₦airaland Forum

More from poster babs787

babs787 wrote: Do you care to show me your stand on Mutta from the Quran and scholars you claimed?

If you want to discuss Mut'a marriage, then let's go back to the thread where we've had some extensive discussion on Mut'a already, or, perhaps open a new thread; I will oblige you your request. Perhaps, it may be helpful to reread that thread? I have already given the basic surah/ayat from Al Quran; as to the supporting opinion and interpretations from scholars, I can assure you there's no shortage of those.

babs787 wrote: Now, go read the permissiblity of Music in Islam and when you are done, we take a look at different kinds of music, Haram, Halal, Makruuh, permissible, etc. . Now again, what is Asa's music all about and when you provide answer, when we would first see if its Islamic or not and when done with that, we look at it from Islamic perspective.

You diminish your response by referring to mine as a rant, and then going ahead to ask more about it. And, I wonder: so you don't know about Asa's music, yet, you condemn it? Why should I now take you seriously, having come to a conclusion about sth you've not examined? Perhaps Asa's kind of music is haram to you; it is permissible for me. And, as far as her talent has been published, I will recommend it for anyone wanting a peek into trado-contemporary stuff from South-Western Nigeria. What's your problem with that?

babs787 wrote: I don't argue blindly just like you might have been doing. I have provided you Hadith from the sayings of the prophet which you called a lie. I noticed that you have been denying most of what I have been serving you but havent been able to back it up with Hadith,Quran, Nimshi's saying or what have you. I noticed that you decided to ignore my posts but went picking ignorantly at my words on the first and second look. I wouldnt know what seems difficult for you to grab here.

Again, your response is diminished by your claim that one argues blindly. Here's sth you don't see: if you write a post with 1 million words, and I've chosen to repond to 5 words out of those, shouldn't you assume that I at least agree with or do not find any issues with the rest? This is elementary, and it should be at the back of your mind when writing responses. I will not be having the time to respond to everything you write, or to check every reference you make; but I'll pick out things that're strikingly unclear to me (they may be unclear because you've been unclear, or because I may have misunderstood them); yet, that shouldn't invite unbecoming words from you. If you agree with everything I write, then you're not really useful to me.
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From babs787, the exerciser: Still, that doesnt mean that you should called Allah, prophet Muhammads' sayings lies

Context?

Where have I done that?? Where have I called Almighty Allah a liar?

Where have I called the Prophet a liar??
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Pepper wrote: He may not be a practicing muslim therefore may not be able to cite any quran verse.

Your reasoning here is sound. I am quite able to cite verses in Al Quran. I will support positions with the correct citations - as I have done in the Mut'a discussion - when necessary. But I will do that if the issue couldn't be addressed from a common-sensical angle; I can tell you there's lots of cramming and simple recitation and little of thinking things through; that is why many can be exploited for, say, political ends: because they hang on every word they hear from a religious authority, unable to - being unused to - thinking for themselves. Yet, it is on this board that one poster noted that my posts contain a lot of "strange" (read: unfamiliar Arabic) words; this comment informed a more relaxed disposition. What's the use of posting things others find difficult to understand?
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From babs787, who's exercising himself on determining another's faith:

I know he must have seen this thread and my post but ignored it because he would be exposed further.

Another example of nonsensical drooling. I never saw your reply until you redirected from the other thread. You make such foolish claims and assertions one must wonder if you aren't deluded,

DavidDylan:
see long long meaningless sermons

David: There, you may have a point; yet, not all of it is meaningless; but much if it, yes. I've written it before: the intellectual volume of the Islam section on this board is so light as to be laughable; many times, you get to read Sarah Palin-ish stuff: "content-free blizzard of words"; it's annoying, and many times, you gets sucked in too.

olabowale: have you realized the foolishness of insisting on commenting on a book you've not read?
And, have you changed your opinion on random murder (either by fatwa from the Ayatollah or any other religious leader) in defence of the name of The Prophet? These are the two relevant issues henceforth; stop dragging important discussion into the mud of your nonsensical talk and name/associate dropping.
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Huxley: Smart Christians know to dodge deceptively simple questions, eh.

David: c'mon! Is the Messiah related to his foster father? Or, is his biological mother a descendant of King David*. Or, is she related to Ruth**? C'mon, you just harangued on Chris' thread that the bible is easy to understand. What's a question about the Messiah in all 50 threads? C'mon David, you better than that, ain't you? Give it a shot; you're a nice shot, no? ;-) [Note: no Tu quoque arguments, ok?]

*man after God's heart, repentant adulterer and murderer . . .
** she of the pimping by her MIL . . .
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Bobbyaf: are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

Perrito4u: are you one of Jehovah's witnesses?

vchlady: you'll learn a lot from Jehovah's Witnesses (henceforth, JWs), but watch out before you commit yourself. There are important questions to ask JWs before you commit to joining them.

Horus: JWs never considered CT Russell "a Christ" (putting the words in quotes doesn't change a thing). There're legitimate things that could be said against the JWs; that CT Russell was "a Christ" isn't one of them.

Ndipe: "Beth-Sarim" is an interesting topic; you'll find out that many JWs don't know anything about it; when they get to know about it, they just like to pretend it never happened.

DanHaszard: Wow! Aren't you everywhere?! How did you get here?? Know a bit of much of your active work regarding breaking free of Jehovah's Witnesses; information is a powerful thing. More power to your elbow.
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olabowale:
@Nimshi: « #82 on: Today at 02:43:10 PM »
Field of Medicine, specifically pharmaceutical. Field of governance, specifically executive and legislature. Field of Business and Industry, specifically Finance and banking. Please I will be wasting my time with you if I continue this dialogue any further.

You're very welcome. Sooo, what has the company you keep got to do with the validity of your comments about a book you've not read??

The Yorubas say "Ai lora Ogongo, ki se ka fi we tadi beren ku!" Remember that I practice Islam 24/7. The association is not impairing my Islam. And you expect me to give you the names of my friends and associates? You think this is "Nigerian" game of pompousity? No. If we are friends you would know. But we are not and my life is not for "Public consumption."

It is pomposity, but it needn't be specifically Nigerian. You're parading dignity and importance by mentioning people you claim to be your associates. Why was that necessary? First, because you supposed your words/opinions wouldn't command the respect you desire, and second, because you suppose you would impress anyone by such pretentious talk.

More importantly, its the "knowledge that Allah gives me" that matters. You know there are such a thing call "Personal secretary, or office manager or in house legal personnels. Please Nimshi, lets drop your pushing me to unveil myself. If I am from your family or your friend, you will be grateful to Allah that we have a commonality

What's worse than thinking these things is actually writing them. . .

And by the way, how could Einsten have had a good "friend" in the field of Physcis and mathematics, except that friend is almost as good? Birds of the same feathers flocks together.

You're not thinking correctly. Einstein had phycisist and mathematician friends. He also had as friend an art historian, at least. Your thinking is thus wrong; and quite elementarily so. And, while birds of a feather may flock together, that says nothing of their smartness 

Am too old for this type of dialogue, because you a doubting the "potentials" that Allah makes available for mankind.

Yeah. You get back with informed opinion when you read that book. Until then, your opinion on it is meaningless.

I simply let you know that I am an elephant or a male lion in the mist other beasts.

Elephant? What's that?

Male lion? Is there any other type of lion??

I am always trying to improve, though.

Good. We all need that. You, though, need shiploads of it.

olabowale:
@Nimshi: « #79 on: Today at 04:42:08 AM »
And they are people of substance in their societies: all of them across the West; US, Europe, Asia. Many are counted among the top 100 in their specializations.

Jeez; what a crock!

Which people of substance? What specializations??

You're immune to logical reasoning, so it's not strange that you don't get it that because you're a friend to Einstein doesn't mean you've got good sense. So what if you have associates who're tops in their specializations?? First off, one must wonder: do you communicate with them in languages other than English? Is how you write on this site the way you write with them? Look, no offence, but it's quite unlikely your claims are true, unless, of course, your abilities to reason are way beyond what you've displayed on these pages.

My "major" associates know the time that I may be making Salah. So they give me my space and I am not ashamed of being known as muslim in my organization. Should I hide Islam because of Trillions of Euros, USD, etc? I am happy that I am a muslim. I am grateful to Allah who has allowed my heart to be unwavering in it.

Don't you know that invoking your "major associates" is meaningless unless you're called out on your claims? What has having "major associates" got to do with having an opinion on a book you haven't read??

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affee:
@ topic
blasphemy

So, what is blasphemy?

Is it blasphemy to ask God not to piss in one's beer?

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First, I'm not sure that a demon can actually be housed in a christian; because the same person's body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

So how come Christians do sin? How could sin be visited on the Temple of the Holy Spirit?
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[Amy Grant] divorce? Aren't Christians not supposed to get divorced?

Gay people's music? Is there hetero music?

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Deepzone wrote:

The bible says that the only sin that is unforgivable is the sin against the holy spirit. What is that particular sin abeg? I know it's not murder or adultery, so what is that sin?

David?

David: hey, take a stab at this, eh.

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DavidDylan:
Have you considered how disturbing your daily call to prayer is? Or are we still hiding under the cloak of hypocrisy?

Have you considered how toxic your paintbrushing is?
And, do loud, disturbing call-to-prayers happen everywhere Muslims pray?
Or, do you suppose the world is made all up of the section of your dwelling?

PepERSprAY:
Nimshi is muslim though a bad one because the muslims outrightly rejected and excommunicated him in the other thread.

You, 'Peper', are talking about that which you know nothing of. Several reading-comprehension challenged folks out here. And that goes for you, David, since whenever you see "Islam" and/or "Muslim", your head becomes firmly implanted in your rectum.

PepERSprAY:
Better to piss off the neighbors than allow them to go to hell fire.

Except that your piss, being toxic, destroys the neighbours without salvation, and pollutes the environment to booth.
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Uh. You're looking for a Christian who'll argue that a revelation from God isn't real? Other than arguing that the vision isn't from God - this negating the premise of all of this business - that ain't gonna happen.
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DavidDylan:
Collin Powell has simply expressed the hidden feelings of millions. Hell will freeze over before a muslim is ever allowed to sensitive government positions in the West. You all have Osama Bin Laden to thank.

Thank God, some Americans are more reasonable than they're given credit for:

09 November 2006 - First Muslim Elected to the US. Congress -
http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2006/November/20061109140830mlenuhret7.070559e-02.html

And that, in 2006.

olabowale:
@Nimshi: « #76 on: Yesterday at 04:04:55 PM »
Sincerely, everyone of my associates is appreciative of my frankness. They know that Islam is the garment that I wear 24 hours a day. They respect my opinion and often considered and many atimes adopted as the Primary opinion of my organization. I have influenced many in my circle of association that non will indulge in Interest giving or taking in matters that they know am part of. Thats what my associates feel about me and Islam.

So much for your associates

Bastage wrote: But aside from that, isn't it amazing that you've been accused off dragging this off-topic dozens of times and now want to discuss a book? What has the Satanic Verses got to do with murdering people for not believing in the same god as you? Well, for once, this advertises your way of thinking and does explain something. You would hate the author of a book you know nothing about simply because other people tell you to. You would kill people who leave your religion simply because other people tell you to. Both are the act of somebody who cannot think for himself and just follows the rest of the sheep.

". . . the act of somebody who cannot think for himself and just follows the rest of the sheep"; precisely. That lack of curiosity about the rest of the world, the anti-intellectual stance, the recital by rote of rules, the absence of thinking based on principle, all characterise that poster. It is a dangerous thing; and to present himself as one who wears Islam 24/7

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Olabowale: from pilar to post; you've displayed the attention span of an attention deficit kid; questions, you never answer; reason, you never employ. I am firm in my repudiation: you do not speak for Islam; your intellect is beneath what is required in any discussion of anything Muslim; a disservice to Muslims, one must wonder what impression your associates have about Islam. Of course, your type may be useful in enclosed caves where openness and the ability to understand the world are useless; but in this modern world, you'd have to walk millions of miles to expand your knowledge so as to find a relevance that may contribute to socio-religious discourse.
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DavidDylan:
Chris . . . lets stop deceiving ourselves here - lust and sexual attraction are one and the same thing. Trying to split them so as to force an erroneous point is like claiming six is different from half a dozen.

C'mon, Dave. c'mon!

David: fine to see a return of Paul as author of Christianity theme.



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Jesus must be preached worldwide whether you like it or not.

Yeah; and all the while pissing off the neighbours too.
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javalove, Salam.

I can only say "Amin" for your prayer, and thank you for your kindness.

Terrorist: As said, it is important that we engage those who spread misconceptions. How come, I will ask, that Islam have become synonymous with terrorism? Muslims did not invent suicide bombings, neither attacks on civilian targets, neither attacks on military targets; so, how come? This has got to be one of the most successful media coups in recent memory. The West and the Western media have almost completely succeeded in consolidating the lie that Islam is a religion of violence. And they have got some help from Muslims too, I am afraid; issuing threats and getting all riled up because of injuries, particularly to incitement about the person of the Prophet has caused a lot of harm, and the political class in some Islamic countries have exploited the mostly uneducated masses for political ends. Yet, as the 9/11 attacks showed, these weren't uneducated people; quite the contrary. And people mix the activities of say, Hezbollah militants and Hamas. Heck, Hezbollah attacked Saudi Arabia. And people mention Saddam Hussein and accuse Islam; Hussein was a secularist. And, in the starkest views, what're the differences between the morality of Osama bin Laden and Gerge W. Bush? Not that there aren't problems in the house of Islam, but this wholesale condemnation of Islam as a den of terrorist is absurd.

Are Muslims also partly to blame? I must answer Yes. But I encourage rational discussions. When young Palestinians, say, resort to the tactic of blowing themselves off, is this a symptom of madness in Islam? People find easy explanations that fit their already existing paradigms; but almost always, the truth is deeper, and darker. If we don't expose those, no one else will. But there's some light; a recent example relates to the US/Muslim example you mentioned: Colin Powell just delivered a crushing logic pushing back against those who will suppose there's something wrong with being Muslim and American. There's some light; and being rational and calm could help.

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David, you're being outdone by your Christian brothers.

Wow! Lots Christian brain power here ain't it?

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. . .

There's (almost) always need to ask for details. That someone believes they're doing sth wrong doesn't necessarily mean they are; apparently, the fellow 's under some heavy load, some of it may be unfounded; a hint being that already, the mention of the "confraternity" word evokes negative feelings and responses.
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But why does he say the group is unholy?

Didn't you ask for the details?
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[quote author=Aloy.Emeka link=topic=187056.msg2988484#msg2988484 date=1224863002]I think you may persuade God by doing what is right first and not dancing and disturbing the neighbourhood. The bible ma sef said that tears do not move God. In the east, if a morning crier is preaching the gospel and disturbing people from their sleep, you dare not ask him or her to stop otherwise you will be labeled a demon. we either live with it even though they inconvinence us for fear of offending God that probabaly do not approve of that behaviour. if there is an uncompleted building near your place of residence, you go hear am because church people will move in, make sure you don't sleep in your home every sunday because they will make so much noise to aggravate you. that is what pentecostalism brought to Africa. Zip it or live with it but their days of freedom are coming to an end because so many people are getting concerned about that behaviour.[/quote]You're making good sense.

Noise.

Nasty.
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Your gimmick is to claim that since that I did not read this "book of Salman Rushdie," my opinion does not count!

That's correct. Your opinion on the contents of SV does not count because you confess to not having read the book. What's there to discuss with you? You want to tell me things you've heard about the book? How do you begin to discuss the details of a book you haven't read

Do I have to be in the bathroom to know that it smells bad after it has been used by someone who is spraying up the place with "scented air freshner" to give it the smell from the can?

Let's show up your logic for what it is: perhaps the fellow spraying the place is doing it perfunctorily? Perhaps all he's done is pee? Perhaps the the bathroom had a non-smelly stale air, and the fellow simply wanted to spice things up? You see, because someone's spraying the bathroom with stuff from a can of air freshener isn't a guarantee that the place was smelling bad; the "bad smell" is the fault of your assumption, which you've been conditioned to make about the bathroom.

Now thats what "Satanic Verses," is to me. Is the book, in your view in-praise of "Islam?"

Is "praise of Islam" the condition for your reading a book? Which newspapers do you read? Which books have you read this year? Do you screen all you read for this "in praise of Islam" litmus test before reading? For starters, Rushdie didn't invent the SV term; so there's histroricity there, predating Rushdie; so, what's the beef?

Sometimes, your writing critises instead of critiquing! That I do about "empathy" towards creations of Allah is between me and Allah. But than you for being a "reminder." I need to improve.

As do yours. This is a discussion board, and many times, we write as we speak; sometimes we don't. And, as you've extended it, we could all do with a bit of empathy, myself included.
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javalove:
@nimshi, what do u think too?

Here, for starters:

It is noteworthy that you mentioned that believers have used these terms too; I agree they have. But there is a lot of discussion about them. Particularly, "moderate Muslim"; I tend not to use it, but whenever this term comes up in discussions, I'd almost always request that it be explicitly defined. Many (not all) times, you'll find that there's a thick layer of prejudice beneath the use the "moderate Muslim" term. (If my interlocutor is a Christian, I ask them if a "moderate Christian" exists and request that they explicitly define who such a one is if the answer is 'yes'). But at other times, one may be 'forced' to go along with some definition of the term, perhaps for the sake of discussion. Words/terms are useful only to the extent that they improve discussion. I don't like the term "moderate Muslim", yet, will it be heresy to accept that it may be used in discussions? Once the meaning is clear and understood and consistent, then you could call it anything; you could define

"moderate Muslim" = " ultimate Muslim", or,
"moderate Muslim" = "halfway Muslim", or
"moderate Muslim" = "modern Muslim", or
"moderate Muslim" = "no Muslim", or

Whatever you wish.  I'll hope the point – which isn't really subtle – is clear.

You may have noticed that the "moderate Muslim" term gained currency after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the US; it's become quite popular in mainland Europe. Apparently, Osama bin Laden became the personification of "militant Islam" (another term). These terms have heavy political meanings.

And, since we're entering that sphere, let me stress here that I find attacks on soft civilian targets detestable and condemn the Sept. 11 attacks as actions from a group of cowards who have co-opted Allah's name in furthering their political ends. But, this is also important: I think Laden is on firm ground to insist that the US should exit Arabia. This may be impractical, but neither are US policies around the world, policies that have killed millions, much more than the precious lives lost on Sept. 11 and elsewhere through attacks by "militant Muslims" (I hope to always put these terms in quotes).

When considering the use of the term "moderate Muslim", it is important to remember the events that the manipulative US and Western media have succeeded in associating with Islam: the 9/11 attacks. Because of these contemporary issues, including the branding of Islam as a violent religion, terms such as "moderate Muslim" have gained currency, as if the ground state of Islam is 'not moderate'. We could expand this discussion, but, Ma'a salaama for now.
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