₦airaland Forum

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I ask once again @michelin89 are u gay or are u ashamed to admit or say it in public. How can u defend something u are ashamed of making a public statement about.

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@michelin89 are u gay or why are u supportive and feistly defending something that is indefensible.

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@michelin89 are u gay or why are u supportive and feistly defending something that is indefensible.

Sagamite:
Typical stupid arguments and regurgitation of the propaganda fed in the West.

What has democracy got to do with banning what is immoral and seen as detrimental to society.

[b]Democracy is the right for every individual to have equal rights to elect and appoint your leaders. That is ALL. NOT a passport for people to bastardise each others arse.[/b]

According to the stupid argument above, then we have no right to ban incest or nudists!

"Why should we, we are in a democracy".

@sagamite at least we agree on something.

Homosexuality is wrong pure and simple, call it whatever name u want to call it, it is still wrong. Men for the nonsense in Africa am still grateful i was not brought up in the rubbish Caucasian culture, I would have turned out worse than i am now had that been so.

According to some commentators on the internet,

Adam and Eve were created not Adam and Steve.

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just2day:
wat do u mean by milk for free. The milk women give is never free

FLGators you mean to say the Bitty you gave me is not for free

@topic


Honey sorry but our DNAs are not compatible

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why was my last post hanged on the reply page,  na wa o

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TUBABIE who won the first round, wetin happen to part one

@pilgrim.1   please let me respond to this before returning to my sabbatical

[quote author=Tùdor link=topic=279631.msg3985389#msg3985389 date=1244274894]Youngman, lion and tigers have been cross bred to form LIGER, horse and zebra have also been interbred. It might not support evolution,it doesn't support your theory either
And i'm pretty sure the koran,torah and verdas also mention the earth hanging.[/quote]1. First and foremost, am not a young man. its an insult to call a 29yrs dude a young man.

2. I am not here to defend the Koran or verdas or buddah or whatever, I am here to defend the Bible and show you via the bible that evolution is wrong. So pls don't change the subject to an issue of religion versus religion. This is an issue of Bible versus Evolution.

3.  i intentionally did not mention the issue of the Liger considering that its obvious that my subsequent explanation covers that issue. Hence it is obvious that my quotation shown below already explains why it is possible for Lions and Tigers to mate and create another animal under a controlled environment or use of biological manipulation through the use of the intelligence of man.

- Lions and Tigers are basically animals of the same[b] KIND [/b]i.e. they are CAT KIND OR CAT FAMILY.

-  LIGER is still basically an animal of the same KIND i.e. CAT KIND OR CAT FAMILY.

- Horses and Zebra and Donkeys are also basically animals of the same kind e.g. HORSE FAMILY thus any animal obtain via their mixture would still be a member of the HORSE KIND or HORSE FAMILY

So please note that under natural conditions, all animals always reproduce according to their kind, it is only via the use of human intelligence that grotesque animals like Monkey-Lion, Human-Tiger, Monkey-Dragon , Crouching-Tiger   could either be obtained or imagined.

4. Hence your response actually went ahead to provide more evidence to my former statement quoted below. Thus you have actually without knowing it gone ahead to support creation against evolution  ( men it is wonderful to disuss issues without insults).

No2Atheism:
First example

Since records and civilisations began every kind of animal has always being reproducing after its kind.

Bible verse
------------------
Genesis 1: 24 And Elohim said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.  

Genesis 1: 25 And Elohim made the[b] beast of the earth after his kind[/b], and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and Elohim saw that it was good.


Evidence
-------------------
Dog produces Dog
Cow produces Cow
Crocodile produces Crocodile
Monkey produces Monkey

All attempts to change this evidence of how the bible is true in terms of creation of kinds of animals has only been possible via the use of human intelligence. The use of human intelligence to produce a mixture of two animals does not support evolution, infact it contradicts evolution, simply because the foundation of evolution requires there to be no intelligence directing or controlling the natural process.

Have a good day @Tudor, nice discussing with you at least KAG now has another reasonable allie who does not go around hauling insults when reasonable discussions are required.

[quote author=Tùdor link=topic=279631.msg3985335#msg3985335 date=1244273045]No2atheism
the fact our hypotheis is wrong doesn't make yours right.
kindly list the scientific evidences you claim support your faith.[/quote]First example

Since records and civilisations began every kind of animal has always being reproducing after its kind.

Bible verse
------------------
Genesis 1: 24 And Elohim said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.  

Genesis 1: 25 And Elohim made the[b] beast of the earth after his kind[/b], and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and Elohim saw that it was good.


Evidence
-------------------
Dog produces Dog
Cow produces Cow
Crocodile produces Crocodile
Monkey produces Monkey

All attempts to change this evidence of how the bible is true in terms of creation of kinds of animals has only been possible via the use of human intelligence. The use of human intelligence to produce a mixture of two animals does not support evolution, infact it contradicts evolution, simply because the foundation of evolution requires there to be no intelligence directing or controlling the natural process.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second Example:

Bible verse:
------------------------
Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.


Evidence:
----------------------
It was after invention of ancient astrology, modern telescopes, stargazing, spacecrafts, algebra, mathematics and other things that man was actually able to understand that the Bible was actually talking about the fact that the Earth was hanging on nothing in Space



-------------------------------------------------------------

@pilgrim.1 can you please take over, i sincerely do not have the desire for this any longer. I want to go and do something else.

[quote author=Tùdor link=topic=279631.msg3985226#msg3985226 date=1244268768]No2Atheism, o.k let me confess i have no answers to your questions above. It's only a matter of time before science comes up with better answers,remember not long ago we thought diseases were caused by evil spirits,rainbows were god's covenant and even thunder was the voice of god not until it was shown to be caused by +ve and -ve charges.
I agree,i don't have all the answers as to the origins of our world. However since you're SURE god created all,kindly answer these;
Who created god,how did he start?
Where was god before he created the heavens and the earth?

How did god create the billions of planets and galaxies?
Why did he choose earth amongst the zillions to create life?
. . . .more questions to follow if you satisfactorily answer these.[/quote]Before I proceed, i always like to start from the very foundation of issues. Now the foundation of issues is that:

Option 1: Everything was created out of nothing by a Creator.

                                    OR

Option 2: Nothing was created, but instead everything evolved from out of nothing or something via Evolution.



Now back to your response.

1. Thank you for openly admitting something.

2. Most of the questions i asked earlier (here) are not time dependent and infact on the contrary they are time-critical questions (because people whose life and eternity depend on such answers don't have eternity to wait for the answers), hence it is not a matter of whether there would be more science in the future to answer such questions. The answer to such questions are already available for those that are scientifically inclined. The problem with evolution and evolutionists however is that the scientific answers provided by science to such questions do not support evolution, hence evolutionists keep hoping and looking to the future for answers that would support them, hence the reason why you claim that science would have answers in the future.

- What if science does not have answers in the future
- Does that not leave you in a win-lose scenario, instead of a win-win scenario
- If you know you do not have answers right now, why then do you make statements that make people wrongly assume that you do.


3. Does it not disturb you that you yourself claim not to know the answers, yet you are basing your worldview and decisions about the bible on answers that you yourself claim not to know (although real science already provide answers that you do not like sha).


4. Please note that i myself do not claim to know everything, however my own assurances comes from the conviction that i have come to have that came about:

 - a. First by faith.
 - b. Then by the confirmation of my faith by evidence obtained from science in via submissions by both evolutionary and creationists scientists.

Thus you can easily say that i have come around to completely trust the Bible. I completely trust the Bible and believe every word said in the bible, simply because personal experience, my own scientific background in engineering and science makes it easy for me to see some physical evidence of certain things that the bible is talking about.

Yes the English Bible has a few translation problems, nevertheless it does not bother me, because i know that the original manuscripts were not written in english and that the english translators did not have word processors to crosscheck each and every translations that they might have made from the original languages to english, latin, greek or whatever other languages it was translated to in our present time and age. Crosschecking of the original manuscripts in comparison to the english translations continually helps us to spot and correct any errors in our english translation of the bible.



5. Now to answer your questions:

Who created god - Nobody created Him (He Himself said so through the Bible and I believe Him as He as always been right all along)

How did he start? - He started creating everything at the beginning of the time of this our physical world just like He said in the Bible (Genesis 1 and 2)

Where was god before he created the heavens and the earth? - I do not know (the Bible does not tell me this, and i am not one to speculate)

How did god create the billions of planets and galaxies? - He spoke them into existence, by the power of His Word alone (Gen 1, Gen 2, John 1)

Why did he choose earth amongst the zillions to create life? - I do not know (all I know is that He decided to create Man in His own Image on Earth)




6. Finally please note that a scientific mind would immediately raise a red flag and an alarm when it considers that:

Atheists claim that there is no Creator, yet cannot prove it and at the same time try to explain without prove how they think everything began. Despite that time and time again, real practical science shows that most if not all of evolutionary hypothesis and statements are simply not true and possible.

Bible believers are faith based people that ultimately see physical and scientific evidences that justify their faith, hence since they openly claim to be faith based, then it means they are under no obligation to scientifically prove their point of view despite that science still invariably provides solicited and unsolicited evidences that justify their faith.

Atheist are also faith based people (though they refuse to accept they are faith based) who ultimately cannot find a single evidence that justify their faith , and yet still go around claiming there is no Creator, despite that they cannot prove it to be so from a scientific point of view even as they love to claim that their reasoning and logic is based on science, which it is clearly not.


7. The more i dig deeper into the world of evolution and science the more i realise that it is virtually impossible for evolution to be true.


8. As a science oriented individual, a Physics enthusiast and a PhD student in Engineering, I would rather prefer to believe and trust only science that can be proved now (which does not support evolution) rather than assume that there would be another science in the future that would support evolution. It is the most logical and faith based decision that a sound mind can make under the circumstance.

Kobojunkie:
Roflmao!!!! Roflmao!!!! Roflmao!!!!
You came on this, and posted the question below I responded telling you that the messiah frequented the temple, so why can’t pastors, and you somehow think I am the one bringing salvation or works of righteousness into this?

Roflmao!!!! Roflmao!!!! Roflmao!!!!
Apparently, not the whole bible since the same Bible tells you that the messiah frequented the temple. Roflmao!!!
Oh boy!!

1. It guess it is fun to scorn, so enjoy it while u can.


2. This topic is not talking about issues of temple or issues of no temple. I never mentioned the issue of temple and nevertheless i would do my best to explain it to you to let you see how that does not relate in anyway with the issue of taxation that this thread is trying to tackle.


3. I am a little bit disappointed that your comments smell like a typical i must win attitude of some people seeking to get their point across by force.


4. The issue of going or not going to the Temple has everything to do with salvation (read on to find out why). However the issue of taxation has absolutely nothing to do with salvation. Hence i don't understand why u keep trying to link the two together on this thread.


5. The temple represented a place of worship and place to seek redemption from sin before the birth, death and ressurection of the Messiah. Hence the temple represented issues that dealt with salvation of a person. The Messiah by His presence had to fufill the all the works of rightenous/prophecies/preconditions/activities that the ordinary man could not, so that every believer who gets bailed out by his blood does not have to fufill the same works of rightenous/prophecies/preconditions/activities. Part of these works of rightenous/prophecies/preconditions/activities that the Messiah fufilled is the issue of the going to the Temple as a man born into the house of Isreal governed by the Laws of Moses.

  Hence the reason why the Messiah could visit a temple and pastors/believers no longer had to visit a temple, was because the Messiah had already fufilled all the works of rightenous/prophecies/preconditions/activities for us, hence why our salvation is only by Grace through Faith in the Messiah and not by whether or not we also try to fufill the same works of rightenous/prophecies/preconditions/activities that the Messiah has already fuffilled.

 Therefore the issue of whether or not pastors or people should go to the temple has been eradicated by the death and resurrection of the Messiah based on the simple fact that his life and death resulted in the tearing down of the veil from the temple, such that there was no longer any need for any believer to go through an intermediary via the temple before they communicated with the Creator.
 
Instead because of the Messiah, all believers could now worship the Creator in spirit and in truth directly at anytime of the day and anywhere in the whole universe. (that my friend is why pastors do not need to go to the temple like the Messiah did).
Well u might be wondering that why then do people claim or bother to go to church, the is simple. The issue of going to church or fellowship has nothing to do with the initial case of the Messiah going to the temple. Instead the issue of going to church/fellowship comes up in relation to the bible verse that says: "Iron sharpeneth Iron" (Prov 27:17). This is even made more obvious by the bible verse that says that all believers (pastors, bishops, deacons etc included) should gather together and fellowship together with one another (anywhere and not a particular temple or particular church building)in other to achieve the "iron sharpeneth iron principle" (Hebrews 10:25).


RNKJV
Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.



RNKJV
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.




5. The issue of the taxation has nothing to do with the Temple that you keep trying to link it with (why u are trying to link it with the temple is really beyond me, cus i don't understand whether u are here to score a cheap point or you are here to engage in a productive and meaningful discussion).


6. Hence the like i have said earlier the Messiah showed by His own action, the kind of example that believers as supposed to follow when dealing with issues of taxation in a real life scenario (which at its fundamentals, has nothing to do with their salvation).

  Please check my earlier posts here and here to find out what the Messiah did when faced with an issue of taxation under a real life scenario.


7. I would no longer be responding to your own personal posts on this topic, because i sincerely do not like repeating myself or wasting my time on issues that inevitably contribute nothing to the topic at hand.


Thank you.

Kobojunkie:
You sure say you be real descendant? Eyo? Adamu-Orisha? I mean you don't really have to be a genius to know it is. COME ON dude!!

If you are saying tax them all, are you also saying all NGO's and other non-profits that sell books, CD's and DVD's ought to be taxed?

@No2Atheism, so, never mind that the messiah himself went religiously to the temple, pastor's ought not to?

1. This is not about the issue of salvation or works of righteousness, so please save that kinda of response for another time.

2. My response is based on the bible not based on what others are doing.

3. The Messiah did not tell us to personally go and report ourselves to the tax authority that we want to pay tax by force. Nope He did not do that. Nevertheless he showed us an example in which he showed us that we should still go ahead to pay the tax even when it is obvious to everyone that the tax collector was trying to cheat us. The battle is not ours to fight, hence things need to be seen from the spiritual perspective and not always from the perspective of court of law.

4. To understand what the Messiah did in the case of the tax collector, you need to really understand what he means when he says: If someone tries to slap you on one cheek then turn the other to him for him to slap also.


Hence the Messiah was showing us an example to follow when tax collectors tried to cheat us or intimidate us by demanding a tax which though it is lawful, yet is immoral and unbiblical. Yes it is immoral and unbiblical for taxes to be demanded from churches, however it is also Christ like for those churches to go ahead and pay those taxes. Based on the simple fact that that which "lawfully belongs" to Ceasare should be given unto Ceasare and that which lawfully belongs to the Creator should be given unto him.

The work of the Gospel is not dependent on how rich a church is, for the simple reason that the Creator Himself would provide all that is need to spread the gospel, He has been doing so and would continue to do so. The issue here is that the love of money is pushing some pastors to contradict the Messiah himself in this case of taxes or no taxes.

It is simple to see from the bible that the Messiah knew it was lawfully to give taxes because the government of that time made it a law to give taxes wen demanded. Hence the reason why the Messiah had no qualms given the tax collectors their tax, despite that he had the power not to do so on moral grounds.

Hence that churches decide to take the state government to court is the height of unbiblical practise. The job of churches is not in the church their job in terms of fighting the tax is in the place of prayer. When they pray and the Creator determines that the should not pay taxes, then obviously the Creator himself would force the government to change the law without needing the churches to lobby for a change in law.

What is going on here by going to court only shows that some of these churches have decided to take control and dictate the outcome of their own destiny instead of depending on the provider and giver Himself.

acidrop:
EXACTLY

but but but but but u just

FL Gators:
Dnt blame me, blame my bro.
He said your application was incomplete

is that so, .

Dayo ori e ,----- it is me and you. You want to take my one and only bitty away from me abi, u go see.

FL Gators:
1. She retain my dignity by not fighting for any man (in this case, poster was humiliated)

2. She gained experience

3. She doesn't have to go through the worries of the possibilities of her bf (now ex) cheating on her with "Rose" anymore.

4. Single life ain't that bad. And who knows, she might actually meet a better man.

Are u sure, so u have decided to dump me, na wa so u just used me to warm up for the main course.

yes micheal jackson might have skin disease but it does not mean that his sperm also has skin disease. Abeg those children are not his children.

Infact i am really beginning to suspect maybe it is true that He hates being black.

Otherwise why would he choose to get sperm from a white man (assuming his own sperm were already dead), does he not realise that he would no longer have an history once he is dead, as a result of the simple fact that blood is ticker than water. Hence sooner or later his so called "children" would want to know who their real fathers and mothers are.


At least Jermaine tried in that it looks like (u can never know wow) he used his own sperm to father his "black" children.

Why does a Pastor even need to go to court considering that even the Messiah himself decided to pay tax.

1. Notice that the Messiah did not say taxation was right.

2. Instead the Messiah showed us and example of how to react when people are trying to take advantage of us using taxation as a weapon.

That Pastors choose to go to Court shows the height of hypocrisy and where most of their priorities lie.

3. Paul was a full time Pastor who still derived income from working (chk ur scriptures), hence why must someone claim to be a full-time pastor and only base his/her source of income on church money.

4. The Creator Himself would punish those that choose to discriminate against Bible believers by trying to tax their leaders, hence a true bible believer ought to know that there really is no big deal when taxation is imposed on the churches.

It was imposed on the Messiah Himself and he did not take anyone to court, so why must some Pastors choose to do something contrary to what the Messiah himself choose to do.

No wahala sha at least it makes it easier to know who is for the work and who is for the money.

Off course Nigeria is a case study.

1. Northerners have no resources to boast off yet seem to have the richest people in the country amongst them obviously through stealing and corruption.

2. Northerners benefit the most in terms of money laundeering and bunkering via police and military stooges.

3. Niger Delta people have almost nothing to show for the riches found on their land while the oil corporations get fatter and richer on their land.

4. Its a good time to be a Ghanian, they are cleaner, more responsible and more serious than us.

Hausa-Fulani elites are obviously stealing nigeria blind.