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Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by nuwell(m): 11:38pm On Oct 15, 2014

Thanks WinsomeX. I do indeed get your drift and it's not so much a drift as a tidal wave. lolz

I agree wholeheartedly that the truth be taught as God gives us opportunity, with as much vehemence and more, as its perverters employ. Instruction in the faith should always be sound and uncompromising.

However, I just wanted BabaGnoni to ease off on the emphasis on medical exploits as the interpretation of the greater works that Jesus said we (his disciples) would do. He could well be right but that is not the all-encompassing connotation of that Scripture. Or would we be able to justify then why instead of faithful disciples, ardent deniers of God are often at the helm of these affairs? I feel the point has been made and there is no need to ruin a good point with a controversial illustration.

From the posts he quoted, I see his point and I agree that man is capable of much, through God, in managing this earth He's given to us. But pursuing the medical premise was becoming distracting to the emphasis of this thread, hence my protest. As for reproving the proponents of wrong doctrine, there is no question of how to go about it.

'And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.'

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Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by nuwell(m): 11:35pm On Oct 15, 2014

Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by nuwell(m): 6:28pm On Oct 15, 2014

BabaGnoni, while I understand that you're are attempting to demystify the spurious claims of people who claim credibility by putting up baseless, controversial and well-staged shows of their ability branded as the 'power of God', I would want us to strike a balance too, at least for many yet infant believers coming to the knowledge of God.

The power of God is real, tangible and may not always be scientifically explainable. It will often defy logic. But the truth is that God does not perform miracles for showing off, but as an part of His work of reaching out daily to men's hearts.

No matter how men attempt to counterfeit and dubiously replicate the power of God, they will never succeed. All God does is for His glory, no man will ever be able to take credit for it. He uses us to show forth His power, we don't use Him to acclaim ourselves before people. He is the Sovereign Lord and He does as He pleases.

If we let Him work through us, we inevitably radiate His glory, only as we abide in Him of course and He is glad to be exalted in our lives - to show forth His power in and through vessels of clay.

Scientific advancement and accomplishments will never touch the extent of God's power. If there be such accomplishments, it is God who has revealed them to help men indeed dominate the earth. I remember how the law of God through Moses contained sanitary rules whom people of those times might not have been able to explain or justify but which with the increase of knowledge in these last days, we acknowledge and approve, centuries after He first instructed them.

So saying, I would not hurriedly interprete Jesus' statement that we would do greater works as the manifestations of scientific advancements. Just like Jesus also said That He only did what He saw His Father do, we will only do greater works than Jesus did, because God decides to expose new dimensions of Himself, and not because we can just independently take up the initiative for ourselves.

I hope I haven't misconstrued your meaning but I just thought to chip this in, to give a balanced view for the benefit of anyone who is still learning of these matters - that their faith in God's incontestably supreme power be not overthrown.

Thanks

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Bankruptcy Of The Prosperity Gospel: An Exercise In Biblical And Theological by nuwell(m): 6:59pm On Oct 12, 2014*

Gombs:
Zac 1:17 Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem.

[Psa 35:27
27 Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

Can you also explain the above for me too? Thanks

Maybe you should do more study on the book of Zechariah

I certainly will, again. But off the cuff now, all you need to do is to continue reading through the entire book yourself to realize what was paramount on the mind of the Prophet, as inspired by God during this time. The Jews were in exile. They needed to return home after more than 70 years of captivity, to regain their sovereignty as a nation and build again the Temple - establish again the worship of the one, true God.

The entire book has the same theme but you can find a summary of what their idea of prosperity was in the 8th chapter. There all the aspects of this prosperity were outlined. If it wouldn't make this post unnecesarily voluminous, I would have posted the entire chapter. However, let me highlight a verse that interpretes the one you quoted from Chapter 1, verse 17.

'Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also.Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.'
(Zechariah 8:20-23)

How else do you think that the cities of the Lord would be spread abroad? By a vibrant economy and trading system that would outclass every other that had existed? Yes, that would have been one of the natural results of the fear of God in every man's heart. There wouldn't be need for needless wars to establish the supremacy of Israel because the world having recognized Israel as God's people and Jerusalem, His headquarters would naturally submit to Him, and by extension the instruction of the Jew, in the fear of the Lord.

'Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.' (Zechariah 8:23)

For Psalm 35:27, the entire chapter explains the context in which David speaks of 'prosperity', and there's not one allusion to material acquisition aka plenty money. He speaks in that psalm of how he believed God to rescue him from his enemies. It is a record of triumph over the natural reaction to hate his enemy when he says in verses 12 - 14.

'They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul.
But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom.
I behaved myself as though he had been my friend or brother: I bowed down heavily, as one that mourneth for his mother.'

His statement in verse 27 which you quoted is a resolve from an understanding that the way of righteousness triumphs eventually over the hatred of men, and his conviction that God is indeed enthusiastic about helping anyone who trusts in Him, out of tough situations.

The Lord does indeed have pleasure in the prosperity of his servants. Praise the Lord!

There's so much more we can gleam from that Scripture but I hope this summary is sufficiently insightful.

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Christianity Etc › Re: The Bankruptcy Of The Prosperity Gospel: An Exercise In Biblical And Theological by nuwell(m): 8:58pm On Oct 11, 2014

Gombs:
Oga image...

Paul it's legibly not eligibly... English sha o

Nora, I'm here now... can you show me one scripture where we are encouraged not to be prosperous? Is poverty the will of God for those His Son died for?

Thank you!

Zechariah 1:13-17 MSG
13-15God reassured the Angel-Messenger—good words, comforting words —who then addressed me: "Tell them this. Tell them that God-of-the-Angel-Armies has spoken. This is God's Message: 'I care deeply for Jerusalem and Zion. I feel very possessive of them. But I'm thoroughly angry with the godless nations that act as if they own the whole world. I was only moderately angry earlier, but now they've gone too far. I'm going into action.

16-17"'I've come back to Jerusalem, but with compassion this time.'

This is God speaking.

From tbe above, God was pissed unbelivers were richer than His chosen ones...and He acted

The Scripture you quoted above was speaking about God's compassion for His people in exile and the fact that the godless nations with whom He had punished His people for their sins, were getting comfortable with the thought that they held Israel captive solely by their military might and prowess and not by God's design and permission - hence their acting as if they owned the whole world. They were in essence denying God's sovereignty and taking the glory to themselves for this 'accomplishment'.

His promised action was to return them to their own land.

As for encouraging people to be prosperous, if we can be honest with ourselves, we usually mean (usually before and above other things) material possessions and riches when we use the word 'prosperity' - money as a matter of fact. The moment we can admit this fact, the easier it is to see the situation much clearer. Here's what the Scripture admonishes.

'But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1Tim. 6:9-10
'Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;'
(1Ti 6:17-18 KJV)

So there are more worthy causes in life than making lots of money. There is only one worthy cause - the quest to become like Jesus, if you could even call that a quest for which one can take the credit for, since God works in us both to will and do according to His good pleasure.
In Jesus, the abundance of or lack of riches and material goods is inconsequential to fulfillment in life.

'And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.' Luke 12:15 KJV

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Travel › Re: Tex Trex by nuwell(m): 6:47pm On Oct 09, 2014

texanomaly:
Nice equipment. I wonder how long before someone vandalizes it.

That happens there too? Why would anyone want to vandalize them? sad

Christianity Etc › Re: Pleading The Blood Of Jesus Christ by nuwell(m): 6:29pm On Oct 02, 2014

^^
Still on the issue...Christmas and many other mordern church practices may be harmless, despite having no Scriptural basis. However, it is entirely wrong for anyone to impose their preferences on someone else, teaching and judging the other person unworthy of God's love and favour because they don't subscribe to such observances. And this happens a lot today in church. All in the name of 'being united in Spirit', people are made to do stuff that they are not even comfortable with, or cannot justify. Where then is the liberty that Christ sacrificed himself for us to have? Why do we heap to ourselves weights that detract from the confidence with which we may now approach the throne of grace to obtain mercy and grace in time of need? The very weights we are admonished to lay aside, alongside easily besetting sins to run the race that is set before us.

'Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.' Col. 2:16 - 17

Christianity Etc › Re: Pleading The Blood Of Jesus Christ by nuwell(m): 10:49am On Oct 01, 2014*

Brothers,
I have also discovered that too often we make doctrines out of our subjective personal experiences, and worse still, attempt to persuade or even impose them on others. The inevitable result is confusion and discord because such experiences are usually coloured by our prejudices, upbringings, traditions and customs, from which we are being delivered and transformed, as our minds are being renewed by God's word. There's already enough disparity in our backgrounds and cultural values. God presents an entirely new way of life that is not based on any human value system. It is a brand new way of life, not a modification of a pre-existing one

Paul admonishes Timothy in 2Tim 3:16 '...ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine...' among other functions, and not one man's interpretation of the Bible. Besides, 'ALL Scripture' supposes that no part will contradict the other but will rather help to clarify it.

In church today, we find many acceptable and recommended practices with no absolutely no basis in the Scriptures, and hence subject to personal interpretation and application with each new proponent. So many of the doctrines are hand-me-down teachings that are progressively and inevitably distorted as they are passed from one man to the other. But we have the Word of God that stands sure and is a guide throughout the generations to evaluate what is true and is false.

I have asked this same question about this popular practice of using the blood of Jesus, for which I can find no basis in Scripture, besides the fact that it sounds and feels derogatory of Jesus to me sometimes, and fetish and superstitious at other times.

One other problem I observe today is that Christians can't seem to totally accept the truth that Jesus has done all that is necessary to obtain God's approval of us, and that nothing we will do or not do will change God's opinion of us, as long as we abide in Christ. What indeed can separate us from God's love! Why do we feel the need to add something to it rather than just simply believe. The condition in John 3:16 is '....that whosoever believes in Jesus would not perish but have everlasting life.'

Anything we do to please God then should be as a result of a progressively increasing knowledge of God's love (we love Him because He first loved us) and not by some human prescription, from which Jesus has even delivered us. We must come to and remain in God on His terms, not ours. We think too highly of ourselves when we think we can appease God any more than Jesus already has.

'Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?' Gal 3:3

See Colossians 2:20 - 23
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

'This is all that I have learned: God made us plain and simple, but we have made ourselves very complicated.' Ecc. 7:29 (GNB)

1 Like

Jokes Etc › Re: These Signs Made Me Laugh. by nuwell(m): 8:30pm On Sep 29, 2014

texanomaly: Forgive me for the church signs Hun.

What's wrong with them? Aren't they real?

Christianity Etc › Re: Proponents Of "Touch Not My Anointed" by nuwell(m): 5:28pm On Sep 29, 2014

nannymcphee: Don't get you, is it that the link is broken or what?

If its too long, visit the link, it will be properly formatted there

The formatting is just fine, dear. Some things are just too hard apparently to be accepted by some of our brethren at the moment though, understandably.

I endorse ALL that the writer of the article said, from personal experience as well. I pray that the fear of God will in good time, overwhelm the hearts of men once again, first and especially in our assemblies, and that the truth will be told and accepted.

It is for some of the reasons stated in the article that men will receive the woeful admonition 'depart from me, ye workers of iniquity' on Judgment day. I tremble at the blatant audacity with which men conspire to mislead men from the truth and to place on them heavy burdens that they will not lift a finger to carry, as Jesus described the Pharisees of his day.

I am saddened at how many well-meaning Christians have subscribed to the pop culture of church today and refuse to be delivered, even having been confronted with sufficient controversy to at least stir up reasonable questions in their hearts, for which they should at least seek answers from God for.

I conclude though that God is yet Sovereign. He is not clueless or confused about how to deal with this situation. The Elect will yet be saved, and a remnant does indeed remain. If in the face of Elijah's despair at the obvious depravity of the Israelite nation in his time, God had yet reserved 7000 men who had not bowed to Baal, I see the light of hope. Halleluyah!

3 Likes

Romance › Re: Relationship Chess by nuwell(op): 6:33pm On Aug 10, 2014

DrummaBoy: Wonderful read.

Thanks.

Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by nuwell(m): 5:45pm On Aug 10, 2014

Candour: You're correct about the words of God at Babel being generic and that is why I wonder why we Christians seek to appropriate it exclusively to the christian experience. The episode at Babel was about fallen depraved man and God affirmed he still had enough inside him to perform wonders. Is there any wonder then that the atheists, Buddhists, etc in asia are leading the world in technological advancement today? Mankind was given the wherewithal to do things and that ability was never lost. What we lost in eden was immortality. What was cursed in eden was the earth and since our flesh is made from the earth, it will grow weak, die and decay. However as Christians, our souls are redeemed and we now have the spirit of God operating in us. We will get the incorruptible body that will never grow weak and die when Christ comes to take us home.

I agree with you on the other scriptures you quoted and i agree this one below too applies to all humans

Proverbs 10:4 KJV
He becometh poor that dealeth with a slack hand: but the hand of the diligent maketh rich.

Any diligent human being whether christian or not has the potential to make it in life unlike the way modern Christianity has made it look like only financial contributors to the church can succeed leading to superstitions about giving that holds God's children in bondage.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by nuwell(m): 8:15am On Aug 07, 2014

DrummaBoy: OK.

I will attend to your question to the best that my time can permit because Q and A is not the purpose of this thread, its an aside.

I have answered the meaning of the scriptures as listed by mcphee earlier, therefore I will not be touching on those. But I will attend to the question you bolded.

IS THERE A CONSEQUENCE FOR A CHRISTIAN WHO CONTINUALLY SPEAKS NEGATIVELY?

Is there a consequence for a Christian continually indulging in fornication or adultery?

The answer to the two questions is "yes". And the reason is obvious.

But should this two questions not lead us to the true meaning of who a Christian is?

While you do not wish for me to relate this discuss to WOF; that wish is impossible for me to fulfill because the thread is on that subject and virtually everything wrong with the church can be traced to it. So forgive me for again having to refer to them.

WOF has set up systems in much of Christendom. It ranges from "How to give yourself out of poverty"; "How to achieve Breakthroughs"; "How to Attain Blissful Marriages"; "How to Excel in Academics"; and even "How to becomw a Christian". You may not have read any such books but the methodologies abound in church: preach a powerful evangelistic message; bring people to the point of guilt; make an altar call; tell the: "say after me 'Lord Jesus...' "; alas, you are now a Christian. The individual leaves church thinking he is a Christian. There no changed life; there is no encounter with the Savior; he simply joins a community of Christians. They teach him to tithe to make wealth. They teach to speak in tongues. They teach him to speak positively to get result. They warn him of the consequences of not doing these things. In all, he is taught by men the "doctrines of men"; he doesn't know God. He doesn't know what is to be taught by God. That is where I believe the question of "what is the consequence of negative speaking or adultery" came from.

So you can see that while I do not refuse the fact that there are consequences in the Christian life, I am convinced your question is taken from the wrong end.

In my earlier answers, I remember emphasizing the born again man. The man who has met Jesus. The man who knows God and God knows him, like David. The man whom God instructs by his Spirit. Can this man commit adultery? Yes. Will he reap the consequence like David? Yes. Can he speak negatively? Yes. Should he speak negatively. No. Because scripture and the Spirit in him instructs him otherwise. If he does are there consequences? Yes. In either cases does this individual cease being God child? No. Does God have a plan to sanctify him in life from adultery and negative speaking? Yes. Do we have the ability to help God in this work of sanctification? No. Are we called to walk in the Spirit, and thus cooperate with the Spirit in this work of sanctification? Yes. Is it my duty to dictate to another how God will achieve this sanctification? No. Do I have enough business with my own work of sanctification not to poke my nose another person's? Yes.

Again I return to the formulae concept of Christianity that WOF bandy around. It is antiChrist. Christians are enjoined to be Christians: consequences or no consequences. God is our Father, he knows how to work out all that concerns us. We must however mind what we believe because that one has eternal consequences. A false gospel that turns Christianity into a formula and disdains God's sovereignty will damn the souls of men and not just give negative consequences in life.

PS

As to the exact consequences of negative speaking in a believer who indulges it, I don't know. I am not God. But if he is a son, a true one, I believe that whatever consequence, good or bad, will further aid his sanctification in life: thus all things working out for his good.

Potent...the crux of the matter

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Christianity Etc › Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by nuwell(m): 7:56am On Aug 06, 2014

therealMcCain: Imagine someone who always says the following
1. I'm no good
2. I'll never amount to anything
3. I'm barren
4. I'll never succeed in this business
Will this person be productive?

I wonder, what kind of Christian that would be. Such misguided comments could be excused on the grounds of such and one's ignorance of Scripture that reveals what God's will is for the believer because such utterances have no biblical support. If God's opinion of the believer as revealed in His word, is the standard for such a person's life, he/she will not find a basis to think otherwise.
If indeed such a person has been truly spending time in fellowship with the Holy Spirit, such an attitude cannot continue for long because his/her entire perspective of life - conversation and all, will be progressively transformed by the renewing of their minds, to prove (discover, understand and experience) what God's good, perfect and acceptable will, is for them. The image of Christ to which God is conforming us does not tolerate or contain such an outlook.

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Travel › Re: Tex Trex by nuwell(m): 10:17am On Dec 24, 2013

WOW!!!!

SpcAgtOko: Nice lights. Our neighbors look like Christmas threw up in their yard.

That's supposed to be gross. But I think I'll let it fly for want of a better expression to agree with.

Literature › Re: I See Things Others Do Not See... by nuwell(m): 10:37am On Dec 06, 2013

Excellent work so far, Royver. Splendidly crafted.

but why do I have feeling that this is the point at which we discover why Chuks has beeb referring to Nina in the past tense, all this while huh

TV/Movies › Re: Olawale emerges winner of MTN Project Fame West Africa - Season 6.0 by nuwell(m): 8:59am On Sep 26, 2013

In my opinion, this Season evokes reminiscence of Season 3's array of talent and skill. And unfortunately, I haven't been to follow as avidly as I'd have loved to. But it's been a great show, without doubt.

This is why we love Project Fame!

Literature › Re: Grammar Nazi by nuwell(m): 8:51am On Sep 26, 2013

ITbomb: I wont be surprise this trash goes to the frontpage

Epitome of the exact afflictions of the OP. Chai! grin

TV/Movies › Re: Olawale emerges winner of MTN Project Fame West Africa - Season 6.0 by nuwell(m): 8:00am On Sep 16, 2013

jeffoski: Abeg today show really get as e be for me. I didn't really enjoy it compared to lastweek. All d contestant really really tried.

The reggae song choice favour some people and no just help some at all. And den the Dance one hmmmm but they all did well. Abeg let the judges allow dis people do song that will make dem very comfortable and show dia unique potential enough of d experiment na d last lap dem dey now.

Immaculate really tried,her small issue today was dat every great performer tend to get their bad days and today happen to be hers am sure it won't deprive her.

Niniola too. she really tried, baby boy no be beans to perform and she really brought the beyonce sexiness on stage with her dancers. I neva knew she had shape and ass like beyonce too. Is so clear she didn't want to over do d sexiness and not make africa hate her. And d way bibi kept saying she had a beautiful body come dey make me wan suspect bibi.

Olawale,God bless u cos I thought dat chris brown performance will give him issue but he did well.

Omolayo too did well but that his dance song make him look funny, like all dose bros in las vegas.

Roland ,d pastor dat is doing great and mighty tins really try,I really sorry for am,make projectfame no comot the small God anoiting for him body and beautiful Magret who showed why she has neva been on probation. I just love her

I will still stick to my favorite cos she a fantastic singer,a wonderful performer and have a unique personality . Please people Vote for Niniola, Text 13 to 306 using an MTN Line,God bless u and enrich ur pocket as u do so.

LMAO!

TV/Movies › Re: Olawale emerges winner of MTN Project Fame West Africa - Season 6.0 by nuwell(m): 10:12pm On Sep 14, 2013

Yeah. I think i'm well pleased with the standing of the contestants, as it is now.
Now the fun can begin.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Christian Chatbox ( sticky) by nuwell(m): 8:49am On Sep 12, 2013

An0nimus: lol any charge on the other smileys apart from the grin biko..the NL grin is the best ever

I agree totally!

Christianity Etc › Re: The Christian Chatbox ( sticky) by nuwell(m): 2:13pm On Sep 11, 2013

uj_sizzle: lol don't take the bait
He's allowed to stay so long he doesn't break our rules

Yeah, thanks. Just thought I'd bookmark the moment for future reference

Christianity Etc › Re: The Christian Chatbox ( sticky) by nuwell(m): 12:09pm On Sep 11, 2013

Alfa Seltzer: Who cares what you think. Abeg face left and let us chat.

Please, feel free. There's room for more. Just thought I'd mention it, since I haven't see you around these parts before. Welcome anyway

Christianity Etc › Re: The Christian Chatbox ( sticky) by nuwell(m): 11:57am On Sep 11, 2013

Err...Did some folks input the wrong url or click the wrong link? This is THE CHRISTIAN CHATBOX, just so y'all reminded o.
undecided

Christianity Etc › Re: The Christian Chatbox ( sticky) by nuwell(m): 10:29am On Sep 11, 2013

Hey, who's on the hot seat this week na? Abi has that initiative been scrapped?

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