MrPresident1:


Bros, you have summarized it all. There is no common rallying point in the south, that critical zone of continuity where we all can converge and see reason is just not there, unlike in the north where they have the Hausa language and the Islamic religion.
Fulanis like the Somalis, are a learned, proud and warlike people, and a people with deep and longstanding heritage. They are not lost people per se. They are the owners of Nigeria, and until there is that point of convergence in the south, they will continue to rule us. Of course with their knowledge of subterfuge and divide-and-rule, give the Yoruba man plenty amala for jollyment, give the Igbo man big title and let him be a bit above his people, and all forms of rally dissipates.

We are back to the past bro. Smh.

I think the Yoruba race should forever be grateful to the warriors of Ibadan who stopped them at Osogbo in the 1800s, if not? hehehe, we for don hear am.

@bolded I would say political masters of Nigeria.
If you had said the British effectively handed over the military and numerical strength at the center to them...I'd agree.
The real secret of the Fulanis is their adoption of anything Hausa.
The Hausa language, Hausa lifestyle, Hausa kingdoms and states.
Infact few people in the South have no clue as to who the Hausas really are.
For some funny reason, the Hausas in Kano,Kaduna, Zamfara and the rest of the old cities seem to find Fulani rulership cool...can't figure it out.
If Kano were to be Igbo,I bet the typical Igbo man won't find it funny that their royal family is not even Igbo to being with!
Even the Yorubas in Ilorin still have their unspoken resistance to Fulani hegemony.
They whole Islamic emirate thingy is seen by the Hausas as divine and a part of their heritage.
I think its the day the REAL HAUSA peoples stand up to reclaim their ancient thrones and heritage, that we'll see
the Fulanis for what they really are. A hard, militaristic wandering nomads who have perfected the art of usurpation and conquest.
But you have to give them that respect...its no small feat to usurp Gwandu, Kano,Kaduna, Adamawa and all the old emirates.
I really admire their political astuteness.

As for the Igbos and Yorubas...they are still learners.
Shortsighted thinking, lack of long term political strategy, tribalistic emotions and lack of exposure to "advanced" politics remains
their greatest challenge.

hansad:
Selfish Pursuits - all of them:

Baba Awolowo was promised by Fulani that he would succeed Yakubu Gowon. For that, Baba Awo advised Yakubu Gowon to jettison the Accord made in Aburi which was agreed upon by Nigeria and the rebel Eastern region in the presence of Internationale mediators.
The result was a nasty civil war that claimed nearly 2 million innocent lives, mostly children.

The kernel of the Aburi Accord was reintroduction of Regional government system with fiscal federalism.

Unarguably, the Southwest region, and indeed all parts of Nigeria, should have advanced by far with development, more than what they are today, if Aburi Accord was honoured.

Not just Awo, but Ayida and all the civil service and foreign service crew still cringing from the cold blooded murders of January 1966.
Awo with the benefit of hindsight was relatively naive and a bit blinded by his unapologetic tribal politics.
The Igbos were more than willing to have a working relationship with the Yorubas...as most of the Igbo nationalist leaders
had Yoruba leanings, spoke Yoruba or lived and schooled in then Western Region.
I think the Yoruba leaders generally did not like the domineering and pushy attitudes of the Igbos.
The Igbos undoing was their lack of political and diplomatic experience...plus not factoring in London's response
to the deaths of Ahmadu Bello, Tafawa Balewa and the rest.
If Awo had chosen the path of secession, there was nothing stopping the Westerners from forcing
the remaining Northern soldiers out of their region.
By the time of the Aburi meetings, majority of soldiers in the divisions had been relocated to their various regions.
It was an opportunity passed on.
The then Western region would have been had a chance of being a model of an organized African country.

Gowon was used, Awo was used both by the British and the Fulanis and they never realized it.
They were rather tolerated by the oligarchs.
As I have commented earlier, the Yorubas played a game of convenience...it was what it was.
But the real masterminds were not even Fulanis or Yorubas...the stakeholders were the old colonialists in London.
Nigeria was likely their checkmate to any oil production instability in the Arabian gulf and elsewhere they had planted puppet rulers.
Even the Soviets and France had to back down on Biafran support when they realized what the game was all about.

The British had decided that only the Hausa/Fulani sufficiently had the political, cultural and military experience to
secure their investments in their former colony.
The Igbos proved too smart and headstrong to play "civilized" politics with.
The Yorubas typically thrived in chaos and educated tribalism...not enough to handle international politics.
The other minorities were just not visible enough.

The only anti-dote to the Fulani (not Hausa/Fulani as some suppose) hegemony while Nigerian remains a nation is the Orkar formula.
Or a complete dismantling of Ironsi's unitary style of govt and a return to the former regions.
Unfortunately the strategic positioning of allies across all ethnic groups by the Fulani would have to be broken first.

My not necessarily correct opinion.

Rossikk:
PhysicsMHD said



I'm quite frankly sick of people like you who come here to regurgitate western fantasies borne of their racist agenda. You're just here mouthing rubbish about things you know nothing. Virtually EVERY Ancient Egyptian tradition remains in existence in West and Central Africa till date, indicating 100% cultural continuity between the Nile Valley civilizations and its African offshoots. Go and read Olumide Lucas, and some other modern AFRICAN authors who know Egypt, like Cheikh Anta Diop, instead of wasting your time studying compromised western 'Egyptologists' who are mainly paid-up propagandists there to tell us that Egypt was not African to suit their racial agenda.

Now, even when we clearly see BLACK AFRICANS on the artefacts and so on, YOU still come here to try to tell us that they are 'not really African'. Why don't you take your Uncle Tom self and go on some western forum and try convincing them that the Greeks 'had nothing culturally to do with Europe' and see how they'll respond to you, yet you think you can come here to mouth such ignorant garbage in relation to Africa?

Excerpts from Olumide Lucas' The Religion of the Yorubas showing unmistakeable racial and cultural connections to Egypt.

http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2139

Rossikk
Interesting thread.
Funny that Africans have to rely on excavatory work and history done by the whites to even discuss events that happened in Africa!
The challenge I have always posed to a lot of misguided "afrocentrists" is :
(1) identify your tribe/ethnic group
(2) give me the "oral history" or "written history" of "ancient Egypt" amongst your people

Few have any clue as to how to go about answering that question.
Similarities in "pronounciations" and phonemes has largely been proven to be the bedrock of speculative conjectures.
With any sufficient degree of imagination, similarities could be found between Japanese and any African tongue!
Maybe advances in genetics will help us unravel ancient history and identities.

The last word on the real identity of the peoples who lived in ancient Egypt, North Africa and the Mediterranean is not out...yet.
Pity africans south of the sahara were not invested in historical record keeping.
And the Arabs and Europeans are still in for the shocker of their lives...when they discover what melanin really is.

@bolded...I'm interested.
Which Ancient Egyptian traditions remain in existence in West and Central Africa till date?
I really want to know.

Shymm3x:
@PabloAfricanus

I agree with some of your points. However, it seems you're avoiding white privilege/supremacy and institutionalised racism. Also, you haven't touched on the systematic way in which white imperialism underdeveloped Africa...and the generational effects of colonialism/slavery on black people.

You can't really separate the effects of African people's dark history from who they're today. Then when you look at the African school system, which is more or less the colonial, with lack of history - and the mentality of the people, it's somewhat difficult to separate the two. You have folks with no sense of history who are educated from birth to feel inferior - the psychological effect is what's being played out on the continent. George Orwell said, "Who controls the present controls the past controls the past controls the future." And when folks dwell in a past, written by their conquerors, how do you expect them to have a future? The effects are evident everywhere, hence while other races of people are thinking big and innovating ground-breaking projects, African people are comfortable with being appendages to other people, and they have to be spoon-fed like kids all the time. And that's the reason why we're always perpetually celebrating mediocrity and lack of achievement.

Then when you look at the harm foreign religions have done to the psyche of the people...you'll see that it's bigger than us. And you have got folks worshipping the images of other people. Anyway, I'll leave you with a quote from Dr. Leonard Jeffries: "Whoever controls the images, controls your self-esteem, self-respect and self-development. Whoever controls the history, controls the vision."

On the contrary, I think emphasizing the sordid history of white colonialism in Africa is just a big pity party.
The only requirement IMO is NEVER TO FORGET...the history should never be lost.
Our present and future generations should learn that history as a justification for their relentless vigilance.
That the white man took advantage of our ignorance and weakness, exploited our lands and labour, enslaved us
and generally did so many bad things to us is true. Now that we all agree to that...then what?
So do you want to do something about it?
Are you satisfied with the outcomes of all that has transpired in the past?
Who will give you a redress if you decide to claim damages?
Who will give you justice?
What are you going to do when next the big bully comes around?

The horror of the Belgian Congo colonialization will never be fully known to those who never witnessed it.
And mind you the brutality and inhumanity of the whites were carried out not only in Africa.
Google "holomodor" to read about the starvation of the Ukrainians by the Soviets.
Google the "great famine" in India of 1876-1878 where 6.3 million died. Find out how many Indians were
enslaved and forcefully taken to foreign lands as "indentured slaves".
These were a people who had it all...empires, armies, sciences, learning, far older culture and civilization than the whites.
Yet they were subjugated.
The ugly truth is that the whites had spent more time and resources acquiring the needed knowledge
and technology to exploit and rule the world.
You can either challenge them successfully or fall in line.

My point?
History does not issue apologies.
You have to get up and get justice, freedom or what ever it is that you want.
No matter how long we gloat and hate the whites, the past will never be rectified.
The exile of Ovamronwen to Calabar will never be corrected.
The forced abdication of all our chiefs and kings will never be corrected.
All the wrongs and ills of the past are what they are.
So no need to live in the past, it is the lessons from the past that count.
It is the present that we must deal with and plan unemotionally for the future.

I call on you to realize you have the power within you to DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.
Realize you can conceptualize and materialize any venture-whether political,scientific or economic.
You do not NEED THE APPROVAL OR SUPPORT of the WHITE MAN.
The great challenge is to be strong enough to do what you want to do.
Are you strong enough? Or do you want to continue pointing fingers while masking your inability to challenge incursions on
your liberty and freedom?

Finally IMO,All the black people need to do...is to AGREE ON WHAT THEY WANT, and map out a flexible strategy for accomplishing that.
That is the solution I am convinced will work...with the knowledge I have now.

My opinions.

gatiano:
NOI is not under any white control, Nigeria and most countries of Africa are the subsidiaries of the British and American corporation.

You have not even scratched the surface. Like i said, what most black people want is integration. and It won't happen. They are best to get into their own.

Its either I dont get what you're talking about or you are discussing something entirely different from the thread.
Sorry bro...no offence or intention to insult...but this topic is way beyond you.
I will reply when you address the topic of discussion.
Cheers.

gatiano:

I understand everything that you wrote, It is logical, and infact what Man should do for his own development. But not wise enough, Why do I say so? It is because You have not considered the character of your opponent, you do not know or understand their moves.

In a war time, A People must understand the principal objectives and aims of their opponent or opponents, without that, The people may win most of the battle and yet loose the war against a weak opponent. This was the case of whites and non-black invading the Black people of the earth. They could never stand us in any war, but they knew and understood their aims and objectives. So they'd come in peacefully in submission, Before they entered mainland Africa, They had done this with the Black people in the Northeast Africa (middle east), They did the same to the Blacks in India who were the original settlers, Everywhere they went, we were already there, They have through the indian ocean entered the south of the African continent (persians). What they learnt is where our strength and power came from, It came from our Elders. Our Elders set the law and rules of the land. All White and non-black did was to create a friction between the youth and the Elders. It worked, Our Elders were wise, they saw what happened, So they left us alone to learn. Afterall, the earth belonged to us.

Another was that in Africa (mainland), We developed only that which we needed, there was no need to make a gun or bullets, we weren't fighting anybody. Nobody would just try to cross the sahara, so we didn't know what happen on the other end of the sahara, the white's just came with their guns and ships and mullatoes plus thousands of years experienced they've had with dealing and deceiving the Blacks of middle-east and India. Let cut the history short, they got us , they did and that is it.

But they made sure that our mind was twisted forever. We now have a mind that is not ours, we see with another man's eyes what he wants to see. If a blackman makes a drug to cure HIV or Ebola, We will need for the whiteman to say YES to it, if they don't, then it shall be discarded, so many things unknown that has been created by us black people have been discarded without our knowledge.

You are blaming the white man all over again for you inability to run a successful government and economy.
Stop blaming him for your inability to develop superior weapons and fighting ability to confront invaders on your territory.
Stop blaming him for your inability to think analyse threats, think strategically and come up with counter measures to moves
against your liberty, health and happiness.
You are blaming the invader for your unpreparedness to confront a stronger, more devious and more determined enemy.
As I have said in one of my replies, its a world of conquest and plunder.
If the whites lack a certain natural resource that is vital to their economy, they'd come for it by hook, crook or force of arms.
What are you gonna do if such natural resource is located in your village?
Even their sky daddy book should have told you how the "chosen ones" were led to take over the lands of the Philistines, Amalekites
and others...lands they said were "flowing with milk and honey".
If the natives and occupants of such lands were caught unawares...then that was the day their own jungle matured.
History does not issue apologies, so drop the victim mentality.

gatiano:

What you have written in most is still begging for integration and acceptance into the whiteman's house. Maybe, you think when we build and develop our infrastructures and places, they would respect us and accept us, that is because you do not still understand their objective and aims.

Lol...even your interpretation of my post shows you either do not understand me or you've resigned yourself to the tag they
gave you..."3rd world country".
The European countries of the world are not in Pluto or Jupiter...they are not peopled by aliens...they are peopled by
people with one head on their shoulders...ten fingers and ten toes...who eat and drink food grown on this earth.
They just happen to have different skin pigment from you.
There is nothing like "begging for integration and acceptance into the whiteman's house".
The world has moved ahead of Africa...you are not going to re-invent the wheel, the computer, telephones.
You can either stay behind of the global progress, stay ahead of the global progress or play catch up.
There is no middle ground.
Also, I think you are also forgetting what IS THE PROBLEM.
The problem you and I know...is bad home grown leadership, lack of infrastructure, ignorance, insecurity, poverty, mental slavery and the rest.
The causes of these ills range from self-inflicted,imported,acquired to "imposed by the colonialists".
Do not play the victims card of resigning yourself to defeat by claiming "uniqueness" or "specialness".
Africans need to build the ability to join the rest of the developed world in having vibrant economies, prosperous societies, strong militaries
and enlightened leaders.
Accomplishing the above has nothing to do with "they would respect us and accept us".
Its you taking charge of your own life.

gatiano:

Do you want to fight and go to battle with them now? They will be so happy to oblige, they don't need to put their boys on the battle field, they would just pitch the Igbos against the Yoruba, and the Ashanti against the Akan etc, when everything has ended, only our black daughters would be left for the takings. They need them, white population is dieing off, very soon, they will be no more but clones of them.

I am not advocating for a war or battle "with them"...if it has to come to that...you or any black man alive will collectively
make that decision to either defend your land and freedom...or just give up.
Like our fore-fathers gave up when they experienced the superior firepower against their juju-backed swords and arrows.
Besides NATO, USAFRICOM, the CIA and their cousins have been bringing the war to you...very successful since you got your
"independence". And they're still going to bring more.
Gay marriage, transgendering, GMO foods, abolition of national currencies, American military bases on
sovereign countries not at war, re-colonization is already at your door steps.
Its already happened, they cooked up excuses to invade Libya..all because Gadaffi was going to develop an African golden currency
and teach the African nations how to trade in their own currencies as opposed to the dollars and euros.
Your presidents just sat by and watched...they devasted Libya, trained Islamist goons and took over the leadership and economy
of a once prosperous Libya. You probably just shrugged and minded your own business.
The white population is not dieing off. Neither will clones of them only remain very soon.
As we speak, the technology to prolong physical life...which has mostly to do with genetics and endocrinology is in their hands.
They're planning for the next couple of hundred years, you can either plan ahead too or just sit down and do nothing.

gatiano:

Do you want to build infrastructures, that would be bad for their dominance, and market, they must by all means keep us dependent on their 2nd hand products and bad services that we pay twice and thrice more for. Haven't you learn, that when you build it, they sabotage it or sanction the hell out of your economy, and if it doesn't help which is in most cases, they invade; just like in Libya, they want to do the same in North-korea. how much less YOU/ME a Blackman. Theyonly thing is to award them contracts to build the bad services and 2nd hand stuffs for us.

You are blaming the white man all over again for you inability to run a successful government and economy.
Drop that mentality.

gatiano:

So what do you suggest in this instances? I say the usual way (every blackman for himself)-it leads to death.

The only Black Nation is The Nation Of Islam(i hope you don't abuse, i am not a member of them), yes, they are the only nation. Following behind them may or might be Zimbabwe. all other are a coagulations of tribes. tribes=darkness and lack of knowledge.
Louis Farrakhan don't bow to no white punks, It hurts the white people badly. They do take care of themselves, they don't beg nobody, they are self-sufficient. They got loans at good interest rates and have paid back or paying back accordingly. All the other Black nation is owing imf or /and world bank. some leaders are unjustly jailed.

The Nation of Islam exists at the mercy and behest of the Secret Service of the United States.
Without the permission and approval of the white rulers of America...even the mere notion of "black nationalism" would be dealt
with ruthlessly. America was not built for the black man, hispanics or "others".
Its a nation conquered,planned, developed and ruled by the Europeans. They have over 2000 years of experience in managing
empires, nation states and governments to handle any incursions into their grip on power.
If you believe the comedy show called Nation of Islam, then you have my apologies.
These are folks who have no clue as to what Africa is, the different tribes and ethnic groups and the languages they speak.
Most of them even think all Africans are natively Muslim believers.
They have no clue as to the British hands behind the emergence of Wahabism, the toppling of the Ottoman empire,
the imposition of the Saud family on Saudi Arabia, the exile of the Sharif of Mecca to Cyprus after he had helped them topple Ottoman rule.
They are not knowledgeable about the history of Islam and the virtual eclipsing of the original Islamic teachings of the Arab world by the Saudi family and their state mullahs.
The relentless destruction of revered Islamic sites and antiquities, not to mention the high level re-engineering of Islam by the
handlers from British and French intelligence services.
They have no clue as to the centuries long brutal slavery of blacks by the Arabs and their Fulani allies.
If the NOI were preaching Ifa or Santeria, then I would have given them the benefit of doubt...as those would have been a bit
difficult for the white experts in cloning religious movements to manipulate.
Deal with it...the NOI is an intelligence subsidiary of the white establishment and the top echelon are either Prince hall masons or Shriners.
Malcom X found out and paid for exposing them with his life.
I'm assuming you even know what the last two sentences above means.

gatiano:

Get onto your own, love self, study self, study your enemies. It had worked for me perfectly, but it would completely when we Unite.
Like i said, Maybe you don't understand what peace means. It is also our weapon.

Ofcourse you must have peace and love within you for your life to even have a meaning.
I'm sure the slaves that were shipped from Africa also studied their enemies all through the Atlantic crossing, when they were chained and
displayed as merchandise at the auctions, when they were finally bought and moved to the plantations, when they were randomly bred with
the nearest female negro knowing they'd never claim the children as their own.
I'm sure they also wanted to unite with all the other slaves being worked to death in all the plantations across North and South America.
I'm sure they must have loved studying, loved themselves and studied their enemies everyday of their miserable lives...knowing one day
it will end in an unmarked and unmourned grave somewhere out in the wild.
Quit with the self-defeat bro! Wake up to the world!
What do you want?
That is the question you, me and every other black man needs to ruminate on...for a loooooong time.

gatiano:
PEACE, Has any of us experienced what peace felt like? I have and for not more than one (1) second. Peace is a powerful force on its own, It is so powerful that it can move anything and everything.

PEACE, Many of us think we are in peace at a time or the other, We are and were very wrong, for we misinterpret Order for Peace. We are so much in chaos that we don't longer know or understand the differences, afterall, according to the whiteman, order is gotten out of chaos, that is right in terms of destroying and rebuilding, but the whiteman don't mean it that way, what they mean is simply keep order, they will kill, maim, rape to create their own version of order. Their form of order is for them to be at the top of the pyramid and the Black people at the bottom, If we conform to this, then their can be "order", if we don't, they would make chaos to bring about the order (which is exactly what is going on now).

When I experienced this PEACE which was not more than a second, I understood the non-blacks fully, expecially the white people. Know it for a fact, and its 100%, They do not want peace, they can't survive peace, the force of it was too heavy on them and still will be heavy on them, it will kill them all except the ones amongst them who will take the righteousness of the Blackman (the right thinking or right thought of the Blackman).
So, they(whiteman) has spent everything in its might to ensure that there must never be peace, there GDP spending is mostly on ensuring no peace but to make order.

So, I understood why The Nation of Islam carries no weapons, not even a blade, and we don't need it at all.

How can we get or achieve this PEACE? We can get it without using one bullet, or protesting around like herds of cows crying for acceptance from the white community and non-blacks. Why should the Nation Of Islam be there when they are against integration? wouldn't that be hypocrisy? I won't be there either, I feel very bad for those brothers and sisters being murdered on a regular basis, at the same time, A part in my mind is saying, perhaps they would learn their lessons by seperating and most importantly mental seperation. If not, they can enjoy been killed and murdered like chickens and very soon, when I'm tired, I will begin to cheers to it (May God forgive me).

Elijah Muhammad gave them all the recipe, for winning the war against chaos. Amongst all the books He wrote, He wrote one book twice, called "How to eat to live, 1 and 2". Well, Black people in their usual state of mind went to check with their white doctors first and in recent time google. As much as this improves our health astronomically, Its importance is far more greater than that, It is a military strategy bu quiet. You would definitely be corruptless, You would fully understand necessities from needs and from wants, You never spend 1 kobo or cent not accounted for properly, You will be so light to the extent that You would understand what Elijah Muhammad meant when He said We Black people are all Allah, because you would connect with the real You.

So How can this PEACE be attained? THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY, AND THAT IS UNITY, Black people for eons have only lived by the code of UNITY. There is no other choice, no mathematical or scientific or humanities or social adjustment can create the peace, only we will use it to make order for the whiteman to control. Thus, no choice else.
It is through unity (Black unity) that Peace will come. As light emits photons ,so does Black unity emits Peace. It is constant.
When The peace is finally achieved, Black people grow and develop, Your/Our/My body won't allow me to sit around doing nothing or doing something not constructive. Each and everyone of us (Both Men and Women) will have a special specialty that he/she must contribute. In 10 years, we will tour the universe mechanically, for it is the easiest way of travelling the universe.

What does the whiteman do? he causes disunity constantly within us, he sets our gaze constantly on their filth and foo lishness. they spy on us constantly, One of them must be on this very tread watching and will try to cause confusion.

Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, Hutsi, Akan, Zulu etc are not more than a language fixed on that geographical location. We Black people all over the earth are One Nation.

Bro while I like such nice sounding write-ups, I don't think they're what we need now.
It's like a very hungry traveller stopping by at a lodge on the road...expecting to get some food.
He meets a man who sits him down and starts lecturing him on the wonderful effects of taking foods rich
in vitamins, proteins etc. He describes whole grain foods, white meat vs red meat, red wine vs beer,
green vegs vs cooked vegs, low carb vs high carb diets...and so on.
He even includes descriptions of the menus found in McDonald's outlets somewhere out there,
he regales the hungry traveller with fantastic stories of how you can just sit and order anything on the menu,
how the waiters will themselves bring the food to your table...and so on.
Two hours into the interesting discussion, the hungry traveler realizes he has not seen any food and the talker probably
has no food to give. When asked if he has been to any of the places he mentioned, the talker starts quoting from books
and pamphlets describing those places. When asked if he has tasted any of the foods he's been describing, the talker
opens an encyclopedia of foods to look for answers.

You see...you cannot give what you don't have.
You cannot show what you have not seen.
You cannot lead where you have not been.
A fellow slave in chains cannot be preaching "freedom and liberty" to fellow slaves in chains.
He can only encourage them to join hands and break their chains.
While it takes faith and courage to embark on risky adventures...no promises can be made...the invitation at that
stage is to dare and reap the profits.
These self flattering "charismatic leaders" have been schooled in social engineering and human psychology of the Europeans.
When they're done talking, the old reality still remains and you're subconsciously led to accept it as your lot.


That write-up you quoted is a NO-ACTION, EMASCULATING and PACIFIST drivel.
It's the kind of stories a sweet talking con man tells a hungry traveller in the middle of the desert.
Its the kind of stories the European priests and clergy told our fore-fathers...just before they forced them at GUN POINT,
surrounded by WAR SHIPS and SPECIAL FORCES SOLDIERS to sign over their lands IN PERPETUITY to the crown of England.

When you're done reading such sweet fairy tales that do nothing but excite your mind...you neither have gained knowledge
nor solutions to problems confronting you. You're not even challenged to be a man and face the reality of your situation.
It is an inviolable law of life and nature that the SUPERIOR RULES THE INFERIOR.
That is not a philosophical saying. That means only the STRONGEST SURVIVE.
The Whites have DEVELOPED superior knowledge and mental abilities...you have to acknowledge it and accord them that respect.
My message is that the black man...if he so desires...and can be disciplined and astute enough to accomplish it,
can also develop SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE and MENTAL ABILITIES.
That means abilities to research and build technology that can change the face of the world.
A hundred or less years from now, what we know as advanced technology will be seen to be antiquated.
The exact same way no one buys black and white TVs any more.
Nuclear bombs, hydrogen bombs,atomic bombs, cluster bombs...can all be bested. It might not be in this generation, but
desperate minds will find a way. Those who SEEK AND DARE will find their own ways to solve their own problems.

It was never about peace or love or justice. Its ALWAYS about dominion, power and wealth. Someone has to rule.Never forget that.
You can only talk about peace when you have won a battle and secured your winnings.
You can only talk about love when you have encountered and transcended bitterness and hatred.
You can only talk about justice when you either have it or can give it.
It all boils down to man and what he does in his world.
All those other wordly trash marketed as "religious" and "spiritual"
won't be remembered when USAFRICOM decide to invade any African nation of their choice.
There is always a crown and someone has to wear it.
You are either born into it, or its given to you, or you take it by force.
That's what it is...it is the way of the world.

cap28:


There are many alternatives, but many are not visible within the white controlled corporate media, this is where knowledge of self comes in to play, imagine what it would be like if BET were to be owned and controlled by a conscious black person, imagine the kind of shows that we would be treated to. Rather than showing images of buck dancing wanna be white black people we would be shown educational documentaries about our glorious past, there would be regular shows about black economic independence and practical ways in which to achieve this, instead of watching crap like love and hip hop, the real wives of Atlanta and hell date we would be watching uplifting educational documentaries about our glorious past which would instill in us the pride and motivation to change our current situation.
Imagine how it would be if we were to be treated on a regular basis, to educational programmes about African history, our many achievements, our great empires, our creativity, our great artistry which every race in the world has hijacked and appropriated.

What's stopping you and your black leaders from telling the world how beautiful and lovely the blackman and his world is?
BET is not even a black controlled media channel.
How about creating your own thing?Do it and let's see!

cap28:


Muhammed Ali, Malcolm X, Marcus Garvey, Patrice Lumumba, Kwame Nkrumah, Thomas Sankara, Nelson Mandela the list goes on.

Heck no sir! In the big scheme of things...the above guys are "LOSERS"...you read that right.
The role models that will inspire positive and liberating action are in the leagues of Shaka Zulu, Ahmadu Bello etc.
These were men of conquest and triumph. The part of me that detests warfare and bloodshed would agree...but then the world is what it is. Its a world of conquest and plunder. You need to be able to wage wars, fight decisive battles, claim territories, exploit other peoples, impose your laws on strange lands and generally lord it over others. I bet you if the whites had not given media coverage to the folks you listed...most blackmen wouldn't give a dam.n about them or whatever they stood for.

cap28:


Because the dominant society (white supremacy) degrades and ridicules black women, also black men are willing accomplices to white supremacy, many black men prefer the physical features of the ugliest white woman to the most beautiful black woman, this has engendered terrible self hatred in many black women who feel that the only way they can get a black man is by looking like a white woman.


The majority of black men are cowards and are afraid to fight the system of white supremacy. There is nothing mediocre or silly about black culture, black culture is about the ability to survive the most brutal and barbaric system on this planet. What is "better" about a system that castrated, rap.ped and brutalised your ancestors?



Its not about the black man's ego, its about his fear of the white man, black people are afraid of losing the little crumbs the white man throws in his direction, so they degrade themselves in order to have a little money in their pockets.


The black man's concept of beauty has been distorted because he lives amongst his enemy. It is very difficult to grow up loving your black skin, your broad nose and your thick curly hair in a society that tells you day in day out that those characteristics denote ugliness.

Its interesting how you use the image of the white man's creation to portray beauty - says a lot about your own mindset . I mean if you are using the white german man's creation as a template that says it all.

Maybe you didn't get the memo...I could CC you excerpts tho...
The white man does not you anything.
The white man doesn't owe it to you to be fair, just, kind, honest or straight forward.
He doesn't owe it to you to "appreciate black beauty"...or agree that your "broad nose and thick lips" are beautiful too.
He doesn't owe it to you to make sure perception of black people and their ways of life is positive.
The white man did not brave the dangers of the Atlantic crossing hundreds of years ago...the confrontations with the Native Indians...the cold and hunger of living in a new land...to "give justice, fairness or equity" to the black man.
They did not develop the vast land mass of North America
and Canada...so the black man could live on equal terms with them.
They took the land by force, killed off the natives, forced those they couldn't kill to sign off the land over in perpetuity to them and their heirs.
The black man was not and still is not part of their long term plans.
Its not a fair or just world...if you want justice or fairness...go get it!
All those defeatist excuses are just escape windows for cowards and those afraid to dare and die.

cap28:


That's funny cos I could have sworn that black people built the pyramids of Egypt and Sudan. I can also remember that the Moors introduced such great technological advancements in areas such as architecture, literature, science and agriculture to the backward and barbaric people of Iberia (now known as Spain) Correct me if im wrong but these influences are still visible in Spain to date.


And the Egyptians who everyone learnt from were black Africans but your white supremacist history teachers have rewritten history so that you don't know that basic fact. We Africans taught the world what beauty is but they have stolen our ideas and pretended as if they are the originators of those same ideas. This practice of stealing from us is an ongoing practice - a simple example is hip hop - notice how the most visible hip hop artists are now white, whereas the originators were black. You need to be aware of the game, if you want to win.

Show me the equivalent of the Egyptian pyramids in sub-saharan africa...not mud mounds. Don't also tell me about Sudan...cos ancient Egypt extended far...and migrants from Egypt took the customs along.
The people Alexander and his successors met in Egypt could not have been sub saharan africans.
By the time the Romans and Arabs took over...they were clearly a mixture of many peoples. And all of that had little or nothing to do with sub saharan africa.
If you doubt me...I could challenge you to give me the oral history of your ethnic group about the Giza pyramid.

Stop blaming the whites bro. They're just doing their thing...and they owe you no apologies.
The challenge is to do your own thing...if you can.

AAinEqGuinea:
well said, but now we're, in many respects, preaching to the choir... 50 years later Farrakhan and NOI are still preaching yet again with renewed hope

If you're in Nigeria try taking this thread to the door of Boko Baram and see what happens

If in the states try taking our speeches to the gully trap houses of the most charismatic street goons and see what happens

See how simple it is to use these speeches to lift many Blacks out of generations of abject poverty...

Go kick down the doors of corporations and tell the Black man behind the desk to quit his job as a slave and risk starting a black company that will likely fail due to the lack of support from his own people

Rush the stage of a Young Thug concert, snatch the mic, and tell everyone how brainwashed they really are and see how that goes..

Try preaching this thread to a modern African thoroughly convinced that African Americans are scum who dont deserve the prefix of "African"

Similarly, trying telling this to African Americans who laughs at any image of anything African....


preaching is what we remain doing, and this what Farrakhan is still doing... Parading around some Afrocentric elitist attitude that doesn't change the current state of things so no one is really listening but us, admittedly you may get some respect from our Afrocentric screeds from black peopke. it sounds nice, but it doesn't change anything for many people when convincing them to drop what they're doing for whitey or change their minds.


After some time, most people will know whether you're simply romancing the ideas of what you preach or willing to die help people. King was not out to make a name for himself.

Bro, I understand what you're saying...
Its true...black folks care more about survival than any Uncle Tom do goody talks. Yeah...
And the majority are scared stiff of the ensuing punishments of the "law" and "disturbing the peace".
The rest just comment and take no action.

A starting point would be to recognize that we are not all the same and are at different "intellectual levels"...so to speak.
The so-called preaching by the NOI cannot be for the consumption of the average man...and that is NOT being elitist. It is for those who are willing to die for a cause they believe in. Not all can pay the price or stand the heat.
Preaching with all that intensity is just asking from broken people what they do not have and cannot give.

That's why I tag all such preachers as folks who flatter themselves and make a name out of it. They love hearing themselves talk. And their listeners love the escapism and glamour of it all...cos it leads to no action and no changes at the end of the day.
True revolutionaries and radicals do not make themselves known to the law...they always operate under masks and proxies. Safety first...a drowning man cannot save another drowning man.
I used to abhor so-called secret societies/fraternities...such as the Templars, Jesuits, Freemasons...until I became a better student of human nature and history.

Because greed, selfishness, sabotage and weakness are parts of man's inherited attributes...men will always take the easier route when possible.
You cannot hand over power or responsibility to someone who is not obligated to you. Its common sense.
The NOI is a lost cause...its always been a recruiting ground for FBI and CIA black operatives and snitches.

All effective pressure groups and revolutionary movements have been secret and hidden...most have public fronts with fancy titles and goals. Some even have religious affiliations for public consumption. That is the only known effective way to effect changes against a ruling majority who are opposed to you. The Freemasons changed the course of Europe by cutting the link between the State and the papacy...while being good sons of the Roman church. The Templars introduced credit, Arabian-Sufist enlightenment...all anathema to the papacy by disguising themselves as servants of the church.

Its a game of deception and subterfuge...deadly in the short and long term...but abundantly rewarding to the victors.
You need a few men of honor and enlightenment...who understand what IS IMPORTANT...and are willing to pay the price.
Any other thing else...is just entertainment and sensationalism.

My opinion.

@cap28
Blaming Shymexx or any other black for "consumerism" or materialism...while sometimes needed...I've discovered to be counter productive.
How do I mean?
There appears to be no visible alternative for black folks to idolize.
What is the alternative to the black man worshipping "shiny things and toys"?
What black responsible role model can our youths look up to?
Our sisters are even damned ashamed of their hair and natural looks! Most black women vehemently defend their wearing wigs and weave ons like their life depends on it!
Black men know deep down the mediocrity and silliness that is "black culture". Yeah I said it.
Being social animals, they wanna belong too...to something perceived as "better". Can't fault that.
But its never a solution to a self-replicating cycle of self-hate.
Its all about egos. We've not transcended or mastered our egos. To be honest, the whites are leading by far in ego mastery even if theirs leads to disfunctional personalities.

In my opinion, the root of the black man's "problem"...is the lack of what I call "beauty consciousness".
We blacks seem to abhor anything that is beautiful or orderly! Never mind the obsession with shiny things.
If we truly loved beauty...we would replicate such things where ever black people are found.
Take a good look at say a Mercedes Benz AMG S class car...the aesthetics, the attention to details, the refinement, the luxury and sheer beauty of it all.
The black man as we know it...has not demonstrated the ability to conceptualize or manifest such works.
Don't get me started about the pyramids or "african artifacts".
We seem to lack the mental depth and vision to appreciate such levels of beauty. It even had to take White stylists and designers to portray black models as "desirable"!

Summary : the solution I think to the black mans lack of values and aesthetics...is to cultivate a culture of beauty.
It needs to be embedded in our subconscious.
That's what would drive the Romans to build aqueducts over 2000 years ago, make them discover how to use electricity to light up their streets in the night, develop styles of architecture pleasing to the eye...
Drive out the blacks from Detroit and allow the whites to repossess the city once again...in no time they'll beautify it...clean up the mess and make it working. Do you doubt it?
The ugliness would not resonate with their subconscious...thus they would be driven to change it.
On the other hand, almost all that is associated with the black man is...you know what...
We need to master the art of learning from those who know how. The Romans learnt from the Greeks, Syrians, Persians.
The Greeks learnt from the Phoenicians, Egyptians.
The British learnt from the Arabs and Egyptians.
Its the way of the world...learn and improve.
The black man has refused to learn. This is what needs to be changed.

@Shymmex and others...my type of thread!
My contributions...

For starters, let's analyse the challenges and problems facing blacks in the States and africa.

The most important ingredient for any political organization or any group of people at all is finance...to be more specific independent finance. Loyalty, commitment and dedication to group goals have been proved by history to be subject to the forces of demand and supply. People have needs and wants...meet them and they're yours to use. When push comes to shove, survival instincts will always take precedent over "principles", "ethics" and all such sophistries.

The setup of the USA and the mechanism of global finance has ruled out the blacks from the game. The Fed is a privately controlled franchise, the stock and commodity exchanges are all owned by the same dynasties that came from England and Europe, the bigger game of forex and credit facilities is a Jewish game. These turfs are not accessible in any direct manner to the blacks. The dollars are printed for acquisition of any strategic assets deemed useful...shipped to the designated banks...disbursed to the trusted white establishment companies...backed by the white establishment judges and justices...enforced by white establishment military forces. The black man is a mere observer in this game. The white man does not need to work to "create" money or wealth...they own and control all the apparatus for asset creation, acquisition, valuation and ownership.
If you understand the above, then the near futility of the black mans efforts to challenge the white establishment will dawn on you.

The only thing the white establishment fears is the rage, anger and wrath of the alpha black male. They know its a force of nature. They also know the majority of black males appear to lack the intellectual capacity to accomplish any political, military or economic goal.
Current and ongoing efforts are on course to completely emasculate the black males...and the males of all other groups.
Hip hop is already a pink business, stars are groomed and launched by the puppet masters. Absurdities are crafted and marketed as "normal". Not many know Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga are trannies. Most of the stars out there are sexually compromised puppets used to drive social engineering projects. These are the idols your kids worship and adore. The fruits of social engineering are already with us...as societal backlash against departures from established norms is muted and repressed.
Its deemed "uncool" and "bigotry" and "hateful".

The dollar is just a designated storage of value agreed on by the white powers that be to drive trade and commerce. It is the primary duty of the military, secret service,the courts and the crew in Washington to protect and preserve the dollar. Without the dollar as the weapon of control...the game collapses...as loyalty and commitment will shift to whomever can guarantee the "creation" of money and wealth. In other words...its the oldest racket in existence.
Wars are just a mechanism to clear out rotten debts and enforce compliance to repayment of debts.
So long as the blacks are dependent on "earning dollars" to pay for anything whatsoever...they're slaves to the system and can always be punished, manipulated and coerced into submission.

Second, you need a strong ideological,religious and philosophical base to build a cohesive society. For the Greeks/Anglo-Saxons/Celtics it was their mythologies, gods, demi-gods, semi-divine kings, authority of their priests and priestesses. These are the heritage native peoples indentify with and rally around. This is the subconscious energy that drives and sustains any society or ethnic group. To lose this would leave any tribe anchorless and without direction. This is the secret of the "Jewish" establishment...which has totally taken over the Anglo-Saxon/Celtic establishment. The Jewish mythological and religious ethos resonates more with man's collective unconscious than any other "religion" known to man. Its a carefully researched and crafted mythology. Without the mandate of their "god" and his "laws"...their is no drive or reason to live a certain way of life.

The majority black leaders of any repute in the world are either Prince Hall Masons, Scottish/York rite masons, shriners or any of the gang of freemason affiliates. This is where the minds and souls of leaders are owned and controlled. Its a "Jewish" thing...albeit controlled by the white establishment. This is where guiding thoughts, strategies and principles for any particular decade are formulated and acted out.
The blacks are already owned...as they have no guiding ethos, religion or mythology to form a group consciousness around. Study Elijah Muhammad's works and compare them to published Sufist ideologies...same old Kabalistic ideas repackaged. The NOI is a subsidiary of American Freemasonry...nothing original was brought to the table by Elijah Muhammad or his followers...infact they borrowed it all from the Hermetic and Sufist philosophies taught them.
So long as the blacks have submitted themselves to the sky daddy religions of the Islamists and their Jewish cousins...so long as their ethos and spiritual values are dictated by the White adopters of the mystical traditions of the East...so long as their minds and thoughts will be owned and controlled by their masters.

Finally, you need science, technology and a strong military to establish any successful society. We blacks care more about the latest Kardarshian gossip than about the latest arms deals going on between the leading nations of the world. While strong and aspiring-to-be-strong nations like Iran and N.Korea are negotiating their places at the global casino tables...we blacks care more about "keeping it real" and silly reality shows. We are more interested in NBA distractions, video games, street credibility than the game of power. Better to leave such things to the whites who understand it. Why bother?
Nations are busy securing their present and future sovereignty by investing in weapons research, training and fitting disciplined military units, developing and refining military doctrines...while we would rather do the East Coast vs West Coast thingy. Heck even our so called graduates are content with that tag...you know for the bragging rights of having attended college. They have no clue as to the practicability of whatever they were taught!

The blacks need to MAKE and CREATE their own history.
Ponder for a minute on how the Europeans carved up and partitioned ENTIRE CONTINENTS into countries of their own naming and likes.
Subjugated entire empires and subcontinents using a mere handful of men. Amazing aint it?

If they can do it...the blacks can even do better.

Our current course is on a journey to nowhere...filled with chapters of ignorance, victimization, betrayals, pain, poverty, defeat and failure.
That reality needs to be changed and replaced with a better one. It will require GREAT SACRIFICES in blood and resources...but the coming generations...history...posterity...will tell the story.
The same way current world history is the story of the Europeans and their descendants.

My 2 cents.

MuttleyLaff:
No worries bro, am now on page 77 Chapter 5

Thanks for the reference...been scouting for an epub version for my iPad...just got one.
Interesting read...after a cursory read...I think he's pushing typical neo-liberal Western ideologies.
You know, the type where there are no laws or guidelines for anyone to follow.
Where "female" and "male" are now called social "gender roles"...and can be tweaked to take on any meaning.
Where "father" and "mother" will soon be classified as "roles" and not actual persons of different genders.
Where just about every surviving social and historical construct of modern society will
be subject to any form of social engineering.
Its daring...but highly subversive if you read between the lines IMO.
The conclusions he appears to be reaching can be used to justify the overthrow of any established society and its norms.
Not really a bad thing...until they cross the line...a la gay marriage, transgendering, abolition of property rights etc.
I like the parts where he compares and contrasts the social,political and gender perceptions of different societies over time.
Also, how modern society has grown to be more liberal and tolerant of opposing views.


If you're interested in similar books...check out these ones
Amir D. Aczel-God's Equation
J. Craig Venter-Life at the Speed of Light -From the Double Helix to the Dawn of Digital Life


@Rossike...I think you'll find these ones to your liking
The Ankh- African Origin of Electromagnetism by Nur Ankh Amen
Back To a Future for Mankind-BioGeometry by Ibrahim Karim

PS: If you need download links...lemme know.

TheFilmmaker:



Wow, that was crude of you.

Please direct your vitriol elsewhere. My comment was because the op had similar sentiments like the creator of the matrix trilogy. And man, I read.

You're just too myopic to see it.

O I see. Thought you were referring to the general tone of the discussion.
Actually I did not write my last response as an insult...meant to spur you to think and quit being
intellectually lazy. Lots of us Africans think its cool to be ignorant.

I'm sure you would not find this elegant...

TheFilmmaker:
Too much Matrix fanatics.

If someone commented thus in an intellectual thread like this one.

I don't think anyone is claiming special knowledge or anything...just rubbing minds
and discussing stuff that piques one's interest.
Join the fray and contribute something...let's have a great discussion.

TheFilmmaker:
Too much Matrix fanatics.

Same thing your ancestors would probably have said when they were told people travel on the high seas and oceans.
Same thing they probably would have said when they were told the Europeans have firearms against which their gods and goddesses
were totally powerless.
Same thing you probably would have said about TVs, telephony, aviation, satellites...had the Whites not been kind enough to make such
knowledge available to you.
Same thing you would have said about testing for blood group compatibility...and continued sacrificing to oracles and their tax collectors...
had not the Whites taken time to study genetics and biology and pass on the knowledge to you.
Same thing that kept them in total subjugation to the Whites. Same thing that made them and their descendants incompetent to
run a country handed over to them by their colonial masters.
Same thing that will make you queue up today, tomorrow and next tomorrow to bear gasoline to fuel your generator in an
oil-producing country.
Same thing that will make your state governor jet out to foreign doctors for any slight illness...and vote no confidence in local doctors.
Same thing that will make you go wow...had it been a white man that published the above in a book or documentary.
Same thing that will keep you tagging along the Whites in this generation and the 20 next to come...
Because you refuse to READ, THINK and USE YOUR MIND.
Pathetic.

Mapletraks:


There is NO such history among the Yoruba!
Such Websites like the one you quoted above
are very notorious for peddling false propaganda
about other people's histories.

One CRAZY and mentally unstable person
once wrote that the Ibos where the original
settlers in Abeokuta because Okwute means
rock in Ibo. No such history exists. This lunanic
also said the Egbas are Ibos. To my surprise
I observed that some gullible people abroad
and in Nigeria - even on Nairaland had copied
this piece of false information on their Websites
and blogs. Even the Igbo in Ijebu Igbo, Igbo Ora,
Igbomina, Igbobi, etc, has nothing to do
with the Ibos.

I too find it to be the nonsensical imaginations of a few unlettered minds.
The late pseudo-historian...some Ibo lady...went as far as claiming Obatala is the father of the Igbo nation!
Was wondering if she meant Orisa Nla or the ancient ruler at Ife...
Dont remember informed Igbos correcting her fallacious statements.
I think in general Igbos seem to have this silly inferiority complex which they mask using load boasts
and chest beating(I said it).
Why attach other people's history to your own? People you have no oral history about...whom you never had
direct dealings with before precolonial times? Why can't you just be proud of whatever history you have?
I'm actually on a mission to cure the Igbos in Delta state of their "Bini origin" delusion because of this.
It find irritating.

Mapletraks:

As far as I know, and I have spent decades reading about the history and cultures of several
Nigerian and Diasporian peoples because I hate
not knowing about other people's cultures, Aniomas come from multiple ancestries.

Factual...they are a mixture of different peoples with diverse origins.
What is not completely clear is the what percentage came from where.

Mapletraks:

Infact, concrete research work on migratory
patterns in Anioma shows that out of the
slightly over 100 communities in Delta North,
only about 20% trace their origins to the
Ibo, East of River Niger. The rest have Igala, Edo,
Yoruba, Esan, some Nupe, Ijaw, etc. This is based
on a research from a University in Delta State.

I tag that research faulty until they can give conclusive answers to the question of why Igbo is the lingua franca of Delta North.
Infact going by their claims, Edo tongue should have been the lingua franca. They all should have been bearing Edo names
and practicing pure Bini traditions.
The Ebus and Olukumis are all fluent Igbo speakers...and THIS WAS NOT a recent phenomena.
Heck, even the Olukumis are complaining that their younger generation are loosing touch with their base Yoruba tongue!
The pervasive culture/tradition is Igbo with heavy borrowing from Bini.
There is no known history of forceful acculturation by the Igbos...the dominant power before the colonial era
was Bini...culturally and politically. Therefore Igbo tongue and customs COULD NOT HAVE BEEN FORCED on the whole
of Delta North. The peoples who acculturated and took up Igbo language and customs...were clearly the migrants
in the midst of AN IGBO MAJORITY.
This Igbo majority maintained their identity FIERCELY in the typical clannish manner
reminiscent of the Igbos, even the Igbanke in that are situated very close to Bini city and a bit isolated
from their Anioma kins retained their Igbo tongue and ways.
So that 20% is either concocted, not well researched or the product of FALLACIOUS CLAIMS to non-existent ancestries
peddled by folks suffering from inferiority complex in Delta North.

Mapletraks:

Delta North communities know who they are
and were their original ancestors came from.
I am particularly thrilled by the great Igala people
and the presence of their descendants in
what is known as the Igala-associated
communities of Ebu, Okpanam, Asaba, and
even Illah, the hometown of Stephen Keshi,
Frank Olize, and Desmond Elliot's mum..

Some communities in Anioma still speak
their dialects of Edoid, Yoruboid, and Igalloid
forms of communication such as Ebu where Igalla is spoken, Igbodu where the Olukunmis
speak a dialect of Yoruba - the Olukunmis
share boundaries with the Esans of Edo
state and where the FIRST to settle in their land
after leaving Esanland, because they were
originally in Benin but left during the Ogiso era
according to their king Oloza Ayo Isinyemeze.


It was through acculturation or borrowing of
the cultures of their neighbors that made
some of these non-Ibo people to adopt
bilingualism for the purpose of trading..

The question you are either avoiding or are not informed enough to ask is...why did they overwhelmingly borrow Igbo?
Why not Edo? Atleast the ones known to be Edo migrants in Nigeria...Afemai, Esan...all speak Edo tongues.
With the claims and counter-claims to Bini ancestry in Delta North...what are they still doing with Igbo?
The ones known to be migrants from other areas...the Ebus and Olukumis...retain their native tongues till today.
They are the ones who have acculturated...and they are in the minority.
The majority have no known native tongue to retain...sure words were borrowed from Bini and all that...
But the native tongue remains 95% Igbo. I'm sure you know that.
It was not the Igbos who adopted Igalla, it was not the Igbos who adopted Olukumi Yoruba,
it was not the Igbos who adopted the Bini tongue of the Bini migrants...
The migrants overwhelmingly adopted the language and customs of THEIR HOSTS.
If a people adopt another language for the purpose of trading...it can only mean a few things...
(1) They are strangers and migrants in the land they adopted a new language for trading
(2) The natives whose language was adopted for trading ARE THE MAJORITY and ARE NOT THE SAME people
as the minority who adopted their language for trading
(3) To lump the people whose language was adopted for trading with the OTHER PEOPLE who adopted
their language for trading...as ONE PEOPLE...or declare them to HAVE THE SAME ANCESTRY...is a historical fallacy.
And that is where I owe you a correction.
Quit with the historical revisionism. Tell your fathers and grand fathers to be proud of who they are.
Posterity will judge them unkindly if they leave a legacy of lies and historical untruths.

Mapletraks:

If you go to Anambra North you will find
indigenous Igalas there. Igalas are originally
boat people so there were crossings from
the East of the Niger to the West of the Niger
River and they made landings in Asaba as well.


Ibos are not the only influences in Delta North
and the quest to make the whole of Anioma
into an Ibo State as being championed by some
people on some propaganda Websites will
NOT succeed because the GREAT people of
Anioma are a "Rainbow Nation" even though
central ibo (an artificial creation of the British
colonial era) is understood by them.

Ofcourse they are not the only influences in Delta North.
But again I ask...what is the dominant language and culture in Delta North?

Mapletraks:


The Anioma peoples of Aniocha, Ika, Oshimili,
and Ndokwa have fascinated me for more than
20 years now with their exotic history. During
the Ekumeku War with the British, they
all came together and provided resistance
and War Commanders from the Olukunmi
community of Eko Efun(meaning white chalk)
otherwise known as Ukwunzu are noted in the
list of battle commanders from several
communities of Anioma, East and West of the
River Niger.

Oguta, Ogbaru, Onitsha, etc, are some of the
Anioma communites that were balkanised
by the British after they were defeated.

I think Anioma communities are ripe for a DNA
test to be carried out on the different clans and
quarters in every Delta North community. This
paternal and maternal DNA tests which have
been done on Lebanese people which
detected Phoenician ancestry in a lot of
Lebanese irrespective of religion, can be
financed by the cultural groups, and business
moguls such as the Agbor-born Jim Ovia,
Nduka Obaigbena, Tony Elumelu, and more,
to lay to rest the actual ancestries of the Anioma
communities instead of just relying on oral
traditions which can easily be manipulated.

Even DNA samples can be obtained from
Eze Chima and his descendants in Onitsha
and other Delta North locations to finally
know whether he was an Ibo who left Benin
or whether he was an Edo man who settled
in Onitsha Ado.

You ended up not making any point. All the above is well known.
I believe it will be in your best interest to go back home to you father and elders and ask them deep questions.
When the fathers lie about the boundaries on lands they own...their children will suffer the consequences of incursion into
the lands of their neighbours.
It appears the elders of Anioma are infested with a serious malady of inferiority complex.
Do the Binis of yesterday and today not call you lots "ovwie Igbo"?
The Binis call you "ovwie Igbo"...you turn around and call the SE Igbos "onye Igbo"?
What's that?
Who introduced Igbo into their midst?
Have the Binis ever acknowledged the mythical ancestry you lots attribute to them?
What's up with the whole Bini fascination?
Are those borrowed Bini customs of Igue, Iyase...native to you?
How come you lots speak Igbo, bear Igbo names and practice Igbo customs?
Are you aware of how similar Agbor spoken Igbo is to Owerri dialect?
Do the indigenes of Owa know how many Umu-Owas there are in Imo state?
How many Onichas do you think there are across the 5 eastern states?
Whether or not they practice monarchy or have Bini-style political systems DOES NOT NEGATE the fact
that you are all still Igbo speaking people...and whatever Bini style culture you have WAS BORROWED.
Don't accept conjectures or superiority claims over the Igbos across the Niger.
A superior people/civilization do not adopt the language and customs of inferior people.
Its the other way round. Demand honest answers and quit making yourselves look silly before other people.
As a student of history....I find it pathetic.

Thanks to whichever mod unblocked my post
Was a lot of keystrokes to waste....

Interesting!!!
Rossike great discussion here!
The spambot hid my first post of this long article and banned me...hope I get lucky this time around.

I think the answer to the riddle of life is CONSCIOUSNESS.
It is the mind of man that creates and modifies reality.
That the mind of man is made up of different level/sections has been a major breakthrough for modern science.
I believe this was what was represented by the ancient trinities- Osiris, Horus and Isis.
The subconscious mind, the self-conscious mind and the super-conscious mind.
The subconscious mind has been discovered to be the powerhouse and administrator of the body and mechanism of man's behaviour and daily interactions. However it was found to be unable to "reason"...it functions more like a perfectly programmed computer. The primary function of the subconscious mind is memory. This last statement is FULL OF MEANING.

The self-conscious mind is the initiator and director of the subconscious mind. This is also called WAKING consciousness.
This is the part of your mind you use to run your daily life, read this post and interact with other human beings.
The self-conscious mind cannot run the affairs of the body the way the subconscious mind does it.
Automatic regulation of blood sugar, body temperature, digestion, elimination of body wastes etc. are beyond the abilities of the self-conscious mind.
But the POWER of the self-conscious mind is SUGGESTION and INITIATION. It has COMPLETE MASTERY over the subconscious mind.
But this mastery is not easy to exercise...or rather not too many people know how to exercise it consciously.
The key is simply FAITH or BELIEF.
Anything accepted at the self-conscious level is COMPLETELY received as truth and reality without discrimination by the subconscious mind.
This is the basis of hypnosis, magic and other esoteric practices. Ancient mystics stumbled upon the reality modification abilities of the subconscious mind ages ago.
Infact the subconscious mind can be said to be the BUILDER OF PHYSICAL REALITY. Your body and external environments are ALL CREATIONS of your subconscious mind. They are ALL IDEAS or THOUGHTS manifested as 3D physical images in YOUR MIND.

Normally, a barrier exists between the subconscious mind and the self-conscious. Attempts to break this barrier lead to psychotic situations and mental problems. The NORMAL domain of operation of NORMAL people is at the self conscious level. Below that level, reality becomes something else and a disconnect AUTOMATICALLY happens with other levels of mind.
This barrier is variously called called REASON, LOGIC or the voice in your head. This filters input both ways to ensure your subconscious mind is not triggered into changing your perception of physical reality.
If you completely believe you can do something, you notice you entire being is somehow filled with energy/ability to START carrying it out.
During life threatening crises, when this barrier is temporarily disabled...people have discovered they could run kilometers without getting tired,lift extra ordinary weights, perform unthinkable feats! When they COME BACK TO THEIR senses...the ability vanishes.


Infact the subconscious mind has a frightening ability...the power of perfect deductions from a premise.
This is why one should be careful of what one reads, watches or believes.
Given a premise...whether TRUE of FALSE...the subconscious mind will break it down into a perfect sequence of deductions and proceed to wire the psyche and hormone system to correspond to that conclusion. This conclusion is stored as MEMORY which is loaded like a computer program and executed perfectly when the trigger is set.
The moment you accept anything as TRUE at the self conscious level, your subconscious mind GETS TO WORK in your body, psyche and external world to MAKE IT A REALITY. Remember that your external world is basically a projection of your subconscious mind.
What the self-conscious mind actually does is to PROGRAM the subconscious mind and reset the EMBEDDED or ACQUIRED MEMORY.
The art of doing this has been called magic, sorcery, witchcraft etc. It can be both good and evil.
Phobias and irrational behaviours are mostly traced to childhood experiences or events that were not completely understood...but
were interpreted by the person involved in ways that engendered fear,loathing and anxiety.
Whatever was the final conclusion, the subconscious mind accepts and makes the person react in a manner matching its deduction.
Even after the memory of the event has been forgotten at the self conscious level.


The power/force/energy the subconscious mind uses for its formidable activities is derived from the superconscious mind.
Both the self conscious mind and subsconscious mind depend on the superconscious mind for the energy/force/power to function.
Infact it could be said that this is the domain of the "God" in man. This is what makes man divine. Because this part of his mind
is both supernatural and transcendental...setting man above all other "lower" creatures.

This higher mind has been discovered by several peoples of all civilizations.
The Yorubas call it Eleda. The Igbos call it chi. The Westerners call it Higher Mind/Higher Self.
Some experience it as angels/guardian angels.
In ordinary humans, the super-conscious mind is not accessible directly to the self conscious mind.
It is the goal of spiritual practices to CONTACT and INFLUENCE this part of man's make up.
It is this conscious inability to directly contact his higher mind that the Abrahamic religions called the "fall from grace".
Because at the super conscious level, reality takes an entirely different form. Some experience it as vibrations, colors, sounds, profound
peace, unspeakable love etc.

The self conscious mind cannot withstand the level of the superconscious mind. It will not just make any sense...both the rate and phase of manifestation will disintegrate or cause the self-conscious mind to function differently.
But the subconscious mind can directly access and work with energies/forces at the super level.
It does this naturally and automatically. It is the AGENCY whereby the PRINCIPLES/IDEAS at the causal level
are manifested as objective reality at self-conscious levels.

Connection with his higher mind is the goal of all genuine spiritual practices.
It is ABLE TO DO ALL THINGS EFFORTLESSLY. It IS the "MIND OF GOD". And we are all a part of IT.
Infact unification of all 3 part of man's mind is the ultimate goal.

Symbolically, the subconscious mind is FEMININE, selfconscious is MASCULINE while the superconscious mind is ANDROGYNOUS.
A great secret of most religions is that the gods are ACTUALLY ANDROGYNOUS! Yes both MALE AND FEMALE.
A reference from one of our African religions would do. Obatala and the other orishas each have different manifestations or "paths".
Each path of say Ogun...can be feminine or masculine. Or even both at the same time!
Like Esu is actually androgynous in almost all manifestations.
Any sufficiently versed Ifa or Orisha practioner would know about this.
Because when they contacted that part of the mind...they experienced it as a fusion of the lower and middle minds.
Infact the deities when revealed to initiates are always presented as goddesses and/or feminine.
Cos the power employed in ALL religions is accessed and manipulated through the agency of the subconscious mind
which has a feminine manifestation. Now thats a real occult statement.

How does the above apply to the discussion?
(1) It has been discovered by modern psychologists like Carl Jung that the subconscious part of man's mind is NOT LOCAL.
It is UNIVERSAL. That means the part of your mind that receives and interpretes the electrical signals your 5 senses receives is a SINGLE MIND shared by all living things! Now that may or may not be frightening!
There exists in you, a link with every other person who has ever lived or will ever live. Right now, you are just a point on the surface of that MIND!
The particular reality you are experiencing are just the electrical signals that hit your OWN point of that surface.
In simpler WORDS...you are not the ONE EXPERIENCING THE REALITY you think you are experiencing.
You are NOT THE DOER of the actions you(your selfconscious) think you are doing.
You are NOT THE SEER of the external phenomena you(your selfconscious) think you are seeing.
Someone...God...Universal Intelligence...is experiencing REALITY...through you!
Crazy huh? Methinks too. But that is what the FABRIC of our physical reality is.

(2) Your mind creates PHYSICAL REALITY
And the amazing thing is...you can actually modify this stream of electrical signals to CREATE whatever REALITY you feel like.
Its ALL IN YOUR MIND!
Knowledge of and ability to do this has been the preserve of the secret societies of man over the ages.
So...God or whatever you call IT/HIM...is the only REALITY out there or elsewhere.
There really are no mountains,rivers,suns or objective reality...as we know it..out there.
What ever you think you can see, touch, feel, smell or hear...are the PRODUCTS of your five senses.
These five senses process DIFFERENT ELECTRICAL SIGNALS.
These electrical signals were represented in symbolic form by the ancient esoteric societies of all peoples...as the FIVE ELEMENTS.
Fire...Sight...Eyes
Air....Feeling/Touch...Skin
Water...Taste...Tongue
Earth...Smell...Nose
Ether...Sound...Ears

In today's terms...these are MAGICAL POWERS. That is literal. Because by the time you study quantum physics and have a glimpse into
the AWESOME power of the mind to present what appears to be EMPTY SPACE to your mind as solid 3D objects...it is nothing
short of magic!
Because believe it or not...your entire PHYSICAL REALITY is made of these different
electrical signals. And your subconscious mind processes these signals concurrently and perfectly and creates an IMAGE OF WHATEVER
SIGNAL your five senses has received in YOUR MIND...and then you EXPERIENCE IT.
This REALITY is what the Hindus call MAYA...and indeed it is NOT REAL in any way.
It's an illusion of the MIND.

The great secrets(actually facts) of NATURE discovered by spiritual seekers are as follows:
Note that by "spiritual" I mean those who investigate NATURE and her laws...not sky daddy followers.

1. The existence of the THREE MINDS in man.

2. The discovery and classification of the 5 elements that make up physical reality. Even more important
is the ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE of what these 5 elements are.

3. The universal nature of subconsciouness and superconsciousness. This is a BIG ONE and methinks is the answer to the OP's quest.

4. The ability to manipulate emotions and belief to influence the subconscious mind. This in turn manipulates reality.This is "magic" proper.

6. The relationship between the ductless glands, hormones, nervous systems, plexuses in the body TO the THREE MINDS.

7.Symbology...the discovery that the subconscious mind "thinks" in terms of pictures and symbols. All the so-called "Illuminati" symbols you are seeing mean nothing to your self-conscious mind...but your subconscious mind can and does read it the way you are reading these words...without you being aware of it. And it will respond appropriately to the message, command or instruction....without you being aware of it.

8.The ability to manipulate the electro-magnetic properties of light and "matter" to contact and influence the super conscious mind.
Infact it could be said that everything out there is light...or technically light vibrating at different frequencies.
This is the reason for the usage of blood in rites and rituals by so many religions the world over.
The "life" or soul of man...which is the electricity that runs your physical and mental body is in the blood.
All religions discovered this. This blood is actually not liquid in the way we understand it.
It could be charged and discharged. It can take on the nature of any of the 5 elements. Modern study of biochemistry or bio-electricity is unravelling some of these interesting facts.

9. The great discovery of the MEMORY OF NATURE. That the subconscious mind is the STOREHOUSE of universal images.
If you could take out time to actually investigate how "see" a cup on the table, you would understand that what you are
"seeing" is an image stored in the UNIVERSAL SUBCONSCIOUS mind accessed through your connection to it.
This is the only reason why you and the people around you can both see the same cup, having the same color and shape
at the same time.
What your "eyes" see is just an electrical signal...of the type called "FIRE". This is passed through your optic nerves to a particular
part of your brain...which looks for the corresponding image stored in ITS MEMORY...or more accurately the particular SIZE of universal memory accessible to it. It loads this memory into your selfconscious mind...and then you see! Call it crazy...but that is the actual mechanism.
By now you should be amazed at the conclusion that if is there is no corresponding MEMORY to map the incoming electrical signals hitting your optic nerves...you do not see! Right now around you are REAL phenomena of things, entities that you cannot see...but some people can.
You are driven by sensation...which runs on the UNIVERSAL MEMORY OF NATURE.

Infact your subconscious mind processes many signals per second beyond the narrow band of the electromagnetic spectrum
that you are naturally attuned to. If the vibrational frequency of your mind were to be raised...your subconscious mind will have access to a greater part of the MEMORY OF NATURE...and then you will be able to see things and hear things that others would not be able to.
This is natural phenomenon...equivalent to your mind being able to process signals from a wider band of the electromagnetic spectrum.
"Things" would take on a different meaning at this stage.
Infact recent discoveries are showing that this phenomenon can be directly traced to the secretion of certain hormones into the blood stream by certain endocrine glands. This activates certain dormant areas of the brain/self-conscious mind.
How to trigger and maintain these secretions, the type of foods to take to trigger it, how to do it in a balanced manner....has been the secret of initiates over the ages.


When these things are better known, what we now term mysterious and spiritual...will be understood to be just natural phenomena.
Just like the way our ancestors 500 years ago will be astonished at seeing people in a TV set or using a phone to make calls.
If I had written the above publicly say like in the old days...the penalty would have been death...and I concur with good reason.
Cos men naturally go funny when entrusted with "power".
Cos all the above was the exclusive preserve of initiates and even so till today. But thank "God" for the free human spirit which cannot be shackled by ignorance or fear.

Ok that's it. Many apologies for the long epistle.
Feel free to correct and disagree.
I have ofcourse added my own seasoning and salt to stuff I read up over the years.
I'm also learning and do not know it all.

.

Hahahha
Never knew you are an Afrocentric warrior!
Went through your posts on other threads...interesting.
While I could challenge you directly on some of your Afrocentric ideas...I invite you to look at things from
a more realistic perspective.

ROSSIKE:

Absolute GARBAGE based on baseless racist insinuations and assumptions. Africa is older than China and India COMBINED, and has been home to countless civilizations of varying degrees of advancement, from at least 200,000 BC. If there is anywhere on earth that is amenable to ANY form of political organization that its people decide upon, it is Africa.

Hahahha
When you say "Africa"...do you mean Egypt or Ethiopia or Buganda/Ganda or Bini or Yoruba or Kwararafa or Songhai or Mali?
Or do you mean Ashanti or Igbo or Fulani?
Or maybe you mean Zulu or Zimbabwe? Do you mean sub-Saharan Africa or Northern Africa?
Africa is a mass of DIFFERENT and diverse ethnicities who before the Europeans came largely were ignorant of one another's existence.
Challenge to ya...give me a reference or oral history showing the Binis knew about the Zulus or that the Nupes knew about the Ethiopians.
Again, Africa is not one kingdom or empire...but different dark skinned peoples of diverse ethnicities and different migration patterns.
There are linkages and commonalities of language, customs, migratory origins...shared histories between the different peoples ofcourse.
So you cannot compare Africa to the Qing,Ming or Han empires! There was far more unification in those realms than in Africa.
In India, the unifying factor among the different kingdoms was the Dravidian origins, the Vedas, the Hindu cosmology among others.
The worship of Shiva, Vishnu, Krishna and Hindu traditions were consistent in mythologies and rites from Kerala to Tamil to the Northern kingdoms.
That scenario does not apply in Africa! The Ibibio man has no knowledge of the Orisha pantheons of the Yorubas.
The Kanem-Borno would find the chi of the Igbo man fabulous.
The Boro of the old Hausas is another African story to the Zulus of today.
That the Ethiopians had an established liturgical rites and organized orthodox religion will be news to a lot of Africans today.
What was common was ancestor worship under different traditions and rites.
So Africa was and is still not a unified people of common origins. True we are dark skinned peoples, but we inhabit
different cultural and political spaces.
To further elaborate, not all African peoples had monarchies. Not all African peoples had empires.
Not all African ethnic groups had nation states...there were actually few nation states in sub saharan Africa.
It was only after the Europeans had done their thing that Africans even had a common language to communicate with each other.
French and English are the lingua franca of international Africa.
I challenge you to go to Lome or Kinshasa and speak with the locals in your native tongue.
So, you have to clarify what you mean by "amenable to ANY form of political organization"...as the only concepts of political
organization known to all Africans are the Western gang of isms and democracies. They are not the product of African thought...and are
clearly not working out too well for Africans. Hence my insistence we adapt Western political ideologies for our own use.

ROSSIKE:

But those circumstances are the very impetus of change within those African territories. The call for African unification is precisely in response to the weaknesses of the old kingdoms. So it makes no point reminding us of the vulnerabilities of the old empires. That is what we are looking to recitify.

I think you are being rather over-optimistic. The Fulanis of today given a chance would rather align with Saudi Arabia and link up all the Emirates usurped by Fulanis to the Arabian Union...than work for a union with "unbelievers" who do not hold dear Muhammad and his sky daddy in esteem.
I think African Christians would rather not have Islamists take leading roles in a new African Union of Nations.
The religious divides will be open hedges for manipulation from the sky daddy vendors across the Atlantic.
Africans need to be conscious of and clearly understand the vulnerabilities of the old ways.
This was what caused a mere "trading company" to take West Africa with a handful of men and subjugate her feared kings and chiefs.

ROSSIKE:

Again, more wild categorisations based on Eurocentric prejudice. What is a 'chiefdom'? You mean those territories known commonly as kingdoms which might even be so large as to be termed empires? The great Benin empire was not a ''chiefdom''. It was an empire that was so brilliantly organized and stable that it constructed the world's largest earthworks!

That is BIG STATE. That is BIG BUREAUCRACY. The Benin example alone shows that Africans are capable of thinking and planning big.

Hahahaha...its either you are suffering from pangs of inferiority complex or you are trying hard to match up Africa to other civilizations.
True I'm quite familiar with the extent of the old Bini empire, her statehood and diplomats and all that.
You didn't even mention Kwararafa or the Hausa states.
However, the walls of Bini were no deterrent to European colonization. Neither was it a common heritage shared by Bini's neighbours.
It was a Bini thing. To equate that to a sign of "African advancement" is well...not quite scholarly in my opinion.
The Europeans met no wheels, written languages, no state courts with written scrolls or schools with scholars teaching and writing.
The only known African kingdoms/empires with knowledge of reading and writing were the Islamic sultanates and emirates.
Ofcourse I'm excluding Ethiopia and Egypt.
In my opinion...Africans have no point to prove. Africans have been enslaved by both the Arabs and the Whites.
Africans had no European slaves or Arab or Mid-Eastern slaves.
There was nothing for the Europeans to learn when they came to Africa or so it seemed...
They had to teach us their alphabeths, teach us pronounciation, transcribe their sky daddy scriptures into our native tongues, introduce
the concept of formal education to us, introduce the concept of navigation on the seas and oceans to us.
We learnt electricity and modern science from them.
That does not mean Africans were wallowing in darkness and had no native science.
We had native doctors, we were dyeing clothes, had metal works of brass, gold and other metals.
We had calvaries and titled office holders.
But in the whole, the world had left Africa behind. Its humbling...but that is what it is.
Even the Tokugawas had to put aside their samurai culture and shogunates to embrace the superior technology and education of the Westerners.
Ofcourse you are free to enlighten me on your own view.

ROSSIKE:

I doubt Africans will succumb to the lies of colonialists in this day and age. Colonialism will not happen in Africa ever again, rest assured of that.

Well if you are a student of history, you'll discover there are always ways of subterfuge and sabotage employed by colonialists.
The biggest of these fronts is religion...yes the sky daddy mumbo jumbo. While it liberated(I said it) African minds from senseless
superstitions and inhuman practices...it replaced them with an even deadening belief system. The Abrahamic sky daddy stories
are soul deadening and mind numbing subversions of the free human spirit.
The fact is religion is a universal thing and once any unique ethnic group looses touch of their native home grown religions...they are
subservient in spirit to where ever the substitute originated from. Today in Africa, Abraham and his sky daddy blessings are the hope and succor of millions of Africans.
Another is the mental colonization that has already been embedded in our subconscious. Africans of all ethnicities think today in Western terms.
Our thought processes are molded by the think thanks in Europe and America. Our leading men of commerce and industry are either Freemasons,
Shriners, products of Western scholarships in Western institutions teaching Western ideologies and principles.
We are already owned!
As it is...we have nothing original to us in modern terms apart from our so-called "customs and traditions"...which have since been discarded
for the relatively more advanced ways of the westerners.
Again you are free to enlighten me.

ROSSIKE:

Again, these things you mention are symptoms and effects of powerlessness which African unification is meant to address. You cannot use them to justify remaining powerless.

There lies the difference between Africans and say the Chinese! How do you explain Obasanjo spending $16 billion on phantom power generation in 8 years?
Compare that to how much was spent on the Three Gorges Dam.
African minds need a re-orientation. We appear to lack the ability to conceptualize political and economic strategy.
Africans have not demonstrated that they are the intellectual equals of Asians, Europeans or even Arabs.
Its all about bloated egos and general lack of self-consciousness.
We need men of knowledge and intellect to guide us into the next era.

ROSSIKE:

Again, you put the cart before the horse, using African weaknesses to justify their remaining weak. There was a time China wallowed in massive corruption, rampant crime and ethnic conflict, are you aware of that? It then took decisive action by a Mandarin clique to unify the land and establish Confucianist principles of thrift and sacrifice across the board via social engineering which resulted in the broadly united, ethically enlightened, philosophically homogenous Chinese population we have today. Nothing stops the same thing from happening in Africa.

So who are or will be the African mandarins? And which Emperor will appoint them to rule which districts?
Are you an African American? Cos it appears you think Africa is a single country inhabited by a people speaking one language
or mutually intelligible languages.
Will the Sultan of Sokoto and his emirates accept a workable idea pushed by say a Congolese clique...to develop Africa along purely African
ideologies. His allegiance is firstly to Saudi Arabia, second to Fulani hegemony over the Hausa city states they usurped, then to their own pockets.
You could draw more analogies from the above.
The reality on ground needs to be understood before laying a foundation for anything. That was my point.

Mapletraks:




@pazienza

It was the foremost father of the Ijaw Nation,
Chief Harold Dappa-Biriye from Bonny Island,
Ken Saro-Wiwa, and other non-Ibos in the
Old Eastern Region that told Gowan to create
States. Chief Awolowo had nothing to do
with the decision as you wrongly stated above.

In the Guardian of May 29, 1999, page 8 to page
9, Chief Harold Dappa-Biriye accused the Ibos
of dominating the minorities and of trying to
RIVAL the Yoruba who were ahead of them.

He also said the coup plotters of 1966 were sent
by their masters. He refered to the coup
plotters as School Boys who were sent to do
the bidding of the Ibo leadership of the 60s.

Dappa Biriye also said Ironsi's Decree 33 sent
fears of domination among the minorities of the
East and the North of Nigeria in that interview.

Chief Dappa Biriye took the CREDIT for the
creation of the states that Gen. Gowan created
on May 27, 1967!


Get a copy of that article if you can from
the Guardian Library or archives.

The state creation was standard divide and conquer strategy which Gowon as a military officer and administrator should
be quite familiar with.
Actually the decision to create states was a military one necessitated by the need to hole in Ojukwu and the
secessionists. Having said that, the goal was actually neutralizing Ojukwu's jurisdiction over the oil installations and hence
the oil revenues which he had mandated Shell to pay to Biafra and not Lagos.
Dappa Biriye cannot wholly take credit for that. While he might have had an input, I doubt if he was the originator.
The players involved were too international for him to influence to that level.
By that I mean that it was the British who gave Gowon the needed intelligence to call Ojukwu's bluff.
You can't fund a war on threats and agitations...you need cold hard cash. Cut that off and its over.
The British preferred to deal with Gowon than Ojukwu...and that was the undoing of Biafra.
It was the British who had the highest stakes in the Nigerian project and so...

scholes0:


This is beginning to bear strong synonymity with that classic case, where the wife always asks her husband: "what have you ever done for me?"
The husband cites one instance of when he has actually done something for her, and then, she dismisses that instance like it actually didnt happen, and then retorts: okay okay.. erm, apart from that one nko? which other things have you done?
The husband cites another instance, and she again dismisses it, and asks again, "okay okay, apart from the two previous times, which other time have you done anything for me? "
And the cycle continues like that ....

And having said that, I will cite you another case.
Do you know that various groups in Ebonyi state, especially the eastern areas, who are considered Igbo today, were riginally non-Igbo? I mean the Abakeleke-Obubra-Afikpo-Ugep axis.
Afikpo axis's original inhabitants were non-Igbo speaking groups such as the Egu and Ebiri, which are related to the modern day peoples of Northern cross river, such as the Yako and Bekwarra and other Benue-Congo peoples. These people were also victims of Igbo expansionism when wars were launched on them. Many fled, while others were assimilated.
Till today, there are still communal skirmishes between Eastern Ebonyi groups and those in Western Cross River, in places such as Abi LGA.

The above instances you cited...while being VALID...still look to me like mere skirmishes or inter-ethnic acculturation over time.
The Aro-Ibibio seems to have the closest semblance to a real war for territory.
"Expansionism" primarily means a group of people took up arms and invaded a foreign territory...took over by force of arms
and drove the indigenes out.
It does not really refer to a larger population overshadowing a smaller population...if you get the drift.

Lemme give you instances of "proper" inter ethnic wars.
(1)The Igalla-Jukun(circa 17??) and Igalla-Bini wars (circa 1515).
The Attah then engaged Igalla's overlords to secure independence for Igalla kingdom.
The names of the personalities involved are relatively known, the details of the conflicts are also known.

(2)The Dahomey-Oyo wars.
This has pretty much been documented...nothing much to say.

(3) The Kukuruku wars of Edo-Idah (circa 1850)
The Iyoba Idia assisted defeat of the Attah.You can look up the details.

(4) The Fulani-Oyo wars

The above instances are clear "armed conflicts" with opposing armies and all that...
There seems to be a lack of proper documentation of the dealings of Igbos with her surrounding neighbours.
If you have more instances kindly list them.

scholes0:


The history of Arochukwu, An Original Ibibio homeland. The Ibibios arrived in Arochukwu from the Benue valley and founded early states like Obong Okon Ita and Ibom. After many years, Igbo immigrants came along from further North/West, and pressed into the Ibibio occupied territory and founded several states, which led to wars between the Aro subgroup of the Ibos and their Ibibio hosts. A stalemate occured, after which the Aros sought more reinforcement from their igbo brethren further west, which eventually led to the capture of the area. The Ibibio natives were acculturated or expelled.
Till today, the Ibibio elements of Arochukwu and environs is still very visible, but the culture is now Igbo dominated.

Go and read up on the Aro-Ibibio wars.
Just this one example, has already refuted your entire claim that Igbos were living with their Eastern neighbors in one big blissful neighborhood devoid of conflict and subjugation of entire cultures. You can never cook up lies and fables for enlightened people.

Interesting.

scholes0:

Just this one example, has already refuted your entire claim that Igbos were living with their Eastern neighbors in one big blissful neighborhood devoid of conflict and subjugation of entire cultures. You can never cook up lies and fables for enlightened people.

No it has not...you are going to need more instances of inter-ethnic warfare for you to even begin to call it a hypothesis.
Aro-Ibibio wars going by your citations so far is just an isolated instance.
Care to list more instances of Igbo vs neighbours wars?
I'm actually interested in the history and will be obliged.

estwhile:




prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:


Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:

"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
of Jerusalem."

In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
(pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.

This was my response to a poster in another thread...
I'm addressing both xtians and islamists.

If I should invite you to my village for a feast and you were served a delicacy...its up to you to determine for yourself whether this delicacy is delicious or not.
Assuming your taste buds are functioning well and you're sufficiently classy enough to differentiate between food eaten by peasant and the rich...you should be able to find out for yourself whether the food is tasty or not.

Take your Koran and Islam as a dish served to invited guests. These are people who are not Arabs...have no knowledge of your adorable prophet and the being he serves. Is it not up to them to taste for themselves how sumptuous and delicious the food served is? Or how tasteless and revolting it is?
Tell me, after seeing the handwork of Islam from the Middle ages to the present...public beheadings in 21st century, completely covered up women(what hypocrisy!), forceful conversion at the pain of death to entire families and tribes, suicide killings and bombings of innocent people for gain of screwing 72 virgins in the here after, supreme sky daddy mullahs who make babies cry with their scary beards and looks...
What is attractive about Islam?
What would make me dedicate my life to your allah?
I'm failing to see any that appeals to my sense of beauty and harmony.

The reality a lot of Abrahamic sky daddy worshippers fail to recognize is that the world is bigger than the small enclaves where their chief sky daddy prophet/saviour emerged from.
There are no mentions of Aztecs or Incas, Eskimos or Apaches, Zulus or Somalis, Hausas or Edo, Ashanti or Wolof, Japanese or Chinese, Samoan or Tamil, Italian or Greek...in all these sky daddy scriptures.
Not one reference. It could be argued that your sky daddies probably never knew other continents existed!
A supposed creator god will forget about 99.9% of his creation and show himself to 0.1% who even have no knowledge of the other 99.9%.
Sorry but your sky daddy book is exclusive to the arabs.
It says nothing about the Eskimos for instance.
I'm sure if I formed a religion around the awesomeness and supremacy of my mother's food...you'd probably ask me if I knew how many mothers there are in the world?
Connect the dots.

AbuuUsaamah:



What do you say about a man who did not know science, whose contemporaries knew nothing about science, but who could give a detailed explanation (at least to some extent) about the happenings in the womb; a man in whose time there was no photos of the womb which could have been the source of his claims.

I'm not saying that Qur'an is a source to go back to when it comes to major scientific developments, all I'm saying is that there is. something divine about it; the Qur'an is an explanation of how an ignorant man (the Prophet) received messages from no one but a divine source.

If I should invite you to my village for a feast and you were served a delicacy...its up to you to determine for yourself whether this delicacy is delicious or not.
Assuming your taste buds are functioning well and you're sufficiently classy enough to differentiate between food eaten by peasant and the rich...you should be able to find out for yourself whether the food is tasty or not.

Take your Koran and Islam as a dish served to invited guests. These are people who are not Arabs...have no knowledge of your adorable prophet and the being he serves. Is it not up to them to taste for themselves how sumptuous and delicious the food served is? Or how tasteless and revolting it is?
Tell me, after seeing the handwork of Islam from the Middle ages to the present...public beheadings in 21st century, completely covered up women(what hypocrisy!), forceful conversion at the pain of death to entire families and tribes, suicide killings and bombings of innocent people for gain of screwing 72 virgins in the here after, supreme sky daddy mullahs who make babies cry with their scary beards and looks...
What is attractive about Islam?
What would make me dedicate my life to your allah?
I'm failing to see any that appeals to my sense of beauty and harmony.

The reality a lot of Abrahamic sky daddy worshippers fail to recognize is that the world is bigger than the small enclaves where their chief sky daddy prophet/saviour emerged from.
There are no mentions of Aztecs or Incas, Eskimos or Apaches, Zulus or Somalis, Hausas or Edo, Ashanti or Wolof, Japanese or Chinese, Samoan or Tamil, Italian or Greek...in all these sky daddy scriptures.
Not one reference. It could be argued that your sky daddies probably never knew other continents existed!
A supposed creator god will forget about 99.9% of his creation and show himself to 0.1% who even have no knowledge of the other 99.9%.
Sorry but your sky daddy book is exclusive to the arabs.
It says nothing about the Eskimos for instance.
I'm sure if I formed a religion around the awesomeness and supremacy of my mother's food...you'd probably ask me if I knew how many mothers there are in the world?
Connect the dots.
And if you believe that line you quoted talks about the womb and pregnancy...then your ignorance is self imposed.

ROSSIKE:

I just don't buy this argument. China and India have numerous ethnicities and religions. That didn't stop them from developing into powerful federations with a strong centre. In fact one of the manifesto objectives of the African Union is eventual political unification. A powerful center with a proper military, allied to a Pan-African social engineering program will quickly put an end to ethnic and religious - based politics.

Your assumption is that the Indian or Chinese situation applies to Africa.
China is the oldest civilization/empire known to recent history...with a long history of culture, imperial bureaucracy and
advanced political organization.
India is not just an old landmass of religion and culture but of equally advanced civilizations accomplished
in both science and international politics.
Africa (minus the Northern Berbers and Arabs) do not have a history of advanced political systems that can
handle the sort of arrangement you are proposing.
Yeah I know about the Songhai,Mali, Fulani, Benin and co empires...but those did not translate into broad
political awareness for Africans in general. Heck they all crumbled like cards in the face of European threats.
Strong states negotiate with stronger states to either become allies or vassals...not colonies.
Ethiopia is the only advanced political civilization in Africa...and their history of not being colonized bears that out.
The rest are glorified chiefdoms lording over an ignorant populace using fear and violence.
Infact your proposed union will be seen as a direct threat to Western hegemony.
Because if the union decides to adopt a single currency for both local and international trade,
the cancerous grip of IMF and the World Bank would be ineffective in continuing the looting of Africa.
You will just be inviting another round of colonization and this time it might be bloodier.

You need to have an good ideological foundation for running things at that level.
Such ideologies need to resonate with the consciousness of the people.
It must be home grown as much as possible...not this scenario where we have a vast majority of both
educated and uneducated who cant even define what a parliamentary system of government is.
Not this scenario where the bulk of the public turns to an imported sky daddy and his earthly tax collectors
for succor for problems they can solve themselves.
We here in Nigeria cant even refine our own crude. 50 years and counting of independence and Nigeria can not
still afford ANY city 24 hours electricity.
The entire economy runs on GENERATORS!

The minds of the majority of Africans are not enlightened enough to look beyond ethnicity, religion and work
on pure principles.
Until the nature of a pig is changed, it will allows wallow in the dirt. It cant help it.
Embedded selfishness, senseless greed, predilection to corruption and a hatred of knowledge will stand in the way
of any forward development.
I think I can now appreciate why societies such as the Freemasons exist.
You cannot entrust leadership and sensitive positions to uninformed people.
I think a good starting point will be to encourage something like a leadership institute or society where selected youths
of all ethnicities can be taught leadership, command and the philosophy of governance.

In closing, the Indians and Chinese can function at that level because the culture and consciousness is there.
The PRC leaders could have chosen to loot the massive billions of forex flowing into China, but they have been wise enough
to channel it to local development. The Chinese were able to collaborate with the West to attract foreign investment while
retaining her essential sovereignty and relative autonomy.
They have saved and sacrificed for generations unborn.
It takes discipline and a certain level of spiritual awareness to make such decisions and stand by them.
Even more important is the ability to formulate policies that will yield positive results for the long term.
Our so-called leaders lack vision and intelligence.
All these negatives need to be corrected and replaced with positives.
Anything else will be treating the effects and not the causes of disease.

AreaFada2:
@Shymex, the intricacy is really mind-blowing. I have got the kids to see them too.

@Yoruba religions in Benin, it's very simple.

With Oranmiyan/Oba Eweka 1 dynasty came many Ife gods to Benin and maybe thereafter too. And mostly like several skilled people too.

Even the priest in charge of royal ancestral shrine (Chief Oloton of Benin) came with Oranmiyan from Ife. The same family is still in charge till now.
Freeborn born citizens of Ife & few visitors were the only people allowed to enter the palace without body tattoo (iwu) which every Benin adult used to have as a mark of Benin identity. Until about the 19th century.

In any case, in my part of Edo State, unique deities my ancestors returned with from OWO are still there, of course most are now Christians. Even Owo dialect spoken there is just gradually dying out now. And there are at least 25 villages with Eastern Yoruba heritage like that I know of.

Like the Romans, Benin people adopted gods even from vassal states. Like my family were imperial ambassadors in Owo. Princely ambassadors adopted such deities across areas that fell under Benin control at some point. It was a good diplomatic move too. A sign of respect from supposed overlords. Like Romans adopted Greek and Egyptian gods.

I consider Benin not as a tribe, but as a culture. Being a Benin person is belonging a central cultural heritage and the Oba as the custodian of tradition, traditional religion and culture. But actually it's a kaleidoscope of many traditions and cultures, some indigenous, some adopted. Many non-Benin cultures have survived within Benin Kingdom, in a way they might not have done elsewhere. Diversity seemed to have been quite normal, especially as mercenaries and skilled people from elsewhere were welcome.


For example, the large number of Benin people in Akure, Owo, Ondo, Ikare, Ekiti areas and so on called Ado-Akure (Edo n'Ekue) colloquially, till about 1914, now all go by Yoruba name and identity. Whereas, in the last 200 hundred years, two Benin Traditional Prime Ministers (the Iyase), doubling as head of the army and second-in-command to the Oba, were chosen from among Ado-Akure people, Okoro-Otun being the best known.
Another Iyase came from Brass (a son of Amayayagbo/King of Brass) in recent memory. Being of Benin royal ancestral ties. I know their descendants, who are all proud Benin people today. Even the current Iyase is of Urhobo heritage.

The clamour for tribal supremacy and independence in Nigeria makes it difficult to talk about our historical interdependence.

Sorry for the epistle.

Interesting and enlightening.
Could you please create a thread to further discuss this.
Wondering why Bini's great history is almost lost to even Edos themselves.
These little details are going to be important in the days ahead...for posterity's sake.
Or if possible comment on a thread I've picked interest in...politics section.
Been trashing out history with friends from the South East who are all galled up by the claims of Ikas and Anioma
that they came from Benin.
My little research could find no evidence save the presence of Bini and Igalla settlers from Agbor to Onitsha...who were in the
minority.
Would love to know more about the relationship between Bini and the Igbos on both sides of the Niger.
Looking forward to your response. Tnx.

AbuuUsaamah:
That's why we should believe the Qur'an. All the stages were perfectly explained in it, despite the fact that Muhammad was not a scientist.

[b]“We have created man out of an extraction of clay (the origin of Fluid). Then we turn it into Fluid and settle it in a firm receptacle. We then turn Fluid into a clot (‘alaqah) (literally, something hanging, that is, from the womb) which we then transmute into a lump (mudghah). We then create bones which we clothe with flesh. Then, we transmute it into a new mode (of ensoulment)-blessed be then Allah, the best of creators.”(The Holy Quran, 23:14).

O MEN! If you are in doubt as to the [truth of] resurrection, [remember that,] verily, We have created [every one of] you out of dust, then out of a drop of sperm, then out of a germ-cell, then out of an embryonic lump complete [in itself] and yet incom­plete so that We might make [your origin] clear unto you. And whatever We will [to be born] We cause to rest in the [mothers’] wombs for a term set [by Us], and then We bring you forth as infants and [allow you to live] so that [someof] you might attain to maturity: for among you are such as are caused to die [in childhood], just as many a one of you is reduced in old age to a most abject state, ceasing to know anything of what he once knew so well. And [if, O man, thou art still in doubt as to resur­rection, consider this:] thou canst see the earth dry and lifeless - and [suddenly,] when We send down waters upon it,it stirs and swells and puts forth every kind of lovely plant![/b]

Circumstantial conjectures not related to the topic.
Your koran was not there to explain blood groups and genotypes.
Neither was it there to explain genes, DNA and hormones.
Men, scientists had to work in obscurity...labouring night and day to unravel the mysteries of human life...that you
and I so casually take for granted.
It is these discoveries of MEN...that will ensure you test for blood group compatibility with your spouse before you marry.
Your koran never gave you that knowledge.
Your koran also never discovered bacteria and microbes...it was man that discovered the reason why STDs are transmitted via
putting that long thin into that wide thing. And why you should wear a rubber when performing bedroom acrobatics.
Your sky daddy never unravelled atomic or nuclear energy.
Your sky daddy prophet and his followers never invented photography or computers
It was men like you who dared and brought to you the same pictures that demystified your sky daddy and its his holy book.
Learn to give credit where its due.

ReSexzskilz:
How can there be anything called God believed to be the creator of this vast universe? Surely, if there is anything to be tagged creator it can never be the god of the Bible or the Koran.

BTW look how far the stars are to the earth! How can anything matter? We are microbes on a grain of sand. Life is a st.pid, insignificant accident and when it is over we just dead meats. Dead meats!!!

No sweetheart.
Life matters...thats why you're here in the first place...to make a difference...to leave your footprints on the sands of time.
There is an unbroken lineage from ages unknown that produced your father and mother who gave birth to you.
There was a plan for that in the whole scheme of nature.
Look at the wonder of flower leaves, colorful birds chirping away, a beautiful sunset and the waves crashing on the shores.
Or even the beauty of a young fresh damsel like you
It's the product of intelligent design...whether its the design of some benevolent malevolent sky daddy is not clear to me.

Life is a wonder...and for a lot of us...a mystery.
Its the journey of exploring and unravelling that is called life.
There might be no end to the wonders of life and no limits to what man is capable of...both good and evil.
Who knows?

chukied:


If you're talking of "ignorance", am fully aware of all natural disasters and unfortunate happenings that people suffer daily. These occurrences have partial relation with the belief that God exists. There are people who haven't been around any of that, what would you say they think of God's existence? If the above mentioned situations are your measure of God being real or not then it's your choice.

So how do you explain all the natural disasters and unfortunate happenings that people suffer not just daily...but has been suffering from time immemorial?
Whether God exists or not for me is a chasing after the wind...pointless at the end of the day.
I don't really care as long as you don't equate your own brand of "God" as the only valid version.

chukied:


My truth is my truth and your truth is your truth, that my truth exists doesn't make your truth a lie nor mine vice versa!

If the sky daddy evangelists and preachers will be this straightforward and honest...then maybe the world would have been saved a lot
of heartache, inquisitions and other ills. True bro...its YOUR TRUTH and no one else's. Can't fault that.
Trouble arises when you tag folks who differ in opinion as "atheists", "pagans" and the like.
Or promise them an eternity in some purgatory or hell prepared by your loving sky daddy for those who do not embrace YOUR TRUTH.
That is what open-mindedness means...not expecting me to throw away reason for some sentimental feel good nonsense.
If it was meant as a joke then I could understand, but that nonsensical write-up is not for thinking men...in my opinion.
Neither does it address real life issues...hence my challenge to you.

In my opinion, if it does not address real issues that people like you and me face the world over...its better tagged as an attempt at comedy.
Maybe you could have clarified that you were just trying to lighten up the mood.