₦airaland Forum

Dede1:
We shall borrow some leaves from Gowon when he declared that all serving soldiers should return to their regions of origin. The new countires shall keep the weapons stationed in its domain.

Will this new nation be open to joint security arrangements at all?  A type of arrangement that will protect all regional parties involved(the new southern nation plus the other northern nations) from invasion by foreign forces or is this out of the question?

Eziachi:
Please don't talk rubbish. When Ethiopia parted company with Eritrea, The Eritreans took their ocean/port with them and Ethiopia being landlocked now import all their stuff from the ports of neighbouring Djibouti as Eritrea totally refused them to use their port any any rate.

Your emotional outbursts are not going to help you in negotiating this new nation.  I am not talking rubbish as you stated. Please note that Eritrea took the ocean/ports by force and that Eritrea became a nation as a result of war.  I thought people were brainstorming on ways to form this new nation through negotiations. Try to keep this fact in mind and please control your emotions.

You either negotiate or secede and face another war.

Beaf:
We will only be interested in the attack helicopters, small arms and artillery; we will keep the Navy (the North has no use for it).
Most of the other weapons are very archaic and uninteresting.

It should be fairly straightforward to acquire very modern weapons. If the new weapons are very specialised and ultra modern, then they would initially be manned by foreigners and mecenaries. It would be better for us to immediately embrace IT based warfare systems like the rest of the modern World.
In our formative years, I would suggest that the country forms strategic military alliances, so that the borders will remain secure.

If this will be your response to the remaining parts of Nigeria, I'm afraid it will not be satisfactory to them. You need to go back to the drawing board and come up with specifics that would be attractive enough to those affected to enable them to part peacefully.

How do you all propose to reorganize the millitary after this new country is actualized? Will the Navy and all its current resources be garnished by the Republic of South Nigeria?

What about the Nigerian Army and Airforce, how do we share all the weaponry, armunition, and other resources?

Let's hear your ideas.

How does one reconcile a man entering Amsterdam without a passport and the same man having a US visa? Did they stamp the visa on his forehead?

EmperorOlu:
Are sure you are an IBO man ,you are starting to talk like an ABOKI.

Would you please clarify the above statement? One wonders whether ABOKI, as used here is a term of endearment or a bigotted statement.

Thanks

SapeleGuy:
I don laugh tire - threatening war for something you don't own or somewhere you don't inhabit. . .

Happy new year but the sad old problems persist.
Let nobody threaten war - nobody has a monopoly on violence.

Happy New Year to you as well. No one is threatening war. The fact remains that this hypothetical country will not exist without serious negotiations or a complete defeat of the North in another war.

Another question: Who will have citizenship of this new country? If an Idoma person, his father, and grand father were born in Warri, and have lived their all their lives, will they become automatic citizens?

@No2Atheism

I'm glad my questions have revealed the complexity of carving out one or more nations out of Nigeria. Your hypothetical country will remain hypothetical, without serious negotiations including agreements on boundaries, and even compensation. That is, unless you want to seceed by force.

Katsumoto:
Ok, the North will get a discount on goods and services.

Dede1:
You are a disappointment. How could you fathom this carp? Do you not understand the meaning of territorial integrity? I know at times you are off the pedal but not this bad.

What crap? The questions I asked must be answered to the satisfaction of all parties if this hypothetical country is to come to fruition peacefully.  They are hard questions, no doubt. Your implied answer will not be acceptable to all parties, rendering your dream nation, just that.

Katsumoto:
I reiterate again that, you can not share what does not belong to you. Only Sovereign nations with access to the sea or ocean have ports and navies. If the off-shore oil you refer to is with the territorial waters of a sovereign nation, then it belongs only to that Nation and not its neighbours regardless of whether they previously co-existed in one nation.

The topic of this thread is hypothetical, so are my questions. Don't read too much into things.

As you stated only sovereign nations have access to territorial waters, well the North is currently part of Nigeria and some of their resources, human or otherwise were used to develop the ports. To carve out a region out of Nigeria, and tell the North or any other region,  - get lost, you no longer have access to the ports and some other resources, the development of which they contributed, without some sort of negotiated settlement, in my view is foolhardy.

Onlytruth:
As much as you and I have battled each other in the past over issues with little respect for each others opinion, I think your question here makes absolute sense. The issues you raised are really what keeps Nigeria one, not love of the country or a shared collection of values or goals. So, any talk of restructuring or partitioning of the country MUST address them to everyone's satisfaction for this to happen without a war. The sooner people become realistic about that the better.
Those must be addressed in an exhaustive conference. I don't believe anyone wants a war in Nigeria, therefore people must not make unreasonable demands.

Wonders shall never end, who would have thought Onlytruth and I can ever agree on anything?  We can romanticize the idea of breaking up the country all we want - it will not happen peacefully unless these issues are carefully negotiated.

My believe is that we are better of as ONE nation but we must carryout exhaustive negotiatiations as you stated, to determine the way forward. The status quo is unacceptable.

Katsumoto:
If the concept of Nigeria only appeals to the North because or resource control and access to the ocean, then I think we should start preparing ourselves for this break-up either peacefully or violently. I never advocate violence as a means of resolving issues but do not for one second think that we will be afraid to fight if it boils down to it.

I simply asked a question as to how the oil and ports will be divided and also pointed out that I believe your response can only come to pass if the North is defeated in a civil war.  We can agree to disagree on the issue.

I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that the concept of Nigeria only appeals to the North because of resource control and access to the ocean. I think that idea is quite myopic - you certainly didn't get that idea from me.

Katsumoto:
Whilst I am not advocating for spliting the country, I see where you are going with this and I will respond accordingly. If Nigeria breaks up either into two parts or several parts, then the North can not have any ownership of any ports or off-shore oil. Why does Niger republic not claim ownership of our ports or off-shore oil? It is ludicrous to even think that the North will have access to anything. If it happens, then the North will have to pay for goods and services. This was the same sort of thinking exhibited by Jubril Aminu many years ago when he advocated that the North will have access to the Atlantic ocean if Nigeria breaks. Where in the world have you heard of a nation without access to the sea having a sea port or navy? Or do you suppose that a Northern Navy will be based at Lagos, Calabar or PH?

Katsumoto, Jubril Aminu's thinking has nothing whatsoever with my questions.  My questions were designed to make people think of practical ways of accomplishing the so-called Federal Republic of South Nigeria.

If Nigeria breaks up either into two parts or several parts, then the[b] North can not have any ownership of any ports or off-shore oil.[/b]

As a practical matter, the South Nigeria republic cannot exist in the manner you described above without the North being defeated in another civil war. Note that the ports and off-shore resources were developed by instruments collectively owned by Nigeria - all regions of Nigeria.   A negotiated sharing of those resources is the only thing that could work, in my view, without a war.  

Trust me, the North will never agree to the scenario you described without a war. The question is, are we ready for another civil war? If not, honest negotiations are the only way out.

SapeleGuy:
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Split the thing into Niger Delta, Odua & Biafra each with 100% resource control.

This republic of South Nigeria feels too much like from frying pan to fire.

100% resource control, ko? Which region will control offshore oil, and the port?

er, Will this new Southern Nigeria give up all claims to the off-shore oil as a condition to seceed? If not, what's the suggestion for how to share it? What about future off-shore oil finds, how do we share that.

Will this new country take full control of all the major ports, in Lagos, Warri, and others?

naijaking1:
Good to see you mallam, yaya aiki, yaya mata?
I was in NIgeria 2 days ago, specifically in Abuja, and Kano. I asked about you, and all I got was mallam ndu_chucks ba anan.
Happy New Year, buddy!

Welcome back. Nwanne m, Ekelere m gi maka Keresimesi na ubochi izizi afo ozo

@naijaking, Nairaland is a unique site in that it provides all the services you mentioned. I thinks people are debating semantics here. It is clear that nairaland is not just a service provider of news, but is also one of the largest forum sites in the world.

We all appreciate the opportunity to be able to meet here and exchange views and useful information. Kudos to Seun for having his site mentioned.

May the polularity of the site grow exponentially in the New Year!

ElRazur,

Please note that I simply pointed out that the Toronto Star writer may have plagiarizied. The falsity of the writer's claim that nairaland is a news service is not in dispute.

The title of this thread should have been more appropriately "Nairaland Mentioned In Toronto Star e.t.c."  I suspect that the author of the article plagiarized an article written in allafrica.com by a Nigerian journalist. I additionally suspect that the said author, is a frequent visitor of nairaland and may even be a member.

Here is an extract of the allafrica.com article which was published Dec. 27.  Note that the Toronto Star article was published Dec 31.

Extract from allafrica.com  The plagiarized piece is in bolded text below:

35 Days After, Nigeria Groans Without a President

Omololu Ogunmade

Lagos — Like a tale from the moonlight, 35 days has elapsed after President Umaru Yar'Adua embarked on a medical trip to Saudi Arabia where he is being treated for acute pericarditis, an inflammation of the membrane covering the heart. The President is receiving treatment at King Faisal Specialist Hospital and Research Centre in Jeddah.

Since then, things have not been at ease in all the spheres of the country's operations. Concerns have continued to mount across the country on the rising consequences of the president's non-availability to champion the daunting task of leading a complex and heterogenous entity called Nigeria.

There are insinuations that since the Nigeria's driver's seat has been vacant, the country has run like a vehicle with a full load of passengers, yet without anyone controlling the vehicle's direction. This has raised fears of the possible fatal crash of such a vehicle unless a drastic measure is taken to ensure that a competent driver is drafted into the vehicle with urgency

http://allafrica.com/stories/200912280253.html

The Toronto Star journalists did not quote anyone on nairaland, but apparently plagiarized as shown above.

Afam:
Which one come be nairaland.com news service abeg?

people de read una posts here and dem dey convert them to news!  i suspect say de person wey write dat article, oliver ward, na one incompetent south south nigerian reporter.  ( e fit be beaf sef, olodo)

Katsumoto:
Your allegations seem to be based on hear-say. They may be well have been true but they can not be fact without substantiated evidence.

The allegations and many of his assertions are indeed based on hearsay. Dede1 and other revisionists like him peddle these untruths all over the internet and simply expect everyone to accept these untruths as gospel. He has no evidence whatsoever to support his claims. Dede1 should provide supporting evidence if he has any.

Katsumoto:

I take it you are referring to the grand escape as Biafran soldiers invaded the mid-west.

Dede1:
Pal, the dude added another dimension to the alleged issue of global warming. He proffered human power.

Dede1:
It is your prerogative to select whom you want to idolize and castigate. But you do not have the same privilege to distort history from truth.

The OP-Immediate signal to the coup plotters was to arrest the targeted objects. If the objects resist arrest, then maximum force deemed necessary should be applied to subdue the objects.

Major Eniwetok was assigned to flush out Brig. S. Etymology: CO 1st Brigade, Col Shortened: Commandant NM TC and 2ICC 1st Brigade, Lt. Col. Grub: CO 3rd Battalion and Alga Kashmir Ibrahim: Governor of northern region of Nigeria.

Brig. Ade mulegun and his wife were shot to dead because the CO resisted arrest. The wife was inadvertently shot as she tried to protect her husband.

Col. Shortened was shot and stray bullet injured his second wife who was pregnant at the time. The wounded wife of the Colonel did not die as a result of the gun shot wound.

Lt. Col G. Grub, CO 3rd Battalion was in army headquarters in Lagos.

Alga Kashmir Ibrahim was arrested without any shot fired.

I can not fathom what informed your opinion of idolizing one coup plotter and vilifying the others. 

It has been allegedly written that Irons was tipped off by the wife of Brig Zakari ya Malaria after soldiers chased her husband to the backyard. Even though Maj. Olaf’s team gave a chase but IrIronsas able to elude the pursuing squad by driving into YaABAilitary cantonment.

Again, Maj. AdAdageas shot by the mutinous northern soldiers of 4thThattalion, Ibadan. Please read the Nigeria’s Five Majors, NowaNowayiMorgue Why We Struck.

In addition to targeting soldiers in command positions, soldiers accused of introducing tribalism into the army, nepotism, involved in shady financial deals and those that reduced themselves as errand boys of the corrupt politicians were equally targeted.

Dede1, Your  pitiful attempts at distorting historical events while accusing others of doing the same thing, is appallin. The  Jaunuary Coup was an Igbo coup, period! Inaddition to facts that you dismiss by providing useless explanations to support your bogus claims, a very credible eyewitness to the event, Major General David Akpode Ejoor, political and military leaders of Igbo extraction had nursed the ambition of upturning the Nigerian political space because their leading light, Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe, emerged only as a nominal Governor-General while power resided in another geo-political zone.

I find Ejoors historical accounts more credible than those of  Nowa Omoigue,  a "historian" who has been wrong on several occasions. Continue to bury your head in the sand, soon enough you'll need some fresh air.

Superego:
This guy was a kid.

Do we have a big problem with todays kids worldwide as this article describes?

http://www.newsrescue.com/2009/12/generation-doom-should-we-be-scared-of-our-youth/

23 year old man na kid for ya village?

Onlytruth:
And you are a duplicitous unionist who is not interested in reason or facts.
Your thieving kinsmen desperately need the union to enable you continue with your thefts. Ok, since you so much believe in the union, why not hand over the presidency to Goodluck Ebele Jonathan.
Why are you pussyfooting  
Only the gullible will continue buying your lies. Muddefukcer.

The bolded portion of your statement above, exposes your lack of understanding of Nigeria and the Nigerian condition. It is quite obvious to intelligent observers that the thieving elite, who come from North, East, South, and West, are responsible for the actions in your statement above. You are unfortunately too drunk to see this obvious facts.

Mr. Jonathan should become the acting President if the conditions stipulated in the constitution are met, period. I wonder whether you have contacted your representative in the house of assembly (if you know who he is) to initiate an impeachment proceeding, if you believe Yar'Adua has committed any related impeachable offense.

Onlytruth:
That is why an almajiri like ndu_chucks is here to defend backwardness and insult the section of the country that has ever won international respect for Nigeria.

Please lookup the meaning of the word almajiri, I don't believe you know what it means. dummy.

Katsumoto:
Where have been all the while? Have you been following this discourse?

I have been enjoying your conversation with Afam and I must say that I appreciate its mature nature.

While the Araba killings in question were deplorable by any standard, it is quite obvious that it was triggered by the coup, marked by the killing of leaders from the North and West, as you pointed out.  

Onlytruth, in his infinite dumbness decided to ask a stupid question and I felt compelled to straighten him out.  Onlytruth is a seccesionist who is not interested in reason or facts - he is what my friends would calll olodo rabata. dan iska

Happy New Year in advance.

Onlytruth:
@Katsumoto
^^^^

Just before the Kumbaya, you side-stepped the fact that the killings of Igbo civilians (the pogrom proper) was not conducted by military personnel of the north or elsewhere. It was conducted by civilians -neighbors killing neighbors. I believe that is at the heart of the discourse. I don't really care much about northern soldiers killing Igbo politicians and soldiers. Igbo civilians never participated in anything in January 1966. So, how come civilians in the north and west descended on their Igbo neighbors in an or.g.y assembly of killing? That is at the root of the whole national question. The Machiavelli quote is really unfortunate and out of contest. That question could help prognosticate a possible repeat. Are Igbos safe in Nigeria? What will trigger the next killings?

The bolded is a silly and dumb question. Soldiers killed off their revered leaders in a matter of 1 day, civilians reacted to the killngs, and you ask such a dumb question.

@OP, what's the purpose of inserting the word "Almajiri" into the title of this thread? What advised your calling Mrs Emily Oguadinma, Almajiri?

We all should be proud of the actions of Abdulmuttalab, the father. His action should have prevented the act carried out by his son, if US agencies had done their jobs,

(CNN) -- The[b] father [/b] of terrorism suspect Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab talked about his son's extremist views with someone from the CIA and a report was prepared, but the report was not circulated outside the agency, a reliable source told CNN's Jeanne Meserve on Tuesday.

Had that information been shared, the 23-year-old Nigerian who is alleged to have bungled an attempt to blow up a jetliner as it was landing in Detroit, Michigan, on Christmas Day might have been denied passage on the Northwest Airlines flight, the source said.

U.S. officials said the father, a former Nigerian banker, expressed his concerns about his son's radicalization during at least one meeting and several calls with officials at the embassy in Nigeria.

The information on AbdulMutallab had been sent to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, but it sat there for five weeks and was not disseminated, the source said.

Federal authorities have charged AbdulMutallab with trying to detonate explosives hidden in his underwear as the flight from Amsterdam, Netherlands, made its final approach to Detroit. The device failed to fully detonate, instead setting off a fire at his seat

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/29/airline.terror.cia/index.html

Al-Qaeda ‘groomed Abdulmutallab in London’

The Christmas Day airline bomb plot suspect organised a conference under the banner “War on Terror Week” as he immersed himself in radical politics while a student in London, The Times has learnt.

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, a former president of the Islamic Society at University College London, advertised speakers including political figures, human rights lawyers and former Guantánamo detainees.

One lecture, Jihad v Terrorism, was billed as “a lecture on the Islamic position with respect to jihad”.

Security sources are concerned that the picture emerging of his undergraduate years suggests that he was recruited by al-Qaeda in London. Security sources said that Islamist radicalisation was rife on university campuses, especially in London, and that college authorities had “a patchy record in facing up to the problem”. Previous anti-terrorist inquiries have uncovered evidence of extremists using political meetings and religious study circles to identify potential recruits.

It emerged last night that Mr Abdulmutallab featured on the periphery of one counterterrorism intelligence operation in Britain. US intelligence authorities are also looking at conversations between him and at least one al-Qaeda member.

The event he organised took place in January 2007 and included talks on Guantánamo Bay, the alleged torture of prisoners and the War on Terror.

He is the fourth president of a London student Islamic society to face terrorist charges in three years. One is facing a retrial on charges that he was involved in the 2006 liquid bomb plot to blow up airliners. Two others have been convicted of terrorist offences since 2007.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6971098.ece?&EMC-Bltn=DAOBX1F

Beaf:
ndu_chuks is sounding very very desperate.

I wonder why? Yar Adua has been trying this Africom stunt for a long time now, it has not worked. The simple reason is that, it is fo.ols and criminals thinking that they can use the US to do their dirty work and preserve their filthy bunkering lucre (the country losses US$14 billion annually). The very same people are using almajiri, sharia and Boko Haram as political tools, but God don catch de bas.tards.

The scion of a leader of their evil cabal took the war from Katsina to Detroit.
De boy papa na serious mafia member, with cabal connections with everything from the infamous NNDC to the first Islamic bank and every other thing unprogressive in the country.

I laugh in Mutallab.

SapeleGuy:
Oniovo, this is what I am saying. The man's hands are not clean but yet people are swallowing his cock and bull story.
These are the people funding these fundamentalist groups in this country.

beaf & sapeleguy, you guys should be deeply ashamed of yourselves for continuously blaming everything on northerners. Both of you are typically objective but I am very disappointed at your utterances regarding the recent act of terror against the USA.

According to CNN and reports coming out of the white house, terror suspect Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab's father talked about his son with the CIA wherein he gave the CIA his son's passport number and told the CIA that he believes that his son is mixed up with extremists in Yemen!  He had several meetings with US officials at the US embassy in Abuja on several occasions thereafter. Despite these facts you people continue to try to associate Farouk's action with some evil cabal based in Katsina! How intellectually dishonest of you?

I'm afraid, you people are tribalists and are the real extremists. Shame on you.

By the way, who the heck is named Oniovo, what an ugly name. 

SapeleGuy:
Life is not only about black and white- there are shades of grey in between. If we are using your blanket value judgement we would say that Nelson Mandela and ANC were wrong to liberate their people from the grip of apartheid. That was also defined as terrorism.

Stop trying to beautify your warped stance with Mandela's name. Mandela never tried to blow up a plane carrying hundreds of people, he was never a kidnapper, or oil bunkerer, Mandela was no criminal. What's criminal is your act of comparing mandela with your adored terrorists - for that, you yourself deserve jail term. olodo.

There is no blanket value judgement going on, a person that tried to blow up a plane carrying innocent people, and MEND that kidnaps, perpetrates oil bunkering, and other criminal acts are terrorists. period.

SapeleGuy:
The first place is to define terrorism and then we can move forward.

Terrorism is criminal whichever way you choose to define it. You should not have any reservations about its condemnation. shikena.