₦airaland Forum

TayserMahiri:
Tanzanian Swahili is very sweet, you can only find such Swahili in Mombasa in kenya. And yeah, they stand out in their music, its known as Bongo Flava, bongo is swahili for brain, due to the deep insight in their music. Kenya's music is hardly about message but all the way partying.
I'm not sure they don't like Kenyans, they like kenyans, but just that they find kenyans abit too brash/ overbearing in their economic endeavors. Kenyans on the other hand find them slow and unprogressive.

On a government level however, the two countries don't see eye to eye, with very little cooperation.

Ok i see.
Also, i don't know if it's just me, but i think Tanzanians seem to look more beautiful and stylish than Kenyans (pardon me). ??
Well, i think your own leaders have to appeal to them and make them see reasons why a greater E.A would be more beneficial for the region. Unless you guys are just being proud for each other

TayserMahiri:
If this is the case, then your institutions are weak. The constitution should have laid down oversight means so that governors and their cronies don't make states their private property. Can't the governors be impeached? From what I get, it is that Nigeria got the states a bit too soon and should probably have waited longer to create a level of homogeneity before giving the states individual powers.

Yes they can be impeached, even the President can be impeached. Some few have been impeached in the past. The problem is that for an impeachment to take place, at least 2/3 of the state lawmakers must approve. Many governors are masters in using ethnic, religion and other sentiments in gainning support from a section of their state masses (including lawmakers) even if they are under-performing.
Yes, the first Nigerian states were created during the civil war to fight seccession, so, people were not mentally prepared for states. However, the first 12 states created were working and making progress until the state proliferation became too much (making 36) and this somehow reduced the viability of the states and made them almost completely dependent on the centre for everything.
The only advantages these dozens of states created is even and greater urbanization throughout the country, where to each state a capital city was assigned administration which of course brought about development of the place.

However, the good news is that some states are now picking up and have woken up to the realities of what a state should be like. This is the fuel that will continue to rekindle the competition among the states. The competition has started and in few decades from now, people will be amazed the kind of advancement Nigeria will make. It would be like a dream and countries like SA or Egypt will not even come close to what Nigeria will be like.
Our states are now building and planning to build their own Seaports, International airports, Airport cities, Intra city railways and engaging in Independent exportation of products. Infact, some states are really dazzling the masses. So, i think we are still somehow on the right track.

TayserMahiri:
East Africa would be miles ahead were it not for one country called Tanzania. Trust me if it was left for Kenya, Rwanda and Uganda, East Africa would be electing a single president by now.

Hmm, so what abt TZ? I have never been to TZ, but from the media i feel they are nice, calm and really cool peeps. I really love their contemporary swahili music flavour. They seem to stand out in the East African music industry (that aside).
Is it that they do not like Kenyans or they are not interested in a regional coalition?

TayserMahiri:
My brother, I hope you guys change this mentality that big equals failure. Many countries have populations we can consider truly big e.g USA, Indonesia, Japan and Brazil, but they are doing waay better than much of Africa.
The second highlighted part is usually a sign of inferiority complex that much of Africa has not yet managed to overcome. Could it be the reason you guys don't like seeing white people in pictures?

Not that i feel big equals failure, just that whatever a big country achieves has far more influence than whatever a smaller country achieves. Take Namibia, Gabon and Botswana for instance, these countries have a higher income per capital and HDMI than South Africa, but still South Africa is the place that attracts world attention, recognition and hype and many all over the world regard SA as the only reasonable and emerging country in Black Africa.

Nigeria is catching up with SA in per capital income, if we have our infrastructure in place and improve our tourism sector like SA, you will see how we will instantly displace SA and become the pride and financial hub of Africa where everyone all over the world wants to invest.
USA and Canada have equal levels of per capital income and HDMI, infact Canada is higher than USA but still USA has the greater world respect, influence and attention.

We are not angry seeing white people in pictures, just that we hate seeing white people dominating any part of mother Africa. It irritates me seeing the richest people in Kenya and SA to be Indians and whites (i mean, we dont dominate them in their own continents, why should they here?). When you are in Capetown for instance you don't feel like you are in Sub saharan Africa, seeing so much white people more than black people.
White people are more civilized cos they have started developing before us, so it looks very unfair seeing Black South Africans feeling fly over us when their country was founded and built on the intelligence of the white man.

Thank you for enlightening us.

MtuMsuper:
I have learnt alot about nigeria from you. You give a clear unbiased picture. much appreciated. mucho gracias amigo

U are welcome.

I also wish you to enlighten me about Kenya and East Africa too.
On a serious note, why is East Africa not united as such? I really wish to see another large working Black African country which will rival Nigeria's population and cultural influence on the continent in order to make our leaders ashamed and challenged to work harder.

I think most times Nigeria sees other African nations as too small or inconsequential and conclude whatever progress these countries make as owing to their small size and population. The only country whose progress challenges many Nigerians is South Africa and most times we easily excuse ourselves with the fact that South Africa was a white founded and controlled economy.

You guys have a common lingua franca and colonial history in East Africa (TZ, Kenya and Uganda specifically), why can't you guys work on that language, unify yourselves and emerge a continental power?
Look at us in West Africa, in spite of the fact that we don't have a common lingua franca nor colonial history, ECOWAS' functioning can be clearly compared to EAC (if not better). Why is that so?

I wish Nigeria had a unifying language like you guys, we would have worked on it and bridged many divides hindering our progress. What exactly is the problem with east Africa? Can u enlighten me?

MtuMsuper:
But you stiil dont see my point either, now do you? Since when is a country like kenya with approx 50 m people , a small country? We have similar dynamics in population i.e ethnic and religious diversity. Dont you think, the size isn't important , but the level of statehood within it.I take Singapore as an example. Composed of ethnic chinese, malays and indians, its level of statehood cannot be compared to even kenya. They do things for the common good. The sort of greedy politicians cum tenderpreneurs you find in many african kleptocracies would certainly face summary execution in Singapore. Can you imagine a place where greedy "businessmen" collude with state officials to steal money meant for kids drugs in a country like Singapore?
That still leaves my big query still unanswered: why hasn't the windfalls from oil sales been used to build water and sanitation lines, electricity and other utilities, fund basic education etc etc . Is that a function of country size or is it sheer irresponsibility? I think the latter.

I never said that Kenya was a small country. Considering most countries on the continent, Kenya is a large one.
I was only making reference to smaller African countries in population like Namibia and Botswana with a large landmass of rescources who have made tremendous progress and alluded it to their very small population. Same thing with the oil rich gulf arabic nations who are more homogenous and do not even operate on democracy.

In Nigeria for instance we have state govts and our states have some degree of autonomy from the federal govt. Our federal govt to a large extent cannot really question our state govts how they spend their Internally generated revenues and monthly allocation. All our Federal govt does is to allocate billions to these states monthly and the states do whatever they like with the money.

Abuja (FCT) is the only place in Nigeria where the Federal govt is directly responsible for providing the basic social amenities and infrastructure for the people and if you visit Abuja you can clearly testify that the FG is meeting up to an extent in that.
In Abuja, roads are tarred up to people's doorsteps, water supply and sanitation is there and that is why the place stands out and can compare among the best cities in Africa.
However, you cannot expect the Federal govt to go and sanitize, plan or tar roads to people's doorsteps in Port harcourt, Kaduna or Enugu cities, that is the responsibility of the state and local govts. This is why many parts of Nigeria are not working because most state govts are failures.

I attended a Federal govt secondary school and university in Nigeria and it may shock you to know that in my secondary school we pay nothing more than $10 dollars annually, infact it is free, but yet we had good facilities which were being renovated time to time and we had access to better subject courses than our counterparts in state govt and private schools.
The same thing with our Federal govt universities. Although they may not be meeting up to world standard, but at least they provide the basic educational requirements at extremely cheap or free costs. Now, when you go to the state govt schools, you find in some states that many are in ruins and abject dilapidation (and the federal govt can do absolutely nothing about them). Eucation is primarily the responsibility of the state govts, the federal govts can only have few secondary and tertiary institutions in a state which cannot meet up to 5% of people from that state.
I guess you can now see why a large country like Nigeria with all the oil money is not meeting up (Our state govts).
This is why many Nigerians are clamouring for restructuring and regionalism cos our state govts are failing (not all though, but majority).

This is typically unlike smaller countries where the single centred govt can easily enforce development uniformly all over the small country and affect everyone's life equally.

Just impossible. Even gay people will reject this one. What's this?

Muafrika2:
In my opinion the best Nigerian City should be Port Harcourt. It's more organized from the photos here. Way better than Lagos and Abuja which are known to be the major cities.

Port-harcourt (Rivers state) are trying, but they are still lagging behind Lagos state and Abuja in terms of development, security and infrastructure. Compared to how rich they are they are making snail progress.
Yes they have a great city plan and structure, but the govt is not meeting up to the population explosion of the city and the suburbs are really suffering unlike Lagos state which is meeting up to it's population explosion and the suburbs are experiencing wonderful development and integration.
PH (Rivers state) is supposed to be challenging Lagos now in many aspects considering the large allocation and internally generated revenue of the state, but that is not happening.

iblawi:
http://www.premiumtimesng.com/regional/north-central/226024-abuja-light-rail-project-90-completed-minister.html


Lagos state light rail

Rivers State light rail

Cross river state light rail

Abuja light rail

Ogun state light rail.

This is lovely from the state governments. Am sure more States government will start there own light rail soon as Nigeria moves out of recession.

But seriously why are some states making progress and others are not? My State of origin Plateau, you can never find in all these developmental endeavours, what about Delta state my home and residence state, with all the money in the state yet no major infrastructural development.
Some states like Zamfara, Yobe, Kwara, Kogi, Ekiti, Ebonyi, Taraba, Bauchi e.t.c, you only hear them for bad news.

Our state govts are not really accountable to anyone, maybe that's the reason some governors joke with the lives of the millions of their citizens.

arinzeejikonye:
Its difficult taking pics of everywhere from a spot,the city is really beautiful,it is expanding by every second,and will match enugu soon,so coal city got to watch her back honestly,i went for nigerian centenary quiz competition,that was my first visit to enugu,the city was very beautiful,but comparing the both can be very difficult,both are serene,orderly,with nice aesthetics and enviromental ambiance

Iblawi

Seriously i must say i am amazed at Enugu and Owerri. My friends and family members who went there (mostly for youth service) usually come back with remarkable experiences of not just the place but the people there.

It's sad that these places are underrated in Nigeria. Most times when we think of Igbo land in Nigeria, the first thing we think of is Onitsha and Aba (i dont mean both places are not great, they are economic giants), but this image of desperate and hussling people with dirty environment always comes to mind and we tend to generalize Igbo land for that and some of us even dread stepping our feet there.

I must say i love this pattern of the South-east Nigerua whereby some cities are meant for economic purposes with lots of trading and manufacturing (Aba and Onitsha) while others (Owerri and Enugu) are meant for the educated and enlightened civil servants.

However, i think it would have been better if these attributes were merged into one city. It would have been very lovely to visit Aba and see all the wonderful manufacturing and trading done in one part of the city and also move a little away from that part and see another part with so much beauty and class like Enugu/owerri, so that while one part is generating income for the state/city, another is serving like a tourist destination or welcoming area for the less business minded folks who prefer a serene environment. Such a city would definitely be an international destination.

My fear in this kind of system practiced in the East is that states like Anambra and Abia will be very rich (which of course they are), but states like Enugu and Imo would be less financially buoyant and may not even be able to meet to their full capacity of becoming great tourist destinations due to lack of internally generated funds. I think this may be the reason why no city in the SE is very populated and cosmopolitan. (i may be wrong though).
What do you think?

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MtuMsuper:
A very unhelpful and dare i say even nonsense argument You seem to suggest that a country is more likely to succeed if they have a small population and conversely say that they should also be excused for a lack of success if they have a large one. By your reasoning there should be a median or average population which should be the success point ,to put it for lack of a better term. And what would be this mysterious population size?
Ps: Having visited both Namibia and Botswana, i feel the ingredients for their success is actual and deliberate efforts and programmes by govt to uplift the micro and macro aspects of the personal and national economy. And a respect of systems and institutions by both the govt and citizens. For instance, how would you explain the huuuuge difference in attitude to littering by the average Namibian or Motswana to the average Nairobian? One can even chip in with differences in temperament as well, but that's not the point. The level of social sophistication in place counts for alot in terms of tbe choices people make in a place and their overall wellbeing.
The rich gulf arab countries have demonstrated WISDOM in how they use their hydrocarbon wealth. They have put in long term measures to ensure they remain prosperous nations even after the oil runs out, as it must​.They are very busy developing their transport systems and the UAE is now an undisputed global aviation and financial hub. These things bring $, jobs and skills into the economy, bro. What wisdom have the oil rich african nations demonstrated in the past and even now with regard to how they use their oil wealth​? While Norway might not be an appropriate example, at least they have demonstrated wisdom in how they use their oil wealth. This is the wikipedia entry for their national sovereign wealth fund : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway . The point is oil wealth should have been used to build water supply and sewer systems, affordable housing, roads, develop agriculture, stimulate non oil/gas economic sectors and stimulate overall economic growth, just to mention a few. Sadly, it hasn't and Nigeria and Angola are Africa's best examples of poorly used oil wealth. While they should be leading us in all indicators, they are proudly holding the rear end, and producing the likes of Diezani and Isabel dos Santos. Shame! You cant buy wisdom at your local shop, now can you?

Enforcement of law in a smaller country is easier than in a larger country.
Why is it that some states in US are very rich while others are seriously struggling? Forget the overall statistics you see for USA. When you break down the various Human Index statistics for USA into her various states, you will observe the great difference in the welfares of the different states.
Due to the largeness of large countries, a single centre cannot always hold the nation compared to smaller countries where the centre can easily control everyone.

Take Nigeria for instance, if you divide Nigeria into North and South and take seperate welfare statistics, you will find out that the margin btw Southern and Northern Nigeria is very high because Southern Nigerian states are making more significant progress.
Infact, if Southern Nigeria is considered to be a country of it's own, it will be best or at least among the best in Africa in most welfare Index statistics, but Northern Nigeria keeps dragging Nigeria backward and there is little or nothing Southernerns can do about it.
Take for instance poverty rate in Nigeria as a whole is about 35%, but for Southern Nigeria alone, it is just 19%. National literacy rate is about 65%, but for the South it is as high as 90%.
Even within Southern Nigeria, Lagos state has distinguished itself from the others. Lagos state (if considered a country of it's own) is a middle income economy just like South Africa, Brazil, China, Malaysia e.t.c not to talk of other Human/State index statistical analysis where it can even surpass all these aforementioned nations.
All these are happening because the Lagos state govt on their own have made their state to work.

For instance it might be assumed that Nigeria is dirty as a country, but there are some states in Nigeria that are as clean as London and their state govts emphasize on sanitation and the people are very neat. When i first visited 2 neighbouring southern states in Nigeria, Cross river and Akwa Ibom state, infact i wondered if i was still in Nigeria. These people are very neat and their cities are as clean as Los Angeles. I hardly saw a paper on the floor and there were waste bins all over Calabar city, Gardens and Garden parks everywhere on the roadside, very calm, civilized and law abiding citizens and many more, but most times these people are not really judged for who they are as a people or state, the national image which is formed by many states that refuse to work on their people now defines them.

My point in all these is that for larger nations, the centre cannot actually hold the whole country together or enforce policies that will make the whole country progress and develop at one pace, different regions or states develop independently according to their state policies and government. At least, that is the kind of govt practiced in Nigeria and most large nations like India e.t.c.
I was interracting with some Indians some days ago and that was when i knew that the kind of poverty you see on TV in India is mostly limited to northern India. Most South Indian states are quite more wealthy ( e.g Tamil Nadu), more educated, more progressive and most of the ground braeaking medical research and activities you see from India affecting the world is from Southern India while many in the north keep on using religion and caste system to keep a large part of their population in poverty and perpetual backwardness.

Assuming Tamil Nadu state in India (with about 80 million people) was a nation of it's own, they would have been making progress comparable with the likes of Malaysia and Indonesia.

This is exactly the same reason why it is easier for smaller countries to progress than Larger ones!
This does not mean we should not give smaller countries credit for their progress, absolutely not, just that it is easier for them.

I did not even talk about the homogenous part. These arabic countries share one language, religion and ethnicity. Smaller countries usually have homogeinity which easily allows them to function and make decisions as one people unlike in a place like Nigeria where a President or Lawmaker from Yoruba nation extraction will bring a policy which is aimed at bringing national development, but most of the Hausa state govts and lawmakers will reject it because it is against the ethics of their religion and ethnicity. In such a case, there is nothing the yoruba christian or yoruba people can do about it because State govts have their autonomy to a large extent and make their own decisions.

If you don't get this point, then i really wonder what to tell you.

TayserMahiri:
You confused me a bit I thought you were a Nigerian. Or is Nigerien for someone from Niger? Nonetheless, I agree with you completely.
However, there is nothing to feel embarrassed about however poor you are, the best thing is to appreciate yourself. The positivity with comparing is that it can change people's approach towards getting things done. Besides, it can foster togetherness when people get to understand each other.

I must say I didn't have any idea that Malawi is in any kind of turmoil. How media is skewed leaving some smaller nations in perpetual darkness. How I wish we could embrace Swahili and end the mind colonization. Either ways, always optimistic

Yes, people from Niger republic are Nigeriens which can be confused for Nigerians.

Malawi is one of the poorest countries in the world.
Take out your time to analyze all the African countries one after the other, check their literacy rates, poverty rates, maternal and infant mortality rates, GDP per capital, wealth distribution, HDMI, starvation rates e.t.c and you can ascertain the level of progress of such countries.
I have done that and have been able to asceetain the level of progress of all African countries.

Individual poverty is different from National poverty. No way you can console yourself over national poverty.

MtuMsuper:
You sir have fallen into a trap most posters on this thread have fallen into viz. posting an endless stream of physical development, that has been falsely construed to be the only form of development. I also thought you would fall into the 'Lagos GDP is bigger than kenya and ghana combined' trap. My take on this thread is that alot of nigerians are surprised and taken aback by the response of kenyans. My personal life experience is that alot of nigerians in other african countries love rubbishing everything about their hosts and constantly compare the place with back home, and with that, you haven't disappointed. Kenyans are also quite guilty of this too. I was once in the cities of Windhoek, Namibia and Harare,Zimbabwe and i can assure you both are far far more livable and peaceful than Nairobi and i had to tell of my fellow kenyans who tried to downgrade those cities because their service delivery left alot to admire especially in Windhoek. You sir, need to travel to Africa and see for yourself the real state of things is NOT uniform . Alot of things work in alot of african countries, its just that good stories about africa don't sell. Go see the good work that Botswana govt has dobe for the social upliftment of its citizens- where else apart from SA and Gaddaffis Libya would govt give monthly stipend to its most vulnerable citizens, not to mention functioning health systems. Most of Equatorial africa is a mess though, and this has got everything to do with them having govts that are just sales offices of western capital and not their citizens representative. However, i can assure you alot of kenya is changing, and the sentiment here is bullish. This is due to a massive construction boom changing the face of the country and people's fortunes. The place you saw in 2009 is not the same now.


What you need to address is REAL development. What is your take on the comparative state between the two countries mentioned in this thread on known development indicators :
Access to primary health care,
child and maternal mortality,
productivity,
access to clean water,
access to sanitation,
access to electricity,
life expectancy,
life expectancy at birth(how many kids survive to age 5),
security,
access to formal education,
prevalence of preventable diseases,

etc etc

That's what we should be discussing here.

Oga, the truth is that we cannot use African countries like Namibia or Botswana to judge or be a model for other African countries because these countries are extremely small, just with only 2 million people! yet with so much natural rescources.

You cannot expect a country like Tanzania with tens of millions of people to make the same progress with a country like Botswana with only 2 million people when you give them the same land area and land rescources. Just like the gulf arab nations that have seen great advancement today because of the large oil deposits they have coupled with their small populations unlike Nigeria with probably the same amount of oil, but times 100 of their populations. This is why China is still considered a developing nation even though it is now competing with the world's most powerful nation (USA) in many aspects.

This is why we need to work harder and put in more efforts just as China is doing to carry all it's people along and meet up at the same time. At the end of the day, the glory, influence and prestige that comes as a larger working nation will be enjoyed.
This is why a developed USA is more influential than a developed Canada or a developed Norway.
A developing and working China is more influential than a developing and working Malaysia.

TayserMahiri:
You know what saddens me about all these breakups is that I am the kind of guy who hopes for a united Africa. I know it sounds crazy but would be good to merge all those talents and strengths.
I have a very good idea of the disputes back there, my naija friends told me. Actually they talk about it in an even worse way. But I know Naija will come through all that.

These are the kind of things we should be talking about here instead of embarrassing ourselves here comparing our 3rd world and low income cities for the world to see.

I support Black Africa (Subsaharan Africa) to come together as one nation of people united by a single lingua franca (african based language) just like China united the over 1 billion people who speak different languages under one country China with Mandarin as a unifying language.

I feel sad when i see countries like mine and yours (Kenya) making progress while our brothers like SouthSudanese, Congolese, Nigeriens, Malawians e.t.c are facing the worst political instabilities, wars, dictators, famine, starvation and are not making progress in any way. Whether we like it or not, their sorry states continually rub off on us as we are of the same race, the average European, Chinese or Arab cannot tell us apart.
In a unified Black Africa, we will try to progress at the same pace, carrying each other along.

I wish a language like Swahili (which is undoubtedly the most promoted African language lingua franca) to unite all Black Africans to make us speak with one voice.
Just as China brought out the Chinese race from sinking in continous disgrace by uniting to foster develoment, i strongly believe we can also bring out the Black race from being an object of worldwide ridicule.

Thank God for rising African nations and economic giants like Nigeria, South Africa, Kenya (i cannot include north-africans because most of them see us just as Europeans or Arabs see us).
We need to work harder to develop our own nations well respectively in unity, before we can mobilise ourselves cos 2 poor or blind people can never help each other.

Muafrika2:
Most of what you label "CITIES" in Nigeria would be referred to as TOWNS in Kenya. There are strict standards here for labelling urbanized centers. Infrastructure, size and administration.

If we called every urban center with afew high rise building a city like am seeing is the norm in Naija, ... let's say we just wont.

An area like Owerri with all the structures you are seeing there and about 500k-1million people and it cannot be called a city? Tell us exactly what is a city. Owerri is not like those small towns you have in Kenya with only 100k people and few modern houses. It has been a governent administrative capital city for decades now, continously been developed by the state to meet up to standard.

arinzeejikonye:
Owerri

Owerri is really such a beautiful Nigerian city which is really underrated in Nigeria. This will be the first South-east city i would love to spend some time.

Congrats Efe. Plateau state is actually a home for all.

danjumakolo:
He is educating you about how an ideal Muslim country should be.
Do you know the GDP of

Malaysia
Indonesia
Kuwait
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Brunei
UAE
Iran

These are Muslim countries that even you wanna go.

So basically SANUSI is saying its difficult for sharia to thrive where the politians are hell corrupt.But in any case,its better than nothing as 99% of children who are 18 years n below in zamfara does not know the beer parlour or the brothel which was in place those days in zamfara.

These countries encouraged literacy in western and advanced education for their populations. What are the literacy rates of core-northernerns?

timilehin95:
I'm not a MUSLIM oo, but Dubai, UAE, Qatar proved u wrong.

But in nigerian settings u are right

The countries have a lot of oil and they are very small in population hence their great progress (although they also contributed in their own way).

ihatesycophant:
Sanusi Lamido (Emir) just need 20 Northern elites to join him in this campaign and there will be revolution and transformations in the 21 Northern States. I pray he sees supporters.

Pls never you include the middlebelt and core north together. The middlebelt is making serious progress and we have left the core-north behind. Go and check our literacy rates, Jamb and Waec registration statistics and poverty rates. We have left the core north behind and we are moving forward, we will soon catch up with the south.

Folksyharry:
It looks like chucky's ancestral home.

LoL

fratermathy:
I have already answered all that you listed over again on this thread.

Like bigfrancis21, you are speaking from the perspective of non-Urhobo and you should.


Leave me to wallow in my ignorance, if you see my perspective as being ignorant. It's my choice.

Speaking about LGAs as if population correlates with number of LGAs or states!

I am speaking from the perspective of a neutral Deltan, i was born and bred in Warri, Delta state but not fro the state and witnessing the past and even continued series of crisis which has rocked Delta state, i embarked on a fact finding and made my conclusions.

Population does not correlate with states but according to you, 'homeland population can be used to ascertain ethnic population', so calculate the homeland populations of those groups i mentioned, Tivs, Kanuris and Gbagyis and see that Urhobo does not come close.

As for Igalas, Idomas, Nupes and Igbirras, they don't have a large homeland population because their homeland is not developed at all but they constitute large populations in Northern/Western and parts of Eastern Nigerian cities hence i said they could likely outnumber or equal urhobos, but they clearly have as much or even more political power than Urhobos in Nigeria.

Take for instance, Nupes (and kanuris) are the only minority groups who have produced governors in 3 different states in Nigeria. Nupes have produced governors of Niger, Kwara and Kano states, they (and Gbagyis) always produce 2 senators in every political tenure unlike Urhobos who only produce 1 (Delta central).
So, however you choose to ascertain population of ethnic groups in Nigeria, there are at least 2-3 middlebelt/northern minority groups ahead of you Urhobos. Infact, most Kanuris and Tivs will feel insulted being compared to Urhobo-Isokos, both tribes can only be compared to Ijaws and maybe Ibibio-Efik-Annang (if they are one).
This is why i always make reference to the last ethnic census of 1963.

Datazone:
Oga keep your dirty mouth shut before you misinform the public. RMD and Fathia Balogun are not Urhobos. If you say this thing in public you may get the beating of your life. That's how you twist and rewrite people's history for them and you create problems for your tribe in the future.

I dont know about RMD but as for Fathia Balogun i think she is Urhobo, she said it with her own mouth in the 2015 AMVC awards.
If you can get a medium to watch that award show again, pls do watch it and when she came out to receive a certain award (from yoruba film category i believe) she confirmed that she was an urhobo girl. I myself was very shocked and surprised, many of us always assumed that she was yoruba.

Many Deltans (Urhobo-Isokos mostly) who settled in Yoruba lands decades ago gave their children yoruba names and many were yorubanized. I also had a hostel mate like that during university whose name was Funmilola, the day she told me that she was an Isoko girl from Delta, i was shocked because even her father had a yoruba name, he speaks native Ijebu as well as Ijebu natives and married an ijebu woman according to her. Her grandparents were the ones who migrated from Isoko, Delta state and today almost her whole family have been Yorubanized (the long explanation was unnecessary though, i hope u get the point am trying to pass).

omoharry:
Warri boys head too hot abeg..why wont all the influential sons and daughters of warri stay away and invest in Lagos when Warri has become an abode for kidnappers and robbers..Warri need to be safe before any meaningful investment by individuals can take place there.

Well, i guess you are very correct with this.
This issue of kidnapping has really affected development in the South-South region as many of the illustrious sons and daughters of the region are afraid to come back home and invest. For God's sake, see big cities/Urban areas like Port harcourt, Warri and Benin with so much potentials to rival Lagos yet very little investments from her people.
These are the kind of issues the ethnic unions need to be fighting, but they rather prefer to go about irrelevant issues.

bigfrancis21:
So many misconceptions going on in this thread.

1) from my own research Warri seems to originally been attributed to the Jekris or Itshekiris. That is the original landmass known as Warri or 'iwerre'. However, it has growwn today to a larger city incorporating towns/lands from neighboring tribes.

2) Urhobo-Isoko cannot be the 5 largest tribe in Nigeria. Frathermarthy lumped together urhobo and isoko as one to bump up the population to 5th place but these two groups see themselves differently. Efiks/Ibibios and all Ijaw groups would have to come first in terms of numbers, and maybe some middle-belt groups before Urhobo-Isoko lumped together. Separating both, Urhobo alone may stand at number 10, no more than no 20 in terms of population.

3) Frathermarthy, isn't it interesting that you're trying desperately to claim Isokos (who see themselves differently) as Urhobos but few days ago paraded a thread on NL on how Aniomas are different from Igbo? Like the English say, you can't eat your cake and have it. Isokos declared their independence from Urhobo several decades back. Unfortunately, that's what it is. On the eastern side, Ika and Ukwuani, although Igbo-speaking, may identify as a separate ethnic group. They have their rights to self-determination.

You are quite correct with your facts.

There are always 2 sides to a coin afterall, just that some people always choose to tell a single part completely ignoring the other.

First of all, there is no way one can talk about Warri without including the itsekirs who are arguably the owners of majority of the main Warri city which later developed into Uvwie and Udu urhobo areas.

Secondly, i wonder how Urhobos with just 8 or 10 LGAs can ever match groups like Kanuris that dominate 2 entire populated states who always produce 2 governors and 5 senators every political tenure, with millions of people in Niger republic and Chad who claim Nigeria or Tivs with 14 largely homogenous populated LGAs in Benue and others in Nasarawa, Taraba, Cross river and even Cameroon. Or a tribe like Gbagyi that dominate about 24 LGAs in Niger, Kaduna, FCT and Nasarawa states.
I even doubt Urhobos will be more than Igalas, Ebiras, Idomas and Nupes, just that middlebelt/northern minority groups do not make ethnic noises because the old northern regional govt which they were born into never promoted ethnicity but regionalism.

We also know that Ibibio-Efik-Annang are divided, but if he could join Urhobo-Isoko together as one, i wonder why he would not join the former together as one, when we even know that within the Urhobo, many Okpe people claim a distinct identity from Urhobos.
He even claimed that Urhobo-Isoko cluster could likely be more than Ibibio-Efik-Annang cluster which everyone knows cannot be possible when the latter have a populated entire state like Akwa Ibom and a third of another state Cross river to themselves.

I understand that as individuals we may love our ethnic groups so much, but i don't think we should go as far as twisting facts to achieve that. @Fratermathy

fratermathy:
How can you be citing a census of 1963 when we had one in 2006?

Although it was a general census, Urhobo population can be estimated based on the population of all the local government areas/senatorial districts that we occupy.

By the way, this argument is totally irrelevant to my writeup. I only cited the authority available to me and that which I subscribe to. If you subscribe to another authority, that is fine.

Ethnicity was never part of 2006 census that's why i made reference to the last ethnic census which was done in Nigeria.
Also, you really cannot use the homeland population to conclude the population of an ethnic group cos some groups migrate more than the other and some areas have more settlers than the other.
Talking about population of homelands, do u know where Kanuri territory for instance cover? Kanuris dominate Borno and Yobe state (only them produce the governors there), they are also a significant minority in Bauchi and Jigawa states, not to talk of the millions of Kanuris in Niger republic and Chad who enter Nigeria at will. If you access the size of political areas covered by these groups i mentioned, you will not doubt my assertion. I have lived in both the north and the south long enough, hence i can do the comparison to an extent.

fratermathy:
You have spoken well bro. Warri needs development first. However, I am of the opinion that if something big can be situated in Warri (even if it's just its own share of the entertainment industry), more attention will follow. The government is not seeing the potentials in Warri now because nothing is happening.

I really hope and pray for the day when Warri or anywhere near it will regain its place as a capital, be it in a new Delta State or an Urhobo State! I know it will happen someday.

Nigerian govt does not really care about entertainment and when it comes to development, all they care about is Abuja. Most state govts are failures in Nigeria and sadly, Delta state even with all it's wealth is not meeting up.....coupled with the tribal and political divisions in Delta which made things worse.

I think the only way out for Warri is for the elites, both succesful business people and entertainers to come back home and invest in the city.
Delta central/South have very rich and influential people but most will prefer to invest in Lagos and Abuja. I really wonder why they don't see potentials in Warri.

Chances of state creation appear very unlikely. So many leaders are ok with the status quo or are just too weak to work for a change of govt divisions. Until we have a great political system change in Nigeria, nothing new can ever be done, afterall since the last military rule, there has been no change to our govt divisions whatsoever.
However i think if the governor of Delta state is from Warri axis, he will give more priority to the city.
Delta state is just very urbanised (every urban area demanding attention) and due to the ethnic divisions and loyalties in the state, every governor will prefer to develop his own town/area.

fratermathy:
Urhobo's position is well documented in numerous academic sources.


Anything you are saying now should be with cited authority.

The last ethnic census that was done in 1963 recognised well the larger population of Kanuris, Tivs and even Nupes ahead of Urhobos. You can verify. Since then, we have not had an ethnic census. So i wonder what statistics made Urhobo 5th largest in Nigeria.

Wonderful thread afterall.

Warri is a city for minority tribes in Nigeria but the name and influence it has in Nigeria is so high and wonderful. Thanks to the Urhobos-Isokos, Itsekiris and Ijaws for doing this.

I also truly wish Warri to become an entertainment hub in Nigeria. Everything must not be centred in Lagos afterall.
However it really takes a very developed place to attract the settling of succesful artistes. Warri since it's not the state capital has been disadvantaged to an extent in that aspect. Only govt effort can take Warri to developed heights in order to compete nationally, if not, all Warri stars and talents will keep on relocating to Lagos and investing all there. It's quite sad.

Amarabae:
I don't think that Urhobos or Isokos are not the 5th largest tribe in Nigeria.
Kanuris are more populated than Urhobos.
Btw Nice thread.

Correct. OP fratermathy take note. Urhobos cannot be the 5th largest ethnic group. No way are Urhobos more than Kanuris or Tivs. Even tribes like Nupe, Gbagyi and Igala likely outnumber Urhobo.

chkil0:
thats absolutely false , have you a source ?? show them , i have seen the genetics studies in maghreb , their DNA is mostly berbers , yeh berbers the ethnic group indigenous to North Africa from prehistory Neolithic . and had powerful civilisation Numidia , Carthage ect ....

you can find easily a genetic composition study about tunisians , they found : 88% of berbers genes , 5% europeens genes, 4% arabic genes and only 2 % from Western and Central Africa combined.

1st pic tunisians genetic composition

2nd egyptian genetic composition

source : https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

You are saying a completely different thing from me. I am talking of the genetic markers like the E1b1. Berbers, Subsaharan Africans and Horn Africans have closer genetic markers which are different from European and Arab genetic markers.
I am talking of molecular biology.