₦airaland Forum

johnydon22:
[b]Not when an apple is just an illusionary projection in your head.

Using the apple analogy, if there was an apple tree in front of the two of us (assuming we are sitting together) There is no way i will need you to tell me the apple fruit is sweet or if there is even an apple tree standing there.
Once the apple is right there in front of you, we both don't need to believe there is but we will know and be sure. .and clearly the apple tree need no more proof.
None of us will necessarily bother telling the other how sweet the apple is because it is right there before us.

But in this case there isn't any apple tree clear for we both to see, you are telling me an apple fruit is sweet yet cant show me the apple fruit or the tree then you expect me to believe?
You say you have a fruit yet all am seeing is your mouth moving without seeing any fruit with you... You assert the apple tree is unprovable yet expect me to believe by FAITH that you are eating a fruit from a tree that is unprovable or unsubstantiable...

You say there is an apple tree yet cant prove there is, it is safe to conclude that your apple tree is just in your head since its not obviously certain or let me say provable. [/b]

Nothing abstract at least we can all see the bible (the word). There is a way to eat the apple just like a way to read the bible.
If you bite the apple from the bottom or top, you may eat the seeds which are not sweet. Then you may falsely conclude that the apple is bitter!
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:17

johnydon22:
It was simply stated on my post. . .
The T.V depicts the feature of Belief and unbelief because both ON and OFF are both features of a t.v.

ON depicts the position of theism (Mind you this is not a religion but just belief in a god)

CHANNELS portrays religions because CHANNELS are only possible when a t.v is ON so channels are products of a t.v that is ON.

Of course there are blank channels, Buddhism does not involve belief in a deity yet it is a religion.

Then OFF simply means the t.v is not ON (Non-theist) and when a t.v is not ON there are no channels. (religion)

So atheism is the position of OFF while theism is the ON position.
None of the two is a religion.

If the OFF postion being just a single position is Atheist, how can you account for the variations in Atheist ideals?
You can account for that in the theist ON postiton via channels.

johnydon22:
And how does this help? it is just a cut and run tactics.
By agreeing something is unprovable, you cannot categorically tell someone about that thing until you prove it... its very simple

No running here. God is not unprovable. He is provable only by Himself (when you try him and He encourages you to do so).
If God wasn't working in my life, why would I be a Christian? For decoration?

Example:
I have tasted apples. They are sweet. (the apples have prooved to be sweet to me).
You have never tasted apples. How can I convince you they are sweet. I tell you about apples.
The ultimate way to prove it is truely sweet is to eat of it (beleive). All I can do is tell you and let the apple do its job when you taste it.
No amount of explanation can compensate for the actual tasting of the apples. The apples will convince you, I can only tell you.

johnydon22:
Now we are getting somewhere, why would an all powerful being need you to tell me about him?
Only a man made god would need Man to make himself known to man.

I don't need you to tell me am hungry, i don't need you tell me i have eyes because these are obvious certainties so you need no one to tell you.

You mentioned god cannot be proven or disproved (Which funny enough is my position as agnostic atheist) then you turn around and start giving me instructions from that same thing you said cannot be proven. . and expect me to believe? By telling me things about what you agree is not prove able are you not now making the blunder of trying to prove it yet can't tell how you got to know.

. . its getting clearer now then

God proves Himself not man proving God. You dont need to, just tell it and He will do the rest.

Hope this helps:
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. - Matthew 10:14

Now back to the TV analogy. What is the TV? So I can get a clearer picture.

johnydon22:
You are just the one swimming in your own misrepresentation and understanding of a simple analogy so as to drag Atheism down your mess.…

Again i repeat, Atheism and theism are POSITIONS and not religions.
In fact the bolded part of your post helps buttress my point.

The T.V position of ON and OFF depicts the position of theism and atheism.
The channels in t.v depicts different religions in theism.
[b]Atheism simple means OFF. . .
Unless of course as you are showing us you dont know the definition of a religion.[/b]

Maybe I am not getting you. Why is Atheism not a blank channel, why off?
Refering to BOLDED. So what is the TV?

Weah96:
That's funny, the only time I've heard anything about God, it was a human being running their mouth. Elijah proved his God to the prophets of Baal.

You're saying what we've been saying, that the writers of the Bible should have been slapped for bringing texts from God without any way of proving that God talked to them.

Here is the Truth:
No man can prove the existence of God except God himself (by the Holy Spirit).

Okay let me break it down based on my quote above cos I can see where this is going.
Elijah you quoted proved God by himself right? He needed help from God.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:20

God has shown enough of Himself even in nature. Even if He comes down and walk the streets which he did in Jeus, those that will believe will and those who will not, will not.
Look at the Isrealites in the wilderness. God proved Himself over and over via Moses. Still they believed for a while and dropped off.
This is why I or any Christian don't boast of my salvation like Apostle Paul said we are saved by grace.

Our duty is to telll you about God, if you beleive or not is not up to me, it is up to God. This is what I mean. Dont take me out of context. Thanks

johnydon22:
I am pretty sure you are mistaking having a belief and having a religion

Someone may believe in a god and not have a religion, it simply is belief.
Deists, pantheist all believe in a god but they have no religion.

So you see? throwing in the belief in sancta claus phrase is yet another childish attempt on logic...

That they are atheist that have a certain belief in some superstitious notions doesn't make them religious. . they are Christians who do not buy into superstitions it doesn't make them irreligious. . so know the difference between being religious and having a belief.

When its comes to religiosity and belief in a deity, atheism is synonymous to OFFing the t.v which is not a t.v channel whether it is removed from the power socket or not... Now re-read your post

You are the one saying atheism is OFFING the TV not me.
The analogy is wrong and I gave 2 scenerios.
If your analogy is true then, ON on the TV will be a theist state irrespective of the channel being watched (now this cannot be true).
How about blank channels? I can think of 1000 ways in which this analogy is flawed.

onetrack:
Of course I don't believe everything I was taught in school. The Big Bang is a theory, not simply a belief, because it is backed up with reams of evidence. And I'd like you to name any prominent modern astronomer who categorically rejects the big bang, and what they actually believe. There is no faith here, because faith is believing in something without evidence.

And priniciples of evolution demonstrate clearly how complex forms of life arise over time from less complex forms of life. Nothing at all mysterious about evolution. If evolution and the environment favored development of life forms resembling cars, then car-like life forms may have evolved.

You should see the movie http://www.evolutionvsgod.com/
Religion aside, even I was stunned to see Profs and Biology experts speechless when asked tough questions on Evolution.

Folks who drive with both legs are more prone to accidents. Braking and accelerating at the same time, hmmm unless you are a trained in motor sports and stunt driving.

menesheh:
Do You know your problem? You want it the easy way and never care to study a concept critically b4 you criticise. You wanted it this easy way- believe in god! ohh yea it is awesome i believe in god without asking question.
Big bang is not a child play or god concept, therefore dont joke with it. If you ever do that, you are joking with the entire scientific enterprise, where you as a christian apologist depend on almost all your daily dealings - typing on Nairaland, tranport from here to there, using computer, work made easy, music and almost all spere of contemporary human endeavors.
My happiness is that you admitted that science allowed for criticism and disbelief in big bang. The essence of that is to continue for more critical research and upgrade to avoid believing in big bang as a delusion. But god concept is, "am correct and no room for upgrade of old ideas whether is true or not"

You are probably more honest that most Atheist I know.
I am a STRONG believer in science. Science has done a lot for man as well as futher proved my belief in God.
Science is not an enemy to God. Sadly, many Christians think so. I am NOT one of such. My posts on NL will confirm this. Science proove God.

Here is the Truth:
No man can prove the existence of God except God himself (by the Holy Spirit). This is scriptural.
Even Christians are saved by grace not cos of knowledge or logic. Apologetics don't get anyone saved only God can.

There is constructive and destructive criticism.
Asking questions of Christianity NOT to learn but to ridicle is where my problem lies and that is where I take offence.
Offence not cos God cannot speak for Himself, but so Christians with weak faith are not derailed.

johnydon22:
Hahahahahaha yea just like OFFing a television is a television channel.

Your analogy is wrong cos if OFF on TV is compared to atheism, then we will not have various "OFF's" like offs that believe in Santa Claus or Evolution and those that don't. It would have been a UNIFIED off. Off can be standy mode or power from the socket off.
However, if we see various TV channels as different states of the TV, the off is also a state. A state of blankness. So either way, that analogy is flawed.

johnydon22:
N.B: I for one do not subscribe to any of the theories about the origin of anything, i simply say i don't know.

Atleast we agree on this. Science tries to give an explanations (which is good). 70% of the Earth is covered by water, science assume it came from commets and meteors but its just a theory till anything else comes along. They don't know but give possible suggestions.

krattoss:
permit me to say this but u just lied.

I personally dont believe in any of those

There are those who do. Those are the various "sects" in the Atheist religion.

...

Ryders:
thks guy, so i will av to wait till innoson hit the market

Aside Innosin (IVM), there are other car manufacturers in Nigeria.
I have seen pics of the Nissan plant. I heard of VW, but I am not sure of other manufacturers.

Alloy wheels depend on RIM size not really car make or model. Check you car tyre for the rim size then you'll know the price.

DECOtech:
Who told you 6 cylinder engines are fuel thirsty? pls get rid of the mentality. V6 engines would take more fuel than an I4 engine cos of the extra 2 cylinders but to describe them as "fuel thirsty" is an unfair exaggeration. Even a faulty I4 engine would consume more fuel than an old school American V8 engine.

Of the three vehicles you want to choose from, I favour the Mazda MPV. Reason is that a very close friend of mine has owned it since 2008 and still using it. Maintenance culture is the key to long life of any vehicle.

Thank you. I have always said that its driving habits that increase fuel consumption not really engine capacity.
Engine capacity is a factor but not as much as folks say (2 extra plugs = 50% more consumption). Its like the myth that driving without AC reduces fuel consumption.

robedu:
I drive toyota avensis 2007.

And my mechanic is making life a living hell for me, when the car has issue, most times i cannot be repaired once, he will repair the first, bring it and the same thing will happen and he will do it again, sometimes it takes up to 3 to 4 times to get one issue resolved.

The one that happen now is so annoying, last week the car accelerator at some point will not move fast even if you press with all your power and finally it will stop. and then i will start it again.

My Mechanic came to pick it up, fix it and bring it for me on Sunday and on Monday the same thing happen.

Will i ever be able to get a good mechanic to help me out on a low budget. i am so tired, im even crying

Ask around from friends or colleagues using a Toyota. Dont underestimate WORD OF MOUTH.
My gen mechanic was introduced to me by my neighbour. I have continued to patronize him for the past 4 years.
My old mechanic didn't do Honda. My new car mechanic was introduced to me by a driver in my office. I have continued to patronize him for 3 years.

onetrack:
As far as atheists trolling religion section, I'm also tired of religious preachers trolling the television channels and billboards with their chicanery. Fortunately I can skip those silly channels, but I can't stop from seeing the billboards and advertisements. Maybe it's time for some atheist billboards and TV channels?

Isn't life just amazing? Atheism in avoiding religion has ended up creating one.

johnydon22:
Big bang a myth? hahahaha no wonder many people say theist don't actually study.
The big bang is a SCIENTIFIC study, pay mind to the SCIENTIFIC. it has nothing to do with atheism. Many theist as well as atheist agree with that scientific theory which of course still is under heavy study and observations. . Unless you mean to tell me scientific studies are myth or maybe you don't know the meaning of myth but this is typically a laughable assertion from someone who allegedly must have gone to school.

Do you believe everything you were taught in school? So as not to prolong this thread.
Religion aside, big bang is a scientific BELIEF with little evidence connecting the dots. It is based on certain assumptions (NOT FACTS). Infact, a lot of scientist DO NOT subscribe to it. If the dictionary def of myth is anything to go by, it will be safe to call it a myth. Anyone who can think will immediately see the flaws in "big bang".
Statements about big bang begin with scientist believe that billions of year ago... talk about FAITH.
A car (less complex than a living being) came about on its own by collision of glass, plastic, metals, bolts, oil, water etc over time? Really C'mon.

menesheh:
You are just interested in my $1000 but could not meet up with the criterias for it. I said santa believer who vigorously tried to convince you to believe in Santa Claus.

Atheists are not superstitious. It is a disbelief in superstition, natural causation and the process of invoking people's conciousness to reconsider their various believes whether it meet-up with the normal rational way of determining whether a concept is fact or not.

Bro, don't need the money.
Refering to be BOLDED. Atheist are superstitious. Some believe in Santa Claus and Toothfairy but not in existence of a God. Talk of hypocrisy.

MizJanet:
confuse man, the spoken word of ur god died for three days ? Yes or no .



Bible: Prv 8:24 is saying christian jesus is created


NumberOne2 : yes , if taken literarily , but actually i dont think so .

You sound so dumb .

And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. - Matthew 1:25
Lets see how smart you are. If brought forth means created like you say, explain it as used above.

menesheh:
You don't believe in santa clause right? i bet you a thousand dollars, tell me how many times you've seen somebody who believed in Santa Claus shouting in the street, bus, school, NL and almost everywhere, telling you with certainty to believe in what he/she is convinced exist.

Every end of year since I was born, Santa Claus has been in my face. I even see folks dressed like him with the red cap. Talk about annoyance. Who cares, the guy doesn't exist. However its different with Atheist and non existent gods. Now that is a problem.

johnydon22:
Again atheists or agnostics are not fighting your god (its just an idea) what we stand up against is you theists (at least i know you exist) imposing their delusion on people, trying to downplay scientific knowledge in the young ones to uphold superstition and myth. .even a god if one exists would be ashamed of theists for that.

More inconsistencies in BOLDED:
Atheist are superstitions also. Are you attacking superstition in Atheism also?
Big bang is a myth widely accepted by Atheist. Are you attacking it also? So why is the "Christian myth" the focus?
Admit or not, there is a preference for attacking the "Christian myth". Well, maybe like you said, you enjoy. Have fun.

johnydon22:
We will all be happy to keep our atheism to ourselves if you will also do the needful and keep your theism to yourself.

Well, this will be possible if there weren't so many Atheists trolling NL religious section. The thread board speaks for itself.

MizJanet:
Brought forth means "CREATION " here . Lets see if you are intelligent and consistent in your explanation .



You are even worst than that girl , so brought forth here means spoken. So since jesus is the word of ur god , your god was dumb for three days when his word was killed , he couldnt speak.

Refering to the BOLDED above.

Hmmm, so you are saying if God stops speaking Jesus will die? or if Jesus died God will go mute?
Expanded: So since God spoke creation into being, then if God stops speaking, creation will go extinct? So God must keep talking to maintain the status quo?
Even among mankind, words of men live long after they have been uttered (even if the man goes mute or dies). Is this hard to understand?

Seriously, this is why I keep asking if you have have passed JAMB or WAEC? I question your basic O' level English comprehension.

MizJanet:
hmm @ bold , CREATING word and the word is jesus , you finally admit that the jesus christians shout around is also Created .

Your god popularly called ' the word' is created.

That is why I said LITERARILY (not actually). Analogy taken out of context. English is a problem.

Basic biology gives the charactersistics of living things as:
Movement, Respiration, Death, Nutrition, Irritability, Growth, Excretion, Reproduction.

Now in the course of evolution, which of the above listed characteristics came first?
They couldn't have all come at one time as this will not be possible according to evolution (step by step).

Example:
Lets say organisms learnt to breathe first, so organisms couldnt excrete or do other stuff, just breath. Then they would have DIED before they could adapt with other characteristics.
But hey, they would have to evolve so they could acquire DEATH which is also a characteristic of living things, right?

So how did these characteristic form and in what sequence? Evolutionary puzzle.

menesheh:
So our body system is different from yours right?

Where will you as a Christian go when you die?

NumberOne2

If an Atheist TRUELY believes there is nothing after life, just rot and turning to manure. Why spend so much energy (in this ONE LIFE) trying to disprove a God that you are certain doesn't exist? I look at the profiles of most Atheist on NL, over 90% are active in the religious section. Kinda contradictory isn't it?

I don't believe in the Santa Claus, I know not to spend my precious (one life) trying to disprove Santa Claus and Tooth fairy. There are more important things to do. This is just on of the many hypocrisies of Atheism. Claiming A and doing B.

It amazes me to find an intelligent person who fights against something which he does not at all believe exists. --Mohandas Gandhi

I personally never had any issues with NIV. From their scripture numberings they make it clear that a verse or two may be missing.
No big deal. I just check another bible version. NIV english is easy to understand.

I am a bit surprise this is an issue. I have known for a while now that those verses were missing in NIV but to say it is demonic... C'mon

MizJanet:
Dont always showcase your stupidity everywhere , face the two verse of psalm 90:2 and prover 8:24 that deals with been Created ! Explain the two verses or shut ur mouth 4eva

Okay maybe I was too hard on you. Hmmm, lets see. This is literarily creating mountains and creating words.

Before the mountains were brought forth , or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. - Psalms:90:2
This talks about creation of the mountains.

When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. - Proverb:8:24
This talks about Jesus as the WORD OF GOD. The Word was brought forth (spoken, proceed from the Father) even before creation.

sevenhundred:
Things were far better then, peaceful and lovely.

Popular saying: The grass always looks greener on the other side.
Peaceful stuff like, burying kings and chiefs with 7 heads, killing of twins, human sacrifice were more peaceful?
Wanna go back there, goodluck with that.

PS: Since Christianity is not spread by violence, have you bothered to find out why the Christian missionaries and their religion was accepted and our ancestors rejected their local dieties? I know why mine did. The story has been passed down to us.

Just curious since most Atheist don't believe in after life, where do they when they die?

sevenhundred:
[center][/center]we keep fighting, praying both xtian and muslim, but nothing change. i think it is time we try other gods like ogun, sango, amadioha, and other well respected oracle in africa let try our own god and forget about this imported ideology call religion lets try our own. what do you think.

Our ancestors tried them before the "White man" came. You can always refer back to history to see how things were then.

MizJanet:
ME: You have contradict yourself my sister , according to the first verse which says mountains are brought forth , you said it means they are created .

GIRL : *sighs* , but what I know is that Jesus was not created , pls we shall see next time others are waiting for me

ME: so you will leave me , without solving this

GIRL: its not like dat *smiles and walk away* ,

, but why are christians not consistent and straight forward ?

Anytime I see your post(s), I keep asking if you have written JAMB or WAEC cos English has always been your problem.
Have you heard of Synonyms? Kindly check here for synonyms of "brough forth!". http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/brought+forth

You will see words like:
create, make, breed, reproduce, beget, form and many more...

Examine this scripture:
And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. - Matthew 1:25
Does the BOLDED mean she "created" her firstborn son? Na wa oh!

Advice:
Kindly meditate on this scripture:
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: - Hosea 4:6

Finally, reading KJV doesnt do justice to the bible. Use modern English bibles. Cheers

philiancoop:
More often than not in the Bible, both Old and New Testament, when a prophet comes to a person with a "word" the chances that it would be a glad tiding is often less than 1 out of 8. Why is this please?

1 out of 8! really? Is that an assumed figure or fact? Anyway, it all depends on which book you are reading. Have you read the book Revelations or Psalms?

I am a bit surprised why this is under religion and not science.
From what I can read, they are still frogs. Well, hopefully in the next 5 million years, they will become frog men.

This is clearly a misunderstanding of context. Since when did change of intent mean change of character?
God doesn't change: Character consistency.
God changes his mind: Yes, in line with character consistency.

English Example:
Character like I am tall. (this cannot change)
Mind change: I wanted to go to Jos, but I changed my mind and went to Kano.
Have I changed: NO. Why? cos I am still tall. Same tall guy in Kano or Jos either way.

To the Bible
Genesis 6:6-7 is NOT a change but a character consistency that God hates sin.
If God changes, then he may begin to like sin. Then the passage may read:
"And God liked the sins that man committed and it made Him glad"

If you read the previous verse 13 of Exodus 32:14 where you quoted, you will see why God changed his mind.
Moses reminded God of his promises. He keeps his promises so He changed his mind.
"God would have said, I have to dissapoint Abraham, Isaac and Jacob on this one, these people have to die"

Same with Jonah story. God remains forgiving when the people repented.

Jollyjoy:
Am really alarmed at the level of partiality, corruption and indecency in today"s churches, i was invited to a programme yesterday, in one of those anglican churches bt i must say churches today are doing directly opposite wat the good old book said, imagine in a church, big men are given preferential treatment,i almost shed tears wen the gate was opened 4 a man with jeep bt an old woman with a walking stick was left standing, am suprised at how materialistic pastors and position occupant in the church have turned, imagine a pastor wife selling food items in the church,imagine a pastor counting money in the present of the congregration, imagine a pastor seeing his member in need without lending a helping hand. Another set of people are the youth, imagine a youth going to church to toast a gal, a gal going to church with sage skirt, breast popping out.Infact wat is the need of even going when ur heart is far from God.? It being long i went to church bt i dnt envy church goers at all,so many fake, materialistic, and corrupt practises,it beta to serve God in ur heart and please to the sons and daughters of eve,if u knw u are going to church to listen to secular music,dnt go, stay in ur house, the church of God is already a mess,the choir is even worst. Haba.

The Church is not the building, it is you and I. So 2 or 3 are enough to make a church.
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. - Matthew 18:20

It is good that people are showing their true colours (I tell you, it is by the Spirit). The days of pretending are behind us. Where everyone is "Holy" on Sunday and "Worldly" for the rest of the week. Now we know the sheep and goat. Thank God.
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: - Matthew 25:32

echelons:
A goes first.
It's a primary knowledge for drivers that went through driving school.
Right of way goes first to the driver going on a straight line, then the drivers that are joining another road.

Now I understand why we have lots of accidents on our roads. Lots of ignorant responses below like giving way to the vehicle by your left! Damn! We are talking of a junction here, 2 different roads. That left rule applies to two vehicles on the same road. There's a reason those cars were labelled A,B,C. It wasn't just coincidence.

Meanwhile, the cars are not driving in the correct lanes if this were to be Nigerian roads. This should be from a European driving book.

I just attached a picture from my driving book.

However, driving is beyond right of way. Use ur head.

Very correct. With folks like you, there is still hope for Nigerian roads.