₦airaland Forum

ritchboy:
^^ Liverpool will kick United out of the top four

Is this what Arsenal fans do these days to stay relevant?

Ibime:
Slobodan Rajkovic has signed for Hamburg. 4 year contract

Perreira would be coming as a midfielder. . . . but Porto want more money.

I was hearing that yesterday. I didn't know it was close. Work permit issues. There's no point holding on to him.

On the other hand, I wonder what Hamburg feel about Arnesen whose transfer targets have been mainly Chelsea players.
What sort of scout is that?

@Starboard.

1. I am sorry if you think I should give Coogar stick for saying the right thing and I don't. So bloody what if he says bollocks all the time? Does that mean he can't be right. He was right on this, EOS. All this megede fegede you are gisting is lost in in the wind.

2. Major crap. Lemme give you a recap on your position. . . This what what you said.

The same coogar who on this thread mentioned that your team was inferior to ours despite AVB and all?
Now all of a sudden,because Mata is on board,it's all over.

And I replied by saying . . .

He didn't say it's all over because of Mata, he said if Chelsea secure Modric and now that the have Mata, they will give United a much intense run than last season.


What is there to be understood? Does my reply in anyway suggest that you were referring to our squad? Are you sure you aren't the one jumping to conclusions? Coogar has views about Chelsea. He feels our squad is inferior to Utd's. . . Now he feels if Chelsea have Mata and Modric the title race will be tighter. It doesn't mean he concedes that Chelsea's squad is now superior. If he did, he would say Chelsea are favourites to win it outright. However, he said, the title race will be tighter. I understood that and I pointed that out in my quoted reply above. How have I not understood the whole thing? You are the one who doesn't even understand what you are arguing about.



3. Your first post. "Maybe under the experimental AVB,he (Mata) could gel,but with the mechanical robots in majority,I may not be too worried about that happening".

Your next . . .

"As for the majority I was talking about: Obi,Essien,Ramires,Ivanovic,Drogba,even Lampard. Maybe not in the majority",

Don't come back and tell me "maybe I stretched it too far" . . You did mate and it was a major error. You then went on to say "as for the majority I was talking about" . 5 players of a whole squad cannot justify your "as for the majority I was talking about". They are either majority or not. You cannot expect me to let you get away with that dude without clear and concise correction. If you want to correct yourself, I can help you with more succinct expression e.g. "I am sorry, that is not majority" . . Don't come back with "Maybe not majority" and try to make that look like a correction of a major error and naturally I had to take you on that. I wasn't quick to blast you.

Secondly, Mikel is dull, slow, lethargic . . call him whatever. . . definitely not mechanical. Now don't come back and tell me you corrected yourself. You've had your chance and by insisting, I have to find the right expressions for you.

Thirdly, still on the topic of being mechanical, (if you remember that's what point 3 is all about), Josh does not need a season to know if he is remotely mechanical or not. Also he had 4 starts and 13 sub appearances in all competitions for Chelsea. Do you even understand I included in in an argument of mechanical or not? So much for your thorough understanding. . .


4. I am sorry mate, another goof. It was not an example. I will recap for you.

This is Coogar's statement. . .

"mata is a very talented player and he will give chelsea a new dimension. i recognise quality when i sniff one and mata is superb. if chelsea sign mata and modric, then there's no limit to how far chelsea would go this season to chase united back to the pits of hell"


Your reply.


"Still to be seen
They've signed flair players before and those players ended up leaving/careers wrecked.
They had an Asier del Horno,the best Spanish LB at the time.One season later he was a wreck.
Maybe under the experimental AVB,he (Mata) could gel,but with the mechanical robots in majority,I may not be too worried about that happening.
They've had Tiago as well"

What does that mean? You are making a direct comparison with flair players. You are invariably saying, that because they've signed Tiago and Del Horno before and their career wrecked, it is precedence enough to suggest that Mata and Modric may not make it. . . and that to me is bollocks. And whether you try to colour it as "citing examples" mean little.

Firstly, Del Horno cannot be said to be any flashier than Ashley Cole and I do not remember Tiago being a flair player. So by suggesting Mata/Modric "may not" succeed for no other reason but for the fact that Tiago/Horno didn't is a direct comparison of abilities. Yes I know you cited "Mechanical in majority" as the chief reason, that in itself I have expunged.

Flair players we've signed in the past. Deco, Robben, Crespo, Zola, Gudjohsen, reasonably Joe Cole to name a few. Remind of what you were saying. This alone renders your assertion to be complete and utter nonsense. Citing examples or otherwise, you have made a major error in comparison and you have to face the music. I will rain abuses on you more for all I care. In your own words. . "If in doubt, ask questions" Don't attempt to force crap down my throat.


5. Yes I cannot claim to have paid attention to United like you have. So when I am corrected, I bow out. So bow out now! Except you have a few other things to say.




Meanwhile I no fight you oooo. I always respect your opinions. You always make a lot of sense in your posts. However, you goofed on this Chelsea gist and I am not backing down.

Two things are crucial to note here and it could be either.

1. AVB does not think they are good enough yet/at all.
2. Alvaro is not coming to fill a LB position.

Bros I no dey do £1000 ooo. 
Wetin I go tell madam? 

I no dey bet on top team wey AVB go select when he can change his mind between now and then.

StarBoard:
@nateevs,
You're suddenly listening to coogar because he's putting up a case for chelsea?
Someone who once told you your midfield wasn't better than Arsenal's?
The same coogar who on this thread mentioned that your team was inferior to ours despite AVB and all?
Now all of a sudden,because Mata is on board,it's all over.
This is bordering on laughable.
As for the majority I was talking about:
Obi,Essien,Ramires,Ivanovic,Drogba,even Lampard. Maybe not in the majority,but enough to influence Chelsea's style of play over the years.My opinion.
No point comparing Del Horno/Thiago to Modric/Mata.The latter combo is obviously better,but my point remains we've yet to see distinctively flair players like them thrive at Chelsea.
As for being worried,I believe the last time I checked,I was entitled to my opinion,so don't try changing it for me.
You can be worried all you like about us,that's your opinion too.

This is horrible to say the least.
1. The fact that Coogar says bollocks about Chelsea sometimes doesn't mean he cannot ever be right. You suggesting that I discredit his candid opinion based on errors of the past is immature.

2. He didn't say it's all over because of Mata, he said if Chelsea secure Modric and now that the have Mata, they will give United a much intense run than last season. Where from the "does it mean it is all over" ?

3. Obi may be slow, he is certainly not mechanical. As a Nigerian, I will think you understand that more. The other five you mentioned don't make a majority and that is a major flaw in your assertions. Also, Essien is out for 6 months. Josh McEachran taking his place, you certainly cannot call him mechanical. So how have you arrived at most Chelsea players being mechanical? So I am right for suggesting you have not kept up with Chelsea and you are spilling bollocks.

4. Ok. So you agree that comparing Del Horno/Tiago to Modric/Mata is stupendous BS. Why try to force nonsense down my throat when you knew this from the start? Stop this right now.   The fact that you are yet to see flair players thrive at Chelsea can be for a number of reasons. Most notably of them are Manager, style, tactics, sheer number of flair players. If you look well, you will see that all these factors have changed and yet again more bollocks from you!

5. Yes sir, you can have an opinion. However, the moment you make it public, it's in the domain of potential evaluation and criticism. And I obliged to providing those services this time around. Feel free to criticize mine.

So my friend, I was right that you haven't been keeping up. Coogar is right that there is reason to be worried about Chelsea. If the changes at Chelsea are not enough to worry you, by all means. Just stick to the facts and say less about what you know little about.  



5.

chamotex:
Hundred quid . . . you can go for more if e sure for you.
And don't take long to pay my money like you did with A-40

Bros I no dey £100. I don't need money to eat.
If you no dey do £1000, don't even start.

chamotex:
More bollocks! . . . AVB said this . . . AVB said that. Get off AVB's co[i]c[/i]k and let him pick the side.
I still wont give up on you . . . . yet.

Do you want to place a bet now that the team you posted up there wont be the same after the Norwich game as you stated?
Since you are so sure of yourself.

Broke sucker. . . How much you wan bet?

Ibime:
I didnt know EPL had limit on foreigners.

Alvaro Perreira is a World Class Left-back, but he is not a World Class midfielder.

In the event that we pull out of the Modric deal, Mata I believe will play in midfield.
It may partly explain why we are after Perreira. AVB may be thinking about using him on the flanks.
Maybe he knows something we all don't.

chamotex:
It's not even that . . . it's just the way he comes up with his fantasy teams like he could read AVB's mind.
You would think he is part of the Chelsea back room staff.

Check him out here categorically telling us how the midfield will line up after the Norwich game.
Is he AVB?

It's clear you are only an idiot right now.
Tell me if you think otherwise. The only reason Danny Sturridge is not starting is becos he's banned for 3 games.
He returns after the Norwich. AVB has stated he will use inverted forwards and Sturridge was the best forward player of pre-season.

Mata will obviously start. Torres already starts in front of Drogba.
Lamps is sure to start, Mikel will sit and if we spend £30m on Modric, he will start.


So tell me, do I need to be in AVB's head to figure this out?
Or are you just looking for another Nateevs' post to ridicule?

chamotex:
Let's not get carried away . . . that is why all these teams are called rivals or supposedly the 'top 4'.
All these top teams are all threats to each other.

It's only 2 games gone.
Chelsea/ManUnited/ManCity will be there or thereabout by the end of the season.
Even Arsenal, just that we all know how their season usually end

Everything in that post was going on very fine until you decide to throw Arsenal into the mix. .
I mean like really? Arsenal?

In several posts, I have always said "if Modric signs" . . .
I even said, "after the Norwich game, Chelsea will line up this way".

Cut me some slack dude, can't a niggah rejoice at potentially interesting times?

coogar:
of course, i do.
mata is a very talented player and he will give chelsea a new dimension. i recognise quality when i sniff one and mata is superb.
if chelsea sign mata and modric, then there's no limit to how far chelsea would go this season to chase united back to the pits of hell.

the only snag is their defence. i think terry has aged and his pace is beginning to suffer.
a back five of cech--bosingwa--ivanovic--luiz--cashley would be water-tight. i don't trust terry and alex as far as pace is concerned.
chelsea are well-equipped in the midfield. . . .the matter is not even up for discussion.

the attack has drogba, torres, kalou, malouda, sturridge, anelka and romelu lukaku.
in all honesty, chelsea's squad is far scarier than city's.
if villash boash gets this team to gel quickly, the title race this season will be fierce. . . .

I totally agree with your points. To say on is not worried about Chelsea is BS to be honest.
I am freaking worried about Utd. Hernandez (except last night) and Berba have not played, yet they are walking past Spurs who had their full squad. I am worried about Welbeck's form and I am very worried about City.

SSN reporting we've bid for Alvaro Perreira. If I am right, we have just one more foreign slot in the team.
Unless Modric is coming in a swap deal, if this bid is true, it might be the end of the Modric chase.
Unless of course, we are about to offload someone.

chamotex:
One would think Lateef is AVB in disguise - picking teams in advance
Abi u think say na Football Manager

Na you sabi. . .
I am picking players from a squad we have.
You see me add Rooney to the squad?
Why your belle dey sweet you. Abi you dey fear small small?

ritchboy:
Redknapp talks too much shyte for his own good. If Spurs had an offer accepted for Mata, we'd have heard about it like we heard about the Chelsea offer.

Mata would have gleefully joined Arsenal if his valuation was met. Tottenham aren't in the UCL but if they offered him big money(which he doesn't seem to care about ) he'd have been over the moon.

He's just sucking up to chavs by namedropping.

Well, Mata says he prefers Chelsea.

StarBoard:
Still to be seen
They've signed flair players before and those players ended up leaving/careers wrecked.
They had an Asier del Horno,the best Spanish LB at the time.One season later he was a wreck.
Maybe under the experimental AVB,he (Mata) could gel,but with the mechanical robots in majority,I may not be too worried about that happening.
They've had Tiago as well.

You are not trying to compare flair wrt Modric and Mata to Del Horno and Tiago are you?
Do you even know Tiago that well? Are you making an assumption that Del Horno has flair solely because he is Spanish?
If I give you an 11 of

               Cech
Bosingwa, Luiz, Terry, Cole
          Mikel/Romeu
       Modric, Lampard
  Sturridge,Torres, Mata,

can you please pick out the "mechanical in majority" you are referring to?


I am not quite sure you have kept up with Chelsea. Coogar understands exactly what he is talking about. Your prompt dismissal of Chelsea is naive to say the least.

ritchboy:
New signings chatting their usual rubbish. Neither Tottenham nor Arsenal agreed a fee with Valencia. #shhhhh

How you take know? Inside source?


This is Redknapp on Mata. . .

"We were in for Mata and close to doing a deal. But he didn’t come and Chelsea came in".

Ibime:
I dont think Mikel is a title-winning DM. The amount of times Shane Long ran him on Saturday was glaring. The dude is just too slow to fill in the gaps.

I also need ANYBODY to take the place of Ramires.

That dude is an utter liability. When you see the midfield building up attacks, you see Ramires hiding, not showing for the pass. His first pass is always backward. He kills ALL THE MOMENTUM in our attacks, and his passing is often inaccurate. He lacks the personality to take charge of the ball and look for teammates. You could see when Alex gave him the ball, he chose the easy option to give Alex the ball back (which Alex wasnt expecting) and which led to the first goal. He does that EVERY TIME. On one particular occassion, Ashley, Lamps and Malouda built an attack down the left-side. The next option was to pass infield to Ramires. Ramires just stood there like olodo, like someone who does not want to receive the ball on the edge of the box. When he received the ball, his touch took the ball backward, and he gave it to Mikel, instantly killing any momentum that we had built up in that attack. Im sorry, Ramires WILL NEVER BE a Chelsea midfielder. He used to play right-back in his younger years. I suggest he start retraining to be a right-back cos his midfield play is simply not of Chelsea standard.

He is not the very first player that will come to my mind when thinking about a midfielder.
His first touch is horrible. The only thing he has going for him is his bundle of energy.
Romeu can replace Mikel in midfield and Modric - if we sign him - will replace Ramires.
And if Modric doesn't, I really hope AVB plays Benayoun.
I have been thinking Benayoun hasn't been selected because he may be involved in the Modric deal and we don't want to get him injured.
I also think Josh should be next in the pecking order in midfield.

"I want to come to England to win trophies - and that's why I accepted Chelsea's offer,'' he said. "It was also a question of sporting achievement, not money. Arsenal and Tottenham were both interested in me but they did not compare with the Blues. I want the Premier League title and this is possible at Chelsea."

"Fernando Torres helped influence my decision but speaking directly with Villas-Boas was the decisive factor", he added. "He explained how his style will be based on 4-3-3 and how important I will be to his plans".

"Frank Lampard is a monster of a footballer to play alongside and the prospect of that is incredible."

Juan Mata 2012.

chamotex:
"He's still only 20 years of age and he's got a great future, the lad. He's a big rangy, long-legged boy who can gallop really quickly. Once he gets his legs going, he's quick. He's a good footballer, he's got a great attitude when he loses the ball, a tremendous attitude to win it back."

I think this is one of the reasons why Welbeck is in the team at the moment.

You think? You didn't think this was what Fergie had seen way before the Comm shield game. I remember telling you just after that game that just maybe Fergie has seen something that you haven't seen. I am of the opinion that you are seeing the realities of Fergie's thoughts 3 games late. However you insisted Berba was rested.

But hey! Who am I to argue? Coogar says it's illogical to argue that your golden boot striker is bench-warming if not that he is being rested. My question is how about 3 games later? Is it still illogical?

Ibime:
Kai! The way my boy Ashley Young display today just reminded me of missed opportunities.

BTW, I was very excited by Chelsea link to Stevan Jovetic. That dude is a beast! Although he missed last season with cruciate damage, I reckon a fit Jovetic would easily be one of the top 10 players in the Prem. That nukka is absolutely World Class.

The Jovetic gist has been running rounds for about a week now. I have tried not to pay so much attention to it but hey, I am so wishing deep down it is true. After his injury last year, we should be able to get him on a cheap.

However I do not think it is true.


After the Norwich game, the team will start this way in midfield and attack.

        Mikel
Modric          Lamps

Danny Torres Mata

That's a very strong and potentially very creative line up. I really believe we can achieve a lot with this starting 11. We may not have explosive, pacy, wing/byline thugs, we will make up for that in immense creativity with all those players able to pop up at many spots on the pitch and still manage to create something.




In the FA Cup/Carling Cup, "I think" - judging from the way AVB likes to set up and the things he's said - that the team will line up this way in midfield and attack.



                 Romeu
        Ramires    Josh

Kakuta   Lukaku   Piazon/young player



Very inexperienced team but very experimental. Although Piazon cannot join the team until January. Hopefully we are still in the competition by then.

Interesting times.

nateevs:
Hmmm. Berbatov rested again!

chamotex:
Welbeck scored one and assisted another . . . he deserves his place in the team at the moment

coogar:
welbeck was rubbish until his goal.

Hmmm.

Hmmm. Berbatov rested again!

Thomas Kalas on loan to Vitesse.
Milan Lalkovic on loan to Doncaster - one month loan deal to the bottom team in the championship.

ritchboy:
Parker has been very consistent for 2-3 seasons now, he was arguably the best player in the league last year(top 3 at least) and even starts games for the national team nowadays. He'll EASILY command 80k at  a top club.

Na these ones be "top quality"? I dey

At Arsenal there's also the likes of Vermaelen, Wilshere, Sagna, Song, Gervinho etc in that wage bracket that are every bit as good as, if not better than the players you have listed, you haven't illustrated anything!

Also, it's one thing to pay top wages for the players that "carry the team on their shoulders", it's another thing to cough up 30M+ for the transfer. Almunia will not suddenly morph into Buffon if you start paying him 200K p/w!

That's a very unfair thing to do. I like when you have a discussion rather than your unending need to slander.

I posted the opinion about "top quality" in a completely separate post. Dudu asks me to tell a team that pays such wages and still manages to finish in the top four every year and I listed players. I did not liken these players to any sort of quality at any time. There is no need for you to argue that way.

You can also quote my second post and say Fabio, Oshea, Carrick, Brown, Fabio, Anderson, Park, Valencia, and then say "na this be quality?" . . . . They won the PL.

Cross over to United and you will find the same. Are you trying to make me believe that Oshea and Brown, (while at OT) Rafael, Fabio, Evans, Smalling, Anderson, Nani, Valencia, Hernandez, are all outside the 60 to 90k bracket? No! Yet these guys win the PL.

That's an evidence that you are doing something wrong?

duduspace:
You don't have much to do, just point out 1 such club in the PL paying such wages and competing in the top 4 yearly like Arsenal do. worthy and reasonable challenge and not so difficult? 

I will give you 7 players in Chelsea.

Ivanovic
Bosingwa
Alex
Luiz
Mikel
Ramires
Sturridge
Kalou
Mata
Lukaku
And you know that Chelsea will finish in top four year on year. Oh did I give you more than 7?



I am not saying there won't be the high earners in the team. What I mean is for every Alex you have in your team who don't and cannot play every week, there will be a Lampard, Drogba, who put in a shift and literally carry the team on their shoulders. However, they cannot do it a lone. They need the others around.

Arsenal will not relegate to the championship if you have one Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Ashley and the rest being on moderate wages.


My point is, it is possible to get players who will give you better results than Diaby, Denilson, Squilacci and co and still have them inside the 60-90k bracket.

Ibime:
70/80k for Mikel/Ramires is not peanuts, neither is 90k for Alex. There needs to be better price discrimination between quality of players. There is a reason why Chelseas wage bill is the highest and that's due to paying over the odds for mere squad players like Bosingwa who earns 80k and has done nothing to justify even half of that. To put this in context, Ryan Shawcross is Stokes highest paid player on 28k per week.

In addition, the reason Arsenal find it hard to shift their squad players is due to their high wages. Wenger pays a premium for potential. This is the reason why no serious offers have been made for Denilson and Bendtner in a situation where the likes of Denilson, Diaby and Bendtner earn 60k to 70k per week.

I am sorry if that came across as though I was referring to the players listed/ I was referring to the new players Lukaku, De Bryune and Romeu.

That said, it is not effective argument to try to create some sort of comparison between Shawcross at Stoke and Alex at 90k. My illustration was to highlight how Arsenal can pay wages in the 60 to 80k bracket and still get top quality.
You cannot argue that you will prefer Shawcross in place of Alex despite the gulf in wage earning.

Apart from the waste era we enjoyed under Roman, there is also the intrinsic value that players like Alex, Ivanovic, Terry offer you that you won't get in Shawcross. That's "partly" why they earn what they do.

And that's why these players play for their National teams and Shawcross doesn't despite Shawcross being Stoke's near best performer. Scott Parker puts a decent shift in every single minute for WestHam but he doesn't and cannot produce quality to command an 80k wage at a big club.

Why is my post gone?

debosky:
Let me bring some left field spin into this - I have always worried about the role played by the board in our current situation. It's easy to blame Wenger, but that's what he is paid for - to take ALL the blame for anything wrong at Arsenal. Again, this is no exculpation of Arsene, as he has numerous flaws and has made mistakes.

http://www.thefootballnetwork.net/main/s378/st170548.htm

Not saying it's the gospel truth or anything, but I do believe there's no smoke without fire.

While I do not dispute that Wenger might be at loggerheads with the board over money issues, to skew figures in favour of justifying Wenger's failure is just pathetic. Chelsea does not pay a single soul £180k - £250k. Also it is nonsense to suggest that Mata didn't move to Arsenal because of wages. Chelsea have signed him on a 3m-4m euros wage. That's just within the 58k to 78k per week. Are you telling me Arsenal cannot afford to pay Mata this? Mata joined Chelsea because of AVB. AVB reportedly called Mata and spoke to him about what role he sees Mata playing at Chelsea. Call it the Spanish/Portuguese thing, definitely not money.

Sturridge is on 60k a week.
Ivanovic on 85k a week.
Luiz is reportedly on 80k a week.
Bosingwa on about 80k after he signed a contract extension.
Alex is on about 90k a week.
Ramires on 80k a week.
Mikel on about 70k a week.

And now we will secure the services of Lukaku, Romeu and possibly De Bryune. All these players earn peanuts and while I am not making any predictions now, these players I am sure will have massive contributions to Chelsea's season.

Is that article really trying to suggest what really is not? It's mythical to suggest that Chelsea pay over the odds for all the players they have.
The players who earn the most are winding down their careers and in 2 years will be off the books.


The problem is with buying the wrong players time and again. Is Wenger saying Ivanovic and Luiz at CB will not win the PL? Alex?
All these players are within the wage structure of Arsenal. I can mention a ton of other players that can do a job for Arsenal.
This wage thing is over played.

duduspace:
Glad you mentioned them, the factors that brought those clubs down is exactly what Arsenal is avoiding right now. spending beyond your means. They didn't fail because players all of a sudden refused to go there, they failed because they lived beyond their means while they were succesful, when they fell on hard times success wise, they couldn't make up the shortfall in income. Mind you, none of those clubs even had massive capital expenditure like building a new stadium.

City has no success worth talking about but you can see the class of players that money has taken there.

Except you can point me to some knowledge base I haven't ever come across, I fail to accept that Nottingham Forest and Newcastle's demise from top flight was remotely caused by spending way over their means.