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Culture / Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:11pm On Feb 27, 2017 |
RedboneSmith: In ur opinion his assertion makes less sense to you than that of the bombastic revisionist he was responding to right? |
Culture / Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:09pm On Feb 27, 2017 |
Cire80: I thought I was discussing with sensible and right thinking people Dunno where to start. This is what you call bombastic silliness...scratch that...this tripe above is legendary silliness. Someone sat down and typed this out and presented it with confidence as "facts" Smh. |
Culture / Re: Esan People Are Not Igbo! by PabloAfricanus(m): 7:27am On Feb 27, 2017 |
Monkeydeychop: Lol. You are clearly taking artificial state boundaries to be equivalent to precolonial ethnic boundaries... Or you are just uninformed on how migration works. If your wish comes true, the artificial boundaries would only be readjusted to what it was before the formation of "Edo" state. As to your last statement, cmon now There were Igbo, Yoruba, igalla people in the ancient Bini empire. Are you not aware Agho Obaseki's lineage is from Asaba? Bini like all other conquering monarchies absorbed neighbouring tribes and ethnic groups. That was not a bad thing. 5 Likes |
Culture / Re: Esan People Are Not Igbo! by PabloAfricanus(m): 6:34am On Feb 27, 2017 |
bigfrancis21: No they can't, have never and will never be able to. If the criteria for survival during the civil war in Ika land was for one to speak Edo or recite the lists of say the last 20 Oba's of Bini, or even give the the official greetings of any random quarters in the Edo royal family... You and I both know the Ikas would have been wiped out, as these self acclaimed descendants of Bini "princes" would never have been able to deliver. The much to be commended silence or rather complete ignoring by the Edo's...is what has given them and their cousins the room to weave historical fabrications without fear of corrections or public shaming. But then, I think the Igbos should be very wary of these people. A people who can deny themselves and their ancestry with a straight face and with so much shamelessness do not deserve to be taken as kith and kin. Their inferiority complex will play out sooner or later in either sabotage or gross discrimination. 4 Likes |
Culture / Re: Esan People Are Not Igbo! by PabloAfricanus(m): 6:24am On Feb 27, 2017 |
Monkeydeychop: I sort of disagree with the settling part, a lot of unrelated groups and tribes were inadvertently carved into "states" when the military boys were doing their thing. The Igbankes and Ekpons are good examples. They did not MIGRATE nor SETTLE into where they now live, they have always been there. If history is anything to go by, it was the Bini empire that expanded into and settled into most of the area they now claim as territory. However, your corrections of very popular historical views among the Aniomas would have been a small thing if it was a completely Anioma phenomenon. You need to listen to the Onichas, Ogutas and Ogbarus who have taken Bini cultural influence to another level of interpretation. How these people managed to convince themselves they are descendants of next door Bini is the most hilarious tripe I've heard in a long time. I won't even bother with the Ikwerres and their Akalaka was a Bini prince lullaby. Kudos to the Bini's for not flipping and taking all these bogus claims and counter claims to Bini origin calmly and without giving any room for rancour or outrage. Now that is class and royalty. The Igbos I know would have turned the whole affair into a free for all rofo rofo mudslinging fight 2 Likes |
Culture / Re: Esan People Are Not Igbo! by PabloAfricanus(m): 11:12pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Cire80: Cmon dude where is your sense of humor now I have been asking a very simple question all these while... How did the Obi of Issele Ukwu came to bear the name Nduka Ezeagwuna? And are the names of your kings overwhelmingly Igbo? Mind you, I have no point to prove here and I'm also no claiming anything as you guys wrongly assume... Take it that you are educating someone seeking for answers... Just calmly explain to me, in light of all the history and story you and others have been telling about Ikas... how and how not you are related to Binis and Igbos... How did the Obi of Issele Ukwu came to bear the name Nduka Ezeagwuna? PS: If you have not figured out that story about Igbonization and trading is a joke, I'd advise you should not bother replying me. 5 Likes |
Culture / Re: Esan People Are Not Igbo! by PabloAfricanus(m): 5:31pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Cire80:Come on dude, You can see how ignorant he is Just imagine his confusion at seeing that Iselle Ukwu king in Edo royal attire and standing before the Oba, he must have been feeling all warm and cozy at seeing such a warm, original display of Edo history, only to read his name as Nduka Ezeagwuna Dude would prolly be like WTF? I was too, when some friends from Anioma sold me the Edo but Igbo speaking bit, I too was like WTF I dug in as an amateur historian and all I could see was...you guess what? Don't worry, you can help cure his ignorance here. PS:http://www.royaldiary.com.ng is not an Igbo site as you predictably thought. Its an Ika site You could point him there to read the finer points of Edo history in Anioma. 4 Likes |
Culture / Re: Esan People Are Not Igbo! by PabloAfricanus(m): 4:52pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Monkeydeychop: Op some of your migrant Edo princes appear to have an identity crisis... from telling you everything about them screams Edo, to telling how they are Edo internally but Igbo on the surface, to claiming non-Edo, its tiring really They even suspect any "Edo" website that does not recognize they are Igbo speaking descendants of Edo princes Maybe you can help out and assist them in sorting out their history...do it as a service to those great Edo princes who lost it to Igbo traders Hear this one... Cire80: 6 Likes |
Culture / Re: Esan People Are Not Igbo! by PabloAfricanus(m): 4:45pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Monkeydeychop: Op you sound ignorant of your own history, some of your princes were so much in love with Igbo goods, that after buying whatever it was that they bought from the Igbos, they forgot they were Edo princes who just happened to be trading with Igbos Never mind that they have never had an Edo dialect from time immemorial ...it's due to the awesome power of Igbo trading! Not to worry, if u dig deep enough and you are "honest", you will discover Ika/Anioma is only Igbo on the surface, but Edo within Hear it from one of your long lost descendants of "Edo princes" Cire80: 6 Likes 1 Share |
Culture / Re: Esan People Are Not Igbo! by PabloAfricanus(m): 4:38pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Monkeydeychop: @Monkeydeychop You apparently do not know how awesome and powerful the Igbos are... they are the only people in the world that can make you forget your language, origin and culture through trading... some of your brothers and princes somehow got Igbonized through trading and forgot their Edo origins... the Igbonization is what led them to start bearing names like Nkechi and Chinenye... I can feel your pain, imagine an Edo king from Issele Ukwu bearing Nduka Ezeagwuna You see why the Igbos are awesome and powerful, if not devious? So Op sorry, because unfortunately for you.... Cire80: 6 Likes |
Culture / Re: Esan People Are Not Igbo! by PabloAfricanus(m): 4:32pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
@Monkeydeychop Op really?? What do you mean now? This guy here disagrees vehemently with you Cire80: |
Culture / Re: Are Urhobos And Isoko And Ika Also Edo? by PabloAfricanus(m): 4:27pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Cire80: Wow Igbos must be so powerful! And here I was thinking they are the ones leading the pack of political cluelessness in the country You mean Igbos were able to come over to your "land", displace your Edoid kings and princes, after displacing them, these Igbos went ahead to rename your kings, male and female names you give to your newborns, market days, names of commodities, names of towns and villages...to the point that they have replaced your mighty ancient language.... with and Igbo dialect Oh dear! How come these conquering Igbos did not conquer the Hausas, Fulanis, Yorubas? Or even their Igalla, Idoma, Ibibio, Ijaw and Efik neighbours? Why only Ikas/Aniomas? I am thinking the Igbos have always been biased and envious of Ika greatness and powerfulness Right? 4 Likes |
Culture / Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by PabloAfricanus(m): 12:14am On Feb 24, 2017 |
Abagworo: The question for me though, is how did they come about speaking an Igbo dialect, bearing Igbo names, having undeniable Igbo culture? You know for a self acclaimed Bini people? Who don't even speak Edo? Who have always had Bini right next door since precolonial times? How come? You sound familiar with the matter. Are you buying into the hilarious we are Bini but Igbo speaking tripe? Care to share? 1 Like |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 12:25pm On Feb 07, 2017 |
Cire80: Lol You guys are still on I see. How you all cleverly avoided explaining how Nduka Ezeagwuna came to be the name of a king in Ika land is still d topic...just Incase... Also, this talk of ascribing Igbo meanings to words that are already Igbo betrays your ignorance of the topic under discussion. Like I mentioned in previous threads...you lots need to travel further to the east and find out really what you ACTUALLY share. Your denials will only end up making you look funnier than the Onichas in Anambra when they were confronted with the fact...that there were more Onichas in the Igbo hinterlands...than Onicha Mmili and Onicha Ugbo. So which came first? The Eze in Ika or the Eze in SE Igbo land? Or the Umu Eze Chima's Onicha came before the many more Onichas around? Apparently, inherited ignorance and an inherited attitude towards all things Igbo will make a man bearing Emeka Esogbue...in a country sharply divided along ethnic lines..deny the Igboness of his name...and the language he speaks...while affirming another identity of a people right next door...who do not speak his language or bear the same name as him. Point is...you Ikas and Aniomas have a boatload of history to set right. 1 Like |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 11:44am On Jan 20, 2017 |
ehikwe22: You my friend, like the rest of you fabricators of history, are simply living in denial. And no, you don't even know if I'm Igbo, I am here because I am interested in Nigerian history. If you visit other Hausa and Yoruba threads you will probably find my posts there. I just find this whole Ikwerre, Anioma "Igbo" denial thing curious and uncalled for. It has been pointed out to you severally, that there is no need for any "Igbo" denial or acceptance, it is simply a futile exercise. You can and should be anything you want, no one really cares. But in your quest for "identity", "glory" or whatever, historical accuracy is paramount cos you and your people are NOT the only ones in the picture. Other people who might or might not share ancestry with you are involved. For example, there is no way you can talk about the presidency of Nigeria without including Fulani dominance or discuss the Nigerian military without including Hausa/Fulani dominance. These are HISTORICAL FACTS. A few hundred years from now, Tiv people who are yet to produce a President or COAS cannot start rewriting the history of Nigerian Presidency or military high command to SUIT THEIR INTERESTS. Hope you get the point. Let me summarize for you. The slogan on that Ika site reads Ali Ika Wu Ali Eze That my friend is Igbo language, to be more specific, Southern/Owerre Igbo dialect. It is not Edo, Urhobo, Ijaw,Igalla or Yoruba language. The Edos do not speak that language neither do any of Ikas surrounding neighbours. ONLY the Igbos speak that language or can understand what statement means, it has no meaning in ANY other language. The names of your market days are Afor,Orie, Eken and Nkwor Those are not Edo, Urhobo, Ijaw,Igalla or Yoruba market day. Those names and market days ARE EXCLUSIVE TO Igbo people. Your marriage rites include items such as these, http://www.royaldiary.com.ng/royal-diaries/ika-royal-diary/151-ika-traditional-marriage-requirements-standardization-and-formalisation i. Egho ikoro (Money for the male youths/age group) ₦100 The names of those items up there are NOT Edo, Igalla or Yoruba names, those are marriage item lists in an Igbo dialect and only has meaning in the Igbo tongue. Only Igbo people have marriage lists with those names. Here are some of the names of your "royal fathers"
You will not find those names among the Ishans, Urhobos, Ijaws,Binis, Igallas or Yorubas. Ikechukwu,Chukwuka, Chukwuma, Odili,Jekeme, Chukwuyerieze, Alekwe, Uche are names EXCLUSIVE to Igbos. You can see and count for yourself...ALL Igbo names with smatterings of Edo names like Osagie and Efeizomor etc, which is to be expected seeing that historically, there have been Edo migrants and "princes" who settled and helped set up some of these "monarchies" in an otherwise gerontocratic community with no practice of monarchy. Yes, history records that most of these "kingdoms" and "kings" are recent. Now the question is, do the presence of these Edo settlers and refugees now mean that the people they met on ground are NOW Edos? Or did the survival of Igbo language and cultural practice point to the fact that the NATIVES were Igbo speaking people from day one? To insinuate that such names were adopted after saying that Ikas hold Igbos in contempt and openly have a derogatory name "Igbons" for Igbo people...only highlights the level of your dishonesty and self deceit. Why did the Ogonis, Ibibios, Efiks, Annangs, Ekoi, Igallas and Idomas also adopt "Igbo" names? Why ONLY Ikas/Aniomas? Are you implying the Igbos invaded and conquered Ikas? Or the proud "Bini" culture and language of Ikas gave way to the inferior "Igbon" culture and language of Igbos...whom you love to hate? Go to Abia, Ebonyi and Enugu, there are full blooded Igbo people bearing Ibibio names such as Inyang, Igalla names like Achadu, Attah etc. There was and still is an ongoing process of inter ethnic mixture,marriage and cultural exchanges. The fact that there are people bearing Edo names in Ika land is living proof of Edo mixture and cultural influence. That is not a bad thing and is only following the course of history. IT IS TO BE EXPECTED as no ethnic group is 100% pure. But is that proof of Edo origin or proof that the over 90% of Ikas who bear Igbo their NATIVE Igbo names are now Edos or only starting "adopting" Igbo names? Also stop with that "Igbon" nonsense...that is simply the ways Ikas pronounce Igbo words, just like the ways Owerri people, Awka people pronounce Igbo words....hence a dialect. For example, in Ika dialect, Ikechukwu becomes Ikenchukwu, Okpara becomes Okparan, Igbo becomes Igbon etc It is just an example of Ika and Anioma bigotry to regard "Igbon" as a derogatory name, just the same way Onitsha and their Oguta and Ogbaru cousins call other Igbo people "onye Igbo" like its meant to be an insult. You all conveniently forget, that "Igbo" is the name these "Igbo" people have always called themselves. Their names and towns all have "Igbo" in it, IgboUzor (Ibusa), Igbokwe, AmaIgbo, Igboezue, Obigbo etc. So the joke is on you actually. So you see, based on these evidences, it is clear that Ikas speak an Igbo dialect, practice Igbo culture and tradition,adopted Edo style monarchies and till today have more in common with other Igbo speaking peoples than their Edo,Ishan, Igalla, Urhobo, Itshekiri and Ijaw neighbours. Those are the facts I and others have been trying to point out to you guys. And this Igbo presence in Ika was not as a result of invasion, colonization, trading or Christian evangelization like you guys are trying to portray it, neither was it recent. That would be rewriting history...which is why I am here to call you guys to order. Ofcourse I expect you to dismiss all these evidences and go on repeating the same nonsense... 4 Likes 1 Share |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 12:09am On Jan 20, 2017 |
ehikwe22: You are either being silly or just trying too hard. Was expecting you to call him an Igbo man trying to steal your wonderful Bini heritage The above actually applies to you...not the other way round. You prefer him embellishing and concurring with your inherited historical lies and fabrications Are you AWARE Bini people know who you Ika/Anioma folks are and your historical background? I mean with the flagrant disregard for history you and your people have consistently shown, why are you still holding on to Igbo dialects, Igbo customs and anything Igbo when Bini is just your next door neighbour? You deny and dismiss any evidence or talk that goes against your packaged historical improvisations? Ok, I get it...you folks not only suffer from a deep identity crisis, you also hate anything that your ancestors were or stood for. Sad, really sad. Just tell the world, how the Obi of Agbor and all your Obis started bearing Igbo names...leave the dialect part, market day part and all other visible parts of Igbo culture you practice. Just tell us how the hated Igbos began hawking Igbo names and market days to your "Bini" ancestors in the 20th century To get you started, hear is a list of your Ika market days http://www.royaldiary.com.ng/royal-diaries/ika-royal-diary/152-major-markets-in-ika-nation and here is a list of your your Ika royal fathers http://www.royaldiary.com.ng/royal-diaries/ika-royal-diary/149-royal-fathers-of-ika-nation I leave it to you to present their names and the names of their "kingdoms". Geez all descendants of "Bini" princes wearing Bini royal vestments...but bearing Igbo names and what not. Let's blame it on the Igbos. Go through the site and except you are blind to facts, tell me why the Igbo element is so DOMINANT despite all the "comings" from Bini stories and the "foundings" by Bini refugees. Also the Bini refugees met empty land and produced generations of people who bought Igbo language, market days and names from the far flung "Igbons". Were the Igbos also hawking Igbon names and market days back then? This una history e be as e get sha And wait, the slogan says Ali Ika Wu Ali Eze. O me lord! Don't you love your Edo language! What happened to Oba, Enogie etc I know, its those Igbons again! They smuggled so many Igbo words(in their trading canoes) across the River Niger into the pure Ika Bini language in the 20th century. I think I finally get it...its the fault of the Igbons right? 2 Likes |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 2:32am On Jan 16, 2017 |
hammerF: You are funny. Should have guessed from your contributions so far. No need to engage you further. |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 2:21am On Jan 16, 2017 |
hammerF: It's either you have a comprehension problem or you are simply confused. I'm aware Igbo is spoken in Rivers and Delta states...that's the whole point of this thread anyway. Is that the point you were trying to make? You want to add Ikwerre and other Igbo speaking lands as evidence of what? Clearly state it... Edo consisting of 1 million groups has no bearing on the "facts" you came up with. Bini's driving out Igbos and joining with Yorubas to create the Bini language Where did you pick that from? And your replies just keep getting off point... Provide proof for your facts"...that's the challenge I posed to you. Or you can just run away and claim superior knowledge only available to you. |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 2:05am On Jan 16, 2017 |
hammerF: Sigh This what you posted as FACTS hammerF: And I challenged you on this hammerF: I did not even bother to address your other "facts" cos apparently you have little knowledge of the subject matter. I asked you FIRST to provide PROOF or evidence that the Igbos were the first to settle in Bini...which ofcourse you only came up with more arguments and skipped. I then showed you that there is no way the what you posted as FACT could be true because: 1) The contrasting social,cultural and political backgrounds of Binis and Igbos does not support your argument. If it did, the two cultures would have rubbed off each other. Or oral evidence would have survived to buttress that fact. Cue the Romans and Gauls, the Fulanis and the Habes, Fulanis and surrounding tribes in Adamawa etc. The implication of your posted "FACTS" would mean that they were sister cultures, when infact nothing like that existed. The Binis had highly organized political systems, organized armies, carried out military campaigns,urban centres, diplomatic relations with foreign kings, were empire builders. The Igbos on the other hand, had nothing in terms of politics, military and empire to what the Bini empire was. I hope that concept is not too abstract for you to wrap your head around. 2) The landmass occupied by Bini speaking people way before the colonials came shows that the Igbos were not even in the picture. And the Binis have no oral history of coming from anywhere else or driving out aborigines from Bini land proper. And even after Nigeria had been formed and the old kingdoms carved up, present Edo state still occupies a larger land mass than all the SE Igbo states combined. All the conquered territories by the Bini empire did not include any of the Igbo lands today as we know it. The closest Bini got to Igbo speaking lands was the Aniocha/Ika lands and my argument in this thread is that those people were and have always been Igbos, albeit influenced and mixed with Bini. If you have any oral or documented history of the Bini empire conquering Igbo aborigines and driving them out from their lands...please share. Until then, the lands the Bini empire conquered and occupied had NOTHING to do with Igbo lands as we know it. Are you also uncomfortable with facts? 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 12:45am On Jan 16, 2017 |
hammerF: Here is another historical chip for you, from here http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z3n7mp3 Around 1440, Ewuare became the new Oba of Benin. He built up an army and started winning land. He also rebuilt Benin City and the royal palace. Besides the fact that present day Edo state is bigger than all the SE Igbo states combined with extra space left, the Bini Empire in its heyday extended west as far as present-day Ghana. I wont bother to contrast the state of development of present Igbo land then as compared to Bini during the time of Oba Orhogbua. Or the knowledge of geography, settlements along the West African coast, far flung conquests carried out etc...when the Igbos were still living in closely knit village units and had no concept of kings or armies. Now before you go rambling offpoint again, who is the myopic and ignorant one now? Get your facts right before you go arguing on topics you know nothing about. 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 12:07am On Jan 16, 2017 |
hammerF: Ignorance is what is challenging most Africans, coupled with lack of a reading or research culture. I will be brief. These are the areas in square kilometres (km²) covered by each of the SE Igbo states. Imo 5,530 km² Abia 6,320 km² Enugu 7,161 km² Anambra 4,844 km² Ebonyi 5,533 km² TOTAL AREA oF ALL SE IGBO STATES=17,535 km2 Now compare that to the area covered by today's Edo state Edo 17,802 km² I used Wikipedia as a quick source, I did not bother to check the official sources, you are free to counter figures above anyway. Mind you that this is Edo after the British had made the Oba renounce claims to most of his nearby and far flung territories. Being an Igbo man, I doubt if the concept of conquest and territory would make sense to you, cos its not a concept most Igbo people identify with or make sense of. So I wont bother to list the territories Bini controlled before the British deposed Oba Ovamranwen. Did the Igbos have any territory that the British took away? I leave it to you to do the math and imagine the size of Bini land proper, territories in today's Ekiti, Ondo, Lagos and all the way down South to Urhobo and Itshekiri lands. So who is the myopic and ignorant one here now? 1 Like 1 Share |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:52pm On Jan 15, 2017 |
hammerF: Now you are looking for trouble How do you mean and where did you get that information from? Any research done to come up with that conclusion...care to share? Please be careful in your statements, Bini in its prime was larger than the area occupied by the present day Igbo speaking states. Moreover, the stark contrast in social life, culture and political systems between the Edos and the Igbos makes your statement sound very very very ignorant. Please desist from making ignorant statements like this that will only engender distrust and hatred. If you do not have the facts to back up your "facts"...then keep it to yourself. Thanks. 3 Likes |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:47pm On Jan 15, 2017 |
laudate: Dude, be a man and stop cheer leading 2 Likes |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:46pm On Jan 15, 2017 |
gerg:@Redbonesmith @Cire80 That's petty and cowardly. It appears you guys are finally getting a dose of the medicine you been serving out for decades. When you bear names like Nwachukwu, Nduka, Chime, Ikenchuku, Chude etc and turn around and call other people bearing the same names "Igbo" or "Igbon"...and vehemently deny any kinship or relationship with them...you have invited confusion into your midst. It is what it is. You are yet to tell the world what happened to your Bini names and language. Its a nameless forum and lots of people are going to be reading, you can join the discussion and post better information where you think the facts have been misrepresented. I have personally voiced my opinions, same as others...you are free to counter as you wish. No one is claiming any ancestral land or any people. It just beats the imagination the scenario you guys are trying to paint. How a "king" named Nduka Ezeagwuna has no relationship with anything Igbo but is actually Bini is a sad case of the dishonesty and penchant for historical inferiority complex that is common to your people. It is only natural that an Igbo person will take notice and ask questions. So far the answers have not been forthcoming or have been made out of ignorance. It is confusing scenarios like the ones you and your people have perpetuated that led to so many innocent lives being lost in the past. Imagine Bini "princes" being mistaken for "Igbon" slaves...huh? Bad I must say...too bad. Imagine if you guys had continued speaking your Edo language and bearing Edo names instead of "Igbon" names? It worked out disastrously for everyone involved in the past, who knows what the future will unfold? Start now and clarify with intelligent and historically correct answers... The facts of the matter are just being pointed out to you...and as expected you have no rejoinders. Or do you? 3 Likes |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 2:32am On Jan 15, 2017 |
laudate: Sorry but do you ever have an opinion of your own? I appreciate your wanting to contribute but do so intelligently. I could be completely wrong in all the points I raised and I am very aware of that. But I notice you are either cheer leading or side quoting and never for ONCE contributing any original thought, opinion, narrative or perspective to any Igbo themed thread. Can we hear your own narrative? We are all here to learn you know. 2 Likes |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 2:28am On Jan 15, 2017 |
Ngozi123: Personally I have a problem with that statement and I will tell you why. I could be wrong tho and I freely admit it. When you say migrated from Bini empire...several assumptions are implied. 1) The fugitives who ran for their lives from whatever area of the Bini kingdom they resided were pure Bini people. 2) These Bini people apparently were NOT Igbo people and hence had to use an interpreter to communicate with any Igbo people they encountered on their outward flight 3) How these fugitives managed to bypass Agbor and the present Aniocha lands without meeting with Igbo speaking peoples but Bini people all the way is yet to be explained...when you consider the fact they came bearing Igbo names. 4) Its either all the places they got to and settled where settled by non-Bini natives or were bare empty lands...when you consider all the stories of foundings by Bini "princes" who promptly forgot their language in the shadow of Bini just across the border. 5) By their own claims and counter claims, they had nothing to do with Igbos and only encountered them in passing Why then is the overwhelming presence of Igbo language,deities, market days and culture the MOST significant trait among these descendants of Bini "princes"? Like all you see is Bini styled political hiearchies among an overwhelmingly Igbo community. You see, its either some people are trying to so hard to deny an Igbo presence way back in the old Bini kingdom or the Bini kingdom back then was surrounded to the south by native Igbo peoples. I think there were Igbo people in the old Bini kingdom and they were the ancestors of the present Anioma peoples today. Come to think about it, once you leave Bini and move down south, all you meet is communities of people speaking various Igbo dialects, from Agbor to Asaba to Ukwuani/Aboh. Cos there was no way a Bini "prince" could have established a pattern of settlements DIFFERENT from what other known Bini fugitive or non-fugitive princes have established. The examples of Ginuwa in Itshekiri and Asikpa in Eko come to mind. Not to mention the numerous Bini suzerainties in Ekiti and Ondo today who have acclimatized to the dominant Yoruba culture. But trace back and you will find the Bini thread linking back to old kingdom without controversy. These people do not deny their Itshekiri or Awori roots, they gladly point out that their monarchies came from Bini. They merely adopted the system brought by the Bini visitors and acclimatized them to their native language and culture. Why is the Anioma case different? I do not think it is that easy for Bini "princes" to come out running from Bini speaking Igbo and bearing Igbo names. No my dear, it is highly implausible. Why did they have to cross the Niger? Why not go further south or further West? Are you aware that they even journeyed farther into the Igbo hinterlands of Oguta? Going by all the published works of Onicha/Anioma origins, these fugitives should NOT be Igbo speaking, but speaking at worst a corrupted Edo tongue and practicing at worst hybrized forms of Edo traditions. You and I know this is NOT the case. What you have is a case of a group of migrants who were Igbo speaking from day one. And what you have in their midst is clear evidences of an Igbo speaking people who were socio-culturally and politically influenced by Bini. And yes, the superiority thing is actually a form of inferiority complex. No one invaded them or forced them to differentiate themselves from the "inferior" ndi Igbos. They are the ones doing the attaching and detaching, as by all accounts, the people they call "onye Igbo" never copied them or their Bini style monarchies or Bini style political hierarchies. You wont see any vestige of their much acclaimed Bini language, culture or what not among the hinterland Igbos. So there is no chance of corruption of their core "Edo" language or culture by the hinterland Igbos. It was the Bini fugitives who copied, adopted and appropriated everything Igbo. Is that not the reality? It is so glaring that the Bini titles were borrowed when you consider the titles or "afa etutu" of Onicha titled men. Iyase, Odua,Onowu, Owelle title holders etc all have Igbo proper prefixes like Nnanyelugo, Akunne etc. Monarchy in Igbo land is a British phenomenon like you know and had the British not intervened, its more than likely the Igbo clans would have continued in their decentralized system that has been working for them. Infact it is on record that the early warrant chiefs created by the British who transitioned into "kings" paid Onicha chiefs to tutor them on kingship rituals and ceremony. Prior to then, the cultural dominance was Igbo through and through...and it was not forced or taught. It was native. Bini influences and exposure to Bini style monarchies marked the difference btw the Igbo speaking peoples across the Niger along with their Onicha, Ogbaru and Oguta cousins...and the hinterland Igbos. In summary, I think all available evidence point to the fact the people who fled Bini (methinks its actually Bini environs) and moved from Agbor all the way down to Oguta were native Igbo people. Not Edo and have never been Edo till date. The names they still bear, their market days, deities, cultural practices...all point to this fact. Ofcourse, I would love to see contrary evidence. I have been scouting for it. 1 Like |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 1:13am On Jan 15, 2017 |
Ngozi123: Yeah I know. I had an encounter with an inlaw from one of the Anioma clans that spurred me to investigate this phenomenon of Igbo speaking "Bini" princes and their descendants. It was a discovery of self inflicted amnesia, outright historical fabrications and gross ignorance...not to mention extreme bigotry. The Onicha case was saddening really. You see grown, learned men embellishing stories that cannot stand the slightest historical scrutiny. Aspirants to the Obi throne required to recite the geneology of their Bini fugitive ancestor whose name happens to be Eze Chima. Ask them why Eze Chima and they dodge and dodge with more funny stories. And the funniest thing is they love the Igbo language and cultures they sooo love to hate! Self confessed fugitives and settlers from their beloved Bini, who ran for their dear lives to Igbo lands doing all they can to glorify the people who ejected them and denigrating the people who received them and allowed them flourish in their midst. The favourite past time of Onicha titled men appears to be accusing each other of being "onye Igbo" or making jests of "nwa onye igbo". All in pristine Igbo language ofcourse...infact it appears the purest form of Anambra Igbo dialect is around the Idemili-Onicha-Awka cluster. Sometimes I wonder why the Igbos themselves tolerate these people who so love to put them down without remorse. |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 12:47am On Jan 15, 2017 |
Cire80: Dude do yourself a favour and quit with the historical lies. Annangs, Ibibios, Ijaws all border Igbo lands and have HEAVILY inter-married with SE Igbos...yet none of them have lost any of their language or culture to Igbos. Neither is there any controversy over them "recently" having adopted Igbo names or what not. It is quite shameless indeed the way you lots are going about this. Lots of people in Owa, Agbor and other Ika communities have ALWAYS and STILL do have surnames and first names with "chi","chuku" suffixes and prefixes. You cannot claim ignorance of that fact. To make your postulations even sillier, the outright denials by Ikas should have culminated in the total erasure of anything remotely "Igbo" in your names and titles. Lo and behold, the name of Gov Okowa's father is Mr. Arthur Okorie Okowa who recently celebrated his 83rd birthday. Going back 83 years ago means going back to a time before Nigeria gained her independence. Out of all the 80% Edo names available in Ika, he picked a core Igbo name for his son? So are you saying Gov Okowa's grandfather was an Igbo immigrant in Owa (following you people's assertion)? Or by that time, the Igbo dominance was so strong that the Ikas out of fear of the Igbos started adopting Igbo names like it was going out of fashion? Or the CBN governor whose name is Ifeanyichuku Emefiele. I could go on and on. Are Edo names that scarce in Ika land? Or is it the pesky Igbos again smuggling Igbo names across the border? Why is that you had to go back to investigate "Igbo" names for further clarification? Are the names fake or not real? Maybe they are NOT supposed to be Igbo names? Gross ignorance or selective amnesia again of your Igbo heritage...its a recurring feature among you Ika folks. All the Umu Eze Chima clans have been calling the name of their progenitor Eze Chima from time immemorial. Do you know something they do not, I mean why you have to come up with Ikhime, Khime or even Cheime? Have you reached out to them to correct the error and revert to the "correct" Edo form of "Khime" yet? You guys should get a grip and quit making yourselves look silly. We get it, you hate Igbos and don't want to have anything to do with them. That's allowed, but don't go messing around with history. You will hurt yourself and your posterity...that's besides making complete fools of yourselves. 3 Likes |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 8:32pm On Jan 14, 2017 |
ehikwe22: Actually its the other way round. You Ika/Anioma folks are sooooo persistent in your ignorance. Its like a grand display of selective amnesia carried to ridiculous heights. On one hand, you are descended from Bini "princes" and the "Bini empire", never mind that Bini just being a next door neighbour should historically have made Ikas a colony, settlement or vassal of Bini but that was never historically the case. On the other hand you have nothing in common with the people you love to call call Igbos or is it Igbon... But the reality on ground presents undeniable facts that you guys persist to ignore or outrightly deny! Is it a case of self hatred or inferiority complex? Have you forgotten public records of precolonial history by the British still exist? Lemme give you examples of how Ikas/Aniomas persist in their ignorance. For one, the Eze Chima story and lineages... How some people's imagination came up with the attribution of a Bini prince who have no contact or nothing in common with kingless and leaderless Igbos bearing an undiluted Igbo name...is simply amazing. How you completely disregard his obvious Igbo name and the fact that the lineages attributed to him are ALL Igbo speaking communities and call each other "umu eze chima" is also amazing! What happened to princely Bini names? Mind you by your own admission, the "Igbos" only started immigrating into Ika lands recently. Even more telling is your admission that all your Ika clans were directly founded and peopled by "Bini princes". So by your own admission, Igbos if at all found anywhere near Ika lands have always been an inconsequential minority. So who were the powerful Igbos that changed Eze Chima's name from whatever Bini name he was bearing? Do not bother with the Khime line cos even you guys know it is a fabrication. And not only that, completely wiped out Bini language, tradition and culture from your midst...leaving you with clearly Bini styled monarchies? Even then, not all Ika clans had kings, most of them were formed quite recently as records show. So then, where did these conquering Igbos come from? And why are you guys speaking an Igbo dialect? Next, are you not aware the most of all the paraphernalia of monarchy in ALL Anioma clans is borrowed from Bini? Meaning, it was not native to the Anioma clans? Keep in mind that Bini is just next door, you do not have to cross any foreign land or territory to enter Bini proper. All clans, communities and parts of the Bini empire were appointed Enogies by the Oba and are ALL BINI speaking. Your Onishes, Ologbosheres, Iyasheres etc are all corrupted version of the Bini originals...right next door to you. From Oguta to Onicha to Agbor...these titles have no meanings in the Ika/Enuani,Ukwuani language you speak. The only meaning is in the Edo tongue and we all know that. So a corruption could not have happened if Ika was a part and parcel of the Bini empire. The Ishans and all Edo dukedoms retained the original names, meanwhile a few miles down south, an Igbo speaking peoples with Igbo days, practicing Igbo traditions adopted these Bini trappings of monarchy. If it was not adopted, how do you explain a so called king bearing an Igbo name Nduka Ezeagwuna going to seek relevance or is it permission to ascend the throne of his fathers? What happened to his Edo lineage or proper Edo name? Are you not aware of the forceful imposition of Bini tongue on Ika speaking Igbanke people carved into Edo state? How they are told to drop their...wait for it...Igbo names and language and speak Edo as they are in Edo state? Are you not aware the Agbor and other Ika clans resisted Bini imperialism and fought wars to block Bini incursion into Ika lands? If that is not enough evidence to show you that Ika was just influenced socio-culturally and politically by her more powerful neighbor, then I guess you have a problem with facts. Finally, the reoccurring decimal in all these claims and counter claims is deliberate display of ignorance on how language and kinship works. Igbos till date have no kingdoms, armies or royal courts. It was purely made up of autonomous communities run on republican principles. How did they penetrate and change your language and culture? And no, your culture is majorly Igbo not Bini as some of you love to claim. Whatever Bini festival or culture practiced in Ika can be shown to borrowed or adopted. On one hand, Igbos were nonexistent in Ika lands and were recent migrants...on the other hand Ika language and traditions gave way to a dominant Igbo presence/culture in Ika land! Make up your minds already! The persistent confusion is so hilarious! Summary, you have a SERIOUS IDENTITY CRISIS.From all indications, it is self imposed. I wont even bother to remind you what transpired 1966-1970. How your Bini kith and kin connived with the Nigerian government to shield and protect you from the greedy and invading Igbo Biafrans. Or how Igbo army officers from the SE like Nzeogwu, Ifeajuna carried out a coup and roped in Anioma Bini people with Igbo sounding names like Onwuatuegwu, Anuforo etc. For some reason, the Nigerian Army could not differentiate between the SE Igbos and descendants of Bini "princes" in Anioma. Never mind that over 80% of your surnames are Edo...or is it Igbo? Even with all your Ologbosheres, Onishes, Iyases and your adas and Bini beads and crowns...they just matched into Asaba after getting directions from the Oba and invited grown men from Asaba and environs for a grand Nigerian rescue party. Or was it genocide now? Remind me please? Did the Oba protest the killing of his kith and kin? Or his Enogies? Na wa for the Nigerian Army, they must be so persistent in their ignorance. Right? You and your people will have to start with telling yourselves the FACTS you have buried under the persistent ignorant stories you have passed on to your children. My 2 cents. 6 Likes |
Culture / Re: 23 Year Old : Obi Nduka Ezeagwuna II Crowned 20th Obi Of Issele-uku - Pictures by PabloAfricanus(m): 5:16pm On Jan 14, 2017 |
ehikwe22: Cmon guys go easy on the barefaced lies Here the name of your most prominent king http://nigeriamonarchs.photoshelter.com/image/I0000ClFwpeMWeCE ...the Obi of Agbor is...wait for it... His Royal Majesty Benjamin Ikenchuku Keagborekuzi the First (Keagborekuzi I). Hopefully you will not be shameless enough to deny that Chuku(Ika dialect)=Chi Ukwu (SE Igbo dialect) Question for you all revisionists... How did chi get into your land, language and names? Apparently according to you guys, Igbos started migrating enmass into Ika regions during the colonial periods or is it the 60s? Or according to some who have starting backtracking...there was or is nothing Igbo in Ika land before the colonials came. What is the chi doing in the name of your Obi or is it Dein now? Who interpreted what chi meant to the descendants of Bini princes (abi no be so)? Are you lots ignorant of how language works? ehikwe22: The problem with you guys is akin to the delusion of the African American slave who calls other dark skin folks "nigger" because he grew up among a white majority. Funny thing is that he/she might have been brought up that way by his/her parents and told there are "real" differences between them and the "other" black folks when infact...there is none. For those of you who have imbibed the habit of attributing "Igbo" to "Igbon" to mean slavery or slave whatever, your names, traditions and language sadly betrays you. It will earn you no points at all, calling it a derogatory name, since the most famous "Igbo" slave (Olaudah Equiano) is from the so called Anioma/Ika lands. Moreover, slavery was not unique to Igbos as even more detailed slavery cultures was practiced by the Binis, Yorubas and Hausa/Fulani etc. This is not to mention the direct slave dealers like the Ijaws, Kalabaris and the Itshekiris etc. They all had extensive slave based societies when infact the Igbos had none, bar the Arochukwu slave raids into the hinterlands. So the hint is to get your facts right. It it is clear you Ikas have been taught wrongly or have inherited a history that was based on inaccurate geneologies. I will attempt to re iterate the points I have been arguing for since I picked interest in this topic. Across the Niger is a diverse group and community of people speaking various dialects of what you call your "Ika" language. This language is recognized by both the natives and the so called Ikas as the "Igbo" language. The Igbos are bordered by Igallas, Idomas, Ekoi, Kalabaris, Annangs, Efiks, Ijaws etc. None of these bordering ethnic groups have any notable or significant Igbo presence in their language, culture or tradition. On the other hand, the so called Ikas/Aniomas of today have an overwhelmingly Igbo presence in their language, cultures and tradition. With possible and provable migrations from the neighbouring Bini empire, the Igallas and the eastern Yorubas, the core of what is Ika/Anioma has remained Igbo before, during and after the colonial periods. These are provable facts. As visible in other cultures, powerful kingdoms and empires influence lesser cultures socio-culturally and politically. Hence you have Bini styled kingships in Anioma bearing fullblown Igbo names. Nduka Ezeagwuna has no relationship to anything Bini or Yoruba or Igalla. It is unapologetically Igbo and give to a son by an Igbo speaking father. Why the father forgot royal, superior and more fantastic Bini names is clearly anyone's guess. So, claims to Bini origin has not even began to erode the core Igbo root of what is called Anioma or Ika today. In summary, its either all these Ika/Anioma revisionists are not aware that what they speak is just a dialect of the wider Igbo language spoken across the Niger, or they are deliberately suffering from a serious case of selective amnesia. For the records, what Ika/Anioma speaks as a language has been proven to be a dialect of the wider Igbo dialects spoken across the Niger. Igbo presence and inheritance in Ika/Anioma was not as a result of colonization or immigration (funny some people shamelessly bring up that). Now, you can claim any identity you want, but please stop twiddling with shared history. It is distasteful and will only end up creating more confusion for you and your posterity. For whatever reasons you guys have decided to draw away from the Igbo tag, it does not do away with the fact that the core of what is called Ika/Anioma today is still most closely identified with your neighbours across the Niger. And yes not even Bini that is contiguous with Ika/Anioma land..shares more in terms of language, tradition and culture than the SE Igbos. And that is a fact. Ofcourse as one poster noted...you are free to counter with facts and not "take it from me" statements. 6 Likes 1 Share |
Culture / Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by PabloAfricanus(m): 12:45am On Dec 27, 2016 |
ChinenyeN: Semantics appear to be getting in the way, clearly if Fact B follows Fact A, then logically Fact B is secondary to and somehow dependent on Fact A.. That is where I beg to differ. The most visible unit of societal cum political organization in "Igbo" land is clans. Some of these clans have various ancestries and origins, as expected of people who have experienced migration over the centuries. Ethnic identifiers wordwide are generally linked to some identifiable feature of the land, the people themselves, some deity, some religious or cultural belief or language etc. In this case, the most common name known to history among the Igbo speaking peoples is the very name of the language itself. It is what the Igbo peoples called themselves. It was not picked from just one clan or one prominent Igbo community. Heck, even the so-called Bini migrants in Onitsha and Oguta, right in the heart of core Igbo clans called their neighbours, whom they spoke the same language and practiced the same customs onye Igbo, till today. My point is that the word "Igbo" among the Igbo speaking peoples is not recent or contemporary with colonial history. If it were, then it will be acceptable to say that the name "Igbo" is just a linguistic classifier used to group together unrelated peoples who spoke different versions of the same "Igbo" language. I am arguing that interpretation in itself is erroneous and obscures the fact ethnic groups while related still retain the peculiarity of unique languages. Igbo for all I can see appears to be the most visible appellation by which these peoples identified themselves. While most clans identified themselves by their clans names and communities, the language and general name by which they called themselves all over was "Igbo". And it was not just them, their neighbours too called them by that name "Igbo". And all this was precolonial. And I gave you instances of communities and surnames prefixed and suffixed by that name to buttress my point. If you factor in the fact that Igbo dialects are as diverse as they are sometimes mutually unintelligible to otherwise Igbo clans, don't you think that linguistic classification in this case, appears to be secondary to general Igbo ethnic identity?. |
Culture / Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by PabloAfricanus(m): 10:51pm On Dec 26, 2016 |
Probz: Are you trying to say way before the colonial masters came, some people who ARE NOT Igbos suddenly started speaking Igbo in an era of closely knit communities, clans and kingdoms. Never mind that the Igbos have no historical record of kingdoms, conquests or invasions of other people's land? In other words, "Igboid"-speaking communities and their practice of "Igbo" tradition and customs is not as a result of contact/interaction/kinship with other "Igbo" clans or groups...but the explanation should be looked for elsewhere, right? Maybe attribute it to trading or some other reason like close boundaries and the like, but never kinship. Presumably this makes less sense to you than lumping together 2 neighbouring peoples or communities who do NOT speak each others languages, do NOT practice the same culture and do NOT have the same deities right? Or as some others have argued in the past, groups and clans who speak the same language and practice the same customs/traditions DO NOT NECESSARILY have to be related, but groups who do NOT are actually infact related, even when there is no evidence, right? Never mind that historical records of migration, cultural affiliations and long standing traditions IN ADDITION TO LANGUAGE are universally recognized as markers of ethnic origins. Apparently, way back then, language was so fluid and easy to learn that they had language schools and academies where Binis, Itshekiris, Hausas, Nupes, Igbos, Tivs, Yorubas and Fulanis folks send their kids to go learn each other's language right? You know, for some obscure reason scientists are yet to unravel, after those precolonial people's have attended these ancient language academies, they went back to their ancestral lands and promptly forgot their native tongues, customs and traditions... Hilarious don't you think? Or did I misinterpret your point? 5 Likes |
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