₦airaland Forum

huxley:
Would all atheists end up in hell for eternity?

dont u think u deserve it?

babaearly:
See how christians make people sick? This hell nonsense must stop. Who told you sinners go to hell when they die? Do you guys even read your bible at all?

so where do sinners go?

Deep Sight:
Now we are not supposed to take examples from God?

Tomorrow you will say that Jesus is God and that we should take examples from him by being Christ-Like.

Is it God-Like to lie?

Chai, these people sef.

1. what was the purpose for deceiving king ahab?

2. the prophet who eventually told Ahab what would happen, who sent the prophet?

huxley:
Yes - Your evidence is below;

1) Inventing Jesus; Part 1

2) Inventing Jesus; Part 2

when will u develop the guts to debate ur false assertions?

Officerricky:
I've come to realise that it doesn't really matter wat we do, how much we try to please God and obey his words, how much we earnestly yearn for His fellowship, how much input we put into the progress of His gospel. When the time comes for the "will of God", none of these are taken into consideration. God goes all the way to cause pains, break hearts, cause sorrows, agonies and regrets just for His glory to be made manifest. I can't but remember the blind man that was made blind for 38yrs just for God's glory. Some people are created and then some wicked qualities are instilled in them just for the glory of God to be made manifest. These things are just driving me crazy. I know u might wonder why i'm saying all these. It's just my mother. She gave God everything she'd, served Him, was devoted, prayed to Him for long life and prosperity. And all God paid her back with was untimely death at 45. I know somebody is going to tell me it's God's will but can't He just consider the pains and sorrows He causes to the people He created just to effect these wills. I'm just don't understand!

emotional wreck is not an excuse for ignorance.
If ur mother truly served God like u claimed . . . . . .then u should be confident that she is in glory with the Lord.

MyJoe:
Did oyinbos have this problem too? Eric Hobsbawm, the famous British Jewish historian, has no doubt. According to him, Jews began to make outstanding impacts in all disciplines after the 18th century when they freed themselves from the application of Mosaic laws which they hitherto applied to the very last details of their lives. The laws blocked their minds and chained their imagination, threatening to keep them in the era of sea-parting gods. So the Jews' achievements came, not when they were "God's chosen people", but at the time they consciously rejected that identity! Mazaje has already made reference to the Dark Ages, when the Church had the final say on matters and people were being lynched for "witchcraft" all over Europe. Is it a coincidence that the human race has made more progress in the last 100 years than it has since the world began?

This is FALSE.

How do u explain the fact that the jews still see themselves as God's chosen people even till today? and their belief for the end of the world and the awaiting of a messiah?

How can people make progress who rely on God to work for them? I am sorry to say, but the majority of African people are like children who refuse to deal with the complexity of the world around them, but look to a big daddy up there to take care of things. There can be no grain of doubt that superstition and irrationality sit at the pith of, or, at least, play a large part in Africa's backwardness. It is a sad story.

how does God work? would God go to my farm to plant my crops for me because I believe in Him? . . . . .u speak as if Africans and theists are a bunch of foolish people . . . . ur ignorance is embarrassing.

mazaje1:
From wikipedia(Dark ages). . . ."During the 17th and 18th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment, many critical thinkers saw religion as antithetical to reason". . . . .According to the same wikipedia(Age of enlightenment) It says that "The Age of Enlightenment (or simply the Enlightenment) is the era in Western philosophy and intellectual, scientific and cultural life, centered upon the eighteenth century, in which reason was advocated as the primary source and legitimacy  for authority.". . .Once religion and its mythical claims were dumped and reason was embraced europe moved forward. . . .

You are just helplessly dishonest  . . . . . .this is what wikipedia says

The Dark Ages is a term referring to the perceived period of cultural and economic decline and disruption that took place in Western Europe following the decline of the Roman Empire.[1][2] The word is derived from Latin saeculum obscurum (dark age), a phrase first recorded in 1602.[3] The label employs traditional light-versus-darkness imagery to contrast the "darkness" of the period with earlier and later periods of "light". Originally, the term characterized the bulk of the Middle Ages as a period of intellectual darkness between the extinguishing of the light of Rome, and the Renaissance or rebirth from the 14th century onwards.[4] This definition is still found in popular usage,[1][2][5] but increased recognition of the accomplishments of the Middle Ages since the 19th century has led to the label being restricted in application. Today it is frequently applied only to the earlier part of the era, the Early Middle Ages. However, modern scholars who study the era tend to avoid the term altogether for its negative connotations, finding it misleading and inaccurate for any part of the Middle Ages.[6][7]

The concept of a Dark Age originated with the Italian scholar Petrarch (Francesco Petrarca) in the 1330s, and was originally intended as a sweeping criticism of the character of Late Latin literature.[4][8] Petrarch regarded the post-Roman centuries as "dark" compared to the light of classical antiquity. Later historians expanded the term to refer to the transitional period between Roman times and the High Middle Ages, including not only the lack of Latin literature, but also a lack of contemporary written history, general demographic decline, limited building activity and material cultural achievements in general. Popular culture has further expanded on the term as a vehicle to depict the Middle Ages as a time of backwardness, extending its pejorative use and expanding its scope.[9]

where EXACTLY in the above quote does wikipedia associate religion to the dark ages? 

How many developed country leaders depend on god to help them solve their problems?. . .When was the last time you heard the country of any developed nation praying to god to deliver health care or electricity to its citizens?. . .How many scientist, economist, and government bureaucrats in developed countries say that they expect the world to end during their life time?. . . .

dude, u FRAUDULENTLY  and IGNORANTLY claimed that the west is developing cos it has done away with religion. . .so I am asking u to name any western developed country who is an atheist? . . . . .why cant u name just one? 

It seems you have not gotten the point I am making. . . .Why should people be patriotic to their countries when half the people living in it believe that the world is going to end during their life time?. . . .Why tackle corruption in government when you believe that in the world will end in a very short time, why bother?. . .

This is LAME.

This belief is held all over the world. . . .including the middle east, where they are fast developing. The world ending does not exempt believers from a good and healthy living.

How many people in the muslim world have told you that they expect thew world to end during their life time? %0 percent of africans said they expect that to happen during their life time. . .

and did u conduct a survey?

The point I am trying to make is simple we will never develop if we hold unto religious beliefs that make half the people on the continent to believe that the world is going to end during their life time. . . .

This is laughable . . . .cos this beliefs are held all over the world. all major world leaders are openly theists . . . so what are u talking about? 

The only thing stopping Africa from developing is greed, corruption, lack of foresight and poverty.

mazaje1:
I read noetic's statement right from the begining, he was making statements that aren't found in the bible. . . . .Stay blessed brother. . . .

mazaje1:
Now we are back to ontology again. . . .Will you stop shooting yourself on your foot?. . .So host from hell can be summoned upon to go about carrying out yahweh's dirty laundry eh?. . . .How do you reconcile that to the free will concept you guys keep bandying around?. . . .

. . . . .

. . . . .What exactly is it you are saying?. . . . .

enjoy ur folly.

mazaje1:
Do you know what they tag the period which they used to be overtly religious and depend on their gods for everything?. . .They called it the DARK AGES. . . .When they were over zealous with their religions they were Just like us, but once they shed their mythical beliefs and accepted the naturalistic view they were able to build air planes, discover the DNA, discover electricity, build nuclear power and bombs, discover elements, discover microscopic organisms, improve on their health care delivery, improve their life expectancy rate, build functional economies etc. . .

This is rather ridiculous.

The ancient centuries are called dark ages because of the difference and advancement of technology we have now in comparison to then. It has absolutely nothing to do with religious beliefs.
If u claim that religious beliefs have been dumped. . . , how many developed world leaders are atheist? dude, your ignorance stinks.

The advancement in technology and improvement in human life has more to do with the zeal and patriotism and ultimately the need for such development. Africa's socio-economic problems are largely due to corruption, greed, lack of a universal identity and patriotism.

Which poll told you that 50 percent of the cardinals, or Muslims living in Vatican or Dubai believe that Jesus or Mohammad is going to come back during their life time? I repeat the belief that we hold is what is stopping us from moving forward. . .Why would people demand change or make plans for the next 50 years when over 50 percent of them believe that the world will end in their life time?

why are u recycling your over-beaten assertions?

Since the arabs/muslims also believe that the world would end soon . . . . .why EXACTLY are they developing Dubai and other places to be economically relevant over the next 50 years?

African's have problems because of the type of believes we hold. . .As long as we keep believing that our problems can only be solved by external and supernatural forces there will be nothing for us. . .

This is the kind of assertions that makes my belly ache  So God asked your leaders to loot the treasury, right? and God asked contractors to embezzle their funds. . .rights?
Dude, Get real. Many commit crime and hide under anything to justify their crime. To believe the ridiculous assertion stated in the above post IMO tells a lot about your objectivity.

Imagine the former president of Nigeria saying that our electricity problems should be left in the hands of god . . .People believe that it is god that will create jobs for them, heal them when they are sick, provide food for them, give them happiness etc. . .Again why would people plan for the next 50 years when some of our leaders also believe that the world is going to end during their life time?

1. You believe the former president when he said that ,  . . but u disbelieve him when he said he is the best leader Nigeria ever had. are u intelligent at all, mazaje? why pick and choose the ridiculous assertions of politicians to believe? why did u not believe him when he also said that he is the best leader ever?

2. have u asked those who believe in God helping them get a job . . . .what they mean by that statement. FYI . . , it does not mean God, writes their CV or applies for them . . . .but God through His divine grace and provision brings their petition to fulfilment.

3. the fact that people plan for the next 50 years is evidence that religious beliefs in INDEPENDENT of economic and political decisions.

while u may be having "fun" . . , hope u also know that u are blaspheming.

@ Mazaje

So yahweh lives and meets with angels and host from hell and sends the host from hell to carry out his dirty works for him eh?. . .Interesting. . .I thought the bible says that light(Yahweh and his angles) and darkness(Satan and his own angles) can not live together because there is nothing that joins light with darkness or is this one of the many contradictions that abound in the bible?. . . .

1. why dont u ask for the explicit ontology of God. . .before u start spilling out ur unfortunate ignorance. All things that exist, whether in light or darkness are subject to the authority of God. . . . .to think otherwise is to have no idea of the ontological nature of God.

2. When the bible says nothing joins light and darkness, it talks about will, judgement, nature but NOT about authority cos God still reigns supreme.

Where in the story did it say that the attendees included host from hell?. . .The story makes no mention of host from hell or earth and so it remains(your mental gymnastics will not help you here). . . .Unless if you are trying to say that you are privy to information the author of the story isn't. . .The story in Job was very clear who the members in attendance were. . .Yahweh apparently had a penchant for putting lying spirits into people, because a less detailed, but similar incident is related in Isaiah 37:7 and 2 Kings 19:7. . . . .the pitting of scripture against scripture is a logically unsound way to protect the inerrancy doctrine as you are trying to do here, because it is a tactic that seeks to prove inerrancy by assuming inerrancy. "Your passage can't mean what you are saying it means," is what your argument implies, "because a passage over here very clearly teaches thus-and-so." What you are saying in essence is that if your passage means what you claim it means and if mine means what I claim it means, then there is a contradiction in the bible, and that can't be because to you and the beliefs you hold the bible does not contradict itself. . . . .That's what biblical inerranist like you claim all the time. . .You make things up and say things the bible does not even say to explain absurdity away. . . .

The above is unfortunately ridiculous and shows a contempt and disdain for knowledge. what would be the basis of the faith of xtians if God had no authority over dark forces?

can u just pause and think before posting at all?

Yahweh does not want his "chosen men" to go to war and the best he can do is consult lying spirits and encourage them to go lie to the king eh?. . .Interesting. . . .How then do you reconcile this event with the kings free will? or did free will not exist at that time Grin. . . .The mental gymnastic you guys use to explain absurdity away is pathetic. . .This is what the passage says in case you forgot. . . "And Yahweh said, Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?"

what has free-will got to do with the counsel Ahab received from the prophets? are u confused?

Did you not read where it says" Yahweh put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets"?. . .It did not say that they lied or made a false prophecy on their own free will but the passage says that it was yahweh that put the lying spirit in their mouths meaning they had no control of the lies and were just lying because yahweh wanted them to tell lies. . . .So yahweh sends lying spirits into people and makes them to tell lies once they lie he commands that they be killed eh?. . .Interesting how this yahweh character is I must say. . . .Yahweh intends to separate the false from the true prophets and the best he can do is send lying spirits into the mouths of the prophets and make them tell lies eh?. . .interesting

A little objectivity and honesty on ur part will reveal that prior to that encounter the king deduces from his conversation with Jehosaphat that the other 400 prophets were natural liars who always tells the king what he wants to hear?. . implying that they are false prophets. . . .why did u not deduce that from the passage?

Since u knwo so much about Yahweh . . .how does He choose to expose false prophets?

mazaje1:
Forget Noetic and his weird mental somersault and gymnastics. . . .Noetic will say things that the bible never says just to explain absurdity away. . . There was a time we had an argument about Jephthah and his daughter whom the bible says he sacrificed as a burnt offering unto yahweh, Do you know that noetic denied what was written in the bible, He said the girl was not offered unto yahweh as a burnt offering even when the bible VERY CLEARLY says that she was offered as a burnt offering unto yahweh. . .He quickly alluded to some obscure verses in the book of samuel and equated her sacrifice to that of samuel . . . .When I showed him what the bible actually said he came up with another excuse that yahweh did not request for her to be sacrificed and that the sacrifice was out of Jephthah's free will even when his initial argument was that she was not sacrificed as a burnt offering unto yahweh. . . .

There is no need beating and defending ancient myths that were written by different people of an advancing culture who all had different idea's or notion of who their god is supposed to be. . . .Even the bible does NOT projects a coherent version of who the god it is talking about. . . .To some of the writers yahweh is a blood thirsty dictator, to others he is a loving father that knows no evil, so some he is just like them, he sometimes does evil and apologizes for the evil he did. . . .To some of them he is all powerful and can do all things, to others he is limited in his power, These different notion of the writers of the bible is why there are countless contradictions in the nature and personality of Yahweh. . . .People do not care at all because just like the bible writers they just pick and choose which attributes of yahweh best fits into the version of god they have been made to believe or that which matches with their experiences. . .Those that subscribe to the WOF version see yahweh as this all loving, all protecting, all good, all providing god that will always provide and protect them. . .To them they are yahweh' loving pets and yahweh is a loving god that can not hurt a fly. . . To those of them that believe in fire and brimstone version of christianity, Yahweh is vile, spiteful, malevolent who will kill all the unbelievers and they tag this attribute they assing to yahweh as Justice . . .

did God ask Jephtah to sacrifice his daughter? . . . .the moment u stop being honest in debates. . . .u have lost all credibility.

mazaje1:
There is a synergy between belief in myths(Religion) which has a very strong control on the mindset of people and quality of life they posses. . . .

This is meaningless . . . , considering that the west used to be more religiously zealous than africa, yet is not backward. Africa's failure cannot be sorely blamed on religion. . , to do so would amount to intellectual dishonesty.

All our societal decadence has DIRECT connections to our overzealous religious practice and beliefs. . . .Our siddon look mentality to our political process is as a result of our religious beliefs. . . .How do you expect Nigerians to aspire for anything good in this life when over 50% of Nigerians believe that Jesus or Mohamed will come and save them from their miseries during their life time?. . .Why fight corrupt authorities when you believe that the world will come to an end during your life time as shown from the research?. . . .By the way the bible and the koran TEACHES people NOT to fight the authorities because according to both books the leaders are giving their power from god and the are to be respected at all times. . . .

please say something new.

The arabs also believe that the world would come to an end as mohammed foretold . . yet they developed Dubai, Saudi Arabia and other arabian places. The papacy also believes that the world would come to an end as the bible foretells . . . .yet this has not stopped the continuous development of the vatican and rome . . , so what EXACTLY is ur point mazaje?

I am not worshiping any white man. . .The person that is worshiping a white man and his mythical ideas is YOU. . .Who were those that brought Christianity to you?. . . Whose religion is Christianity?. . .If the white man had not come to Africa I doubt if you will be here defending his ancient myths, As a matter of FACT you are still worshiping the white man's ideas, wishes, fantasies and mythology. . . .The white man is constantly progressing because he has dropped the mythical approach to things and has decided to solve his problems instead of depending on imaginary gods to come to his aid he has decided to use his senses to solve his problem and better his life. . . .

You are the one with an inferior complex and mentality here, who considers the white man and some "mythical gods" the source of all problems. This is largely unobjective . . .Africa has problems because of its moral and leadership bankruptcy. . , simple.

I will LOVE to see Africa become a super power some day but with this mindset of ours it is IMPOSSIBLE. . .You can keep chanting the will of all year long but that it self is another myth. . . .

We shall see.

Mudley313:
quick to lose your temper huh? just like your violent n maniacal god. way to be christ-like mr. man. i wonder why the so-called christians on dis forum are the most foul mouthed. my question still stands, was dat fairy tale/gibberish u just narrated from harry porter or star wars?

dude, I simply asked a question . . . . .do u have a brain at all? . . . , if u do, please use it.

Mudley313:
and where did u get all this fairytale/gibberish u just typed above. harry porter or star wars?

sometimes one wonders aloud ., . . .if the above poster has a brain at all?
does the acronym called "mudley" have a brain at all?

miftaudeen:
don't be mislead by the nature of this life, GOD does not aboundan it, He gave man freewill to choose between good and bad. and He said in the  holy Qu'ran that ,  i will never change the condition of communites  untill they change thier bad characters.

did u miss ur way?

how does the koran allah hope to change communities? . . . . .by instigating them to war and terrorism, with the hope of 72 virgins?

@ OP

what I cannot rationalize is ur attempt to reconcile Africa's religion to its poverty underdevelopment and backwardness.

did religion stop obasanjo from fixing the power sector? or was it religion that stopped yaradua from resigning honourably? why did religion not stop black south africans from fighting apartheid? is the same religion stopping millions of africans in Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Sudan, Congo e.t.c from fighting their individually corrupt, greedy and self serving governments.

Mazaje, the least u can do is to be objective. The whites u worship are simply progressing because they have ulterior motives of neo-colonialism. If and when African patriots and intellectuals come to power. . . . .the tide will turn and Africa will rise again.

And guess what . . . .IT is the will of God that Africa rises in this generation to become a super-power.

mazaje1:
2Ch And Micai'ah said, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left;
2Ch 18:19 and the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab the king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said one thing, and another said another.
2Ch 18:20 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, 'I will entice him.' And the LORD said to him, 'By what means?'
2Ch 18:21 And he said, 'I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And he said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go forth and do so.'
2Ch 18:22 Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets; the LORD has spoken evil concerning you."

What's up with yahweh and his angels?. . . .Why are they lying and deceiving people? Or is this part of the lying justice of yahweh. . . . . . . . .

1. Yahweh is called . . .the Lord of HOSTS. This includes the hosts of heaven (holy angels) and the hosts of hell (fallen and demonic angels).

2. When God convened the meeting as showcased in the OP, the attendees included the hosts of hell. This I know because the book of jobs also records satan attending a gathering of the sons of God. So in asking for the deception of king Ahab, God was also convening with spirits who by their very nature are also lying spirits.

3. why would God ask that king Ahab be lied to? what was God's intention/will?
To answer this question, one must look at the vessels used for the lie. God used 400 available prophets, and according to king Ahab in verses 5-7 Micah was the only one who usually tells the truth in terms of God's prophetic revelations. Ahab loved the 400 prophets for their sweet lies and hated Micah for his bitter truth.
The will/intention of God concerning the situation was revealed in Micah's prophecy to imply that God does not want Israel to fight as they are like a lost sheep without a shepherd (verse 16).

4. to further understand the intention of God . . . . u could go back to God's law to moses where God clearly stated that whosoever makes a FALSE prophecy should be killed. God intended to separate the false from the true prophets. And to further understand how far Ahab was from the will of God, ahab never even knew of God's lawful command.

mazaje1:
Please SHOW me anybody here that has said that the universe came out of nothing?

The old mazaje qualifies , . . . , but the new mazaje has dumped that ignorance

. . . .What makes my belly ache more is that in the 21st century there are still dudes who still believe in the already discredited writings and superstitions of unknown men ancient men that did NOT even know what the stars are. . . . .

What are writings and superstitions? The words that have been real for a whole lot of people CANNOT be regarded as superstition? how do u explain the miracles billions of people experience all over the world? on what authority and in what capacity do u deny these experiences?

Thanks to modern science we know what the stars we see are, we know the age of our planet and that of the universe, we have an idea about planetary formation, galaxy formation, we know about the formation of asteroids, comets and we also know our position in the universe and in our solar system etc. . . . .

Mazaje, pls cut the crap.

1. here u are creating the fraudulent impression of an infallible science. . . .this is NOT true. what exactly stops ur scientific gods from telling us how the planets where formed? and when? or the galaxy formation? or the solar system? The illiteracy involved in many scientific assumptions points to ONLY one thing . . , .there is an organised satanic effort to deny the existence of God by "scientists".
otherwise, why start out dismissing the case for a creator?

2. ur science buffons have ignorantly asserted that u evolved from a dead organic substance . . .pls ask them on my behalf, that when EXACTLY did this organism live? was its live recorded? by whom?

3. Science has always been wrong. remember when ur scientific idols claimed that the world is flat? what happened to all ur scientific claims on Noah's flood the moment rootless polystrate fossils were found?

4. why are ur scientific idols unable to list the pioneer chemical elements that kick-started life.

please save all ur scientific LIES/DECEPTION for ignorant dudes.

Even if the universe had a creator its up to you to show or provide objective or empirical evidence to show that the creator is male, is all loving, all powerful, knows all things, likes the small of burnt animals, dislikes women talking in public, likes pacifism, is 3 personalities in one etc. . . . . .

All of the rest are irrelevant on this thread . . . . .what we want to know is if the unoverse has a creator . . . . His identity is not the subject of this thread. If however u are really interested, u can open a new thread for us to thrash that out.

The complexity of the universe has nothing to do with your god which is the creation of men. . . . .

where is ur evidence that my God was created by men?

OLAADEGBU:
If you quiz them a bit as they did Richard Dawkins in the clip I posted earlier revealed[b] you will find out that they are just in self denial of the existence of the Creator.[/b]  All they want is an axiom that allows them to continue their immoral behaviour without their conscience troubling pricking them.  It is just like someone who refuses to open his eyes because he does not want to see the sunshine.  They are deliberately being "ignorant" for obvious reasons.

This summarizes it all. It just makes my belly ache that in the 21st century there are still dudes who still think that the universe came out of nothing.

jagunlabi:
Good job, noetic. Clap for yaself! 

To convince an atheist that there might be a first cause, or a creator(s), or a grand designer(of some sort) of the universe and all that is in it, might be quite difficult but not unachievable. But to convince the same atheist that that creator is the version that you subscribe to is a whole different ball game.

I am not in the business of convincing atheists on/about anything. its only difficult for an uneducated and intelligent person to see obvious reasons why the universe cannot but have a creator.

So, to demonstrate that, your next tasks are as follows;

1) Convince him that the creator is a "HE"
2) Convince him that the bible god is the creator
3) Convince him that the creator's name is yahweh or jehovah
4) Convince him that the bible is the creator's word.
5) Convince him that jesus is both the creator's only begotten son, as well as him at the same time. In other words, make him believe that christianity is the creator's preferred religion

I don't want to burden you with too much tasks (because there many more), but for now, try those 5 for size and see if you can accomplish them. Even you will agree that these 5 tasks will prove to be much much much more challenging. But have a go, anyway. Goodluck and cheers.

The choice of believing in Jesus Christ is very very very optional , . , , with corresponding consequences. I have nothing to prove with regards to the above. . .let every man make a decision and learn to live by the consequences.

alaper:
Even if there is some sort of intelligent designer, that doesnt prove anything!  There is no evidence that mankind is central to its agenda or even relavant to it more than any other organism in this planet or even in the whole universe.  It could be that its central focus is some sort of life in some far away galaxy.  And there is no evidence that it demands 'worship' and subservience of any sort.  There is no way this idea of intelligent design can be stretched to prove or explain all the ornamental trappings of religion like scripture, churches, dogma, religious laws, tithing, prophesy, preisthood, etc  which have over the ages been put there to dress up what is essentially just an idea.  They have become so structured that everyone has forgotten that it was just and idea to begin with.  It is like dressing the invisible man.  Everybody sees him when he is fully clothed.  But soon everybody forgets that there is nothing inside, and they are only seeing the clothes.  Everybody has become so obsessed with the clothes that nobody is asking whether there is anything inside to begin with.  Sadly, that is the story of religion

This thread intends to discuss the bolded alone . . , u can keep ur innuendos about religious doctrines to urself.
what is the rationality of believing that there is no creator?

mazaje1:
God, Gods are loaded words. . . .There could be a creator or creators of the universe that I have never denied even though its only an assumption. . . .[size=30pt]The universe may or may not be created[/size]. . . .

I take full credit for this . . , .mazaje is now gradually dumping his ignorance and shifting his goal post from full blown atheism. . . .to doubtful atheism/theism.

wirinet:
What else do you want me to say?

You mind is still locked in the pre-historic age, which attributes any unexplainable phenomenon to a God. In that world view;

your post is the funniest I have read this year.

Thunder and lightening are attributed to the anger of a God, same with earthquake.

Rainbow is caused by God remembering them of the promise he made with his people.

Flooding caused but rising ocean levels is caused by God of the sea.

Active volcanoes belching gases is sign of Gods anger or Gods mode of communication.

The Sun itself is a God, while the moons and planets were lesser Gods.

Solar eclipse is caused by disagreements between the Sun and Moon Gods.


Disasters, deceases and misfortunes were also attributed to Gods or sometimes anti-Gods, depending on the mood of the people.

But I thought we agreed to look at the evidences and see if they support a creator. . . .and not to analyse the various concept of God/god? , , . . .why are u back-tracking on that?

Here in the 21st century, the practice has not changed. It is just that the theists wait for any new discovery and accommodate it into their theology.

Science discovers the Atom and theist shout, O god is wonderful for creating Atoms

how did atomes come into existence?

Science discovers Galaxies, quasars and blackholes, they shout God is mighty for creating them.

Does this galaxies not appear too structured to have been formed/emerged out of nothing?

Science spends decades decoding the DNA, the scream, o God is wonderful for creating such a thing as the DNA.

Science uncovers the true age of the earth, they shout, our god already told us, that a day is equal to 1000 years.

is science now at odds with the God-concept?

Mr Noetic, I have said it again and again, that it is impossible for you mind to grasp the science behind natural phenomena, so it is safe for you to just keep to your basic primitive explanations of God Did It.

where does one begin to explain to you, the imperfections in the structure of the universe, or the chemistry involved with the beginning  of life, or  the formation of Stars, solar systems and galaxies?  Can one even  begin to explain to you the biological  meaning of life? before one can attempt to explain its pioneering constituents.
Do not worry, you do not need to crack you head to explain why a rainbow forms, you already have an explanation that is suitable for your mind.

Mr wirinet . . . .I would love to be educated on the subjects mentioned above and why they explain that there is no God . . . .u never might know, I might convert to atheism

where is mazaje and wirinet?

viaro:
If you had nothing to add, leave viaro out of your sham.

After I explained that statement in John 3:13 based on the explanation in Ephesians 4:9-10, you kept insisting that Elijah did not go into heaven. It was not an explanation of any realms that you were after, but a categorical denial of 2 Kings 2:11 from the onset.

If you had agreed that Elijah went into HEAVEN initially, and then make your case for any realms you may so choose, there would have been NO NEED to spend post after post trying to persuade you to admit first that 2 Kings 2:11 simply said and meant that Elijah went up into HEAVEN, instead of saying that was not so because you had issues with John 3:13.

Why did it take you so long to admit that Elijah went into HEAVEN? Why the initial denial of 2 Kings 2:11?

You started out denying that verse on notions that hold no substance - and ended up throwing your wildest guess into a realm of "UNKNOWN" which includes the 'outer-space, planets, sun, moon and stars' - like such a realm has not been known!

Even given the confusion you brought yourself for the sake of an argument, one would still have to wonder at the vacuity of thought that you assume an "UNKNOWN" for your "realm 2" which yet included the planets, sun, moon, and stars . . this is all a laugh! I would have hoped that you understood that such a 'realm 2' as you described is KNOWN rather than UNKNOWN. You could do so by explaining WHY such a realm that was known yet was UNKNOWN to you! No - you offered nothing for your vacant assertion, only to crawl back making further empty excuses.

ok.

Kay 17:
obviously, an almighty would not rest, if he is transcendent, if he does not possess a biological body and has metabolism. but the ancient where misled by dogma and perceived revelations and not reason. Christianity is like all other religions - fake and lies.

Mudley313:
ok mr man of high standards. let me break it down to u in common mans terms. human beings (jews) when create this god, give this their god wen dem create human attributes (cos dem be humans), like taking a rest after a hard days work

i dunno. i dont read fairy tales

God created rest and set a standard for rest.

Deep Sight:
^^^ Noetic, dyu belive in extra terrestial intelligence?

u mean spiritual beings? yeah.

That there could be other beings like us living in other reaches of the universe?

is heaven and hell included in ur definition of the universe?

Dyu think they would be required to beleive in Jesus of Nazareth?

Jesus is an ESTABLISHED AUTHORITY in the spirit realm.

Marlbron:
Read through all of this. Why young men do these arguments end up in flames/IS it a question of ego?

Noetic v Viaro

Noetic concludes that even though it is stated that Elijah went to heaven, the evidence of Jesus from a recent testament counters that, plus the fact that there are many heavens. Which heaven did he go to? Certainly not the one Jesus came from! Why is it a big deal to understand this, Viaro? Seriously this is what I take out from this.

I am sure there are also more intelligent viewers out there, who like u, can make deductions and conclusions based on the postings on this thread.  I have no idea what mr viaro is on about, sounds like ego to me.

1. when I stated that Elijah did not go to heaven . . . .that statement was in lieu of the statement of Jesus.

2. when I did assert that elijah went into heaven ,   . . .it was after I had analysed the realms of heaven and noted that the outer-space, planets and unknown places are usually called heaven. But this heaven is not the same heaven Jesus came from or the dwelling place of Jehovah.

I have nothing else to add.

Kay 17:
its absurd to claim what you cannot prove, an entity you can neither see, touch or perceive, or communicate with. the foundation is the shaky bible with discredited history and doctrines, and conflicts with scientific facts. a dogma induced by indoctrination. our existence has always puzzled and fascinated us. and all religions produce answers. all at several points conflict and contradict each others accounts. thus whats the yardstick? dogma or reason.

This is rather RIDICULOUS. have u been reading/following this thread at all? 

This thread does not intend to illustrate the religious notions of God. . . . .but the prevalent scientific premises that do support/suggest the need for a creator. I am sick of hearing half-baked, unintelligent and delusively ignorant atheist making the same ridiculous claims about an invisible religious God.

did life start from an unknown dead organism? did the universe appear from nothing? whats your explanation for the complex nature of the DNA? . . . . these are the questions you are supposed to rationalize and not some out-dated bible bashing notions.

we should not be deceived that we live in an orderly and regulated world. even in chaos, order is perceived. the beauty and complexity of our world would only be understood by comparison, which is strictly subjective. the galaxy is so large and tainted with imperfections, half baked planets and rocks and all.

1. what are u comparing our world with? how did u come to the conclusion that the universe is imperfect?

2. what are the imperfections that taint out galaxy?  and why did they not emerge as perfect like other components of the galaxy?

also evolution, the extinctions: all trial and error. there wouldn't have been the need for it. the besides, i think the simpler it is, the more the indication of an almighty, because for it to be very complex, it is then building upon some constant fundamental rules.

dude are u confused? 

how did life on its own spring out? what are the pioneer elements that kick-started life?

finally, this almighty guy self. following the rule that all things have a creator, who created this god? who endowed god with consciousness? i think it is self evidential.

did God have to be created? This is illiteracy in disguise.

Mudley313:
cos humans who created him had to bestow upon him human attributes

even by ur very low standards . . . .does the above make any sense?

is dat a direct quote from your bible or your just makin sh.t up?

what do u think?