₦airaland Forum

^^ As an addendum to my post above, an EXAMPLE of how God has given each of us a purpose

Some people could be given a special gift to "paint"! That gift could be used to spread the Gospel plus of course, God's gifts bring joy so such gift would also provide more than enough profit to live a good life.

But such person could bury the gift and enter under another person thereby leaving God and accepting Man.

^^ The purpose was clear but let us counter it!

I live in YorubaLand and am trusted/feared/whatever there. So when I speak, Yoruba's listen and usually try to obey me. Let us now suppose I desire to help people in Hausaland. I mean, why not - we all have the same characteristics and needs, don't we?

So I call upon the Yorubas as a leader and tell them that God has told me to tell them that they MUST bring 10 million for the stated purpose. In addition, I inform them that anyone who does not help me fulfill MY OWN DREAM will be cursed by God. I also tell them that I am not the same with them but have a more special relationship with God and thus, nobody else except me can hear from God or understand what He wants - in effect, whatever I say must not be questioned about this bring bring bring.

So they dig to the bottom of their pockets and bring. Some go hungry just to bring and go deeper into poverty. Some enter debt to satisfy me then take other loans to pay the first loan then take another loan to etc. Some commit crime to satisfy me and go to jail. It becomes a competition because they believe that satisfying "me" is the key to satisfying God. It gets so they stop bothering to even try God directly - all that matters to them is nuclearboy.

In so doing, are we still seeing what outsiders are seeing? That my Yoruba people are becoming debtors, are sinning, are turning away from God and replacing Him with me, are lying and going into trouble, becoming criminals etc? Are we seeing what outsiders also see? That the desire to get new converts is making the "current" converts property of Hell and Satan? Because they no longer remember EACH MAN HAS A PURPOSE - what it has become is that they have thrown their own purpose away and made themselves part of my own purpose! In doing so, they have also turned my own purpose into a problem because it looks fine on the outside but is rotting on the inside.

Because I have taken money, I MUST make them feel good. So I start to tell them what they want to hear. Plus I have to live "larger than life" so that they continue to fear/respect/whatever "ME". Otherwise they will question me. So I have to dig into the 10 Million - so 10 Million is no longer enough. So I find another tactic to increase needs to 15 Million. And the circle starts again.

But wait a minute - what happened to my desire to help hausas? Seems to have gotten buried in "churchese", hasn't it? So we go out, give a few people money, take pictures, buy buses to bring people into YorubaLand Church and clap for ourselves because we didn't labor in vain

The complication that ambition brings into our lives is not quantifiable. But we all see it - as an example, it is what makes a politician steal 10 Billion which he cannot utilize.


Deep inside, we all know the problem. It is easy to correct a 2 minute mistake. Correcting a 5 year mistake (like following a creed or belief) is more difficult. What of those who believe they got born-again at 7 and are now 38 following the same creed.  Which is why God HATES pride - it does not allow correction. It cannot bear light. It clings to "Chairman said so" rather than "This is the truth".

A free Gospel has NO encumbrances - you do what God gives you to do. A man, an idea, a cause! No baggage, no extra weight. Jesus did His own. Peter did his. Paul too. These understood WISDOM - God said He would hold His Hand until the good news went round - that was the promise that Jesus gave. Does it have to be in your own generation? Can you do everything? Seed time and harvest - can you make them the same day? "What God has made crooked, who can make straight?" If you think you can move what God holds fast, you're a baby in understanding!

It is the encumbrances (the logistics, the "extras", the "swagger" that cost money, not the Gospel. The Gospel was designed to be based on your light shining and people coming to it. Man to man.

It is NOT a macabre dance on satellite television - impersonal, shallow, fraught with logistics and therefore costing so much that it cancels the news it was meant to spread.

Was JeSus religious? Was Paul religious? Were all the Saints religious?

Can someone show where their focus ever was money or prosperity?

@newmi & joagbaje,

Christianity is about individual lives and not stories.

There exists a "spirit" behind the concept of Christianity. That spirit looks towards the afterlife. Jesus did not care for the prosperity of this world. Same with Peter. Same with Paul. In matter of fact, even old testament prophets saw God as their sole consolation. They worked, ate, lived BUT this world, health, "I be oga" etc? - zero, they neglected such. Imagine if Elijah was going around collecting money from all Israelites simply because he could call down fire? Why didn't he?

So who are the "prosperity" pastors emulating if all those before them didn't chase prosperity? A yoruba song asks "child of God who is lying, who was your example that you follow". So please tell us, why does everyone you claim to follow go in one way but you go in another?? Are you then following them when your choices are different?

I know frosbel will come and defend himself presenting his case.

But I will clarify my stand and if called out, will defend from scripture - "IF"Frosbel says prospering or prosperous people cannot go to Heaven, then he is wrong.

What I am against (and believe Frosbel is saying) is that the Gospel is not about prosperity of the body but of the spirit. Prosperity of the body is an "extra" which is not compulsory. I defend this simply - "the poor will ALWAYS be amongst you" - that is not gist but God's own truth

@Pastor Agbaje:

We WORK and "a workman is entitled to his due wages". If I earn 5 million a day and it is due to my sweat and my brain, it is my due wages. I have right to decide to give 20% or 80% to anyone (church included). There is NO hypocrisy in that.

If I now see a politician stealing 1 million ONLY, that person is a thief even though he stole less than I make. There is NO hypocrisy in calling a spade a spade. If the thief is a Pastor, it is exactly the same - if he's not satisfied with the job, go find another rather than steal. Stealing is the same as 419 or deceit or manipulation. That is the truth that Frosbel is saying.

He works and lives a comfortable life. That does not mean he should be quiet wheb he sees another person lying whether in a deluded idea to "help" God or as a politician.

The hypocrite is who understands the above but twists it to sell a self-profiting agenda.

Its all falsehood being peddled anyway. Frosbel did NOT say people should not give - it is manipulation to collect from people that he stands against but deliberately, fraudsters will change words to suit their agenda.

As long as people decide to give of their freewill, all is fine. Examples abound in scripture where such freewill offerings became too much and people had to be told it was enough. If indeed you believe you are doing "God's" work, leave provision to Him.

Does anyone have disinfectant? A nasty smell of corruption just walked in - dead rotting goats on an okada really smell bad it makes you want to puke

^ you give the impression you know this randy cat - its sad either way. All that needs be done is that we all as men, acknowledge that we are naught but men and thus, remain susceptible to our flesh. But to give an aura of might, power and being "special", many of these people ensnare themselves and then find its impossible to be what they sell - perfect. So they hide and live a double life - holy outside but filthy behind closed doors.

No wonder many big names live in secrecy - so the veneer of respectability and holiness is not destroyed. But in itself, that is disobedience to He who requested light be set on a hill and displayed to show others God's glory.

Sad what we can do to ourselves

@Inesqor » Haba. Why would angels weep at the power being wielded by "anointed" men of God? Know YE not that we (the men of God) shall judge the angels?

@angels - be warned. Any angel that weeps will be sentenced to 15 years in prison with hard labor

^^ God bless you - you knew my mind

^^ I'm sorry but why do you sigh?

The man is a man of God. We must not judge - even if he kills someone, even if he abuses young childrewn, even if he manipulates scripture to make money.

He was "called" by God and is another persons servant so what's our business how many bedfriends he has - how do I know? I know just as I know God called oyedepo to spend Billions on jets while his congregation starves. I know just as I know God called Oyaks to jericurl his hair when the Bible says even women should not give themselves to vanity. I know just as I know God told Odulele that little boys bottoms is not fornication (shebi?) When all natural laws make it a disgusting act.

Please don't sigh, wonder or question. Just accept that since they said they were called of God, they are above the laws of God and cannot be blamed. Plus remember, all these people are giving God a good name with these acts so, , Do not despise their authority

^^ Oh I see. Thought you imagined I was expecting truly sensible stuff here

I apologise. But sincerely doubt we'll need an eraser here. Fear won't allow any "revelation knowledge" assertions. Only watered down stuff like the above which mean nothing will surface now.

^^ check my profile and past posts and you will know

@Kunle

Abeg let us hear from the originators

I think you missed Enigma's meaning. From the days of the Bible, the uncorrupted church seems to have always been the "persecuted" church. Funny isn't it, that once established and powerful, human organisations become political.

In effect, the true church has always been persecuted and maybe because of the persecution, remains pure - such has NO choice at risk of being destroyed. If we follow history, you will find that most persecutions have been performed by "churches" against newer movements refusing to toe the line of corruption the old order had gotten enmeshed in.

Of neccessity, such persecuted or emerging churches have few members

He had/has an agenda which is simply to be President

Can you give an estimate for a 2005 Ford F150 "crew cab" truck? Just lost a bid on Copart and believe you'll have more experience

I do not want a steering column attached gear shift and want a 4 door hence the crew cab designation.

@Sweetsacharin or whats your moniker?

Pls go to the muslim section. If we start on why "holy" Mo can't be the spirit and bringer of truth, you will start foaming at the mouth.

One easy thing - Jesus and all the other prophets led by example - of peace - and your brothers are following Mo's example and killing everyone. Or could you name one place with a sizable muslim population that is peaceful? By the way, how many wives did example "Holy" Mo have?

mabell:
@joagbaje,
So can we have examples of both the greater truth and lesser truth
It will make your explanation more clearer

Thank you jare!

"sits down with 2B pencil and exercise book" waiting eagerly

dare2think:
Can you then mention one political party/institutions/organization or affliation that is/was not corrupt or open to collusion in history

Or one "Church"?

@dare2think & MrBible>

Would I be nuclearboy if I didn't understand your reservations?

You should try picture this - FGBMFI is just a fellowship. I was probably more critical then than I am now and even Thomas would have been dazed at my lack of trust in anything. The nigerian was only a guest just as the Russian was. None was affiliated to the fellowship and the drama outside was witnessed by maybe just 3 or 4 people who just happened to be there. Its not as though there was advertisement or a large crowd to see it or even any way what happened could or would make the pastor (there are no specific Ogas at their breakfast meetings) or his church look good.

My point is it was sponteneous and natural plus it wasn't even widely noticed. I just was lucky to be there. Most of the people who attended didn't see what I described.

And if you think I can be fooled by the type of acrobatics in the world wrestling federation that we see in the business churches, maybe you should go through my old posts for clarity.

I know that incident was real - God still performs miracles today. As my Dad would say, you can't give me a counterfeit 5000 naira note because there is no original. Originals stil exist but they glorify God like that incident rather than man

@MrBible:

You are wrong about tongues.

2001 at a Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship meeting, a guy got up and started speaking strange words. They seemed deliberate and calm (no dancing or theatrics). After about 12 minutes non-stop, he stopped and sat down. Funnily, everyone was calm and waited quietly while he spoke as though something held us all in suspense.

After the meeting and IN MY PRESENCE, as we left, a white man walked up to him and started speaking gibberish - a foreign language. He looked back blankly at the white man which made the white man even more confused. Eventually, he told the Nigerian that he was the one the man spoke to, said the man called his name and spoke about the problem he had been having for years, the cause and how to solve it. On hearing that the nigerian didn't know a word of Russian, his language, the Russian started crying and knelt down right there and accepted Christ. I had heard of such but this happened in front of me.

Tongues are still real - but tongues are not the rubbishmasterchrisoyaksnonsenseshababa babamamamaaaa nonsense we hear in the business churches.

God is Alive and working

@Inesqor:

I am NOT about assertions - if Joagbaje wants, let him say he healed God of blindness yesterday - his IPad, his fingers, his ridicule, MY laughter!

What I'm about is what manner of man has moral right to teach God's "People"? We all know that nobody is perfect but do the Scriptures allow thieves, liars, pedophiles etc to be God's Shepherds? What manner of men were the Apostles? Did any of the "examples" we have from the scriptures live the type of life our "pulpit apostles" of today live?

That's what I would have wished to see in the hope it would make some look in the mirror

@Image:

No wahala, dear brother

I like being a "pest" that kills mosquitoes

Maybe we ought first define who a pastor is AND who ought be consider-able for the post of pastor. David was a "good" shepherd. Was Korah? It would be nice too if we considered who is "supposed" to teach - it was easy for me to listen to Dad. Would it have been so easy to listen to the town drunk or village i-diot? Its like that in Church nowadays where the man on the pulpit is so dirty he can't get respect from the pews.

Any definitions? Anyone? Of course, Biblical support would be appreciated

Sure pastor will handlle this mattter well but I wonder who Oyaks submits to. And Oyedepo too

^^

Na wah! Talk about shooting ones self in the gonads

God Himself seems to be actively involved in this "exposure" of lies, deceit and manipulation.

@Image123:

Na wah O. See what manipulating the scriptures does to your "image" eventually? I would have thought seeing us "pests" showing our man flint up would have let you know that lying, deceit and manipulation have consequences supported by God. Truth for one, always uses deceit to wipe the floor. that post wiped yours all over the world.

Sincerely though, I doubt if Image can tell such lies EXCEPT if he truly believed them. I wager he just didn't have enough information or like many of us have done, he trusted a false source and has never studied this matter himself.

Alcohol is a choice but if gone for, must be controlled

@MyJoe:

I actually asked that question because of you but not of you. I KNEW (100%) that M_Nwankwo (since he had shown up) would give a balanced response that would probably even go where even I did not consider (AND HE DID); because my understanding of Jesoul's "9mm" post seems to me to exactly replicate that scenario.

My meaning is that Jesoul would NOT commit murder under less than extreme conditions just as M_Nwankwo too has suggested "may" be his leaning if such comes up. Very recently, I have been proud to do something on this forum I would under other conditions absolutely rebel against. And I would happily do so again under same conditions.

Have you considered there could come up situations so extreme that you would gladly trade places with Jesoul and after using the 9mm, apply a "UTC" (axe) as well? Its all well and good to hold the moral high ground but I feel it premature to decide whats right or wrong when none of us knows what the future holds for us. Many have done unbelievable things, not because they wanted, but because of situations. And governments have been known to allow such as the "death penalty", simply because of public opinion (to restrain jungle justice but rather have a controlled implementation)

By the way, I'm curious - whats your take on the originating post at https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-654729.0.html ?

Hi M_Nwankwo

Here's a purely hypothetical situation I'd like your take on - you have a 2 year old daughter and walk in to find wife AND that baby under threat by someone obviously under the influence of drugs. In your presence, derangee stabs your wife for fun then announces grandly that its your daughter's turn.

Incidentally, there is a machete close to you that he didn't notice. What will be your next line of action or ought I say, what will you do?

^^ Pastor_LION

Hehehehe