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Politics / Re: . by PabloAfricanus(m): 3:08pm On Oct 09, 2018
Bede2u:
the thing i will say in this matter after reading posts from hammer6f is that if we are ever planning an independent igbo nation we MUST work with this map...no matter the opinion of the various clans captured within it...cos the wolf doesnt concern itself with the opinion of the sheep

www.nairaland.com/attachments/3131018_igboland_jpeg72ffdbe9771892b98ffe883330da1679
If it means war, i will pick up arms God willing

However, if we are talking about igbo within nigeria, then we must primarily work with the map of SE

Bede2u:
its a big if...and igbo are not in a hurry. The divine duty i speak of comes naturally in the mind of igbos to always attach some kinship to folks in ss. No surprises here
if nigeria divides, it will be due to worsening economic situation. Ppl will become disillusioned by everything. Especially southerners. It will start as rumour b4 it snowballs into massive unrest in different parts of the country. The govt will soon realise that wat is going on is beyond their control. In the crisis, the igbo nation will just be one out of many fighting to leave the union. The massive win i mean is that after leaving the union alongside many southern nations, the next war will be to make gains into the niger delta..in order to gain sea access. Our main enemies will be ijaw and bini and we are larger than both of them put together and multiplied by 2.
only an igbo leader who is pro ss/se can garner the fellowership of a true leader in igboland. Ditto nnamdi kanu

Sorry, but you're a disgusting idia.t angry
Your naivete, lack of tact and outright silliness is frightening.
Are you for real? for real, real?
Like those unfortunate souls in those "territories" are just gonna fold their hands and watch you carve them up as you wish?
Just because you can or just because of some phantom igbonic divine duty?
Again you're a stupendously ignorant and disgusting id.iat.
I see your fellows here nailing down the realities on ground for your kith and kin and all you can come up with is a surefire strategy for utter defeat?
Have you given any thought to feelings and aspirations of the peoples in those "territories"?
Maybe they have valid reasons for the disdain and extreme suspicion they have for people from your enclaves?
I see, and I was thinking it's just standard tribalism. This shhh.ittt runs deeper than I thought.
You guys are nuts!
Some of you Igbos are destined to learn diplomacy the hard way.

Hopefully, the messiahs from your enclave do not adopt this mindset of yours.
Hopefully.

2 Likes

Politics / Re: Yorubas Are The Most Industrious,Richest & Educated Tribe in Nigeria & Africa by PabloAfricanus(m): 1:02pm On Oct 06, 2018
Omoluabi9:
It's true na!

Those "Sabo's" (at the bolded) don't understand what's at stake; forming "Voltron" for wetin no concern them.

Extending some foolish "hand-shake across the Niger" for some bogus "Southern Unity".

Southern unity in this grossly ethnical and chronically tribal climate

It won't work.

Happy Sunday milady smiley

Dear cheer leader,

Don't you think it's time to come out in the open and wear your true colors? grin
Like you never really needed the disguise in the first place, no? undecided
Don't disappoint me with another stale reply this time grin cheesy
Make it sound cool and hip ok? wink
Politics / Re: Yorubas Are The Most Industrious,Richest & Educated Tribe in Nigeria & Africa by PabloAfricanus(m): 1:00pm On Oct 06, 2018
Omoluabi9:
So, na you create this epoch-making thread?!

Wawu! shocked

You, Wycatt/Wowcatty and Modath are the most patriotic Yoruba girls and real LUABI's on nairaland; unlike some saboteurs who suffer from Stockholm syndrome.

Well done guys!


Hello cheer leader grin cheesy
Miss my slaps?
Politics / Re: Anioma State And South East Zone by PabloAfricanus(m): 4:49am On Jul 18, 2018
BabaRamota1980:
If any mod block or hide my posts here anymore I will make sure I report the issue to supermod and with copy direct to Seun' personal email. You will not censor my freespeech rights. Not here in Nairaland. If you dont like opposition to yanminri carry your nylon bag you brought with you to Yorubaland and return back to village. angry

Ugbodu is a Yoruba community and part of Anioma. As a Yorubaman I earn right to speak on Anioma thread.

You are a Yoruba guy I guess?
Can I ask you some questions related to Yoruba history if you don't mind?
Politics / Re: Anioma State And South East Zone by PabloAfricanus(m): 4:44am On Jul 18, 2018
clefstone:
Aboh remained neutral during the war. Yes, some Abohs living in PH and d East fought for Biafra but some others fought for the Federal troops. Today, we don't have the Biafra sentiments like the Igbo's do, we really don't care. The Igbo's keep telling their children how the Yoruba's are betrayers, how the middle belters were used by the Hausa-Fulanis etc, all because of that war. It is a sentiment shared by majority of Igbo's and it defines your people now. It affects their way of life and politics, it's become an Igbo thing. These are sentiments we do not share. While I will never judge the Igbo's for having these sentiments, the issues do not bother my people. Read about the Asaba massacre

This is such a cold blooded declaration of unbreakable enmity! What?
Are you guys for real? That is not an innocent statement at all.
The thought, reasoning and emotions behind that statement is one of implacable enmity.
You Aniomas basically started a fire that engulfed and almost wiped out Igbos,
A people you somehow speak their language, practice their tradition and customs,
I mean without any sense of shame or modesty you guys practically tell the whole world you lost your Bini language to Igbo traders
whom you keep on saying you never had anything to do with!
How did you then abandon your language to them?
How did the Igbos do it?
Are you forgetting that Bini has always been next door and till today Edo people have never spoken Igbo?

How come the first Igbo man who declared himself as Igbo to the British in Nigeria was Obi Ossai of Aboh?
Oh, you Aboh people suddenly developed selective amnesia and forgot your own history right?

So you are saying that even though the whole civil war thing was started by Aniomas, and Aniomas fought for the Igbos including
Nzeogwu himself, it simply does not matter or count.
What counts is your "sentiment" and whom you chose to share "your sentiment" with. That's cold mennnnn. cool cool
What matters is that you would rather be known as others who are not you, than sympathize with the only peoples you share anything with?
What matters is that you do not share in the sentiments of over 2 million people who were killed, starved and genocided for nothing...all because they refused to point out to the rest of Nigeria that actually you Aniomas are not Igbos?

What do you think would have happened if Igbo leaders and Ojukwu had publicly made the same announcement you are making now?

"These people who speak Igbo, bear Igbo names and basically practice Igbo customs and traditions are not Igbos, Nigerians beware and take note. Nzeogwu, Ifeajuna are actually Bini people bearing Igbo names and so Aniomas are responsible for Jan 15 1966."

What if the Igbos had teamed up with the Middle Belt, Yorubas and Hausas to bring the war to the very peoples who started the civil war?
I mean its easy, all it takes is a statement pointing out that the Igbos do not share the same sentiments with these Bini people across the Niger
who have been mistakenly identified as Igbos just because they speak Igbo and all that.
How about that? undecided

How many Igbo lives do you think would have been lost as compared to Anioma lives, if Ojukwu, Okpara and Zik had publicly denied you Aniomas in 1966?
You know just the same exact way men named Emeka Esogbue, Elechi Amadi, Bini men bearing Bini names such as Nwachukwu, Chukwuma, Ifeanyi are publicly and without any sense of remorse denying Igbos?
Who do you think the Northerners and the Yorubas would have bombed when they came to avenge Ahmadu Bello, Balewa, Akintola and Ademulegun?
I mean the Igbos were basically in charge of the Army, you remember that don't you?
Who stood to lose? Do you remember that the Eastern Region had the oil in the 60s and was poised to be the richest region?
Who truncated all that? Bini people bearing Igbo names and speaking Igbo remember?
How come the 1966 coup was never known as the Anioma coup?
Or I forgot, Aniomas were Igbos back then, but stopped sharing Igbo sentiments after the war! cry undecided
You guys are silly jokers grin cheesy

Let me show you why the joke is squarely on you Aniomas any way this story turns, heads or tails.
In fact your denial or non denial makes absolutely no difference. grin cheesy

These quotes are from "The Political Economy of Aboh, 1830-1857"
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3601659

Aboh traders certainly went beyond Asaba, for there was another major market forty-eight kilometers north of Idah, which the
Europeans called "Bocqua" or "Hickory" or "Iccory" and the Igala called "Ikiri."
In the early 1830s, Laird and Oldfield found that this market,which was held every ten days,
was "attended by Eboe [Aboh] and Attah[ Igala], and even Bonny traders from the south, and those from Eggan, Cuttum-Curaffee
[Koton-Karifi] and Fundah [Panda] in the north."

The Lander brothers who traveled up and down the Lower Niger in the early 1830s, identified Aboh as the most
important Igbo settlement in the region, and, although Obi Ossai had no political power beyond the banks of the Niger, they referred to him as the "king" of the Igbo.


In 1841, it was reported that Aboh dominated the Niger, from the Forcados River in the delta to Onitsha.
In the words of the British naval officers who led the 1841 Niger Expedition", Obi Ossai, King of the Ibu [Igbo], is therefore one of the
most powerful and influential rulers on the banks of the river."
The Obi was so confident of the geographical extent of his influence that he had readily assured them that he could "open the road from Aboh to
Benint to the English" traders.
By 1840, he certainly controlled the flow of trade from the areas to his north, specifically Igala and the hinterland Igbo
areas on either side of the Niger, as well as movements to and from the delta.


On the 1841 Niger Expedition, missionary interests were represented by the agents of the CMS: J. F. Schon, a German; Samuel Adjai
Crowther, a Yoruba ex-slave; and Simon Jonas, an Igbo ex-slave. At Aboh, the Obi seemed so impressed by Jonas' rendering of the Beatitudes (Matthew 5:3-11) in Igbo that he implored Jonas to stay on: "you must teach me and my people. The white people can go up the river without you: they must leave you here until other people come."

From the time of Obi Ossai, the Aboh leadership had been very accommodating of the Europeans.
In 1854, Chukwuma who received the Pleiad Expedition on behalf of the Obi, expressed "his satisfaction at seeing the whitemen here once more." (The British had not traveled up the Niger since the 1841 Niger Expedition.)
He recalled that his father (Obi Ossai) had enjoined his sons and heirs "always to be friends with white men."
Chukwuma then stressed that he and his people "would gladly attend to that bequest."
Like his late father he too was quite anxious that the British should "come regularly to trade."

The first Igbo peoples known to the British and whom they traded with and introduced Christianity to were the Abohs!
Ooops, I forgot or rather Obi Ossai and his sons forgot to tell the British about the Lufthansa flight that lifted them from Igueben LGA to Igbo lands in 1397!
I know of course, those historical records do not matter to a people who would rather "choose to identify" as others than their ancestral lineage.
The silliness of the pretend game you Aniomas are foisting on yourselves is just phenomenal!

Igbos should simply cut these people off, they are not worth having anything to do with.
A people who possess such volcanic levels of self hate and inferiority complex are a ticking time bomb.
They do not even hold a fraction of the hatred for the Middle Belt, Yorubas and Hausas who collaborated to kill them on their own their own lands during the civil war.
They have even forgotten by choice, that they suffered gruesome murders at the hands of the Binis, Urhobos, Ijaws and other ethnic groups who surround them, just because they have always known them as Igbos.
They would rather deny anything to do with Igbo and then keep on speaking Igbo, bearing Igbo names and practicing Igbo culture and traditions, while expecting Igbos and the rest of Nigeria to take them serious.
This level of self imposed confusion is what no sensible people should allow in their midst.

In fact, I think it's the Binis who should be extra wary of these shape shifting deniers of history and ancestry, whose sentiments can determine their identities.
LOL, what a funny people grin

11 Likes 4 Shares

Politics / Re: On Restructuring We Stand, N’delta, Middle Belt, Yoruba, Igbo Leaders Insist by PabloAfricanus(m): 6:41pm On Mar 25, 2018
Omololu2121:
that's why southern politicians need to sit down together and talk,we must let the north know if we can't renegotiate the structure of this country then it's better we all go our different ways,it will be better to do it when we have a southerner that believes in dissolution of Nigeria in power at the federal level.

The southern president will start by sending every military and paramilitary personal back to their state of origin,and also make sure he redistribute every weapons equally among the 6 geopolitical zone,if the north do not agree to restructuring, then the whole southern state should declare the south an autonomous country.

If there is war it should be the whole south against the north,the side with more money to buy weapons shall win the war.

But it's only possible with fresh southern politicians that believes in dissolution of this hell hole called Nigeria.

Interesting point of view.
If I remember correctly, your above proposition was the core of the resolutions agreed on at Aburi.
Maybe I'm wrong or don't get it.
What was the difference between what you just proposed and the Aburi agreement Gowon and his cabinet reneged on?
Culture / Re: The Bantu People Did Not Come From Or Originate In Egypt.... by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:52am On Dec 12, 2017
joshcain95:
https://youtu.be/_BSGLwOu4iM

https://youtu.be/cnzbK3-lj0U

Check out the videos that show without doubt the Bantu people are Benue-Congo in origin and not Egyptian at all

Reply and leave your thoughts only after you've studied the material

I think it's the other way round.
the predynastic Egyptians came from Central, West and East Africa.
this was before the rivers in the now Sahara dried up and the desert was formed.
the people who lived in that area migrated up from deep within Africa.
Culture / Re: Ibo Eze Has Still Not Been Buried 5yrs After He Died by PabloAfricanus(m): 11:35pm On Dec 11, 2017
LaudateII:


I know the only word you learnt in English is 'cheerleader.' Maybe that was the name you were baptised with at birth, not so? Let us know Axxeman = PabloAfricanus. Or do you want to tell us another lie?

sorely tempted to, but I will pass.

1 Like 1 Share

Culture / Re: "Benin People Owned Lagos, Aworis Paid Royalties To Them" — Erelu Abiola Dosunmu by PabloAfricanus(m): 12:01pm On Dec 11, 2017
grin wink shocked cool grin

some people are not gonna sleep tonight ooo
see them calling a whole Erelu insignificant and a liar.
Akiolu and Ajayi Bembe said the exact same thing and no rejoinder could counter the facts they presented.
It's way deeper than that ni ooo cheesy
She deliberately withheld many things some people don't wanna hear.

For the folks who can't handle the facts, find out whose signatures were on the treaty that ceded Lagos to the British.
And then find out who the Awori actually were and how large they were before jumping to conclusions.
Lagos is more or less Yoruba in every way, there's no controversy about that, the land or the people.
Its the precolonial history that is being discussed here, and that's the story of who was whom before Lagos became what it is today.

Now where is that loud mouthed cheerleader angry

1 Like 1 Share

Politics / Re: Why Is Africa Backwards & Why Are Blacks The Most Unsuccessful Race by PabloAfricanus(m): 3:53pm On Nov 27, 2017
1.Inability to plan
2. Inability to organise society around principles of justice and equity
3. Inability to learn, adapt and borrow knowledge
4. Inability to reason
5. Inability to research
6. Lack of courage
7. Inability to confront nature without resorting to mystical bul.lshit
8. Inability to appreciate technology, it's too much work joor. No worry I go carry the load for my head when I tire I go carry am for my shoulder. Which one be wheel and carriage and horse abi which one be steam engine?

9. Inability to read, write and measure. Too much work.

10. Inability to evolve political systems from backward ones to modern ones, except forced by Westerners

11. Inability to evolve religion and spirituality as knowledge grows. All the popular religions of the world from Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam to Christianity have undergone several changes under different sects and leaders. Old beliefs and ways were successfully questioned and challenged by more enlightened thinkers who went ahead to institute reforms. African spiritual cum religious leaders would rather the earth burn than change one little way of doing anything. The thought of having a sect teaching a reformed version of the same religion is an abomination.

12. Inability to document and share knowledge. The African mind has not even began to contemplate the benefits of documenting knowledge or sharing knowledge (that's assuming they have any). It is simply too much work to write the smallest stuff down and archive it safely for retrieval later.

13. Inability to appreciate beauty and aesthetics. This should probably be the one and only reason Africans are backward. Take a walk to the nearest Mercedes Benz car shop and do a tour of the brand new cars, take a good look at care, attention and expertise that went into crafting such machines. Now think of medical equipment, industrial equipment, the WC etc.
To the African mind, it is simply toooo much work to build something like a car, with an AC, GPS, keyless starter, luxurious interior and all that jazz.
For wetin? Na house?
Guess who the biggest buyers are?

14. Inability to plan towns and cities and run them effectively.
If you doubt me, take a walk to Aba, Warri or one of the slums in Lagos. The only country still running it's economy on generators. Where pipeborn potable water is a luxury. Where good roads are celebrated. Where national airports still have power cut at any moment without notice and smells of liquid and solid waste still ooze out from public conveniences.


15. Lack of a liberal mindset. The typical African mind does want his neighbour to succeed, even when he's not contributing a dime to the success. A tendency to sabotage and blackmail each other for absolutely no reason other than the realization the their neighbours efforts might pay off.


16. Lack of empathy. Africans don't care. No they don't. It all about today, my stomach, my pocket and me and mine. The next door neighbour and his family or village can burn to ashes for all he cares. Africans love pain and suffering. They gravitate and attach themselves to things that bring and increase pain and suffering. They cannot mentally relate to a world where there is less pain and suffering for him AND his neighbour. The idea of doing anything to reduce the pain or suffering of his neighbour is a very very strange concept to Africans. Such altruism is a concept Africans still cannot understand nor relate to.

17. Inability to reason.
18. Inability to reason.
19. Inability to reason.
20. Inability to reason.


Now, these factors are not exclusive to Africans as we all know Westerners are the most evil and murderous people on the planet going by all they've done over the past 600 to 900 years. But still with all of that, their superior application of technology, political organization and dedication to research has seen them transform any land they invade and colonize into first world countries.
Africans on the other hand can't even imitate all they've seen the Westerners do. Its too much work for them.

2 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 3:55pm On Nov 25, 2017
macof:


Recent fabrications also include the bini claim

There is no evidence that Oduduwa came from bini. This is sub Saharan Africa where coronation rites, rituals and traditions, festivals, songs etc are used to tell stories for example; when the owa idanre says he took oduduwa's crown he proves it by showing the crown itself in a festival similar to Olojo in Ife, in idanre there are songs and rituals of how those who came to retrieve the crown have failed

When Ooni wants to show that he defeated Obatala it is proven through a festival. How Moremi saved Ife is portrayed in a festival

What festival exist in bini that portrays oduduwa as a Bini man? What oriki or song? What part of the coronation rites of the Oba of bini portrays oduduwa?
What saying connects oduduwa to Bini?

Some shameless morons who are driven by sentiments and not passion for history came out to say something that has no basis in any their own culture or anybody's culture and more fools like you believe

What is the difference between the Bini claim and Mecca? Both lack evidence and consistency


If you want to know oduduwa's origin, to go Ife...theres an oduduwa cult, there are families who have been tasked for over 800years to pass down stories about oduduwa and keep his groove - the leader of these families is called Obadio.

Coronation rites of the ooni tells us where his origin is, where he first goes to collect a crown (a makeshift crown, his the real one is now in Idanre)


You miss the point really. And your analogy is off. Yoruba rituals and festivals DO NOT HAVE TO MATCH other people's own for there to be a historical link. The Fulanis that took over Ilorin for example do not have a ritual depicting the battles they fought before they took over the city and established an emirate. Are you aware Alimi provided an escourt to take the Alaafin safely back to Oyo after he was captured by Fulani/Hausa soldiers fighting for Afonja? They told him the Aare was gonna spill the Alaafin's blood for sacrifice and he refused to give him up for that purpose.
So going by your analogy, the Fulani wars with Oyo never took place right?

About Bini and Oduduwa, for starters, if you cared to investigate you would find out that the monarchies in most lands ARE ALMOST ALWAYS FOREIGNERS who where not indigenes in the first place. For example, the royal family of England are not even English, Welsh or Scottish. Same goes for Spain, Netherlands and others.
So your idea of trying to create an exception for Yorubas won't fly because history is not on your side.
All oral and recorded history about Oduduwa repeats one fact, he was welcomed into Ife.

This is a Bini account, referencing with songs and rituals as you expect


Ovbia Oba Edun Agharese Akenzua, in his book: Ekaladerhan, tells us that while the Oba of Benin was visiting Ife on November 11, 1982, the Ooni said in part……”As we have mentioned briefly during our historic visit to your domain not too long ago, we said that we were there to pat you on the back for a job well done. Your present visit we regard as a short homecoming, where you will have an opportunity to commune with those deities you left behind. Now my son and brother, long may you reign.” “The address suggested that the people of Benin, or at least, the Royal Family, owe their origin to Ile-Ife. In the prelude of his response to the Ooni’s welcome address, the Oba of Benin tacitly rebutted the submission.” “The Oba said: If the Ooni of Ife calls the Oba of Benin his son and the Oba of Benin calls the Ooni of Ife his son, they are both right.” “The Oba did not elaborate, but in the womb of that innocuous assertion is the fetus of a story, which had never been told in full. In both Benin and Uhe, the story is told with varying details.”

According to Ovbia Oba Edu Akenzua in his book, Ekaladerhan, “the issue is not about whether or not the relationship between Benin and Ife existed, its existence has been proven beyond doubt by anthropological and folkloric evidence. Songs and rituals are performed in both Benin and Ife today which eulogize the link with nostalgia, relish and pride.”

Ovbia Oba Edu Akenzua again, “at the time when the event took place, Uhe had no record of a ruler, let alone a famous one, from whom neighbouring countries could make such a request. Why did the people of Igodomigodo choose Uhe, instead of another place, which is perhaps nearer, to go and request for a king? “



And he was NOT FROM Oke-Ora as you like saying all the time, hear it from the Ooni himself

https://www.oonirisa.org/history-of-ile-ife/


The history of Ife can also be chronologically divided into three periods: The first Ife was known as Ife Oodaye, Ile owuro, ibiti oju ti mo, that is, the land of most ancient days where the dawn of the day was first experienced. The inhabitants of Ife Oodaye were believed to be powerful giants with mystic abilities. Tradition claims that the life of this community came to an end as a result of flood which flushed the whole area occupied by the community. Those who survived the deluge formed the nucleus of the community that formed the second era of the history of Ife.

The second Ife was called Ife Ooyelagbo, that is, the city of the survivors. Tradition maintains that the second Ife lasted until the arrival of some strangers who entered the city of Ile-Ife from the “East”. An attempt made by the strangers to seize power from the aborigines on the land led to a bloody struggle between the strangers led by the Oduduwa on one hand and the aborigines led by Obatala, eventually Oduduwa and his groups won the war.

The third Ife is called Ile-Ife founded with the arrival of Oduduwa and his groups. It is believed that Oduduwa, the founder of the Yoruba raced emerged after the deluge, he (Oduduwa) and his followers descended on to dry land by means of chain ropes from their life boat (hence the saying Oduduwa afi won ron). And later anchored on Oke-Ora (Oranfe Hill) between Ile-Ife and Itagunmodi on the Ife-Ilesa road, from where they came to Moore quarter in Ile-Ife.


So there you have it, Oduduwa arrived with his groups to Ife.
An indigene cannot arrive to a place where he is indigenous to except language has lost its meaning.
The Oduduwa group were not indigenous to Ife according to historical records, here is a editorial by Eluyemi on the Guardian that HAS NOT BEEN CONTESTED

https://guardian.ng/features/ife-coronation-rituals-and-the-primacy-of-history/



IFE enthronement rituals add further insight on royal crown traditions. The coronation process, as summarized by Eluyemi, is divided into a series of structured parts, only certain aspects of which are widely known.

Once the group has arrived at the Obatala temple, the king-elect will be anointed in front of this god and then initiated into the Ogboni association, the Obatala-linked group created to safeguard the rights of Ife’s autochthonous residents

The king-elect stays in the Ilofi for a number of days, during which he is introduced to Ife’s political chiefs (Ihare) and undertakes rites that seem in part to reaffirm the victory of Ife’s second dynasty chiefs over leaders who formed part of the first dynasty. Each chief arriving at Ilofi presents to the king-elect a ritual song addressing something of his family’s history. Reinforcing this event in dramatizing Ife’s political history, some of Ife’s defeated chiefs, among these Obawinrin, the head of Ife’s autochthonous Igbo population, are called on to ‘‘supply music as a sign of submission”. The feather fans (abebe) they wave also underscore the theme of defeat.

Eluyemi explains, with respect to the Ido enthronement ritual and the associated crown of leaves that: ‘‘the aborigines lost their crown to the more powerful invaders…. (This is why) the Onpetu (of Ido) presents the crown to the Oni-elect during the coronation ceremony at Oke-Ido”.


The defeated chiefs are even called upon to supply music!
Let's add more fire to the raging discussion, notice Eluyemi did not say Ife’s autochthonous Ugbo population but Ife’s autochthonous Igbo population. grin shocked
I know some peeps are gonna be like angry
He was referring to Ugbo in Ilaje right? But was he? That must have been a typo on his part right? grin

Some Ife historians mix it up half way and can't seem to make up their minds whether it is Ugbo or Igbo.

http://ifeooye..com.ng/2016/03/art-in-ancient-ife-birthplace-of-yoruba.html


A rather unusual Janus figure from ancient Ife shows a man with diagonal facial markings similar to those of historic and modern Igbo Nri titleholders, suggesting the role a similar group may have played in early Ife as well. Today it is Chief Obawinrin, head of Ife’s Iwinrin lineage, who represents Ife’s historic Igbo population during the annual Ife Edi festival.

These Ife area Igbo populations appear to be distant relatives of autochthonous Igbo families, many of whom were forced out of the city by members of the new Odudua dynasty.22 Sculptures from Ife’s Iwinrin Grove, an Ife site closely linked to Ife’s “Igbo” population, characteristically show vertical line facial markings consistent with works linked to first dynasty Ife history and autochthony. Another 5 percent of Ife sculptures portray Edo (Benin) style facial marks (forehead keloids) or patterns today characteristic of northeastern Yoruba/Nupe communities (a diagonal cheek line and/or vertical forehead line). The remaining 5 percent of the extant Ife terracotta works show unusual “mixed” facial patterns (generally “cat whisker” motifs along with other forms). These marks may reference intermarriages (social or political) at Ife in the early years of the new dynasty.


Talking about Ugbo, you are going to have to contend with Oba Akinruntan if you want to contest further on Oduduwa's history of not being native to Ife.

https://www.thisdaylive.com/index.php/2016/08/27/oba-frederick-obateru-akinruntan-i-am-the-owner-of-ile-ife-i-can-rule-ife-from-my-palace-if-allowed/



Oduduwa was not part of the Yoruba. He was not part of us. He migrated to Ile Ife from Mecca. Look at his tribal marks. He had a foreigner’s marks on his cheeks. He had seven children. Out of these seven, one was a female called Owu. Owu is near Ikire.


When Oduduwa arrived, he came to Ile Ero (Palace) at Iremo quarters in Ile Ife and he was accepted because of our hospitality. Being a non-native and coming from a background where might was right, he engaged in struggles. Oduduwa never had a successful reign in Ile Ife. Although he initially defeated Obatala, Obatala later fought back and conquered him. The late Oba of Benin wrote his autobiography which he titled, ‘I Remain, Sir, Your Obedient Servant.’ He revealed everything in the book. Oba of Benin said the Olugbo is the only recognised Yoruba Oba.


I was with Oba Adeyemi some years ago and he said Olugbo, your father is the owner of Ife before the arrival of Oduduwa – a newspaper published it (the statement of Oba Adeyemi). I did not just wake up to say this.

A lot of the Obas know this truth as well. I am just out to correct history. If the story is not real, they would have responded. This book has been out since three years ago. Silence means consent. Ego may not allow them to say, ‘Yes, I agree with you.’ But they know it is true and that is why they are silent. I have a good relationship with all the other monarchs.

Now apparently even Akinruntan bought into the Mecca myth when the proper reference was somewhere to the East. I blame it on literacy or lack of geographical knowledge, as the Mecca fabrication is not only tenable but totally unrealistic IMO.
The point is, it is established that Oduduwa came from somewhere to Ife, was accepted, fought with the native power brokers to establish his dominance and gained ascendancy to start a dynasty.
What you are going to have to prove to me is which independent kingdom goes out to another unrelated kingdom to ask them to supply a king for them if there was no relationship in the first place?
Are you aware of the claims by Ogiamen family in Bini today that the present royal family of Bini are Yorubas and not ethnic Binis? They claim the Oliha back then went to Uhe to bring a Yoruba prince to usurp Ogiamen's authority. History records that the Ogiamen was later defeated and was forced to sell the land symbolically to the new king.
Why did the Oliha have to go to Uhe? Why not Zaria or Bida or Idah?
How did the Oliha manage to convince a notoriously difficult people like the Binis to accept a foreign prince as a king, even when an Ogie was already ruling the land?
So you see, the story is not as simple as you are trying to make it appear.
The history of most peoples in Southern Nigeria is way more related than we care to admit.

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Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 2:08pm On Nov 25, 2017
laudate:

Here comes the pseudo-intellectual Igbo boy that wants to lecture others about their history, without any source or proof to back up his claims. I laugh today in Greek.... cheesy grin Oh, I miss the days of Terracotta, Jakumo etc, who were the true masters that would have put such braggarts in their place.

You again?
A cheerleader calling me a boy? Really?
So you can only view the world from Igbo vs Yoruba lens?
So I must be Igbo to comment on Igbo matters huh?
Oh I now see, cos I have seen you write fluently in Igbo, the way only an Anioma guy can grin
No wonder the self hatred and inferiority complex shocked shocked
An Anioma cheerleader doing his best to disavow his Igbo identity while stoking the fires of controversy between Igbos and everyone else undecided kiss

You even had to call for support again from your Yoruba masters whom you cannot gain relevance without cry undecided
I spit on your stupi.dity really, since its clear you have no idea what you are talking about and are not even qualified to comment on this topic.

For daring to drag me into your Igbo vs Ipob vs Yoruba nansense take this




Pseudo intellectual really? Coming from a pathetic cheerleader?
You mean I should care to supply extra sources from Uganda and Namibia to a cheerleader who has this to say for a paper presented at the University of Ibadan by the Iyase of Benin himself?
Your pasted articles were written by Benin chiefs, not academic scholars with access to historical evidence, using rigorous analytical methods to determine the authenticity of such accounts. One of the writers is Sam Igbe the Iyase of Benin, who is fond of reciting history from a Benin perspective, with little regard for accuracy of events and patterns of migration. If you knew the articles were inherently defective, why were you cutting and pasting it with such relish, as if it was the gospel truth??

Since apparently the provided links and sources are not enough?
And you have way more access to accurate information than Bini chiefs and the Iyase himself? embarassed
Even if I had quoted the Oba of Benin himself, you would still have found a way to showcase your inbred stupidi.ty by questioning the rigorous analytical methods used to determine the whatever. You id.iat of a chameleon!
You must appear so clever in your own eyes, if only you knew how silly and pathetic you appear.


You pathetic chameleon of a cheerleader angry
You sill.y little jobless cheerleader of no nation.
And here was I thinking I was done with my patriotic duties cry
Seems I have more civic duties to perform knocking sense into you

1 Like

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 10:16am On Nov 21, 2017
superstar1:


Lol!!!!! Revisionist at work again.

Go an look for your lost Son among the Igbos in Onitsha or Ijaws in Gelegele.

We own your thrown, we own your crown, you worship our gods, our kingdom was bigger in all ramifications, we gave your throne the title of an Oba. You never had an Oba before we impregnated your Princess, which your men could not do. We named Benin what it is today - Ile Ibinu. The Ife Art -- the terracotta head -- has been scientifically proven to predate Benin Art. Our words are strongly entrenched in your lexicon when tell us the Bini words in our lexicon.

The impact of our culture and influence is undeniably written all over Bini culture. Some nonentities are saying Yorubas were never United. Really!!!!! Then they should be read up on Emperor Alaafin and centuries of ruling.

Read up on Obatala Obatosa. You will know since when the Oba has been in the lexicon of the Yorubas. Oba came into your lexicon when Oranmiyan was sent to establish a our lineage on your throne and which he did successfully. The title of your throne was Ogiso.

Truth is bitter but we will keep ramping it down your throat. Our lineage still rule Bini kingdom till today. Deal with it and cry us holy water.

Another one bubbling with fierce nationalism! cheesy grin
When next you go home, ask your elders about how Ifa saw Oduduwa coming and told the elders at Ife to welcome him, that he will help them.
They saw him coming, though some heads of the houses like Obatala put up a resistance and fought to maintain the status quo.
Guess who formed awo cults to protest his dominance?
Guess where he came from? grin cheesy
Guess why there has always been a mythology and story about Oduduwa coming from somewhere in the east? grin
If you believe the recent fabrications to distance now learned Yoruba historians from that Far East migration story, then I am sorry. cheesy grin
There is a whole lot of intertwined history with Nupe, Bini, Hausa and Yorubas...especially Nupes than is presently documented.
May be you should do some research and inform yourself.

1 Like

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:37am On Nov 21, 2017
babaolofin:
I believed the attention of the traditional institutions mentioned in my last posting had been drawn to that site as one of them said it was not an issue. Also, they believed young boys online are getting excited to keep themselves busy. You don't just cooked up a story against a well civilized, urbanized & commercially strong Ijebu people historical facts. The only truth in that story is that Onikoyi (the traditional owner of Ikoyi) was from Oyo just as Olubara of Ibara (Abeokuta) was also from Oyo. The camping of Orisa was just a fabrication. Will OGEGBO of IBONWON camp his Agemo in Agbara? They imported Ibefun (an Ijebu riverine town close to Ososa via Ijebu Ode). People from time immemorial refer to Eyo returning to Iperu at the end of Eyo festival day to mark the end of Eyo day as it was brought to Lagos from that area as Bamgbose, Kudeti & Ojuelegba Egungun masquerade were all brought to Lagos with their Orisa.

People on nairaland immediately overshadowing historical facts & preventing people from reading the foundational truth by immediately posting series of none issues to cover up as observed by some people are we'll-done.

Kabiesi, thanks sir.

I also greet laudate, macof , etc well-done.


Dude stop heating up the space with this your lamentations over phantom issues.
No one cooked any story against anybody, you just happen to not be conversant with your history.
Lack of documentation, excessive attachment to needless secrecy and nonchalant attitude to history is to blame.

These are the take home points for you

Point 1, you share more, far more than you already know with your Bini cousins (believe me, it will shock you to ur bone marrows) grin

Point 2, back in precolonial days, there was nothing like Yoruba land or an Ijebu nationality, there was an Ijebu alliance, an Ijebu-Oyo alliance, an Ijebu-Ife alliance...same with Owos, the now Egbas and other sub groups now called Yoruba.

Point 3, the Bini empire extended to more areas now popularly known as "Yoruba" land, a portion of Ekiti from Ijero axis for example was under Bini, I am sure you are probably not aware of the relationship between Ondo/Akure and Bini.

Point 4, there is more to the Oranmiyan/Oduduwa lineage than you are probably aware of (let me leave it at that) grin cheesy

Point 5, your fierce Ijebu "nationalism" or Yoruba "nationalism" is entirely misplaced. The boundaries and ethnic identities before colonization were not that rigid, else Oranmiyan won't have had a chance at going to Bini to start a dynasty.
If it were that rigid, many families in Ife and Oyo now bearing the Yoruba ethnic tag, who were originally had Tapa, Hausa, Borgu, Fulani and Nupe origins won't have settled and blended successfully. If you doubt me ask the Fani-Kayode family where they are from originally. grin
Another clear example that you are largely ignorant of history is the fact that most Yoruba people are completely unaware that there is a Yoruba enclave in the heart of Anioma lands in Delta state, the Olukumis, who not only speak Igbo, but also speak an old Yoruba dialect till today. Another example is the Fulani ruling houses of Hausa lands, they HAD NOTHING to do with Hausa language, culture or history apart from the Jihad that saw them taking over. Guess what? They have been the face, voice, hands and rulers of Hausa land since then, infact they signed the handover documents ceding those territories to the British undecided
A few years from now, guess who will be crying over the dominance of Bola Tinubu's dynasty, who are not even Lagosians not to talk of being biologically related to Madam Tinubu's family in the first place? grin
These things happen, and politically astute men like Bola Tinubu carve out a befitting niche for themselves, I give him kudos though, he's earned it well.

Point 6, this bush rat you are chasing under the guise of crying over the news that Bini has influence in Ikorodu or Ijebu lands might hurt you more if you go about it this way. Who told you your own family are "pure" Yorubas or Ijebus? Have you really bothered to trace your family tree? When the original Obalades went out to found kingdoms, they left with war parties and entourages, guess where the men who made up those war parties and entourages came from? grin cheesy
Even worse, to ensure loyalty and prevent usurpers from taking over their thrones, they regularly freed slaves or setup slave households that will be perpetually subservient to them, then made them generals, collectors of isakole or court officials.
The family and orishas that regularly have to be worshipped required certain heads I can not mention here.Do you want to guess where they got the men and women for all these power plays? cheesy grin shocked


Point 7, If you were shown whose signatures were actually on the document ceding sovereign territories like Eko, Bini and other kingdoms to the British, you would probably jump inside the Lagoon. grin

Point 8, goan sleep joor. Na ignorance of history dey worry una. The kings and their descendants know what's up. And its not as rigid as you crying lots are trying to make it sound. You share more with your neighbours than you are aware of.

1 Like

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 11:11pm On Nov 19, 2017
laudate:


Eeyah! sad You are still wallowing in pain, which is why you feel the need to lash out at someone. What a pity. undecided It appears my comments have the ability to get you so worked up to the point of frothing at the mouth in anger and helplessness. Ndo. Try not to let your frustrations get the better of you. It hurts you that I am not supporting your own people online, is that why you are so upset?? Hmmn? Tell us, o!

Oya, which one of my posts have you gone to do some further research on, so we can discuss it further? You have only mentioned 3 of them so far. There are 11,997 posts left to go! Get to work, boy!! cheesy


Me getting worked up over a pathetic cheerleader's antics? WTF undecided
I'm saying get out of my way you i.diat!
I'm just doing my civic duties getting this once vibrant forum sanitized of daft chameleons and ignorant cheerleaders cool
Why egging Yorubas on against Igbos all the time?
You muddle up the discussion with irrelevant cheerleading nansense, and you are ALWAYS to be found on ALL Igbo threads.
I see you all over the place, doing just one thing, pathetic cheerleading.
I would not have even bothered replying you if it was just that, apparently Igbo vs Yoruba threads drive traffic for Seun.

But playing the chameleon on this Edo thread, naaaaa that was cheerleading taken too far.

Seeing as no one has taken it on themselves to correct you and call you to order.
Even the Yoruba posters you tag along their trail and call for backup all the time should be tired of you by now grin

Here I am helping out, as concerned citizen.
Oya take am once again


Now go and stop cheerleading ok?

2 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 10:49pm On Nov 19, 2017
laudate:


You keep chanting the word 'cheerleader,' like a broken record, as if someone stuck it to the tip of your tongue and commanded you to recite it, 100 times each day. cheesy Or maybe you were actually a cheerleader in the recent past? Or you had the hots for a certain pretty cheerleader in high school? Tell us, o ! Let us know how to treat your case.

And there was nothing intellectual about my contributions to the debate on the Forbes article. smiley It was just me, giving a few chaps on that thread, a piece of my mind! That thread is several months old, and yet it is still causing you such pain? Was that why you brought it up again, now? Wow!! How nice! grin If I had known it would leave such a deep impression on your mind, I would have put more effort into posting remarks that would have made you truly unhappy. cheesy

Now, your response up here shows that you must have been a comedian in your past life. undecided And maybe a few folks thought your jokes were funny, so they cheered you on. Sorry to burst your bubble - but they lied. sad Your attempts to be seen as some kind of intellectual or a smart scholar, has fallen flat on its face and made you look too ridiculous for words. You really want people to take you seriously, but sadly your efforts are not working. Go back and conduct some more detailed research on the topics you want to make contributions on, so that people can at least listen to you with some modicum of respect. Until then, try not to feel too pained. But if you still do, well.... who cares?

Trying to hide your silliness under attempts at humor are we?
You have not been able to address the topic, counter any of the points I brought up or contribute to the thread.
So what's your point really undecided
I come upon your silly posts all the time on threads where you do a full time job cheerleading Yoruba forum members.
Your opinion is irrelevant and I am definitely not here to amuse anyone or be amused either.
Your cheerleading is cluttering up this once vibrant forum with irrelevant nonsense and I don't find that amusing too.

So take this this again cheerleader



And this too grin grin

2 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 10:40pm On Nov 19, 2017
laudate:


Your pasted articles were written by Benin chiefs, not academic scholars with access to historical evidence, using rigorous analytical methods to determine the authenticity of such accounts. One of the writers is Sam Igbe the Iyase of Benin, who is fond of reciting history from a Benin perspective, with little regard for accuracy of events and patterns of migration. If you knew the articles were inherently defective, why were you cutting and pasting it with such relish, as if it was the gospel truth?? shocked grin


Now this is beyond hilarious, are resorting to bombastic statements to drive home a meaningless point?
using rigorous analytical methods to determine the authenticity of such accounts
Do tell, which of the authors or academic scholars known to you or you can provide references here have used rigorous analytical methods to determine the authenticity of such accounts

Did you just write this?
Chief Sam Igbe is now fond of reciting history from a Benin perspective, with little regard for accuracy of events and patterns of migration

Were you not the one defending Edo history, Edo oral accounts, Edo kings and lands in the thread about Gelegele? shocked shocked
How come you did not know the Iyase of Benin and by implication all Edo historians do not use rigorous analytical methods to determine the authenticity of such accounts

So they used rigorous analytical methods to determine the authenticity of such accounts to determine the Ijaws are not indigenous to Gelegele, but did not when presenting an historical paper on Bini history?
And you had to switch sides so quick you just realized they have little regard for accuracy of events and patterns of migration?
Whatever that means in your sill.y mind. angry

You pathetic chameleon of a cheerleader, this is for u again

3 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 10:21pm On Nov 19, 2017
laudate:


I have asked the Yoruba people on this thread to translate those names for you, and I am sure they will do so shortly. wink Baby124 has already done part of it. undecided I am not an adherent of Ogun, and it is not worshipped in my own part of the country, so swearing by Ogun would be an exercise in futility. I have spent several years in Lagos, so I can make out quite a bit of the language. This means I can tell which ones are cuss words, and which ones are jokes, enough to make sense of the context in which they are used.

As for the contradictions in the articles you have been cutting-and-pasting as well as your own position.... gosh....they are so many. shocked Where do I even start from? The list of names just jumped out at me, because some of my Yoruba friends and I, have had cause to debate the meanings of these names, in the past. So I will advise that you actually read up works by academic scholars, and use their articles to confirm if those cut-and-paste pieces of yours,' actually make sense. sad

Your pasted articles were written by Benin chiefs, not academic scholars with access to historical evidence, using rigorous analytical methods to determine the authenticity of such accounts. One of the writers is Sam Igbe the Iyase of Benin, who is fond of reciting history from a Benin perspective, with little regard for accuracy of events and patterns of migration. If you knew the articles were inherently defective, why were you cutting and pasting it with such relish, as if it was the gospel truth?? shocked grin

Anyway, all said and done your pseudo-intellectual antics are truly quite amusing. cheesy Were you a comedian by any chance in your former life? grin

Coming from a pathetic cheerleader who does nothing but troll, ask for sources and links while cheerleading grin cheesy
Coming from the master of copying and pasting links, articles and books in over 12,000 posts according to you. cry
Guess who would have been the first to request for sources had I pasted those articles without referencing the authors? undecided

I nearly spilt my tea when reading your pseudo intellectual rants on the thread about the Forbes article on Ojukwu's father and the Rolls Royce saga.
And other threads I bother to read where your cheerleading gets in my way.
I watched as this pathetic cheerleader shifted goal so many times just to spite the Igbo guys commenting. grin
You even had to shame to insist the author must be Igbo, then shifted to something else and then another, without contributing anything to the discourse.

I could not believe a man would stoop so low to play the chameleon.

You this pathetic chameleon of a cheerleader angry

3 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 10:10pm On Nov 19, 2017
baby124:

Your article was cleverly copied and edited to look like the Lisa family shared Obaship with the Lasunwon family. I have shared a more detailed article which shows the Obaship is purely Yoruba descendants. That they have Benin people a space on the council does not make them owners of the land. It was clearly for inclusion. One family on the kings council out of how many trace their progenitor to Benin. But you cleverly tried to make it seem that the Benin people have some kind of Obaship.

You must have comprehension problems really.
I did not cleverly copied and edited any article, neither did I author it.
I copied and pasted verbatim from here
http://www.ayayogong.com.ng/2017/01/what-you-dont-know-about-history-of.html

Exactly as the author, who goes by the name Com. Folarin Adegboyega posted it.
Did you read it at all?

And the counter you pasted from here,
http://www.akdusa.org/home.aspx

Concurred word for word with the information I pasted.
Atleast you now know there is not only an Edo presence in Ikorodu, there is also a Lisa of Ikorodu and they are the king makers.
Just history I was trying to point out.
So what is your point? undecided

2 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 10:06pm On Nov 19, 2017
baby124:

See how he tried to over inflate Benin influence on Ikorodu. They were clearly settlers. He even edited the article to where you will think that Rademo house is a Benin house. LMAO. Nonsense. How many groups have since settled in Lagos? So that now proves that they own Lagos.

You must be a funny chap. grin
I never mentioned anything about Benin influence in Ikorodu.
I never edited any article as I copied verbatim to the thread.

You on the other hand, had to go and find out there was a Lisa of Ikorodu after all cheesy cheesy cheesy
That is after vigorous denials and ignorant puffery. grin
You did not even have the courtesy to quote properly and acknowledge you were wrong.
Cmon stop trying to save face and face the topic.

What if I brought more evidence of families with Edo origins in Lagos not to mention over Yoruba land? undecided

4 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 10:01pm On Nov 19, 2017
baby124:

It is a title. They sit on a council, yes but there is no Obaship to the Lisa title which was the argument from the beginning. They were also settlers, which is clearly evident. They had nothing to do with the Oba of Benin. Your shady claim has been destroyed. They may be a king making family, but that is where it ends. One out of many king making families obviously.

Trying to save more face are we?
They had nothing to do with the Oba of Benin? Did you even read the article you quoted?



Soon after, some large contingents of Benin migrants came by land through Iki in Ogun State (where almost the whole land belongs to the Olisa family of Ikorodu).
This group of Benin people was led by a wealthy and powerful man called Eregbouwa (now called Rebugbawa in Ikorodu) from the ancient royal family of Oliha of Benin City.
In Benin language Ere means King and Uwa means peace and prosperity.

http://www.akdusa.org/home.aspx

2 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:58pm On Nov 19, 2017
baby124:

Your article claimed Lisa was an Obaship. Which is a bloody lie. You are a liar and a scammer, editing articles to make your point. All the Oba's have been pure Yoruba descendants. I have an ancestor from the Ayangbure family too. Nobody on the kings council flaunts that they are Bini except you. Trying to make a point and overblow Bini influence when these people were just settlers looking for new life opportunities and had nothing to do with the Oba of Benin. So many groups have later settled in Lagos, so what is your point? That they now own Lagos. Which was the beginning of your argument. Nonsense.

LOL grin
Ad hominems all over the place over a simple historical fact.
Haba, these are the yoots of today cheesy grin

I did not edit the article or any articles I quoted. I copied and pasted verbatim with the links included.
Can you show me where I edited any of the articles?
Also show me where the articles claimed the Lisa (whom you were not even aware existed grin) is an Oba as you claimed?
Can you do that?

1 Like

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:54pm On Nov 19, 2017
baby124:

The Obaship is strictly Yoruba. Rademo and Lasunwon are descendants of the children of Akarigbo. The Olisa or Lisa family are a king making family. But they are settlers, they did were not founders of Ikorodu and therefore cannot be Oba's. Like I said, it's a title.
http://www.akdusa.org/home.aspx

Ha! You just landed after finding out for yourself right? grin
So they are BINI SETTLERS huh?
How come you did not know there was a title called Lisa of Ikorodu? grin cheesy
And how come you did not know they were Bini settlers who are now the King makers of Ikorodu?
You even had to assume it was an Obaship?
So much ignorance after all the bluster angry undecided

You only need to acknowledge I was right after all

Soon after, some large contingents of Benin migrants came by land through Iki in Ogun State (where almost the whole land belongs to the Olisa family of Ikorodu). This group of Benin people was led by a wealthy and powerful man called Eregbouwa (now called Rebugbawa in Ikorodu) from the ancient royal family of Oliha of Benin City. In Benin language Ere means King and Uwa means peace and prosperity.

The Benin people settled down amicably with the children of Akarigbo and the farm started to grow into a large establishment. This was about 1630. The institution of Obaships was conceded to the line of Akarigbo while the Olisaship was conceded to the Benin settlers.

In effect the Oba became the reigning monarch while Olisa became the King maker and the Prime Minister of the City State. Prior to the advent of the Benin people, Oga was the head of the settlement. When Oga died, Lasunwon was installed the first Oloja of Ikorodu by Olisa Rebugbawa (the first Olisa of Ikorodu).



Like I said, it's a title.
Attempt to save face smiley
Nope, its not a title, they are Ikorodu's king makers.

1 Like

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:47pm On Nov 19, 2017
baby124:

The so called Lisa he is shouting about are Oloja's, which is a title given to market heads. His article is totally false. I will post the true story here. He is a big time liar. What I know for sure is that no Benin ancestor is an Oba in Ikorodu.

Either you are ignorant or you are pretending to be ignorant.
Fact 1, I did not author those articles
Fact 2, I never mentioned nor tried to prove a Lisa is an Oba in Ikorodu. You did, then changed tunes when ur ignorance was exposed.
Fact 3, you have shifted from there is nothing like Lisa in Ikorodu to it's just a title to they are Olojos or whatever when the facts hit you.
Fact 4, you are not that conversant with the history you are discussing.
Fact 5, you need to go home and learn more about the history you claim to be yours.

PS: I am only trying to add more to the discuss by bringing the Edo narrative.
It's good to hear what their sons, historians or intellectuals think about this topic.
We can not take the narratives and conclude only from the Yoruba perspective can we?
That you are being all defensive and insulting tells me you have no grasp of the history. grin

3 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:40pm On Nov 19, 2017
laudate:


Yes, your articles are contradictory. Your pseudo-intellectual antics have been noticed, but sorry, they have failed as usual. cheesy

You just cut and pasted this piece of fairytale:

Akiolu, Oyekan, Tinubu, Opebi, Okouromun, Esan, Akiode, Ojuelegba, Onigbongbo, Igbobi, Ikeja, Ogba, Ipodo etc., are pure Yoruba words with Yoruba meanings. undecided Ask any of the Yoruba people on this thread, to translate each word for you. There is nothing Edo about them! sad Yet, you just cut and pasted it, as if it was the gospel truth! It is like the word 'Ike' in Igbo. Ike can mean either bottom or strength, depending on the intonation that you give to it. Meanwhile, Ike in Yoruba means 'plastic.' Now, did the Igbo borrow this word from the Yoruba, or does it mean that Igbo is an offshoot of Yoruba language? Or did the Yoruba colonise the Igbo, and adulterate the Igbo language? cheesy

Guy, you are only good for comic relief, I swear! grin

Contradictory? cheesy grin
How? I know the author did missed a lot in his Bini attributions and I clearly stated it when I quoted him.
Did you miss that part?
I quoted that article to bring in an Edo narrative since everyone here seems to be from the all Yoruba or nothing camp.

How did you know the meaning of core Yoruba names like these
Akiolu, Oyekan, Tinubu, Opebi, Okouromun, Esan, Akiode, Ojuelegba, Onigbongbo, Igbobi, Ikeja, Ogba, Ipodo

When you needed this??

Thank you for the translation, o! shocked Unfortunately, my grasp of Yoruba language is minimal, so I wasn't sure about how to proceed with the translations.

So much for your minimal grasp of Yoruba language? undecided cry
Swear you did not know Ojuelegba means the Eye of Elegba? Can you bite an iron bar and swear to Ogun?

Are you sure you are not Yoruba, you this pathetic cheerleader?? grin grin grin grin
Cmon let the cat out of the bag, history is good to discuss we know.
Atleast you can stop hiding and playing the chameleon.
Come outta the shadows and play in the sunlight cheerleader, can you do that? cheesy cheesy cheesy

2 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:23pm On Nov 19, 2017
baby124:

Again, there is nothing like Lisa of Ikorodu. That is a family name and title. Just like Odofin means Chief Justice. Those names eventually became family names. There is a Lisa who is an Oba in Ogun state. You don't even know what you are saying and it clearly shows. That your article is heavily false and desperate. How do you jump from Olisa to Lisa when such titles existed before anyone even knew the Binis existed. Stop posting crazy articles here and do your research. There is no Lisa of Ikorodu Obaship. You wrongly stated that the Lisa was an Oba which is very false. You are asking me if I am a Lagosian. Yet you post articles by mad men who don't have the balls to come out and claim lagos but write articles which are largely untrue just to wrongly inflate the true stories of the land. Do you think we are fools? We know our history very very well. You will have to try harder to make your wishes come true.

Hey, you are meant to discuss and not attack or insult undecided
We are discussing history here remember?
If you do not know the holders of the Lisa title in Ikorodu came from Bini originally, then you need to go home and learn your history.
I did not author the below quote, a Yoruba man did. Do you care to discuss the history?
I want to know more about Edo linkages across precolonial Yoruba history.



Soon after, some large contingent of Benin migrants came by land through Iki in Ogun state (where almost the whole land belongs to the Olisa family of Ikorodu) to the area now known as Ikorodu.

This group of Benin people was led by a wealthy and powerful man called Eregbouwa (now called Rebugbawa in Ikorodu) from the ancient royal family of Oliha of Benin City. In Benin language, Ere means king and Uwa means peace and prosperity, hence Eregbuwa mean king of peace and prosperity. The Benin people settled down amicably with the children of Akarigbo and the farm started to grow into a large settlement. This was about 1630.
The institution of Obaship was conceded to the line of Akarigbo while the institution of Olisaship was conceded to the Benin settlers.
In effect the Oba became the reigning monarch while the Olisa became the Kingmaker and the prima minister of the city-state.

This high position of the Olisa as the next in rank to the Oba in the city state was borne out in his attribute or cogno men in the Yoruba metaphor: AJUWE Akoye Orulu egbin o ru’lamuren a worun meaning – a noble gentlemen who administers the town. This of course, is done subject to the authority of the Oba and it presupposes that the cordiality between the Oba and the Olisa should be impenetrable. This was the tradition arrangement. The institutions and deities such as the Osugbo, the Awo Opa, the Inomu and the Eluku were designed for the good administration and peace of the town.
Prior to the advent of the Benin people, Oga was the head of the establishment. He and Lasunwon lived in a hamlec called Agbele at the presence site of NITEL. Agbele was also called Egure and so Oga became the Elegure of Egure. Lasunwon was Odofin of Shagamu. But when the Binis came and Oga died.
Lasunwon was installed the first Oloja of Ikorodu by Olisa Rebugbawe, the first Olisa of Ikorodu.


3 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:12pm On Nov 19, 2017
baby124:

But you said the Lisa is an Oba? He is a king maker There is also a title of Lisa in Ogun state. Is he also Olisa or whatever rubbish you typed there? Are you crazy or what? This Lisa, Odofin and ko are family names in Ikorodu. They are not in any way related to Bini.

It appears you need more history lessons than I do grin
Lemme paraphrase it for you so you can make sense of the new info.

http://www.ayayogong.com.ng/2017/01/what-you-dont-know-about-history-of.html


This post was written by: Com. Folarin Adegboyega awal
Editor-In-Chief

The bolded is where the info you need is, read up and respond intelligently next time.



The history of Ikorodu is an history of people whose ancestors, according to available history, descended from the Remo stock of Yoruba tribe who came settle on a plateau and named it Ikorodu, a shortened word from-Oko Odu-which literally means Odu farm. Odu now in extinct vegetables specie used for cloth dying, grew luxuriantly on this plateau, hence the early settlers for want of a better name, found it convenient to name their new found settlement after this abundant vegetable.of

With time, Okorodu changed to Ikorodu. The fact of the history seems to tilt in favour of Oga as the founder of Ikorodu. This by extension, confirms the Remo link in the origin of Ikorodu. The males among the early settlers in Ikorodu had facial tribal marks found among the Remo. The late Oba Adenaike Alagbe had such tribal marks.

The new settlement in the heart of a massive forest was first used by the sons of Akarigbo, Koyelu of Orile Offin Shagamu-Oga, Lasuwon, Rademo, Anoko, Osonusi (alias Ogbonyari) Igimisoje, Otutubiosun, Kilaro, Oladepo and Seku made. The extended area now known as Ikorodu was used by these sons of Akarigbo of Ijebu-Remo for hunting and farming. As to the time of founding of the first settlement, we found it convenient to repeat ‘Igbogbo E Ko Do, KI Pakodo I do, KI Koodu I do.’

Soon after, some large contingent of Benin migrants came by land through Iki in Ogun state (where almost the whole land belongs to the Olisa family of Ikorodu) to the area now known as Ikorodu.



This group of Benin people was led by a wealthy and powerful man called Eregbouwa (now called Rebugbawa in Ikorodu) from the ancient royal family of Oliha of Benin City. In Benin language, Ere means king and Uwa means peace and prosperity, hence Eregbuwa mean king of peace and prosperity. The Benin people settled down amicably with the children of Akarigbo and the farm started to grow into a large settlement. This was about 1630.



The institution of Obaship was conceded to the line of Akarigbo while the institution of Olisaship was conceded to the Benin settlers.
In effect the Oba became the reigning monarch while the Olisa became the Kingmaker and the prima minister of the city-state.


This high position of the Olisa as the next in rank to the Oba in the city state was borne out in his attribute or cogno men in the Yoruba metaphor: AJUWE Akoye Orulu egbin o ru’lamuren a worun meaning – a noble gentlemen who administers the town. This of course, is done subject to the authority of the Oba and it presupposes that the cordiality between the Oba and the Olisa should be impenetrable. This was the tradition arrangement. The institutions and deities such as the Osugbo, the Awo Opa, the Inomu and the Eluku were designed for the good administration and peace of the town.

Prior to the advent of the Benin people, Oga was the head of the establishment. He and Lasunwon lived in a hamlec called Agbele at the presence site of NITEL. Agbele was also called Egure and so Oga became the Elegure of Egure. Lasunwon was Odofin of Shagamu. But when the Binis came and Oga died.
Lasunwon was installed the first Oloja of Ikorodu by Olisa Rebugbawe, the first Olisa of Ikorodu. grin
Lasuwon and Eregbouwa (Rebugbawe) were therefore the first Oloja (Oba) and the first Olisa of Ikorodu respectively. There are two Ruling Houses for the Obaship namely Lasunwon and Rademo Ruling Houses.

Traditionally Ikorodu is divided broadly into three for ease of representative democracy. These divisions are Ijomu, Aga, and Isele, which are represented, in Osugbo-the highest administrative organ in the town headed by the Olisa as chairman of Iwerefa (while Oluwo is administrative head). The smaller divisions called itun in the town are subsumed in the three major larger divisions.

With this arrangement, the emerging administrative structure of Ikorodu ensured that the Obaship and Olisaship belong to the two primordial families of Oba (Lasunwon and Rademo) and the Olisa respectively. They are traditional and hereditable titles.

As the settlement grew with influx of more migrants, city wall sprang up top provide buffer zones against intruders. The city wall which modernity had wiped out, ran through present day Ireshe road to Ota-ona, right through Eluku street/Alhaji street, to Owolowo street and back to Ireshe road. The near spherical settlement within the wall was the totality of the old Ikorodo.

The early town grew around a nucleus of settlement referred to as Itun, which covers a specific location with boundary. There is Itun layeodo, people by migrant from Ode-Remo, Itunsoku is said to be people by migrants from Isokun quarters in Shagamu; Itagbodo was originally peopled by settlers from Oke-Gbodo, Itun Elepe is said to be the quarter started by people of Elepe stock in Shagamu; Itunwaiye was originally the quarter of people from Iwaya in Ogun State; Itunsoku was originally peopled by migrants whose roots were traced to Isokun quarters in Shagamu; Itunojoru was the quarters people by migrant of Egba origin in Abeokuta. The cosmopolitan outlook of the emerging settlement became the catalyst for development. Apart from farming, the early settlers were astute traders, who developed coastal market at Ebute. The flourishing trade in cloth dying, fishing farm produce attracted traders from far-flung.

Religion: All the three main religions co-exists in Ikorodu. Ikorodu is very rich in culture and hospitable in nature. In 1892 Christianity made an advent into Ikorodu. Late chief Aina Odukanmade (the 1st Mosene) an Iwarefa and one of the most popular and wealthy chiefs with four others welcomed the early missionaries and hoisted the British flag on the soil of Ikorodu.

With the backing of the Oloja of Ikorodu, Aina Odubote, Balogun Jaiyesimi and Odukanmade the Lisa of Ikorodu, Christianity started on a good footing. The first church in Ikorodu was the C.M.S. Church, Obun Ale. When the building finally gave way to the evening market, it resurrected on its present location at Ijomu.

The coming of Islam to Ikorodu is not unconnected with the history of slavery in the West African sub-region. The year Samuel Ajayi Crowther regained his freedom from the bondage of slavery, marked a turning point in the history of Ikorodu. Alli who was one of the freed slaves brought the torch of Islam into Ikorodu. On account of his pioneering role in the propagation of Islam, Alli became the first chief Imam of Ikorodu. The first mosque erected in Ikorodu was located at Isele where it stands till today.

During the Agbala war between Ikorodu and the Egbas, Tairu a fiery soldier-scholar versed in the holy, Quran was invited by the people of Ikorodu through Alli Tairu succeeded Alias as chief Imam then.
The current Chief Imams of Ikorodu are
1. Chief Imam (Alhaji) Sayfiudeen Olowooribi, Grand Chief Imam, Ikorodu Division & Ikorodu Central Mosque
2. Chief Imam (Alhaji) Yahya Oshoala, Oriwu Central Mosque, Ikorodu

Traditional Rulers: By agreement between the two early settlers groups, the constitution of Olisa was conceded to the Benin side. Thus LASUNWON and EREGBOUWA (Rebuwgbawa) became the first Oba or Oloja and the first Olisa of Ikorodu respectively. This was about 1630.

Since its founding Ikorodu has been ruled by the Rademo and Lasunwon Royal Families. Following is the list of Obas of Ikorodu:[3]
TENURE INCUMBENT
? to ? Lasunwon (Oloja)
? to ? Rademo (Oloja)
? to ? Lugbekan (Oloja) (Lasunwon)
? to ? Dotelu (Oloja) (Lasunwon)
? to ? Kaalu (Oloja) (Lasunwon)
? to ? Oguntade I (Oloja) (Rademo)
? to ? Petu (Oloja) (Rademo)
? to ? Kuyinu (Oloja) (Rademo)
? to ? Ireshe (Oloja) (Lasunwon)
? to ? Idowu Alagbo (Oloja) (Rademo)
? to ? Odesanya (Oloja) (Lasunwon)
? to ? Orelaja (Oloja) (Rademo)
? to ? Ogunlaru (Oloja) (Lasunwon)
? to ? Aina Odubote (Oloja) (Rademo)
? to ? ARABA Odunjumo (Oloja) (Lasunwon)
1895 to 1928 OWUJEBE Ajayi (Oloja) (Lasunwon)
1929 to 1951 ALAGBE Adenaike (Oba), Adegorushen IV (Lasunwon)
1953 to 1970 LADEGA Samuel O. (Oba) (Lasunwon)
1971 to 2014 OYEFUSI Afolabi Salawu (Oba), Oguntade II (Rademo)
2015 to …. SHOTOBI Adewale Kabiru, (Oba), Adegorushen V (Lasunwon)

2 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 9:02pm On Nov 19, 2017
baby124:

But you said the Lisa is an Oba? He is a king maker There is also a title of Lisa in Ogun state. Is he also Olisa or whatever rubbish you typed there? Are you crazy or what? This Lisa, Odofin and ko are family names in Ikorodu. They are not in any way related to Bini.

Cmon stop it with the insults and discuss the topic if you can.
I did not author those articles. I am only here to learn and discuss.
If you can't deal with other's opinions and historical facts then I suggest you go play somewhere else.

I do not remember saying the Lisa was an Oba anywhere. Do you?
Meanwhile, you said this

baby124:

The Eko you are talking about does not include a lot of parts of Lagos Island not to talk of Ikorodu. You can write as many articles as you want, but we know our history and we know who is who. Even the British knew that there was more to the area known as Lagos State now than what we know today. They were simultaneously trading with many royal families.
Lisa of Ikorodu? Lol!!!! There is nothing like the Lisa of Ikorodu.
They went on exile to Epe because a lot of them had Epe ancestry as well, and Epe Oba's took them in rather than having them killed. Epe's are Ijebus, but you won't know that because you refuse to do your research before typing useless and stupid articles.

Are you sure you are from Lagos as you claim?

1 Like

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 8:59pm On Nov 19, 2017
laudate:


Don't mind him. undecided The history of Lagos as well as the parts of Lagos island that formed Isale-Eko or the old Lagos, is rather well-documented, both by the colonial masters, the Bini palace and the Lagos merchants of yore. He thinks that by cutting and pasting articles (some of whose contents even contradict his position), people will think of him as some kind of intellectual. Sorry, it hasn't worked! cheesy

Cutting and pasting articles I did not author does not count as references before a cheerleader undecided
Should I quote Julius Caesar or Mansa Musa then?
So in addition to being a pathetic cheerleader, you are also ignorant and daftgrin

Ok seems I can give you some lessons there, don't take my word for it, shebi you are the one speaking for the Edos right?
Here is your chance to take a stand and do a full spin for the Edos like the cheerleader you are cheesy grin

Hear it from the Iyase of Edo kingdom, Chief Sam Igbe

https://ihuanedo.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-origin-of-eko-lagos


OGBAKHA EDO
CHIEF SAM IGBE,
IYASE OF EDO KINGDOM
BENIN CITY
NIGERIA
TEL: 803 687 0037


The Origin of Eko (Lagos)



There is a lot of traditional history at both Benin and Lagos ends relating to the origin of what is now Lagos, its ruler and it's connection with Benin. But perhaps to avoid inadequacies and controversy which the academics claim surrounds traditional history, we may like to hear what some modern historians have to say on this subject. Robert S. Smith, in his book of some principal Yoruba owns, especially in and around Oyo, and the westward expansion in the 17th century of Benin Kingdom with it's number of subject towns on or near to the coast, which included Lagos, went on to say this about Lagos in particular:

"It's name reflect it's past to the Yoruba it's Eko, deriving probably from the farm (Oko) of the earliest settlers, though alternatively-or additionally-it may be the Benin word (Eko) for a war-camp...We say Eko is a Benin word that means camp"

After describing the activities of the armies of Benin under Oba Orhogbua, culminating in his arrival at what is now Lagos, Smith went on to add:

"Sometime later the Oba appointed a ruler for Lagos to represent the interest of Benin and to forward tribute there. The man chosen is named in both Lagos and Benin Tradition as Ashipa"

Smith says that by Lagos account this Ashipa was an Isheri Chief, while the Benin account says Ashipa was a grandson of the Oba of Benin. We shall come to this later. Smith was, however, satisfied that Benin had established it's ascendency in Lagos and had founded a dynasty there at some period before 1700.The dyansty's dependence on Benin, Smith found, was emphasized by the appointment of another Chief, the Eletu Odibo, who alone had the right to crown the Oba and who in early times probably maintained close connection with Benin,.(Eletu Odibo is a corruption of the Edo equivalent Olotu Odibo)

"G.T. Stride and C. Ifeka, in their book titled Peoples and empires pf West Africa have this to say on the same subject:

Oba Orhogbua was clearly a strong warrior for he enforced tribute payments from all parts of the empire and in the middle 1550s conquered all the coastal lands up to Lagos where he left a permanent garrison. Tradition in Lagos says that their first Oba, the Eleko of Eko, was a son of the Oba Orhogbua of Benin"

It will be seen, therefore, that even if we were to disregard traditional history there is enough material from modern historians to confirm the fact that what is now Lagos was founded by an Oba of Benin who also gave it it's first ruler. But we really cannot disregard traditional history. In Benin tradition, and we believe the same of Yoruba and other ethnic groups in this country, one way to establish that an event in traditional history did occur is by the type of anecdote or adage that evolves from that event . Thus, for instance, We Edo people say that "Orhogbua gb'Olague,ona y'ukpe abekpen z'umwen rie Edo, meaning that Oba Orhogbua defeated Olague and used sword to bring his salt to Benin, This is in allusion of to the exploits of Oba Orhogbua while in his camp (Eko) from where he over-ran the place known as Mahin with it's ruler whom the Benin People nicknamed Olague. There Orhogbua discovered the common rock salt and brought it to Benin who thereby tasted it for the first time.

Now the name "Ashipa has featured quite prominently (and rightly too) in the history of Lagos. After the Oba Orhogbua returned to Benin from Eko, he appointed a commander or an administrator, who was called Aisikpa to look after the skeleton troop left in the camp(Eko) until he returned again from Benin. He could no longer return having seen the situation at home. The name "Aisikpahienvoborre" which means "people do not desert their home-land. "This is how Aisikpa, whom the Yoruba now call Ashipa, came into the Lagos (Eko) history. Eko is still there as the traditional Benin name for Lagos; Ashipa has been retained as a senior traditional chieftaincy title while his descendants now retain the modern name of Oba of Lagos. The interaction of Edo people with others in distant lands must have inevitably resulted in cultural exchanges.


Excerpts From a Lecture on the Evolution of Traditional
rulership in Nigeria given under the auspices of the University of
Ibadan, Institute of African studies on 11th September,1984 by Omo
N'Oba N'Edo Uku Akpolokpolo Oba Erediauwa.

3 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 8:51pm On Nov 19, 2017
baby124:

The Eko you are talking about does not include a lot of parts of Lagos Island not to talk of Ikorodu. You can write as many articles as you want, but we know our history and we know who is who. Even the British knew that there was more to the area known as Lagos State now than what we know today. They were simultaneously trading with many royal families. Lisa of Ikorodu? Lol!!!! There is nothing like the Lisa of Ikorodu. They went on exile to Epe because a lot of them had Epe ancestry as well, and Epe Oba's took them in rather than having them killed. Epe's are Ijebus, but you won't know that because you refuse to do your research before typing useless and stupid articles.

Typical Nigerian yoot grin
Haba! Attack the message and not the messenger nau grin
You actually need history lessons. Here is some for you:


The kingmakers in Ikorodu are made up of Lisa, Odofin, Solomade, Oponua, Apena, Oluwo, Losi and Aro. These high chiefs are also in charge of traditional rites in the land. But Vanguard Features, VF, gathered that Aro and Losi also joined their ancestors after the demise of Oba Oyefusi,

Read more at: https://www.vanguardngr.com/2015/06/ikorodu-stool-when-intrigues-controversies-tradition-define-succession-to-the-throne/


n 1892 Christianity made an advent into Ikorodu. Late chief Aina Odukanmade (the 1st Mosene) an Iwarefa and one of the most popular and wealthy chiefs with four others welcomed the early missionaries and hoisted the British flag on the soil of Ikorodu. With the backing of the Oloja of Ikorodu, Aina Odubote, Balogun Jaiyesimi and Odukanmade the Lisa of Ikorodu, Christianity started on a good footing. The first church in Ikorodu was the C.M.S. Church, Obun Ale. When the building finally gave way to the evening market, it resurrected on its present location at Ijomu.

http://www.ikoroduoga.net/index.php/component/content/category/12-history

2 Likes

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 8:47pm On Nov 19, 2017


At this juncture it is necessary for us to do a reconnaissance of the factors that made the Esans generally and Uromi specifically fraternal partners in the Edo imperial military and economic paraphernalia. Monarchy was instituted in Esanland in the fifteenth century by Oba Ewuare of Benin. From the colonial British Intelligence Report on the Esans we have the following:“The name Ishan is a corruption of a Benin word ESAN FUA meaning those who 'Jumped or fled". The word "Esan" was used to describe the inhabitants of the district now forming Ishan during the reign of Oba Ewuare of Benin. Before this period the large groups such as Irrua, Uromi, Ekpoma and Ubiaja were known by their individual names and there was no common name. Oba Ewuare, enraged by the sudden death of his two sons supposedly brought about by the wicked machinations of his brother, the Edaiken, enacted very obnoxious laws forbidding:

(a) sexual intercourse in the land

(b) washing, sweeping of the houses or compounds, drumming and dancing

(c) and the making of fire in the land.

These laws which were made to operate for about three years were to be observed as a mark of respect for the departed sons of the Oba. The hardship and disease that followed on the heels of these laws caused many people to leave Benin and when the Oba summoned a meeting of the various quarters he was told that many people had fled.”

Before this mass exodus from Biniland in the era of Oba Ewuare to Esanland, there were many other earlier mass exodus to Esanland from Biniland. A very well celebrated earlier immigration to Esanland from Biniland was the immigration of the Princes who were children of a Bini Ogiso. They were alleged to have fled with their mother. The eldest brother settled in Uzea. The second brother settled in Uromi and the youngest brother settled in Afemai. Till this day, an Uzea man is always given the honor of breaking the kolanut at ceremonies and events in Uromi, in honor of the elder Prince who settled in Uzea. It is interesting to observe that based on the composition of Uromi, which is also a reflection of many other Esan towns, not every group in Esan immigrated from Biniland.

The fact that every town in Esan speaks a different dialect of Esan and not a uniform Bini dialect, confirms the contention that there were people already occupying the various Esan towns before the arrival of the immigrants from Bini and other places. Evidence of immigration to Uromi from outside Biniland are numerous i.e Idumeka Uromi from Ika, Idisaba Uromi from Asaba, beside many other groups. Immigrants from Biniland to Uromi are overwhelming, among them are the following groups Idumu Oshodi, Idumu Uwangue, Idumu Oza, Idumu Oniha, Idumu Esodole, Idigun Amendokhian all from Biniland. We must recognize that the three brothers that founded Idumu Oniha-Efandion, Idumu Esodole-Utako, Idi Igun – Amendokhian originally immigrated from Biniland to Ewohimi and later departed from Ewohimi to Uromi over disagreement with the King of Ewohimi over the terms of their indigenization in Ewohimi. Idi-Ijie people are descendants of a celebrated traditional medicinal doctor from Udo town in Esanland to Uromi.

Against the above background, it is interesting to observe that the people who were living in the various Esan towns were not recorded to have objected to Oba Ewuare’s introduction of monarchy to Esanland in the 15th century. Before the introduction of monarchy by Oba Ewuare, the various Esan towns were run under a system that was an amalgam of gerontocracy, spirituality and parliamentarianism. This system was known as the Edion (Elders) system. The acceptance of monarchy by the Esan people, however, confirms that Esan towns were already hosting a huge Bini population at the time of Oba Ewuare. It is believed that only Benin Princes were appointed as Onogies (Kings) by Bini Obas. This is the basis of the belief that all the Esan Kings were the oldest Bini Princes in the various Esan towns at the time Oba Ewuare introduced monarchy to Esanland.

The Uromi monarchy has some unique features. Uromi came with special filial, economic, military and human resource assets that specially and uniquely carved Uromi out as the most desired ancient Edo city state to partner with the ancient Bini city state pursuant to the execution of the Eko (Lagos) project. In Chief Anthony Enahoro’s book, THE FUGITIVE OFFENDER, he talked about the Portuguese wife of a past Ogiso. (Historians trace the event to the era of Oba Ewuare) who gave birth to a half white half black son for Oba Ewuare. This son would have been Oba Ewuare’s successor as he was the Oba’s first male child. However, the people of Bini were not ready to accept a white woman as the Obas’s first wife or even as a member of the Oba’s harem. The people were also not ready to accept the mixed race son as the Oba’s heir apparent. Oba Ewuare had to find an alternative place for the son and the Portuguese mother. Uromi was chosen for the mother and the son to relocate to. The choice of Uromi as the choice place for the son who would have been King over the Bini people to relocate to, speaks volumes. The choice of Uromi means Uromi was an urban center by the standard of that era, such as would comfort and pacify the son who would have been the King of the Binis. The choice of Uromi also confirms the fact that Uromi already had a sizable Portuguese population at the time of Oba Ewuare. The Oba’s son and his Portuguese mother would be at home in a place, where there was a sizable Portuguese population to feel at home. The Portuguese cotton traders who come to buy cotton and cotton based textiles among other economic products from the Esans were referred to by the Esan and by implication, Uromi natives as (kpotokins). It would appear that these Portuguese traders were residing in Uromi among other early European traders, especially the Dutch that overthrew the Portuguese as Edos largest European trading partners.

The main export commodity that attracted the European traders among other international traders to Esan in the 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th centuries was the booming Esan cotton economy. The cotton economy was known by the Esans as EKIOLU or alternatively as AKIOLU. Yes, same as the AKIOLU in OBA AKIOLU of LAGOS. As recorded by early European historians Uromi and Uzea were the leaders in the international Esan cotton trade and Uromi and Uzea women were the leaders in the Esan cotton textile trade. Uromi’s very advanced and very prosperous cotton and textile industries predicated the Benin-Uromi / Uzea war of 1499-1506. It is believed that Oba Ozolua, who was the son that succeeded Oba Ewuare wanted to directly control the Uromi economy. King Agba who was Oba Ewuare’s grandson and the son of Onojie Ijesan, the half Portuguese half Bini eldest son of Oba Ewuare, who was compensated with the Kingship of Uromi, for Oba Ewuare’s inability to convince the Bini’s to accept a mixed race son; did not only refuse to surrender the Uromi booming cotton economy to Oba Ozolua, but also stopped paying tributes to Benin and advised all other Esan kings to stop paying tributes to the Oba of Benin, Ozolua. It is said that Uromi women started mocking the Esan kings who were still paying tributes to Oba Ozolua. Uzea town that is regarded as Uromi’s traditional elder brother backed Uromi up. Thus the stage was set for the 1499-1506 Benin - Uromi / Uzea war

It would appear that Esan prosperity from the Cotton, Textile and Pepper economy lasted for very many centuries. With the prominence of Esan names like AKIOLU as in OBA AKIOLU [AKI / EKI (MARKET) OLU (COTTON) in ESAN EDO)] in Eko / Lagos, it would appear that money from the Esan Cotton, Textile and Pepper economy helped largely to finance the expansion of the Edo Empire, and helped specifically to finance the founding of EKO/LAGOS by the Edo imperialist army. Yes, profits from the highly prized international Esan cotton trade helped to finance the acquisition of arms, ammunitions and other military paraphernalia for the Esan Edo army.

In the book, “When Men and Women Mattered: A History of Gender Relations among the Owan of Nigeria by Onaiwu W. Ogbomo, we have the following “Okoduwa’s research among the neighbouring Esan reveals they also capitalized on the trade in cloth. In Okoduwa’s words: There are hint’s in the traditions of Uromi that Ichesan [IJESAN] and Agba’s reigns and those which followed (Ca. 1439-1538) was the century of trade and prosperity. This was the era when benefits from the cotton trade and industry led to the emergence of merchant princes in Uromi.”

It is manifestly self evident from the above that the Esan cotton and textile industries brought tremendous wealth to Esanland and Uromi occupied the leadership seat in this regard. The piece reproduced below makes clear that the wealth introduced by the successful cotton and textile industries was long lasting. To a great extent the wealth from the cotton and textile industries funded the expansion of the Edo Empire. Ijesan, the first King of Uromi was the first son of Oba Ewuare, who could not be king in Benin as the Binis were not ready for a half Portuguese and half Bini king. Ijesan became the king of Uromi since consequent to the cotton export trade, Uromi already had a very large European population at the time, and the Uromi people were comfortable with Ijesan and his Portuguese mother. This Portuguese connection and the wealth available from the cotton trade made Uromi a major asset in the Edo and Portuguese aided imperialist military campaigns. It is important to recall here that historians recorded that Portuguese soldiers fought alongside Bini soldiers during the Bini-Idah war. The ancient German Surgeon Joshua Ulsharmer also recorded that himself and his co-travellers also fought alongside Edo soldiers as the Edos were actively executing their empire building mission in all that area now known as Lagos state and beyond along the West Coast of Africa.

A. I. Okoduwa and A. O. Odigie In their work: British Attempt at Developing Cotton as an Export Crop from Esan, Edo State, Nigeria, 1902-1925 wrote: “However, it must be said that since major spinning, weaving and cloth dying centres existed in Uromi (as in other parts of West Africa like Kano, Biu, Etsako, Nupe and Idah to mention but a few) what raw cotton found its way into the export market from the 15th century to the 19th century was the surplus production which could not be absorbed by West African industries (Nzemeke, 1985, p. 3) ”

“Esan sales were in cowries. Prices of cloth varied over the years. Ryder says that Dutch and English alike bought them in thousands for resale in other parts of the African coast in return for slaves and gold. Although several goods served the purpose of money in a non-common currency economy, Esan cloth known by the Portuguese and the Dutch as the Benin cloth had the advantage of a currency being comparatively a non-perishable commodity that was easily stored (Ryder, 1969, p. 206).”

Uromi was the largest town in pre-colonial Esan and remain the largest Esan town. Uromi’s large population evidently derives from Uromi’s attraction as an Eldorado for wealth seekers. As a major trading center with an early attraction for Portuguese (known in Uromi as Kpotokins) and the Dutch and other Europeans and Arabs, Uromi became a major attraction for immigrants seeking wealth, freedom, dignified existence, military protection and political freedom.

During Oba Ovoramwen’s reign, he elevated Irrua to the position of the primus inter pares (First among equals) in Esanland. The popular opinion in Uromi, which exists till this day, is that Oba Ovoramwen’s elevation of Irrua was a calculated military move to help keep the very militarily powerful and cotton and textile industries profits empowered King Okolo of Uromi under check. This view seemed to have been confirmed by the fact that the British army methodically picked out only Uromi, Uzea and Igarra as the towns to attack after the fall of Benin. After the fall of the administrative headquarters of the ancient Edo Empire, Benin City, the British authorities initially thought that the Edo Empire, which they had erroneously limited to Bini Kingdom, had been effectively put under control. Based on the erroneous assumption that the fall of Benin automatically translate to the fall of the already waning Edo Empire; Britain attempted to enforce its dominion over Edo land. The British authorities quickly realized that until and unless Esan land was demilitarized, the fall of Benin would not translate to a conquest of the Edo Empire. Yes, at the time Benin fell, the Edo Empire was already in her twilight years. The glory days of the zenith of Edo Empire’s military might were in the 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th centuries.

Intelligence gathered by the British authorities convinced the Brits that Uromi and Uzea towns were the two major military forts in Esan land that must be taken down, to effectively bring Esanland under control. In an effort to take down Uromi and Uzea, the British Empire authorities sent a contingent of army officers from England and Canada and infantrymen from Northern Nigeria to war against Esanland especially Uromi and Uzea in 1901. The leader of the British war party to Uromi was Captain Honecker, later known as General Honecker.

There were evidently many reasons while the Britain determined that it was imperative and incumbent on the British imperial army to demilitarize Uromi and Uzea, which by the calculation of the British means the demilitarization of the Esans. One thing is clear, the British military encroachment on Uromi confirms that Uromi was recognized by the British intelligence authorities as an integral and fundamental military bedrock of the Edo imperial war machine. The British authorities figured out that with Uromi, Uzea and Igarra which was also attacked; left heavily militarized, the Benin leadership could regroup.

There is evidence that the British Parliament voted to encourage the production of cotton in Esanland in the early 20th century: A. I. Okoduwa and A. O. Odigie In their work: British Attempt at Developing Cotton as an Export Crop from Esan, Edo State, Nigeria, 1902-1925 wrote: “The promotion of cotton growing in Esan during the colonial period and in the Benin Province, was undertaken by the British Cotton Growing Association (BCGA). It was founded in 1902 for the main purpose of ensuring the continued prosperity of British cotton industry by extending the sources of supply to overseas territories (Anjorin, 1988, p. 122). In collaboration with British colonial government, the BCGA sent out cotton experts to develop cultivation of the crop in Ishan Division. The first cotton experimental farm and ginnery in the area was established at Illushi the evacuation port for all produce from Esan (Osagie, 1988, p.76). From there colonial officials spread the new varieties of American and Egyptian long staples to all parts of Esan. For example, when Mr. W. Fosbery the then commissioner of the Central Division of British Southern Nigeria undertook a visit to Uromi in 1902, he emphasized the importance of cotton growing and distributed three bags of American cotton seeds to the people (Anene, 1966, p. 239).

It is self evident from all the combined references above that cotton cultivation, textile production, marketing and export thereof, brought much wealth to Esanland. The prosperity from the Esan cotton economy attracted the attention of the Benin monarchy and much later the British imperial power. Wealth from the pre-colonial Esan cotton economy helped equipped the Esan army and to a very large extent, and based on the extensive evidence of Esan military presence in pre-colonial Lagos helped in financing the building the foundation of all that area known today as Lagos state, and other locations along the West Coast of Africa. The name of the current Oba of Lagos, Oba Akiolu (Which means Cotton economy in Esan Edo) attests to the fact that wealth from the pre-colonial Esan cotton economy was the financial predicate on which modern Lagos / Eko was built.

The names Oyekan (Oyeko –Which means one who travelled to Lagos in Esan Edo) as in Oba Oyekan, Eyo (from Eyo-Okulo - Which means soldier in Esan Edo) and Akiolu –Aki/Eki-Olu as in Oba Akiolu, Which means Cotton economy in Esan Edo) and even Tinubu which appears to be an Islamized version of Usunobun, which denotes the first child many prospective children and denoting leader or one with many followers, and the names Esan, Ojomon, Obadan, Oko-Uromun used in Lagos / Eko and other Edoid yorubaland attests to the fact that descendants of Esan Edo soldiers remain and live in Eko and Edoid Yorubaland.

It is time for Historians and non historians alike, especially Edo folks to begin to research and document the forgotten histories and activities of the Edo Empire era. The Romans were all over ancient Western Europe, even up to North Africa and the whole story is accurately documented. Unfortunately, not much has been done in the area of researching and accurately telling and or documenting the story of Edo civilization vis a vis seaports and inland ports that were built by the Edos in conjunction with the Portuguese, which said ports have now blown into mega cities in many parts of West Africa. Untold number of Edo men and women travelled to distant places during the era of the Edo Empire for state security assignments and major state projects, and the efforts of those Edo heroes have been largely ignored by Historians.

Names of places and words still used in many places once ruled by the Edos, are still reminders of the Edo presence and activities in such far flung places. Among the Ewe people who live in Benin Republic, Togo and Ghana, the word for COME is VAE. When an Ewe person is speaking, you would think the speaker is speaking Esan.

In Uromi, Esan, Edo, which was one of the largest military forts in the defunct Edo Empire, the word for COME is VAE. In Onitsha, where the Edo system of government is still being practiced by the traditional government of Onitsha, with Edo titles like Iyasele and Ozodi (Oshodi), the word for mother is NNE and in Uromi, the word for mother is INE. In Esanland, a young man is called OKOLO/OKOH. In Onitsha and environs a young man is called OKORO. The name OKORO has now become very well established in Iboland that it is difficult to tell whether OKORO is a variation of the Esan Edo OKOLO introduced by Esan Edo soldiers to Onitsha or it is a name inherently germane to the Igbo language. In Uromi, Esan, Edo, the children of a deceased person whose life is being celebrated are hailed with OMAE TEGHENE. In Onitsha, the children of a deceased person whose life is being celebrated are hailed with OMA TEGETE.

In 1925, Elder Dempster Lines, which was Great Britain’s largest and most globally recognized and celebrated sea transportation company during the colonial era, named a Ship Uromi SS, in recognition of the prominent role played by the Esans in pre-colonial and colonial Nigerian political, military and economic activities. Uromi SS had 2 triple expansion engines. Uromi SS was formerly known as Kinshasha SS. The Uromi SS was a British cargo steamer of 962 grt. The Ship was built in 1909 and was scuttled in 1936 off the coast of Lagos.

The facts that I have highlighted in this piece are thinking points for professional historians to take to the next level via research using modern tools of historical research.

Written by ANTHONY OKOSUN TonyOsun@yahoo.co.uk

Culture / Re: Bini Are Original Owners Of Lagos, Not Yoruba – Layi Ajayi-Bembe by PabloAfricanus(m): 8:46pm On Nov 19, 2017
I think the author is overdoing the linguistics with all that similarity and matching grin
Onikoyi is an Oyo title and does not mean a camp of thieves shocked
But his story sounds interesting and contains historical nuggest none the less..



Agbele and Egure in the excerpt are evidently corrupted versions of EGBELE and EGUARE. Egbele is in Uromi. Egbele is the first and most senior village in Uromi. Eguare is the Palacde or the Quarters where the Palace of the King is located. The presence of Egbele is an indication that UROMI soldiers and probably Uromi soldiers, specifically from ancient Egbele Uromi were located by Emperor Orhogbua to hold forte in Ikorodu. EGUARE indicates that an Edo indigene and probably an Esan Edo based on the version of EGUARE in contra-distinction to IGUA was appointed King by Emperor Orhogbua over Ikorodu.

OLIHA is Benin however, the job of serving as regent after the death of the king reflects the system in UROMI arrangement where the ONIHA (OLIHA) serves as regent after the death of the King pending the installation of a new King. We must realize that the true pronunciations of these names now found on the website cannot be verified as they were only orally relayed for hundreds of years by people who are or were descendants of the original speakers of the Edo language (Esan/Bini/Afemai dialects), but who themselves have no knowledge of the Edo language.

Based on similar corruption of Esan Edo names found in other ancient historical accounts, one can safely conclude that the following names IJOMU, AGA, ISELE found in the excerpt culled from the Ikorodu Association website are corrupted versions UROMI (IJOMU), AGA means QUARTER or (AGBA) (AGA) and ESAN (ISAN) (ISALE) (ISELE)

The name IKORODU appears to be an evolved form of EKO-OHORDUA. We have seen a pattern like in IKOYI, where E in EKO-OYI (Prison) was replaced with I. Thus the first I in IKORODU is likely an E. That would make IKORODU EKO-(OHORDUA). OHORDUA is the Esan town with a name that is closest to what is left after EKO or IKO is pulled apart. Edo historical accounts identify OHORDUA and EWOHIMI as very powerful military forts of the Edo kingdom during the era of the Edo Empire. As the name of the town became IKORODU or EKO OHORDUA, one can conclude that Edo soldiers from OHORDUA and possibly soldiers from neighboring EWOHIMI, EWATTO, EWOSSA, EWOIKI, who were possibly later arrivals were stationed in this location in very large numbers, which should explain the emergence and dominance of the name EKO-OHORDUA over the town.

From the same website IKORODU OGA ASSOCIATION, UK chapter, but under the piece captioned HISTORICAL FACTS, we have the following important fact: “ETI-OSA Local Council was separated from Ikorodu District Council in 1972.” ETI-OSA means BY THE POWER OF GOD is BINI EDO.

KIRIKIRI appears to have originated from the ESAN EDO onomatopoeia IKHIRI-KHIRI, which is descriptive of military of aggressive or forceful activities.

ODIBO which is title of a palace official in Lagos is same as the ODIBO found in every Edo palace. The title means the Kings Personal Assistant.

The surnames ESAN and OKOUROMUN which are popular in all the Yoruba towns and cities once ruled by the Edos means native of Esan and son of Uromi respectively. These names indicates that the descendants of Esan Edo soldiers remain in places that the Edos once occupied; Lagos inclusive.

OYEKAN is a corruption of OYEKO, meaning, one who travelled to Lagos. A child born to an Esan Edo soldier on a military mission in Lagos could be named OYEKO. The name is an Esan Edo equivalent of the Yoruba Tokunbo.

TINUBU is a likely Islamized version of USUNUBUN; literally meaning, the first child in a line of potentially many children. The name connotes one who is born to be a leaders or one born to have many followers.

The later day Yorubanization of Esan Edo names in Lagos is as a result of the latter day domination of Lagos by Yoruba speakers. Many of the names of places and persons that date back to the era of the founding of Lagos are only meaningful and reasonable when reversed back to Esan Edo. At the time of the founding of Lagos, much of Yorubaland was under the Oyo Empire. Back then, folks were not travelling freely because of the fear of Arab and European slave traders.

Another version of the founding of Lagos that claimed that the High Priest of Alua Agba was an Ijesha man is not logical nor reasonable. The CHIEF PRIEST OF ALUA-AGBA at the very time the Edos founded Lagos could not have been an Ijesha man. Re-writing history and stating that the Chief Priest of ALUA AGBA was an Ijesha man at the very time Lagos was founded, would be tantamount to saying that the Chief Chaplain of the American military in Afghanistan is a Pakistani or an Iranian. That could not have happened then for obvious reasons; just as it cannot happen now for obvious national security reasons.

If the Chief Priest of ALUA-AGBA back then when the UROMIRES (UROMI IMMIGRANTS) (Yorubanized to AROMIRES) as part of the Esan military contingent invited by Oba Orhogbua to help secure Lagos Island and build a trading port in partnership with the Portuguese, had only just landed and battling enemy combatants and securing their ESALE EKO (CAMP OF THE ESANS) and breaking up the land into IDUMUS, IDIS AND IDUS (Esan Edo for Quarters or territorial sub-division); the last thing that could occur then would be for anybody not directly from Uromi to be the Chief Priest of Alua-Agba. ALUA-AGBA is unique to Uromi.

Based on the writings of early European visitors to Lagos i.e the ancient German Surgeon Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer, after his 1603 visit to Lagos, and the admission of the Lagos state government on its website that the Edos founded Lagos; and the fact that these authorities are unanimous in their narratives that Lagos Island was a virgin land before the arrival of the Edos; it is safe, accurate and a statement of fact, to state that the people who came from Esan Edo to de-forest and help build a military camp and trade port on Lagos Island, announced their presence by identifying themselves as UROMIRE (Uromi immigrants) , later yorubanized to AROMIRE. We must realize that the Yorubas were not part of early Lagos. At the time Lagos was founded, the Yorubas were in Oyo kingdom.

The palace of the new king was called Egua (Palace in Esan Edo) later yorubanized to Iga. Some popular and celebrated names in early Eko i.e AKINSEMONYIN is a likely yorubanization of AKHISEMONJIE (You don't provoke the King's wrath or You do not challenge the King’s word)) ICHOKUN could be a yorubanization of Izokun meaning (I have chosen to Okun (god)



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