₦airaland Forum

johnydon22:

This is the same thing Plaetton was saying or does it make more sense if you put it your own way?

You could say Inexplicable and i would put YET... Because as long as such phenomenon manifests in this confine of nature it can be measured if checked and it's actuality ascertained if studied.

If you take an Electric bulb back in time like 234BC people would term it a supernatural occurrence or if you fly a jet ..

The things we dub SUPERnatural can be deducted to be Natural manifestations that eludes our expectations of a Natural occurrence and so takes a SUPER tilt.. That all lies in our own inability to grasp the tenets of such NATURAL phenomenon.

Personally i do not believe this your assertion, Perhaps a demonstration? Then we can understand it's mechanisms.

It is also ok for me to point out that there is a theoretical point in space/time where gravitational singularity runs in a spinning warped motioned wrapping the fabrics of space and time around it thereby creating a tunnel-like point that you can lead to another part of Space/time, alternate universe or ahead of time... Its called a wromhole or Einstein rosen bridge.

This is a theoretical postulation alongside blackholes by the theory of relativity, Now blackholes have been observed to be actual natural manifestations.

Wormholes and Whites holds still remain theoretical and mathematical predictions until observed in fact.

Difference between science and superstition; I don't see any scientists claiming blackholes are spirity manifestations and not natural

[b][i]

johnydon22:
[b]First of all i will approach this from the perspective of my own native traditional religion and that is Igbo Traditional Religion..

First i will start by correcting the wrong impressions you have on these religions because obviously you seem to have swallowed what you were told about these religions.

-African traditional Religion (Igbo religion) is henotheistic and in the main context takes a Deistic or in another context can be given a pantheistic tilt in the sense that it asserts One Supreme Deity In the Igbo religion known as Chukwu.

This deity is unknown, nobody knows what it is, nobody can comprehend that Chukwu.

Nobody knows it's features, neither does it speak to anyone, neither does it have a priest, have a shrine or demands worship... It is just some form of universal unifying infinite power unknown to man which can be referred to as a representation of the universe in entirety.

The other deities which you mentioned here to be worshipped in this ATR are intermediaries (Small deities) The main concept is a lone single universal force..

Looking at these intermediaries it is not so hard to find that these deities are personifications of certain natural elements in relation to their effects on human life.

E.g in Igbo religion...

We have Igwekala (Amadioha) ... God of thunder
Ani- Goddess of land
Iyi -Goddess of the river
Fijioku- God of yam
Ekwensu - God of tricks and trade ..

And so goes on to numerous other natural elements and manifestations personified with anthropomorphical attributes.

Lastly in a personal scale the igbo religion asserts personal Gods peculiar to every individual called CHI... this Chi is incharge of everything that happens to the individual and in my own understanding CHI is an anthropomorphical personification of FATE.

Note

- African Traditional Religion is Henotheism (Asserts an unknown God) but recognize existence of other deities (gods)

-African traditional Religion do not necessarily comprise Voodoo and Juju mysticism.

- African Traditional Religion has many unfounded superstitions, myths and legends buttered into the very heart of these beliefs.

Mysticism is African traditional religion is a form of Natural Science whereby people manipulate nature using determined natural components..

In igbo it is called Odinani..

E.g- Rain Making ---->
You may stand here to argue that Rain making is a supernatural event but it is just manipulation of natural elements through other known natural elements to ensure a reaction of these elements to get a desired result.

Rain making involves burning of a particular type of dried leaf near the desired vicinity (This is a traditional means of cloud seeding, in this modern time application of Silver Iodide to a cloud will release the H₂ the cloud hoards)

So it appeals to simple logic that the smoke of these dried plants has the same effect on clouds just like silver iodide.

Someone arguing this is a phenomenon above natural manifestation is sadly mistaken.. What we call supernatural occurrence are just natural reactions we dont know how there are achieved, have no explanations for, contradicts our expectation or just don't understand yet

But in actuality phenomenas that manifest in this natural world suggest there are measurable and therefore suggests their actuality can be ascertained if looked into.

Blackholes breaks almost all the laws of physics we have, this does not make Blackholes supernatural phenomenas, No it shows that natural manifestations do not have one way of manifestation, it is diverse, it is numerous and it can be random.

An atom can be in two places at a time, this is not anything supernatural.. It is all but supernatural.. Quantum spookiness has shown us that that nature is far more crazier than we think.


So personally to me----> These claims of spooky mystic events imbedded in the very heart of some mystical manifestations are not independent of natural interactions, there are just natural phenomenons we have no idea how there were reached.


Of course i have my limits in the aspects of these claims i take serious; Like Rain making, Traditional Medication and so on..

But when it comes to some of the claims like Spirit Children, Ghosts.. These ones i make out to be childish superstition made out by fearful minds in the light of unexplained or unexpected events.

Was watching Discovery Channel just right now and Some primitive tribe that lives in the very heart of an untouched forest world still thinks Illnesses are as a result of Spirit attacks.

Such superstitions are what i reject in the face of these local beliefs.


For your case of Christian, Hindu and even Islam miracle claims, Prophecies and so forth is not far from mere hoax, reverse psychology and mere tricks.

I have watched Youtube videos of Buddhist monk levitating.. (If you find out the mechanism behind it, you will call yourself an idiot for first staring in awe at the wondrous sight.)

Muslims would dub simple cases of Pareidolia to be miracles of Allah, or Christians seeing Jesus and Mary in bread toasts.. (Pareidolia is a phenomenon whereby you see familiar figures on an unrelated medium...Like the Face of Mars )

Christian miracle claims are hilarious, Haven't we always noticed that these Miracles only works on cases that can still go anyway. . . Malaria got healed, stomach ache got healed, she vomited in Church etc.... Flimsy feeble cases of Placebo.

Why are we not seeing An Amputated limb grown back? (Or is that impossible)

Until they start showing us things like Amputated clean limbs grown back such claims as feeble miracles will always remain childish and laughable.

More so in the Case of the famous Faith Healer Benny Hinn who was flown on a helicopter to a specialist hospital when he fell ill but he is claiming to heal others.. (


-Prophecies ---> Aaaaaah very wonderful...
A prophecy can be anything, you can pick up any word of the Gilgamesh Epic now and relate to any event on earth now and Voila we have a fulfilled prophecy.

Or pick up any phrase from Nostradamus's compilation, check and you must see an event to relate it with and Booom!! we have a prophecy.

This is just what we are seeing the prophecy claims of both Christianity and Islam..

"I can as well tell you now that before this year runs out you will find what you seek" This word bears no weight on reality but you might find a job, find a girl and Booom!!! Johnydon22's prophecy was legit.

Or maybe i can tell you that A white ram will attack a black ram sometime in the future" France attacks ISIS ...Gbam.. my prophecy is fulfilled.. France is the white RAM and ISIS the black.

In all these claims i see nothing to suggest there are anymore than childish lay outs that can only slap the gullible.


Lastly to correct the final impression.

You seem to make Atheists out to be those that do not believe in supernatural Claims.. Voodoo, spirity mumbo jumbo and stuffs.

No there are many atheists who believe these stuffs, belief in spirity stuffs is very independent of Belief in God or Gods.

One can believe in Spirity Voodoo stuffs and yet don't believe in God (Still an atheist)

One can believe in God and even Christianity or islam or ATR and not believe in spirity stuffs.


Please atheists are not people that do not believe in Voodoo juju things, No we have many atheists who do.

Atheists simply means lack of belief in any God (Deity)

Though many atheists tend to rely sorely on scientific explanations and some go as far as discarding such claims.

I am of the opinion from the tricks i have seen that these are just events we do not know how there are achieved or how it happened or contradicts our expectations of a natural event.

But these to me are all manifestations of nature and anything that manifests in the confines of nature is measurable at least in a quantum scale.

Anyone who asserts something that manifests in a natural scale and then asserts it immeasurable or independent of natural confines is either lying, hallucinating or plain idiotic..

Nature has no one way of manifestation we should always bear that in mind.. [/b]

GooseBaba:
Bros, what you're doing is infusing abrahamics concept to African traditional concepts. Kindly go back and ask that medicine man his concept of "devil"..

You made mention of the medicinal prowess of Okpan Arhibo. Is it not part of nature how did it become "devilish"..we have now condem knowledge of our ancestors to the realm of darkness because of indoctrinated prejudice. It's like going into a science lab and invoking the devil on the tools... It makes no sense!

What the op is also failing to see, is that he/she is trying to fit African traditional concepts under the umbrella of abrahamics concept. One thing is for sure, African Gods stand on their own, they do not need to condemn others in order to be relevant. Christianity MUST condem. That's why they're easy target for ridicule.

macof:
Faith in African traditions

krattoss:
maybe I have to experience the real to differentiate from the fake..

but in the meantime, they re all explainable.

plaetton:
From the Bible, one can easily deduce that Yahweh Jehovah was just a tribal deity of the ancient tent dwelling Hebrews.
In fact , many parts of the bible contain ritual practices that resemble and mimic African traditional religious practices.
Religion would make sense of those that adhere to it admit certain obvious truths to themselves first.

Among such truths is the acknowledgement of Yahweh as the diminutive tribal god of the ancient Hebrews.
And that the ancient Hebrews did indeed worship other tribal gods at various times.

And that, as humanly expected, the ancient Hebrew scribes elevated their tribal deity, Yahweh, above all other tribal gods.

As for the supernatural, well, what exactly is considered supernatural.
Supernatural, to me, means knowledge or phenomena for which one's consciousness has not adequately understood or placed in proper context of what is already known.

My grandmother says that cell phones , computers and Skype are supernatural, and she is 100% right.

I also think that some mystical events or phenomena fall under the arena of quantum physics.

If we understand how particules of matter behave at the quantum level, then we can appreciate the spillover effects on our natural world from time to time.

It may shock you that I do believe that extraordinary things happen. I have seen and experienced a few.

But I only seen them as direct , indirect or accidental applications of quantum mechanical phenomena.

CoolUsername:
B-b-but I'm a genuine atheist .

Dudes like me can't come all the way from Abuja to the South West, unfortunately. So, if these guys are so confident in their abilities; then, they should film that their work in action.

Street magicians pull off tricks all the time, but they don't claim that they are real. Hypnotists make people do stuff but they never claim to have any power. But in Nigeria, when a dude does a little parlour trick everybody is completely sold on his 'powers'.

Critical thinking is something that's seriously lacking in this part of the world.

CoolUsername:
Thanks for the kind offer but I'll have to politely decline. I'm just saying that I want to see jazz on video in a way that can't be explained.

You don't have to see jazz on video, there are a lot of festivals that go down in the South West, you can attend one. I really wish i had the genuine atheists view of ATR

winner01:
They will share their views on witches, some will make sense, some will not.
Try harder but you cant make them cant shift focus away from christianity to the african traditional religion, islam and co. They dont have the human capacity to do that.
The do not control their obsession for christianity, the devil does.
The devil know the truth, you will be seeing them here for a long while.

onetrack:
It is my firm conviction that everything has a natural explanation. If someone says that they saw juju working, then I presume that they were tricked by some clever charlatan. I have never seen anything supernatural, and there are people in the west who have rewards waiting for someone who can really do juju/magic. But no one is ever able to claim the reward.

CoolUsername:
Jazz is very powerful in stories but when the camera crew comes along it is explained quite easily. I remember when National Geographic was still a quality network, they did a documentary on all those guys who use 'jazz' to stab themselves and feel no pain. The theory was that it was the power of the mind can sometimes translate to the body.

For example, if a person is having aches, dctors give them sugar pills and lie that they are painkillers and sure enough, it works. So to test it out the guy National Geographic guy who was doing the investigation convinced himself that he could do all these stuff, so he psyched himself up and stabbed himself through the cheek with no pain.

Nothing supernatural after all, just mind over matter.

krattoss:
lol.. u know what? in as much as I don't want to doubt that a leaf makes one to disappear.. now kindly proof to me that a leaf can make someone disappear.


have u seen such with ur bare eyes?

why isn't there a record or a documented video evidence of such?

u see, to the best of my knowledge, I think these guys play with our minds.

if leafs makes someone disappears, then I think I might have to get one and go rob some banks Tommorow.

krattoss:
op what would u call electromagnetic waves if not for proper education?

why don't u call call making and answering juju?
or internet? just because u have known the facts and realities behind them.

by the time u know the facts and fictions behind ur so called juju, then u will know that everything in this world has an explanation.. but some are yet to be explained.

Addietunes:
Seems you are not here for answers but to challenge the atheistic belief. People like you can never believe in facts, even if you were enlightened.

JigsawKillah:
I was opportuned to be in the front seat when a girl was being delivered from what the Igbos call 'Ogbanje'. During the rituals, a hole was dug, the medicine man said some incantations and threw an egg into the hole. It disappeared instantly.


Tell me what I saw was an illusion. . .

CoolUsername:
But where was their jazz when the whites attacked?

Addietunes:
To be sincere as an atheist, i dont know if their power is real or they are just tricks. But you might wanna answer these questions, thousands of years ago Yoruba's believed sango existed, they believed him so much that when it rains they believed he controls thunderstorms. At the same period, just kilometres away, igbos believed and feared amadioha because of the same power over thunderstorms. Moving out of Nigeria to Greece we hear about Zeus controlling thunderstorms. Now over the world at that time there were thousands of gods controlling thunderstorms and each tribe believed and feared them. Now the questions are that, were these people all correct or all wrong, or maybe the lack of scientific knowledge made them to reason alike. If the gods then were real are they still real? You do know those traditionalist you mentioned believed them. Remember the answer you give to these questions, because they are the answers you desire to know.

Austeenx:
Thread for those coogar has sent to the cleaners.

Bratking:
No be lie, my brother. My s5 goes from zero to fifty in less than 30 mins. Charges even faster on airplane mode.

BuddhaPalm:
This is actually the truth. As a man, you are being hunted.

But your hunter is a master of subterfuge and duplicity.

The height if her guile is making you think, in most cases, that you are the hunter.

DollyParton1:
Sorry to jump in. I heard same thing too. I have a friend who works and lives in Osogbo. She confirmed this.