₦airaland Forum

KunleOshob:
I don't need to prove any thing all i know is that "both" posters are equally shallow and they subscirbe to the heresies being spread by CEC plc, that apart i know that they are both recently created IDs by an old member of Nairaland who had to change identity becos of the ill repute the previous ID being used had gained on this forum

Whatever problem you have with CEC is your problem, am not mabell and never changed my ID. You know alot of things, why dont you use i think, knowing that lying is a sin. You and Ogajim believe thesame things so that makes you guys what? Am a christian in nairaland, is not my business if your Jehovah witness or Olumba, i only see you as a poster and not  whether you are a follower of charles.

KunleOshob:
For all you know nuella and mabell are one and the same person, CEC plc members are fund of creating multiple IDs to spread their deluded heresies.

Please prove it, Mr know know. Abi thats what you do?  Abi because there are doule ll"s in the names. Chai sorry am nuella2 not mabell. Kunleoshob is ogajim pls dont deny it.

Enigma:
Do you see now that we are going round in circles?

As I said before, I'll leave you with your own understanding, the questions I posed and the statements that I made on page 3 (which actually cryptically answer your last question).

That is no answer. Is either you agree or disagree. What i understand by leaving me with my understanding, is like you want to "jump am pass".

Enigma:
See the bit I've underlined ---- thus:

Which would you rather have: that which God wills for you OR that which you will for yourself?

Do you agree that the will of God can be changed sometimes before you ask me which one i prefer. Do you agree? yes or no

Enigma:
OK I wont refer to Word of Faith movement (if you like).

Second, already I am being dragged into gong round in circles, which I wanted to avoid ---- so I will just leave you with the last question once again.

If you can make God change His original will (A) to another one (B), does it not mean:
(1) that God was wrong to have chosen His original will (A); and
(2) that you know better than God since you chose (B) which God later agreed with you is better than His own original (A)?

No it do not mean you know better than God. If your father want to take you to uniport and you make him see you want unilag. Does it mean you know better than your father? God said lets reason together in his word. Once in the bible moses told God if you do this the Egyptians will say you could not take them to the promise land so you killed them, then God changed his mind.

ogajim:
I thought you would "represent" 'loveworld INC.' since mabell appears to be on vacation!

Let me know who you are representing sir? Since when did people start representing people on NL. Wait o, are you male or female, your becoming feminine in how words. I thought men are not busybodies, you talk too much. Sent posts that are matured pls.

Enigma:
You are right that I sounded like I did not want to waste my time. The reason is simple: my answer to the point you made is in my post that you quoted as well as in an earlier post where I said that Christians worldwide believe in intercession --- but that is not the same as forcing/compelling (or even preventing) the will of God.

You may argue that interceding to change God's mind is the same as changing the will of God; even IF I grant you that, what still transpires in the end is the will of God ---- either as He always planned it (or as His mind has apparently been changed.


If you can change the will of God, do you not think that it means you know better than God --- since the will of God was wrong or not good and therefore needed to be changed?

Anyway, I will not be surprised if you think you know better than god because in essence that is what adherents of the Word of faith movement really teach/believe ----- even if the less thoughtful ones do not realise it!

Which one is know better than God matter? How can i know better than God? Or are you tempting me? My point still remain that Man can change the will of God sometimes. If i say anything that is not in the bible show me, cant you talk without associating someone with this your word of faith stuff. If someone disagree with you then is word of faith, pls dont make me laugh. Whats my business if your Jehovah witness, this is a forum get use to it.

ogajim:
mabell is nowhere to be found, maybe nuella can sub for her

CEC and the rhapsody na wa for una ooooooo

Why are you looking for me? ogajim!!!

Enigma:
If that is your understanding, you can have it; I do not see the point of going round in circles.

Its God's word not my word, if am wrong show me from the bible. Your sounding like am wrong and you dont want to waste your time. Anyway it was great chatting with you. Takia.

Enigma:
You are confusing yourself: if God does not change, how do you change His will then?

So is it God that changes His own will/decision ----- or is it man that changes God's will/decision?

If God wills A and man wills B ----- can man bring B to pass if God does not change His mind?

Even if God does change His mind from A to B and B happens ---- was it the man that brought B to pass or was it God Himself that brought B to pass?

God planned to do something , he concluded the matter that he even sent his prophet, the man prayed and God changed his mind, period. He(man) changed the will of God. If the man didnt pray he would have died.  He changed the will of God,,,again again,,,He (MAN) prayed and God changed his mind.

ogajim:
nuella: The Lord's Prayer aka Our Father or Pater Noster (if you're co inclined) was part of Jesus' Sermon on the Mount which our Lord Jesus Christ taught to deplore people who are used to grandiose prayers for the purpose of being seen to pray. It is a standard on how to pray, the ONLY standard that truly matters if you ask me.

Are we asked to recite it or its a pattern?
Did the apostles teach the brethren to recite that prayer?
What is the meaning of, pray in this manner, that Jesus told them?

Enigma:
So when God dialogued with Abraham, God then needed the cooperation of Adam to make His own will come to pass? Was it not that God said to Adam, "OK I will not[/i] . . ." So how was Abraham's cooperation needed in relation to God's power for that which God would not indeed [b]not to happen?

How about Hezekiah ---- when God said 'I have heard your prayer and I[b] will heal you', what did Hezekiah have to compel God's power to do what he said 'I will' i.e. to heal [/b] him.

Christians worldwide believe in intercession; they do not see that as forcing/compelling God; they do not see the happening of that which they prayed for as something occurring by their own power or something they have made to happen --- but rather as something due to the divine grace of God.

Even Jesus Christ Himself prayed 'thy will be done' ---- was He less on the earth than the so called "mature born again man"?

But the man got his result abi? God changed his mind cos the man prayed? So did the will of God done at that time? My point is God's will can be changed sometimes and in some situation. God do not change, he is thesame yesterday, today and forever. Do you now agree that God's will has been changed before and can be changed today, by prayer and intercession of men?

Enigma:
What and how did Oyakhilome teach you about the Lord's prayer?

If you don't want to answer that one, then tell us your own perspective on the Lord's prayer!

I asked a question my brother? Why is it called the lord's prayer? Is me and you with bible which one is Oyakhilome inside this matter?

Enigma:
And in any event --- how does any of those indicate someone "changing the will of God"?

A better example might have even been Abraham pleading with God to spare Sodom and Gomorrah ---- but even that does not accord with the Word of Faith movement's doctrine which is based on "speaking words of faith" or "exercising faith" rather than praying to or pleading with God.

What do you mean by will of God? Didnt God dialogue with Abraham on how to save that city? Dont bring word of faith here am quoting from the bible. So those events that were changed where what? Didnt GOD tell the man he was going to die? Did he die?

When Jesus taught his disciples to pray did he say they should be reciting it or he gave them a pattern to pray? why is it called the lords prayer sef? Is he the person that prayed that prayer or he taught his disciples.

ogajim:
nuella, everything you quoted came after Jesus Christ prayed " Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven, "

You get my drift here?

Oops! I forgot some of the Pentecostal folks now consider "Our Lord's Prayer" insufficient

What are you saying Joshua, Elijah etc where on earth before Jesus came o.

ogajim:
"God's will" will be done whether we like it or not, Remember what happened to Jonah when he thought he could dictate for God.

Jesus Christ (our ONLY advocate) prayed for God's will to be done instead of his own, we must be VERY careful when we put HUMANS on a pedestal when there is no MORE middle man between God and man.

1 Kings 17:1
    And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the Lord God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word.

Joshua 10:13
    And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
I though God has programmed when the sun should rise and set? A man changed that. What of HEZEKIAH didnt he changed what God said and planned?
 
2 Kings 20:1
    In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.

My brother these where men that changed God's will at sometime, so there are things we can change.

@noetic16
What makes a person a sinner? Nature or action? A christian is to live right yes but if he commit sin what happens? When a christian commit sin is he called a sinner? Pls i need answers with scriptural references. I see you are very perfect.

This is great news. May God bless as many people that gave towards this mission.

The church has really changed me as a person. The church is a training place, it changes your attitude, mentality and self esteem. The words i hear in church made me a better person, Praise GOD!!!. And am still learning new things everyday.

Jaylone:
@ nuella2

If the Christian that sins dies in his sins or is in his sins when Jesus comes, he will PERISH.

@noetic16

Truly the unpopular gospel is hardly preached today. Can you imagine that time is grinding to a close and the signs of the end-time is glaring in our sights, yet the only gospel we hear people preach is that of a merciful GOD who is sooooooooooooooooo forgiving even when the ways of sinners and church goers are not right?

A merciful GOD should be preached with a condition that the sinner is repentant and not as if GOD is begging and can't do without a sinner of sinning church goer.

The problem is that I have this burden but honestly don't know where to start

What are you saying? That God do not forgive the christian if he sin? What is sin to you sef? Do you know how many billion people do not even believe the gospel? Then the believing ones will perish, because God will not forgive them if they sin. Even after Jesus has paid the price. Forgiveness of sin is for the christian, remission is for the unsaved. So you dont sin abi, sin is not only fornication and adultery hope you know. It could be pride, greed, lying, lust, hadred infact faithlessness is sin.

KunleOshob:
No it's not unscriptural to give money in church, however it is unscriptural and evil to distort scriptures to extort money from worshippers in church. Examples of indoctrinated twisted, evil and greed motivated teachings established in some churches today to fleece the flock include mandatory tithing, seed sowing and first fruits. These twisted doctrines clearly have no sound basis in true christianity.

Which one is mandatory tithing? People are taught to give in churches no pastor will put a gun on a member to give his tithe. Abi is there a church you cant enter bc you didnt tithe? Why are you drinking panadol in another man's pain if there is as you think. Are tithe payers complaining abi they are mumu so your thier advocate. Or you have planned to carry people on your back to heaven. A christian should give all and his best at all times, if he can, according to his faith.Where your hearth is where you put your treasure. Even it means starving for a day so you can give for the sake of the gospel, thats love, great love for the master. Is not only when is convenient that a christian should give, even if it means your last cash. I have done it severally and i will do it over and over again.

Jaylone:
Yes the world needs you and me. But can I really stand up and cry to the people knowing that they will perish if they don't change their ways? Or I'll pamper them to believe that GOD is merciful and forgiving and no matter what they do He will forgive them (which is true only if they turn from their ways)

why do you say you know they will perish? Thats why you should pray for them to be saved, cos is the devil that has blinded thier eyes that they do not believe our glorious gospel. To the christian that sins, in as we are not encouraged to remain sinning. God is faithful and just to forgive, when a christian sin.

KunleOshob:
I am sure Pastor agabje is quite capable of defending himself and does not need an overzealous adherent to write on his behalf. it is an open secret that most pentecostal/ WOF pastors see their churches as their personal property even if they are not arrogant enough to say it publicly becos it doesn't make business sense.

Kunle Oshobi how did you know they see the church as thier personal property? OK you feel so but they have not said so abi? so stop putting words into thier mouth elder.

KunleOshob:
People twisting the glorious gospel of the Kingdom of God which leads to salvation of man are my problem. That aside it is not my comission to kill people that say there is no God or unbelievers, i would leave that to the Jihadists

The way to God is to believe in Jesus, has any christian said is through him or her? Anytime you dont agree with someone, then that person is fake and has twisted scripture. Every christian must think like you and see as the way you see. Who called you into that ministry? If is not your way then is wrong. I agree the body of christ is not yet mature, we are growing and will get there by the help of the holy spirit.

KunleOshob:
Did you read the luke 16:12 verse i highlighted he was using the example of a man's personal property in reference to the pastor/ church debacle inferring that the pastor owns the church.

He didnt mean church has property but serving under a pastor. Some pastors start churches simply because of misunderstanding between them and a senior pastor, so in anger they start a church not because God instructed him, praise God christ is still preached.

KunleOshob:
Well some ofthem don't see themselves as humans, they see themsleves as some sort of demons "gods" Pastor agabje and other WOF deluded adherents would testify to that statement.

Kunle oshobi what is your problem? Have you killed all the people that say there is no God. Your full of shit ,why?.

KunleOshob:
Churches are now personal properties of pastors abi? I laugh in WOF tongues

From what is written there by joagbaje, he didnt say churches where pastors properties o. Abi your reading something else?

The word luck is not biblical. Is either a human is blessed or cursed. A man can be cursed to not just a woman.

KunleOshob:
And the debate goes on      and some would even deny the existence of fake pastors when the bible makes it clear that their would be tonnes of them  we truly live in very interesting times. Prosperity Pastors today openly deny the very christ they claim to serve by their action and false teachings.

2 Peter 2:1-3:
   1 But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. 3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

Titus 1:16:
16 Such people claim they know God, but they deny him by the way they live. They are detestable and disobedient, worthless for doing anything good.

Nobody said there are no false teachers but that someone preach prosperity do not make him false. According to you any pastor that teach people to tithe is fake. I wonder who taught you that false teaching you carry around NL.

The world need you, thats why you came at such a time. God do not make mistake by bringing you now and not Elijah or Jeremiah. They have done thier part do yours.

I love pastors that preach the gospel of christ, yeah preach joy not sadness and sorrow, peace not anxiety. Any pastor that dont preach joy and peace is of the devil cos the kingdom of God is righteousness(Jesus) peace and joy. There are enough challenges in the world already to put more fear in people apart from the fear(reverence) and love of God. The gospel is good news not bad news, christ is the embodiment of peace and joy. The church is where the saints are taught to be matured, the message for the christian is maturity in christ, to the unbeliever is salvation, leading him to God, Christianity is not just about going to heaven. What about when your on earth? suffer and die? Pastors where given to train christians to be sons, not to remain babes in christ.