₦airaland Forum

AjaanaOka:
All I got from this rather circuitous part of your response is that there are no such claims of Idanre pedigree in Ohafia, otherwise you wouldn't have had any problems discussing your source(s), or at least defending the 'theory' with anthropological/ethnological/linguistic facts. Thank you.



You actually didn't answer my own question about how you came about the claim of Idanre descent in Ohafia. However, I'll answer yours. I am from Awka in Anambra State, but grew up in Enugu, where our next door neighbours were a nice Ohafia family. They spoke the Enugu Township dialect that everyone else there spoke, but when their relatives visited from Ohafia, they spoke the Ohafia dialect with them. Yes, it wasn't easy to understand them, but when they spoke slowly, it was considerably easier. We made fun of some of the differences in the way they said things. For example, when they said "Come and bathe", it sounded like, "Come and drink water". And their word for "sorry" , sounded like "vehicle" to us. All in all, I could converse with their relatives if they spoke slowly and if a random strange word here and there were explained to me.

The thing to understand about Igbo, as with other dialect continuums including your own Yoruba, is that mutual intelligibility decreases as you move away from the centre towards the periphery. Ohafia is on the periphery of the Igbo-speaking space, on the border with the Ibibioid groups. Other Igbo-speaking people in that axis (including Abiriba, Arochukwu, Item, even Bende etc) will have no difficulty holding a conversation with an Ohafia man. As you move from that periphery into the hinterland from the Ohafia axis, mutual intelligibility progressively drops, until mutual intelligibility becomes noticeably low. But nowhere along the line does intelligibility break down completely.

This is not much different from the Yoruba-speaking space, where an Ikale man may not have the easiest of time holding a conversation with an Ibarapa man, but the same Ikale man may converse with greater ease with people from nearby dialect areas like Owo or Ijebu.

You actually drifted away from the point I stated .

I do not have any problem with anyone who claims descent from any group because there is dynamism in human history.

Secondly, my source is a well known family, who can be classified as next in rank to the royal family. Infact, a male descent of that family told me this story of his family ,which surprise me !

So, there is nothing like Yoruba wanting a claim over an Ibo/Igbo territory which will never work. Therefore, probe deep into some of these people's history if such claim is false or true butheaffirm it to me to be true.

As I chat with you,my source is in the East in his home town, which I know once he comes back to his place of work, I will enquire from to pin his family ancestral name.

AjaanaOka:
Who are these Abia indigenes that claim they migrated from Idanre axis? I am aware of more recent claims by Ohafia to have come from Benin. I call them recent claims, by the way, because the claims appeared on record questionably recently, and are not contained in older documentations of the Ohafia origin story.

Idanre origins in Abia, I've never heard before. Where did you source this information from?

You may not had heard but people know their history. State formation is with its dynamism.

And I expect people to do more research here on any information being posted on what I posted on Ohaafia people. It is important to note here that the whole of Ohafia didn't come from Idanre axis.

And importantly, I didn't posit here that Ohafia are Yorubas but that historically, some groups are posited to had migrated from Yoruba axis

My question is,how intelligible is Ohaafia dialect is to central Ibo language ?

How many other Ibo/Igbo speaking groups hears Ohaafia(spelling my be wrong )dialects ?

duro4chang:
We learn everyday.

Ofcourse yes, we do.

UGBE634:
Igala not Edo, thank you because some of the words for something as basic as body parts,sleep etc between Edo and yoruba/Igbo seem to be starkly different

Not only Igala though, even Kaaba-Yorubas-Igaara people. Even other Edo groups are plausible to had migrated into some Eastern region.

It is absolute wrong to use few seemingly true cognates as the basis of relationship between two big ethnic groups without core study.

duro4chang:
That means both tribes have nothing in common

I will never never state such. But certainly, people who fled Igodomigodo during Oranyan invasion were a bridge between Yoruba and Ibo/Eastern Igbo. The Kaaba Igala interaction seal it more.

Infact there are Abia indgenes (some Ohafia people)who claimed they migrated from Idanre axis many centuries ago to their new homestead.

And it can be clearly understood the reason there are people trying to forcefully claim Yoruba and Ibo were of the same stock when infact, the cause of such was a result of close proximity through intermarriages. Anything outside this is on emotional basis.

duro4chang:
What has yoruba done for you? I was told yoruba and Edo are related and also united

Leave these pro Yoruba/Ibo ancient relationship theorists.

All these linguistic relationship between ibo and Yoruba came to be a result of Igala influx into Eastern Region. And the time frame is about six hundred years or thereabout.

There is no iota of doubt about this fact. Core linguistic comparison between Yoruba and Ibo is farfetched.

LightOnScams:
While we agree that Itsekiri being related to the Oyo Yoruba, why do you consider it a subgroup of a language far up North than others in the same SE language stock? We know why. The spread you talk about started with the Oyo/Ibadan military expansionism.

Personally and to many, the use of the term dialect to refer to Itsekiri is in many ways derogatory. Itsekiri, according to most, broke out earlier from the Proto-Yoruba-Iteskiri group just like the Igalas did earlier. Why force the subgroup term on them? I'm curious

So Itsekiri is related to Oyo than Iléifẹ and other settlement such as Ijebu, Ilaje, Bini,Igala etc ? Wonders shall never end on NL.

UGBE634:
There is nothing like constantly attacking the Oba of Benin and Edo people, because I said the Oba is from Ile-Ife did not in anyway insinuate an attack on his person. himself agreed to at least have something to do with Ile-ife or because I reeled out some of the policies he embarked upon which are not favourable to the course of the Binis today is what you term "constantly attacking the Oba of Benin quote any of my comment in which I talked about the Oba of Benin outside of these two areas and tell me how these comments can be termed attack,

Please quote any of my comment where I have attacked other Edo people (except your dunderhead disciple, gregyboy who insulted me first and I gave back in equal measure,the others we discussed as mature men without insult bringing up fact here and there)and comment outside as it pertains to the Oba of Benin where I admitted that the Oba at least has something to do with Ile-ife whether going to or coming from as he himself agrees to and also about the policies he embarked upon and how it can be termed attack, I challenge you

Even paul rebuked peter, the head of the church in the Bible, Appolos doctrine was different from that of Paul, let's live bro, the sky is big enough for everyone

You are not the one sharing the Edo identity, it is an Identity bestowed on me by my ancestors through my father, it is an Identity I am very proud of, it is not an Identity which anyone can take away from me , anyone that seems to comment along your thoughts process is an Edo, anyone that comments differently is not, we are not robots or cowards in my family, we tell elders where they've erred, that does not mean we don't love them, if I don't love the Oba of Benin, I won't bother to defend him,this section is replete with my comment where I have strongly defended the Oba passionately, these are some of them, I would have ignored this, but I would not be here forever. You cannot label me because I did not follow your "there is no Ogiso talk"

Quite interesting seeing an Edo man submitting to the actual truth on the patrilineal ancestors of Oba Bini coming from Ileife. A realist is who you are and not idealist.

scholes0:
YORUBA
Ijẹrin - The day before the day before
Ijẹta- Day before yesterday
Ana - Yesterday
Oni - Today
Ọla - Tomorrow
Ọtunla - Day after tomorrow
Ọtunrin - The day after the day after

Eṣi - The general time/period before today

Èṣin/Èṣi is last year or previous year

Maazieze:
I am disgusted by this thread, only the castrated dare link their lineage to some people more then 5000km away, what madness colonialism has brought

Digusted ? If the Eastern group of Ibo or modern day Igbo who are in close proximity to Yoruba Race group uses bia/bianu which the English version means "come."

And the Ancient Hebrew use Bo/boa/ bowa/ to mean same English version's "come." This same is found as standard for come in Yoruba language, which can be stated as Bo/Boa/Bowa. Is it not right for experts to do research on it ?

Infact, the language spoken in ancient Egypt called Coptic/korbit by the founder of Orthodox Christianity was foreign language spoken in Egypt and it is absolutely Yoruboid language.

If the 5000 miles people's language tally with Yoruba language, then is it not worth researching on it ?

Are you not aware the Yoruba gene were found in Northern Europe which is over 100,000 years ago ? Yoruba Race is a unique breed. And if you do not like the Yoruba Race or research work proving certain fact, then pass by, after reading the thread.

Finally, are you aware of the story of Hanno the warrior who sailed through Carthaginian area to West Africa ? His name "Hanno" is Yoruboid. Hanno being written from Greek form to English language ,means Mercy, gracious . The name means Anu; mercy,gracious inYoruba language.So,do not be hypertensive on Yoruba matters.


Cheers

kumulus:
What's going on my chief?? typos or deliberate?

Nothing my dear brother.When people interact online, this does not mean, one need be over careful when typing messages. What is important is the content and not the typo error or whatever it may look like.

k2money:
I know agboniregun is also Orunmila also bàbà kékeré òkè igẹtí. I think we are saying the same he's from heaven doesn't have parent and he's second hand of Jesus just like the Christian sees their lord Jesus. I hail you àwo.

I greet dear brother.
I got your point now. I think, it is a stolen identity and religion of the Yorubas. Anyway, I know the perspective of Christianity on Eshua/Yeshua.

k2money:
Abọru abọye ní lè ifá. Am not an ifá practitioner but I love tradition and have researched a lot about it. Agboniregun lives in òkè igẹtí but is not physically born and he did not die physical death. I learnt he also live in some part of Africa countries and some Latin Americans countries. So I stand to be corrected on Orunmila origin. Àwo enlighten me more because what I know is that he only have celestial parents.

Your said intro is not inline. Anyway, it is good to you are trying toknow more about ifaodu and orisha practitioners.

Although, you may not know, agbọnìrègùn is also same as orúnmílà. And like I had mentioned earlier a lot can be deduced from his earthly attributes and heavenly's.

He is fatherless and motherless. He is simply known as the ibikéjì Elédùmárè (the other side of Eledumare) who manifest all the saying of Eledumare through ifa to mankind.

Lastly; adaba kekeluke
adaba kekeluke kò sí ilẹ̀ tí wọn kò tí mọ̀ ifá.
adaba kekeluke(sage) there is no land ifá is
not known

k2money:
I know little about Orunmila and yeshua. Órúnmìlà, first of all nothing like Jesus in Hebrew language he's yeshua Joshua in English language. Ela is the light to all darkness. Orunmila is the nickname given to him as ọrùn ní ò mọ ẹni ó là. Only ọrùn knows who will make it. As far as am confirm ela is also known as ọrùn, they call him ọrùn because they all beleif he descend from sky as nobody knows where he came from. Bàbá ifá go far nobody can know it all just like science. I once heard odù that recite Jésù and his mother and same as Muhammad.

Well, atleast, you have an idea of this personality identified as the ibikéjì Elédùmárè in ifáodu. Also known with different names such as Ẹlẹ́ri ipin, atún orí ẹni tí kò sunwọ́n ṣé, Bábá yẹ̀kúyẹ̀kú etc

And His place of origin is not unknown to someone like myself and other practising ifá devotees. So, I advise you learn more about Orúnmílà and His place of origin which is heavenly. Even His role in creation of earth.

k2money:
There's is Ọlọrun the one who owns heaven also known as Olódùmarè, oṣù má rè. Rainbow �. Ẹ̀la is brightness just like Christians will tell you yesua, jewesu is the light. So Orunmila is Yoruba Jesus not almighty God.

From what angle are you translating these words from ? In proper Yoruba traditional setting, your postulation are wrong.

Kindly get knowledge from Ifá priests to put you through.

Ẹlà is a name of Orunmílà

Orunmílà is a nickname; description of the preaching of Ẹlà to identify him with who may be saved on earth.

Another Ẹlà is the son of Oyigi. This Ẹlà was an apprentice of Ẹlà(Orúnmílà).He walked the face of the earth and did wonders as the primordial Ẹlà did.


Another Ẹlà is the son of Mòremi. This Ẹlà was given up by his mother,who had vowed to sacrifice his only child if she was able to get the secret behind the marauders disturbing iléifẹ.

Ẹlà as light is another variation of its meaning.
E là means illusion and called light also. La has homonymous in nature as one can see in other Yoruba words or names.

Jewesu is false odu. Jewesu is not Jesus. Kindly do not follow people who are hell bent in creating identity for Jesus in ifaodu. I am very familiar with ancient Hebrew language. If it is about anything that has to do Hebrew's Ẹlà, then I can take up the issue.

kumulus:
Your use of diacritics has me lost, not the first time.

I got you your point. Ikú mọ̀ uyi and not ikú mọ́ uyi. Typo error often happen due to hasty response. My bad.

Nearly all times,I read Yórúbà statement or posts, I struggle to understand without diacritics even if I use intuition to flow with it.

kumulus:
Chief, I only typed curiosity's response to your post.

- Fingers

Lol! Chief kẹ̀ ¿ Just a student learning the Yoruba enigmatic worldview

kumulus:
Of course no one is making textiles native to the SW compulsory across board, I'm sure I mentioned 'local fabrics ' in the post. Every region has textiles native to their people and kindreds.

How's it possible I didn't read your view and I quoted same in response, what is it you're insinuating. Come on!

Okay. What I am actually in support of promoting Yoruba textile. That is my point.

kumulus:
Hmm....not satisfied, will press somewhere else. Thanks

You do not need to be satisfied on it because it is what the praise stands for whichwas and is part of panegyric of Ooni and descendants once they become king,which the praise is originally from Iléifẹ. Although Ọlọ́yọ́ Atiba descendants popularised it.

This is the same way Ọlọ́yọ́ Atiba descendants change the title of Olú Ọyọ́ contracted of Ọlọ́yọ́ to Aláafin in 1837/1838/1839 and popularise the praise name.

kumulus:
Those who answer this name say it is 'ikumuyiwa' although I don't think it is but that is what the "authorities" of the name claim.

Ikúmíywá is different from ikúmúyi. If you are making reference the former,'ikúmúyíwá still means positivism in the sense of reincarnation.

Like I had mentioned earlier, ikú is nothing but a passage from earthly realm to the heavenly realm of ancestors. Literary translation ikú-death- múyíwá-brings -iwá-aback the loved one/this one

This is affirm in odus in ifá which emphasise death as a passage. Thus reincarnation exist for purpose one who died need come back to perform on his return. So, ikúmúyí is not same as ikúmúyíwá.

cayorday89:
Thanks for this, this is the surname of a friend in Uni and she does not even know the meaning when we asked her.

It takes being a deep Yoruba learner to have grip on many of these things which cannot be got from the street, school or anywhere except under ifa priests or òrìṣà practitioners.

Okuríbído/Okunríbúdo/Okuríúbúdo/ Okunríúbúdo is linked with òrìṣà ajé or olókun. This person who bears this name is supposedly from a family of an ifa practioner ancestrally if he or she decided to go into research on it.

So, do not blame her or him because these names are linked anciently with one deity or another. And some of us dissociate from our ancestrally names as cursed names. Yet Oyinbo bears stone, wood,hill,Rich etc

It is noteworthy to assert here that Yoruba names are linked to their ancestrally lineage and such names are never evil or projecting evil as some educated anglophone Yoruba oriented but uneducated in Yoruba language posit by shouting Holyghost fire on their ancestral names.

Ancient Yorubas were taught in ifaodu about evil which are in different forms but termed ibi or ajogùn or ṣọ́ta ẹni, or ṣọ́tẹ ẹni etc. Hence reason for ifaodu consultation for necessary appeasement to be taken and if one needs do some fasting (Isèra/imúradúro) one is told to so do by the priest.

kumulus:
How did 'u' become 'ọ́'? I've never seen or seem to have heard such before now.

the dialect factored in. Ikú mọ́ uyi is same as iyi

If you speak lagos dialect , Ibadan's, stint of ọyọ́'s then ,certain lettering may seem strange to you.The Lagos Yoruba is an offshoot of all dialects though and became compressed for all users.

Apart from this, contraction is also factoring in Yoruba language, reason being that name given are always descriptive to all things. Only few exception which falls within loaned words.

kumulus:
Is Yoruba a religious or a socio-cultural system?

No! Both .Yoruba group are multiRacial,religious and pride to be part of the pioneer of people who begun humanity.

kumulus:
Can you help break down the saying; 'ikú bàbá yèyé'?

Death Father Mother
The glorification is to assert mighty power of a king who does as he wishes freely. This saying is about Absolute authority bestowed upon a king who is able to do and undo as he pleases.

kumulus:
It is beyond identity of any tribe....it is chiefly about revamping the economy. In your spare time, try calculate the estimated amount of acquiring school uniform materials for all school age children in the country per year (take note most wards have at least a pair per term and there are three terms in a year). Making it mandatory for all to wear local fabrics to offices and classrooms will resuscitate the dead textile industry within a few years, thereby creating jobs across the chain of supply. Putting a big stop to fx flight in JUST one industry.

Imagine

I do not share in your Nigeria's entity's projection. I make reference to Yoruba entity as you haven't read my view. Adire, Kampala, Ankara etc are narrowed down to Yoruba schools within her confine.

1Sharon:
Okay you explained that Kumuyi and Ikuseka are positive but you never explained Ikujenyō and there are many 'Iku' names I could list if you like.

So Olu-to-da-iwā is the same as Orunmila?

Is Orunmila the supreme God in yoruba religion?

Like I had stated, ikú is created by Elédùmárè,(Almighty God) which is not a form of negativism but change in phase of people from the earthly realm to the heavenly part where ancestors dwell.

So, whatever name which has ikú as prefix, can be understood by you,since I have given you the clue. The knowledge of ifáodù does not make initiates fear ikú (death) because each individual on earth came from the heavenly place for a purpose and has chosen a path to follow on earth. Be it with longlife or shortlived. Even wealthy or poor. A path had been chosen

Y ou see,this teaching of mine were also learned from older or senior onifa/ Olifa or Babalawo aswell , who are our guide in our spirituality.

For clarity, Is it Olú tíó dà ìwà or Olú tíó dà awa, you mean ? I do not get your question accurately.

cayorday89:
Any idea what OKURIBIDO truly means...

This is òku/òkun rí ibi udò/òku/òkun rí ibúdo (wealth's abode/ wealth has abode/wealth's living place.

duro4chang:
I don't understand you at all.

Ifa priests are the peope you need to learn from so as that you do not use your own Translation to understand yoruba names from originality. It does not work as you think.

Are you aware Elú or Olú is a royal name and not chiefs or noble's name ancestrally ? This name is common in today's usage by all Yoruba people but not so in the ancient times. So it is with names associated with obatala ,ọpa association,sọpọna etc practitioners.

1Sharon:
We don't have to make poor decisions in the name of saluting our identity.

Ankara just wouldn't work.

Have you seen any school in the world that wears their cultural atire as uniform?

Ankara attire is workable. Well, how do judge what kind of fashion is up to date ? European fashion sense and Americas ?

1Sharon:
From what I've researched online, ancient yorubas saw death as a spirit.

Yes, he became a spirit after he was defeated. This is what is stated by ifaodu. So,there are spiritbeings sent by Eledumare to go upon earth and heaven.

In the ancient,he came like police to pick people up whose time were up when sin arrived on earth after the law of Eledumare was broken or disobeyed. One day, he came and was defeated.

duro4chang:
Not all names with Iku are abiku's names. Some are and some are not. I will soon create a thread that explains the believe of yoruba about death.

. Ifá priests will educate you further. Ordinarily, you are supposed to be well vast before creating any threadbof such because Yoruba names are never wuruwuru in making. Anyway, enjoy thyself.