₦airaland Forum

timbros:
The main debate here is Lukaku vs Costa.

Has Costa improved Chelsea since he signed? Resounding yes! Costa's goals in his first season fired us to our first league in 5 years. Costa's goals is currently keeping us in first position.

Has Lukaku improved Everton? Capital NO! Since Lukaku came, Everton have gone from at least top 8 team to bottom half team. He may have been their highest goal scorer since he arrived (personal improvement), but the team have not improved one bit since he signed.

Has Lukaku's output being better than Costa's since Costa came to England? NO!

Who is more efficient in front of goal since Lukaku became a professional in 2009? COSTA!

If Lukaku and Costa find themselves in the same team RIGHT NOW, Lukaku will take a permanent position in that team’s bench with better seat belt to go with it. That's how superior Costa is to Lukaku.

The main debate here was not Lukaku vs Costa. That was something you chose to make yourself

I don't understand how anyone can be so incapable of logical reasoning.

What is a strikers job? To score goals right? So when you talk about a striker improving the team, you surely must be talking about the attack. Lukaku has managed to post the highest individual numbers in a season at Everton for over a decade. How is that not an improvement? Where else or how else should a Striker improve the team?

You asked for the numbers since Costa came to England and Lukaku came out on top.

You asked for the numbers since 2009 and Costa and Lukaku are tied.

Your argument now is that Costa is a better striker because of his goal per minute ratio, which again shows that you are fully incapable of understanding Stats.

Kelechi Iheanacho had the best goal per minute stats in all of Europe only recently. Only a fool will take that as proof of anything in isolation

Costa is expected to have more goals per app, as he generally recieves far better service than Lukaku as has been proven with chance created figures. The fact that Lukaku who is feeding on scraps has managed to still outscore Costa since Diego arrived in England is a testament to his abilities.

Finally you seem to be forgetting that only this summer, Diego Costa was going to be sold for Lukaku, and Chelsea put in a bid of over 50 million pounds for him. You must be jonzing badly if you think no coach would pick Lukaku over Costa.

timbros:
You are talking as if you haven't seen vastly experienced players who change league and suddenly struggle to adapt in his new environment.

Defence doesn't win you the league. Attack does. What's so hard to understand there? Football is simply, outscore your opponent chikena. Even if you concede 20 goals per match and is able to score 21 goals per match, you will win the league. But tighten your defence, keep clean sheet in all 38 matches and don't score let's see how you can win the league.

If we hadn't scored against Boro and West Brom, that is 4 points dropped. Defence have done their job (keep clean sheet) but without Costa's goals, we would have been below Liverpool and/or Arsenal.

Lukaku improving his goal tally for the past seasons in Everton is just a personal achievement. His goals have not in any way improved Everton’s overall campaign in the said seasons. Emaprince has even showed you here that Everton of Yakubu era is even better than Everton of Lukaku era.

Timbros I like you. I don't like the way you are talking like a neophyte.

You clearly don't understand my point. Twisting my example to try and show what happens when Costa does not score is completely ignorant of the inherent point.

Nobody argues that goals are not important. Afterall Lukaku was the 4th highest scorer last season. The point here is that regardless of the goals scored by a striker, the utility of his goals are only apparent when his team manage to keep out more than he scores.

That's why I gave the example of Kane who outscored Vardy and Aguero who tied Vardy for goals, yet Leicester won the league.

Just this weekend, Lukaku scored a brace, but his team conceded 3 to lose 3-2. How useful were his goals then? A fool will say that Lukaku is rubbish because his goals did not translate to a win.

Lukaku scored 18 league goals last season. Costa scored 12. Yet Chelsea finished above Everton.

An idiot will say Lukaku did not improve Everton last season, but only THREE players scored more in the league last season, and yet TEN teams finished ahead of Everton.

Saying that Lukaku's improvement upfront is merely a personal improvement is a very stupid thing to say, because it implies that a Striker who contributed a total of 24 league goals last season, and scored more goals than over 400 registered players in thr league, should have been playing in goal.

lordfalcao:
G make we leave Costa Mata, everybody know who better pass jaree. How you day?

Bro I dey like Dele. How your chics?

lordfalcao:
doesn't it tell you. That if Costa can score 45 in 2 season same as lukaku, although lukaku have played 2 years already on loan to westbrom and Everton before Costa joined EPL he will smartly outscore lukaku in 2 seasons to come.

I'm not surprised you didn't figure it out...

lordfalcao:
you mean the same amount of goals Costa score in 2 season too??

You've already trapped yourself with this question.

Figure it out.

lordfalcao:
it still didn't change that the next two seasons he took them to 11th

This would make sense if Lukaku did not score 45 goals over the last 2 seasons...

Try again.

timbros:
Does winning La Liga and making UCL final appearance make Costa more experienced than Lukaku in the English premier league?

It is interesting how you turned a blind eye on the point that Costa's goals gave us a domestic double in his first season!

Costa is the main reason we are top of the league today. As tight as our defence is, would they have given us 6 points from Boro and West Brom matches?

You still haven't converted their goals per game % let's see who is better.

Strikers A played 20 matches and scored 10 goals and Striker B played 10 matches and scored 8 goals. Striker A must be better because he scored more goals.

I don't know how you guys analyse things like neophytes.

Costa is a vastly experienced striker who was the focal point of a la liga winning team and UCL finalist.

That sort of experience was replicated when he scored 20 goals for Chelsea is his debut season, so your point about Costa lacking EPL experience is moot and and of no real value

Costa's goals are useful yes, but there are currently teams who have scored more than us sitting below us on the table. Anybody with eyes can see that the main difference is that Chelsea has conceded fewer goals than 18 other teams in the league.

If we had conceded a goal each in the Boro and West Brom matches, we would be 2nd, and only 2 points ahead of Liverpool. Costa would still have his 12 goals aND still top the goal chart. We just won't be top of the league, which is EXACTLY What happened to Harry Kane last season, and is what is happening to Lukaku now.

I have shown you charts over the last 3 seasons showing that even at our worst, Chelsea was creating exponentially more chances than Everton.

I mean Fab was the top assister in 14/15 FFS. You want to compare Costa's almost telepathic service from Fabregas to what Lukaku is receiving from the like Tom Cleverly and Gareth Barry?

What is wrong with you people sef?

lordfalcao:
Lukaku didn't take Everton to the Europa league. When he signed Everton finished 5th..

Why are you embarrassing yourself?

hensben:
Lukaku's problem is not scoring but he is technically average/poor. He is not really good at linking up play when attacking which is not good for big teams.

He does better than Costa in that regard too.

Lukaku's main problem is his laziness. Everything else he's roughly on par if not better than Costa.

lordfalcao:
Destroyed by what?? All your analysis says " lukaku scored little more in the league because he played more. These are poor facts..

I don't care to know when Diego started playing, if lukaku is better he should have outscored him. Less than 20 goals is nothing.

Everton started falling from the days of lukaku. If lukaku is gold he should improve Everton just to Europa league spot...

What's the poor fact?

Lukaku has more goals. Fact

Lukaku has more assists. Fact.

Costa's team creates a ridiculous amount of chances compared to Lukaku. Fact.

Lukaku's output has improved every year since he went to Everton. Fact.

Lukaku's goals have helped take Everton to the Europa spot that you were asking for. Fact.

Take several seats bro. And Wear your facecap

lordfalcao:
oga Costa is head and shoulder better than lukaku.. In overall everything...

Telling me Costa started before him is like a story of a boy who grew up to say he is now wiser than his Father.. Since you know Costa started above him why comparing son with father??

After being destroyed, you've shifted to baseless yarns.

Diego Costa started playing when Lukaku was 12 years. The difference in goal output is less than 20 goals overall.

What me I need to know is how Lukaku did not improve Everton.

lordfalcao:
69>44 shows Costa is a better finisher than lukaku.

Lukaku has actually helped in declining Everton.. A prolific goal scorer is a scorer no matter the teams he plays for.. It still shows lukaku is no where Costa..


.

Lukaku has gone from 16 to 20 to 25 goals in his 3 seasons at Everton. I'm not sure how Lukaku is not prolific given the quality of his teammates
Go and sleep, you are yarning nonsense now.

The stats I use shows that lukaku isnt really a top scorer if he can only beat someone who played 2/5 of the matches he has played by a mere margin. In overall career goals and assist Costa have been better.

This statement makes no sense because Costa has been playing longer than Lukaku

Costa has improved Chelsea his goals and assist did 30-40% of giving these clubs titles. Lukaku's goal can't even book a Europa league spot for his team..

You keep yarning bollocks. Everton finished 5th in Lukaku's 1st season there, and he won the Europa League golden boot the season after.

See below the Chance Created table for the last 3 seasons. I don't understand how Costa who enjoys far more chances than Lukaku improves Chelsea by scoring fewer goals, yet Lukaku does not improve Everton...

How does Lukaku not improve Everton? Don't let me think that you've been wasting my time o...

lordfalcao:
lukaku is in his 5th year in the EPL. 163 matches, 69 goals, 31 assist.

Costa in his 3rd year 69 matches. 44goals, 28 assist..


Costa has only played 2/5 of the matches lukaku has played but have 1/2 of lukaku's goal and assist. Find another reason to credit lukaku this one won't work.

No right thinking manager will pick lukaku over Costa. Quote this every where.

This is Lukaku's 4th season in the EPL bro. Not his 5th.

Let's start with the facts.

1. From what I can see 69 >44

2. Lukaku has played in teams that finished 8th 5th 11th 11th over the last 4 seasons.Costa is playing for a team that has finished 3rd,3rd,1st and 10th over the same period.I think it's pretty obvious who is likely to get better service

3. The best you can do using stats is prove that Costa has been marginally better in the league since moving to England. Same Stats will show you that Lukaku has been better in the cups and in overall raw numbers. So a case can be made for either player.

The question though is, on what metric has Lukaku not improved Everton? And if Lukaku has more club goals and assists over the last 3 seasons, how can Costa be seen to have improved Chelsea?

timbros:
Lukaku's superior appearances over the 3 seasons in question only makes it natural that his goal/assist should be more. Now consider the goals per minute percentage and tell me who is deadliest. And you are forgetting that Lukaku has been in England 3 years before Costa, so he has adapted well to the league. That comparison is very unfair to Costa.
.

Lukaku's only real experience in England was with West Brom. Diego Costa had just won la liga and made a(brief) appearance in UCL final. I think I know who the more experienced player is.

Anyway, my point is not to prove which player is better. Costa has played in better teams than Lukaku for most of his career and his output is not better than Lukaku's. Infact, it's been exactly the same since 2009.

My point was questioning how Lukaku had not improved Everton, while Costa had improved Chelsea. I want to know what metric we can use to prove such an assertion.

Costa's goals and assists gave Chelsea her first EPL in 5 years. His goals and assist gave Chelsea League Cup in his first season. If thats not improvement, I don't know what is. Presently his goals and assists is keeping Chelsea at the top of the table.

It is not just Costa's goals and assists that are keeping us at the top of the table. Based on Goals and assists alone, we would be third. 2 of the current top 4 have outscored us, and we only have one more goal than City. The reason we are 1st is our mean defence, having conceded the (joint) fewest goals in the league.

Remind me the trophy Lukaku's goals and assists gave Everton.

And please don't tell me how Everton is a 'dead' club. Leicester fought relegation in 2014, we know what Vardy's goals and assists did for them the next season.

What a poor analogy

Harry Kane bettered Vardy, and Aguero tied him last season, yet the Spurs and city defences let them down at crucial points in the season. Leicester only lost 3 games last season, which is why their centreback and DM also made PFA team of the year....

It's not a coincidence that Koeman has already criticised his defenders in the media this season for "really bad defending". Unless your point is that Lukaku most score and defend at the same time

lordfalcao:
.. Costa have improved virtually every team he has played for, the same cannot be said for our lukaku.. Statistics still shows Everton was an average team that started declining when lukaku joined them..

Stats are not for everybody. There is a cardinal rule in Statistical Analysis that says 'Correlation does not imply Causation'

Google that.

I could point out that Lukaku finished 5th in his first season at Everton, and the club began to suffer as their aging and creaking defence began to collapse under a manager that had relegated his previous Club and came very close to relegating Everton.

This is the second season Costa is playing in England but he has scored 80% of what lukaku has scored playing lesser matches sef

This is Costa's 3rd season in England. Lukaku has both outscored and out assisted Costa while playing for a lesser club on thr same period of time. If Lukaku has not improved Everton based on goals or assists, on what basis had Costa improved Chelsea?

In fact give keoman Costa and watch lukaku been used for capital one cups only. grin grin grin

You might have forgotten that Costa was almost replaced by Lukaku this season, Everton just refused to sell.

raumdeuter:
Winning the Copa dey rey together with CL and League = Treble

You cannot win a treble is you replace Carling cup with Copa del rey unless you replace Copa del rey with FA cup

Why does Carling Cup not qualify as Treble? Winner of both go to Europa.

Also FA Cup is for everybody in England. Copa is restricted to 4 leagues. Carling is also restricted to 4 leagues.

So what is the difference between Carling and Copa?

raumdeuter:
COpa del rey is the biggest cup competition in Spain while Carling cup was designed as a consolation for teams who crash out of the FA cup

Copa del Rey is ONLY Cup competition in Spain.

Winner of Carling Cup goes to Europa. Winner of Copa goes to Europa.

What's the difference?

raumdeuter:
is this a serious question?

Yes, how is Copa Del Rey different to Carling Cup?

Explain.

timbros:
This is Costa's 3rd season in England (including the abnormal last season he had). Even at that, check the number of appearances and compare it with goals, you will find out that Costa's output is superior to Lukaku's.

I'm comparing both of them over the last 3 seasons(since Costa came to England), and Lukaku has more goals and assists whilst playing for mid-table Everton.

If you really want to compare both players, check their goals from 2009 when Lukaku's career started.

Lukaku 128 goals and 52 assists all comps since 2009, 180 goals total

Costa 131 goals and 49 assists all comps since 2009 180 goals total

Lukaku was 16 years old at the start of this Comparison btw

This is not even the bane of contention sef. If Lukaku has not improved Everton despite outscoring Costa over the last 3 seasons so far, then Costa has definitely not improved Chelsea.

Kpokwem.

raumdeuter:
Copa del Rey is the equivalent of FA cup in Spain.

Carling cup is where most coaches play their reserve team to gain experience

How is Copa del Rey the equivalent of FA Cup?

landinfo:
For me, I would take an Iniesta/Zizou/Modric/Xavi (their creativity) over a Lampard

Good job nobody asked you...

Debroslink:
Ogbeni, swerve if you have nothing to say. Your guy went to pad up carling cup stats as if we care about it.

It's only in ur pathetic league that Liverpool will call FA cup, carling cup and Europa cup a TREBLE.

What's the difference between Carling Cup and Copa Del Rey?

raumdeuter:
I posted a previous post where he was saying

Well, I guess Ibime is also guilty of overrating Iniesta the same way A40 overrated Aguero...

lordfalcao:
nobody is dragging whether lukaku is good with you...

Everton have been average and lukaku have not improved them in any aspect. Lukaku is good averagely but they are 3-5 strikers in the premier league that I will first have in my team even before picking lukaku..

Considering that there are 20 teams in the league, the fact that Lukaku has a chance of making your list top 5 overall strikers of even a hater like you just shows how good he is.

I don't know how you can say that Lukaku has not improved Everton with a straight face. Has Costa improved Chelsea? What if I told you that Lukaku has more goals than Costa in all comps since Costa came to England...more assists too

What would you say then?

Some of the yarns you guys vomit sometimes though...

lordfalcao:
This is Everton with yakubu and co you quoted..
2009/2010- 8th
2010/2011- 7th
2011/2012- 7th
2012/2013- 6th.

Then lukaku came and Everton started playing.
2013/2014- 5th
2014/2015- 11th
2015/2016- 11th..

Is it a coincidence that lukaku came and they started going down .. Clearly the days of yakubu was better to Everton than the days of lukaku now. Lukaku is even helping them cement relegations spot actually..

Everton back then were based on solid defence with good defenders.

Back then Everton had the likes of Yobo, Distin, Lescott, Heitinga and co in defence, the likes of Pienaar, Arteta and Cahill in midfield and David Moyes was good back then. They would share the few goals they scored around the team, and concede few goals in return. For example that 09/10 season, Saha scored 15 goals, Cahill scored 10, Pienaar scored 7. The next season, Beckford scored 10,Saha scored 10, Cahill scored 9,

Now Everton are useless in attack and rely almost exclusively on Lukaku for any goals. 2013, Lukaku scored 16 goals, the next guy was Naismith with only 9 goals all season. 2014, Lukaku scored 20, the next guy Mirallas scored only 11. Last season Lukaku scored 25, the next guy scored only 12.

And while the other guys are failing to match Lukaku's output offensively, defensively they are leaking like Baskets.

You think that Lukaku's own manager was joking when he said that Lukaku was to good for Everton? Lukaku is an alaga, and is the best striker in the league(and one of the best in Europe) under the age of 24. In case you forgot, Lukaku is still only 23

AdisaOwala:
The agidi wey that arrogant baldman dey do go still cost am many more games - that hin obsession with unnecessary tactical inventions (& re-inventions) would be his greatest undoing in the EPL.

EPL wey no send anybody message.

Sharp sharp eruku smash and grab bandits na hin full EPL.

See that Leicester game... Leicester had 22% possession. They had the ball for less than 20 minutes all game and still managed to pot 4 goals.

Pep needs to wake up. EPL is not like Bundesliga where Bayern's opponents will give them back the ball to try again when they miss a shot.

lordfalcao:
over the last 6 years Everton has always been average with and without lukaku.. Nothing has even changed..

Except before Lukaku, Everton's highest goal scorer in the EPL era was Alhaji Yakubu 'onikun' Aiyegbeni.

Fellaini was their highest goal scorer with only 12 goals in all comps before Lukaku came on the scene to bang in 16, 20, 25 in consecutive seasons.

Lukaku is a chairman. Show some respect.

lordfalcao:
everton now a dead team

Everton have been dead for a while.

They've finished in the bottom half of the table for the last 2 seasons, and they're not far from there again....

If not for Lukaku would be firmly in relegation zone by now...

Lukaku has 9 EPL goals lest we forget...

And this is while playing for a dead Everton team with Tom Cleverly and Ross Barkley

AdisaOwala:
Another 'Up Barka' fan decides to pollute the blogosphere with tripe irrelevant to the discussion at hand.......in typical fashion ofcourse.

Wetin concern Mourihno with Pep's tactical gaffes & Poor judgement (as regards the purchase of players) - factors that have culminated in City's disappointing form in the EPL for fùck's sake? Was the convo ever about Mourihno or did anyone even compare both managers in the posts you read?

Stop slurping on Pep's cùm - it's bad for your breathe (and health in general)!

Using KDB at left wingback really annoyed me on Saturday because I had money riding on KDB anytime scorer.

This yarns sef blow my head.

“I am not a coach for the tackles. I don't train for tackles….What are tackles?”

I'm gonna get fired at work if I keep reading this thread.

Airmark and raumdeuter wan use laugh tear my belle...

I really dont want to see Matic again...