RedboneSmith:


I honestly don't know how you guys can type things like this with a straight face.


And why do you use your mod power to get into a quoted comment and make alterations. That's messed up and so not right, dude.

In ur opinion his assertion makes less sense to you than that of the bombastic revisionist he was responding to right?

Cire80:
I've always admitted that Igbo name and Igbo language has been existing in Ika land for a few centuries which suggests there must have been some unrecorded Igbo migration into Ika land. My problem with you guys is making bogus speculations and going to the extent of fabricating and concocting non existing history. We Ika people know our history. You don't come to our land and tell us we're settlers and should vacate our ancestral land. This is the height of insolence. This attitude is the reason Igbo is hated today by every other groups

Back to your question. The percentage of Igbo names and words in Ika is very minimal. It not up to 20% about 3 centuries ago. There are many factors responsible for the encroachment of Igbo language into Ika and one of them is the Colonial masters and Christianity. The Colonial masters imposed Igbo on us - Even the Edos said Igbo and Yoruba was imposed on them though I don't know how it happened. Our ancestors were thought Igbo and Igbo language was used in churches and courts and many other places. Many people today can't pray in Ika language except in Igbo language. Even I can't say "Our Lord's Prayer" in Ika because I was thought that in Igbo. Churches like Catholic, Baptist, Anglican, even Cherubim and many other churches do all their recitals in Igbo and it's the norm to try to pray in Igbo language. Igbo was like the Latin of Ika churches still existing till date.

Another factor is the population of Igbo speakers. Igbos are existing in 5 States and these 5States States have little amount of non Igbos in them. The Igbo States are mostly populated by Igbo people which shows the Igbos have always had a very high population. Inspite of Igbos populating 5 States, there is no where you go to without seeing a high number of Igbos. You guys are everywhere. Some years back when I was in Abuja, I sometimes wonder if Abuja is turning into Igbo land. All the taxi, molue and even El rufai drivers are Igbo. Wherever you go to, they speak Igbo to you as if it's the new lingua franca of Nigeria. If you reply in English, you see a great shock on their face. Same thing with Lagos. Even outside of Nigeria, Igbos are everywhere in large numbers.

And wherever Igbos are large number, they invade and occupy and make that place their home. No intention of going back home. After that, they start looking for ways to rename the place and Igbonize it. If they see for instance, a place called Ife for instance, they wouldn't call it Ife but they will call it a name like Ifeyinwa, and concoct a story of how a certain Ifeyinwa is the founder of that place. And if Igbos are there in large numbers or if this place is close to Igboland, this name and story will stuck wiping away the original name and history. They also do this for people's name and words. I'm talking from experience and observations.

Another way Igbos influence others is the media including movies, and music (especially gospel music) and other means. I can go on and on.

I thought I was discussing with sensible and right thinking people
Dunno where to start.
This is what you call bombastic silliness...scratch that...this tripe above is legendary silliness.
Someone sat down and typed this out and presented it with confidence as "facts"
Smh.

Monkeydeychop:



You sound like a smart guy. I still reckon the igbanke people migrated to edo land at some point in time. Either way after Nigeria is dissolved they should migrate back. Same with the ijaws who seem to be every where this days both in the south east and south west. Every body should be ready to go back. No more Nkechi and chinenye in my lands.

Lol.
You are clearly taking artificial state boundaries to be equivalent to precolonial ethnic boundaries...
Or you are just uninformed on how migration works.
If your wish comes true, the artificial boundaries would only be readjusted to what it was before the formation of "Edo" state.
As to your last statement, cmon now
There were Igbo, Yoruba, igalla people in the ancient Bini empire.
Are you not aware Agho Obaseki's lineage is from Asaba? Bini like all other conquering monarchies absorbed neighbouring tribes and ethnic groups.
That was not a bad thing.

bigfrancis21:


This is a deep question that many of them would barely be able to give a cogent answer to. This question is deep in that when asked it leaves the other person in deep thoughts figuring out why they speak Igbo and not Edo and it points them to the most possible answer but in their mind reject that which seems to be most likely the truth and they return to their regular mantra as usual.

No they can't, have never and will never be able to.
If the criteria for survival during the civil war in Ika land was for one to speak Edo or recite the lists of say the last 20 Oba's of Bini, or even give the the official greetings of any random quarters in the Edo royal family...
You and I both know the Ikas would have been wiped out, as these self acclaimed descendants of Bini "princes" would never have been able to deliver.
The much to be commended silence or rather complete ignoring by the Edo's...is what has given them and their cousins the room to weave historical fabrications without fear of corrections or public shaming.
But then, I think the Igbos should be very wary of these people. A people who can deny themselves and their ancestry with a straight face and with so much shamelessness do not deserve to be taken as kith and kin.
Their inferiority complex will play out sooner or later in either sabotage or gross discrimination.

Monkeydeychop:


The oba of Benin does not see them as his people. They are settling tribes

I sort of disagree with the settling part, a lot of unrelated groups and tribes were inadvertently carved into "states" when the military boys were doing their thing.
The Igbankes and Ekpons are good examples.
They did not MIGRATE nor SETTLE into where they now live, they have always been there.
If history is anything to go by, it was the Bini empire that expanded into and settled into most of the area they now claim as territory.

However, your corrections of very popular historical views among the Aniomas would have been a small thing if it was a completely Anioma phenomenon.
You need to listen to the Onichas, Ogutas and Ogbarus who have taken Bini cultural influence to another level of interpretation. How these people managed to convince themselves they are descendants of next door Bini is the most hilarious tripe I've heard in a long time.
I won't even bother with the Ikwerres and their Akalaka was a Bini prince lullaby.
Kudos to the Bini's for not flipping and taking all these bogus claims and counter claims to Bini origin calmly and without giving any room for rancour or outrage. Now that is class and royalty.
The Igbos I know would have turned the whole affair into a free for all rofo rofo mudslinging fight

Cire80:
you're a joke. What's up with that links you keep on pasting around?

Cmon dude where is your sense of humor now
I have been asking a very simple question all these while...
How did the Obi of Issele Ukwu came to bear the name Nduka Ezeagwuna?
And are the names of your kings overwhelmingly Igbo?
Mind you, I have no point to prove here and I'm also no claiming anything as you guys wrongly assume...
Take it that you are educating someone seeking for answers...
Just calmly explain to me, in light of all the history and story you and others have been telling about Ikas...
how and how not you are related to Binis and Igbos...
How did the Obi of Issele Ukwu came to bear the name Nduka Ezeagwuna?

PS: If you have not figured out that story about Igbonization and trading is a joke, I'd advise you should not bother replying me.

Cire80:
But Pablo, why are you quoting me along that mad man? Does any of the things he wrote make sense? Even saying Itsekiri is more related to Edo than Urhobos and Isoko is the height of his stupidity. I've seen Benin people that said Esans are not real Edo and this one is here talking trash. Ika is more related to Edo than Itsekiri is. But the Urhobos and Isokos are the most related and this one is here talking trash

Come on dude,
You can see how ignorant he is
Just imagine his confusion at seeing that Iselle Ukwu king in Edo royal attire and standing before the Oba,
he must have been feeling all warm and cozy at seeing such a warm, original display of Edo history,
only to read his name as Nduka Ezeagwuna
Dude would prolly be like WTF?
I was too, when some friends from Anioma sold me the Edo but Igbo speaking bit,
I too was like WTF
I dug in as an amateur historian and all I could see was...you guess what?
Don't worry, you can help cure his ignorance here.

PS:http://www.royaldiary.com.ng is not an Igbo site as you predictably thought. Its an Ika site
You could point him there to read the finer points of Edo history in Anioma.

Monkeydeychop:


Go and read your Biafra people posting that igbanke people in edo state are with them I'm basically saying those people are igbos and will vacate the state once Biafra is actualised.

Op some of your migrant Edo princes appear to have an identity crisis...
from telling you everything about them screams Edo, to telling how they are Edo internally but Igbo on the surface,
to claiming non-Edo, its tiring really
They even suspect any "Edo" website that does not recognize they are Igbo speaking descendants of Edo princes
Maybe you can help out and assist them in sorting out their history...do it as a service to those great Edo princes who lost it to Igbo traders

Hear this one...

Cire80:
And what makes you think Edo website represents Edo? What website is that? What makes you think Edo website can't lie? Website was written by an individual and do you know that the Benin Royalty has dispelled lots of the things Egharavba wrote in his book? Which shows it was just his opinion and not fact. Have I ever told you I'm Edo? And what about the other points I made? How did they add up with your fabrications you called fact?

Monkeydeychop:


Again go and read what your biafran brothers are saying that igbanke is Igbo blah blah they want to claim part of edo.

Simply tell the settlers in esan land who are ika and ekpon people to move out of the state.

I'm not a tribalist. Edo's can't come to anambra and say onitsha people are edo's and will their land is ours etc.

Op you sound ignorant of your own history, some of your princes were so much in love with Igbo goods,
that after buying whatever it was that they bought from the Igbos, they forgot they were Edo princes who just happened
to be trading with Igbos
Never mind that they have never had an Edo dialect from time immemorial
...it's due to the awesome power of Igbo trading!
Not to worry, if u dig deep enough and you are "honest", you will discover Ika/Anioma is only Igbo on the surface, but Edo within
Hear it from one of your long lost descendants of "Edo princes"

Cire80:
You have a psychological problem of trying to attach so much importance to the trashes you call comments. And you obviously lack compression.

Read my comment. I said most Ikas don't understand Edo but I understand Edo from my understanding of Ika language because I know the deep Ika. I never said anything about Academic research. Research must not be academic. I make my research from my experience, observations and interactions. and asking my elders questions. You make your own research mostly with online fabrications and concoctions. Ika is mostly Igbo on the surface, but try to scratch out the surface and it turns mostly Edo

Monkeydeychop:
There are igbos trying to include edo in their Biafra agenda and I came to put that shit to an end. Esans did not mate with Igbo people. There are settler tribes like anioma and ekpon people in edo state today who carry Igbo names but that's Because they are Igbo! Gradually they are coming to grab esan land and annex themselves into our beautiful Benin history. Lai Lai God forbid please don't try it! There's a reason why they were absconded by the oba of Lagos and I hope the o a of Benin does the same before shit gets out of hand.
Ika and ekpon people please o no offence but you people are not Esans, you are merely settlers from Igbo land.
We Esans, Afemai, etsako etc are all bini people from the Benin empire.
Infact Yoruba's in ondo, ekiti and some parts of Lagos and ogun are also descendants of the empire. There is no Igbo in our history. Our god of thunder is esango not amadioha.
Any Igbo man you here trying to include edo in their Biafra thing, warn them not to. Edo's do not even belong to the south south. We are our own Midwest identity. Even the delta people we are not related to them all, only the itsekiri people. The rest of them were just slaves who's language evolved to something similar to ours. Nothing more.

If Nigeria is to split, we are either going as our own Midwest region or we'd join oduduwa. But not niger delta or Biafra. Every body is just trying to grab edo and her history even the ijaw people in edo who are now saying they're the traditional owners. Oloshi. All foreigners should just leave my state please. They should either submit to the language and culture or go. Lagos now yoruba is included in their assemblies. Meanwhile in edo I'm seeing so called esan people from so called "ekpon" ethnic group answering names like Nkechi and chinenye instead of omoye or omosede. Please you are not Esans. You are simply Igbo! Don't distort or try to force yourselves into our history.
Thanks

@Monkeydeychop
You apparently do not know how awesome and powerful the Igbos are...
they are the only people in the world that can make you forget your language, origin and culture through trading...
some of your brothers and princes somehow got Igbonized through trading and forgot their Edo origins...
the Igbonization is what led them to start bearing names like Nkechi and Chinenye...
I can feel your pain, imagine an Edo king from Issele Ukwu bearing Nduka Ezeagwuna
You see why the Igbos are awesome and powerful, if not devious?

So Op sorry, because unfortunately for you....

Cire80:
unfortunately for you, my history and culture all scream Edo. The falsehood is coming from you guys. We in Anioma cherish our history and culture. The day you guys stop your concoctions, senseless postulations, propaganda and fake theorems is the you see more Aniomas being more comfortable around you guys. You guys are very desperate that's the problem.
Trade is just one of the way Anioma became Igbonized. We've treated this but the problem with you guys is that you're very selective.
And I'm not anti Igbo. I'm highly pro Ika/Anioma but that doesn't make me anti Igbo

@Monkeydeychop

Op really??
What do you mean now?

This guy here disagrees vehemently with you

Cire80:
Only ignorant Edos call us Igbo. The more knowledgeable ones know of our relationship. Go to Edo websites and Facebook groups/pages and other cultural Facebook pages where there are knowledgeable Edos and see how they proudly profess our brotherhood. Urhobos call us Igbo for political reasons. That's fact. They're still pained about many things and their grievances keep on increasing day by day. I've been with educated Edo and Urhobo friends and they're all aware of our brotherhood. And as for your suggestion, I think it's a good idea but that can only happen if you guys don't stop your desperation in trying to wipe off our history and culture with your propaganda machine. BTW one doesn't become Igbo because someone else thinks he's Igbo. You are what you are and you are what you believe you are.

Cire80:
So true. Igbos come to your land, give an Igbo meaning to your town name and other words and eventually corrupt them and later start claiming it to be the original name.

Wow
Igbos must be so powerful!
And here I was thinking they are the ones leading the pack of political cluelessness in the country
You mean Igbos were able to come over to your "land", displace your Edoid kings and princes, after displacing them,
these Igbos went ahead to rename your kings, male and female names you give to your newborns, market days,
names of commodities, names of towns and villages...to the point that they have replaced your mighty ancient language....
with and Igbo dialect

Oh dear! How come these conquering Igbos did not conquer the Hausas, Fulanis, Yorubas?
Or even their Igalla, Idoma, Ibibio, Ijaw and Efik neighbours?
Why only Ikas/Aniomas?
I am thinking the Igbos have always been biased and envious of Ika greatness and powerfulness
Right?

Abagworo:


Ika is majorly not part of Igbo in mind and commitment to Igbo things. Language we may share but common fronts we lack.

The question for me though, is how did they come about speaking an Igbo dialect, bearing Igbo names, having undeniable Igbo culture?
You know for a self acclaimed Bini people? Who don't even speak Edo?
Who have always had Bini right next door since precolonial times?
How come? You sound familiar with the matter.
Are you buying into the hilarious we are Bini but Igbo speaking tripe?
Care to share?

Cire80:
They are not the same thing. If you read the previous posts, we talked about words having same spelling but different pronunciations and different meanings. This is one of them. But like we earlier said, all you guys need to ascribe an Igbo meaning to any Ika word is similar spelling. You guys have even tried to give Igbo meaning to words that don't even have any similar Igbo word like Ominijie, Agbon, Dein and many other Ika words but you've failed.

Lol
You guys are still on I see.
How you all cleverly avoided explaining how Nduka Ezeagwuna came to be the name of a king in Ika land is still d topic...just Incase...
Also, this talk of ascribing Igbo meanings to words that are already Igbo betrays your ignorance of the topic under discussion.
Like I mentioned in previous threads...you lots need to travel further to the east and find out really what you ACTUALLY share.
Your denials will only end up making you look funnier than the Onichas in Anambra when they were confronted with the fact...that there were more Onichas in the Igbo hinterlands...than Onicha Mmili and Onicha Ugbo.
So which came first?
The Eze in Ika or the Eze in SE Igbo land?
Or the Umu Eze Chima's Onicha came before the many more Onichas around?
Apparently, inherited ignorance and an inherited attitude towards all things Igbo will make a man bearing Emeka Esogbue...in a country sharply divided along ethnic lines..deny the Igboness of his name...and the language he speaks...while affirming another identity of a people right next door...who do not speak his language or bear the same name as him.
Point is...you Ikas and Aniomas have a boatload of history to set right.

ehikwe22:
you do not see anything wrong in been double faced because that's what you are as well. This same guy agreed he was biased but you're here defending him. He Changed tone when one of you guys finally wrote something nice about Edo, how are you sure he won't turn around and start arguing on the other side tomorrow when someone else insults Edo.? People like that are dubious but to you as an Igbo man, it's normal.

debating with you guys is like debating with little babies there will never be progress because you will keep on saying the same nonsense over and over again. All the Kings you listed are current kings and some of them have started adopting Igbo sounding names but there are still some with Edo names. If names is what you want to use as a point, can you kindly go down the genealogy of these kingdoms and paste a list of their predecessors ? Didn't we tell you that Ika people used to bear Edo names but now bearing Igbo names? What's the point of pasting 21st century kings when it's been agreed that ikas now bear more of Igbo names? Igbo language and Igbo names didn't start encroaching into Ika land in the 20th century. It started way before that but the influence was very minimal. Ika was much more Edoid. The 20th century influence was too much because of some factors that has been listed here.

Though there was not a time Ikas enslaved the Igbos, Igbon is a derogatory name for the Igbos. That aside, it's possible for masters to adopt language of slaves if the slaves and examples abound in world history. Coming nearer home, Opobo is an example. Even almighty Fulani has been Hausanized. Many Fulanis can no longer speak Fulfude or can only speak a diluted version.

You my friend, like the rest of you fabricators of history, are simply living in denial.
And no, you don't even know if I'm Igbo, I am here because I am interested in Nigerian history.
If you visit other Hausa and Yoruba threads you will probably find my posts there.
I just find this whole Ikwerre, Anioma "Igbo" denial thing curious and uncalled for.

It has been pointed out to you severally, that there is no need for any "Igbo" denial or acceptance, it is simply a futile exercise.
You can and should be anything you want, no one really cares.
But in your quest for "identity", "glory" or whatever, historical accuracy is paramount cos you and your people are NOT the only ones in the picture. Other people who might or might not share ancestry with you are involved.
For example, there is no way you can talk about the presidency of Nigeria without including Fulani dominance or discuss the Nigerian military without including Hausa/Fulani dominance. These are HISTORICAL FACTS. A few hundred years from now, Tiv people who are yet to produce a President or COAS cannot start rewriting the history of Nigerian Presidency or military high command to SUIT THEIR INTERESTS.
Hope you get the point.

Let me summarize for you.
The slogan on that Ika site reads
Ali Ika Wu Ali Eze
That my friend is Igbo language, to be more specific, Southern/Owerre Igbo dialect.
It is not Edo, Urhobo, Ijaw,Igalla or Yoruba language.
The Edos do not speak that language neither do any of Ikas surrounding neighbours.
ONLY the Igbos speak that language or can understand what statement means, it has no meaning in ANY other language.

The names of your market days are Afor,Orie, Eken and Nkwor
Those are not Edo, Urhobo, Ijaw,Igalla or Yoruba market day.
Those names and market days ARE EXCLUSIVE TO Igbo people.

Your marriage rites include items such as these,
http://www.royaldiary.com.ng/royal-diaries/ika-royal-diary/151-ika-traditional-marriage-requirements-standardization-and-formalisation

i. Egho ikoro (Money for the male youths/age group) ₦100
ii. Egho lgbagba (Money for young girls/age group) ₦100
iii. Egho ndi nwunyen (Money for house-wives) ₦200
iv Egho lkpon-oior (Money for elderly women in the family) ₦200
v. Egho ljenozi (Money for the marriage go-between) ₦100
vi Egho Mmundu (Money for the children of the house) ₦50
vii. Egho ndi ri mmulor (Money for those other persons who live with the lady in the house)

The names of those items up there are NOT Edo, Igalla or Yoruba names,
those are marriage item lists in an Igbo dialect and only has meaning in the Igbo tongue.
Only Igbo people have marriage lists with those names.

Here are some of the names of your "royal fathers"

UCHE IRENUMA II The Obi of Abavo Kingdom
DR. BENJAMIN IKENCHUKWU KEAGBOREKUZI I The Dein of Agbor kingdom
IKECHUKWU NKEOBIKWU OSEDUME The Obi of lgbodo
DR. IFEANYICHUKWU ALEKWE II The Obi of Mbiri Kingdom
COLLINS ALIOMA EZENWAL II The Obi of Otolokpo Kingdom
EMMANUEL ONYEIKE EFEIZOMOR II, the Obi of Owa Kingdom
DR. AGADAGIDI EZEAGWU EZENWALII JP The Obi of Umunede Kingdom
OBI AGBOGIDI STEPHEN CHUKWUYERIEZE OSAGIE Ill JP The Obi of Akumazi
DR. G. CHUKWUMA JEKEME I The Obi of Ute-Ogbeje Kingdom
SOLOMON CHUKWUKA I, JP The Obi of Ute-Okpu Kingdom
MBURICHE VINCENT ODILI The Okpara-Uku of ldumuesah Kingdom

You will not find those names among the Ishans, Urhobos, Ijaws,Binis, Igallas or Yorubas.
Ikechukwu,Chukwuka, Chukwuma, Odili,Jekeme, Chukwuyerieze, Alekwe, Uche are names EXCLUSIVE to Igbos.
You can see and count for yourself...ALL Igbo names with smatterings of Edo names like Osagie and Efeizomor etc, which is to be expected seeing that historically, there have been Edo migrants and "princes" who settled and helped set up some of these "monarchies" in an otherwise gerontocratic community with no practice of monarchy. Yes, history records that most of these "kingdoms" and "kings" are recent.
Now the question is, do the presence of these Edo settlers and refugees now mean that the people they met on ground are NOW Edos?
Or did the survival of Igbo language and cultural practice point to the fact that the NATIVES were Igbo speaking people from day one?

To insinuate that such names were adopted after saying that Ikas hold Igbos in contempt and openly have a derogatory name "Igbons" for Igbo people...only highlights the level of your dishonesty and self deceit.
Why did the Ogonis, Ibibios, Efiks, Annangs, Ekoi, Igallas and Idomas also adopt "Igbo" names? Why ONLY Ikas/Aniomas?
Are you implying the Igbos invaded and conquered Ikas?
Or the proud "Bini" culture and language of Ikas gave way to the inferior "Igbon" culture and language of Igbos...whom you love to hate?

Go to Abia, Ebonyi and Enugu, there are full blooded Igbo people bearing Ibibio names such as Inyang, Igalla names like Achadu, Attah etc.
There was and still is an ongoing process of inter ethnic mixture,marriage and cultural exchanges.
The fact that there are people bearing Edo names in Ika land is living proof of Edo mixture and cultural influence.
That is not a bad thing and is only following the course of history.
IT IS TO BE EXPECTED as no ethnic group is 100% pure.
But is that proof of Edo origin or proof that the over 90% of Ikas who bear Igbo their NATIVE Igbo names are now Edos or only starting "adopting" Igbo names?
Also stop with that "Igbon" nonsense...that is simply the ways Ikas pronounce Igbo words, just like the ways Owerri people, Awka people pronounce Igbo words....hence a dialect.
For example, in Ika dialect, Ikechukwu becomes Ikenchukwu, Okpara becomes Okparan, Igbo becomes Igbon etc
It is just an example of Ika and Anioma bigotry to regard "Igbon" as a derogatory name, just the same way Onitsha and their Oguta and Ogbaru cousins call other Igbo people "onye Igbo" like its meant to be an insult.
You all conveniently forget, that "Igbo" is the name these "Igbo" people have always called themselves.
Their names and towns all have "Igbo" in it, IgboUzor (Ibusa), Igbokwe, AmaIgbo, Igboezue, Obigbo etc. So the joke is on you actually.

So you see, based on these evidences, it is clear that Ikas speak an Igbo dialect, practice Igbo culture and tradition,adopted Edo style monarchies and till today have more in common with other Igbo speaking peoples than their Edo,Ishan, Igalla, Urhobo, Itshekiri and Ijaw neighbours.
Those are the facts I and others have been trying to point out to you guys.
And this Igbo presence in Ika was not as a result of invasion, colonization, trading or Christian evangelization like you guys are trying to portray it, neither was it recent. That would be rewriting history...which is why I am here to call you guys to order.

Ofcourse I expect you to dismiss all these evidences and go on repeating the same nonsense...

ehikwe22:
Who's bringing emotions? You're the one that's blinded by prejudice that you can't differentiate between A and B. Someone was arguing right and just turned around and started arguing left but you in your demented state don't see anything wrong with such fellow because that's exactly how you are. There's an extent a people lie and they no longer see anything wrong in lying and even start believing in their lies

You are either being silly or just trying too hard.
Was expecting you to call him an Igbo man trying to steal your wonderful Bini heritage
The above actually applies to you...not the other way round.

You prefer him embellishing and concurring with your inherited historical lies and fabrications
Are you AWARE Bini people know who you Ika/Anioma folks are and your historical background?
I mean with the flagrant disregard for history you and your people have consistently shown, why are you
still holding on to Igbo dialects, Igbo customs and anything Igbo when Bini is just your next door neighbour?
You deny and dismiss any evidence or talk that goes against your packaged historical improvisations?
Ok, I get it...you folks not only suffer from a deep identity crisis, you also hate anything that your ancestors were or stood for.
Sad, really sad.

Just tell the world, how the Obi of Agbor and all your Obis started bearing Igbo names...leave the dialect part, market day part and all other visible parts of Igbo culture you practice.
Just tell us how the hated Igbos began hawking Igbo names and market days to your "Bini" ancestors in the 20th century

To get you started, hear is a list of your Ika market days
http://www.royaldiary.com.ng/royal-diaries/ika-royal-diary/152-major-markets-in-ika-nation

and here is a list of your your Ika royal fathers
http://www.royaldiary.com.ng/royal-diaries/ika-royal-diary/149-royal-fathers-of-ika-nation
I leave it to you to present their names and the names of their "kingdoms".
Geez all descendants of "Bini" princes wearing Bini royal vestments...but bearing Igbo names and what not.
Let's blame it on the Igbos.

Go through the site and except you are blind to facts, tell me why the Igbo element is so DOMINANT despite all the "comings" from Bini
stories and the "foundings" by Bini refugees.
Also the Bini refugees met empty land and produced generations of people who bought Igbo language, market days and names from the far flung "Igbons".
Were the Igbos also hawking Igbon names and market days back then?
This una history e be as e get sha

And wait, the slogan says Ali Ika Wu Ali Eze. O me lord! Don't you love your Edo language!
What happened to Oba, Enogie etc
I know, its those Igbons again!
They smuggled so many Igbo words(in their trading canoes) across the River Niger into the pure Ika Bini language in the 20th century.
I think I finally get it...its the fault of the Igbons right?

hammerF:


GUY IF U WANT INSULT, U SIMPLE SAY, U WILL LOSE THAT MATCH TOO.

COME WITH FACTS AND STOP SPEAKING IGNORANTLY.

I AM STARTING TO DOUBT IF U ARE EDUCATED AT ALL.


U CANNOT DIFFERENTIATE BINI AND EDO, BUT YET U WANT TO DEBATE?


WAT EXACTLY, WILL U ARGUE, WEN U DONT KNOW THE BASICS?

You are funny.
Should have guessed from your contributions so far.
No need to engage you further.

hammerF:



Guy go sleep, u will fare better wen u wake up.

Read ur first post to me and see how u have completely gone off point.

From Bini, it is now Edo.

I hope u know that with Edo we have the Igboid areas that speak Ika i.e Igbanke and then some yoruba parts up North, Igala part up North and other various parts such as Ebira.

Edo consist of too many different groups distinct from Bini.

I no go reply u again. Bye

It's either you have a comprehension problem or you are simply confused.
I'm aware Igbo is spoken in Rivers and Delta states...that's the whole point of this thread anyway. Is that the point you were trying to make?
You want to add Ikwerre and other Igbo speaking lands as evidence of what?
Clearly state it...
Edo consisting of 1 million groups has no bearing on the "facts" you came up with.
Bini's driving out Igbos and joining with Yorubas to create the Bini language
Where did you pick that from?
And your replies just keep getting off point...
Provide proof for your facts"...that's the challenge I posed to you.
Or you can just run away and claim superior knowledge only available to you.

hammerF:


Please follow the tangent and stop going off point, i dont have the time or patience for retarded arguement here.

I clearly addressed area u raised and raised questions that u obviously cannot answer judging by this response. Wat u do is to run to wikipedia and trump up figures that u admit might be wrong and talk completely off point.

This might be my last reply to u. I leave u to engage the bini boyz in an incoherent barracking and interjections.

By the way, see wat u said below, now u have deviated to the 5 geopolitical zones. Here is a link to Delta State and River State and the languages spoken in both state. In case u dont known igbo is spoken in Delta and Rivers officially recognised. Unofficial all the bordering states to the south east have either igbo speaking town or villages.

Sigh

This what you posted as FACTS

hammerF:



Facts! Anioma are the first migrants to the the Delta and Edo axis.

Facts! Benin colonised them in the 15th Century and imposed its political structure.

Facts! Igala arrived from the north to anioma much later but earlier than the Olukomi.

Fact! Benin and Igbos migrated back and forth from Delta to Edo and even Onitsha.

Fact! Benin share a lot of similar words and culture with Igbos and yoruba.

Fact! Urhobo and Esan are Edoid culture and migrated from Bini much later. Evidence is their language is Bini.

Fact Igbos are the original people to settle in Bini and mix with yorubas and as a result the Bini Language was created.

Fact today, intertribal couples end up speaking English at home, back then they had to invent a new language for themselves as we see in Isoko where ijaw is mixed with urhobo.

And I challenged you on this

hammerF:

Fact Igbos are the original people to settle in Bini and mix with yorubas and as a result the Bini Language was created.

I did not even bother to address your other "facts" cos apparently you have little knowledge of the subject matter.
I asked you FIRST to provide PROOF or evidence that the Igbos were the first to settle in Bini...which ofcourse you only
came up with more arguments and skipped.
I then showed you that there is no way the what you posted as FACT could be true because:

1) The contrasting social,cultural and political backgrounds of Binis and Igbos does not support your argument.
If it did, the two cultures would have rubbed off each other.
Or oral evidence would have survived to buttress that fact.
Cue the Romans and Gauls, the Fulanis and the Habes, Fulanis and surrounding tribes in Adamawa etc.
The implication of your posted "FACTS" would mean that they were sister cultures, when infact nothing like that existed.
The Binis had highly organized political systems, organized armies, carried out military campaigns,urban centres, diplomatic relations with foreign kings, were empire builders.
The Igbos on the other hand, had nothing in terms of politics, military and empire to what the Bini empire was.
I hope that concept is not too abstract for you to wrap your head around.

2) The landmass occupied by Bini speaking people way before the colonials came shows that the Igbos were not even in the picture.
And the Binis have no oral history of coming from anywhere else or driving out aborigines from Bini land proper.
And even after Nigeria had been formed and the old kingdoms carved up, present Edo state still occupies a larger land mass than all the SE Igbo states combined.
All the conquered territories by the Bini empire did not include any of the Igbo lands today as we know it.
The closest Bini got to Igbo speaking lands was the Aniocha/Ika lands and my argument in this thread is that those people were and have always been Igbos, albeit influenced and mixed with Bini.
If you have any oral or documented history of the Bini empire conquering Igbo aborigines and driving them out from their lands...please share.
Until then, the lands the Bini empire conquered and occupied had NOTHING to do with Igbo lands as we know it.

Are you also uncomfortable with facts?

hammerF:


The bolded statement is very ignorant and myopic.

I know ur just joining this debate and based on my earlier recommendation, i will let u off softly whilst i correct ur presumptive errors.

The bolded is the only opinion u raised and tried to pass off as a factual statement. The question u have to answer based on that presumption is; when was the Bini empire in its prime? Wat were the component of the Bini empire in its prime? Did it constitute a homogeneous entity or non homogeneous entity? The igbos in this context are presumed to be an homogeneous entity of people with the same language.

"Now let me help u with the answer." If ur insinuation is based on bini being a non homogenous entity, occupying an area much larger than the area occupied by present day igbo speaking states, then ur argument is not only flawed but contradicts the claims u are trying to make.

"I hope u can see ur error already." The British colonised more than half of the world. Does that make United Kingdom much larger than Russia? In the context that the Empire is no more today. This is a very good example, so reflect on it and wat u wrote then equate it to the claims that u are trying to lay.

Here is another historical chip for you, from here http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z3n7mp3

Around 1440, Ewuare became the new Oba of Benin. He built up an army and started winning land. He also rebuilt Benin City and the royal palace.
Oba Ewuare was the first of five great warrior kings. His son Oba Ozolua was believed to have won 200 battles. He was followed by Oba Esigie who expanded his kingdom eastwards to form an empire and won land from the Kingdom of Ife. Ozolua and Esigie both encouraged trade with the Portuguese. They used their wealth from trade to build up a vast army.
The fourth warrior king was Oba Orhogbua. During his reign, the empire reached its largest size. It stretched beyond the River Niger in the east and extended west as far as present-day Ghana.
Oba Ehengbuda was the last of the warrior kings. But he spent most of his reign stopping rebellions led by local chiefs. After his death in 1601, Benin’s empire gradually shrank in size.

Besides the fact that present day Edo state is bigger than all the SE Igbo states combined with extra space left,
the Bini Empire in its heyday extended west as far as present-day Ghana.
I wont bother to contrast the state of development of present Igbo land then as compared to Bini during the time of Oba Orhogbua.
Or the knowledge of geography, settlements along the West African coast, far flung conquests carried out etc...when the Igbos were still living in closely knit village units and had no concept of kings or armies.

Now before you go rambling offpoint again, who is the myopic and ignorant one now?
Get your facts right before you go arguing on topics you know nothing about.

hammerF:


The bolded statement is very ignorant and myopic.

I know ur just joining this debate and based on my earlier recommendation, i will let u off softly whilst i correct ur presumptive errors.

The bolded is the only opinion u raised and tried to pass off as a factual statement. The question u have to answer based on that presumption is; when was the Bini empire in its prime? Wat were the component of the Bini empire in its prime? Did it constitute a homogeneous entity or non homogeneous entity? The igbos in this context are presumed to be an homogeneous entity of people with the same language.

"Now let me help u with the answer." If ur insinuation is based on bini being a non homogenous entity, occupying an area much larger than the area occupied by present day igbo speaking states, then ur argument is not only flawed but contradicts the claims u are trying to make.

"I hope u can see ur error already." The British colonised more than half of the world. Does that make United Kingdom much larger than Russia? In the context that the Empire is no more today. This is a very good example, so reflect on it and wat u wrote then equate it to the claims that u are trying to lay.

Ignorance is what is challenging most Africans, coupled with lack of a reading or research culture.
I will be brief.

These are the areas in square kilometres (km²) covered by each of the SE Igbo states.
Imo 5,530 km²
Abia   6,320 km²
Enugu 7,161 km²
Anambra 4,844 km²
Ebonyi  5,533 km²

TOTAL AREA oF ALL SE IGBO STATES=17,535 km2

Now compare that to the area covered by today's Edo state
Edo 17,802 km²

I used Wikipedia as a quick source, I did not bother to check the official sources, you are free to counter figures above anyway.

Mind you that this is Edo after the British had made the Oba renounce claims to most of his nearby and far flung territories.
Being an Igbo man, I doubt if the concept of conquest and territory would make sense to you, cos its not a concept most Igbo
people identify with or make sense of.
So I wont bother to list the territories Bini controlled before the British deposed Oba Ovamranwen.
Did the Igbos have any territory that the British took away?
I leave it to you to do the math and imagine the size of Bini land proper, territories in today's Ekiti, Ondo, Lagos and all the way down South
to Urhobo and Itshekiri lands.

So who is the myopic and ignorant one here now?

hammerF:


Fact Igbos are the original people to settle in Bini and mix with yorubas and as a result the Bini Language was created.

Now you are looking for trouble
How do you mean and where did you get that information from?
Any research done to come up with that conclusion...care to share?
Please be careful in your statements, Bini in its prime was larger than the area occupied by the present day Igbo speaking states.
Moreover, the stark contrast in social life, culture and political systems between the Edos and the Igbos makes your statement sound very very very ignorant.
Please desist from making ignorant statements like this that will only engender distrust and hatred.
If you do not have the facts to back up your "facts"...then keep it to yourself.
Thanks.

laudate:


This is a huge fallacy! Igbo were the original settlers in Benin?? Chai!! Where is your evidence? Come, has that Oguta girl been giving you something to drink? You are definitely high on something!



You are right!! You Ika guys have done your best. More respect!! You have done your best to unveil the truth, but when some folks close their minds to the truth and chose to believe in sheer conjecture, whose fault is it?

Dude, be a man and stop cheer leading

gerg:
Bro, I thought you guys agreed to leave this thread for them? this argument will never end. And Hundreds of them are still on pending waiting to join. They have the population. But that doesn't make any different to an Ika man.

@Redbonesmith
@Cire80

That's petty and cowardly.
It appears you guys are finally getting a dose of the medicine you been serving out for decades.
When you bear names like Nwachukwu, Nduka, Chime, Ikenchuku, Chude etc and turn around and call other people
bearing the same names "Igbo" or "Igbon"...and vehemently deny any kinship or relationship with them...you have
invited confusion into your midst. It is what it is.
You are yet to tell the world what happened to your Bini names and language.

Its a nameless forum and lots of people are going to be reading, you can join the discussion and post better information
where you think the facts have been misrepresented.
I have personally voiced my opinions, same as others...you are free to counter as you wish.
No one is claiming any ancestral land or any people.
It just beats the imagination the scenario you guys are trying to paint.
How a "king" named Nduka Ezeagwuna has no relationship with anything Igbo but is actually Bini is a sad case of the
dishonesty and penchant for historical inferiority complex that is common to your people.
It is only natural that an Igbo person will take notice and ask questions.
So far the answers have not been forthcoming or have been made out of ignorance.

It is confusing scenarios like the ones you and your people have perpetuated that led to so many innocent lives
being lost in the past. Imagine Bini "princes" being mistaken for "Igbon" slaves...huh? Bad I must say...too bad.
Imagine if you guys had continued speaking your Edo language and bearing Edo names instead of "Igbon" names?
It worked out disastrously for everyone involved in the past, who knows what the future will unfold?
Start now and clarify with intelligent and historically correct answers...
The facts of the matter are just being pointed out to you...and as expected you have no rejoinders.
Or do you?

laudate:


What an interesting perspective!

Sorry but do you ever have an opinion of your own?
I appreciate your wanting to contribute but do so intelligently.
I could be completely wrong in all the points I raised and I am very aware of that.
But I notice you are either cheer leading or side quoting and never for ONCE contributing any original thought, opinion, narrative or perspective to any Igbo themed thread.
Can we hear your own narrative? We are all here to learn you know.

Ngozi123:


We admit that we migrated from the Benin Empire and were once ruled by it but we have always been proud Igbos, which is what that poster was trying to deny.

Personally I have a problem with that statement and I will tell you why. I could be wrong tho and I freely admit it.
When you say migrated from Bini empire...several assumptions are implied.
1) The fugitives who ran for their lives from whatever area of the Bini kingdom they resided were pure Bini people.
2) These Bini people apparently were NOT Igbo people and hence had to use an interpreter to communicate with any Igbo people they
encountered on their outward flight
3) How these fugitives managed to bypass Agbor and the present Aniocha lands without meeting with Igbo speaking peoples but Bini
people all the way is yet to be explained...when you consider the fact they came bearing Igbo names.
4) Its either all the places they got to and settled where settled by non-Bini natives or were bare empty lands...when you consider all the stories
of foundings by Bini "princes" who promptly forgot their language in the shadow of Bini just across the border.
5) By their own claims and counter claims, they had nothing to do with Igbos and only encountered them in passing

Why then is the overwhelming presence of Igbo language,deities, market days and culture the MOST significant trait among these descendants
of Bini "princes"? Like all you see is Bini styled political hiearchies among an overwhelmingly Igbo community.

You see, its either some people are trying to so hard to deny an Igbo presence way back in the old Bini kingdom or the Bini kingdom back then
was surrounded to the south by native Igbo peoples.
I think there were Igbo people in the old Bini kingdom and they were the ancestors of the present Anioma peoples today.
Come to think about it, once you leave Bini and move down south, all you meet is communities of people speaking various Igbo dialects,
from Agbor to Asaba to Ukwuani/Aboh.

Cos there was no way a Bini "prince" could have established a pattern of settlements DIFFERENT from what other known Bini fugitive or non-fugitive princes have established. The examples of Ginuwa in Itshekiri and Asikpa in Eko come to mind.
Not to mention the numerous Bini suzerainties in Ekiti and Ondo today who have acclimatized to the dominant Yoruba culture.
But trace back and you will find the Bini thread linking back to old kingdom without controversy.
These people do not deny their Itshekiri or Awori roots, they gladly point out that their monarchies came from Bini.
They merely adopted the system brought by the Bini visitors and acclimatized them to their native language and culture.
Why is the Anioma case different?

I do not think it is that easy for Bini "princes" to come out running from Bini speaking Igbo and bearing Igbo names.
No my dear, it is highly implausible.
Why did they have to cross the Niger? Why not go further south or further West?
Are you aware that they even journeyed farther into the Igbo hinterlands of Oguta?
Going by all the published works of Onicha/Anioma origins, these fugitives should NOT be Igbo speaking, but speaking at worst
a corrupted Edo tongue and practicing at worst hybrized forms of Edo traditions.
You and I know this is NOT the case.
What you have is a case of a group of migrants who were Igbo speaking from day one.
And what you have in their midst is clear evidences of an Igbo speaking people who were socio-culturally and politically influenced by Bini.

And yes, the superiority thing is actually a form of inferiority complex.
No one invaded them or forced them to differentiate themselves from the "inferior" ndi Igbos.
They are the ones doing the attaching and detaching, as by all accounts, the people they call "onye Igbo" never copied them or their Bini style monarchies or Bini style political hierarchies.
You wont see any vestige of their much acclaimed Bini language, culture or what not among the hinterland Igbos.
So there is no chance of corruption of their core "Edo" language or culture by the hinterland Igbos.
It was the Bini fugitives who copied, adopted and appropriated everything Igbo. Is that not the reality?

It is so glaring that the Bini titles were borrowed when you consider the titles or "afa etutu" of Onicha titled men.
Iyase, Odua,Onowu, Owelle title holders etc all have Igbo proper prefixes like Nnanyelugo, Akunne etc.
Monarchy in Igbo land is a British phenomenon like you know and had the British not intervened, its more than likely the Igbo clans
would have continued in their decentralized system that has been working for them.
Infact it is on record that the early warrant chiefs created by the British who transitioned into "kings" paid Onicha chiefs to tutor them on kingship rituals and ceremony.
Prior to then, the cultural dominance was Igbo through and through...and it was not forced or taught. It was native.
Bini influences and exposure to Bini style monarchies marked the difference btw the Igbo speaking peoples across the Niger along with their Onicha, Ogbaru and Oguta cousins...and the hinterland Igbos.

In summary, I think all available evidence point to the fact the people who fled Bini (methinks its actually Bini environs) and moved from Agbor all the way down to Oguta were native Igbo people. Not Edo and have never been Edo till date.
The names they still bear, their market days, deities, cultural practices...all point to this fact.

Ofcourse, I would love to see contrary evidence. I have been scouting for it.

Ngozi123:


I really don't think that that poster is from Anioma. He has a clear agenda and will distort truths in order to promote it. His comments about Onitsha people were laughable, quite frankly.

Yeah I know.
I had an encounter with an inlaw from one of the Anioma clans that spurred me to investigate this phenomenon of Igbo speaking "Bini" princes and their descendants.
It was a discovery of self inflicted amnesia, outright historical fabrications and gross ignorance...not to mention extreme bigotry.
The Onicha case was saddening really. You see grown, learned men embellishing stories that cannot stand the slightest historical scrutiny.
Aspirants to the Obi throne required to recite the geneology of their Bini fugitive ancestor whose name happens to be Eze Chima.
Ask them why Eze Chima and they dodge and dodge with more funny stories.
And the funniest thing is they love the Igbo language and cultures they sooo love to hate!
Self confessed fugitives and settlers from their beloved Bini, who ran for their dear lives to Igbo lands doing all they can to glorify the people who ejected them and denigrating the people who received them and allowed them flourish in their midst.
The favourite past time of Onicha titled men appears to be accusing each other of being "onye Igbo" or making jests of "nwa onye igbo".
All in pristine Igbo language ofcourse...infact it appears the purest form of Anambra Igbo dialect is around the Idemili-Onicha-Awka cluster.
Sometimes I wonder why the Igbos themselves tolerate these people who so love to put them down without remorse.

Cire80:
Name of God in Ika is Oselobue but some people say chuku. Chuku from all indication is more recent and mostly used by the younger generation. But there is no Chi at all. Ika believe in Ehi as a personal God. and there's a history surrounding it.

Dude do yourself a favour and quit with the historical lies.
Annangs, Ibibios, Ijaws all border Igbo lands and have HEAVILY inter-married with SE Igbos...yet none of them have lost any
of their language or culture to Igbos. Neither is there any controversy over them "recently" having adopted Igbo names or what not.
It is quite shameless indeed the way you lots are going about this.
Lots of people in Owa, Agbor and other Ika communities have ALWAYS and STILL do have surnames and first names with "chi","chuku"
suffixes and prefixes.
You cannot claim ignorance of that fact.
To make your postulations even sillier, the outright denials by Ikas should have culminated in the total erasure of anything remotely "Igbo"
in your names and titles.
Lo and behold, the name of Gov Okowa's father is Mr. Arthur Okorie Okowa who recently celebrated his 83rd birthday.
Going back 83 years ago means going back to a time before Nigeria gained her independence.
Out of all the 80% Edo names available in Ika, he picked a core Igbo name for his son?
So are you saying Gov Okowa's grandfather was an Igbo immigrant in Owa (following you people's assertion)?
Or by that time, the Igbo dominance was so strong that the Ikas out of fear of the Igbos started adopting Igbo names like it
was going out of fashion?
Or the CBN governor whose name is Ifeanyichuku Emefiele. I could go on and on.
Are Edo names that scarce in Ika land?
Or is it the pesky Igbos again smuggling Igbo names across the border?

Why is that you had to go back to investigate "Igbo" names for further clarification?
Are the names fake or not real? Maybe they are NOT supposed to be Igbo names?
Gross ignorance or selective amnesia again of your Igbo heritage...its a recurring feature among you Ika folks.
All the Umu Eze Chima clans have been calling the name of their progenitor Eze Chima from time immemorial.
Do you know something they do not, I mean why you have to come up with Ikhime, Khime or even Cheime?
Have you reached out to them to correct the error and revert to the "correct" Edo form of "Khime" yet?

You guys should get a grip and quit making yourselves look silly.
We get it, you hate Igbos and don't want to have anything to do with them.
That's allowed, but don't go messing around with history.
You will hurt yourself and your posterity...that's besides making complete fools of yourselves.

ehikwe22:
That your dialect is classed as Enuani doesn't mean it's the same with the ones spoken in Delta. You know my reason for mentioning the disparity between those spoken in Delta and outside of Delta. The pure undiluted Enuani is a mixture of Bini, Ika and Igbo hence an Ika person can understand it easily.

I'm not going to comment on this most dominant. You guys are so persistent in your ignorance. I've never seen a people like this that keep on following on their wrong notion no matter what facts you present. I told you all Anioma folks understand each other. Please note, anytime I mentioned Anioma, I'm talking about the Anioma in Delta. The problem with you folks is your straight line thinking. It's very funny. But this makes it hard debating with you guys and please, that you saw that in a website doesn't mean that's the fact. Someone is responsible for updating that website and that can be his opinion. And that statement might seem unambiguous but you never can tell except you talk with him. Maybe what he means is that Enuani has the most speakers which I don't believe. I've never lived in Ukwani but I understand it very well. Understanding Enuani doesn't mean understanding Igbo. Come on a fact finding mission to Anioma land verify these things. Stop believing everything you read online

Actually its the other way round.
You Ika/Anioma folks are sooooo persistent in your ignorance.
Its like a grand display of selective amnesia carried to ridiculous heights.
On one hand, you are descended from Bini "princes" and the "Bini empire", never mind that Bini just being a next door neighbour
should historically have made Ikas a colony, settlement or vassal of Bini but that was never historically the case.
On the other hand you have nothing in common with the people you love to call call Igbos or is it Igbon...
But the reality on ground presents undeniable facts that you guys persist to ignore or outrightly deny!
Is it a case of self hatred or inferiority complex? Have you forgotten public records of precolonial history by the British still exist?
Lemme give you examples of how Ikas/Aniomas persist in their ignorance.

For one, the Eze Chima story and lineages...
How some people's imagination came up with the attribution of a Bini prince who have no contact or nothing in common with kingless
and leaderless Igbos bearing an undiluted Igbo name...is simply amazing.
How you completely disregard his obvious Igbo name and the fact that the lineages attributed to him are ALL Igbo speaking communities and call each other "umu eze chima" is also amazing!
What happened to princely Bini names? Mind you by your own admission, the "Igbos" only started immigrating into Ika lands recently.
Even more telling is your admission that all your Ika clans were directly founded and peopled by "Bini princes".
So by your own admission, Igbos if at all found anywhere near Ika lands have always been an inconsequential minority.
So who were the powerful Igbos that changed Eze Chima's name from whatever Bini name he was bearing?
Do not bother with the Khime line cos even you guys know it is a fabrication.
And not only that, completely wiped out Bini language, tradition and culture from your midst...leaving you with clearly Bini styled monarchies?
Even then, not all Ika clans had kings, most of them were formed quite recently as records show.
So then, where did these conquering Igbos come from? And why are you guys speaking an Igbo dialect?

Next, are you not aware the most of all the paraphernalia of monarchy in ALL Anioma clans is borrowed from Bini?
Meaning, it was not native to the Anioma clans?
Keep in mind that Bini is just next door, you do not have to cross any foreign land or territory to enter Bini proper.
All clans, communities and parts of the Bini empire were appointed Enogies by the Oba and are ALL BINI speaking.
Your Onishes, Ologbosheres, Iyasheres etc are all corrupted version of the Bini originals...right next door to you.
From Oguta to Onicha to Agbor...these titles have no meanings in the Ika/Enuani,Ukwuani language you speak.
The only meaning is in the Edo tongue and we all know that.
So a corruption could not have happened if Ika was a part and parcel of the Bini empire.
The Ishans and all Edo dukedoms retained the original names, meanwhile a few miles down south, an Igbo speaking
peoples with Igbo days, practicing Igbo traditions adopted these Bini trappings of monarchy.
If it was not adopted, how do you explain a so called king bearing an Igbo name Nduka Ezeagwuna going to seek relevance or is it
permission to ascend the throne of his fathers? What happened to his Edo lineage or proper Edo name?
Are you not aware of the forceful imposition of Bini tongue on Ika speaking Igbanke people carved into Edo state?
How they are told to drop their...wait for it...Igbo names and language and speak Edo as they are in Edo state?
Are you not aware the Agbor and other Ika clans resisted Bini imperialism and fought wars to block Bini incursion into Ika lands?
If that is not enough evidence to show you that Ika was just influenced socio-culturally and politically by her more powerful neighbor,
then I guess you have a problem with facts.

Finally, the reoccurring decimal in all these claims and counter claims is deliberate display of ignorance on how language and kinship works.
Igbos till date have no kingdoms, armies or royal courts. It was purely made up of autonomous communities run on republican principles.
How did they penetrate and change your language and culture?
And no, your culture is majorly Igbo not Bini as some of you love to claim.
Whatever Bini festival or culture practiced in Ika can be shown to borrowed or adopted.
On one hand, Igbos were nonexistent in Ika lands and were recent migrants...on the other hand Ika language and traditions gave way
to a dominant Igbo presence/culture in Ika land! Make up your minds already!
The persistent confusion is so hilarious!

Summary, you have a SERIOUS IDENTITY CRISIS.From all indications, it is self imposed.
I wont even bother to remind you what transpired 1966-1970. How your Bini kith and kin connived with the Nigerian government to shield and protect you from the greedy and invading Igbo Biafrans. Or how Igbo army officers from the SE like Nzeogwu, Ifeajuna carried out a coup and roped in Anioma Bini people with Igbo sounding names like Onwuatuegwu, Anuforo etc.
For some reason, the Nigerian Army could not differentiate between the SE Igbos and descendants of Bini "princes" in Anioma.
Never mind that over 80% of your surnames are Edo...or is it Igbo?
Even with all your Ologbosheres, Onishes, Iyases and your adas and Bini beads and crowns...they just matched into Asaba after getting directions
from the Oba and invited grown men from Asaba and environs for a grand Nigerian rescue party.
Or was it genocide now? Remind me please? Did the Oba protest the killing of his kith and kin? Or his Enogies?
Na wa for the Nigerian Army, they must be so persistent in their ignorance. Right?

You and your people will have to start with telling yourselves the FACTS you have buried under the persistent ignorant stories you have passed
on to your children.

My 2 cents.

ehikwe22:

When I said mostly, does it in any suggest only Edo and no Igbo at all? If I should give percentage, all the surnames that aree 100 years old is about 50% Edo, 10% purely indigenous without Edo or Igbo influence, 20% Igbo, then we can share the rest with indigenous names fused With Igbo and Bini. But at times goes on, the Edo and Ika indigenous names are fading away. Even the Ika names that sound Igboid are being replaced with the SE version of that same name. This is just the reality of what's happening in Ika. Now you hear chi sounding names in Ika whereas there is no chi in our language

Cmon guys go easy on the barefaced lies
Here the name of your most prominent king
http://nigeriamonarchs.photoshelter.com/image/I0000ClFwpeMWeCE

...the Obi of Agbor is...wait for it...
His Royal Majesty Benjamin Ikenchuku Keagborekuzi the First (Keagborekuzi I).


Hopefully you will not be shameless enough to deny that Chuku(Ika dialect)=Chi Ukwu (SE Igbo dialect)
Question for you all revisionists...
How did chi get into your land, language and names?
Apparently according to you guys, Igbos started migrating enmass into Ika regions during the colonial periods or is it the 60s?
Or according to some who have starting backtracking...there was or is nothing Igbo in Ika land before the colonials came.
What is the chi doing in the name of your Obi or is it Dein now?
Who interpreted what chi meant to the descendants of Bini princes (abi no be so)?
Are you lots ignorant of how language works?

ehikwe22:
it didn't start in the last 21st century. Before these factors I mentioned, Igbos have been migrating enmass to Ika land but those factors also contributed. I'm Ika and I can tell you that an average Ika man can not speak Igbo. We find it difficult to understand central Igbo. Asking this question is like asking how Nigerians Muslims pray in Arabic or how Nigerian Catholics pray in Latin even when most of them can neither speak nor understand Arabic or Latin. They were thought and most of the prayers follow a particular pattern. I've been to these churches in Ika land and I know what I'm talking about. It's only when they find some words difficult to use in Igbo they put Ika. Some times, the prayers sound absurd because it ends up being neither Ika nor Igbo.

As for the surname, I said most. There's no way all our surnames can be Edo. We have very little percentage of Igbo surnames, some indigenous surnames which can be mixture of Igbo and Edo or Edo and and Ika to form one name. We also have majority of Edo surnames which dates back to 1000 to 700 years ago from Ika history. My reason for bringing in this surname thing is just refute your lies about Ika having Igbo names so that makes us Igbo.

You guys are very funny people. Before you guys quote my comment next time, try to understand what lead to the comment and stop quoting me out of context.

The problem with you guys is akin to the delusion of the African American slave who calls other dark skin folks "nigger" because he grew up
among a white majority. Funny thing is that he/she might have been brought up that way by his/her parents and told there are "real" differences
between them and the "other" black folks when infact...there is none.
For those of you who have imbibed the habit of attributing "Igbo" to "Igbon" to mean slavery or slave whatever,
your names, traditions and language sadly betrays you.
It will earn you no points at all, calling it a derogatory name, since the most famous "Igbo" slave (Olaudah Equiano) is from the so called Anioma/Ika lands.
Moreover, slavery was not unique to Igbos as even more detailed slavery cultures was practiced by the Binis, Yorubas and Hausa/Fulani etc.
This is not to mention the direct slave dealers like the Ijaws, Kalabaris and the Itshekiris etc.
They all had extensive slave based societies when infact the Igbos had none, bar the Arochukwu slave raids into the hinterlands.
So the hint is to get your facts right.

It it is clear you Ikas have been taught wrongly or have inherited a history that was based on inaccurate geneologies.
I will attempt to re iterate the points I have been arguing for since I picked interest in this topic.
Across the Niger is a diverse group and community of people speaking various dialects of what you call your "Ika" language.
This language is recognized by both the natives and the so called Ikas as the "Igbo" language.
The Igbos are bordered by Igallas, Idomas, Ekoi, Kalabaris, Annangs, Efiks, Ijaws etc.
None of these bordering ethnic groups have any notable or significant Igbo presence in their language, culture or tradition.
On the other hand, the so called Ikas/Aniomas of today have an overwhelmingly Igbo presence in their language, cultures and tradition.
With possible and provable migrations from the neighbouring Bini empire, the Igallas and the eastern Yorubas, the core of what is
Ika/Anioma has remained Igbo before, during and after the colonial periods.
These are provable facts.
As visible in other cultures, powerful kingdoms and empires influence lesser cultures socio-culturally and politically.
Hence you have Bini styled kingships in Anioma bearing fullblown Igbo names.
Nduka Ezeagwuna has no relationship to anything Bini or Yoruba or Igalla.
It is unapologetically Igbo and give to a son by an Igbo speaking father.
Why the father forgot royal, superior and more fantastic Bini names is clearly anyone's guess.
So, claims to Bini origin has not even began to erode the core Igbo root of what is called Anioma or Ika today.

In summary, its either all these Ika/Anioma revisionists are not aware that what they speak is just a dialect of the wider Igbo language spoken across the Niger,
or they are deliberately suffering from a serious case of selective amnesia.
For the records, what Ika/Anioma speaks as a language has been proven to be a dialect of the wider Igbo dialects spoken across the Niger.
Igbo presence and inheritance in Ika/Anioma was not as a result of colonization or immigration (funny some people shamelessly bring up that).

Now, you can claim any identity you want, but please stop twiddling with shared history.
It is distasteful and will only end up creating more confusion for you and your posterity.
For whatever reasons you guys have decided to draw away from the Igbo tag, it does not do away with the fact that the core of what is
called Ika/Anioma today is still most closely identified with your neighbours across the Niger.
And yes not even Bini that is contiguous with Ika/Anioma land..shares more in terms of language, tradition and culture than the SE Igbos.
And that is a fact.
Ofcourse as one poster noted...you are free to counter with facts and not "take it from me" statements.

ChinenyeN:


You're discussing something other than what I am talking about. I'm not talking about the ethnic identity itself. I'm talking about the historical context surrounding it, and why it makes no sense for people to continue talking about some phantom "Igboness" defined outside of that historical context. The historical context is not only linguistics, but linguistics is the first and foremost contributing factor to that context.

PabloAfricanus, you are correct. The topic has been overflogged, hence my "Odo nunu?" statement at the beginning. To address your comment though, you are adding in words that I did not say. I stated specifically that Igbo is first and foremost a linguistic classification and the ethnic identity is after the fact. I did not call it secondary. The discussion of an "Igbo ethnic identity" is ultimately only one item in the entire historical context that we are now referring to as "Igbo". Dwelling on that specific item is beyond the scope of my particular post. The point of my post is to emphasize yet again just how much people clearly do not know about what "Igbo" truly is.

@Topic: As it is now, this topic will eventually get to the point where people will have to come to terms with the fact that either no one is Igbo or everyone who speaks Igbo is Igbo. Anything in between is arbitrary and neglects the historical context that created what we now call "Igbo people".

Semantics appear to be getting in the way, clearly if Fact B follows Fact A, then logically Fact B is secondary to and somehow dependent on Fact A..

That is where I beg to differ.
The most visible unit of societal cum political organization in "Igbo" land is clans.
Some of these clans have various ancestries and origins, as expected of people who have experienced migration over the centuries.
Ethnic identifiers wordwide are generally linked to some identifiable feature of the land, the people themselves, some deity, some
religious or cultural belief or language etc.
In this case, the most common name known to history among the Igbo speaking peoples is the very name of the language itself.
It is what the Igbo peoples called themselves. It was not picked from just one clan or one prominent Igbo community.
Heck, even the so-called Bini migrants in Onitsha and Oguta, right in the heart of core Igbo clans called their neighbours, whom they spoke the same language and practiced the same customs onye Igbo, till today.

My point is that the word "Igbo" among the Igbo speaking peoples is not recent or contemporary with colonial history.
If it were, then it will be acceptable to say that the name "Igbo" is just a linguistic classifier used to group together unrelated peoples
who spoke different versions of the same "Igbo" language.
I am arguing that interpretation in itself is erroneous and obscures the fact ethnic groups while related still retain the peculiarity of unique languages.

Igbo for all I can see appears to be the most visible appellation by which these peoples identified themselves.
While most clans identified themselves by their clans names and communities, the language and general name by which they called themselves
all over was "Igbo". And it was not just them, their neighbours too called them by that name "Igbo".
And all this was precolonial.
And I gave you instances of communities and surnames prefixed and suffixed by that name to buttress my point.
If you factor in the fact that Igbo dialects are as diverse as they are sometimes mutually unintelligible to otherwise Igbo clans,
don't you think that linguistic classification in this case, appears to be secondary to general Igbo ethnic identity?.

Probz:


It's no worse than lumping two quite disparate groups under the overarching term of a tribe they're only somehow related to inguistically.

Igala and Itsekiri people speak a Yoruboid language but no one calls them Yoruba. I'm aware Igbo has greater linguistic diversity and there's more Igboid than Yoruboid languages. It doesn't mean that the Igboid-speaking communities are Igbo.

Are you trying to say way before the colonial masters came, some people who ARE NOT Igbos
suddenly started speaking Igbo in an era of closely knit communities, clans and kingdoms.
Never mind that the Igbos have no historical record of kingdoms, conquests or invasions of other people's land?
In other words, "Igboid"-speaking communities and their practice of "Igbo" tradition and customs is not as a result of contact/interaction/kinship with other "Igbo" clans or groups...but the explanation should be looked for elsewhere, right?
Maybe attribute it to trading or some other reason like close boundaries and the like, but never kinship.


Presumably this makes less sense to you than lumping together 2 neighbouring peoples or communities who do NOT speak each others languages,
do NOT practice the same culture and do NOT have the same deities right?
Or as some others have argued in the past, groups and clans who speak the same language and practice the same customs/traditions DO NOT NECESSARILY have to be related, but groups who do NOT are actually infact related, even when there is no evidence, right?
Never mind that historical records of migration, cultural affiliations and long standing traditions IN ADDITION TO LANGUAGE are universally recognized as markers of ethnic origins.

Apparently, way back then, language was so fluid and easy to learn that they had language schools and academies where Binis, Itshekiris, Hausas, Nupes, Igbos, Tivs, Yorubas and Fulanis folks send their kids to go learn each other's language right?
You know, for some obscure reason scientists are yet to unravel, after those precolonial people's have attended these ancient language academies, they went back to their ancestral lands and promptly forgot their native tongues, customs and traditions...

Hilarious don't you think?
Or did I misinterpret your point?