₦airaland Forum

In church

Igbo Catholic children
Diocese of Sacramento California

new yam at Iwaji ceremony

a traditional food

looks like egusi soup

Igbo marriage ceremony

Association of Igbo women in Denmark

Igbo women

what does "Igbo kwenu" mean? Why are none Igbo culturally oriented and speaking peoples identify the Igbo themselves with that phrasing “Igbo kwenu”? When the Igbo say in a gathering “Igbo kwenu,” what exactly are they referring to or echoing out? Whose voice or voices are embodied in the philosophy and culture of “Igbo kwenu”? Of what origin has the concept of “Igbo kwenu”? Are there other societies known to the Igbo that share the same collective wish to agree or disagree in a political or communal discourse of that nature? Why are the Igbo people of Southeastern Nigeria sensitized with such an unshared cultural identity and representation?



To explain the cultural logic and symbolism of “Igbo kwenu” may not be as simple as it may look. I will therefore attempt and situate the concept of “Igbo kwenu” in the context of cultural identity, belongingness, solidarity and contribution to one’s society.



The Phrase “Igbo Kwenu”

A common linguistic analysis may help us to understand the phrase “Igbo kwenu.” Here we have two words: ‘Igbo’ and ‘kwenu.’ The term “Igbo” refers to Igbo people – men and women of all ages of tradition and modernism. On its own, “kwenu” as a word refers to agreement, endorsement, solidarity, unity, bondedness, strength, collective will.


The conception of the idea to stay together as a community and act as one is very important for the Igbo. The Igbo see the fact that to stay united in a direction or course of action will bring a shared honour to them. Therefore, they value strongly to come together. Coming together is deterministic and central to all else. In gathering of all sorts, namely marriage, rituals, celebrations, age grade meetings, war, wrestling, hunting, and village political affairs, the Igbo assert their emotions and psychology together through calls to order of solidarity such as invoking the “Igbo kwenu.” Today, the Nigerian political class come up with all sorts of slogans not far from the culturally enhanced idiom of “Igbo kwenu.” When someone is to speak to an issue, he will call to order the gathered Igbo to listen to him through the application or summon of “Igbo kwenu.”



Traditionally, when a person among the gathered group intends to speak and has masterly and skilfully summoned attention with “Igbo kwenu,” he is automatically granted audience. "Igbo kwenu" is a supreme call to attention and order to speak in a culturally appropriate way. Once the “igbo kwenu” is announced and responded to, all ears will listen, at least momentarily to the person who surely will stand out and speak to them. His idea, point of information and facts, contribution and oratory skill will determine how much attention he will command. The Igbo can be noisy in public meeting sessions. Being noisy while discussing public affairs is not easily understood by the non-Igbo. Speaking out loud and clear is a well cherished Igbo cultural feature. It is not merely seen or viewed as shouting or yelling, rather as a form of strength of communication and emphasis.



Cultural Origin of Igbo Kwenu

To trace the cultural origin of “Igbo kwenu” is a search for meaning and point of departure. It can be clearly said it is history of a culture in an unwritten form whose parts make up the whole. Like the history of the origin of the Igbo people of Nigeria, Igbo culture is attached to the shared meaning of Igbo life historically. There is no beginning and there is also no end in the dynamic relationship between ideology and realism. An inquiry into knowing and connecting the dots of the origin of the idiomatic notion of[b] “Igbo kwenu” is hard to excavate and pin point to a specific historic and linguistic moment[/b]. Legends and creation myths told nothing to our common sense understanding about the first application of the phrase “Igbo kwenu.” Yet important information gathered suggest that Igbo language, philosophy and manner of communication evolved as a collective praxis in charting their ways and transmission of life curiosities.



Some related stories asserted that the Igbo as a whole like to think and speak to and of things in a dynamic sense. There is an indication also of the fact that the Igbo reinvent any of their agreed upon matter of importance. As such, the “Igbo kwenu” concept captures their before, now and ahead of their time and events. Put practically, “Igbo kwenu” cuts short the form of saying - Igbo kwere na ihe ha kwuru (The Igbo believe in what they have agreed upon to think, say, and do). Classically, there is no record of history exclusive to the origin of the idiomatic connotation of “Igbo kwenu” this writer came across in the search for knowing. Made to believe is that the phrase “Igbo kwenu” is aligned to Igbo language process on solidarity register and shared meaning of holding to what is agreed upon. We can deduce that “Igbo kwenu” is a psychic of a collective voice, the oratory skill and community action. Its origin and continuity have endured so much so that the significance of “Igbo kwenu” has become a norm in gathering of the Igbo for Igbo affairs.


Igbo kwenu and Symbolism

A central way to explain the symbolism of “Igbo kwenu” is to refer to a local proverb which says: Ukwu diri otu, a kuo ulo gbam-gbam, ma ukwu adighi otu, a kuo ulo akirika (if we are united, we roof the house with a corrugated iron zinc; but, if we are not united, the house will be roofed with raffia palm). The proverb simplifies the obvious fact that unity is critical to any form of collective discourse, agreement, development action, connection and result. As when there is unity of purpose, the result of any action is comparable to roofing a house in a solid iron sheet. On the contrary, discourses that lack unity of minds and actions will result in disorder and of achieving less such that roofing a house is comparable to using vulnerable materials of less durability. The powerful proverb unveils the notion of ikwere or ekweghi (agree or disagree; come out and belong versus stay out and do not come out to be part of the community).http://www.kwenu.com/publications/iroegbu/2007/concept_kwenu.htm

The Ofili of a man is a useless noisemaker.
Does he know the origin of Ohaneze ndi Igbo
Can anyone tell the clown that the founding fathers of Ohaneze were Anioma e.g Osadebe.
These brainless individual claim to be decendants of a certain Bini man named Eze Chima
I need an edo person on this thread to tell me Eze Chima is a Bini name
Prominent Anioma people like the Okonjos, Odogwu's,Onwujekwu's,Utomi's,Nzeogwu's proudly call themselves Igbos.
These so called "Bini" noisemakers are a negligible minority.

The president of the other Igbo association Aka Ikenga also happens to be an anioma deltan Dr Ebigwei
How refreshing.

ezii girl ndo o
I pray God gives you something better.
Keep hope alive

I pray you also find a handsome,Godly and rich husband

Igbo 101: Facts Little Told

By

Ogaranya Uju Nkwocha Afulezi, Ph.D., Duru Akwukwo III Ndi Umuohiagu

uafulezi@hotmail.com

Question: Is Southeast and Igboland the same thing?

Answer: Not at all. Southeast is only about 3/5th of Igboland. Igboland covers the whole of Southeast, parts of Rivers, Delta, Benue, and Akwa Ibom states.

Question: Why were we taught in school that Igbo people are easterners?

Answer: It is both an unfortunate parroting by teachers and careless adoption by Igbo educated class. Igbo people come from Southern Nigeria and not Eastern Nigeria. It may be correct to say that the Igbo are found predominantly in eastern Nigeria. However, by saying that the Igbo are easterners, the implication is that the Igbo in western Nigeria, numbering about 2.5 million (Agbor, Ogwashi Ukwu, Ibuzo, Okpanam, Asaba, Orimili, Ndokwa, Anioma, etc) are not Igbos. The best known Igbo anthropologist Professor Mike Onwuejeogwu is from the western part of Nigeria, Chukwuma Nzeogwu, Dennis Osadebe, Okonkwo Adibe (the famous musician), Sony Odogwu, etc. are all from the western part of Nigeria. They are no less Igbo than those who live in the  eastern part of Nigeria. The correct answer to your question is "the Igbo come from Southern Nigeria."

Question: Why do some Igbo refer to themselves as "core Igbo?"

Answer: That is clearly arrant nonsense. Nobody is core and others peripheral. All Igbo are the same. It is both arrogant, thoughtless and insensitive for anybody to regard others as marginal.

Question: Is Igboland landlocked?

Answer: Not at all. Igboland stretches from Igwe Ocha (Port Harcourt) to Agbor. The Atlantic ocean washes the shores of Igboland. Africa's second largest river - River Niger, traverses Igboland with one part of Igboland in the east and another part in the west of Nigeria. Uguta Lake has the potential of accommodating large ships and could be made  a navigable port. If Igboland is landlocked, then all Nigeria is landlocked.

Question: Is there oil in Igboland?

Answer: Yes, indeed. There is a lot of oil in Imo State, Abia, Ebonyi, Rivers State and Delta States Igbo areas, and now in Anambra. Besides, Igboland has many other natural resources, including coal, limestone, etc.

Question: Are the Igbo a nation or a tribe?

Answer: The Igbo are a nation, and a very large one. There are many tribes in Igbo nation, just like you have many tribes within Israel.

Question: Why do some Ikwerre people say they are not Igbo?

Answer: First, it is not up to them to say what they are and what they are not. When God created them, He did not ask them who they wanted to be. He just created them Igbo. The only way you'll know who belongs to what ethnic group in Nigeria is the name and what language the name comes from. Anybody whose name is Amadi or Onyeri, or Eke, or Odili, Wanodi (Nwanodi) does not need to tell you who he is. He is Igbo, his politics notwithstanding.

Question: But they claim that their language is Ikwerre, not Igbo.

Answer: That is politics. Ikwerre is a dialect of Igbo language. Just like an Ngwa man speaks Ngwa Igbo, Arochukwu speaks Arochukwu Igbo, etc.

Question: Some people say that Igbo language is not complete, is it true?

Answer: No language is complete. All languages borrow from each other. Igbo language is very rich. It has inexhaustible and rich linguistic features like idioms, proverbs, aphorisms, sayings, anecdotes, riddles, folklores, etc. Igbo language is one of the major languages of the world, being spoken by millions of people.

Question: How many are the Igbo?

Answer: The Igbo are very numerous. There is educated guess that if Nigeria's census is properly enumerated, the Igbo could easily be the largest ethnic group in the country. They may number up to 40 million. Everything right now, is speculation. Nobody knows the true stratification or ethnic populations in Nigeria. The Igbo are the only ethnic group found in large numbers everywhere in Nigeria, and foreign countries more than any other ethnic group in Africa.

Question: Do the Igbo have a culture of their own?

Answer: Yes, indeed. Igbo culture is perhaps, one of the richest and all-encompassing cultures in this world.  Igbo culture always observes the temporal and the spiritual aspects of cosmology. The study of Igbo culture reveals that it is extremely deep and original.

Question: Why do the Igbo wear Yoruba Agbada and Hausa babban riga but the Yoruba and the Hausa do not ever wear Igbo national dress?

Answer: Unfortunately this is the case. The Igbo have very attractive and resplendent national dresses. And they come in assortments that are extremely dignifying. The Igbo take up foreign cultures more readily than other Nigerians, and they seem not to care that nobody reciprocates their carefree attitude to life. Most ethnics promote their cultures and show off what makes them unique. Actually, it is still the same so-called educated Igbo class who behave in such disgraceful and the devil-may-care attitude.

Question: Why do the Igbo call themselves Biafrans?

Answer: Great question. Some people have the idea that Biafra originates from the Bight of Biafra. But that is wrong. There was the Kingdom of Biafra that ruled most of the ancient world about 50,000 years ago. Unfortunately, nobody talks about it, for whatever reason, I do not know. But, it is in the ancient maps of the world. If you wish I'll make a copy and send to you.

Question: Were the Igbo also taken into slavery during the slave trade?

Answer: Yes. The Igbo slaves themselves gave account of their travails in slavery. Olauda Ekwuano an Igbo ex-slave who bought his freedom in Britain was the first slave to write about his experience in slavery. His book has become a classic. You ought to find it and read it. Also, other Igbos who were brought to America revolted and some walked back on water and were said to have returned to Africa. Several books have been written about them. One of such books is "Ibo Landing." It is available in bookstores like Barnes & Noble. In Haiti, the Igbo settled there and refused to be colonized by anybody. There are many places where the Igbo left their mark or their signature.

Question: How did the Igbo know days and years?

Answer: The Igbo invented an accurate, if not the most accurate calendar called "Iguafo Igbo (Igbo Calendar)." In Igbo calendar, there are four market days - Eke, Afor, Nkwo, Orie that make one week. Four days make one week, seven weeks make one month, and thirteen months make one year. There are 28 days for each month, with the last month having 29 days. Each month starts the same day as the previous. Igbo calendar forms the perfect astronomical alignment with the cosmos, and regulates the seasons, agriculture, navigation, astrology, geography, mathematics, travel, etc.

Question: Did the Igbo have their own alphabets?

Answer: Yes, indeed. It is called "Nsibidi."

Question: How about mathematics; did the Igbo know mathematics?

Answer: Yes, indeed. There are such inventions as "Okwe" and "Mkpisi" which the Igbo used to resolve figures.

Question: Did the Igbo know anything about banking?

Answer: Yes. Igbo banking was more in the nature of Savings and Loans. The authentic Igbo savings and loans invention called "Isusu' in which contributions are pooled each week and one person, who has the need, collects, is still in practice. Igbo slaves took this invention to the Caribbean Islands where they still practise it and call it "Sue Sue."

Question: Some people say that Igboland is too small for the Igbo, that they have no alternative than to live as Nigerians: is this true?

Answer: False. Igboland is a large country. Do every Igbo need to stay and work in Igboland? No. Everywhere in the world, some will stay home while others venture abroad in search of opportunities. Igboland is large enough for the Igbo. And it is a very rich and hospitable part of the world. It has rich soil for agriculture, abundant rainfall, good sunshine, and table land in many parts. Its land space and population are more than that of over half of the present countries in the world.

Question: Where did the Igbo come from?

Answer: That question is still being asked. There are very intriguing theories or histories now being studied. You may have heard of the Jewish angle, the Egypt angle, and the Origin of man angle. This twenty-first century, hopefully, will resolve the mystery.

Question: Why do people say that the Igbo are not united?

Answer: Those who say so, do so out of ignorance. The Igbo are famous for their unity. In the colonial period and the First Republic of Nigeria, the Igbo were always envied for their unity. Under Igbo Union, they accomplished many things. They were feared by others for this. Since after the war, the Igbo are gradually recovering and getting rid of the individualism they developed brought about by their war experience which enabled them to survive as a disinherited people. Now, there are vigorous efforts to reunite them and return them to their old glory which served them well in the past.

Question: Some people say that the Igbo are susceptible to being bought by some other Nigerians, and that they "sell" the Igbo in the bargain; is this true?

Answer: The same parroting and recycling of unfounded talk. When you hear such a talk, challenge the one who is mouthing it to give you evidence, or to cite an example of such an Igbo person. He is likely to say "what of Jim Nwobodo?" Tell him that the Igbo number about 40 million, if it would be fair for the action of one person to represent the integrity of the other 3.99.9 million. The truth is that an Igbo is like any other human being, when he sees where he can take advantage of a situation, he goes for it. It has nothing to do with "selling." Were we not told that fish clusters where the river was deepest or that the dog follows he who has crumbs? Not long ago in the history of Nigeria, other Nigerians were also running after the Igbo for crumbs because the Igbo were in position to call the shots. Things will not remain as they are today. In fact, things are changing fast.

Question: Why are other Nigerians always persecuting the Igbo?

Answer: I have always tried to know myself. I am one of those who believe that the Igbo are among the most peaceful people on earth. But, because of the fact that they are very hardworking, ambitious, and not afraid to live anywhere, or take up any task, they tend to be resented by their less ambitious and successful neighbors or hosts. When you confront a non-Igbo to say what specific offense the Igbo have committed against them, oftentimes they draw blank, or engage in fabrications, which they insist must stand for a fact. The Igbo believe in live-and-let-live. It is virtually impossible for any Igbo to rise against their guests or hosts. It has never happened in Nigeria, or elsewhere. It is an abomination in Igboland for a host to cause his guest harm. Instead, a guest is considered metaphysically and physically under the protection of the host. All Igbo deities forbid doing harm to a guest. The Igbo are accused of "loving money." I suppose the charge is based on the fact that they work hard and acquire money in the bargain. One would like to believe that the outcome of hardwork is good harvest and hopefully prosperity. If anybody takes offense at the prosperity of a hardworking person, then the Igbo or for that matter any other person or persons, have no apologies to render.

Question: Do the Igbo have their own system of jurisprudence before the arrival of the white man?

Answer: Yes. The Igbo had a system of resolving conflicts. The elders were presented with cases that could not be satisfactorily settled within the family or kindred. Matters where veracity must be ascertained, the Igbo resort to spirituality. Oath-taking is a matter left to the spirits to settle. Those who swear falsely were expected to be killed by the spirits within a given period. After the period, he is acquitted and he could celebrate with public merry-making. The Igbo did not have any prisons, but they could ostracise a culprit, exile him, or send him into slavery or to serve to a deity.

Question: Why don't the Igbo teach these things you are telling me to their children?

Answer: In the pursuit of what they taught was the "new way" either from Europeans or o Christianity, the Igbo began to distance themselves from their heritage, and in the process became lost in the wilderness of a world they hardly understand. They have learned their lesson the hard way. The twenty-first century will lead them back home

http://www./Igbo%20101.htm

Kola-Nut -- Symbol of Hospitality


At any village function, the titled man or a village head is presented with kola-nuts, which play a very important social and ritual role in the Igbo culture. The kola-nuts are the highest symbol of Igbo hospitality. Whenever a kola-nut appeared in a gathering, the matter to be discussed at that particular time was regarded as very vital. The offering of drinks, food and meat are not regarded so important in Igbo culture as the offering of kola-nuts. When an important guest visits the community, kola-nuts are brought out and handed to the elder person or the priest. This symbol of Igbo hospitality has three steps and anyone who fails to follow these steps is penalized by the village elders.

The first step is the presentation of the kola-nuts

The second is the breaking of the kola.

The third is the distribution of the kola-nuts.
Below is an example of the role of Kola-Nut amongst the Igbos culled from Chinua Achebe's book, "Things Fall Apart,"


There was a wealthy man in Okonkwo's Village who had three huge barns, nine wives and thirty children. His name was Nwakobie, and he had taken the second highest title man could take in the clan. It was for this man that Okonkwo worked to earn his first seed yams. He took a pot of palm wine and a cock to Nwakobie. Two elderly neighbors were sent to present a kola-nut and an alligator pepper, which were passed round for all to see, and then the kola-nut and alligator pepper were returned to him. We pray for life, children, a good harvest and happiness. You will have what is good for you and I will have what is good for me. Let the kite perch and the eagle perch too. If one says no to the other, let his wing break.
The presentation of kola-nuts is a privilege reserved exclusively for the men. This privilege is denied to women for cultural reasons. When the kola-nut is presented to a guest, the kola-nut travels around until finally it comes back to the host. The elder who is present at the ceremony holds the kola-nut up and says a prayer to the ancestors. Thus, such prayers are said often in Igbo ceremonial gatherings. The gods of the ancestors and all the friendly spirits are summoned together and offered the kola-nuts. The elder demands good health for the good people, and ill health for their enemies and peace for all in the village.

Nigeria: Kano - Beggars On Rampage

Jaafar Jaafar, 26 July 2008, Kano

Source

According to census carried out by the Kano State Government in 2003, there are 1,486,000 beggars in Kano. This figure does not include the multitude of able -bodied men, women and their scrawny-looking children standing at junctions. Some are spotted with pathetic ailments like compound fracture that is deliberately left untreated to attract sympathy. The figure does not also include Down's syndrome patients in wheelbarrows, or others showing off their disfigured visages, or Alzheimer's disease patients being guided around town as tools for begging.

Those included in the 1.5million figure are the battalions of young almajirai (beggars) of kindergarten age who sleep openly in residential areas, roaming around the ancient city barefooted. They are often seen around cafeterias waiting for leftovers. Most of these children are students of the over 26,000 Qur'anic schools-cum-hostels doted around all the nooks and crannies of the state.

Despite the state government's healthcare programmes, in almost every hospital one visits in Kano, the same footage of downright poverty in the street is played out. The sight of people who can ill afford to buy what to eat or what to buy drugs to treat themselves is what greets a visitor. According to reports, under-5 mortality rate in Kano is still higher and maternal mortality is among the highest in the world.

In every neighbourhood and in every street within and outside the metropolis, these children, all of school age, get food by chanting shrill poems at the doorstep of every house, or in every busy market, traffic and bus station, or sometimes in front of private schools for the leftovers of children of the rich.

The menace of begging has become one of the most intractable problems successive administrations in the state have tried in vain to arrest. The sight of beggars everywhere in the street is the yardstick many people use to measure the intensity of poverty in the state.

The Shekarau administration in the state tried to address the problem by attempting to formalise the system through the building of hostels, feeding and giving the vulnerable children vocational training. But the question is how far reaching has this attempt been?

From official documents made available to Weekly Trust from the office of the special adviser on education, there are over 26,000 Tsangaya schools (beggar's schools) in the state, but so far, findings reveal, only 24 hostels have been built for them in the whole state.

Given the fact that development analysts identify illiteracy as the primary cause of poverty in the north, the Kano State government evolved a number of policies to improve the educational standard in the state. The already wide gap in student-teacher ratio is further widening just as the population increases by the day. The state government recently revealed that it had constructed about 150 new schools and employed more than 10,000 teachers but critics nevertheless pick holes in the state government's education policies, saying they are elitist in nature as it spends hundreds of millions to award overseas scholarships, the beneficiaries of which, critics say, come from rich families, or children of those in power.

The commissioner of Education, Alhaji Musa Salihu, recently told newsmen that Kano leads in schools congestion. And recently, the Coordinator, State Education Sector Project, Alhaji Danlami Garba, said that over seventy percent of teachers under basic education level are unqualified.

Findings further reveal that in many of the primary and secondary schools in the state, the student-teacher ratio is 120 to 1 and many schools are converted to hold two sessions in a day due to lack of classrooms.

Another factor that fuels the embers of poverty in Kano is failure by the state government to adopt the programmes and packages of the National Poverty Eradication Programme (NAPEP). According to the Kano State coordinator of NAPEP, Barrister Zakari Wali, the state government does not cooperate in realizing the objectives of their poverty eradication policies.

He told Weekly Trust recently that NAPEP has refocused all its intervention programmes by placing more emphasis on partnership and support for state and Local Governments poverty eradication programmes. He noted that their programmes reflect the federal government's commitment to the fight against poverty, adding that their programmes act as incentives in developing both the public and private sector in the state.

Barrister Wali also stated that they have programmes that will help in curbing poverty in the state if they are given full cooperation by the tiers of government. "We have Multi Partner Matching Funds, Farmers Empowerment Programme, Capacity Acquisition Programme, Promise Keeper Programme, Keke-NAPEP, among others," he said.

The coordinator further explained that people do not benefit from almost all these programmes due to either lack of awareness or lack of government cooperation.

@ the poster
If I were you ,I'll be very careful when hanging out with this friend.
Infact,as long as he insists on being with this diabolic woman,I'll advise you not to be seen anywhere around him or else the day her demons charge excessively, na your head and the husband head together.
The woman is a major psycho.
The voices in her head may just whisper your name as the source of their wahala and you won't escape it.
be warned.

It's not just in Saudi.
Bahrain,Jordan,Afghanistan,Pakistan,Bangladesh,Syria.Uzbekistan, northern Nigeria,Mauritania,Somalia,Sudan,Egypt ,Indonesia etc.
even in the so called secular Turkey,Morocco and and Malaysia.
wherever Islam and sharia are mentioned,evil laws abound oppressive to women and the poor.
If Saudi ,the epitome of "Islamity" is unable to get it right,doesn't that prove that the whole sharia thing is a sham?

It might interest you note that Muslims tout Saudi and her laws as the closest to the ideal sharia .
go figure

Finally:
She gots to be using "WASH PUT".

She no fine so I guess thats her only resort

biko wetin be wash put?

none.
I no dey eat swallow

Eziachi:
This Chioma comes from a very wealthy and powerful family in Amaifeke.
She is a distant niece to former Gov Udenwa.
Her great grand father was the first warrant chief (Eze/king) of Amaifeke, her uncle is Chief George Anasoh (National Taste of People's Club)
I am not surprise, controversy follow this family like flies and rotten meat.

what a shame.
If truly she's using juju,it'll soon come back to bite her

oyb:
behind every unsuccessful man is a scarlet woman pushing him off the cliff

and behind every succesful man is a woman pulling him down

i heard that from a man

tpia don't let these people get under your skin.

am I expected to respond?

DeReloaded:
Pathetic how the useless stepfather that raped her will most likely be "pardoned" yet the mother is excommunicated. Pathetic excuse of a church.

Very true.

who in their right mind would let a 9 year old rape victim carry a pregnancy?
perhaps mallams in northern Nigeria not people who have brains.
I guess in their sick minds they would have preferred the girl dead from pregnancy and childbirth

oyb:
deafening silence from most of the christians on the board. . . 

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-230415.0.html
relevant quote:

from our very own dawoda -   

this thread gives the lie to that. at least for nairaland Christians no round condemning whatsoever. eagerly awaiting his 'criticisms of his own' - he must have missed this thread because he was monitoring the Islam threads .

dawodas aspiring clone, no2commonsense, is also no where to be found.

see as the thread struggle to reach five posts

now, if the equivalent had happened in any middle eastern country, osisi would have been up in arms - remember the girl punished in saudi arabia? and this thread would have reached 10 pages.

offtopic : in the world as it is today, i consider latin america/the phillipines  to be the closest thing to wholly christian nations run on christain values

TOH answered you well.
are the condemnations not by Christians?
what else do you want to hear?
I'm not an advocate of the Catholic Church either.
What they did here is despicable ,I'm anti abortion too but if this were my 9 year old, most certainly I'll do exactly like this mom.
This mother and her child could go to another Church,that's the difference between you and us.
If this was Islam and it's sharia, do you realise the 9 year old would most likely be stoned at the village square amidst shouts of allahu akhbar.
do you want me to give an example?

no talk am? osisi no dey see forest wey dey her eye. . .

lets see how far she can nurture this thread -

oyb is that your only comment here?
Imagine your own beloved grandma Hajiya Risikat being flogged in a village square for asking a nephew by marriage to buy her a loaf of agege bread.

jakumo you no go kill porson with ya comments