses in the Bible advertises humility or humble to be
Verses such as Philippians 2:3 (i.e. my favourite of all) Psalms 25:9, Galatians 5:13, 1 Peter 5:5, Proverbs 3:34, James 4:6, 1 Peter 3:8 etcetera

Also it will be interesting to compare and contrast another side of an absence of "humble" in Exodus 10:3

Christianity Etc › Re: Sir, Pastor Or Daddy, Which Is Scriptural. by MuttleyLaff: 11:16am On Jul 19, 2015

phoneport:
And why should an elderly man and women of about 60 and above be call a young pastor of 28 to 35 years, daddy.

"an elderly man and women of about 60 and above calling a young pastor of 28 to 35 years, daddy"
is what is known in the field, as the Discovery of Ignorance

phoneport:
I find it not scriptural a times because some of this young y2k pastors are now taking it too much, and will even demand it from members.

Pride and conceit? There is nothing new under the sun

We need to remember what Jesus said in Matthew 23:8-9
where He advised against being called father and/or let anyone be called rabbi (i.e. teacher or master)

Matthew 23:8-9
⁸"Don't let anyone call you 'Rabbi,' for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters.
⁹And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven

The reason why Jesus said this, was because of the prevailing culture in Judaism then
particularly where the Pharisees pompously felt important than necessary, when addressed as rabbi (i.e. teacher or master) or called father
whomsoever not complying with this or who doesnt address them as rabbi (i.e. teacher or master) or call them father
will experience the Pharisees' extreme anger or displeasure and have their names inked down in the Pharisees' little black books

Jesus was aware of the Pharisees' egotism, their intellectual or spiritual overestimations, their self-importance, their displays of exaggerated dignity, and pretence to know everything, that He touched on the issue and addressed it with Matthew 23:8-9

Some will find it startling that there is no mention of the word ''pastor'' in the bible (i.e. New Testament).
The word ''pastor'' doesn’t occur, at all in the bible (i.e. New Testament),
in fact, ''pastor'' with a ''s'' does, but, interestingly, this "pastor" with a ''s'' (i.e. pastors) occurs only one time!
Knowing the roles of elders in ekklesia (i.e. ''church'') helps understand WHY this "word ''pastor'' doesn’t occur, at all in the bible" matter.

None of the three (i.e. none of Sir, Pastor Or Daddy) is scriptural

phoneport:
Well may be am wrong.

Quite the opposite, you are, actually very right.
You're correct about noticing this egotism which is unscriptural.

OREMUSSANCTUS:
Father is more scriptural

Would you mind sharing quotations from the Bible why "Father is more scriptural"

An2elect2:
Sir

Since it was a question of which is scriptural
Would you mind sharing quotations from the Bible why you chose Sir from "Sir, Pastor Or Daddy" as scriptural

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why You Should Honor God’s Ministers by MuttleyLaff: 6:09am On Jul 15, 2015*

esere826:
I agree with Vooks and yourself
However, I ask where in the world do folks get some strange leadership-followership ideas from (which might end up being abused)
I refuse (or fear) to believe that these leaders seat down to conjure up these practices hoping that their followers tow it
I suspect its a natural flow from their value system (both the leaders and followers)

Look at us arguing respectfully
it is clear that our value system supports this, and any Christian leader that engages with us would have to come to the table with lots of brain power ... (though we also have some inert but suppressed vile values birthed by our cultures and traditions)

However, it makes sense that an insultive Christian would only sync with a leader who is able to use brash coercive psychological force to keep him in check

You can thus see a certain semblance of character between the follower and the followee.
This I suspect is because they share similar underlying cultures (I am not talking about tradition oo)

perhaps there is another angle to this
maybe the leader has special gift that enables him stir and configure his followers values/culture/beliefs to be same as his.

Whatever, the case, I seriously doubt that a man go siddon start to dey plan how him wan make a fool of him congregation
That South Aftrican pastor that get his followers to eat grass should be a good case study for my line of argument

....all said, I largely agree with you guys. All of this is just me trying to turn the cube a little bit to see what else we can see

*Additional comment..To buttress my thoughts around culture, you noticed how the OP laid out his argument for standing up for pastors. He came in from the point of view that we typically stand up for presidents, and then transferred that same honor to the pastors. That argument might not fly well with a British person who typically won't be bothered to stand for his prime minister. However, if the OP and his folks do a good job of transferring the adulation given to the queen unto the pastor, then indeed not only will they stand, they will also bow before the pastor.

I hear you too, heard you loud and clear

If we're trying to turn the cube a little bit to see what else we can see, let's even try push the boat out, a bit further, bit in the deep end

Now not trying stir up a hornet's nest here but when I hear people say so-and-so has humility or such-and-such is so humble,
am like well, hmm but "Humility isn't actually humility unless there's something you're good enough at to be humble about."
That was a God quote from the "Joan of Arcadia" series, it used to be shown a few years back on the CBS Network
When I heard that line in the series, the penny about Numbers 12:3 dropped for me

Numbers 12:3
(Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.)

Hmm, imagine leading a nation out of Egypt,
lead half a million Israelites or say more than 2 million people, if women and children are included, to the promised land
now if that isnt something to be humble about, I dont know what else is.
That, right there, is humility. That is a feat.
No wonder the Bible recorded he was very humble, more than any of the men who are on the face of the ground

If the word humility, as we know it to be, is also associated with meekness, lowliness or submissiveness,
then it will wear thin and fail miserably, in the face for anyone subscribing to or endorsing one, any or all of the following:
1. KNEELING before them while addressing them with your head bowed
2. Calling them my lord
3. Ministers DEMANDING on 'honor' such as being addressed as daddy, mum....and publicly rebuking those who don't
4. Literally kissing their feet/shoes
5. Removing shoes in their presence
6. Washing their feet
7. Defining honor as agreeing with their EVERY word, doctrine

I dont recall ever, reading Moses, a man exceedingly humble above all men that dwelt upon earth,
allowing any of the Israelites according him, at any time, one, any or all of vooks' listings

Christianity Etc › Re: Why You Should Honor God’s Ministers by MuttleyLaff: 11:56am On Jul 14, 2015*

esere826, not necessarily knocking your comments but I think vooks is right about "abuse" when he said:
"...cultural disposition is abused,
I meant it is abused by those who readily ascribe the practices I described to culture.
You opined that some of these practices are borrowed from culture"

and countered yours by asking:
"where else they are found outside Christianity.
If they are found nowhere else outside Christianity, then it is wrong to 'blame' culture for these.
They would be nothing but internal practices"

We need to remember when Jesus said in Matthew 23:8-9 said not to be called teacher nor let anyone call you Rabbi

Matthew 23:8-9
⁸"Don't let anyone call you 'Rabbi,' for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters.
⁹And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven

The reason why Jesus said this, was because of the prevailing culture in Judaism then
where the Pharisees pompously felt important than necessary when addressed as rabbi or called father
whoever not complying or does otherwise will experience their extreme anger or displeasure
and be inked down in their little black books

Jesus was aware of the Pharisees' self-importance, their displays of exaggerated dignity
and pretence to know everything, that He touched on it and addressed the issue with Matthew 23:8-9

So "#3. Ministers DEMANDING on 'honor' such as being addressed as daddy, mum....and publicly rebuking those who don't" predated Christianity
The Jews had this culture, they practised this "daddy" idea, custom or social behaviour,
so it could be said Christians learned this "daddy" thing from Judaism,
and equally said they traditionally borrowed the "baba" practice from indigenous tradition, culture or custom as well too

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Didn't God Forgive Adam And Eve by MuttleyLaff: 4:04am On Jul 14, 2015*

Image123:
Did Adam and Eve repent?

Not recorded they did
but I think they did afterwards which is why Adam taught his sons about "sin offering and/or burnt offering"

tunaguy:
God didn't forgive

Dont think you really know, understand and fully appreciate all that went down in Gen 3:21

To start with, a sin was comitted in Eden
then God performed the first "sin offering" when He sacrificed an animal to cover up Adam and Eve's sin
This is the first recorded "cover up" in the Bible. This "cover up" is otherwise known as atonement too

The LORD God made clothes from animal skins for the man and his wife and dressed them
- Gen 3:21

Now according to Leviticus 7:7-8, those animal skins, where by rights, God's (i.e. He has the first choice for them)
but He relinquished this right, to make clothing for Adam and his wife from the animal skins.

The act of love and God being concerned more with the needs and wishes of others than with His own is undeniable in Gen 3:21

Adam learned about the sin offering from God and rightly so passed it on to his sons
but it is only Abel who took to it or took after it.

Genesis 4:4-7
⁴Abel also brought a gift—the best of the firstborn lambs from his flock.
The Lord accepted Abel and his gift,
⁵but he did not accept Cain and his gift.
This made Cain very angry, and he looked dejected.
⁶“Why are you so angry?” the Lord asked Cain.
“Why do you look so dejected?
⁷You will be accepted if you do what is right.
But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out!
Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you.
But you must subdue it and be its master.”

That "sin offering" carried out by God in Eden for Adam and his wife was forgiveness
As previously mentioned, shedding of blood & forgiveness took place first before the clothing of Adam and his wife
Repeating the connection between shedding of blood & forgiveness is succinctly explained away in Hebrews 9:22 and Leviticus 17:11

tunaguy:
if he still laid punishment

It is nothing like "... He still laid punishment"

You seem to be misunderstanding the principle of causation
You're confusing consequence with punishment

If it was said "Dont touch the stove, as touching will get one burned",
if one went to touch the stove, what is that unpleasant or painful experience called?
Is it consequence or punishment?

If someone jumps out a plane without using a parachute,
what will the ensued unpleasant or painful experience be called?
Would it be consequence or punishment?

Have you ever heard judges say "my hands are tied by the sentencing rules" or "My hands are tied on your sentence"

God's Hands too, were tied in this matter,
He could not interfere with the cause and effect process, afterall the wages of sin is death,
but notwithstanding death, the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord,
so it's no use crying over spilled milk or dwell pointlessly on this death past misfortune thing

Christianity Etc › Re: Will You Enjoy Heaven or even want to go there If ? by MuttleyLaff: 2:00pm On Jul 13, 2015*

frosbel:
^^

You failed to answer my question....

I purposely quoted your question (i.e. Will You Enjoy Heaven or even want to go there?)
before answering with "If into honeymoons, why not..."

If you're now saying "You failed to answer my question" I wonder what preconceived answers it was you were expecting

I even tried to address your misinterpretation of the whole thing when I posted:
"There is no torture chamber, the Lake of Fire is not a sadistic eternal burning place
but is where to carry out the permanent destruction of death and Sheol/Hades/Hell
and the process or event is tagged/signified as the second death (i.e. second state of oblivion)"

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