₦airaland Forum

GreenFarmsNG:
Allow me help. We call it Conversion Experience. Every Pastoral person or Minister of position must have a conversion experience. Biblical example. Paul and the Damascus experience.


As rightly put as you said earlier, every Christian can have a confessional experience but a minister must have a conversional experience. Otherwise he or she is righteous from the womb and this posture nullifies scripture. It's an unwritten letter of the spirit, hence not too clear in the word.


Similar/Other experiences throughout scripture exists


1. Gideon had his in His call

2. Jesus converted Peter through the miraculous harvest of Fishes

3. Jesus did same with Philip




There has to be an intervention, interruption, disruption and total change of treaded path, which fulfills scripture that all had fallen short and each own turns his/her own way and then Grace steps in, and truncate the furnace of the wrong path travelled upon and steers the person in a new direction. Hence Paul said, that it pleased God who had foreknowledge and called him from the womb, that at the right time would cause a Revelation of Him through his life...


THERE ISN'T AUTOMATIC FLIGHT AS WITNESSED TODAY IN THE KINGDOM THAT IS OF GOD. FROM ORDINARY PERSON STRAIGHT TO MIRACLE PERFORMING G.O.NOPE.ON THE KINGDOM, PROCESS IS SOMETHING GOD DOESN'T DO AWAY WITH, AND FOR A MINISTER, A CONVERSION PROCESS THOUGH MANY TIMES EMBARRASSING IS A MUST.


Allow me find small trouble. People knew TB Joshua as a spiritualist in the 80s and all of a sudden transforms into a miracle performer with no conversion experience. Haba.

Thanks for your insightful mention.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ never held to any esteem this so-called testimony of Salvation you continue to go on and on about. What bothers me even more is that you are all too willing to ignore the standard Jesus Christ Himself set for us as far as judging whether a one belongs to Him or not - John 15 vs 20- 21 & Matthew 7 vs 15 - 20

Your churches and their pastoral ministries have nothing to with Jesus Christ, and the New Covenant Law of the Kingdom of God which He is. They are instead built on the doctrines and traditions of men, that which Jesus Christ Himself declared were lies that instead pull people away from God and the Truth of God - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14.

Your Pastors also have no place in the teachings of Jesus Christ- John 10 vs 7 - 16 - and were not called by God, who disavowed them in Ezekiel 34 vs 9 -16. God declared early in Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34, that He alone would be Teacher to all those who are of His New Covenant, a message repeated by Jesus Christ in John 6 vs 43 - 45.

Jesus Christ's Church, which He built with His own hands, refers to those who belong to His Kingdom - that is the Church that belongs to the Living God, a Church not built by men neither of man made structures.

So, if in God's Church, God( through Jesus Christ and the Spirit of God) alone is
* Teacher - Matthew 23 vs 8
* Shepherd - John 10 vs 1 - 16
* Master/ Lord/ Mentor - Mathew 23 vs 10
* Guide - John 16 vs 13
* Leader/Authority - Matthew 20 vs 24 - 28
* Father - Matthew 23 vs 9

...what exactly are your Pastors called to do in the Kingdom of God?

Will you take a pause for a while and listen to all these babblings of yours? How can you boldly state in the open space of a renown social media platform that salvation testimony isn't something Jesus set for those who'll be in the Kingdom? What profanity!!!

If you want to know what pastors are called to do, read Ephesians chapter 4. Your interpretation of scriptures is very insipid

You mean someone wouldn't be saved, and yet, he'll be rightly adjudged to be a child of God? What sort of polluted doctrine are you tinkering with?

Kobojunkie:
1. Judas walked with Jesus Christ Himself for a period of just over if not about 3 years ; he too believed in Jesus Christ. And if he are to follow the story, he too had a salvation story to tell - He was among those who went around baptizing, healing the sick, casting out demons in the name of Jesus Christ and raising the dead even. If Judas, the son of Perdition had even these stories to tell, of what true worth are your salvation stories where God and the things of God are concerned?

2. As to what I stated of the Kingdom of God, let me re-state : - There are two gates into the Kingdom of God - the Narrow gate which leads to Heaven and the Broad gate which leads to Hell - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 - implying that even those who are headed for Hell are right there inside of the Kingdom of God. This phenomenon is somewhat confirmed by the parable of the wheat and tares as told by Jesus Christ where the good seeds and evils seeds are left go coexist until the time of Harvest - Matthew 13 vs 24 - 43.

In John 3 vs 5, we learn that all those who enter into the Kingdom of God have to be born of water and or Spirit, but what it doesn't say is that the Spirit in question is of God. In the same John 3 vs 8, Jesus Christ hints at the unpredictability of that which is born of Spirit.

Salvation which is a in fact a saving from the condemnation of sin(Death) is explained by Jesus Christ - John 3 vs 16 - 18 - as a believing of one in Him in order that one is redeemed from Death by perishing in the grave and instead gifted with eternal life , this ofcourse,according to John 6 vs 47- 56, one has to eat the body and drink the blood of Jesus Christ to receive eternal life.

Putting all this together, we she that not all those who have Salvation story to tell are of God , since a majority of them will enter the Kingdom through the Broad gate which leads to Hell, so it is faulty thinking to assume that having a salvatin story to tell is a good way to judge a person's stance with God.

We also have the example of Judas iscariot as the biggest reason never to judge by your so- called Salvation stories. Judas, the one called the son of perdition, walked with Jesus Christ for what amounts to just over 3 years, if not more. Judas went around with the group as they baptized , healed the sick, raised the dead, cast out demons and devils in the name of Jesus Christ. Judas was seen as one of the group. In fact the other disciples were likely convinced that he, Judas, was one of the simply because he was in their midst. But in the end it was revealed that though Judas believed, He did not belong to Jesus Christ, and this was because of disobedience.

Overall, it is foolisb to judge a one by His salvation story as not all those who are "saved" are good .I.e. submit to and obey the commandments & teachings of Jesus Christ /bear good fruits. It is instead best to stick to the standard set by Jesus Christ Himself who knows the Truth and by whom we are set free from sin.

3. Can you please point out the contradiction you claim. I mean I don't recall ever stating that one should not obey the Law of God. God is God of Laws and Jesus Christ is His New Covenant agreement delivered to man as Law in the Kingdom of God and we know that the Law is meant for our obedience, this the only way to obtaining that which God has promised.

4. As for judging by fruits of obedience being hidden,
well this is not according to Jesus Christ who, in Matthew 5 vs 14-16, commanded that we let the Light -the light in question being Jesus Christ Himself - shine in us. He went as far as to say that one does not lights candle and hide it underneath a bed, and for good reason.

If the Spirit of God is inside of one working the good thing of God - obedience of the commandments and teachings of God according to Ezekiel 36 vs 27 - how can that one not recognize the very same Spirit of God working inside of another to doing the very same thing? Jesus Christ already condemned our judging others by any standard other than God's own Standard, the Law - Matthew 7 vs 1 -5 - leaving us to recognizing others through just the one filter given up by God. Will those working the Words of God(Spirit) not then easily perceive others working the same Words of God(Spirit)?

Let me tell you, a testimony of salvation is first and foremost a necessary prerequisite in determining a child of God. After the person gets saved, what he does with his salvation is between him and God.

Your arguments seem to suggest that since Judas Iscariot missed it in spite of the fact that he was saved, then the church should start admitting anyone into the pastoral ministry, whether they are saved or not. This position is clearly heretic. That means anyone can become a pastor in any guise whatsoever. The Apostles had no such tradition, neither the churches of the living God.

Kobojunkie:
I am not in any way affiliated with any of your Mogs and I don't know what mean by turning the bible upside down, so try to speak plainly and in detail so I better understand your point, if at all.

1. Jesus Christ declared "...by their fruits you shall know them" - Matthew 7 vs 15 -20 -, them being those who belong to Him from those who do not(.I.e. the sinners, false teachers and prophets). The same Jesus Christ also said, " Those who love me are those who know my comandments/rules and obey them" - John 14 vs 20 -21.

2. Jesus Christ did not teach you of "fruits of the Spirit",nor did He teach you that the fruits He spoke of where the "fruits of the Spirit" as mentioned by Paul in his letters.

No, what Jesus Christ told you is this....a good tree produces good fruits and a bad tree produces bad fruits. And we know that those who are of Him(good) are those who submit to and obey His teachings & commandments. This then making it safe to insist that good fruits are fruits of obedience where as bad fruits are fruits of disobedience, this of the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Truth of God.

3. Anyone who is "good" is of God and "good" here not according to the world's idea but measured by the standard set by God Himself in His Law, Jesus Christ. God is Good and no one who belongs to God, even through His New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, would violate any of His comandments/rules that is the measure of goodness by God's standard. Those good submit to and obey God's commandments - Ezekiel 36 vs 27, - that is what His very Spirit is to help us continue to carefully achieve.

Satan may disguise himself as an angel of light but one thing he will never do is good in obedience to God's commandments, as that would be in direct contradiction of his very core code. Satan can feign the "fruits of the Spirit" as taught by Paul, but he can never bow in submission to and obedience of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

4. John suggests that you try every Spirit but was John speaking of trying Spirits outside of your person or the spirits inside of you as a person?

5. There are two gates into the Kingdom of God - the Narrow gate which leads to Heaven and the Broad gate which leads to Hell - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 - implying that even those who are headed for Hell are right there in the Kingdom of God, and this is somewhat confirmed by the parable of the wheat and tares as told by Jesus Christ. And according to John 3 vs 5, all those who enter into the Kingdom of God have to be "born of Spirit", but what it doesn't say is that the Spirit in question is of God.

So, it is unwise to judge a one by His salvation story as not all those who are "saved" are good .I.e. submit to and obey the commandments & teachings of Jesus Christ .I.e. bear good fruits.

You need to start reading the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Some of your points up there are valid while some, especially the concluding parts are clearly heretic.

Being saved is the first thing that makes you a Christian. Now, you say we shouldn't judge anyone by his testimony of salvation? That's what I care about. After that, it's only Christ who knows those who are obeying Him. Except the disobedience is done openly, there's no way you can determine a person's walk with God.

When Paul attempted to join the apostles after his salvation experience, they rejected him. It took Barnabas to explain to them that he was saved before they could even listen to him. And before he could be accepted as a minister, he had to share his salvation experience as well as how he received his çall from God. According to Paul's Account in Ephesians 1, it was after that, that they now have him "the free hand of fellowship."

You seem to misunderstand that the two phrases 'kingdom of God' and 'Kingdom of Heaven' mean different things. You've muddled everything up there.

You also contradicted yourself, after saying it doesn't matter if the person obeys Christ or not. Now, you're saying only those who obey Christ are good.

My advice to you is to get down to the scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If possible, get a spirit filled mentor who would explain things to you when your understanding fails.

You shouldn't be contributing to topics like these, because most of your assertions are completely over the bar.

Kobojunkie:
I am not in any way affiliated with any of your Mogs and I don't know what mean by turning the bible upside down, so try to speak plainly and in detail so I better understand your point, if at all.

1. Jesus Christ declared "...by their fruits you shall know them" - Matthew 7 vs 15 -20 -, them being those who belong to Him from those who do not(.I.e. the sinners, false teachers and prophets). The same Jesus Christ also said, " Those who love me are those who know my comandments/rules and obey them" - John 14 vs 20 -21.

2. Jesus Christ did not teach you of "fruits of the Spirit",nor did He teach you that the fruits He spoke of where the "fruits of the Spirit" as mentioned by Paul in his letters.

No, what Jesus Christ told you is this....a good tree produces good fruits and a bad tree produces bad fruits. And we know that those who are of Him(good) are those who submit to and obey His teachings & commandments. This then making it safe to insist that good fruits are fruits of obedience where as bad fruits are fruits of disobedience, this of the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Truth of God.

3. Anyone who is "good" is of God and "good" here not according to the world's idea but measured by the standard set by God Himself in His Law, Jesus Christ. God is Good and no one who belongs to God, even through His New Covenant Law, Jesus Christ, would violate any of His comandments/rules that is the measure of goodness by God's standard. Those good submit to and obey God's commandments - Ezekiel 36 vs 27, - that is what His very Spirit is to help us continue to carefully achieve.

Satan may disguise himself as an angel of light but one thing he will never do is good in obedience to God's commandments, as that would be in direct contradiction of his very core code. Satan can feign the "fruits of the Spirit" as taught by Paul, but he can never bow in submission to and obedience of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

4. John suggests that you try every Spirit but was John speaking of trying Spirits outside of your person or the spirits inside of you as a person?

5. There are two gates into the Kingdom of God - the Narrow gate which leads to Heaven and the Broad gate which leads to Hell - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 - implying that even those who are headed for Hell are right there in the Kingdom of God, and this is somewhat confirmed by the parable of the wheat and tares as told by Jesus Christ. And according to John 3 vs 5, all those who enter into the Kingdom of God have to be "born of Spirit", but what it doesn't say is that the Spirit in question is of God.

So, it is unwise to judge a one by His salvation story as not all those who are "saved" are good .I.e. submit to and obey the commandments & teachings of Jesus Christ .I.e. bear good fruits.

You need to start reading the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Some of your points up there are valid while some, especially the concluding parts are clearly heretic.

Being saved is the first thing that makes you a Christian. Now, you say we shouldn't judge anyone by his testimony of salvation? That's what I care about. After that, it's only Christ who knows those who are obeying Him. Except the disobedience is done openly, there's no way you can determine a person's walk with God.

When Paul attempted to join the apostles after his salvation experience, they rejected him. It took Barnabas to explain to them that he was saved before they could even listen to him. And before he could be accepted as a minister, he had to share his salvation experience as well as how he received his çall from God. According to Paul's Account in Ephesians 1, it was after that, that they now have him "the free hand of fellowship."

You seem to misunderstand that the two phrases 'kingdom of God' and 'Kingdom of Heaven' mean different things. You've muddled everything up there.

My advice to you is to get down to the scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If possible, get a spirit filled mentor who would explain things to you when your understanding fails.

You shouldn't be contributing to topics like these, because most of your assertions are completely over the bar.

Kobojunkie:
And according to Jesus Christ, the only criteria by which a one who belongs to Jesus Christ is to be judged is by his/her fruits .i.e. whether or not such a one lives in obedience of the commandments of Jesus Christ, or not. God's own law is the standard by which we are to judge and in that case it becomes God and not man doing the judging.

For those in the Kingdom of God, It shouldn't matter
* whether one was saved on a hill or as a child
* how long a one has been saved
* where one was water baptized
* if one has story to tell of how he/she was born or Spirit
* what church one attends or attended

All these questions are meaningless where the Kingdom of God is concerned, except to those seeking Membership is groups like CAN where men judge themselves on standards that are not of God Himself, and bear in mind that even this in direct violation of God's command that we judge not(according to standard of men) but only by God's.

Is this what TB Joshua told you? I doubt if you're a Christian. No Christian would dare turn the Bible upside down as you have just done.

"Christ, the only criteria by which a one who belongs to Jesus Christ is to be judged is by his/her fruits .i.e. whether or not such a one lives in obedience of the commandments of Jesus Christ, or not. "

The bolded above exposes your heresy.

In John 8:31, Jesus said "If ye obey my commandments, then are ye my disciples indeed."

There's no one who can bear the fruits of the Spirit without the spirit of God dwelling in him. The Spirit bears the fruits, and therefore, by the fruits shall they be known. That's why the scriptures say:

If anyone has not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9.

You seem to be of the opinion that anyone who does good is of God. But the scriptures say "try every spirit, for Satan himself is disguised as an angel of light."

Read Revelation chapter 2 to 3, and observe the letter to the Churches. See the criterion Christ used to determine the Churches that are his. These same criterion apply to every believer.

if one has story to tell of how he/she was born or Spirit

You mean from the bolded above that someone would not be born of the Spirit, and he in his canal state, could be reckoned to be a child of God?

But Jesus said, "except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." John 3:5.

I don't have the time right now to point all the error in your assertions above with scriptures. But, I must let you know that no one without a salvation experience can be truly adjudged to be a child of God. And if TB Joshua was saved, he certainly would share his salvation experience with the world. Just as he shared about his family.

Kobojunkie:
Can we please not now pretend that CANs membership rules and motives are those given by Jesus Christ to all who will belong to His Kingdom.

The path leading to membership in Christ's body are clearly spelt out in Scripture. CAN isn't the one to give us that.

Digesting

falseprophet:
No other side man, this I have seen!

You're indeed a false prophet!

bizzibodi:
All those rules man-made holy spirit uses people as he wishes.
It is your kind that decieve alot of people from making heaven.
It is your kind that jesus said they strain out a fly but swallow a camel.
Do holy spirit baptism required a certificate from man?
It is your kind that turns the work of Jesus Christ into a personal business.
It is your kind Jesus will denied on the last day.
Your kind mix occultism with Christianity.
So apostle Peter that heal people with his shadow is fake?
What is your business with the mode he received the holy spirit?are you are regulator in Christiandom?
You have no spark of d holy spirit in you.
You people just causes confusion with proliferation of churches every claiming holy spirit led.
Who are you?
Have you told us how you got saved?
How did you received the holy spirit?
What is your testimony?
Who are you? which church did you attend?
How did you got saved?
Where were you baptised?
How did you get called?
Who ordained you a minister?
How did you become a Christian?
Have you dabble into occultism before?
Tell us your background.
Do not dodge this questions.

So, you became a Christian without a salvation experience? You were never baptised in water? You attend no church? You call yourself a Christian? You call all those pathways to a Christian Life a deception and occultism? You're fake! Or perhaps, you're deluded.

To ask how someone got saved, got baptised, got empowered from above or ask about his Christian family (the church he formerly attended) is deception to you. Those questions mean a log is in my eye? TB Joshua's remote control stunt is equated with Peter's shadow by you? What sort of Christianity do you practice? You even call biblical foundations 'man-made'. Rather than pray the prayer I advised you to pray or at least clarify the things you know about TB Joshua, you resorted to name calling. What have I done to the world that requires you asking me such questions? If you want to know me and hear my own testimony, I share it every now and then wherever I preach the gospel. I say TB Joshua never shared his. And, that's if he had any. Every believer rejoices at answering those questions above because they're exhilarating moments in the Christian's journey. I doubt if I'm talking with a Christian. No child of God would dare call him an an occult who asks such questions as I asked. The most fundamental things of the Christian faith. The general experience of every believer in Christ Jesus.

The New testament saints have a new birth experience. An empowerment experience. A spiritual nurturing experience. Even Paul the Apostle could relate. Was TB Joshua a Christian? I ask again. Where is his new birth experience? Tell me what he said about his endowment with power. Tell me what he told you about his Christian family. I desire to know! If you can't and still go on to defend falsehood, you're an enemy of the Kingdom, and not a true soldier of Christ.

bizzibodi:
Only U is mature!only you is righteous others are sinners.according to your standard.
The holy spirit gives different to individuals the fact that you don't have a gift for healing or prophecies should make you jealous.
If your father a Muslim got converted when no one preach to him & died as an evangelist that one's is a testimony & that applies to TB too.
In all this big churches can an usher just mount d pulpit,conduct service,preach,take over d church administration from d G.O claiming he is been lead by d holy spirit.will you allow that in your church?even among the 12 apostles Peter is d head others have their own complimentary roles.holy spirit creates order not disorder.
Lastly I am not even a member of d synagogue.i don't just join d bandwagon b/c it is said by a highly revered G.O then it is gospel because he is infallible.i examine every statement for d truth.

I can see that you don't even understand my points. Your argument is clearly offpoint.

1.; I'm not claiming any righteousness. I'm asking you a few questions:

✓ How did TB Joshua get saved? If he never talked about it, chances are that he wasn't. You generalise testimony. There's a testimony of salvation unique to every Christian. Before even asking for that of TB Joshua, do you have yours? You must not depart this world without one.

2. Does the Holy Spirit work in his church? I mean working without anybody's intervention. The Lord just doing His things in His church. You seem never to grasp this point.

3. Where was he baptised in water?

4. How did he receive the Holy Spirit baptism?

5. What church was he attending before starting synagogue?

If we have raised questions bothering on physical things and yet you fail to understand; how will you understand spiritual things?

Whenever he did charity works, he televises it for the world to see. Do you know why? It's against the Christian injunction on giving. Do you know why he sells anointing oil? It's never done. Do you see how he used his hand to remote-control people before falling them to the ground? The Holy Spirit never does that. The only reason why people fall under the anointing of the Holy Spirit is that, their bodies can not contain the weight of power that's coming upon them. Otherwise, the Holy Spirit wants to touch everyone while he remains standing and conscious. TB Joshua deliberately uses his hands to whirl people around remotely. Then, sweeps the hand across the floor, resulting in the person's fall. That's not the Holy Spirit.

This is my advice for you. If you consider TB Joshua to be such a man of God that served the true master- The Lord Jesus. Then, start praying that God should make your life like that of TB Joshua. Your end like his end. And whatsoever be the fate of him in the afterlife should be your fate. Pray this prayer in your mention to me. Otherwise, I'll consider you an hypocrite.

GreenFarmsNG:
Now this is true Spiritual Maturity. These days we see so many men who want nothing besides their will. The church can't sing sings that the whole congregation knows the HolySpirit is asking to be sung. Why? Daddy doesn't want anything outside Him.

I. Can't wait for Father to cleanse the vineyard. Funny thing is congregants and immature Christians barely understand such demands of the spirit of God.


The moment I feel or see any minister wants it all His way or no way else, I break my bond of fellowship with such individual and move.


Have you considered that nothing happens in that synagogue independence of TB Joshua or his wise men?

There's never a move of the Holy Spirit in his congregation except by his own personal actions.

God bless you sir.

bizzibodi:
All the points you raised is irrelevant a person can receive salvation without anyone preaching to him..he can have personal encounter with God.paul has a personal encounter with Jesus.
A person in distress,point of death can call on God for healing if healed can make a personal decision to dedicates his life to Christ.
It is the Jesus that gives salvation not man.
Did he has testimony?everyone has testimony even been alife everyday is a testimony.....are you expecting his testimony be like that of apostle Paul?
I have watch SCOAN programs & was baffled to see another man performing deliverances..so that your assertion that nothing happens without him is false & hearsay.
To work with God you don't need the tutorage of any church or pastor since holy spirit is the greatest teacher,he will lead you into all truth.
That someone from a different religion cannot get converted and start a church is absurd.pastor Tunde Bakare,Johnson Suleiman & host of other are formally of Islamic faith.
Tb Josh said he has been in d scripture union for long.what more do you want.
Leave judgement for God!Do you want to usurp the authority of God Almighty?as you judge same measure await.
Why open different moniker and be commenting on youself it is not a good fruit for one who claim to have d holy spirit.
Goodbye dnt mention me again!

For what reason will i open other monikers to comment on myself?

Your assertions above are deeply that of an ignorant fellow. A Christian doesn't have to be preached to before he becomes a Christian. True! My dad was a Muslim. No one preached to him but he died an Evangelist with a testimony of his miraculous salvation. Where's TB Joshua's testimony of salvation? Except you're a blind follower, those pertinent questions raised above should mean something to you.

I already said things happen in his church only true him and his Wisemen. The Holy Spirit never moved independently in his congregation. That's a big thing if you don't know. Even your attitude in responses shows that you're an immature Christian.

GreenFarmsNG:
God bless your soul. I love your spirit of understanding and discretion. Very rare in this era. Heaven bless your soul bro

Amen bro. God bless you too.

bizzibodi:
From your own perspective,outlook you have judge him to be a sinner bound to hell...even if he was a sinner according to you he died do you know his last encounter with Jesus before he died?one of the 2 thieves was granted paradise by just his few moments with Jesus.
You seen to know who is right with God as if you have d book of life before you.
Why waste negative energy on who has passed on to meet his maker?
Even God said I will show mercy on whom I please.
If you said you are not a judge of prophet TB joshua then you lied.am seeing d fruits you bears.
Idle monitoring spirit is what you are,one who knows all things.even Benny Hinn you mentioned has his own controversies
Mr perfect!

It's simple:

In his lifetime, TB Joshua never answered these succinct questions:

1. How did he get saved? Every believer has a salvation experience and testimony.

2. There's no one who walks in the supernatural without an a baptism in the Holy Spirit. What was his baptismal experience?

3. How did he receive the call of God into ministry?

4. Which church was he formally attending before he started synagogue?

Look my brother, the scriptures say "Try every Spirit'. Do you know why? 'Even Satan is digitised as an angel of light'. Do not be deceived.

Let me give you another gist. Those of us who have been opportune to taste the anointing, know how the Holy Spirit operates.

Have you considered that nothing happens in that synagogue independence of TB Joshua or his wise men?

There's never a move of the Holy Spirit in his congregation except by his own personal actions.

There are times I will mount the altar to preach, and suddenly the Holy Spirit will begin to move mightily without me doing anything! People get healed. They fall under the anointing. Deliverance takes place without me knowing anything about what is going on. See, that's the holy Spirit. He doesn't always wait for you. He takes the lead because He's the master. You're the servant. Take a clue from this. Take a clue also from the many unanswered questions that TB Joshua left behind. He had time to talk about his father and mother, but never had the time to tell the world his salvation testimony!

bizzibodi:
Jesus also said remove the log from your eye first....
Also tells you in d parable of the sower leave the harvest for him I;e leave judgement to him:he alone will separate the wheat from the chaff.did God appointed you as his judge?
With your spirit of discernment how many have you discern mentioned names.

My brother. I judge no one. I'm only saying what I know to be the truth from my own perspective.

You can decide to make TB Joshua your hero. I don't hate him. I earnestly wish he's in heaven right now.

But, I can say from his mode of operation that he was not a true servant of Christ.

Let me give you a little gist. In christiendom, Ministries don't envy themselves. Jealousy is mostly found in a few local churches. There's a tapping grace in every anointing. If you're more anointed than I, I simply move closer to you to become a partaker of your grace. I'll soon begin to flow in your type of anointing in no time. There's no room for jealousy.

The anointed men of God, and all upcoming ministers of the gospel shunned him because they know who he was. Otherwise, he would have made many sons and daughters.

Think about this:

Hubert Angel, a supposed occultic pastor who operates exactly like TB Joshua, and who even takes his own occultism to the extreme (in his church, members are made to eat grasses like oxen in the name of deliverance) has come out with a picture of himself and TB Joshua as being very close allies.

Look here. We have many ministers of the gospel outside of Nigeria who would have celebrated TB Joshua if the Nigerian pastors shunned him for jealousy sake.

When he died, Dag Heard Mills, Mensah Otabil (in nearby Ghana) Benny Hinn, Rod Pasley, TD Jakes, Bill Hermon, Joel Osteen to mention a few didn't utter a word of condolence. They're jealous of him too?

True Christians aren't happy when a sinner dies. It isn't that we're happy that TB Joshua is dead. Hell isn't a sweet place for anyone to spend eternity in. Personally, I'm saddened. I keep imagining where he could be right now. I have been hoping he had all the chance to make his ways right with God before departing. This will be the position of every man of God who has the Spirit of the living God dwelling in him.

You may not understand it now, but someday you will understand.

bizzibodi:
Wow!someone who called the name of Jesus,follow his teachings,perform miracles,feeds d lord's sheep is not a Christian,Preach Jesus commandments love your neighbours & also practice it not a Christian means Christ like
Even him calling on d name of Jesus every knees must bow,can a demon posses entity call the name JESUS?
We know them by their fruits.
An occultic man will adorn his church with occultic symbols,occultic color like red & black,candles,incest.
His dressing will have a touch of red,black,neckchains with weird symbols & rings encrusted in strange symbols on two or more fingers this we have not seen him with any.

But according to you someone who appear sanctimonious extorts members of his church,pauperise them,hypnotised them,use there resources to acquired choice properties home & abroad,buy privates jets.
.Use mopol as security.
.Make members idolised him.
.Threaten his neighbour with death not spirit of forgiveness.
. Boastful.
.Who's sermons centred on prosperity,tithings,offerings:-pastors offering,first fruits,first month offering,end of d year offering.
.Performs miracles in a specific period of the year.
Is the true man of God?More Christ-like?
Common tell something sensible!

Jesus Himself said "on that day, they would say unto me Lord, in your name we cast out devils....But I'll say unto them, I know you not, ye workers of iniquity."

This type of discussion isn't for baby Christians. They can't understand. A mature Christian has an anointing within that helps him with discernment.

Extortive pastors have their own sins. Their extortions does not in anyway justify TB Joshua. TB Joshua's showbiz ministry does not justify them either. True men of God are very few. Most of those whom the world follows are hirelings. I pray the Holy Ghost will give you Understanding.

bizzibodi:
Same judgement brother!

We're not talking about judgement here. We're talking about why a man TB Joshua was not accepted into the Christian fold.

The one who deviates from his master's teaching is still different from one who serves another master but pretends to be serving the true master.

You'll expect the deviating servant to be able to mix with other servants because it's the master that judges him. The other who pretends to be a servant when he's not would be rejected outright.

bizzibodi:
Am tempted to ask which church do you attend?
Why do your so called "true men of God" all different from another in worship,believe,doctrines?is Jesus d author of confusion?is deeper life mode of worship same as MFM,winner,christ embassy,Anglican, Catholic,apostolic, celestial church e.t.c if they are one they will all fall under one church & leadership.
Is primitive accumulation choice properties,private jets, universities by pastors Jesus footsteps
forcing members to buy uninspiring books, paraphernalias,forced donations,idolizing pastors,showcasing miracles on tv,sowing seeds,pay tithe or be cursed or embarrassed part of Jesus teaching is registering churches in pastors name?
Calling pastors daddy,master part of Christ teaching?
Is grooming only wives,son to be successor Jesus teaching?
Is man of God moving about with armed mopol & bullet proof cars are a good signs of been led by d holy spirit?
Is organising crusades & cunningly extorting cash donations,gifts from d poor part of Christ teaching?

It is one thing to deviate from Christ's teachings. It's another to use powers that are not of Christ.

For those who deviate from the teachings of Christ, there'll be judgement. But for anyone who engages a strange spirit to perform miracles in the name of Christ, that's a different thing entirely.

Romanoff:
We plenty we done defy am already.

Abi. How many Nigerians will they arrest?

bizzibodi:
They ways of prophets are different from other pastors if u had existed in biblical time in istrael if U see prophet like Elisha,Isiah, Jeremiah, Habakkuk,Nehemiah,Joel U will called them mad men some never shaved their hairs,Amos preached naked,Samson wore 7 dreadlocks,John d Baptist eat only locust & honey,some wore sack cloth & hardly bath...people called them demonic spirit .if those men are on earth today other MOGs,PFN will call Elijah,Joel,Isiah,Jeremiah,Samuel occultist,sorcerers,magicians.you will hear expression like "by their fruits ye shall know them"

Every way or mode of operation of any servant of God must fall in line with scriptures. Anything contrary to the scripture is against the rule. Some of us can discern. We know when you're operating under the influence of the Spirit of Christ, and when you're operating with a strange spirit.

The Holy Spirit doesn't remote-control people. It is wrong to televise your acts of charity (that's showbiz). Selling anointing oil is an aberration; the anointing isn't an object of merchandise.

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they're the sons of God."

Jesus already forewarned that many false prophets would arise, and shall deceive even the elect if care isn't taken.

If TB Joshua was really a servant of God, the church would accept him. He would make many spiritual sons within the Christian fold. Everyone dissociated from him because we knew he carried a strange spirit.

His ways were not in correct alignment with the true moves of the Holy Spirit.

CardiNice:
Very true.
But we can't ignore the fact that there is a divided ship between men of God in Nigeria.

There's no divided line. People shouldn't put their mouths into things they don't understand.

TB Joshua isn't regarded as a true man of God. His mode of operation isn't that of the Holy Spirit. Of particular note is his remote control staunt, televised charity acts, selling of anointing oil, and other activities that are purely unbiblical.

Anyway, God is the only Judge. But, the Bible says "By their fruits, you will know them."

temitope27:
the man is sound on paper, but when u here him speak, you will just hate him, thou I lyk him small sha

Most introverts are like that.

slivertongue:
he spoke the mind of his principal in the open. thus the sack. his boss didn't expect him to go public with their private discussion

You get sense.

He was bold to say it only because he felt it was a general northern opinion. He was confident his boss would love the post, otherwise, he wouldn't venture.

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efembaba:
So why not spill it out here if it's free bro. Exept there is a special motive

The Why was mentioned in the post.

DawahToTheWorld:
Curse of Allah upon Netanyahu Israel and their allies

Allah can only curse his slaves, he can't curse anyone else.

PNomsule:

You got me laughing alot and I am like what exactly is this fellow talking about in a lengthy epistle as this for Christ sake?!

I asked a very valid question which you clearly evaded.

Again in using analogies, please ensure it is used in perspective. You most certainly aren't vast in land matters and you employ a King-Son-Merchant-Land analogy to attempt to answer my question, huh?! Haba Oga Noble...? How can the son legally sell a piece of land without a Power of Attorney? Without it, he the son has no legal custody to trade and cannot have traded the land gifted him abinitio. It is an aberration and a fraudulent transaction hence the King is duty bound to annul the pseudo transaction. Even the Merchant knows this that he lacks locus standing.

Bottomline is, God does not and cannot respect evil otherwise Satan will be having a second chance my friend!

If you must argue on the power of attorney clause, then you don't understand the contextualization of the analogy.

The land in the analogy is symbolic. It could represent anything. The subject matter has nothing to do with physical land or any power of attorney. What I'm trying to tell you is that Satan legally paid the price to get the dominion from Adam. Jesus redeemed it for you and I.

A typical case is the case between Jacob and Esau. Jacob legally bought the birthright from Esau as the latter ignorantly exchanged it for a plate of poridge. Hence, Isaac being just couldn't curse Jacob even after he subtly took away the blessings.

You expect God to trash Satan and end the sufferings. I tell you that God is just. He doesn't respect Satan as you misinterpreted. He respects the legality of the exchange. Hence, the solution is redemption. This solution is available through the blood that Christ shed on the cross of Calvary.

To think God did absolutely nothing to end human suffering is completely erroneous.

Why did Jesus say:

"Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

Those who come unto Jesus are immediately set on a journey that leads to eternal peace.

Sterope:
I have a right over a land because God promised me the land 5000 years ago

The early Christians didn't believe this. The European Christians didn't believe it. Jews were responsible for Jesus death and they persecuted them. This new interpretation must be some Israel propaganda for Christians solidarity.

What an absolute joke!

Why dabble into issues you do not understand.

The post you mentioned isn't talking about literal lands and literal people. It was an analogy. The person I mentioned understands it well. We're discuss Satan and man. Not Israel and Palestine.

However, your response did not fail to expose your ignorance.

The lànd of Palestine was indeed promised to Israel 5,000yrs ago, but they have taken delivery of the promise more than 4,000yrs ago.

The Israelis are not fighting over a land that God promised them, rather they are fighting over a land that is theirs, upon which their enemies have encroached.

Jerusalem was Israel's capital. It was previously a land that belonged to the Jebushites. David the third king of Israel conquered Jebush 3,000 yrs ago, and renamed it Jerusalem. He moved the capital there from Hebron, and it has belonged to Israel ever since.

You don't even know what you're dabbling into.

PNomsule:
First off, you clearly deferred answering my question only to ask me a question using an analogy that is inconsistent with the subject under discuss.

Your illustration is begging the questions:
(a) This merchant, is he evil inclined?
(b) What may be his motive to have obtained the land?
(c) What currency and documents were used in this exchange?
(d) Has there been a King who gives a part of his Kingdom together with the Power of Attorney to his son while still alive? ...

Remember that God is Omniscient so this King has to have foreknowledge of this "merchant". Answer my question and give answers to the pertinent questions itemised and I will go ahead to answer yours.

If you think that the question I asked deviates from the subject matter, then, you still have a lot to learn.

The answer to my apology is the answer to your question. Let me answer it for you.

Psalm 115:15-16 makes us to understand that "The heavens, even the heavens are the Lord's, but the earth, He has given unto the sons of men."

After giving man the earth, God blessed him and commanded him to have dominion over all things - Genesis 1:26.

Now, the serpent which is the devil had been cast out of heaven down to earth. The very purpose for which God created man was to humiliate Satan who sought to overthrow Him. He was formerly called Lucifer. One of the highest ranking arc angel in heaven.

God deliberately created an image of Himself using ordinary dust. Then, He put fallen Lucifer under the dominion of that dust. Meaning, "You seek to overthrow your Creator? This dust shall rule over you." Satan got angry for such an humiliation. Hence, he schemed to snatch the dominion away.

Satan was able to achieve his aim using deception. He lured man into sin. Man exchanged his dominion for a bite of the forbidden fruit. This was a spiritual transaction. Each time you sin, the devil gains more ground in your life. A spiritual transaction always occur.

Now, back to my allegory. God is the King. The son is Man. Satan is the merchant.

Now, your questions are baseless. Let me come to them:

(a) This merchant, is he evil inclined?

It doesn't matter whether the merchant is evil inclined or not. If he has made a legitimate purchase, the most righteous action to take for the King is to offer a refund in order to recover the land.

(b) What may be his motive to have obtained the land?

From the narrative, his motive is clear. Since the story stated that the land has mineral deposits, it is simple logic to conclude that the merchant has knowledge of what the prince does not know. he defined eyed the mineral deposits.

In contrast, Satan understood the benefit of the dominion God gave to man, more than man himself.

The merchant's motive actually is not a factor in considering the king's just action.

(c) What currency and documents were used in this exchange?

This question has no relevance whatsoever in determining the right response of the King.

(d) Has there been a King who gives a part of his Kingdom together with the Power of Attorney to his son while still alive?


This question is completely off course. The story never said the king gave his son any power of attorney. Rather, the king gave his prince a piece of land out of his vast estate.

Judging from the off course questions you just asked, it will be easy for me to conclude that, the main reason why you're so confused is that you do not read comprehensively.

Now, contrasting the analogy with the matter in discourse. Satan has subtly bought the dominion away from man. He has a legal holding on the dominion of the earth.

God is almighty but God doesn't break His own laws. Rather than forcefully recover the dominion from Satan, God redeemed it through Jesus Christ.

That's why the Bible says: "We are bought with a price." Jesus paid the price with His blood.

The devil legally owns the earth. He is the god of this world. Those who subscribe to redemption and embrace its terms are no longer under Satan's dominion. They wait for a new heaven and a new earth where righteousness dwells. A new earth devoid of the person of Satan. There shall be peace there. Suffering shall be no more. Amen.