₦airaland Forum

oyb:
i don't have the answers, but going by what i see today, i doubt biafra would have been any different from nigeria - the beef would have been between ibo overlords and ijaw/itsekiri - and there would have been looting etal as well.

I seriously doubt that, but you don't have to take my word for it. Just take a simple look at Nigeria from 1960 till now. You would see that the East (Anambra, Imo, Enugu, Rivers, Cross Rivers, Akwa Ibom, Ebonyi and Abia) always had the lowest incidents of political violence when  compared to the rest of Nigeria.

The little trouble we experienced with the Uba brothers in Anambra state was instigated by your brother Olusegun Obasanjo and his party (the PDP) do or die mindset. When Obasanjo left and we had to organize an election in Anambra state, didn't you see how peaceful it was? Was there any assassinations, unlike what obtains in your part of Nigeria? And all these happened even while we are still part of the poisonous Nigerian environment.

Now, imagine if we have no Nigerian influences corrupting our culture, imagine how free we would be to enthrone our values: equality for ALL before the law, one man one vote, no lords (in typical Igbo has no king fashion).  You think Igboman cares about tribe if he has light and security?

Anyway, just look at Nigeria from 1960 to date. Tell me if the East has not been the most peaceful region in Nigeria.

Katsumoto:
How could the West have stayed neutral when Biafran Forces were advancing on its territory to engage Nigerian forces in a full scale battle? Neutrality was gone the minute BAF advanced to ore. I will however, agree with you, on the basis of what has happened in Nigeria since the war, that the West missed the opportunity to pull out of Nigeria at the same time as the Biafrans. But knowing Nigerians, we do not know what other societal diseases might have cropped up in the new nations.

It is also conjectural to think that Biafra never obtained any form of assurances before advancing. Why did Banjo deem it necessary to contact the western leaders? Why did he stop at Ore if BAF was scheming to invade the west?
I honestly wish that the capital at the time was not Lagos, let see what other reasons you would give for fighting on the Nigerian side. The west had all the chance to declare neutrality (even after Ore "mis-incident"-it didn't. That is fact.

^^^

I won't even go 100%, let's say 60%. If the north was sure of 60% Igbo support, the west would not have produced a president in 1998. I don't know how many of your people know this fact.

Katsumoto:
That is purely conjectural and delusional. You seem to arrogate to much importance to the Igbo while belittling other tribes in the process. [/b]What balderdash; the Hausa/Fulani let the Yoruba have a stab at the presidency because they were scared of the Igbo man. [b]Matter of factly, no one is scared of the Igboman.

You don't seem to understand me. Calm down first, take a bottle of cold beer, think a little and then return.

What do you think would have happened if the north refused to allow a westerner to rule? If the Igbo is 100% in support of not handing over to a westerner, and the north is 100% sure of Igbo staying in Nigeria, what do you think the Yoruba could do about it? When you figure this out, please return.

I never said the Igbo is the almighty God. I only said that the north is afraid of a disintegrated Nigeria, and they know that the only one of the major tribes that have ever led such effort is the Igbo.
That is why I, and other savvy easterners are against secession now. Too many people have gained over us because of it. 

@Katsumoto,

Again, considering that we easterners that fought the war are not lesser in all aspects of development than you that didn't (at least our cities are not worse than yours and we are not less developed in education and per capita income), we only lost our beloved ones. But, history is already vindicating us. We celebrate our leaders (all those leaders who led us in war). They are enjoying our love and cherish, while yours have big question marks on their heads.

Katsumoto:
No two situations or stories are the same. Individuals are judged on the quality of the decisions they make with regards to the situations that they encounter. Some argue that the decision taken by the Yoruba leaders to discourage Banjo from marching on Yoruba land was a very good strategic decision.

No, it was NOT!
In the short term, yes it was a good decision. In the long term (considering what Nigeria was turning into -a land where the tail would wag the dog) NO, it was a wrong strategic [/b]decision. Today, we are still saddled with the same thing, and more people are dying daily. That war would have cost far less if the west at least stayed neutral throughout the war. I wouldn't presume to know (as oyb is trying to do) when your leaders should advise you to fight. Yes, there is time for war too. Your leaders squandered an opportunity to stand for the future generations.

People such as yourself have often accused the Yoruba people of being cowards but that is because Yoruba people will try diplomacy before fighting. [b]This may seem like cowardice but it saves people dying needlessly. After June 12 was annulled and Abiola died in prison, the next president of Nigerian was going to be a Yoruba man and it was a Yoruba man. That was achieved through diplomacy and negotiation.

History also teaches us that the Yoruba fought many wars and rarely lost.

Like I've said already, more people ended up dying from terrible leadership over a 43 year period. Don't mistake the emergence of Obasanjo for Yoruba political savvy; if you don't know, it was only possible because the Hausa/Fulani was still afraid of what the Igbo might do if the Yoruba started to seriously threaten secession. The fear of Igboman is the reason behind every political moves since 1970. If the north was 100% sure that the Igbo would stay in Nigeria- they would have still denied your people a chance at presidency, and NOTHING would have happened. Your folks don't seem to think deep on these things. That is part of why savvy Igbo these days strongly reject secession moves because too many people have gained over us in Nigeria because of it.

oyb:
keep changing the subject -

this is not about oyb, or about changing nigeria - this is about the lousy decisions your leaders made.  what do you think 'the burden of command' is about?

You couldn't possibly know either because theory is not practical. Any f'oo'l can give a definition from countless dictionaries online. Since your people never experienced it, your leaders never made decisions at all, and so could never be better than my leaders.

Remember your personal motto: The expert is the person who has made most mistakes.

newmaster:
He said: "Those who know me know that I have always been on the side of peaceful resolution of all conflicts. If you will recall as Head of State, I did all that was possible to secure a peaceful resolution of the Nigeria crises in the 2nd half of 1960. Unfortunately because of circumstances beyond my control, I had to use force to preserve the unity of our nation.

"I hereby declare my support for all peaceful means of resolving conflicts at all levels in the federation. I also support all peaceful means targeted at achieving peace in Jos and else where in the federation."

Can anyone see the contradiction in this speech. He says he has always believed in peaceful resolutions of conflicts; pray, who first used force in 1967
Like others have noted, this guy (and most of other players) can't say two words without mentioning their roles in Biafra. This should be a lesson to all those calling on Ndigbo to forget the past and move on.

It is self evident that the nation cannot move forward until the civil war issue is properly addressed. Sweeping it under the carpet will only breed more chaos and retrogression.

Meanwhile Gowon and his cohorts are under curses from the worst sources: innocent children, women and old people. Those curses won't let up until he expiates!

onye_ngbu:
All you people saying that it will never happen in ibadan should think again.
Ten years ago, nobody would have imagined that it can happen in jos.
It is never goin to be yoruba xtians and muslims against each other. They will simply import their brothers from up north.

I wonder why the guy that issued that threat should not be arrested now. Also, even though i dont know why a muslim should be watching or be concerned by what is done in a xtian movie, i still do not see why dat church will choose 'castigating' islam as their form of evangelisation even though they are aware of the mixed nature of ibadan religiously. There are tons of other effective means to spread their gospel. I am not sure dat xtians in iraq were converted by movies made against islam. Anyone who tried it would not have lived to see his/her converts.

That is why we must start keeping a close eye on all these "Abdullaziz Muhammad Chukwukadibia"s and the "Mustapha Bin Hilal Nwachukwu"s of Igboland.

Orji Kalu gave them plots in Aba or Umuahia to build mosques. They never give C of Os to churches in Kano.

Muslims simply don't practice peace or tolerance, no doubt!

Strong pictures no doubt, but they are necessary. Pictures are powerful, and human beings sometimes don't get the message until they see the message in pictures.

I have this personal view that every Nigerian (or even every human being) should be made to visit a mortuary at least three times a year as part of conditions for employment. If every worker is made to see corpses of famous people at the morgue and see how humans are simply laid down like packs of wood inside morgues, over time, it will bring about profound societal transformation. People would then see that life is nothing, and that there must be a higher reason for being created by God.

Our leaders act like GOD, and we don't even have a clue about how to rein them in. So, we walk a vicious cycle with no hope of a break in sight.
The other day, I was condemning extra judicial killings by the police. Only few nairalanders cared to add their voice. Now, we are seeing pictures of products of our national wickedness, and people are here lamenting.
People should spare me this bulls**t revulsion.

[size=18pt]REPENT FIRST![/size]

A very welcome move!   Though it may not seem like much (same old wine and in new wineskin), I would give Jonathan a break for now. . .
The Kenyans say that "a rat may never be able to chew down a tree, but it can at least leave some serious cuts".
The guy may have a plan afterall.

Beaf:
. . .Until you hear gboa!
Govt and every jack better take this incredibly serious, that bull must never come down south. The id!ot that made the threat should be tried and jailed for a very long time, because it is a criminal offence. Don't forget that Al Qaeda expressed interest in Nigeria in January, better to do something before common sense comes under seige as in Jos.
If you don't like something go to court, not threaten lives and property. WTF!

Exactly my sentiments. . . These things are never planned. 

okunoba:
@Neutralman, as a human being, your statement is sad, cold blooded and void of any human feelings. It`s all about u and your people. Let go of this never ending blame game, the Biafran war ended 40yrs ago and must of the innocent women and children killed in the Jos massacre were not even born then. There is a place and time 4 everything and this is definitely not the right time to bring on your Biafran war, blame game and bias comments. This is a time for compassion and solidarity with the family and friends of all the innocent people that are being killed all over Nigeria.  

Remember next time Igbo people are killed in large numbers, some of us will remind u of  this  statement u made , "what goes around comes around"

By the way what genocide was committed by middle belt people against against millions of Igbo people? Do u have any reliable link as prove of this so called genocide?

Neutralman was even very modest and charitable. I am even assuming he is not Igbo.
Nigerian genocide did not start today and I suspect it will continue until people start to repent. These things happened in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s in these same places. It never stopped.

Any Igbo with any senses at all will never again fall victim to these things. I know many of my people who came back from the north and vowed never to go back there. I also know many who went to the north armed, vowing to fight anyone who makes attempts at their lives or property. Bottomline is that Igbo say "Agha akara aka, adighi eri ngwuro" (a war long foretold can never claim the life of a cripple).
This is the Nigeria we have. We live it as is!

You will NEVER understand how most Igbo feel, so no need preaching to us.

oyb:
yeah . all those ministers would have fallen into aso rock for the last amala - audu ogbeh style  

@oyb

Are you always this hypocritical? Here is your philosophical quote attached to your user profile:

An expert is a person that has made more mistakes than anyone else. . .

But you go about blaming Igbos for the mistakes they made in fighting the war, calling them st'upid and mocking the leadership that foresaw Nigeria 43 years ago. Yet, here you are pretending to care.

If an expert is someone who has made more mistakes than others, why is it different in Biafran case?

Simple truth is that your hate is blinding you to the truth which you adopted in your user profile.

There is no way you could honestly care about what is happening in Nigeria today. You are a HYPOCRITE.

oyb:
^^^^

we are not talking about government here -

we are talking about a war

from the very beginning -

the coup plotters failed to anticipate the reaction of the northerners . for whatever reason, they assumed that the northerners would take the assassination of key figures in their polity stoically.

they assumed that they could secede bloodlessly from nigeria

Dude, why are you people always here to distort history? I see how you and other folks from Yorubaland keep making all these fake claims and mocking the Biafrans for what you could never dream of accomplishing even in a seventh life time. Carry on, but don't be surprised at the vitriol and hate that you attract to yourselves.

they assumed they would get international support.

they probably like so many nairalanders - assumed that northerners were dumb gworo chewing eejits who were better suited to herding cattle than fighting wars

even the much talked about blockade - was the food and supplies that were getting through before  going solely to women and children? are you going to tell me that the army was not also being fed by those supplies ?

there's been a lot about britain vs france. more poor assumptions. the last time there was any real rivalry between france and britain was the hundred years war. france and britain shared colonies, they didn't fight over them

if you want to play semantics ok - biafrans were lousy military strategists. does that sound better?

i doubt if they would have made a better job of running biafra, - its not as if the governors on ground have fantastic track records.

As has been exhaustively discussed on nairaland, it is criminal to block food supplies on the basis that it may be used by your enemies. That was a crime which led to many innocent deaths (women,children and the old), which is why a camel will pass through the eye of a needle before Igbos forgive or forget. Folks like you are also ensuring we never forgive or forget. So, keep up the good work.

As for the international support, well has anything changed in Nigeria? That country will turn into HELL and the north will still continue to enjoy that support. So, go and gnash your teeth quietly because the pain will be long. Today, people are running around calling for mass action or revolution. You will only find the biggest fools from Igboland in those marches, quote me on that.

ndu_chucks:
I do not believe that human ability to plan is absolute, that would be foolish.  If the simultaneous declaration of independence by Western Nigeria was a critical factor as Eziachi stated, then the said leaders made a grave mistake to say the least, for not ensuring that their assumption was correct before making their own declaration. That's all I'm saying, nothing more, nothing less.  I maintain that position

Eziachi asked you a question. Answer it or go away: What makes you think that the Eastern region had no reliable intelligence before declaring Biafra?

How reliable should an intelligence be before being actionable?

ndu_chucks:
As usual, you are doing everything except address the issue I raised. ndo o.

Anyway you are here on your usual mission of derailing threads. Fact remains that Biafra was not defeated. A very reliable source (Achuzia) just said it ON RECORD. Biafra simply abandoned the war. To me that is the ONLY new information. That is really refreshing. You can hang if you can't deal with it.

ndu_chucks:
Onlytruth, it is unfair to call an internet thug and warrior a murderer. What does edoyad have to do with the said incompetence and rascality of those who led the biafran war? olodo

Just letting you know that your people lost too when they balkanized Nigeria. I know your leaders were too stu'pid not to see the future, so, butt off Biafran issues. If your people were not too evil minded and wicked, you would have continued dialogue like Achuzia pointed out. The war was YOUR fault and you are reaping it now.

ndu_chucks:
I'm sorry your rants did not address the point I raised. silly you.

You should thank your stars that I was civil with you. Your type will keep looking for answers even if they are hung like a milestone around your neck. You are too dishonest to demand truth. Meanwhile go to Jos and join your brothers in the mayhem. That is if edoyad doesn't kill your stu'pi'd a's's.

@ziga

Did you even read my post or understand my position on the Nigerian situation?
You want me to take up arms and start fighting to defend a system that was imposed on me 40 years ago by force?
What are you smoking?
Before responding more to you, you must go and read all my posts on nairaland.
You want me to go up against a hopeless system. Dream on!
My business with Nigeria is to play it like everybody else: get my own share of the national cake, eat it and still have it.
If I ever decide to fight, it will never be along that your idiotic line. 

ziga:
I hope you counted me out of this!!!

The problem with Nairaland/Nigerians is too much talk talk from people who no get any action.

Shakara olooje as baba Fela sang!!!

They even try to prevent other people who want to act from doing their thing.

Abeg, enough of too much talk talk and no action!!!

Anybody wey get any other agenda, make e go start him own thread to gather supporters.

Enough is Enough!!!

[size=16pt]WTF![/size]

ndu_chucks:
The bolded text above shows the lack of preparedness and gross incompetence of your leaders that led you on a senseless war, whose success depended on an assumption that Western Nigerians will declare independence of their own.  If this was a critical success factor, your leaders should have had the assurance from Western Nigeria than they will also declare their own independence. This stupidity was a major factor in the loss of lives of millions of people.   Quite sad.

Coming from a hypocrite. . .  .
As Achuzia pointed out, the balkanization of Nigeria was actually what led to the war, so in a way this war was even patriotic. The East fought because it feared present day Nigerian scenario. Eastern leaders feared that a balkanized East was a weakened East which could be easily abused and exploited. Isn't it ironic that the north that cherishes "one north" so much would fight so hard to balkanize the East? Today, there is trouble everywhere. Early Easterners understood that there is strength in numbers (and of course unity of purpose) and tried really hard to fight as one. Some tribes sold out, but others stood firm and fought.  History has since vindicated the just. All those who fought hard to defend Biafra have more peace at home that all those who fought against Biafra -even as we speak!

Beaf:
We loosen everything and take back to the ND.

Left to the rest of Nigerians (at least southerners) Jonathan would be making big changes today but he will run against "northern interests". The Yar adua ministers have told him point blank that he can't do sh**t and must never dream of reshuffling the cabinet. Ok, where is Yar adua?

This is what Igbo people term "Ewu eri ma okuko atu" (the goat will not eat, but will make sure the chicken does not peck either).
For fear of the north losing power, we are missing out on a golden opportunity to change Nigeria, and people are here telling me of some "Nigerian elite". The best Nigeria elite I know (MKO Abiola) died in a military junta's jail with all his money. That is how powerful the military is. That is our history.

@Aisha,

Like I said before, the problem with Nigeria is THE NORTH. I laugh when I see people saying Nigerian elites are the problem. Let me tell you, I will start believing that when the military stops being an instrument in the hands of Northern Nigeria. There is nothing more powerful in this world than weapons of coercion. Anyone with it holds the true power. If you doubt me, why do we have a LAME DUCK President today? The other day, ministers nearly sacked Jonathan! The tail wagging the dog! Mind you most Nigerian elites (at least those in the south) support Jonathan, but your brothers have rejected every attempt to empower him enough to bring about positive change. They are defending "northern interest". I'm often disappointed to see educated southerners who buy into this "Nigerian elite culpable" bulls**t.
Why do people try to complicate simple things in Nigeria? Is it just cowardice or pure stupidity?
Na wao!
So, Aisha, head to the north and tell your people to free Nigeria or they will have no country in which to practice their "born to rule".

@Katsumoto

What you posted is the official version of the story which we have been inundated with from 1970. We have never heard the Biafran side (for obvious reasons now that Achuzia has spoken). There is also the Biafran side of the story which frankly no one had bothered to get (in the true spirit of reconcilliation), afterall, the war is over and all should be well and dandy, right? . I also won't swallow Wikipedia stuff hook line and sinker (you should know that ).
I, and many easterners never knew these new things Achuzia said, though personally I have always suspected a gap of sorts in the information.

What I think Achuzia was saying is that the Biafrans could have continued fighting and all you need to do is think about it for a while. Throughout the war, Biafra was using standard British formations of regular forces which deals with "fronts", "territories" "capitals" "headquaters" and all that sort. A full guerrilla insurgency never makes use of those. Guerrillas simply ignore the "brigades" divisions" and the lot and aim to fight for long.

In fact a full guerrilla force could have moved way into Nigerian territories because they will not be defending territories per se. They are FREE to move. Again they are not always engaging the regular forces. They choose their fights and win most. That is what all guerrilla movements do. That is what MEND is using successfully even in today's Nigeria with better trained and better armed military.

So, don't tell me that Achuzia didn't know these things,which is why he goes on record to say that Biafra was NOT defeated but simply abandoned the war. And I believe him.

Katsumoto:
Achuzia saying that Biafra was not defeated does not change the facts. He was not defeated yet he was incarcerated for 7 years.

Biafra lost the war, that is a known fact. The question is HOW? This interview threw more light on the HOW, and I now know -like I have always suspected- that the war was abandoned (irresponsibly I must add ).

There were many poorly thought out things that happened in the war. I am adding the abandonment to
the list of things done wrong.
Achuzia was in detention because he never really believed that the war should be stopped and probably could have gone back to the bush as Nigeria continued an idiotic pattern of national leadership after the war. Gowon was overthrown by Murtala Muhammed in 1975(just five years after the war); that means that Nigeria was already going down the road of infamy. I could understand why many Biafran fighters like Achuzia would feel like going back to the war, since according to him, they were NOT defeated by the Nigerian military (he says the Nigerians knew this fact, hence his incarceration).

Everything he says makes common sense. A guerrilla warfare could have lasted well into the 80s or even 90s provided we got what we were fighting for. Biafra was not the only rebellion on the African continent. But, only Biafra stopped fighting.
I really think that this information is for the Igbo and other easterners to digest.

amarilo:
Let the Statues Quo remain. We are One Nigeria. Nobody should bring disunity. If you are tired of Nigeria cameroon is not far.
We fought for the cabal 40 yrs ago, many lost their brothers, sisters, sons and daughters for this cabal to lord over us. Why are we fighting again to weaken the cabal. Its total hypocricy.
Can you name the cabal you are talking of and I will let you know 100s of reason why your protest will be futile

Remember "when they use your head to break coconut you will not be part os the fest feast."

I love these proverbs! That is what makes us Africans!

Aisha, e be like say you are on your own with that. Nigeria has a vivid history and it is still unfolding. Your brothers need to repent. The easiest way to win in your campaign is to head home to Katsina, Kano and Sokoto, and tell them that Nigeria is NOT theirs if they want it to continue as one. A word is enough for the wise.

jumobi1:
I think Biafra lost because the people were suffering and so the leaders decided to make peace. Why do you think it was abandoned? I think Ojukwu didn't plan well enough to win. He should have thought about the west helping Nigeria. He should have thought about strength in numbers. It's not all about heart and desire.
Eritrea won their fight against Ethiopia and the west though.
The war does proves the Nigeria needs the east because if my wife wants to leave the house for good, why would I fight to keep her unless she is of more value to me than I am to her.

Your point is well taken. No doubt the leadership of Biafra didn't plan well, but I'm really more interested in HOW the war ended, because a lot of misinformation is going on.
You rightly pointed out Eritrea's case -just my point! You can still get what you fought for, and that is why I'm interested in HOW the war ended. I know for a fact that there were many in Biafra who wanted to continue the war (as Achuzia admitted to in this interview). Many wanted a pure guerrilla movement to fight the war for ever, and I think they might have been right considering what Nigeria turned out to be after Biafran surrender. So, I think some people abandoned that war carelessly.

jumobi1:
You are pretty DAFT!
Why talk like that about such a touchy issue?

Ol'boy please ignore the akata. He is known here for his infantile imbecility. Some Igbo dude impregnated his mum and ran away. Now he thinks through his 'as's'hole. The key is to completely ignore him.

Back to topic. When i was in school, we used to wonder how the war ended and how it was that even Sierra Leonian rebels under "General Mosquito" pinned down the Nigerian army in freetown and basically kept moving anywhere they chose. I later started suspecting that some people simply abandoned the war in Biafra. It never made sense, as Achuzia said. How can you even defeat a rebel army in Africa? Even MEND is outperforming Nigerian army in the creeks, not to talk of a larger and more motivated force. So now, I have also come to understand why Achuzia was kept in detention for 7 years after the war. He knew too much about what happened!

^^^
Just commenting on key points. . . Sorry if I appear to be duplicating. . .

It was this same people that advised Gowon that the best way to bring the Eastern Region to its knee was to balkanise it. But before he did that, information was also leaking to the Eastern Region Government. And the reaction of the East was no, we are one. If you say you do not want us, we will go on our own by any name. If you look at the situation critically, you will see that the Eastern Region was pushed out. They were being pushed out for purposes of total elimination. That was the beginning of the genocide. Otherwise, there wouldn’t have been the need to cut them off from the sea, air and land or get them landlocked. It was for this purpose that Bakasi was given out to Cameroun so that they will not give space for Biafra to retreat into Cameroun.

And we have been on our knees ever since!