₦airaland Forum

ifyalways:
Odumchi na ChineneyM eeeh.
Unu abuo ka e nweta section ke unu,Ngwa na Arochukwu.

O ginidi sef 
A nam agbali oge nile igu ihe unu na-ede but I always fail . . .and I so dislike that,failing that is.

Ka m jukwa,O putara na unu a maghi ede/asu Igbo Izugbe ka Olumba unu masiri unu nke ukwu?

romeo:
Mba Nna m, Idara ya ada!! Ifysiempre inwaala!

aribisala0:
Guy if the evidence does not fit your agenda ignore.And stick with what does. That seems to be your philosophy

I asked you very specific questions

Are you aware of other books or works that disagree with Ehret?

Why do you prefer Ehret's account to all others

this book says Nri is the oldest kingdom Where ? Igboland,West africa or the Universe.the quote you gave does not answer this very direct question

I cited evidence to show that Kanem Empire was known in the 6th century no response.
The Benin Kingdom before it became an empire was known in 900 AD LOUD SILENCE


Yet you want me to accept this  mediocre nonsense, Remember you called me out by quoting me but lack the intellectual stamina to engage with the issues

.You are  bereft of scholastic willingness to consider alternative  hypothesis and are clearly out of your depth.

Note my moniker .i really do not indulge mediocrity.

My mind is open on the subject but you are incapable or unwilling to exchange ideas meaningfully.

All I hear from you is a book,ONE BOOK, by  this American guy tell us Nri is the Oldest kingdom in Nigeria and we should digest it.

This is the quote you supplied
"The earliest kingdom we know of was the Nri state. In the eight and ninth centuries, it was located to the immediate east of the middle parts if the lower Niger River, an in and along the Northern fringe of the rainforest. It's population was apparently Igbo, "

Once again I ask where is he referring to Igboland,Nigeria,Africa or the Universe?.
Now you say 948 . For your info do not let any white man deceive you there have been Kingdoms in Nigeria before Christ.

odumchi:
I'm not here to toil away and redo work that's already been done. That book I cited clearly explained that Nri is Nigeria's oldest kingdom. If you don't believe the book, google it and if you still don't believe that then I don't know what to tell you.

The book dates the founding of Nri kingdom at 948 ce. If you'd like to dispute that also then go and google it.

aribisala0:
Odumchi try and  talk without assuming that you are next to God in knowledge. Intelligent people provide evidence when they assert. I can say everything you have said and substitute the word LOKOJA FOR NRI.
Oh Odumchi said it. IT must be FACT

SUCH A MONUMENTAL CLAIM AS YOU ARE MAKING REQUIRES MORE SCHOLARSHIP THAN MR CHRISTOPHER  EHRET'S
[b]if you are a sincere enquirer you must tell us whether there are any contradictory views in the literature [/b]and why,on balance,you prefer this one.
To cite one guy who supports your point of view is disingenious and shoddy. You appear only to have sought the evidence for and totally shunned the evidence against of which there is legion.
THIS IS NOT A CHURCH OR MOSQUE where we operate on faith. For you to claim Nri is oldest you should provide research that list at least the top 5 oldest in terms of longevity .Personally I do know which is oldest but i know how to scrutinize claims about it. You quoted me but ignored the bit about KanemBornu. How old is that??
Or is that question inconvenient?
Of course you are entitled to your pet theories but if you must quote me or seek to engage me then you must possess the intellectual curiosity and rigor to question assumptions and consider alternatives.

You talk about organized

please define organized??

for christ's sake ?
Even a man his 3 wives and 10 children are organized!

what exactly is "ORGANIZED"?

You say NOK was not a kingdom it was a culture AND YOU KNOW THIS HOW?
What evidence do you know of that Nri was a kingdom and not a republic?

odumchi:
I'm not here to toil away and redo work that's already been done. That book I cited clearly explained that Nri is Nigeria's oldest kingdom. If you don't believe the book, google it and if you still don't believe that then I don't know what to tell you.

The book dates the founding of Nri kingdom at 948 ce. If you'd like to dispute that also then go and google it.

aribisala0:
Nri was the first group to develop an organized royal hierarchy. 
I go die oooooooooo

ORGANIZED ROYAL HIERARCHY

what is this?

Exactly

where is the evidence for this claim

who were the second

what position are Kanembornu,Benin and Igala[b]

You see the Kanems did not wait for Ehret. They took matters into their own hands and WROTE IT DOWN in a nice little record called The GIRGAM[/b]
WE also know from WRITTEN accounts of Arab scholars ,not wild vainglorious assertions ,of the Kanem Empire's existence in the 9th century.


I like to think before you have an empire you must have had a kingdom at an earlier time,no?
Let me tell you this for a fact :

those people who did WASC or GCE in the 70s/80s and took history, never heard of NRI KINGDOM.
It was not in the textbooks. Certainly Onwubiko did not write about it then.
What is being exposited now is no less than a paradigm shift and needs more than "AUTHORITATIVE DECLARATIONS".
If we are to accept these NEW claims a lot more scholarship is required.
We must remember[b] Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat[/b]
It is incumbent on those who declare/assert to prove NOT on those who deny

aribisala0:
You say . "Its golden years were from the 800s-1100s."

What exactly happened during these golden years?

Would yo be kind enough to share the source of this insight?

Finally on your excerpt from Ehret

That quote "The earliest kingdom we know of was the Nri state."  earliest where? in Igboland,Nigeria West Africa,Africa or the Universe.?
Any such claim must cite a specific year  known or probabilistic in order  to make meaningful comparison so when is the earliest date you can tell us that Nri was in existence(evidence please!)

aribisala0:
Fire and Brimstone!

Please feel free to call me a bigot or whatever else you fancy. Your lack of restraint in abusing people is amusing.
Of course anyone that disagrees  with you is an OBOTE MAN
Effective formula to remove dissent  . Label your opponents and your work is done!

It helps to avoid the real issue

Have there been excavations elsewhere in Nigeria or is it just Nri.
Excavations have shown human presence all over Nigeria for millenia not just 8th century
Certainly the Nok civilization is several millenia old.
The Kanem Bornu empire was around in the 6th century. Surely before you become an empire you start out as a kingdom,no?
There is evidence of people at okigwe thousands of years before Christ!
Excavations at the site of the Kainji dam show metal working 200 years BC
so this Nri is oldest claim deserves scrutiny
There certainly were Nok Kingdoms in Jos long before Nri
It is importhat to define "kingdom"
Any independent community that has a "king" is a kingdom and there have been loads of those in Nigeria for millenia not just the 8th Century

The claim that it is OLDEST [/b]requires evidence.



[b]What evidence is there that NRI is the oldest kingdom in Nigeria   OR that it was indeed a kingdom and NOT a Republic Or even the oldest in Igboland.
Have excavations proven that NRI was a kingdom?


Evidence,evidence,evidence.
Finally we must be wary of assuming that everything excavated from under our feet has something to do with us. Maybe maybe not especially as some excavates are 10000 years old(i say this generally and not about Nri necessarily)

onila:
Odumchi can you move this thread to the romance section. .it doesnt belong here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-843320.0.html

Beowulf:
Odumchi, where in New York are you exactly? I used to live in upper Manhattan before I returned home. I am glad there are young folks listening to all these songs. This is how posterity thrives. I thank God for my parents who played all these "old school" songs around us. We really learnt a lot from these songs-not most of these modern music that is all noise and bereft of content

ChinenyeN:
Okay. New York. I can see how that would help facilitate such a level of in-tune-ness. By the way, let me ask you (just a random question, not intended to diverge away from the Highlife topic), how did you come to know that the bulk of Ikwere were from Aro, Mbaise and Ngwa?

ChinenyeN:
Of course I'm surprised. It's surprising to see someone that young, so in-tune like this, and even displaying a level of fluency in their lect and general Igbo. Are you in the States?
Very true.

Beowulf:
Wesley, Pazienza and ChinenyeN, you guys are making my eyes well up with tears discussing these highlife legends!

Ali Chukwuma, the philosophical bent of his songs make me love him to bits! Maybe because I am melancholic. My brother and I are so crazy about Ali Chukwuma that we  would call each other on the phone and play any new Ali Chukwuma's song we hear to each other. My brother and I are always buying up Ali's CDs. God bless those who has transmitted them into CDs. I am in my late twenties and people laugh at me that I am so old school and should not have been born in this generation. LOL. Do you know that Ali Chukwuma sang a tribute to Celestine Ukwu? I have the song on my BB. You should listen to that song-I promise you you will cry. Is it me or is the Delta Igbo dialect good for making sorrowful songs?

Celestine Ukwu, what can I say about this great man? Songs like "Chekwube Olisa" "uso ndu" "onwunwa abia" keep me grounded and always conscious of my mortality.  He was the most philosophical of his contemporaries. His "igede" remains a masterpiece.

Enyinnaya Abaribe and Peacocks band, God bless them for giving us eternal tracks like "Igbuolam obieze" "nwanne aga alunu nwane alu" "uba bu uwa". That Imo/Abia dialect of theirs did eternal justice to these tracks and ma.

Charles Iwegbue, another great musician with his tribute to Patrice Lumumba. His "ejelunor", "salim ye" are nice gems.

Ofege, Wrinker's Experience should also be commended.

Afam Ogbuotobo, Ozoemena Nsugbue, Okonkwo Asa 77, Okonkwo Adibe, Paulson Kalu, Ikenga superstars are all very worthy of mention.

I could go on and on but let me stop here for now. Didn't know there are so many kindred spirits like you out there

ChinenyeN:


@Topic: Well, I'm going to be honest, I don't really know any names in Highlife except for Sir Warrior and Peacocks International, but I love the musical genre. It's #2 on my list of all-time favorite genres.

Uba Awuu Nwa is one of my all-time favorite songs, period.

Andre Uweh:
You are a pride of Igboland and with the work you have done online, Ndigbo are fond of you. But am so surprised that you do not know that such a celebrated Igbo musician has died since the 90's.
It will be strange for a reggae lover to discuss Bob Marley and Reggae without knowing that the legend has died long time ago.

wesley80:
That explains a whole lot!

Andre Uweh:
Sir Warrior died about 15 years ago, I can't believe you do not know that.

Andre Uweh:
Some of the chaps you listed here are dead e.g sir warrior and Teddy Obinna.

EzeCanada:
I am the great grand son of Eri. The progenitor of the Igbo race. Eri first settled in Obu Gad in Enugu Aguleri, in the present day Aguleri Kingdom.

Eri is one of Gad's son while Gad is one the sons of Jacob. The progenitor of the present day Israel.

Please visit below link for more info and details.

www.Igbofriendsofisrael.com

Abagworo:
I think this aspect of land you discussed is almost universal to every culture but what I mean is this. I for example acquired landed properties in places that I don't have use for them. I did that as a store of wealth. I noticed too that most of my Igbo friends are guilty of same while my non-Igbo friends only buy landed properties where they either want to live or do business making them own maximum of 2 landed properties. I think we have developed a culture of referencing landed properties as the major mark of success to an extent that an Igbo will rather trek to work than to buy a car. He would rather go off town with the car money and acquire a cheap land.

romeo:
Don't be so quick, wait for more standard translations to come. He did not use Igbo Izugbe.

Ndipe:
Which aspects of our culture needs to be abolished in today's era of enlightenment? One is the idea of organizing a lavish funeral upon the death of a relative. People get into debt to satisfy the mandate of tradition for fear of looking bad in front of others or worse, being afraid that the 'ghost' of the deceased (particularly, if they had a high ranking title in the village) haunt them subsequently for dispossessing their corpse in a shallow manner. Cows, Goats, bags of rice are bought and fed to the teeming crowds in expensive uniforms of lace and agbada adorned with pictures of the deceased while guests will praise you, "You don do am, now your papa go rest in peace, not realizing you are under pressure racking your brain on how to offset the bills in the forth coming months or even years.

What else?

One_Naira:
ha, insult upon injury.
What did an Edo man do you?
As an Anambra man, there's a high chance you have an Edo ancestry so there is a high chance you are insulting your great great great great grandfather.

ekt_bear:
Who was the Ibibio/Efik equivalent of Usman Dan Fodio, in this analogy of yours?

jason123:
It is spelt ITSEKIRI (THERE IS NO "H". As there is a "g" in Igbo not Ibo. Thank you!
This is no insult, this is a fact! If anything, the Binis influenced the Western Igbo! Haba! I have never heard an Emeka or Uche as an indigene of Edo state (there may be but I have not heard) but I have heard Balogun, Tunde, Dele etc, I have also heard an Ose, Osa, Omo, etc as Yoruba! Make una clam down with the claims! This is one of the reasons why I would always advocate for Southern Nigeria! As to prevent a crazy war because I know if there is a war among southerners, IT WILL BE THE WAR TO END ALL WARS!!!
The Igbos will not want to give up (read up on the Biafra war and the Arochukwu). The Yorubas also have there pride to keep (read up on the Fulani wars against a single Yoruba clan, not the whole race o! and the Kiriji war). The SS would remain neutrals, an attempt by individuals to hijack our goodwill in the SS will be strongly resisted!

This is Oba of Benin speaking:

romeo:
Don't be so quick, wait for more standard translations to come. He did not use Igbo Izugbe.