₦airaland Forum

Pi0neer:
@paniki,
Thanks a lot for your response, quite informative.
It's interesting to read that blacks killed during apartheid was a little more than 3,000. To those of us outside, the mainstream media make it sound like it was a lot more.

On the issue of blacks and standard of living, I am merely saying that blacks need to move from being consumers to becoming producers. Black nations need to be able to produce goods and services for its own consumption, as opposed to being at best distributors or consumers of goods produced for developed white nations. The Mzoli's Cafe for example, is it a franchise business? Black business all over the world hardly grows beyond the personalities who started them.

It's a matter of education and knowledge creation. Developed countries have people who live to just create knowledge and new concepts and then pass on those new concepts to interested people within their population through formal education. Those who get the knowledge and new concepts passed on to them will then be in a position were they KNOW how to produce things and others can use such skills to create new demand in society. 20 years ago the internet was just something known to those who live to just create knowledge and new concepts. They developed and set standards for this thing which everyone now uses. So I.T is white mans concept just like most other things, therefore whites will continue to be successful for as long as they continue to create new knowledge and concepts which set global standards.

So to answer your question - most black people at the moment cannot be producers as you want them to be because they don't KNOW how to produce.

African countries need to invest in the development of black EXPERTS in all fields because it is experts who run the world and set standards which get adopted by government and commerce and society. African countries should ensure that were capacity lacks to develop black experts in their own country they should be sent abroad for training and then be returned to pass on the knowledge to the general interested public. Most African countries fail to understand this important requirement which means that their development will always be determined by suggestions made by foreign experts who don't have real life experience with the country.

Pi0neer:
@Topic,
I don't think Mandela was a terrorist. Only people like Carlos the Jackal, or even Osama, who were essentially guns for hire, can be called terrorists.
Mandela stood against racial segregation in his own homeland. The white settlers in my opinion were the real terrorists, as they deployed more than 100 times more force against Mandela's people than Mandela could ever have mustered against them. Also killed so many blacks over the years. How many white people were killed by the ANC?

Whites built infrastructure for themselves and Mandela and his people went on a mission to destroy what whites built as a way to get their attention. Now you can consider different philosophies and even read Long Walk to Freedom to understand his justifications but it doesn't change the fact that there were laws and there are still laws which prohibit any person or organization from damaging private or state property.

And whites didn't kill that many black people, probably less than 3 000 in all the many decades of Apartheid. The TRC concluded that there were around 500 white on black killings from 1948 to 1994. The vast majority was black on black violence usually involving IFP militant.

As for the other side gists, I would agree with cap28.
White people still seek to enslave blacks everywhere, either directly or indirectly. Also, I think black people are asleep. Nowadays you see blacks just trying their best to prove to themselves that they can be just like whites in lifestyle. Unlike Asians who have their own distinct beliefs and goals, blacks have no aspirations than trying to be like the white man and enjoy the white man's luxuries. They're always chasing the white's material possessions. Black people have no societal values of their own anymore, thanks to slavery and colonisation.

Whites have set the STANDARDS of living worldwide and most people in this world aspire to reach such standards. It's true that black South Africans in urban areas have been westernised and have become detached from African roots but they don't care, as long as they live comfy lives it's fine with them. But you mustn't confuse urban South Africa with rural South Africa - two different worlds. http://www.encounter.co.za/what-to-do/culture/cultural-villages/

I think it's a bit off for morpheus to post pictures of black people having fun in predominantly white parties, or pictures of houses in white-owned neighbourhoods owned by blacks. What does that prove? When will blacks build and promote their own societies?

How about these pictures from Mzoli's Place in Gugs, Cape Town.

[img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSQna370-YLpjRJTglLGwa-hn0qhR8JW6YPE3EzZGozGvYwzcJEQ[/img] [img]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRno8dynmUxiPrg-W6U_WxIG-EmXVL8NvXrEPVgDq3Y518zyJHi[/img] [img]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWy5gYC29gL9R6pxO-grKlT04o3KeyrlPeCQq_Nnz02dAxN5byOg[/img] [img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFWrLpX6ZchxZknEATfd7RabGefhp7ziVs4rb7ff4zhmoiA3P9_Q[/img] [img]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNLJA2NSqpxAOYNrlbaBUwhtu11C6WgUPxIIGJJ9yQisOfKsTa[/img] [img]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfkVJD83zBIHvCdW1LlG0mZNnXyoKm0tunI-N-UHOF6aIyrDfb[/img]

Now see what a black man who was once in prison has now built

http://zaronline.co.za/bars-lounges/

Mind you, I think South Africa is the only nation of black people that stands a chance. I think they are more nationalistic than any other black people. Nigeria for example, is a country hated by every single citizen of that country, including the elites who only seek to rob the nation.

It goes back to national achievement which eliminates regional ethnic competition. South Africa is a ethnically divided country with different ethnic groups occupying different provinces and then the economic power of Gauteng makes sure that all provinces sing from the same hymnbook. Most of the Zulus live in their homeland KwaZulu-Natal province, the Xhosas live in the Eastern Cape Province, the Basotho live in Lesotho and Free State province, Batswana live in Botswana and the North-West province, Swatis live in Swaziland and Mpumalanga province which they share with close relatives the Ndebeles as well as Tsongas who also live in Mozambique, the Pedis live in Limpopo province which they share with the Vendas who have their own homeland close to the Zim boarder. Since all ethnic tribes of South Africa have their own homelands it should be obvious that whites didn't steal any land but created modern centers that were once vacant which people from all ethnic groups have now moved to like Gauteng province. So essentially Apartheid affected economic migrants who left their homelands and trekked to places developed by whites and then they received unwelcome reception.

^^^^^^^ nice

It doesn't look serious besides the one pic of the big crowed

Personality types

http://www.personalitypage.com/high-level.html

I did 5 tests on different websites and they all claim that I'm INTJ and I think they are right

Alright, as Thiza has correctly put it in the first quarter of his comment - we acknowledge and accept all that is said about South Africa because most of it is the truth. But instead of sitting back and playing victim by grumbling about the injustices of the past and the unfairness of the current, we are more concerned with working hard now to create a better future which will hopefully be free of inequalities and general plight.

Because we KNOW all that is wrong about South Africa, we therefore have millions of South Africans who are working to correct all that we see to be wrong in our country. These millions of people can be found in government, private sector, rural communities and society in general. All are doing their own bit to solve the problems which people in this forum like talking about and other problems which they don't know about.

Even though most corrective work is done by private sector, NGO's, community forum etc. government is the only one that keeps a broad database of it's achievements and each year they publish what they call South Africa Yearbook. It is basically a compilation of government highlights of what they achieved in a that year as well as general information about SA and government policies. Below is the South Africa Yearbook 2010/2011(Mar 2010 - Feb 2011). Read through it, you will see that our government, even though it's also corrupt, is not sitting back and encouraging people to play victim but is rather focused on black progress and the same is happening in other initiatives outside government.

1: Land and its people
2: History
3: Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries
4: Arts & Culture
5: Communications
6: Economy
7: Education
8: Energy
9: Environmental Affairs
10: Finance
11: Government System
12: Health
13: Human Settlements
14: International Relations and Cooperation
15: Justice and Correctional Services
16: Mineral Resources
17: Police, Defence and Intelligence
18: Rural Development and Land Reform
19: Science and Technology
20: Social Development
21: Sport and Recreation
22: Tourism
23: Transport
24: Water Affairs

http://www.gcis.gov.za/resource_centre/sa_info/yearbook/2010-11.htm

Zimbabwe's economy is made up almost entirely of South African companies owned by whites. Zimbabwe's minerals are mined by South African mining houses in partnership with the Zim government. A huge chunk of Zimbabwe's population fled Zim and now lives illegally in South Africa. Zimbabweans symbolically "own" the land but that land continues to be utilised by capitalistic South Africans who are pushing their agenda to neo-colonise Southern Africa. The South African government has not been hard on Zim as the west wants because the government knows that SA business has strong ties to Zim and will lose economically if they make a political blunder.

You just need to come to SA and stay for a week thereafter go to Namibia, Botswana, Lesotho, Swaziland, Zimbabwe and parts of Mozambique to see that SA business has integrated itself so deep into these economies that they might as well be part of South Africa.

So Zim is not as flowery as Rossikk fulsome take on it. He has been misled by the internet

Cap is going to like this thread. It will be a meeting place for proponents of victimhood

@Cap28 your views on South Africa would be more credible if you have actually been to SA and observed for yourself but using subjective third party opinions to substantiate your psychopathic views just makes you appear as a lazy armchair opinion generator. You lack real world experience that's why your malleable mind has been infected by extremist theories. You eyes and ears have not seen and heard much and so it is easy to make you believe things you obviously have not experienced. The problem with you is that you are trying to make us believe contrary things about what we have already seen and heard. So I agree with Morpheus, try to go out of your small flat and see things that way you will start to form opinions based on real experience instead on relying on the experience of others as well as being indoctrinated by extremist theorists.

cap28:
I will tell you what the definition of insanity is - thinking that you are free when you are enslaved.

You already admitted to me in a previous thread that you black south africans own nothing of value in your own country. 

You also admitted that ALL OF THE CORPORATIONS, BANKS AND INDUSTRIES REMAIN IN THE HANDS OF THE WHITES and yet you have the nerve to think you are free.

A mad man is one who walks around in chains whilst shouting from the rooftops that they are free.

Mandela sold your birthright to the white capitalists that is why you will never ever regain control over your own country.

Keep posting pictures of whites living off the wealth of your land while your people live in penury in overcrowded townships - fool.

Here's a challenge: please quote any comment I made on nairaland where i stated that ALL OF THE CORPORATIONS, BANKS AND INDUSTRIES REMAIN IN THE HANDS OF THE WHITES

You are now trying to make yourselves lose credibility by misrepresenting my views. You becoming a classic nutcase that always misinterpret peoples comments just to fit his delusional worldview

The problem with Corporal is that he became quickly defensive and foolishly believed that every black person on this forum is against whites. It would've been wise for him to lay low and observe how we continually castigate racist idiots like you. Now Corporal has in a way made us stoop to your lousy level of looking at everything from a racial point of view

Corporal just so you know, there aren't that many racists on this forum. You made a silly assumption

cap28:
Morpheus/Paniki what is the point in posting pictures of whites socialising with whites in predominantly white parts of south africa?  You are reinforcing what we already knew about south africa -that blacks and whites live separate and vastly unequal lives just like blacks in Jim Crow America did in the 1950s.

No matter how much you try to convince yourselves to the contrary white south africans do not want to share south africa with you, they are doing everything humanly possible to continue to live as far away from you as possible.

Take a look at the pictures you posted- how many of them show blacks enjoying the good life along with whites in  your so called fake rainbow nation?

You missed the point as usual. Morpheus' pics showcase racial integration in South Africa to show Corporal that them whites aint going nowhere but choosing to live alongside blacks and therefore SA will not collapse as Corporal is wishing. My pics show that the place where Zolzlolz lives is not interested in integrating hence the city is known to be racist that's why Zolzlolz is so against whites although with a little bit less passion than you. If she lived in Langa or khayelitsha or the other black areas she would not be so against whites. But Rondebosch which is the area around UCT is just full of whites and so she feels excluded

[size=16pt]Morpheus has posted nice pictures that reflect the true South Africa unlike what Zolzlolz is used to in Cape Town. All she sees is white, white, white and white I would also get sick of them.[/size]

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4082/4751791920_09ed9c8097_b.jpg

zolzlolz:
Oh thanks Dr Phil. What can you tell me about Norwood, Parkhurst and Newtown? *packs bags*

There's no racist vibe in Joburg, only isolated racist incidences and many of them are by black to white. It's not like Cape Town where you can feel racism without ever experience it directly. The unfortunate problem that you have is that you are one of the few privileged blacks of Cape Town who live amongst the whites which means that you are in a group in which you don't belong. The whites give you subtle hints that suggest that you are an intruder and you definitely feeling it hence you negative attitude towards the whites. Because of your socio economic status of being a privileged black person, you want to enjoy the good of the city like everyone else but what works against you is that the good of Cape Town is enjoyed by whites, Indians and some white wannabe coloureds. So when you want to go have a good time at one of the joints on Long street you have to tag along with whites because black people of Cape Town stay very far away from the CBD where all the fun happens. I once lived in Cape Town so I know what I'm talking about, that place is terrible for black people that's why marginalised black people like you and Simphiwe Dana were doing a twitter rant a few days ago.

Hahahaha, this was a joke – having a twitter argument about racism with the white leader of Western Cape province. Stop bothering the whites and let them run their province in peace. Lol
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2011/12/28/zille-dana-argue-on-twitter-over-racist-cape-town
http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/zille-jibe-sparks-new-twitter-war-1.1205691
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/29/south-africa-racism-row-twitter

cap28:
You are beyond clueless - why would the whites be scared when the black south african elite have been bought and paid to do the bidding of the powerful banking and mining interests in that country?

Zuma does as he is told by his white masters that is why he voted to impose a no fly zone over libya (along with lapdogs nigeria and gabon).

What a betrayal eh! even after the financial assistance that was rendered to the ANC by Qadaffi Zuma still went ahead to stab Qadaffi in the back - that shoudl tell you that he is nothing more than a puppet of the former apartheid power structure and the western corporate interests.

The black south africans are in the majority but they dont control the south african military - this is still very much under the control of the whites.  The whites can also call upon their european NATO brothers when the going gets tough so why would they be scared?

They even have nuclear capabilities thanks to the help they received from Israel in the 80s.

Stop displaying your ignorance on here.

lol. What is the definition of the word INSANITY?

^^^^^^^^^

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
Adolf Hitler

[img]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRN-En5VNKqfplMnsyY39jy5k7f7zypf6CNeId55nxSd8rsdxT6kFCaFY8A[/img]

What I see now is a case of three people who have one thing in common - they all feel marginalised. Cap28 lives in white mans land who has the political power to regulate everyone including the minority same with Corporal who lives in black mans land who also has the political power to implement regulations that make him whine and then there is Zolzlolz who lives in a city that is politically controlled by whites who obviously implement local city regulations to suit them. Because those who have political power traditionally choose to look after their own first the atmosphere you live in will therefore be more pro-majority and anti-minority. You wouldn't feel so victimised and ostracised and filled with contempt and animosity if you didn't live in a place where you were in the minority.

So here's a suggestion: Cap28 LEAVE the UK and go to a place that has people who look and speak like you, you would not have been able to know that white man is racist if you were not there in the first place. Corporal you say that you are a English white which means that you will be able to get British citizenship by decent links so apply asap and then LEAVE for the UK or Australia. Zolzlolz, Cape Town is not a place for black people therefore LEAVE that place and move to any other city in South Africa.

^^^^^^^^

I remember asking you not to use Cape Town as a barometer to judge race relations in South Africa. Cape Town has always been and will always be a racist city and the fact that the whites have provincial political power makes it worse because it's the only place in this country where they have some form of control. But the way they run that city and province is top-class but their good management also creates racism which means if they where in charge of they whole country it would be well managed but also racist. Oh, I think we've had that already. Just leave Cape Town and let the whites enjoy it by themselves, it's the first place they landed on 350 years ago and that place in the tip of Africa was vacant.

http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/cape-town-a-racist-city/

corporal:
http://www.homecomingrevolution.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7236

You can try all sorts of tricks to make yourself feel better but the fact will remain that you now live in a society that is systematically sidelining you and your pale people. People wonder why black South Africans have not reacted harshly and removed all you white people and making you pay at the same time. Well, the true answer is that we needed you people to remain stable and we opted for the strategy of removing your power piece by piece over many decades to come without you ever feeling its full impact, so your wish for South Africa to collapse will unlikely come true but the black man is gradually taking away your privileges.

In a way it's unfair that they are doing this because white women were also previously disadvantaged in terms of employment and general economic participation back then but it just shows how black man is moving forward with his systematic sidelining of them whites.
http://www.thenewage.co.za/38293-9-53-White_women_lose_out
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=161693

It used to be "No, keep what you have. You must just be BEE compliant if you want to do business with government" now it's "You must be BEE compliant no matter what or jail time if you don't comply"
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page295044?oid=557940&sn=2009+Detail

corporal:
Paniki, all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. If they wanted all people to live in harmony with equal opportunity then they would not have written Black Empowerment into the constitution.

It's unfortunate that you only realise this in 2012 when you, your parents, your grandparents and many of your unmentioned ancestors lived lives of disharmony and had unequal privileges and because you were born white and into the friendlier side of the disharmony and unequal opportunities you now see it proper to brag about things that you had nothing to do with. But now that you and your people have been placed on the unfriendlier side of the disharmony and unequal opportunities you are able to see firsthand how bad it is. It impedes progress, it encourages poverty and it creates anger. The good thing is that the white elite, of which there aren't that many, have inherited large parts of the economy and still manage to control it but the average middle-class white South African, of which the majority of you belong, is starting to feel the heat.

Many people think that all you white South Africans are rich because they see you guys eating cheap meals that look expensive at restaurants, they see you spending your last cent at a nice looking coffee shop, they see you spending half your pay to rent a black mans house in Sandton while the investment minded black man continues to live in his simple house in the township, they see you going on a credit card shopping spree at one of the malls in the north, they see you using the banks money to go on a weekend long holiday to the wild coast or maybe a safari to the Kruger Park. These are things that the average black South Africans doesn't do and so people assume that they can't afford but what they don't know is that whites like you Corporal are just trying hard to maintain a lifestyle that was easy in the old days of abundant privileges. So what we have today in SA is a small clique of stinking rich whites who control inherited wealth and then a large number of technically poor whites who use debt to maintain the lifestyle of yesteryear, those are the white who complain like you Corporal or am I wrong?

You want things to be like they have never been before. There has never been a time in South Africa were all people lived together in harmony and with equal opportunities. Even in the Apartheid years one of the first things the Afrikaners did when they came into power in 1948 was to establish their own form of BEE which some political commentators have referred to as "Afrikaner Economic Empowerment" that's because up until 1948 Afrikaners were only known for being poor white farmers and they were marginalized by your English white parents and grandparents and so when they took over they filled the whole government with Afrikaners, they used all state owned enterprises as breeding ground for Afrikaner business talent as well as job security for semi-educated Afrikaners, they made the elite Afrikaner Broederbond benefit from lucrative deals in almost every industry and they shielded Afrikaners from poverty. They did a great job at uplifting themselves considering that 80 years ago most of them were poor farmers and Boer trekkers who lived on only what they could cultivate. Now BEE is trying to do exactly what they did and you must give us space to also uplift ourselves. Thank you

It's obvious that economies with big populations will eventually take over from the artificial past powers and become the biggest.

cap28:
Yeah you keep on showing them love while their feet remain firmly clamped on your neck. 

Remember, apartheid in south africa is only over on paper but you are entitled to escape into your dream world if it makes you feel better.

You live in a society where the whites are in control and have a say in every aspect of your life, that's why you are overwhelmed by them and therefore naturally resistant and also repellant to them. Corporal's attitude is the same as yours, you are in the minority and you are both forced to be pretenders in the societies you live in. I live in a society that makes white people moan like this.

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corporal:
Yes people will say its ok for you you are white, no its not. In South Africa now i fall under a new apartheid government, I am a white male who is on the bottom of the list when it comes to applying for a job? Is that OK? Then why do you cry in your own country that its not fair that there are too many white actors in a show?
Is justice and equality only relevant when it suits you?
You think i digress? maybe so but the point is think before you open your mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any well thought of arguments will be answered, if you only use half a brain cell and start screaming and swearing i wont even be bothered to waste my time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They continue to live nice lives using inherited wealth but they realise that they are not in charge just like you realise that you are not in charge there in white mans land.

cap28:
paniki and morpheus i see you and whitey are getting on real fine 

i bet you're regretting all those times you spent bending over backwards to defend him eh 

sorry to break it to you guys, but whitey will never change his attitude towards blacks no matter how much you kow tow to him 

Show love for them while they hate you, it breaks them. But I agree with this

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morpheus24:
Crap28

Please don't mistake nor compare my "thought processes' with your  paranoid schizophrenia. Thats very insulting

[size=20pt]OUCH[/size]

morpheus24:
Crap28

Please don't mistake nor compare my "thought processes' with your paranoid schizophrenia. Thats very insulting

OUCH

corporal:
English speaking South African

Even worse. The English make up a huge proportion of pretenders in our society. Do you live in Cape Town?