₦airaland Forum

Amazing that the Word says the Spirit is subject to the Prophet but supposed believers say the Spirit throws you around to prove its power.

Which should we trust - Bible or "pastors"?

And I really love that understanding that the spirit "landed" on the Soldiers & imbued them with power to arrest Jesus How Spiritual!?

Further details of the "gospel" (according to Joagbaje)

Lying, deceit & manipulation are allowed since you're no longer a sinner
You have a right to insult others only if you're on his side else you're a sinner
Chris Oyakilome is always right
Chris Oyakilome must not be queried

@Frosbel:

Aside self-denial, such people utilize aggression also. Which is why the emptyheadamaka will dare to call "YOU" of all posters, "confused" or a "deceiver"? I mean, talk of dark-gray calling white "black" and seeing black (jo) beside him and keeping quiet about him.

Anyways, of most importance in the identification of any Christian or ministry is the fruit they produce. TBJ seems to have this seeming "love" which he displays with his giving and which is commendable. But why would anyone broadcast and actively advertise such if the motive is truly love?

CEC with its band(s) and gangs of thieves, 419, immoral people shows fruit suited to cults. David Koresh (head of another cult who ended up seeing himself as the last messenger) also had this same manner - violence (as seen when journalists are assaulted in a "christian" church), multiple bed-partners etc and he ended up causing the WACO massacre.

Here on NairaLand, the representatives of Chris Oyaks are known as a group of lying, boastful, deceitful people headed by a pastor who will twist, lie, manipulate and support evil just to push his agenda. That FRUIT more than anything else proves this "church" is a cult

Are lying, boasting and claiming same status with Christ part of this "glorious and successful life"?

BTW, If there is "destiny", why praise yourself for "making impact" or insult others for having "poverty mentality" since it was "destined"?

Did Jesus hide the hypocrisy of the Religious leaders in His time?

Did Paul?

Did Peter?

Did the Holy Spirit hide husband and wife and discuss "spiritually mindedly" with them?

What was Christ's correction? "You Vipers", "You white-washed sepulchres", "you murderers".

Please deny the above and tell me whether I should be "politically correct" or speak the truth like those above did?

Spiritual minded ko, Tithes and first-fruit ni!

What do you call somebody who uses multiples Ids to support himself i.e. he says something as Joagbaje then logs out, logs back in as Akhozem and then says as Akhozem ---> "Joagbaje is right - I respect his post". Is that not deceit? Is it not a Deceiver who actively plans and implements such?

What do you call somebody who says do not pray through Jesus Name in one thread then says the opposite in another thread? Is that not a liar who manipulates situations to suit himself?

What do you call somebody who holds on only to matters that can bring money into his pocket and spurns justice for the poor? Is that someone endued with love? What of if that person is boastful too? Is he showing the fruit of Christ?

Are the Fruit-less, deceivers, liars, manipulators and love-less people BRETHREN with Christians?

Run away from replying all you want - makes no difference. It is patently obvious that you're a fake, a dishonest person, a liar, a boastful ignorant person whose theology starts and stops with only what another man says. What happened to Berean understanding? What happened to "search the scriptures" YOURSELF? When did it become change God's Word to suit yourself? Or listen to another man's interpretation solely?

Your posts and threads only show truth is starting to bite you and more is coming - soon, people from CE will get text messages asking them to come see NL and know the disgrace their leaders are simply because they know nothing and have insincere motives of self glory and personal gain/grandeur.

And stop with the noise - what impact are you making aside noise and inside your walls where you all scream and pat yourselves on the back?

@dare2think:

What you pointed out above is significant - when they insult us, Jo is fine with it. When we do same, we are carnal and he asks "are you born again"? This is hypocrisy and he does not seem to understand that anyone on the receiving end will definitely see him as a hypocrite and lash back at him.

They have this thing which to to insult you snidely (you are not born again, you have baby teeth, your revelation/understanding is childish). When you use real life examples to PROVE it is they are are shallow and worldly, the refrain becomes what birthed this thread - "you should not attack us or else you are evil and disobeying God cos we should hide our faults from the public". Yeah right - like Jesus hid the hypocrisy of the Religious leaders in His time, right? I still believe they deliberately assigned that rat newmi to follow me around just to rile me up. It was whist in that duty that he made the mistake of disclosing his true financial picture even while calling other people "poverty stricken" But when you now turn that back and disclose that his financial state, they say you are carnal. Its like sticking your finger in my mouth and complaining that I bit down and its an art they seem to have gotten so used to that they don't even see the hypocrisy in it.

One great example of absolute hypocrisy here on NL occurred when Joe said the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man was a true story. When the story was proved to be allegorical, what the CE gang (that is when we started calling them a gang) did was to all come together and scatter the thread in the most despicable way ever - since that day, Jo has promised 4 times on and off NairaLand to go back, study our submissions and agree publicly PLUS apologise if convinced. Of course, he has NOT found AND will NEVER find such time (that is not convenient) - that shows pride.

So now we find hypocrisy is added to pride is added to shallowness (not even knowing scripture as above). Add LYING like when it was proved that he had multiple Identities supporting themselves in topics - the most amazing display of deceit I remember here.

Now please tell me - Liars, Hypocrites and ignorant (shallow) people! ! ! Are such candidates for God's Heaven? Are these the signs that follow a "pastor" after God's Heart? What is wrong with keeping quiet at times rather than boasting then turning yourself into a victim when called out on your lies/shallowness?

This is someone who will insist as above that he wants scriptural analysis and yet when it is done, he scatters the thread. When you talk about fruit showing from them, they change the issue to "Are themselves your servants that you judge?" Yet he will in the same breath tell you that you are not a Christian - is that not judging? When the heat becomes too much, he then says " he prefers not to respond to such as you" and seemingly assigns someone to follow you around fighting you so that when you respond, they can then say "see him fighting - he's not a Christian".

Is that brethren? When did Lions and sheep become brethren? When did armed robbers and their victims become brethren? Somebody please tell me

@thehomer:

EVERY portion of your response is wrong and I believe deliberately so because your worldview compels you to be insincere once Christianity is involved. Seems putting down reigion is the only way you get a mental hard-on. My sequence - (MINE)

I have a God! He has given rules AND multiple examples of scenarios where I see others (likely better than I am) having no recourse but to save a life or such like by telling an untruth). I have also being provided a mind and intellect AND a self-preservation instinct.

I use mind and intellect based on the principles of self-preservation.

YOUR problem is obvious - you see Religion and its practice as necessarily requiring stupidity and a robotic mentality. Whist you will see that with many here and in real life, if you wished to be sincere, you will have realized that quite a number of us (Christians) here OPPOSE such people and do not consider them sincere thinking Christians. But such make it easy for you to mock so you prefer their worldview to honesty.

Jesus "disappeared" through the mob a number of times before His eventual "surrender"! You would explain those disappearances as lies or cowardice, right?

thehomer:
In other words, you think God will find your justifications for lying adequate? In that case, he will also need to find the justifications of people not believing in him adequate.

Where in my post did you get this tripe?

You are obviously intelligent enough to have seen my caveat - under one set of circumstances, yes, I (ME, MOI) will justify the liar to the wife beater. In another set of circumstances and in his shoes, I'd beat the moisture off his damper. I speak/spoke for myself - where did you get the above?
Or how does that or any other stuff I wrote become me standing for God and deciding He will justify anything? If your intellect is poised only for finding rubbish, please find other victims for it

^^ here comes the self back patting - you guys must be really saddened to try to boost your sorry selves so cheaply.

The souls you win are easily detailed in the Word as being converted to twice the children of damnation that yourselves are
Your giving is also explained as that of the proud pharisee in the market

When push comes to shove, the truth ALWAYS comes out that you are more mouth than action and that its the critics redeeming Christ's Name before the World. Christ Himself was the greatest critic EVER - think about that and learn

The issue of Peter and Paul NOT agreeing is a strange and totally manipulative one! Paul and Peter may not have agreed on a very few minor matters but each knew the other was a sincere honest Christian who wasn't in it for money.

The division we are talking of here, on the other hand, is between sincere God seeking but imperfect Christians and the thieves whom these people serve and follow who take the Gospel as a self-serving business and who they wish to protect by swinging the "touch not my anointed baton" around. Actually now, its more of "it is not your servant but another man's servant" that they try to use.

But no one here is complaining about missionaries, are they? No one is complaining about "servant" preachers, are they? Its only the thieves we're complaining about

AND NO ONE IS ANSWERING - WHO LAID HANDS ON OYAKS and ordained the spiritual vagabond (according to Joe's definition) aside HIMSELF?

You guys are taking this to a while new level

Seriously though, its unlikely any of these dudes would take payment in kind - they love money too much

Joagbaje:
Please don't let us go there .why are we against ministers. The term  MOG or Man Of God has always refer to ministers . Every christian is a minister.  But MOG  refers to an ordained minister.

^^^

frosbel:
Please can you show me in the bible ,  scripture to back up this unusual statement ?

While Christ Himself said "call no man master, call no man teacher, call no man father for you have only the One Father in Heaven, the One Teacher in the Holy Spirit and the One Master in The Almighty", they have created their own devices.

It was not for nothing that the Word says "they honor me with their mouths but their hearts are far from me".

Simple truth is they esteem their traditions higher than the Word of God.

These are the Religious teachers of today, DIRECTLY DESCENDED from the Pharisees


@dare2think/spamdare:

Your question hits at the heart of the matter - Chris Yaks is a spiritual vagabond who ordained himself. Or well, maybe his worshipers here can tell us who ordained him and when/where because they will say God. Interestingly, my dog was also ordained and before him too that same day. It was my dog's piss that was used as anointing oil for him when they ordained him

Obviously, these people don't even know what tongues is. --- gibberish indeed ------

Charlatans

Lions and sheep both belong to the "animal" kingdom - that does not make them brethren.

The Apostles of Christ AND the Pharisees/Sadducees were all Jews but were not brethren

I am not brethren with a lazy criminal who sees the Gospel as a means to self gain

@Martian:

This is unfair and you are definitely off the hook here with your submission.

How dare you insult the entire comity of dunces by comparing them to Jo and co? Your saving grace is the headache you developed

@dorox:

Nobody will leave them alone

^^ And what is "fresh air" doing as chief security officer of the nation? What does it bode for his anti-corruption stance if a man accused of stealing Billions and now not possessing of any immunity and not deserving of federal security since he has no official post, is being secured by federal agents who were ready to use lethal force on other federal agents just to protect him from being questioned.

Fresh - NOT! More like FETID. Because all the President had to do was order the guards to stand down if he truly wants accountability. But he's obviously decided to be president FOR the vultures against Nigeria, not president of/for Nigeria

^^ The above is sad & embarrassing.

What if the man did nor "repent"? What is your assurance that it was genuine repentance and not an effusion due to gratitude & only mouth deep. Finally, how did the priest know his lie would be justified by repentance when deciding to lie?

Truth has come to stay.

Fakes, go find honest work

@thehomer:

I sincerely believe the "motive" caveat I mentioned handles how God will look at our actions. While it seems like the same answer DeepSight has detailed here, please remember that the basic difference between my understanding of God and that of DeepSight is that I see God as a personal emotional being, ergo (for me), feelings tend to suggest understanding of circumstances and justification (or lack thereof) based on such.

And I propose that God is not subject to the same laws we are. The definition of the title negates such obeisance to laws or need for such.

@inedi:

^^ Is your own definition of the gospel of the Lord Jesus  defined as giving to pastors?

@MrBible:

Some missionaries HAVE pentecostal origins/background. So some are Pentecostals.

And like P_AIO says, yes, some can be used of Satan without knowing BUT at least those who do not know have that in their advantage since we all know a few even here on NL who know but for whom the lure of an easy meal outstrips truth, decency and fairness

You're not reading what I write, MrBible.

Plus you forget I'm much more critical than you are of fakes. But I do not think it is right to throw out the baby with the bath water.

While I agree with the Scripture you quote and its meaning, my own point is simple - some people do NOT know. A medical doctor has 2 degrees in medicine - does that mean he can perform brain surgery? All pastors know the scripture but some know more about tithes than others - like Gary Arnold here on NL. Some will know more about evangelism than others, some about prophecy. The only thing all must know is the issue of salvation.

Manmy exist who do not yet know about tithes as much as you do - that does not make them fake. It is ONLY after ALL the information has been presented and they choose to continue that they are fake. My example of missionaries is classic - do you really think a missionary in China could be in it for the money?

The dude musKeeto refers to above is a totally different kettle of fish - gimme a cane and I will whip him till he whimpers in tears like the fat-ass he is

Haba, why are you all attacking Pastor Joe like this - imagine dorox also now calling a whole Bayelsa state pastor a "very small man".

Don't you know Joe Agbaje is perfect? Don't you know he is a god? Don't you know that even when he sins, he is NOT a sinner? Don't you know that he is just as Jesus Christ - infact he is senior to Jesus cos he said Jesus went to Hell and was tortured for 3 days before Jo God had mercy and raised him as the first born again "MAN". Pastor Joe on his own, will not go to hell, will not collect 200, will just go straight to Jail heaven.

You must be very bold to say such about a man that claimed all the above. If he gets angry at you ehn? You go hear wehnnnn

And yep, as Enigma already said, he did say so (only cos Chris said so too - he is striving to be like Chris NOT Christ)

@MrBible:

The purpose of the Christian walk is to become better till perfection comes. Maturity is a stage we get to that helps us discern between real & fake, not only in servants of God but even other matters.

You will meet many true servants of God who have left ALL and are out there on the missionary field. Their focus is so much on evangelism that they do not have the time or inclination to study the issue of tithes as you have done. They may innocently believe that tithes are due to them because of some drivel taught to them earlier that they never had time to study. This would compel them too, to teach the matter as doctrine. These are not satanic agents but innocent people continuing in what they were taught.

I believe that it is only when a man has refused truth (presented to him) and deliberately continues in a lie that he can be called "evil"/"satanic"/etc and even then, we must do so with caution because if such has believed in a lie for 5 days, it would be easy to drop it and accept truth but some have believed these lies for decades. Such ought to be pitied and gradually shown the truth. Human foibles will not allow us accept our life-long beliefs have been wrong especially if they have cost us cash or pride and believe me Brother, the truth about tithes can make someone go crazy - all those things they gave up, the smiling face of that oily looking pastor as he got a few more million last Sunday while we stupidly paid it, etc.

Its not easy - Aggression is a defense mechanism

See who is bandying "Nepios" & who is supporting? One fume-laden dunce and the other, the head of ali-baba's 40 thieves.

ANY HUMAN WHO SAYS NON TITHERS ROB GOD IS A WICKED FAKE, A CRIMINAL AND IS CURSED OF GOD

You've taken the issue too far.

Not all pentecostal preachers are wolves. And even amongst those who preach tithes, not all are criminal - many are innocently wrong and do not have the knowledge that freed you. Please remember that no man is perfect.

Christians GIVE to make other lives better. Which means they ought give "other humans". If anyone says he gives 1/5 to help towards the education of orphans or to a young struggling woman in his area for her education or welfare (so she does not get tempted to sin), I would say "Here is a person after God's Heart".

Such truly has God's Love in them.

But to give 1/10 to another man on the basis of obeying God (which is not true) for whatever purpose is da-ft. Moreso when we see them building useless structures "supposedly" in the name of God when the people under the structure are starving. Moreso when the supposed MOGs live a flashy life to the point of wasting funds on frying their hair. It's ridiculous

@thehomer:

Truth AND lies are based on MOTIVE! I consider it a lie telling my daughter we're going to a party when I know she's going to get a shot at the doctors BUT to spare her the agony of looking forward to pain and crying terrified for half an hour, I will gladly tell it. However, I will stop at a supermarket and get her a few things she loves ahead of getting the shot and after the shot, will get her something she likes again.

Motive!

The Bible details the Almighty requesting a spirit to go provide false information to achieve His own purpose. His own purpose, of course, is considered to be the right. So who am I to be "overly" righteous and cause pain. As long as the motives are based on fairness and eventual truth, to me, its okay.

An innocent liar is guilty of "ignorance". If that is addressed and he refuses to accept truth, then he is a deliberate liar
Deflecting questions may mean 1. he doesn't know 2. He's uncomfortable with disclosure 3. He refuses to lie
Person C is mainly a deceiver - full disclosure goes with truth
How can you blame person D? He answered to the best of his understanding
E is guilty of "alchoholism". Adults are not supposed to lose control (at least not from their tummies - dude is a glutton)
F is innocent but ought not be over-bearing in his secureness
G is already settled above in my earlier post - the first thing in life is self-preservation (even to the point of killing)
H - remove this child from church and mosque and from his parents too
I - immaturity is not a crime (at least he didn't kill) but this is a lie
J is justified

Of course, the above is my own creed. Circumstances may change the justification e.g. if J's wife beater was a dude I could beat the shitt out of and the wife was my sister or daughter - I'd be guilty of assault almost to the point of death rather than a "white" lie!

[b]newmi [/b]really loves prosperity, wealth, money, riches etc etc. Sadly enough, because that is what he worships and not God, God has treated him as He promised He would (with the upright, I will be upright and with the perverse, I will be perverse).

Despite all the noise about poverty mentality, all he fears has come upon him and he lives a wretched life walking half of the way then jumping on okadas to complete his journeys in his wretched existence.

Sad pathetic wretched pauper making empty noises online.

AND the question remains - HOW MANY WEALTH MIRACLES DID JESUS PERFORM?

PS: We do know He actually asked a rich man to give away all his wealth. Why then are the fake men of God not behaving as their "supposed" master said to behave

Today - Some were planted by Chris and some by Joe Agbaje AND they claim they water & make them grow too since they are gods (just like baal)

No wonder 2 year olds are encouraged to want to be like pastor chris

^^^ On the surface, your examples seem to make a strong case for the "special case lie". However, you will realize that both "lies" above are actually not final information i.e. the idea behind them is to allow time heal the wound/damage that harsh truth would "create". They are not final lies as is "GOD SAID SO & SO" which obviously cannot be changed

After your exams, the news would be broken to you and in the same way, the man would later have the truth broken to him.

These are - emotional temporary fibs/lies meant to save a situation - like killing is TOTALLY JUSTIFIED in self defense but reprehensible otherwise