₦airaland Forum

dexter1983: please is tvc online for dos of us outside naija...pls post...

Watch it here

What an introduction by Patrick !!

@OP, In fairness, fela called Botha, Animal in Human skin in one of his songs

CyberG: I advise that you stop all the lies because your car of lies has spun into the ditch! You have nothing on Chief Awolowo, even a tuber of yam knows better or are you a chronic learner? I don't have time to educate your ignorance tonight and if Kats and Prof and the other posters teach you and you are still failing, then even I split your brain with an axe and dump everything inside, you will still be more clueless than GEJ!

You have my pity.

I understand how difficult it is for you to hear that your god-like figure actually interfered in Akintola's governance, fought him, organized for his ouster, and supprted violence against his fellow Yorubas. I know it goes against what you have been told by people who have demonized Akintola for decades now.

Asking for evidence that Awo interfered in Akintola's governance is like asking for proof that GEJ and Patience interfered in the affairs of Rivers state. Just as it is impossible for you to convince some GEJ supporters that there was interfferance in Rivers state, nobody can convince you die hard Awo supporters either. You can continue to bury your heads in the sand.

While Akintola was still the Premier of the Wester Region and enjoying the support of AG members and ruling peacefully, Awo decided to organize his supporters in AG against Akintola, simply because Awo did not like Akintola's overtures to Northerners and his good relationship with Sardauna. Within a few months of Awo's actions, AG had split into two factions, one loyal to Awolowo and the other to Akintola. The rest is history.

What Akintola was up against was not party ideology as revisionists such as Kats would have us believe, but Awolowo's constant interferance in the affairs of government. Rather than face his task in the House of Reps, Awolowo was behaving as though he was still the Premier of the West, dictating who should be appointed to what cabinet position, what policy should be on the government's agenda and how decisions should be taken.

Only an intellectually dishonest person will not classify these actions by Awo as interferance, . I don't have time to give anyone a full bibliography here, but I will suggest that anyone who is interested in the truth should read at a minimum, pages 88 - 91 of [url=http://books.google.com/books?id=1pi_AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&dq=awolowo+interfered+with+akintola&source=bl&ots=S83erOrj1K&sig=SLuUSIwMjlt06foUAmIBU4AMc2Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IQKCUsy7K9G54APAzIHYDg&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=awolowo%20interfered%20with%20akintola&f=false] this book [/url]

The interferance I've talked about are well documented and I fail to undestand why, otherwise honest posters will go to great lengths to revise history. But not to worry, I'm here to deal with them. They've bitten more than they can chew

For other readers who do not know, the only sin Akintola had committed in his political life is having to openly disagreed with his Party leader, Awolowo on whether or not it was time for the Yorubas to make peace and to join forces with the North. Ever since the disagreement, Awo's interferance and undue influence was escalated until Akintola was ousted.

No amount of revisionism can change this.

touch4mony: i was thinking u ppl are already in APC why are u fighting to come back to the party of bad governace,corruption,etc why not go and let pdp b go join apc then leta u will start fight their too

Are you a learner. The neatest way to stop GEJ is to deny him the PDP ticket in the first place.

Katsumoto: What is wrong with you?

With nothing to show for your vacuous thread, you are now resorting to tricks.

Don't try that BS with me.

Were you expecting each individual member to have challenged Akintola individually?

Do you understand how party politics in a democracy works? Probably not.

Are you familiar with the process that was followed when the Tories ousted Thatcher?

Please educate yourself and stop pontificating like a drunkard.

Name calling will not help you here. You have admitted that Awo interfered and that is good enough for me. Use dogon turenchi all you want, your admission is up here for all to see, unless you go and edit the "call out" thingy. Lets review what you stated, Awo "called out" Akintola and the result was that AG members ousted Akintola, yet you want us to believe that awolowo did not interfere or influence AG members, abi? No dice buddy.

Katsumoto:

You are very funny. You are referring to a summary when I have given you a better version here. Awo as party leader, was in the right to call Akintola out for not following party policies. And the party members, performed their duties, by voting. Votes were counted and Akintola was relieved of his position. Bear in mind that there were two votes 1) party members relieved Akintola of his position as Deputy leader of the party and the House reps voted him out as Premier. There are no lies.

Alhaji, where is your evidence to support the notion that Awo interfered?

Folks, there you have it! According to Katsumoto, AG members did not realize that Akintola was not following party rules because they were daft. It took Awo in his wisdom to call Akintola out before AG members voted Akintola out!

What you just admitted as "calling out" is interferance. case closed.

Prof_Corruption, you are proving to be quite stubborn.

Prof Corruption: Besides, if you agreed that this
was not in contention, why are you saying Awolowo was responsible for his removal?

You people remain stubborn and continue to ignore the fact that there was a major feud between Akintola and Awolowo before Akintola's removal.

Have it your way, Insha Allah, we shall meet at the APC convention.

Prof Corruption: @ndu_chucks

AG voted Akintola as Premier, AG removed him as premier. That's pretty straight forward.

This point is not in contention.

It is however, also very clear and straight forward that Awo interfered in Akintola's governance and orchestrated his removal as Premier. I have proved that beyond any doubt.

Katsumoto: Yes because the ideology of the AG was selected by a majority. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? There were so many influential folks in the AG - Akerele, Bode Thomas, Adeyemo Alakija, Kofo Abayomi, Akintola Williams, H.O Davies, Ayo Rosiji. Do you think they would have just followed Awo's directions like zombies? Akintola deviated from the ideology of the party and he was fired for that. Do I need to keep explaining it to you? There were more than two people in that party.

Now provide the facts/evidence to support this notion that Awo interfered and subsequently got Akintola fired.

I will use your own post as evidence, since you've decided to be stubborn and are bent on convincing gullible readers that Awo had nothing to do with Akintola's ouster.

Excerp:

Katsumoto: for in January 1962, the hostility between Chief Obafemi Awolowo, the leader of opposition in the then federal parliament and leader of the Action Group party and his deputy as Premier of the Western Region, Chief Samuel Ladoke Akintola, who was also the deputy leader of the party, led to a breakdown of law and order in western region.

Note that this was before Akintola's ouster, yet you want us to believe that Awo had nothing to do with the ouster. By the way, some of the names in your post above including Ayo Rosiji supported Akintola.

Read the rest of your post here and weep.

This should put your lies and deceit to rest. Awo interfered with Akintola's governance and engineered his ouster. Period.

HNosegbe: Ndu_chucks, what is the purpose of this thread?

I will give you an answer once you show me the forum rule which states that an OP must provide his/her purpose for starting a thread. BTW: Why are you worried about the thread's purpose?

Katsumoto: So your point is that we should forget about an even that occurred and base the results of the entire period on hear-say and fallacy? For something to be a fact, everyone must agree or you must have evidence to support it.

How did Awo interfere?

How did Awo ensure Akintola was fired? If you can't present the evidence to support this, then you need to stop using the word 'fact'. For the avoidance of doubt, a 'fact' is not something that is shared as men are drinking alcohol.

People lined up behind Awo because they believed in his vision.

If you don't know the differences between a presidential system and parliamentary system, then there is no point in continuing this debate.

I will ignore your cheap shot for now.

Let me point out, since you are pretending not to know, that Chief Awolowo surprised many when he voluntarily gave up the post of Premier of the Western Region, and handing it over to the Deputy Leader of the AG, Sir Akintola.Awo then proceeded to Lagos as Leader of the Opposition. With his contemporaries active at the federal level, perhaps Awolowo did not want to be left in Ibadan. While Awo left for Lagos to satisfy his own personal interests, he wanted Akintoloa to continue the policies and political phylosophy which Awo subscribed to.

You yourself admited that Akintola decided to go a different route and you admitted that Akintola was ousted by his party for that reason, yet you want us to believe that all of these happened without awolowo's interferance or influence!!! This must be the joke of the century. Give up already buddy.

CyberG: I wonder how much of what really happened you believe or is it a recent book that you read that makes you to be twisting and turning - you, not Katz is doing the twisting and turning just to arrive at a pre-conceived conclusion. So, if a government (especially lying and dishonest governments like has been in Nigeria almost throughout its history) puts out a position, IT MUST BE BELIEVED because it is the INFALLIBLE TRUTH? Oh, or you accept that position when it suits your pre-conceived conclusion and you argue it when it goes against it? Well, I tell you what: if governments always told the truth (like you posit here), then the court of public opinion will always be the same as that of the government! That is something that has rarely happened in Nigeria and that is why till tomorrow, the majority of the people concerned with the leadership of Awolowo and Akintola ALWAYS and will always put Awolowo ahead of Akintola! No amount of stories can change that...especially when you somehow imply that some judiciary found Akintola was "right" given that the same judiciary - riduculously compromises by Balewa, Bello, Zik and their minions had to convict the same Chief Awolowo on trumped-up treason charge! Years later, the judge that handed down a guilty verdict to Fela apologized and publicly confessed that he was told to convict him by all means. Chief Awolowo since wrote an update to the so called conviction in his book, My March through the Prison, did you ever read it or why hasn't any of the people you mentioned rebutted his positions?

Oh, today you would still have us believe that since the government has not found any wrong doing in Oduah, then she is innocent and the people who allege corruption are wrong??

story story. Did Awolowo interfere with Akintola's governance or not. Yes or No? shi kena

Katsumoto: Alhaji

A premier is not the same thing as a Governor. Akintola as premier was elected by AG reps and the same AG reps voted him out. When you lose the support of a majority in your party, what happens? When Thatcher lost the support of her party, what happened to her? Was isn't it the same MPs who voted her in that voted her out? In a parliamentary system, you have to follow party politics. Quite different from a presidential system where you are voted into power by the people rather than fellow party reps.

Do I need to explain this point again? Do you want a lesson on the differences between a parliamentary and presidential system?

Why are you desperately trying to convince people that Akintola was voted out by AG reps when no one is disputing this issue? Your typical style of winning an arguement by creating a non existent issue and presenting points in support of same, falls flat on its face this time arround.

The reason why the same AG Reps who voted Akintola in as Premier turned against him is because of Awolowo's interferance and influence. Period! You cannot escape the fact. Having lost the political battle, Awo and his thugs resorted to wetie in a barbaric act of violence against fellow Yorubas. What kind of visionary leader would lead such an affair?

Awo interfered with Akintola's governance just like GEJ is interferingwith Amaechi's in Rivers state. The facts are there for all to see and no amount of intellectual obfuscation can hide these facts.

Katsumoto: Alhaji

A premier is not the same thing as a Governor. Akintola as premier was elected by AG reps and the same AG reps voted him out. When you lose the support of a majority in your party, what happens? When Thatcher lost the support of her party, what happened to her? Was isn't it the same MPs who voted her in that voted her out? In a parliamentary system, you have to follow party politics. Quite different from a presidential system where you are voted into power by the people rather than fellow party reps.

Do I need to explain this point again? Do you want a lesson on the differences between a parliamentary and presidential system?

Why are you desperately trying to convince people that Akintola was voted out by AG reps when no one is disputing this issue? Your typical style of winning an arguement by creating a non existent issue and presenting points in support of same, falls flat on its face this time arround.

The reason why the same AG Reps who voted Akintola in as Premier turned against him is because of Awolowo's interferance and influence. Period! You cannot escape the fact. Having lost the political battle, Awo and his thugs resorted to wetie in a barbaric act of violence against fellow Yorubas. What kind of visionary leader would lead such an affair?

Awo interfered with Akintola's governance just like GEJ is interfering with Amaechi's in Rivers state. The facts are there for all to see and no amount of intellectual obfuscation can hide these facts.

Katsumoto: 1. Bolded part - The title of your thread and your first post begs to differ Alhaji.

2. What are these educational programs that are Awoist in nature? Building almajiri schools is not Awoist. Awo would have supported proper schools for kids.

1. That was a cheap shot. My first post does not beg to differ nada. Your only escape is to blame it on the title, and even if you do that, you should read the posts very well before responding.

2. Before I respond to this, I urge you to first educate yourself on GEJ's program on this issue. I'm sure that simply because the program name has Almajiri in it, you decided to cast it aside as an unworthy program and did not read anything about it. Please return with your finding after reading about the program.

P.S. I will not embarass you if you apologise after you learn more about the program. I'm a good guy.

atlwireles: Maybe you should add GNPP(borno state)+PRP( Kano+kaduna states), then it might dawn on you how far Awo or Zik was from the presidency. Also in 1983 NPN had almost 49% of the vote. You don't need to insult me, the premise of your thread is just wrong.

ngwanu, nwanne m, lets agree to disagree, nothing more.

atlwireles: With those results how would anybody from UPN +NPP become president?

Oga, can you read at all? Add UPN and NPP numbers together, or use a calculator to do so, then reread my post, then come back and respond appropriately. Don't make me to call you names o. You have only one benefit of the doubt left.

Katsumoto: This is rather daft. So anyone, anywhere in the world, who builds schools is an awoist? Awo was big on usinga CAR to go from Ibadan to Ikenne and GEJ also uses a car to to Bayelsa from PH. GEJ must be like Obama since they are both big on wearing shoes.
GEJ's record on education is woeful and there is no basis in trying to find similarities. Almajiri school is not a proper school. Don't kid yourself. Let those kids in the North go to school instead of using them (boys) to cause mayhem on the streets and rap.ing the gals, some as young as 9.

Find an actual policy on education from GEJ and then we can compare.

I will not allow you to come up with imaginary issues and make points to support them cheaply. For the umpteenth time, I am not here to compare Awo to GEJ. Get that through your head! I maintain that many of GEJ's educational prigrams and successes can be classified as Awoist in nature. Awo himself would have sanctioned some of them.

Katsumoto: Stop debating in an obtuse manner like Dede1.

Point out how Awo interfered with Akintola or let it rest. Its very simple. AG respected the Judiciary, which was why they took the matter all the way to the Privy council. The Privy council ruled in their favour only for Balewa to change the constitution and then backdate it. I don't get why this is so difficult for you to understand.

OK, you win this one. Awo allowed Akintola to rule freely without interfereance. Lets just ignore the fact that Awo organized for his ouster because he, Akintola decided to abandon Awo's political philosophy as you stated.

If you cannot see that all of the court cases and presentaions to the Privy council wouldn't have occurred if Akintola had been left alone and allowed to rule in peace, then I cannot help you. You are just being an Awoist.

atlwireles: OP, in 1979, PRP and GNPP had what percentage of the vote?? add their votes together and Shagari will still be President. some of you here always like rewriting history, but the facts remain constant. UPN was a loser in 79 and 83 with Awo or without Awo. The alliance with zik .

PDP is the new NPN, there is nobody on the political terrain, that can stop the PDP machine come 2015,
Jonah's fresh air will continue till 2019

What are you on about?

See below for the 1979 election results. As Musiwa would say, go school.

Candidate Party Votes %

Shehu Shagari National Party of Nigeria 5,668,857 33.77%
Obafemi Awolowo Unity Party of Nigeria 4,916,651 29.18%
Nnamdi Azikiwe Nigerian People's Party 2,822,523 16.75%
Aminu Kano People's Redemption Party 1,732,113 10.28%
Waziri Ibrahim Greater Nigerian People's Party 1,686,489 10.02
Total 16,846,633

katsumoto: 2. It is unbelievably imbecilic and astoundingly lacking in ambition to compare the educational policies of Awolowo with GEJ's. In Awo's case, he instituted free education, built a university, and in the process trained many graduates and professors. Yet you want to compare that GEJ building 400 Almajiri schools. What is an Almajiri school? In the year 2013, Northern children are still being shortchanged by Northern leaders who would prefer to keep this children uneducated and subservient so as to use them in unleashing mayhem whenever the occassion calls for it. Shouldn't this children be getting a proper education? Will a proper education interfere with their religious education? Are Jewish kids not getting religious education? Nigerian universities are decaying at such a fast pace and the president is doing f0rk all about it.

You can keep trying to deceive people and attempting to put words into my mouth, but I will correct you promptly. I never attempted to compare GEJ's educational program with Awo's - this notion is a figment of your imagination only. Here's what I wrote: "Awo was big on Educating the masses, and in the spirit of Awoism, GEJ has ordered the building of over 400 Almajiri schools" This is quite different form comparing Awo's policies to GEJ's or anyone elses. I don't know why you people feel offended by the mention of Awo in this manner. I'm sorry to say that your second point is just as meaningless as the first one.

Katsumoto: I am glad that you wisely let the other two points. This other point too will be discarded by you shortly.

Don't get excited, I will debunk your remaining points in a minute. I knew you'll need one or two pages of twisting and turning to answer each point so I decided to adress them one by one.

Your epistle did not disprove the fact that Akintola was not allowed to rule Western Region as the Premier freely. Awo interfered and got him illegally ousted, period! You call it a democratic process, but the judiciary thought otherwise. In response, Awolowo and his boys turned to violence, hence wetie. These are facts which cannot be disproved.

One would think that a responsible leader would have respect the judiciary, but Awo and his boys chose to deal with a political and legal loss with violence. I suppose if you could, you would have been arguing that Wetie never happened. Now let me address your second false point.

PDP leadership is attempting to find a way to ignore the court ruling which reinstated Oyinlola, but it will fail in the end. GEJ needs to get his house in order.

Katsumoto: It is obvious you want to be michievious with this post like Akanbi stated previously but I will humour you nonetheless.

1. Awo did not interfere with Akintola's running of the Western region. Awo interferred with Akintola's implementation of the party's policies. The Action Group had a political ideology called 'Democratic Socialism' based on the socilaism that had taken over much of Europe at the end of the second world war and which was intended to ensure equitable redistribution of national wealth. At the core of this welfare doctrine was a need for majority consensus on policies. The party espoused the elevation of many rather than a few. Akintola, on becoming premier, stated to move away from this primarily to counter the rise of elites in the East. He preferred a feudalist system in which a few were great and decided the destiny of a many. He started to change policies and replaced board/committee members with his own loyal supporters. What was Awo to do, as leader of the party? Stand by and watch one man replace democratic socialism with feudalism? Akintola, without consultation with the party, decreed that secondary students would start paying school fees. There was an outcry in the press and Awo interferred.

'Wetie' incidents were a result of (1) Balewa, Bello, Zik interference in the Western region. Akintola had been dismissed as premier and deputy party leader but through his friendship with Bello, Zik, Balewa, the judgement which went against him was annuled as a result of Balewa retroactively removing the privy council as the final court of the state after Akintola's dismissal was upheld by the Privy Council. So, in other words, Akintola was foistered on the Western region and the people reacted violently. (2) Balewa implementing a State of Emergency in the West even though no state of emergencies were imposed in the North and East for events that were more violent than the chair throwing, started ironically by NCNC members in the Western House of Assembly.

I will ignore your first sentence for obvious reasons.

Your submission above is filled with contradictions, if the point you are attempting to make is that Awo did not interfere with Akintola's running of the Western Region's government. You admitted that Awo had a major problem with Akintola's AG's guiding principles of democratic socialism for what you call 'feudal system'. As the Premier of the Western Region, Akintola, like Amaechi, has the right to rule without the interferance of party leaders, GEJ in Amaechi's case, and Awo, in Akintola's. How else was Awolowo supposed to ensure that the principles he believed in, was implemented in the Western region without either amicably influencing Akintola, or aggresively trying to sabotage Akintola's programs and eventually organizing Akintola's ouster? Regardless of how you want to believe Akintola became the Premier, the fact remains that he was the Premier and Awolowo did not allow him to rule in peace.

You are blaming Wettie on Balewa, Zik, and Bello!! Oga, If Awolowo had not interfered with Akintola's rule, Akintola would not have been removed in the first place. The judicial system of the day nullified Akintola's ouster which was engineered by Awolowo. It is the lawlessness encouraged by Awo's supporters against Akintola which resulted into Wetie. You people should take responsibility for once.

[quote author=Great_Skess]That line in red was directed to JOA(JEREMIAH OBAFEMI AWOLOWO)
In any political setting/system the minimium age structure which guarantee an individual the right to vote is 18 Years.
Despite,all the knowledge of JAO HE condescend to bring the age to 16(as the requirement for any one would want his political party), I strongly believe he did this in order to catch the attention of the masses.
I have gat no time for sh*t talk, if you like read this post upside down,but do not try to reply my post with curse word!
*Peace*[/quote]Thanks for the clarification. I asked for it to avoid misinterpreting what you mean. It is not me you should be concerned about but several revisionists who believe that Awo is a god.

Katsumoto: It is obvious you want to be michievious with this post like Akanbi stated previously but I will humour you nonetheless.

1. Awo did not interfere with Akintola's running of the Western region. Awo interferred with Akintola's implementation of the party's policies. The Action Group had a political ideology called 'Democratic Socialism' based on the socilaism that had taken over much of Europe at the end of the second world war and which was intended to ensure equitable redistribution of national wealth. At the core of this welfare doctrine was a need for majority consensus on policies. The party espoused the elevation of many rather than a few. Akintola, on becoming premier, stated to move away from this primarily to counter the rise of elites in the East. He preferred a feudalist system in which a few were great and decided the destiny of a many. He started to change policies and replaced board/committee members with his own loyal supporters. What was Awo to do, as leader of the party? Stand by and watch one man replace democratic socialism with feudalism? Akintola, without consultation with the party, decreed that secondary students would start paying school fees. There was an outcry in the press and Awo interferred.

'Wetie' incidents were a result of (1) Balewa, Bello, Zik interference in the Western region. Akintola had been dismissed as premier and deputy party leader but through his friendship with Bello, Zik, Balewa, the judgement which went against him was annuled as a result of Balewa retroactively removing the privy council as the final court of the state after Akintola's dismissal was upheld by the Privy Council. So, in other words, Akintola was foistered on the Western region and the people reacted violently. (2) Balewa implementing a State of Emergency in the West even though no state of emergencies were imposed in the North and East for events that were more violent than the chair throwing, started ironically by NCNC members in the Western House of Assembly.

I trusted that you would not disappoint in your response, unfortunately for you, today, I will take you to school. I dey go come.

[quote author=Great_Skess]Choi!!!
This is rubbish,absolutely rubbish!
Some nairanders cant express their Feelings without the existence of abusive word.This is what I call e-war!
A young man came online just to air his view due to the recent thought which seems to come his mind time and again,but the respone he gets from some individuals is a blind quote as reply.
ABSOLUTELY RUBBISH.!
Taking this issue to the sport view. Comparison has alway been an instrument of anger and intimidation. Even in football MARADONA Of all time was compared to MESSI,everyone has his/her choice to the aforemention çomparison.

Back to the matter!
The fact that AWO is being compare with GEJ Does not mean Gej is better than him and vice versa.
Although Our ever great and respected Jeremiah Obafemi Awolowo in terms of intellect(what some people see as their driving force) was better than Gej,despite all his intelligent he was still ignorance of the law! [/quote]More people need to see things through your lenses. I gbadun you, but please clarify who the red text above applies to, GEJ or Awo?

HNosegbe: Goodluck Jonathan has nowhere NEAR the intellect, charisma and foresight of Awolowo.

I must have missed this post earlier.

Oga, you designed an arguement, then you scored a goal by making a statement in support of a non existent issue, and then 4 people liked your post. Clap for ya self. Nowhere in my post did I compare GEJ's intellect, charisma, and/or foresight to Awo's. Try another angle.

debetmx: It seems you just learnt English comprehension.

you dey play dodge ball abi?


[quote author=B.L.S]Anyway Kats would give you the education you so badly need which you would have had in your region if you lot had learnt to choose leaders on merit and results.[/quote]You are hiding under Kats's trouser, abi? Even Kats cannot deny that the Almajiri schools aand other Educational programs of GEJ's can be classified as Awoic type of programs.

debetmx: You better leave that "IGBO" joint before you run mad. Just my 50 cents. None of your leaders comes close even the cantankerous coward attested to this fact.

Another supremacist who is pretending to lack English comprehension.