₦airaland Forum

Lordsagna:
Baba like u no watch the match.... using matip last night would have been a disaster, we could have conceded 2-3 goals..... but u choose to ignore the obvious and clear reason we lost which was our attack.... combination of Salah , mane is not good enough for us.. it was obvious from the first half origi would have done better than Jota removing Salah would have made our forward shoot more ball easily.... Salah selfishness with his stupid R2 cost us the match.... and why on Earth is Keitha still doing in Liverpool?

We lost due to
1) Inability of the midfielders to shoot outside shots.... imagine debruyne in that match...no Liverpool midfielders has accurate outside shots.
2) Arnold should be more vigilant his wing is Liverpool weakness everyone knows that...I mean that left back wing is most vulnerable
3) inefficient attack having multiple on target without converting one.... guy we needs a Sharp striker olohun.....jota na flop.... Salah is too selfish.

In summary we need
LB, Standing 9, RF(Salah's position), creativity midfielders.
It's well with us next season

For Salah's position,I recommend Raphinha from Leeds!
Then I think you meant RB not LB
For RB I recommend the young guy that plays that position at Nottingham Forrest....he is very good and might be a solution to our RB position....despite TAA defensive weakness,I still believe his real position is in the midfield!
We also need a CM

Minemrys:
Oga, you didn't watch the game. I saw it. Konate was our best defender all through. He and van Dijk were marking other players specifically Benzema when Trent left Vinicius unmarked. Watch the full game.
Konate helped Trent a lot in the game. To me, Trent doesn't have a defender's mind. He has shown time without number that he is playing out of position as RB.
Judging how our forwards were kept quiet is you failing to acknowledge that both our forwards aside Mane aren't in form since March. And Madrid only needed to keep Diaz quiet knowing Salah will fire blanks and Mane won't get the service needed.

Exactly... U really watched the match without sentiments!

Minemrys:
You didn't watch the game. Konate had a great game. The goal was from Trent angle. Left Vinicius unmarked.

Una don make am get personal beef for konate sotay him nor know say nah even TAA way nor suppose allow that space for vini to score!

Silentgroper:
Fvck that.. We need a new cb too.. If klopp knows he wont play matip, he should better get us a better and experienced cb.. He should have konate playing cup games..

That's ur entitled opinion but try not to take this personal because you don't get paid for supporting LFC so mellow down on the F-word!
FYI the guy you are having BP over just received his weekly alert & klopp ain't signing a CB next season!
Una go just dey carry club for head as if them dey pay una!

chypotenti:
na only you know that one!!!! Madrid na champions of Europe abeg!!!! They always know how to win...

Before you intrude on a convo,first check the beginning.....and no one is arguing about Madrid clinching their 14th UCL trophy!
They made use of their only chance and scored....Simple!

VlamesIffect:
You can't call the attacking equally matched.... Madrid had that Balance in defence, mid and strike. Liverpool played attack but didn't have the extra magic to convert them to goals.

how did LFC get the 9 chances on target without the contribution of the defence and midfield?
If Madrid had balance in both defence and midfield, how did LFC get up to 9 chances which was saved by their keeper?
If one or two of those chances had managed to hit the net,you won't be talking about a 'balanced' madrid defence or midfield!
Like I said before,the difference was the goal which was the only chance Madrid had!

Lordsagna:
Mane +Dias played rubbish... Salah is too selfish..No problem with the defense system
Mane+ keita + need to leave ASAP..we don't need stupid players, Madrid didn't play shit
Next season we move.

Exactly!
The attack cost us today and the madrid keeper should be given a huge credit for shutting out the likes of Mane and salah!
We lost because we didn't take our chances and when you dont,a team like Madrid only needs one chance to punish you!
For me,we did well this season and we should be proud of what they have done!
We go again next season!

Silentgroper:
Explain to me y konate was on d pitch

Sorry to be rhetorical but did Konate not play all the UCL games leading to the finals?
Did konate not play in the two cup finals that we won on penalties?
Was konate the one responsible for the profligacy of our front men?
Its easy to look for a scapegoat when the team loses but trust me,this one is on the front men....they lacked the precision to be deadly in front of goal and it ultimately cost us!
No matter who plays in that defence,if we did not take our chances,the opponents will grow in confidence and strike....thats exactly what Madrid did today!
Funny enough,the guy that would have delivered or bailed us would have been Origi but he got injured before our last game against wolves in the EPL!
A loss is a bitter pill to swallow but it is what it is!
#YNWA

Our priority should be to get a striker and possibly a CM
Keita is just not good enough!

Silentgroper:
We bottled another one.. Like wth is konate doing on dat pitch. This one is on klopp.. Yet some of claims he doesnt make bad decisions...
mtcheew..

How is that on klopp?
who did you want klopp to bring in that he did not do?
What more do you want from him?
Should he come to the pitch to assist mane and salah to score?
We had 9 shots on target and we did not take our chances but Madrid did and they are the winners!
Though its painful to take but we have to accept it and move forward not this constant blame games! Haba!

VlamesIffect:
Liverpool try sha. Madrid had a more balanced mid, attack & defense....na experience Madrid use take hold the game today

They were equally matched!
LFC had 9 shots on target against Madrid only shot and decisive goal!
Madrid simply took their one and only chance!
Thats the difference!

Congrats to Real Madrid on their 14th UCL triumph!
They took their only chance and won!
LFC players did very well but their best wasn't good enough....We go again next season!
#LFC #YNWA

Minemrys:
Bros na that one be one off. You don't concede that kind of goals in a derby and call it a one off. It means that team is good. It's like real Madrid loosing 6-0 in Madrid derby.

Hold on....let's get to the beginning where this dragging started....U said VVD let 7 goals pass him which is in other words,was a masked shading to mock him & I showed you other clubs as big as LFC,like manutd,during their best seasons that lost by similar margin to smaller or struggling sides with very powerful defenders like Vidic & rio using Blackburn's 4-1 triumph as an instance!
U now said its a one off!
Is that not the same thing about the 7-2 loss to Aston villa?
Isn't that a one off?
Please which other match did LFC concede that much against non rivals or average teams like aston villa while VVD was playing?

Minemrys:
That one is quite different. We were actually good on the day and better than United. Besides when we have always beaten United at old Trafford, it usually goes by 3 goals, 4 goals. It's not like it's a one off.
Vvd letting 7 past him was because the boys lost focus against an opponent that wasn't a derby. It's like saying we concede 7 against Everton or United. We can't cause we will be very focused.
Winning a derby is by merit.

So what happened when a super defence which consisted of Rio ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic lost 4-1 to blackburn in 2007?
Was that also derby match?
Bayern Munich lost 5-0 to Borussia Monchengladbach.....was that a derby game?

Minemrys:
Nope. I disagree. You make it sound like we don't keep clean sheets without VVD.
Listen, VVD is good at defense but it's also a team effort. I have seen where Vvd makes a mistake and Robbo covers for him.
Vvd has an input but it's all on the team not just him. That's the notion I want to correct.

U are entitled to your opinion!
VVD is not just great but a colossal in defence!
He brought calmness and leadership qualities to that defence that no one has ever done since the time of Sami Hyypia!
True its a team game but without VVD we are no where!
Let me ask...if you were a manager playing Real madrid or Mancity,would you pair Matip and konate knowing there is a VVD on the bench?
Input? hilarious!
Please state just 5 EPL games we played this season without VVD and did not concede!

Minemrys:
If you talk about Benfica then what about Inter Milan or Villarreal?
It's cause the boys lacked concentration. Like against West Ham, Brentford Brighton. Van Dijk started those games.

Those were just few games...the question is did such results happen consistently?
However games where he didn't feature, we suffered defensively!
Check your stats!

Good news LFC fans!
Thiago will likely play tomorrow!

Minemrys:
Getting trashed by arch rivals Lfc at old Trafford isn't to be considered a one off. We actually challenged for the league in those years.
Yes, the Villa game was a one off but my point is it happened not because of one person but cause the team was off.
It was until Klopp's 2nd full season that we started having a team.

You were alluding to VVD letting 7 goals get past him and i only showed U using that Manutd as an instance where they conceded heavily despite having a watertight defence then!

Minemrys:
You aren't getting the argument.
The argument was of all the CBs then,Matip was the best. He was actually better than the average guys.
In games without VVD, he has actually had to stand up. That's assuming everyone in the team do their part.

This is not true!
Games without VVD have been tough and the goals started leaking!
Case in study...LFC vs Benfica!
At this stage,we cant do without him..Its as simple as that!

alekside:
Sarcasm my friend, sarcasm

Unfortunately your half hearted sarcasm is an indirect plus about VVD!
VVD is the one and only defender!
He leads the defence calmly and the rest follow including your dearly beloved 'world best defender' Matip!
Its as simple as that!

Minemrys:
This is the mistake you guys have. He isn't really the only one, cause if you follow it well, when VVD came, the error prone guys started taking a step back, guys like Moreno, we got Robertson playing more and Trent getting into the team.
Am not discrediting VVD but putting it on the team also.
After all, VVD was in the game we played where 7 goals went past him.

That was an off game that could have happened to any team!
Even during the glory days of manutd,they got trashed by a LFC at old trafford and yet won the league!

alekside:
Only VVD was responsible for the reduction in goal conceeded. Klopp tweaking his game to a more conservative approach, Allison's outstanding performances, selling dross like Moreno, Mignolet, Lovren etc played no part

Simple!
Sarcasm or not!

Minemrys:
Openmine. Matip was actually really good and our best before VVD. The problem is he rarely frequently played, and had people who were too error prone alongside him. Don't forget the GKs we had, and oh,the Midfield. We also had Moreno in defense.
Gomez and Matip first partnered as CBs last season. They've never ever been paired prior to then.
For Matip to still remain even after Klavan, Lovren Sakho, you need to know he did something right. Don't forget the others aren't injury prone.
Even Van Dijk admits Matip is better than him in some areas. What Matip lacks is that calmness and commanding nature and game reading. But if it's to carry the ball, tackle and all, he is good. Real good, and better than the others we had.
The only debate is who between him and Gomez is better.
I would say, it has both sides to look at. In terms of defending, Gomez on his day is ruthless, you can't bully him, he bullies you. But when it comes to giving that attacking pass or breaking into Midfield, Matip has it.
Lovren is good but too error prone and too hasty. The guy too dey do gra gra. But I like him in terms nodding ball into the net and bullying attackers.

I do not deny what you are saying!
However, the narrative of Matip being the 'best defender' felt sightly odd to me and made it look as though VVD was not actually needed!
They were all average until VVD showed up and administered is leadership qualities and calmness which none of them including Matip had!
This brought the best out of Matip and Gomez and also lovren because VVD had once pair with him!

alekside:
So, LFC conceeding too much goals wasn't because of Klopp's non-conservative approach in his earlier days, Lovren being a shitty defender, and Mignolet/Karius being shitty keepers? According to you, it was all down to Matip's ineptitude.

You are very funny. . How many defenders in the world gets an 8 or 8.5 rating after a season?



Below is a list of LFC Centre backs before VVD:
Joel Matip
Mamadou Sakho
Dejan Lovren
Ragnar Klavan
Joe Gomez

Please tell me who was better than Matip amongst the listed.

None until VVD showed up and made them better!
Simple!

alekside:
Ask him to bring the stats to prove Matip was not our best defender pre-VVD.

Yeah best defender and we could not stop the goals until VVD showed up!
Waoh...amazing!

Silentgroper:
You're right.. 4rm what i recall, lovren was d problem of our backline then not matip.. Atleast if matip wasnt so good, klopp wouldnt prefer his pairing with vvd over gomez's. What now has me shocked abt his whole write up was when he said d purchase of konate made matip stepped up.

Openmine, do u knw using stats to judge a player has its flaws esp wen d player constantly goes out on injury..

There is no difference between stats and watching a game!
Infact watching a game can make one bypass the performance of some players that are key to the overall success of the team...for instance,not everyone sees what the likes of Fabinho or Jorginho does on the pitch but only stats will actually let u in on their performance!
Don't get me wrong, I also watch games asides checking the stats!
See I acknowledge the fact the performance of Matip and we all can relate with his injury history,however we must put things into context...Before VVD,we were poor in defence and this was not only the fault of lovren because when Matip was partnered with Gomez,the leak did not stop!

Silentgroper:
Openmine..

wasnt lovren exit d reason we got vvd... U said matip stepped up only when we go konate.. No that's very wrong.. Being paired with vvd might have bring out his best but it's surely nt wen konate was gotten.. If u say gomez- vvd pair was better, y did klopp kept opting for matip- vvd pair

The context of Matip stepping up was that he became more prominent this season in defence and attack esp and also had more time to rest as konate was also sharing in the partnership of VVD...hence he never played all the matches which would have been bad considering his injury history!

VVD didn't just make the other defenders better,he made them step up to the plate....infact,according to a pundit,VVD made the job of his partner to be less stressful due to his leadership,calmness and the very fact that he anticipates danger before it happens with his timely tackles!

During the 2019/2020 season which was our season when we clinched the EPL,VVD/Gomez were so phenomenal in defence to a point where we hardly conceded goals...All of a sudden,Matip and lovren were looking like 3rd and 4th choice defenders!
The VVD/Matip partnership returned after Gomez had a lengthy injury!

Lovren did not leave after the emergence of VVD!
VVD came during the middle of 2017/2018 season and lovren left after the 2019/2020!

alekside:
LOL... Klopp didn't buy VVD because Matip wasn't good enough. It was obvious to everyone that Lovren was the Calamity in the defence that needed to be changed.

Ohh lord....so lovren was the only defender that partnered Matip abi?
Did Matip not partner Gomez? What was the outcome? More goals conceded!
Even when VVD partnered lovren,he turned to a superstar defender thanks to VVD!

You keep talking about Matip's stats. I have been expecting that you'd share his stat in 16/17 and 17/18 to clear my doubt. Since you said he was poor for two straight seasons before VVD's arrival, let's see the stats that proves this.

Matip was so poor in his first season that he was rated high by Whoscored and Sofascore.

Smh
I even thought I was going to see an 8 or even an 8.5 at least to justify your 'best defender' narrative of Matip!

Now go and check the stats of VVD and while checking also compare with Matip's performance after VVD arrived!

Oga let's get one thing clear....l admire the performance of Matip so far as an LFC fan and I have said it in several occasions but confidently saying Matip was the best defender before VVD showed up is absurd and explicitly confusing!

If I buy a defender and he is already walking into the first team and giving instructions,then it means there was virtually no defence initially!

Why hire an expert to an accounting firm when the head accountant who is described as being the best and yet can't tell why the company keeps losing money!

VVD made all the defenders better joor!
Give honour to whom its due!

alekside:
This is the problem. You judge with stat not by actually watching a player's performance. I can remember vividly that Matip was really good in the early years.

For the umpteenth time,you are fully entitled to your own opinion but just so you know,stats are used as basis to confirm what you are actually watching!
I don't need to watch a benzema play before I know that he is the best striker in LA liga,the stats says it all!
Stats just like watching depicts the overall performance of a player in a role or responsibility given to him!
If he was good or close,why did we need a VVD?
You just called out two former LFC players whose opinions will always be slightly sentimental!
The point which you are erroneously failing to admit is that there was no good defensive performance from any defender until VVD showed up!
He makes his defence partner to step up or get better...this is exactly what happened with Matip and Gomez!
Matip is without doubt a now fully experienced and dependable defender @ LFC but your misplaced narrative that he was a very good defender before the emergence of VVD is downright inaccurate and frankly preposterous!

Silentgroper:
Mane might be leaving... I think it wouldnt hurt us

He said his future plans will be made known after the UCL match!
Honestly,he will be greatly missed!

alekside:
The bolded is false. Matip was our best defender before VVD came in. The only issue he had was his reoccurring injuries.

U are entitled to your opinion!
However,I only look at stats to draw my conclusion!
There is no rationale behind naming someone the best defender when LFC was chopping and leaking goals from his side and from his defensive partners!
LFC have conceded a bag full of goals when he was paired either Lovren or Gomez!
The Defence was so poor that Matip was criticized by pundits as a wasted purchase by klopp!
VVD emergence brought not just coherence but leadership at the back which made klopp prefer VVD/Matip or VVD/Gomez...Thats when the best of Matip emerged though slightly!
Infact during the glorious season when LFC cliched the EPL,VVD/Gomez partnership was preferred to VVD/Matip partly due to not stepping up to the plate and regrettably due to his constant injuries.....infact he played more cup games!
If Matip was good as you are alluding to,there would have been no need for a VVD!
It was this past season that he stepped up and got better defensively and offensively(esp when konate was bought) than any other season!
Matip is a good defender no doubt and i admire him esp when he goes one of those forays that most times result into a goal..however,lets set the records straight,Matip or the other defenders then were no where close to GOOD until VVD showed up!

Excuse me, did you just throw a title at me, Mr. Musgrave?
I don't care if your daddy plays golf with the President. This is Intelligence. So far, I haven't seen any.