₦airaland Forum

I say YES they are forming, but slowly.
It will garther momentum as 2015 approches.

[size=16pt]Nigeria: Are new nations forming even without SNC? [/size]

By Onyebuchi Onyegbule
Thursday, March 08, 2012

The Southwest called it ‘Regional Integration’ stating quickly that, ‘Regional integration is not to break up Nigeria…. but simply put, a strategy for national integration’. That integration is first economic: to create an economic zone contiguous with Edo state using politics as ‘driving force’ and primarily, ‘ensure they retain political power and continue to drive southwest integrated regional agenda’.

Law: to create ‘a robust legal framework for Southwest regionalization and ensure that the laudable agenda is not reversed’. Security: Southwest legislators to lobby for the creation of state police. Culture: to preserve Yoruba as a living language and make it a prerequisite for admission into tertiary institutions in the South-west from 2015.

[b]Transportation: to approach the federal government for the take-over of federal roads in the area. Sports: to pool resources to fund a regional football club in the mould of Enugu Rangers, which approximated the Igbo spirit after the Nigerian Civil War and finally, anthem and logo: ‘to adopt the State of Osun Anthem …… as the Southwest Regional Anthem which captures the correct spirit and sentiment behind integration for regional development …. and for the same reason, to adopt the crest of the State of Osun as the regional logo’.

What’s left? Perhaps a fighting force which could quickly grow from a state police and a name, maybe encased somewhere already. A people have a right to choose the way they want to live as well as with whom. Precisely, if restructuring or decline were to take place today, the Southwest would want to be with Edo. But why Edo? Maybe, Oduduwa ancestry. Maybe contiguity. If both planks define the criteria, the Afonja factor of its northern neighbor, Kwara qualifies too, yet muted. So they aren’t the real reasons. It’d be interesting to know if the Edos are equally as up-beat.
[/b]
Reasons: present Edo State is part of a commonwealth of minorities where ‘you-are-like-I-am’ reigns: Ibibio/Ijaw/Uhrobo/Efik/Bini/Ogoja/Itsoko, etc., are at par and have inadvertently adopted pidgin as their lingua franca. This is where the Edo has muscle and can rub shoulders without being rubbished. It’s not the same as being curdled into an arrangement where ab-initio, you have no choice but flow with a living language already asterisked a prerequisite. In such an arrangement, one culture will definitely swallow the other as well as its members’ identities. Egalitarianism rather than contiguity/ancestry appears a better bind.

[b]Just recently, a coalition numbering 3,000 and comprising ethnic nationalities and groups from the North-central, Southeast and South-South geo-political zones converged in Enugu to hold an all-night vigil in honor of the departed icon-of-courage, Dim Emeka Ojukwu in what they called ‘a-handshake-across-the-Niger’. Their aim like the Southwest coalition’s is to keep power beyond 2015. Spurred by the eruptive Asari-Dokubo, they stood on stone to tell whoever cares to listen that they-are-here. You may call it an emerging common identity or so.

One thing’s sure though, it’s a rising bottom-up power bloc in contrast to the southwest brand which’s more like a top-down stuff where leaders tell the people the way to go. Here, it’s the people showing themselves and their leaders the way. Interesting is, should this power bloc eventually emerge as a separate entity, the coterie of minorities meeting an apparent majority will cancel out dominance to produce balance. Such balance will definitely neutralize primordial instincts rooted in origin/majority/minority and release the needed dynamic to propel society. It’d untie people and set them to soar. That way, the spirit of productive competitiveness activates the kinetics required to stand-out in the 21st century and beyond. People want this.
[/b]
[b]Both variants provide mind-roses. The only stale brand is brand-Boko which’s causing a drag on the north. Northerners want to be free but aren’t rising up to the threat on hand. Boko wants to Islamize everybody but with bombs that kill the Islamized and non-Islamized alike. If peradventure the three variants somehow anchor, we’re likely to see the Hand-Shake-Across-The-Niger and Southwest brands soaring and perhaps, drawing up structures to complement one another.

The Boko-variant has one direction: backwards if the north does nothing now. What should FG do? Nothing. Just keep the peace and allow the people to naturally sort themselves out. Let the tare and the wheat grow. By 2014, the harvest time, groups will have known their agreed domains. Only then can they talk more meaningfully in a possible national confab. This blending/cleavage period should quietly go on undisturbed. After the people have drawn their separate agreements, government can then harmonize.

That’s the real confab. A Confab of people who’ve agreed by choice to be/live together. Call it restructuring but it could well be more.[/b]

Onyegbule writes from Lagos.


http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/features/freekick/2012/mar/08/freekick-08-03-2012-001.html

In another thread, I said that Fulani invasion is a form of scoping insurrection whereby these fulanis are conducting DETAILED MILITARY operations to mark their future territories.
Anyone caught sleeping by these stratagems will be sorry.

[size=16pt]Fulani invasion: Death toll rises to 43 [/size]

From ROSE EJEMBI, Makurdi
Thursday, March 08, 2012
Death toll in the early Sunday invasion of Tiv settlements in Gwer West Local Government Area of Benue State by armed Fulani herdsmen has now been put at 43, even as 15 villages were sacked.

This is just as the people of the area have called on the state and Federal Government to, as a matter of urgency set up an independent judicial commission of enquiry to investigate the killings with a view to identify and bring the culprits to justice.

Addressing newsmen yesterday at the NUJ House in Makurdi, indigenes of Gwer West, at the end of their meeting, lamented the incessant invasion and gruesome murder of their people by Fulani herdsmen.
In a communique signed by the President and Secretary of Tyoshin Youth Association, Joseph Mom and Dr. Joseph Kerker, the indigenes expressed shock over the scale of destruction of lives and property by the Fulani invaders without any provocation.

They disclosed further that thousands of people had been displaced and were taking refuge in various locations while foodstuff worth millions of naira were also destroyed in the melee. Armed with some gory pictures of those who were gruesomely killed during the invasion, Mom said: “We consider this as a cruel and barbaric act, since we do not share any boundaries with these invaders.”

Mom, who was supported by the council chairman of the local government, Andrew Ayande and some prominent elders in the area, maintained that the Gwer West FADAMA area by the south bank of River Benue was the higest source of agriculture and economic activity of the people of the area especially for rice production and other cereals thus rendering the area highly unconducive for grazing activities.

“We are concerned that despite the effort by the state, local government and security agencies, the invaders have displayed superior military capabilities to overcome and overwhelm our communities.”

http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/news/national/2012/mar/08/national-08-03-2012-020.html

If I use MTN it would be childish to switch it off. This is a battle between the Nigerian government and South African government. The government should do whatever they have to do to restore some dignity to Nigerians. That is the least they can do for us after stealing so much of our money.

^^

You want them to thank you for killing Adaka Boro.
You want them to thank you for owning more oil blocks than them.

This whole thing is so funny and really shows how lowly the rulers of Nigeria have rendered her in the international community. Without doing much number crumching, I would guess that South Africa makes BILLIONS of clear dollars from Nigeria yearly, and they do so by providing SERVICES mainly: telecom for example.
Nigeria makes billions too from South Africa from supply of oil, our main foreign exchange earner. In other words, they make money almost from nothing tangible, while we make money by selling our life blood tangible goods to them.

I would guess that Nigeria can EASILY find another buyer for her oil in the world markets, but I doubt that South Africans can EASILY sell her services to another country the size of Nigeria's population; which for example is why their telecom company MTN makes more money from Nigeria than South Africa.
The amount of dollars remitted by Nigerians in South African can never amount to more than $100m yearly, while South Africans remit BILLIONs out of Nigeria yearly.

So if we replace them with other oil buyers, we are basically left with a few million dollars to show for our relationship with South Africa.
At times like this, I wish there are Nigerians with my type of "genius" to deal with the South Africans, who are arguably the most wicked Africans there are; the only country in Africa to conduct a quasi-pogrom against other Africans living in their country.

By the time Nigeria finishes with South Africa, not only would they lose Nigerian market and cooperation in Africa, we would effectively cage them diplomatically in West Africa, and move very close to their borders by "capturing" all their neigbhors and turn them against them.

My disappointment is that Nigeria will mess up this opportunity again; a rare opportunity to deal with these xenophobes once and for all. 

Only the UN can conduct a census that would be acceptable to all Nigerians. This is the sad fact.
Even the UN will face tough challenges producing a credible census in Nigeria, but at least the UN would be an outsider (hopefully) with no local interests.
We cannot have this conference without proper representation, and we cannot have proper representation without a credible census.
Nigeria is truly fkced up.

GenBuhari:
Why are you gloating at Nigeria's misfortune? 

See even Cameroonians are now laughing at us 


I am just jesting 

If things continue as they are in 20 years time, oil may have dried up, or may no longer be worth much money.

Nigerians would be the poorest people in the world, there would be mass starvation, as in Sudan.

The country y descend into a long drwn out civil war and may disintegrate completely like Somalia or Afganistan pre- 911, being run by hundreds of warlords.

With no oil the united nation would leave us to our fate, as in Somalia.

I don't see how I can disagree with all the bolded words, except that perhaps it will disintegrate BEFORE it gets to the starvation stage.

I would not touch OBJ with a long pole if I were Akpabio, even if he saved my life.
The guy is a political baggage that can deal a death blow to his future political ambitions. Nuff said.

^^

How I wish that Nwankwo had fired that pistol. They'll all probably be dead, but at least they would die with their aggressors.

Justcash:
THOSE PEOPLE THAT SAID NIGERIA WILL LOSE ARE FREAKING JOKING!

South Africa's gat to make a choice between chasing out Nigerians and losing the collaboration of Nigeria and her huge domestic consumption base. You guys probably don't know how attractive Nigeria is as a low manufacturing country and a high importing/consumption country. [/b]South Africa is advanced in production, and need big markets for their products and advanced services. Egypt, China, India etc gat high production rate and equally advanced services, which makes them less attractive than Nigeria for finished products and services.
Meanwhile, apart from the illegal Nigerians in that country, genuine Nigerians go there to spend money and return. Those that are there help in improving their domestic consumption rate and also pay taxes when they work or do biz. The fact that they don't come here to spend and we go there more is a good reason for them not to lose Nigeria.

[b]Comparatively, South Africa is benefiting more and will lose more.

hehe! I was thinking just the same thing.

But truth be told, that this debate is even going on is shameful.
Nigeria is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of SA in some very important areas which I cannot mention here lest some folks start thinking that I'm happy with the state of things in Nigeria.
If Nigeria even decides to sit down and negotiate Nigeria properly, Nigeria's economy and production will eclipse South Africa's within 5 years.
Well, I wish the Nigerian government good luck with this one.  

Yea I'm leaving too. I'll be back later.

PhysicsQED:
I don't think you actually understand the real conditions Biafra had to meet to get full French support, so I suggest you read up on the specifics of that. Had the rest of Africa supported Biafra, the French would have been solidly behind Biafra instead of the lesser support they gave. They needed to see greater support within Africa, but it never came.

Let me just say lets agree to disagree on this point because I really don't want to discuss it more.

I could accept that Ifeajuna wanted to do that, but not Nzeogwu. Nzeogwu doesn't seem like somebody with the requisite intelligence to think in such ethnic conquest (of Fulanis) terms. He was naive and he was a one Nigerianist.

As for what they wanted to stop in Jan. 1966, I'm not going to get into another discussion of that. But let's just say that my opinion of both 1966 coups is fairly negative.

Perhaps Ifeajuna and co. did make it a priority to kill Fulanis but they ended up killing leaders that were head and shoulders above most of the politicians of Nigeria. If the Sardauna had played a prominent role in the North for another 20 years, it might be an almost entirely different place.

The point is that my folks tried to solve the Fulani problem early enough, and that most Nigerian tribes still don't understand what they tried to do.
Like I said, it is a high stakes game. Perhaps if the British didn't intervene, the North would have seceded under Gowon. Problem solved.
Again I hate round robin debates that achieve nothing. So, I drop this too.

lol, you didn't read what I wrote? There were even some southerners involved in the July coup!

The western region premier was killed because of his buddy status with Ironsi and possibly even with the Jan. 1966 coupists. The other leader was killed for siding with Ironsi.

I DO NOT see Ironsi as a representative of the south in any way. The kind of decisions he made would not have been condoned by the entire south if they had a say, but probably only by his own group of followers and advisors.

There were also Northern and Western soldiers in the January coup, so you still don't understand my Peter, Paul, John analogy.

Did you understand the point I was making there? If the world will deny Ethiopia access to the sea, and not even let it engage in modern colonization of Eritreans who are almost "the same people" (as you and me both agree), then there is no possible reason it would allow a later incursion by virtual strangers from the far north into other territory (whether Yoruba, Igbo, or southern minority) without remaining neutral or siding against the invading strangers. It wouldn't support the incursions, when they have no political legitimacy or justification.

No, you did not understand the point I was making about Ethiopians and Eritreans being one people.
Fulani led Nigerian troops killed and starved 2 million people to death just to enforce their rule on Nigeria.
That is almost the total population of Eritrea as of when the "war" raged. The Ethiopians never used scotch earth strategies agains the Eritreans, probably because they are same people. It will not be like that in Nigeria.

lmao, trust me nobody who deserves their freedom would be silly enough to ask the major groups to do anything for them (although they shouldn't even be in the position to have to consider such, if not for the British).

As Ho Chi Minh of Vietnam said, "As for me, I prefer to sniff French poo for five years than to eat Chinese poo for the rest of my life".

Trying to win a far flung war in Ogoniland or Ijawland or elsewhere would be a catastrophic waste of time and resources, and the North could never successfully maintain control of these places. You're implicitly granting them capabilities that they have never come close to exhibiting.

The bolded is very funny because the whole of Nigeria has already  been "eating French poo"(not sniffing it)  since the July coup of 1966, and will DEFINITELY continue eating it long after Igbo is gone.  

This is the KEY point.

[size=16pt]”It is the responsibility of any Yorubaman that is in any political party that goes against benefit of Yoruba, to defect from that party and join a party that believes in the agenda of the Yoruba.”[/size]

I cannot quarrel with this at all

[size=16pt]S-West govs, others chart common agenda for regional dev[/size]

By CLIFFORD NDUJIHE, OLASUNKANMI AKONI & MONSUR OLOWOOPEJO

LAGOS — GOVERNORS of the South-West geo-political zone and eminent persons from the area, yesterday, took a dispassionate view on the state of socio-economic and political development in the area and lamented that the zone had fallen below the template set by the late sage, Chief Obafemi Awolowo.

At the official presentation of a Strategy Roadmap for the Development Agenda for Western Nigeria, DAWN, at Lagos City Hall, leaders of the zone said it was time for well-meaning Southwesterners to join forces and re-enact the winning policies of yore, which saw the defunct Western Region setting the pace in terms of development in the country.

Specifically, the leaders, who pledged to cooperate, harped on the need to pursue a common agenda and regional integration on education, transportation, economy and infrastructure among others.

Drawn from all parts of South-West and Yoruba-speaking areas of Kogi and Kwara states, the leaders included all the six governors of the region, with the exception of Dr. Olusegun Mimiko (Ondo), who sent a representative.

Others were Asiwaju Bola Tinubu, Dr. Fredrick Fasehun, retired Generals Adeyinka Adebayo and Alani Akinrinade, Dr. Doyin Salami, Dr. Tokunbo Awolowo-Dosumu, Chief Bisi Akande, Rev Tunji Adebiyi, Mr Fola Adeola, Wale Oshun and Dipo Famakinwa.

Governors at the historic gathering on a day that  Chief Awolowo would have turned 103 years if he were alive, were Mr. Rauf Aregbesola (Osun), Mr. Babatunde Fashola (Lagos), Dr. Kayode Fayemi (Ekiti), Senator Ibikunle Amosun (Ogun) and Senator Abiola Ajimobi (Oyo). Mimiko was represented by one of his commissioners, Sola Etisemi.

Other leaders at the parley included Mr Opeyemi Agbaje, Jimi Agbaje, Senator Olabiyi Durojaiye,  Prof Wale Omole, Senators Femi Ojodu and Sola Adeyeye, former Speaker Dimeji Bankole, Yomi Idowu, Rotimi Obadofin and Mrs Jumoke Ajasin-Anifowoshe, among others.

Chaired by Fola Adeola, the event, which was organised by Afenifere Renewal Group (ARG) saw speaker after speaker, who spoke in Yoruba language, decrying how low the region had fallen in the last 45 years. They canvassed, as a matter of urgency, steps towards a regional cooperation and integration among the South-West states to boost socio-economic development.

Hinging the realisation of this lofty height on a “composite Yoruba Development Agenda (YDA), ARG stated that the vision was “an integrated Region that will make a difference to the lives and well-being of our people, as we make the South-West Region of Nigeria the first place of choice to live, to work and to visit.”

After the welcome address by ARG Chairman, Wale Oshun and Adeola’s opening remarks, Dr Doyin Salami of Pan African University, Lagos, in his keynote address set the stage for the critical views that ensued.

Salami lamented that the standard of education in the zone had fallen so low and wondered how the area could define its future without an educated working class and entrepreneurs.

He listed other challenges of the South-West as huge gap between the rich and the poor, rising unemployment rate, decaying infrastructure, industries that cannot process agricultural produce, inadequate capacity to harness abundant resources and over-dependence on federal allocation, among others.

We must close ranks – Fashola

Speaking at the event, Fashola said he was buying into the roadmap, saying: “I throw my weight behind what is stated in the book (Roadmap). It is time for all of us, especially academicians in the region to improve our standard of education. We are ready to work but the citizens also have work to do.



Fashola said it was also time for the zone to refocus energy on agriculture and de-emphasis dependence on crude oil.

Where we missed the mark – Amosun

Governor Amosun of Ogun State spoke in like manner.

He said: “This was not how the South-West Region of this country started. We started on a brighter note. From 1960 when the Cocoa House was built by our elders, the intension of our elders was to make South- West the centre of attraction. The vision of our past leaders was for the South-West Region of the country to compete with other developed societies.

“Previously in the South-West, agriculture was the core source of revenue for the region. The revenue realised from the sale of agricultural produce was used to build various projects in the region, especially Cocoa House. Investment made by our past leaders into the education sector was realised from agriculture. Then, there was no crude oil in the country. They used the money to educate all of us. That is why my administration decided that we must go back to the roots. And, that was why in Ogun State, we decided that what is paramount is educating the people.

”Our past leaders began to foresee the development of the region while they were youths. All what they did were still in place and we need to develop more on it. We should not only say what Awolowo and others did for the development of this region, what we should do now is to roll up our sleeves and follow their path.”

We must not disappoint – Fayemi

On his part, Fayemi said: “We (leaders) should not disappoint the South-West. With the situation in South-West, it is time for us all to call an elders’ forum just the way General Adeyinka Adebayo did in 1966, where we all will design the way forward for the region. It is time for us to rebuild and renew our status in this country.

”The situation of the region has deteriorated in the past years, and we need to hold on to this region not to disintegrate.  We know that the Yoruba race is more than the six states involve today. There is need for all the governors of the six states to roll up their sleeves in order to improve on what the group has done.

”The last meeting we held at Abeokuta, the decision of we, governors, was that we would establish an outfit that would focus on the cooperation of the region. The Roadmap was the resolve of governors of the region. So, it is time for us all to move to the site and commence work immediately.”

ACN leaders, Mimiko trade words over Yoruba agenda

The day did not end without exchange of fire among some of the leaders belonging to different political parties.

The exchanges became very hot when Governor Aregbesola blamed the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) for destroying the core values of the South-West and taking the zone light years back when it ruled the country for eight years.

He, however, got a challenge  from former Speaker of the House of Representatives, Mr. Dimeji Bankole, who told him that power was transient.

The exchanges also continued when Asiwaju Bola Tinubu criticised the presentation of Mimiko representative, saying that the Ondo State Government was invited to buy into the agenda and not to review the Roadmap.

He went on to say that the agenda was for the South-West zone and not the entire Yoruba race.

Tinubu said: “When we asked Olusegun Mimiko (who was represented by the Commissioner for Environment, Mr. Sola Ebiseeni) to come, we called you to buy into the integration without political colouration. We did not invite you to be the reviewer of the book and you diverted the talk on the occasion by criticising the book. If you have problem with the book, wait till the next edition of the book.”

On the question of federalism, the former governor said, “the issue of federalism is a must. Unitary system in Nigeria must be made away with in this country. We cannot pursue this agenda without the legislatures buying into the agenda.” adding, “while we are busy discussing about federalism, at the federal level they are busy talking about the registration of hotels in the country.”

On Ondo, Aregbesola had said: “We have done what we believe it is necessary for us to do in bringing Ondo State into the fray but they desist. Whenever issues affecting Yoruba is debated at the National Assembly, the representative of the Labour Party will decline from voting for the benefit of Yoruba.”

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/03/s-west-govs-others-chart-common-agenda-for-regional-dev/

PhysicsQED:
If those countries are green with envy, then they're not thinking.

A victory for Scotland is definitely not a victory for England and vice versa just because they are in a union.

And why on earth would the USSR want to send more than one country to FIFA? To promote ethnic nationalism and divisiveness in their republic? That would be a terrible idea.

Yes a victory for Scotland would not be a victory for England, but it would be a victory for Britain. Imagine two British parts playing worldcup final. 
Well, let me just leave that for now.

[b]The majority of nations decided to support Nigeria rather than Biafra. [/b]That is entirely different from a situation where Nigeria dissolves legitimately, and after dissolution, some Northern state makes a power play to grab any lands in the south.

Yes, but notice that a country like France supported Biafra (though lightly) and it never changed Biafra's status internationally.
I've seen that "game" more than 20 times played on the world stage whereby one "big country" supports an idea, and another "big country" opposes it, and at the end, one big country almost always has her way. It is just what it is. No two countries have the same clout internationally. So, even if 50 "third world" countries supported Biafra, without the support of one strategic first world country, it would NEVER be a country. I really think that this is very simple enough to understand.

The Fulani were not more than 1,000 of the soldiers in the Biafran-Nigerian war. They were a minority of the soldiers then, and they're a minority of the soldiers now.

You keep referring to Nigeria's military as if it is top notch and indestructible, but I would wager that a solely Northern military would have serious problems conquering elsewhere in Nigeria.

If we're going to take this to "before the white man showed up" then this is a bad example, because the Kanuris thrashed them when they tried expanding into Borno. The Tiv never submitted to their conquest either.

The Fulani are masters of using other people to rule other people, and they oftern enforce their rule on the first people violently and resolutely.
A good analogy is where Peter is using John to rule Paul; and Peter always uses extreme violence to control John, who in turn uses same on Paul.  Smart but very efficient way of ruling bigger tribes. That was what Nzeogwu and his team wanted to stop in January 1966. Almost all non-Igbo Nigerians still don't understand what they tried to do, even till today.
The game is a very high stakes game.

That same July 1966 coup had a few Yorubas in it as well. It was not really anti-Yoruba in any way, actually. The premier of the western region was Ironsi's buddy and the sitting leader chose to side with the old (Ironsi) regime.

"Conquest"? The fact that you see it as a conquest shows a detachment from reality in my opinion. It was aimed mostly at a destruction of the Ironsi regime and all that that entailed. Had that been allowed to occur, there would never even have been a civil war.

I don't know what Ejoor said or didn't say as I was not there, or how much he knew about any killings in the prisons, but I do know that Ejoor was not in a position, militarily, to stop anybody from any other part of the country from doing anything. This was a temporary state of affairs, but one which could not have been avoided.

The point I'm trying to make is that the Fulani basically insulted and walked over all of the south in their counter coup (I hope you know that the counter coup is a fulani coup, if you follow my logic above). They were operating in the west and mid west as if it was their backyard. Nothing happened. Not even a simple caution or warning by Ejoor or Yoruba for instance came. Everybody basically accepted the situation, except the Igbo.

Most of them are not "nomadic". Sedentary culture goes back to before Axum in that part of the world.

The point is that the attempt at colonization of Eritrea totally failed, although there would be much more justification for a Greater Ethiopia than for a Greater Sokoto Caliphate.

They are basically the same people. The analogy is wrong.

How the heck can Fulani maintain control of Ogoni? Do they have the technological capability for that?

The Fulani/Hausa would not just walk away without trying their darndest to gain access to sea. Like I said, once the Igbo are in an Igbo only country, anything can happen to the rest of the southern minorities and Igbo would simply turn a blind eye.

Manny_01:
Are you trying to say the above sentence is correct?? You are fool!! and the worst kind for that matter because you think you are wise. Your Ibo states have only 8.3% of Nigeria's oil, are about 25,000 sqkm and there more than 49 million ethnic Igbo's(Not counting the ones in diaspora). How will you take care of them?? I really can't blame you. You are probably one of those fools who live in Lagos and keep screaming for Biafra.

So, how is it any of your business?
We can work wonders with our 8.3% of Nigeria's oil and the land mass we have.
What are you really afraid of alj-harem ?

Abagworo:
@Manny_01 Let me break down what Dede1wrote in simpler form.

1. Niger Delta means the Delta of the Niger river and its tributaries and basin of which the Orashi,Otamiri,Njaba,Sombreiro and Imo river basins are part of. It is a geographical expression and not ethnic group. Within that delta are found Igbos,Ijaws,Itsekiris,Urhobos and dozens of ethnic groups.

2. A better term might be "Riverine" or "Southern minorities"

3. To the best of my knowledge Biafra is not synonymous with Igbo and that is why most learned Igbos prefer using "Republic of Igboland" in its place. Biafra means the former Eastern region which includes non-Igbo States of Rivers,Bayelsa,Akwa Ibom and Cross River.  Republic of Igboland is strictly for Igbos in the Southeast and Igbos in Rivers and Delta States.

I bet my ten thousand dollars that he would still find a way to reject it. There is something which scares alj-harem Manny_01 to death about Igbo independence.
He has refused to say what that is, but will always post these types of topics.

PhysicsQED:
1. Britain can send four soccer teams to the FIFA world cup because there are multiple officially recognized nations in Britain. There are no four French nations. The French would not be silly enough to give the Basque people even the slightest excuse to develop a sense of nationalist/separatist pride and feeling if there's a possibility that it could swell the ranks of the terrorists.
2. What's the relevance of FIFA here? Nothing. Soccer conventions are not important.

I don't think that is the whole truth. If so, there are many other countries with semi-autonomous nations within their borders that can unleash literally hundreds of "countries" into the world scene. There was a time the USSR was one, and even they could only send ONE team to FIFA.
Let me not be diverted by this topic anyway; but I'm sure that sensible folks would wonder why other countries can't enjoy the same British special representation at FIFA, which basically gives them three EXTRA opportunities at FIFA. I know that most countries are green with envy.

3. [b]Nigeria is NOT an old country. And there are absolutely no "old laid rules" with regard to disintegration of countries except the ones that you're possibly imagining to support some imaginary three countries out of Nigeria that would dissolve almost overnight. [/b]I don't know what so-called "old laid rules" about the disintegration of countries are that you keep referring to, and I strongly disagree with the idea that any such rules actually exist, but just know that the Holy Roman Empire came before all that modern crap in Europe and nobody there, whether from a large or small "tribe' or "nation" would want anything like that back.

The "old rules" I mean is what made it impossible for Biafran currency and stamps to be accepted as a legal tender anywhere in the world, even as the war raged.
Even the name "Biafra" has basically been expunged from the thesaurus. Any time you type it, the computer pretends as if it is a strange new word and underlines it in RED. smh    That is what I'm talking about. So, you cannot have a country (no matter how legitimate or fair your intensions are) if you are not accepted into that international system. Simple and short.

1. "International legitimacy only becomes relevant if the international community don't accept Fulani rule. Where are they today?"

You think anyone in the international (NOT Nigerian) community thinks the Fulanis are ruling (even if some of us claim that they are actually ruling indirectly)? Fulani are a minority in Jonathan's government and the current system is rotational (between north and south) governance.

2[b]. When I referred to intellectual ability, I mean the intelligence to convince far off peoples that they are better off in a union with the Fulanis than by themselves or the intellectual ability to keep a rebel group or rebel groups under constant suppression. The Fulanis have the capability for neither of these things.[/b] In the face of the glare of the international community, Ethiopia, whose inhabitants are superior in almost every conceivable manner intellectually to the Fulanis, could not even suppress and co-opt Eritrea which it could much more reasonably claim as natural constituents of a Greater Ethiopia than the far north could claim any of the southern minority groups as natural constituents of a country with them in it.

The bolded tells me that you have not been studying the Fulani very carefully as I have. They may be in minority in the Jonathan's "government", but the REAL government is the Nigerian military, especially the infantry. They don't need intellectual abilities really. They have been ruling Nigeria without it.

3. The Fulani "aggression in Nigeria" was confronted by the Igbo because it was specifically targeted at the Igbo. Nobody else had anything to really stand up to, nor should they have really mattered to what went on between Igbo and Fulani, Igbo and Kanuri, or Igbo and Shuwa Arab.

You talk about "guts left in Nigeria to fight Fulani rule", which presupposes a serious large scale conflict between Fulanis and non-Igbos which I have seen no evidence of ever even existing in modern Nigeria. But if the disintegration of Nigeria made it necessary for different groups of non-Igbos to fight Fulanis, I wouldn't put my money on the Fulanis. They don't have the resources, the connections, the technology, etc. Brute force by numbers is a fool's approach. The Hutu can't beat the Tutsi on numbers alone, the Hausa couldn't beat the Fulani on sheer numbers alone, and half of Europe couldn't beat either France or Germany on numbers alone at different periods in history.

And if you missed the part about "maintaining" control of these supposed future Fulani colonies, let me reiterate: they would face an insurrection that they have nowhere near the capability to suppress.

The bolded is a pure fallacy because the Fulani has been doing the same thing in all parts of the North even before the white man showed up.
They basically see the whole North as their private estate. They killed a sitting Nigerian leader in Ibadan and killed the premier of western region too, nothing happened from that side. If Ojukwu didn't stand up in the East, they would have continued their conquest unchallenged. Even Ejoor of the Midwest never raised a voice in opposition when Northern soldiers kept killing Igbos in midwest as part of the counter coup. Anyway I digress!
You misunderstood/misrepresented my position on population above. I never said you need only population. I said you need guts; perhaps more than anything else.

I would also not use Ethiopia/Eritrea situation to compare with Fulani and others in Nigeria. Both Eritrea and Ethiopia are almost the same normadic warlike people. I guess the Ethiopians simply decided what the heck we are same people.  The closest analogy to Fulani in Nigeria are the Tutsi in Rwanda, or the Janjweeds in Darfur Sudan. They are small but very militant.
I know the southern African groups somehow. The only group I speculate that can stop the Tutsi are the Shona in Zimbabwe, just like I believe that the only group that has ever challenged the Fulani rule in Nigeria are the Igbos; and if other Nigerians and "the international community" didn't fall for Fulani trickery, Ndigbo would have defeated them. 

If the Ethiopians who are 10 times as competent as the Fulanis could not successfully grab Eritrea in order to reach the sea, the Fulanis have no chance.

4. I feel you're basically just fear-mongering. You would be surprised to find out that upon the disintegration of Nigeria, the Fulanis would have no interest in fighting far off wars that they know that they cannot win or even finalize, and even more surprised to find out that they would probably spend their time and money digging deeper into the Chad basin in search of their own resources.

I am not fear mongering. I'm simply stating the facts of Nigerian history. The rest of your points above are mute.

The Fulani herdsman have attacked the ancestral lands of the majority groups in the south more than they have attacked the ancestral lands of the minority groups in the south. That's just the reality. This is not to say that they have not attacked any minority groups in the south, but most of their attacks so far seem to on the lands of the majority groups. There's no plan or reasoning to it. It's just random devastation.


As for Benue/Plateau, that whole situation will be interesting if Nigeria disintegrates because I want to know whether the Tivs really dislike the Fulanis, or whether they would go along with the North of their own free will. I don't have confidence in the ability of the Fulanis to take and keep Benue against the will of those groups, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Hausas together with Fulanis could take Plateau.

They attacked northern parts of Edo state recently didn't they?  The fact is that southern minority lands lie farther southerly than majority lands, so they have to pass Igboland for instance before they can attack certain parts of  Ijaw, or Ogoni or Ibibio and so on. The Fulani are arguably one of the most tricky tribes you find in Africa. The biggest mistake you make is to assume that they are attacking arbitrarily. That would be the biggest miscalculation.  

DRANOEL:
my friend you can read this: www.momentng.com/en/news/4434/-monarchs-want-fulani-herdsmen-to-vacate-ebonyi.html

My friend if you want to cite a story, try hard enough to cite a relevant story.
The case you cited is where SOLDIERS AND MOBILE POLICEMEN killed villagers who were defending themselves against Fulani herdsmen.
The traditional rulers of the state lamented that paid government security operatives were aiding and abetting Fulani rogue tresspasses on farmlands.
I would guess that if the Nigerian soldiers and mobile policemen were not doing the killing of villagers, the fulanis would not have gone unpunished for their actions.

This is part of why Nigeria needs to disintegrate so that we can have our Biafran soldiers manning the borders. Let us see then how the Fulani can even enter Biafra.

oduasolja:
silly IGBOS.

Outside of the construct of Nigeria , you  have no rights to minority land or any other land .

so keep talking poo.


maybe you will get on your knees and beg the ijaws to give you oil .

if you insist naija break up , then you better be ready to go on your own. cause no guaranttee that ijaw will give u oil or follow you anywhere.

u think if a new union will make the ijaws ask for less resource control. then i laff ohh. keep shouting eastern region. as if yoruba or hausa dey shout western or northern region.

Why are some of you Yorubas so afraid of a divided Nigeria?
What are you really afraid of?
If you have fears, be man enough to ask for help from us, than to behave like demons out of hell.
Would you at least admit that there is enough oil in Igboland to enable us launch our industrial take off?
Currently three Igbo states (Imo, Abia, Igbo part of RIvers) produce oil and one (Anambra) is about to join them this year.
If Anambra were a country, it would have more gas than many oil producing countries. FACT.
Why do you always side step these facts?
Frankly it is getting more and more pathetic to see adults deceiving themselves in the view of the whole world.
Are you really "Odua Soldier" or are you "Odua sheet my pants at possible Igbo secession".    

PhysicsQED:
The "international" will or dimension keeps being mentioned, but what I'm trying to point out is that it's precisely that Western/European naivete and ignorance that led to the amalgamation and it should be ignored, since it is not guided by logic, but by mere convenience. If Nigeria splits, let it split the way its actual inhabitants want it to split. Whatever the West wants is basically nonsense.

Believe me, I really want to agree with you, but I would be unrealistic and naive if I do that. The whole international system we enjoy today, you name it: UN, UN agencies, International Money regimes and protocols, Commerce, Migration, basically EVERYTHING international, has laws and protocols. Even more unfortunately (if you like) some countries have more say than others in that international system. That is why Britain can send FOUR soccer teams to the FIFA would cup, but France cannot.
The international system is OLD, so it forecloses any chance of newer countries ever changing anything substantial. So, in essence, the newer countries have to fall in line with old laid rules. One of such rules is why you may not have as many countries out of Nigeria as you would want.

And what people forget is that a situation where the North colonizes some southern minority group is not just untenable in terms of international legitimacy, it's untenable in terms of the North being able to maintain a hold on that group. They don't have the cultural, intellectual, or technological capability to do so.

Hearing or reading about some supposed Northern conquest of southern minority groups is hilarious to me. The kind of bloodbath that would follow would be regrettable, but it would at least be useful in terms of humbling the Fulanis, who I think are at the root of Northern obnoxiousness.

International legitimacy only becomes relevant if the international community don't accept Fulani rule. Where are they today?
The Fulani won't need the intellectual ability to rule, they only need brute force.
Nigeria's history shows that for almost 100 years, only the Igbo have ever attempted (as a group)  to stand up to the Fulani aggression in Nigeria. For that, we lost more than 2 million. In the absence of Igbo "never say die" attitude (because Igbo must have seceded and minding their own business), I wedger to guess that there may not be enough motivation or guts left in Nigeria to fight Fulani rule.

As for the Middle Belt, some (but not all) of the Middle Belt are basically Northerners and they have a natural inclination toward the people of the far north. Those groups will ally with the far north without anyone in the far north or from outside Nigeria asking them to do so.

You are spot on here.

[b]As for the Fulani herdsmen, so far they have attacked Tiv, Yoruba, and Igbo ancestral lands, and some others. I have no idea what you mean about them "carefully avoiding majority ancestral lands". [/b]These guys don't think or carefully do anything, they just direct their cows to where ever they want to graze and eventually cause havoc. They're idiots, basically. There's no rhyme or reason to it.

I still stand on my ascertion that they are avoiding core ancestral lands of majority groups. As far as I know, there has only been one clear incident in the outskirts of Abia state.
Someone from Abia state told us here that the youths of that area have been doing a silent lynching of Fulani's there. I know there are Fulani cattlemen along Enugu -Akwa expressway. They have never attempted any nonsense. As for the Yoruba side, I would admit that I may not know the whole story, but still the attacks in the west can never be compared to the attacks in Benue/Plateau axis.

Olaolufred:
I ealier said that these assertions are more like day-dreaming or a wish at its simplest form.
If Odua will be wise to lobby Edo and Delta, It is a good step. But don't you also think The Edos and Deltans has right to decide where they went and who they associate with?
I think this is a major mistake Ojukwu made then. He has a good vision, but plans towards execution of the vision was poor and presumptious. That is why the Calabars,Rivers, Edo and Deltans were not carried along. So they supported Nigerian Goverment like the Yoruba did. Before such major moves, homework are supposed to be done. Biafra failed because they were Isolated from other southern Nigeria.
It is hard to now conclude that the man who you never consulted before making your decision will now become a support for no reason.
In life, No man is a self-made anything. We need God and others to become whatsoever we are today.
The hope of Biafra can only be achieved If political and diplomatic groundworks are done. not this self isolation approach.

I tend to admire and welcome your general effort to be civil in your approach to making your points. Kudos.
I particulary agree with the bolded words.

PhysicsQED:
Guerilla warfare and terrorism would start if people tried to impose that kind of stuff on the other groups. With Ijaw nationalism running high, I can't imagine them joining any of the three groups, when they could stay to themselves and become an oil-rich nation of a few million like some middle eastern countries.

Almost as soon as those three countries would be created, they would disintegrate among easily predictable ethnic lines.

The thing people forget is that the "big three" perspective was created by the British.

Trying to reimpose it on the basis of some imaginary international (read: western) will would just be doing the exact same thing the British did when they created the provinces, and then the protectorates, and later lumped the North and south together on the basis of geography and blackness.



By the way, I didn't really mean 100. I was just saying that 3 is basically arbitrary. I can see a group like Ogoni being its own country seeing as there are other countries already existing that are smaller in land mass and population.

I'm talking more about the international dimension to the issue. Who would welcome more than 4 countries out of current Nigeria? I guess that FIFA won't.
Also, if you take a careful look where Boko Haram and Fulani herdsmen are attacking/threatening one way or another, you would see that they carefully avoid majority ancestral lands. The Hausa/Fulani are making a statement with those. Those will likely escalate during disintegration. As far as I'm concerned, they are scoping out their future territories. Up till now, the North claims that the oil in Nigeria's coastal waters belong to the whole Nigeria. I would guess that most would agree (especially if you are not included in it), unless of course you unite with a bigger neighbor to scare off the threat. Igbo would be very happy to stay alone. However, I strongly suspect that some of our neighbors would need us. That is what I mean by when sanity comes in at last.

ekt_bear:
Heh.

The modern Greeks are a long ways away from the greatness of their vigorous ancestors. Dunno what happened to them. . . perhaps too much decadence under Ottoman rule  

Anyway the country has been a relative backwater for a long, long, long time now.

Also, the # of countries in theory would be determined by free will, referendums. However, in practice the world at large might frown upon Nigeria splitting, and would probably not allow more than 3 or 4 new nations

Anyway 4 or 5 is pretty natural, 100 makes no sense at all and wouldn't happen by the will of the people.

Just my thoughts.

About the Greek reference, it is sad that the Greeks allowed themselves to fall backwards despite their rich history. 
It could be that they thrived in the past because there was not enough competition.
I remember one year when all the top soccer countries in Africa failed to qualify for the Nation's cup finals. That year threw up new soccer champions.